Varying voltage in ONAN generator
Jacques Marcotte
workout. I usually do this every month or so. But this time, I had my
voltmeter along, and I took some measurements.
The gen is a 6.5KW. I loaded it with two 1500W heaters. (There is still
snow on the ground around here).
I took the measurements after about one hour running time under load.
When both heaters were on, the voltage, measured at one outlet inside the MH
read about 115V, with a variation of 0.5V either way.
If I reduced the load by half, by cutting off one heater, the voltage jumped
to about 125V, and 3 minutes later was still slowly coming down, but was
aroung 120V.
If I removed both heaters, (a radio stayed on, so maybe about 200W), the
voltage jumped to about 145V, and 5 minutes later had come down to about
129V, but was still slowly coming down. I did not measure how long it took
to get down to "normal", whatever that is.
Is this behaviour normal? I suspect not. If not, any suggestions of what
to look for?
Thanks for any inputs.
Wade
"Jacques Marcotte" <jacq...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:998mhk$8h0p$1...@ID-76207.news.dfncis.de...
Out of curiosity I tested my Onan and with load it shows steady 119 to 121
remove load and it spikes to just under 130 for a split second add load and
it drops to 110 momentarily, recovery is almost instant.
Wade
Lon VanOstran
Mine doesn't act that way. With load, or without, it stays right around
120V, with very little wavering. We have the good governor so we know
what it is all the time.
Lon
Mark
Did you have the carb setting set to "winter"? Or "summer"... in 30ish degree
temps, I've found that after starting in "winter", I need to flip over to
"summer".... Could be the choke's messed up on mine... Once ours is stable
(about 15 minutes) it stays stable. Right at 115 V. Varies slightly when a
load is applied or removed.
Mark
GBinNC
wrote:
>Jacques Marcotte wrote:
>> If I reduced the load by half, by cutting off one heater, the voltage jumped
>> to about 125V, and 3 minutes later was still slowly coming down, but was
>> aroung 120V.
>> <...>
>> Is this behaviour normal? I suspect not. If not, any suggestions of what
>> to look for?
>Mine doesn't act that way. With load, or without, it stays right around
>120V, with very little wavering. We have the good governor so we know
>what it is all the time.
>Lon
Ditto here. My Onan 2.8 Kw puts out a fairly steady 118-120 (at 59-60
Hz) under half to three-fourths load. When I first turn on the a/c or
other heavy load it drops a little for a couple of seconds until it
gets past the startup, but then it levels back out.
(Hey, that Good Governor sure is one handy gadget, huh?)
GB in NC
Vince Wirth
wrote:
>>> If I removed both heaters, (a radio stayed on, so maybe about 200W), the
>>> voltage jumped to about 145V, and 5 minutes later had come down to about
>>> 129V, but was still slowly coming down. I did not measure how long it took
>>> to get down to "normal", whatever that is.
>
>No problem there either.
Stan,
145 volts is a problem. It sounds like the voltage regulator is not
"closed loop" and the hysteresis is greatly extended. Voltages that
high can do damage to stuff.
Vince Wirth
http://home.earthlink.net/~vincewirth
Jacques Marcotte
Based on the comments received, I conclude that while I may not have a
disastrous situation, it should be looked at. