Onan 5000 generator help

[Mike Hendrix at dot]

OK, this is some serious stuff.

My Onan 5000 gasoline generator in my 2000 Winnebago Adventurer will
not stay running.

Here is what I can do to help----as in a little history.

1. It has been starting and running fine........
well, in the last few days I have noticed some "surging" under light
loads.

2. It did run LOW on oil ...... I discovered this when it would not
stay started. Can you say I am not good about checking the oil in
that generator. My bad.

I filled it with oil.

3. The generator actually starts for a few seconds but just as
quickly shuts down.

4. I checked and I am getting gasoline at the end of the rubber gas
line. And yes, I have 3/4 tank of gasoline in the motorhome.

I am suspecting a SENSOR...... possibly that low oil sensor has gone
bad...... or at least it is shutting the generator down once it is
started.

I know the generator has that sensor......or at least I think it does.
I obviously don't know a damn thing for certain.

Anyway, anyone out there that wants to provide any information it will
sure be appreciated.

BTW, we are dry camping, .......... with a little EU2000 Honda, but
need this generator for things like the microwave oven.

Thanks in advance.
mike
--

Pensacola, FL
http://www.travellogs.us/

[Tom J]

I had something similar happen to me with my 2.5 Onan when changing
elevations where we were camping. On it, there is a place on the carburetor
to set the elevation. Your setting should be the lowest it will go????

Double check the oil level again and make sure you did not overfill. Foaming
oil will have the same affect as low oil.

Tom J

[richard]

outside of the sensor, could be dirty fuel line filter, or even the
diaphragm if it has one.

I once picked up a brand new truck to be delivered a few hundred miles
away. Didn't get 50 miles with it and it stopped running. Turned out to be
a bad fuel filter because somebody forgot to purge the tank before they
shipped it off the line. I'm just sayin there are other reasons why it will
not run outside of the obvious ones.

I'd find a honda dealer and take it to them.

[Hank]

On Feb 10, 5:02 pm, Mike Hendrix <mike (at) travellogs (dot) us>
wrote:

To check the sensor, just disconnect the wire and make sure it doesn't
touch any metal parts after disconnecting. The sensor just grounds out
the magneto if the oil is low. If it keeps running, then replace the
sensor.

Make sure your gas tank is at least 1/2 full. But it really don't
sound like a fuel problem to me.

Hank

[Mike Hendrix at dot]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:49:43 -0800 (PST), Hank <nineb...@aol.com>
wrote:

--------------------------
Hank, thanks.

I googled and found where the sensor was..... It is REALLY, REALLY
hard to get to but I did spot wire coming from that area. It was a
single wire (white)..... It went into the control box. So I removed
the cover of the (external control box) and found where the wire
plugged in and I unplugged it.

My thinking was the same as yours.

The same thing happened when I tried to crank it.

The damn thing will run but only a few seconds. Something is turning
it off. And I suspect a sensor.... But the oil sensor doesn't appear
to be the problem....... and I thought it would be.

Thanks anyway.

[JerryD(upstateNY)]

"richard" wrote in message > I'd find a honda dealer and take it to
them.<<<<<<<<<<


Words of wisdom from richard.
If you have trouble with your Onan generator...........take it to a Honda
dealer.

--
JerryD(upstateNY)

[George Anthony]

"Mike Hendrix" <mike (at) travellogs (dot) us> wrote in message
news:vrabj79p86nt8uk4u...@4ax.com...

If you have another piece of rubber hose, try replacing the existing one.
Sometimes pieces or rubber will flake off inside the line and act as sort of
a check valve.

[Lone Haranguer]

stan....@hotmail.com wrote:

>> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:02:20 -0600, Mike Hendrix<mike (at) travellogs (dot) us> wrote:
>> My Onan 5000 gasoline generator in my 2000 Winnebago Adventurer will
>> not stay running.
>>
>> Here is what I can do to help----as in a little history.
>>
>> 1. It has been starting and running fine........
>> well, in the last few days I have noticed some "surging" under light
>> loads.

> Hi Mike!
>
> Definitely a carburetor problem!!
>
> Going down the checklist:
>
> 1. The carb intake is set to summer position; Yes?
>
> 2. Altitude is set at zero; Yes?
>
> 3. Check the automatic choke, to make sure the choke is wide open after ten minutes of operation. Sometimes
> the rubber vacuum line that controls the "choke off" function, becomes compromised, and fails to hold the
> choke open.
>
> 4. Clogged air filter: Of course, if you have already taken care of the air filter, and cleaned it up:
>
> * * * *
>
> Beyond that:
>
> 5. You are pretty much down to the most probable scenario: If you don't run the gen all that much, then an
> accumulation of gummy crap on, and around the main jet/altitude needle, and in the bowl, are the probable
> culprits. :-( If you remove the bowl. which is probably full of crap, for the purpose of reinstallation, count
> the number of turns required to remove the main jet.
>
> If you are confronted with a whole bunch of gummy crap, a BTX (benzene/toluene/xylene) based spray brake
> cleaner solvent will probably be your best option.
>
> 6. Speed governor springs have been known to be compromised by rust etal over the years.
The generator usually has to run a short time before it switches
over and picks up the load. If you have some heavy load switched
on that you expect the generator to serve, the sudden load can
stall it. Also I believe the generator has to run long enough to
give some voltage feedback to the circuit board before it will
continue running. Will the generator keep running if you keep
squirting a little gas in the carb?

I'm no expert but I've had 5 different Onan generators over a 30
year period and always kept them running without seeking a mechanic.
LZ

[Tom J]

JerryD(upstateNY) wrote:
> "richard" wrote in message > I'd find a honda dealer and take it to
> them.<<<<<<<<<<
>
>
> Words of wisdom from richard.
> If you have trouble with your Onan generator...........take it to a
> Honda dealer.

The best place for me to take mine is the Cummins Oman South, Inc RV shop
just south of Atlanta. When we bought our Born Free the generator would run
but "loped" bad. Took it to the shop and waited for the repair. While
running the generator to warn it up, before and after the service, the
mechanic went over the rig checking all screws and hinges and adjusting as
needed AT NO EXTRA COST!! He changed the oil, put in a new oil filter and
cleaned the carburetor. It has run well since until I change elevations &
the altitude adjustment takes care of that. I really liked the service I got
there!! They do require appointments.

Tom J

[Hunter Hampton]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:46:57 -0600, Mike Hendrix <mike (at) travellogs
(dot) us> wrote:

>
>The same thing happened when I tried to crank it.
>
>The damn thing will run but only a few seconds. Something is turning
>it off.

Do you have too much of a load on it?

Hunter

[bill horne]

Mike Hendrix wrote:
>
> OK, this is some serious stuff.
>
> My Onan 5000 gasoline generator in my 2000 Winnebago Adventurer will
> not stay running.

I don't know squat about generators, but see if any of this applies:
http://www.rverscorner.com/onan.html

--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.

[Hank]

I'm not sure I agree with the link you posted. But I am not a
professional on Generators. I question the part where it says to check
if the wire to the oil sensor was knocked off. I have never seen a oil
sensor opertate in that manor, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
We need Neon John or Alan Robinson back.

Hank

[Squire]

On Feb 10, 7:35 pm, Lone Haranguer <linus...@gmail.com> wrote:

> LZ- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Mike,
Linus could be right.....If it's not making voltage, it won't
continue running....

Check for voltage when you try to start it..
I've seen this happen when there was dirty slip rings..

If you have voltage, then it's a carb. problem.

Squire

[Squire]

> Squire- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Sorry, I ment Stan....

Squire

[Paul Flansburg]

On Feb 10, 5:02 pm, Mike Hendrix <mike (at) travellogs (dot) us>
wrote:

Hi Mike,

I have a Generac and had the same/simular issue. Here's what I did.
The oil sensor first was giving me an issue. Didn't think twice about
it and replaced it - Napa part ~$10 big one's...No brainer. The genny
would start and run a little longer. Pulled off the air filters and
looked at the carb. Looked really gunked up, so I bought a couple of
cans of carb. cleaner and went to town. I also cleaned and lubed the
linkage to the carb.

Got the genny to run, but was running somewhat rough, but stayed
running longer. So I decided to spray the carb with some burst of
carb cleaner. Did this for about a 1/2 hour hitting the carb with
burst of cleaner and she started to run like a top. I comntinued to
let it run for about 2 - 3 hours adding a little bit of a load at a
time, then I removed loads until I shut it down. My genny runs great
now. It even starts on the first push of the stater button. It use to
take a couple of pushes of the button to get it to kick over.

One thing I noticed while spraying the carb was all of the crap that
had collected over time coming out. It started out as an almost deep
yellow then it went clear from the cleaner.

-paul

[Mike Hendrix at dot]

-----------------------------
Jerry, I saw who provided that advice and realized that elevator
stops before the 2nd floor.

[Mike Hendrix at dot]

--------------------------
Hunter, that is a thought but my eu2000i generator is buzzing away
with no problem.

thanks,

[Neon John]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:02:20 -0600, Mike Hendrix <mike (at) travellogs
(dot) us> wrote:

>
>OK, this is some serious stuff.
>
>My Onan 5000 gasoline generator in my 2000 Winnebago Adventurer will
>not stay running.

Mike,

Not terribly familiar with that generator but going on what I know and
remembering what Alan has said in the past, there are two other trips
that usually have a common cause. One trip is that the computer looks
for so many volts output while cranking. I think that it's 32 volts
but I'd not swear to it.

The other trip is if the voltage or frequency are out of bounds once
the generator is running.

The common cause is usually dirty field slip rings. A quick test is
to disconnect the field leads, hook you ohmmeter to them and then turn
the engine over by hand. If the reading varies much at all then the
rings need cleaning.

If the slip rings are accessible (access cover perhaps), the technique
I use for cleaning is to tie a piece of fine sandpaper (NOT emery
cloth which is conductive) to the end of a stick and let it rub
against the ring, one at a time, while the engine is running. The few
seconds that it runs before shutting down should be enough to clean
one ring.

Of course, before you do all this work, use your KAW to make sure the
voltage and frequency are within tolerances. The surging you
mentioned along with the low oil level makes me think that the
governor may have gotten sticky.

If the generator doesn't output any voltage during the few seconds
that it's running then I'd look to the slip rings.

BTW, you really ought to tell the group about the end of your ChiCom
generator. It is truly tragic....

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address
Feed by Giganews

[bill horne]

JerryD(upstateNY) wrote:
> "richard" wrote in message > I'd find a honda dealer and take it to
> them.<<<<<<<<<<
>
>
> Words of wisdom from richard.
> If you have trouble with your Onan generator...........take it to a
> Honda dealer.
>

I took my Poulan to a Stihl dealer. It was either that or pack a
suitcase and fire up the GPS. 'Course, in addition to the repair
charge, I had to endure unmerciful ridicule - them Stihlers are proud
of their product. But I consider myself lucky that the store people
aren't French-speaking.

[La...@fishing.net]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:02:20 -0600, Mike Hendrix <mike (at) travellogs (dot)
us> wrote:

>3. The generator actually starts for a few seconds but just as
>quickly shuts down.
>

>Thanks in advance.
>mike

Mike I went through all the posts and I noticed one thing missing that COULD
be the problem. On my system the coil gets voltage from a different source
while cranking. Once you allow the cranking to stop the voltage switches to
the normal supply. If it runs as long as you keep the start switch pushed
and dies when you release it that could be your problem.
Good luck.
--
Larry
In Citrus County Florida.

[Mike Hendrix at dot]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:14:32 -0500, bill horne <red...@rye.net>
wrote:

>Mike Hendrix wrote:
>>
>> OK, this is some serious stuff.
>>
>> My Onan 5000 gasoline generator in my 2000 Winnebago Adventurer will
>> not stay running.
>
>I don't know squat about generators, but see if any of this applies:
>http://www.rverscorner.com/onan.html

-----------------------
bill, thanks.

I had already read that link during a google search. However, I read
it again.

The part that really interested me was this paragraph:

"Also, check the oil level first - There is an oil pressure sensor
that shuts down the genset if the oil pressure drops. When the start
button is pressed it bypasses the oil pressure cut off circuit and the
engine will run only if the button is pressed in. Check the wire to
the oil pressure sensor - the sensor is located under the cover near
the oil filter. It may have been knocked off."

This bit of advice wants the wire to be CONNECTED. Like it makes a
ground through the oil pressure sensor switch. The other link wanted
to disconnect the oil sensor switch and see if it would fix the
problem. That would indicate that the oil sensor was providing a
ground........thus stopping the generator if things were not right.

Because of this...... I went out and disconnected the oil sensor.....
But it did not fix the problem.

Now....... from the link you just provided...... I think I am going to
go out and GROUND that wire and see if the generator will stay
running.

thanks,

[Squire]

On Feb 11, 3:46 pm, Mike Hendrix <mike (at) travellogs (dot) us>
wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:14:32 -0500, bill horne <redy...@rye.net>

This might help, Mike.

http://www.flightsystems.com/pdf/marquis-governor-troubleshooting-guide.pdf

Squire

[Mike Hendrix at dot]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:16:07 -0500, Neon John <n...@never.com> wrote:


Neon John said I should share the demise of my prized Chi Com
Generator with the group. So here goes.

That little ETQ 1200 Watt Generator had been with me for 4-years
providing power for a little over 4-months of dry camping each year.

Well, it met a tragic end this winter in Key West when a fellow (lady)
ran over it. No joke, the dim wit drove through my site and ran over
my little Chi Com generator....... my little prize. She didn't just
knick it she plum ran over it with the front tire then got it again
with her back tire. By the time she was finished she had shoved the
pathetic looking thing about 8" into the hard limestone.

She gave me $100 for the thing and I had a funeral. Brought tears to
my eyes.

A neighbor had a brand new eu2000i Honda that he sold to me for $890.

I loved that old Chi Com ETQ 1200 Watt Generator...... but it would
have taken a week to get one via UPS from Northern Tool. I did not
want to be without a small generator for that long.

Now everyone knows the story behind my Chi Com Generators funeral.

[Ron]

"Mike Hendrix" wrote in message
news:2lpdj71b7nubqer31...@4ax.com...

++++++++++++++++++++++++
Been a more expensive winter in Key West than you planned! That is over a
grand just to replace the Chi Com generator, buy propane and get a hair cut.
Hope you have a twenty left to get a McDonald's burger or you may go hungry!
;-)

Ron
++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Mike Hendrix at dot]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:56:36 -0500, stan....@hotmail.com wrote:

>>On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:02:20 -0600, Mike Hendrix <mike (at) travellogs (dot) us> wrote:
>
>>3. The generator actually starts for a few seconds but just as
>>quickly shuts down.
>

>OOPS! I responded to the surging problem, but somehow missed the shutdown problem. :-(
>
>Anyway . . . without resorting to reinventing the wheel, here are some Alan Robinson archives addressing the
>shutdown problem, dating from 2003 to 2007:
>
>Ok - it's a spec F. Brief description of the genset functions,
>then some troubleshooting info.
> When starting the genset, 12v from the control board is
>passed to the voltage regulator and then on through the brushes
>and slip rings to the rotating field windings. This 'field flash'
>produces an initial magnetic field in the rotor - as the rotor
>moves past the stationary output windings, this magnetic field
>produces approx 45v ac in the output windings while cranking, and
>approx 80v once the genset is up to speed. A slightly higher
>voltage is produced in the stationary 'quadrature' windings,
>which are connected to the voltage regulator. The voltage
>regulator uses power from the quadrature windings to increase the
>voltage (and thus current) being fed through the brushes to the
>rotating field, which increases the output voltage until the
>genset output is up to a (nominal) 128v ac. The voltage regulator
>then controls the field voltage as needed to hold the output
>voltage constant. Once the output voltage has risen above approx
>90-95 v, the output from the battery charge winding to the
>control board is high enough to energize relay K2, and the
>control board switches to 'run' mode (and, in the process,
>disconnects the start solenoid, removes field flash from the
>voltage regulator, and switches to 'generated' control voltage
>rather than 'battery' control voltage).
> Troubleshooting:
> Disconnect the genset output from the coach and measure the
>output voltage. If you see approx 120v, the problem is either the
>battery charge winding, the choke heater element shorted, or a
>bad control board or the wiring to it. (The choke heater element
>is fed unrectified ac from the battery charge winding). Remove
>the plastic cover from the choke and measure the ac voltage
>between the two terminals - should be approx 20v. If it is, the
>problem is the control board or wiring to it - if voltage is low
>or nonexistent, problem may be shorted heater element, wiring
>from charge winding, or bad charge winding.
> If genset output is 45-80v ac, problem may be bad regulator,
>bad output or quadrature windings, and/or poor connection to
>rotating field due to tarnish buildup on slip rings. Pull air
>cleaner and remove cover behind it in genset housing to access
>brush block. Measure resistance from one brush lead to the
>other - should be approx 25 ohms. If more than approx 35 ohms,
>remove brush block, clean slip rings and brush tips, and retest.
>If output voltage is still low, check voltage from quadrature
>winding to voltage regulator (module mounted in bottom left of
>control box) by back-probing pins 11 and 12 of the 12-pin
>regulator connector - voltage should be approx the same as
>measured at output. If it is, the voltage regulator is bad - if
>quadrature winding output is low or nonexistent, check
>connections/wiring - winding should measure approx 2 ohms
>resistance.
> If genset output is (almost) nonexistent ( less than 5v ac),
>most probable would be no field flash from control board to
>voltage regulator, bad connection from voltage regulator to
>brushes, tarnished slip rings, shorted or open rotor windings, or
>shorted output windings. Measure brush-brush resistance and
>correct if necessary. Set meter to dc volts, hook positive meter
>lead to right brush and negative to left brush, and check for
>field flash - should be approx 11v dc while cranking. If not
>present, hook negative meter lead to ground and back-probe voltge
>regulator connector pin 7 while cranking. If you have voltage
>here but not at brushes, either voltage regulator or wiring from
>regulator to brushes is bad. If you don't have voltage at pin 7,
>check for voltage at pin 5 of connector P1 on control board - if
>not present here, problem is on control board.
>
> This should at least get you started in the right direction.
>If you need more info once you've checked the above, let me know.
>Also, I can send you a scan of the schematic if you'll verify
>your email address is valid.
>
>Alan
>
>
>When you have the start button pressed, the genset is running on the 'start'
>circuit, and ignores the oil pressure sender and the stop circuit. To switch
>to run mode, the genset must have output and adequate oil pressure. If it
>switches to run mode, it -will- look at the stop circuit. So, the possible
>candidates are (1) genset isn't generating, (2) low oil level or bad sending
>unit, (3) bad remote start/stop switch or wiring.
> Make sure the oil is full, unplug the remote wiring harness from the
>genset, and try again - if it now stays running, plug the remote harness
>back in - if it stops immediately, you know where to look for the problem.
> If it still won't stay running, flip the breaker(s) on the genset off
>and try again - if it now stays running, you have a short somewhere in the
>wiring from the genset, or too much switched on in the rv for the genset to
>build up voltage. If it still won't stay running, flip the breaker(s) back
>on, open the junction box in the gen compartment where the genset output
>hooks up to the rv wiring and use a meter to measure the voltage - if you
>see less than approximately 85v here (while it's running with your finger on
>the button) then you have a generator problem and it isn't able to switch to
>run mode. If you see over 110v but it still won't stay running, you may have
>a problem with the control circuit board or its connections.
>
>More detailed troubleshooting information will require the model and spec of
>your genset - Onan has made a LOT of different gensets over the years, and
>they aren't all the same.
>
>Alan
>
>The more information you give, the easier it is for people to give useful
>answers. It would REALLY help to know the full model and spec of the Onan -
>to the best of my knowledge, they've NEVER made a 2.2kw rv unit - so what do
>you really have?
>
> Generally, the fuel pump should be pumping as soon as you hit the
>starter - but the last thing I'd suspect is a relay, and it's usually
>pretty easy to find out where the problem lies. Disconnect the power lead
>going to the pump and use a jumper to hook 12v to it. If you don't hear the
>pump running, it's a pump problem. If you hear the pump running and gas
>comes out, then it may be a relay/control board problem. If you hear the
>pump running but no gas comes out, it's either a pump problem or a gas
>supply problem (your tank IS at least 1/3 full, right?). Hook a hose to the
>pump inlet and put the other end in a gas can, then use the jumper to try
>the pump again - if it still doesn't pump gas, then it's a pump problem. If
>it now pumps gas, then the problem is the fuel line back to the tank, or the
>gas level in the tank.
>Note: if it's the pump, replace with the correct Onan pump - standard car
>pumps are 7+ psi, and will cause the carb (designed for 4.5psi max) to
>flood.
>
> Once you solve the gas problem and get it running - stopping as soon as
>you release the start button is a sign that the genset is not switching from
>'start' mode to 'run' mode. To do this, it MUST be generating, MUST have oil
>pressure, and MUST NOT be receiving a stop signal from the local or remote
>start/stop switch. The most common cause is the genset not generating,
>usually due to tarnish buildup on the slip rings due to lack of use. (Note -
>if this is the case, it may have caused the voltage regulator to fail..).
>First (because it's easiest), unplug the connector for the remote switch and
>try again - if it now stays running, the problem is the remote switch or the
>wiring to it. Next, check the genset output - if it's not generating, that
>is the reason it won't switch to run mode.
>
> That's about as much as I can give you without knowing -exactly- which
>genset it is. Let me know, and I'll be happy to give more detailed
>directions.
>
>Alan
>
>If you were measuring the 2.5 vdc at the positive coil terminal, with your
>other lead grounded, then there's only a few possibilities: bad relay
>contacts on the control board, poor connection from the control board to the
>wiring harness, poor connection at the connector in this lead (J7), poor
>connection at the coil terminal, or a problem with the wire from the board
>connector to J7 or from J7 to the coil.
>
>Unplug the remote switch and carefully remove the control panel front - the
>control board will be mounted on its back. The control board has two
>connectors - a 6-pin (P2) for the remote, and a 12-pin (P1) to the wiring
>harness. The lead that runs to the coil is pin 12 of P1, it will be labeled
>P1-12 / J7. Use your meter to measure voltage at this pin while cranking -
>if 2.5v at the pin on the board, bad board. If ok at the board pin but bad
>when you back-probe the harness side of the connector, bad connection - try
>cleaning. If ok on the harness side of the connector, check both sides of
>J7. If ok at coil side of J7, check at the coil. Basically, move from the
>board towards the coil until you lose your voltage - which will identify
>where the problem is.
>
>If it appears to be a board problem, try jumping 12v to the positive coil
>terminal just after you start cranking - if it fires up and runs, and
>continues to run when you remove the jumper, then it's most likely a bad K3
>relay on the board (K3 provides ignition voltage while cranking - once the
>genset fires and gets to speed, the electronic governor closes K2 relay to
>provide ignition voltage for 'run' mode). If it fires up and runs, but stops
>when you remove the jumper, then -may- be a problem with the board trace or
>diode CR3, which the output of both relays goes thru on its way to pin 12.
>
>Alan
>
>
-----------------------------------------

Stan, thanks.

Alan sure provided good info when he monitored RORT. Now I have you
to thank for saving all his good advice.

I will let every one know what the final outcome is.

[Mike Hendrix at dot]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:58:47 -0600, "Ron" <RonR...@aol.com> wrote:


>++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Been a more expensive winter in Key West than you planned! That is over a
>grand just to replace the Chi Com generator, buy propane and get a hair cut.
>Hope you have a twenty left to get a McDonald's burger or you may go hungry!
>;-)
>
>Ron
>++++++++++++++++++++++++

You have a point Ron.

It only took $790 dollars to replace that Chi Com since the driver
gave me $100 for it that I put toward the purchase of that Honda.

However, as you point out between the Honda, propane and hair cut
things are adding up. VBG

Life is still good here in Paradise.

mike
__

Pensacola, FL
http://www.travellogs.us/

[Mike Hendrix at dot]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:02:20 -0600, Mike Hendrix <mike (at) travellogs
(dot) us> wrote:

>

>OK, this is some serious stuff.
>
>My Onan 5000 gasoline generator in my 2000 Winnebago Adventurer will
>not stay running.
>

>Here is what I can do to help----as in a little history.
>
>1. It has been starting and running fine........
>well, in the last few days I have noticed some "surging" under light
>loads.
>
>2. It did run LOW on oil ...... I discovered this when it would not
>stay started. Can you say I am not good about checking the oil in
>that generator. My bad.
>
>I filled it with oil.
>

>3. The generator actually starts for a few seconds but just as
>quickly shuts down.
>

>4. I checked and I am getting gasoline at the end of the rubber gas
>line. And yes, I have 3/4 tank of gasoline in the motorhome.
>
>I am suspecting a SENSOR...... possibly that low oil sensor has gone
>bad...... or at least it is shutting the generator down once it is
>started.
>
>I know the generator has that sensor......or at least I think it does.
>I obviously don't know a damn thing for certain.
>
>Anyway, anyone out there that wants to provide any information it will
>sure be appreciated.
>
>BTW, we are dry camping, .......... with a little EU2000 Honda, but
>need this generator for things like the microwave oven.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>mike

-------------------------------------

OK, I got a lot of good help.

Thanks to all that responded.

The problem was a BAD oil sensor switch.

The generator is NOT "fixed" yet but I do know that the oil sensor
switch is BAD.

First, I want to tell you that there is a LOT of conflicting
information out there.

Here is what I found out:

It seems that oil sensors can operate in two ways.

1. Normal operation is electrically "OPEN". When the mechanism
senses low oil it will "GROUND" the electrical circuit.

2. Normal operation is electrically "GROUNDED". When the mechanism
senses low oil it will "OPEN" the electrical circuit.

Some troubleshooting places (individuals) suggested just removing the
wire from the sensor and see if it would run. I tried that and my
generator would not run. These folks were assuming that the sensor
normally operated in an OPEN position then grounded when the sensor
saw a low oil situation. That is NOT how my sensor worked.

Other individuals suggested that the sensor may actually be grounded
in the normal position then OPENED when a sensing low oil condition.

This morning I went out and disconnected connected the wire to the
sensor and ran it to a ground. In other words I grounded the wire
instead of connecting it to the sensor terminal.

Bingo the generator started and ran normally.

OK, so I now know what the problem is.

However, I do not have the switch and NAPA says they can not get one.
NAPA had a real "squirrel" behind the counter. I have always been
able to get ONAN parts at a NAPA parts store, but ....... this guy was
no help.

The nearest ONAN dealer/repair shop is located in Marathon Key
(90-miles from Key West).

Now mind you I have not actually been able to get far enough into my
generator to actually remove the existing oil sensor. Thus, I do not
have the switch in my hand with numbers on it. I am also reluctant to
dig in there and remove the switch while so far away from parts, so I
will just wait until I know I can get the part before I remove the bad
sensor.

Currently I have sent an email to an online parts place that says they
will provide me with the part number, price and shipping cost. Heck,
if I can get the part number and purchase the part online I might get
this thing fixed before leaving Key West in early March.

Now, I need some more advice from the more engine oriented "gear
heads".

Would you operate your generator without the oil sensor in the system?

I guess what I am asking is it possible for there to actually be an
"oil" problem and the oil sensor actually be GOOD?

Would you "gear heads" run your generator if you were me...... until
such time as I can get a replacement sensor?

Again, thanks for all the input.

[Mike Hendrix at dot]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 10:21:45 -0600, Mike Hendrix <mike (at) travellogs

---------------------------

The parts place just replied with a part number for that oil sensor:

Onan Part # 0309-0322 - SWITCH KI

Now I need to see if I can convert that part number to something that
NAPA or Auto Zone will have in stock or be able to get.

Anyone know how I can do this?

[Doug]

Why not order it online?

Doug

[Lone Haranguer]

Mike Hendrix wrote:
The parts place just replied with a part number for that oil
sensor: Onan Part # 0309-0322 - SWITCH KI Now I need to see if I
can convert that part number to something that NAPA or Auto Zone
will have in stock or be able to get. Anyone know how I can do
this? mike

http://www.norwall.com/brands/Onan.html?mm_campaign=7e844991c8e350501ed932b3ed43a137&keyword=onan%20generators|p|g&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=CPC&utm_term=onan%20generators|p|g&utm_content=8201990289&utm_campaign=609-Cummins-Onan&gclid=CJvdsLq6oK4CFQo0hwodVAii1g

Give them a shout.
LZ

[Mike Hendrix at dot]

-----------------------------------
Doug, that is a legitimate question and the answer would be.

I am in a "temporary" military campground on Key West. No mail is
delivered here...... NONE. A campground does not exist in this
location but for a few months during the winter.....possibly 5-months.

Fed X and UPS do make an attempt at delivery (Trumbo Point) but since
the site numbers are not posted on each site and there are as many as
700 RV's scattered in several open areas the Fed X and UPS guys often
can not locate the correct RV to deliver it to. When that happens the
package goes back to the OFFICE ....... located some miles away. From
there it is a royal PITA to get the package.

I hope that this explains a bit about why I would prefer to get it at
a parts store.

[Paul Flansburg]

On Feb 15, 11:21 am, Mike Hendrix <mike (at) travellogs (dot) us>

> Pensacola, FLhttp://www.travellogs.us/- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Mike,

If it's going to take forever to get the part online and shipped, then
I would call the the place in Marathon. If they have the part,
knowing that the key's is a great place to go for a drive, then I
would go to Marathon and pick it up. Do a little lunch and make a day
of it. You might want to ask them to ship it to you if they have one
in stock also. May take a few days or so, but worth asking.

If you do decide to run it without the new switch then I would make
sure there's enough oil and watch it carefully. Maybe after running
for an hour or so check the oil to make sure things are good. If you
never had any oil issues such as asmall leak, then I guess I would
take the chance with running it.

good Luck......

-paul

[bill horne]

If it's a level sensor and there is no puddle under the machine, I'd
monitor the level myownself, and run it. If it's a pressure sensor, I
probably wouldn't run it.

[Lone Haranguer]

There is no local post office that will accept General Delivery?
LZ

[Hank]

i agree with Bill. Find out if it is a pressure sensor. It sounds as
if it is.

Hank

[jerryosage]

Yes, on a temporary basis. I would, however, worry about doing it and
would check the oil level before and after each use. And if it was
running for long periods of time I would probably check on it every few
hours looking for a leak and checking the exhaust for signs of oil
burning.

>I guess what I am asking is it possible for there to actually be an
>"oil" problem and the oil sensor actually be GOOD?
>

If the Onan is a pressure lubed engine then low oil pressure would
trigger the sensor not the oil level. If the engine is splash lubed I
assume it is a 'float' type sensor and the oil level would have to drop
or the oil is somehow frothing and trigger the sensor. But frothing
should take a minute or so to happen. Now, with that said, --- I don't
really know, I'm just speculating.

>Would you "gear heads" run your generator if you were me...... until
>such time as I can get a replacement sensor?
>

Yes, with the qualifications I stated above. But I would be as diligent
and protective of it as an old hen is with just one chick.

>Again, thanks for all the input.
>
>mike
>--

You are welcome,
Jerry O.

[Neon John]

Yes, a good possibility.

>
>Would you "gear heads" run your generator if you were me...... until
>such time as I can get a replacement sensor?

It probably is the switch but.... Since you've already said that you
let it run low on oil and now the switch is saying "hey, no oil
pressure", I'd not risk my genset until I had a known good switch in
place.

Were it my generator, I'd order an oil filter along with the switch.
I'd cut the old filter open and wash it with solvent and see what kind
of metal falls out and how much. That will give you an indication of
whether the low oil level did any damage or not.

[Neon John]

On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 10:32:17 -0600, Mike Hendrix <mike (at) travellogs
(dot) us> wrote:

<while lotta snippin' goin' on>

>The parts place just replied with a part number for that oil sensor:
>
>Onan Part # 0309-0322 - SWITCH KI
>
>Now I need to see if I can convert that part number to something that
>NAPA or Auto Zone will have in stock or be able to get.
>
>Anyone know how I can do this?

Google is your friend. I plugged "Onan 0309-0322" into Google. This
was the first hit:

http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/onan-3090322-oil-switch-for-rv-gensets-etc-p-322.html

About $12. I'd buy a spare.

BTW, the NAPA site could not cross-reference that number.

[JerryD(upstateNY)]

"Neon John" wrote in message Google is your friend.

I plugged "Onan 0309-0322" into Google. This
was the first hit:

http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/onan-3090322-oil-switch-for-rv-gensets-etc-p-322.htmlDid you look at that low oil switch ?It looks like a brake light switch from the 1970's which was pressureactivated.I'd say the engine is pressure oiled.Call a dealer and ask if an oil pump is in the parts book for this engine.If you put in the new switch and it still shows low oil, you have majorproblems with the engine.Looking at the inside of the oil filter, like Neon John said, will show howmuch bearing material has been gouged out of the bearings.A new engine might be the way to go.If they rebuild the engine, it has to be cleaned REAL good or particles fromthe bearings will be left inside the engine.After the engine has been repaired and running, those particles will loosenup and get into the oil and ruin the engine, again.--JerryD(upstateNY)

[Albert]

Try this.
http://www.partsfortechs.com/asapcart/onan-3090322-oil-switch-for-rv-gensets-etc-p-322.html
Albert

[Lone Haranguer]

I bought a used outboard once, took it home, drained the gear
case and poked a cow magnet in it. Lots of metal particles so I
quickly stopped payment on the check and took the motor back.
LZ

[James]

You probably could use a NAPA Low pressure oil switch. I used one on my
inboard boat engine when I had to replace the fuel pump. I had to
switch to a new style electric pump which required a low pressure
shutdown. The Onan part looks like it has 1/8" pipe threads which is
pretty standard so maybe you can replace it with a generic version
switch. Jim

--

[Tom J]

stan....@hotmail.com wrote:

>> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:02:20 -0600, Mike Hendrix <mike (at)
>> travellogs (dot) us> wrote:
>
>> OK, this is some serious stuff.
>>
>> My Onan 5000 gasoline generator in my 2000 Winnebago Adventurer will
>> not stay running.
>

> I am currently enjoying the same kind of nonsense with my 1999
> Winnebago. It only has 200 hours on it. :-( The first time we used
> the generator on this trip, the generator ran for a half hour before
> kacking. The next day, it would only run for a few minutes.
>
> So . . . I removed the carb bowl, expecting it to be full of crap. I
> was surprised to find it clean as new. So then I sprayed a can full
> of carb cleaner into the intake and vacuum line. That seemed to fix
> the problem. I ran both A/Cs for the next two hours without a hiccup;
> and then the next day for an hour. Today, it's back to it's same old
> tricks. It won't run for more than 5 minutes before stumbling and
> stopping. :-( The carb probably needs to be removed, and given a good
> blow job to make it happy again. I have done about as much as I can
> do for the present time while on the road,
>
> We are currently hanging out in the Orlando area, and would like to
> find a competent Onan dealer. Would there be any useful purpose in
> taking the rig into Camping World, which is just down the road from
> us. Can anyone recommend a dealer in this area? We would like to get
> this matter remedied as quickly as possible.

You are on line, so Google Onan service!! If it was mine I'd take it
anywhere other than Camping World. There should be an Onan/Cummins service
center near you!

Tom J

[Max]

wrote in message news:93ktk7tfs5pqgq0vd...@4ax.com...

Regards
Stan

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

How far are you from this guy?
http://bryantrv.com/index.html

He's got a very good reputation for RV service. (386-734-8311)
ch...@bryantrv.com

You might give him a call or e-mail.

Max

[LonVanOstran]

stan....@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:02:20 -0600, Mike Hendrix<mike (at) travellogs (dot) us> wrote:
>
>> OK, this is some serious stuff.
>>
>> My Onan 5000 gasoline generator in my 2000 Winnebago Adventurer will
>> not stay running.
>
> I am currently enjoying the same kind of nonsense with my 1999 Winnebago. It only has 200 hours on it. :-( The
> first time we used the generator on this trip, the generator ran for a half hour before kacking. The next
> day, it would only run for a few minutes.
>
> So . . . I removed the carb bowl, expecting it to be full of crap. I was surprised to find it clean as new. So
> then I sprayed a can full of carb cleaner into the intake and vacuum line. That seemed to fix the problem. I
> ran both A/Cs for the next two hours without a hiccup; and then the next day for an hour. Today, it's back to
> it's same old tricks. It won't run for more than 5 minutes before stumbling and stopping. :-( The carb
> probably needs to be removed, and given a good blow job to make it happy again. I have done about as much as I
> can do for the present time while on the road,
>
> We are currently hanging out in the Orlando area, and would like to find a competent Onan dealer. Would there
> be any useful purpose in taking the rig into Camping World, which is just down the road from us. Can anyone
> recommend a dealer in this area? We would like to get this matter remedied as quickly as possible.
>
> Regards
> Stan
>

Look at it this way. Your generator should have 512 hours on it just
from the recommended exercise your manual calls for, so you've saved way
over 100 gallons of gasoline by not doing so. This service is probably
way past paid for in gas savings...........if not for the time and
stress involved.

Lon

[Paul Flansburg]

On Feb 29, 11:09 pm, "Max" <thesameol...@att.net> wrote:
> wrote in messagenews:93ktk7tfs5pqgq0vd...@4ax.com...

> How far are you from this guy?http://bryantrv.com/index.html

>
> He's got a very good reputation for RV service.  (386-734-8311)
> ch...@bryantrv.com
>
> You might give him a call or e-mail.
>
> Max

Stan - One of the things I did when I was having a similar problem was
to get the genny running and while it was running blast the carb with
cleaner to the point of the genny almost stalling. I did this several
times and it appeared to clean everything out. Again, the cleaner was
sprayed in while the genny was running with no load. I think I
sprayed about a full can of cleaner. I also made sure that the
linkage was cleaned. luabed, and moved freely.

-paul

[Tom J]

stan....@hotmail.com wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 21:46:45 -0500, "Tom J" <tomn...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>>> We are currently hanging out in the Orlando area, and would like to
>>> find a competent Onan dealer. Would there be any useful purpose in
>>> taking the rig into Camping World, which is just down the road from
>>> us. Can anyone recommend a dealer in this area? We would like to get
>>> this matter remedied as quickly as possible.
>>
>> You are on line, so Google Onan service!! If it was mine I'd take it
>> anywhere other than Camping World. There should be an Onan/Cummins
>> service center near you!
>>
>> Tom J
>

> Hi Tom,
>
> I suppose I asked a rather stupid question, :-)
>
> I found 'Cummins Power South', a full service dealer, on Google; and
> it's only six miles away. I'll try them tommorrow.

That is the company that services mine at their Atlanta facility. They
should be able to find the short or bad switch in the system!! They are not
the cheapest, but they do it right!!

Tom J

[Tom J]

stan....@hotmail.com wrote:

> We hit the road early this morning, and arrived at the Cummins dealer
> just after opening:
>
> Cummins Power South
> 4820 N. Orange Blossum Trail
> Orlando
>
> The People at Cumins were really great to deal with; and I am
> certainly grateful that I did not end up at Camping World! As luck
> would have it, when I got the Cummins, the generator worked just
> fine! :-(
> All they had to go on, was the history of the generator, and my
> description of the symptoms. So turned out to be a process of
> throwing new parts at it, starting with the most probable, until it
> started to behave:
>
> 1. New spark plugs . . . just because; (general tune up stuff)
>
> 2. New carburetor as first choice culprit due to low 200 hr useage of
> the gen over the past 13 years;
>
> 3. Air filter; fuel filter
>
> They started the gen to do the final tweaking, and it ran fine. Then
> it did the ever so familiar chug, chug, die routine. :-) Then it
> wouldn't restart no matter what; ever so familiar sounding symptom.
> :-) So . . . on with a new fuel pump, which I tend to believe was the
> real culprit from the very beginning. :-) For the past couple hours,
> the gen has been operating like new again.
>
> As a one time licenced mechanic 50 years ago (1963), who never worked
> a day as a mechanic after getting his licence; I am favorably
> impressed with the way Cummins addressed a rather perplexing malady;
> with a most appropriate intelligent choice-of-parts -vs- labour
> costs. While spending a whole day on repairs, the entire cost for
> everything only came to $650, which IMO is most reasonable for their
> level of expertise.

So far I've come out lower cost than that, BUT I never had anything but
erratic running (lopping). The mechanic that has serviced mine 2 times also
checked over all the other appliances etc while getting the generator warmed
up and tested under load. The 1st time he put new filters in the air
conditioner at no charge!! The 2nd time he replaced an overhead door hinge
that was broken. I had the replacement hinge, just hadn't got around to
replacing it!! They were not busy either time I was in for service.

Tom J

[Mike Hendrix at dot]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:02:20 -0600, Mike Hendrix <mike (at) travellogs
(dot) us> wrote:

>
>OK, this is some serious stuff.
>
>My Onan 5000 gasoline generator in my 2000 Winnebago Adventurer will
>not stay running.
>

>Here is what I can do to help----as in a little history.
>
>1. It has been starting and running fine........
>well, in the last few days I have noticed some "surging" under light
>loads.
>
>2. It did run LOW on oil ...... I discovered this when it would not
>stay started. Can you say I am not good about checking the oil in
>that generator. My bad.
>
>I filled it with oil.
>
>3. The generator actually starts for a few seconds but just as
>quickly shuts down.
>
>4. I checked and I am getting gasoline at the end of the rubber gas
>line. And yes, I have 3/4 tank of gasoline in the motorhome.
>
>I am suspecting a SENSOR...... possibly that low oil sensor has gone
>bad...... or at least it is shutting the generator down once it is
>started.
>
>I know the generator has that sensor......or at least I think it does.
>I obviously don't know a damn thing for certain.
>
>Anyway, anyone out there that wants to provide any information it will
>sure be appreciated.
>
>BTW, we are dry camping, .......... with a little EU2000 Honda, but
>need this generator for things like the microwave oven.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>mike

---------------------------------------------------------

OK, my on board Onan Emerald 5000 generator is up and running again.

For some of you that were interested in my problem there has been a
happy ending.

I learned a lot, but will probably forget most of it before I need
that information again..... that is sad. VBG

I read and listened to all of you that provided comments and advice.

I learned that onan parts are not readily available..... you can only
get them at onan dealers.

I learned that onan dealers are few and far between. And that when
you locate one they do not carry many parts. None of the Onan Dealers
we spoke with had the onan oil sensor in stock.

I could have ordered the onan oil sensor online for $8.99 or
thereabouts plus shipping but I was not located where that was a good
option and I knew that I would shortly be in a location where I could
have one shipped to me.

The onan dealer in Pensacola ordered one for me and it took three days
to arrive and cost $9 and change.

Per several individuals advice I changed the oil and filter.

The new oil sensor fixed the problem.

Lessons learned:

I will be checking the oil on that generator more often. Previously,
I probably only checked the oil every 6-mos to a year. I can't ever
remember adding oil between oil changes. That is why I got lax about
checking the oil level.

For those of you that like to troubleshoot engines here is something
else I learned (or I think I learned it).

There are two types of oil sensors and they look identical but operate
differently:

Both of them have one electrical spade connection.

Type 1....... It is normally open but when oil pressure is present
closes the circuit to provide a ground. That is the type I had.

Type 2......is normally closed .......thus grounded but when oil
pressure is present it opens thus removing the ground from the
circuit.

A different test is necessary for each one so you have to know which
one your application uses.

One troubleshooting guide for my unit said to check it just remove the
wire from the spade connector thus taking the oil pressure sensor out
of the system.......then try and start the generator.

I did that but my generator still didn't stay running.

I found another troubleshooting guide that said to remove the spade
and ground it.

When I did that my generator would operate normally. I just didn't
know if I actually had oil pressure. Thus I did not operate my
generator but for a minute or so.

I do not know if some onan generators use one type while other onan
generators use the other type. I just do not know. What I do know is
that on several troubleshooting forums they advised to check the
sensor by removing the sensor from the system...... that is only a
good check for the type 2 oil sensor (the one that is normally closed
but opens when oil pressure is present).

And as I now know that is not type oil sensor used in my Onan Emerald
5000 generator.

Thanks for all the help and advice.

[Lone Haranguer]

Couldn't you contact Onan, give them the serial number and find out?

When I added an exhaust system that vented above the roof line, I
contacted Onan to see if that was
a problem. An engineer promptly replied and said my idea was
fine and would cause no problem. I used it for
3 years and removed it when I traded it in. They were glad to help.
LZ

[Hank]

Thanks for the feedback. I also learned.

Hank

[Paul Flansburg]

> Pensacola, FLhttp://www.travellogs.us/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Glad to hear you got it fixed. Not sure how long you plan to own your
rig, but you may want to cary a spare. I have a 2000 NRV SeaView and
have replaced the sensor twice over 12 - 13yrs that I've had this MH.
I learned this when the power went out in a campground that we were at
last year. Fired up the genny and she ran for about 30sec's and
stopped. Looked at the sensor and it was dripping some oil. Couldn't
fix it. Decided to carry a spare. If and when I decide to sell the
MH, I'll include the sensor.

-paul

[nothermark]

On Thu, 8 Mar 2012 14:37:21 -0800 (PST), Hank <nineb...@aol.com>
wrote:

sounds like if I was more ambitious I would go out and see what my oil
sw does now while it is working. ;-)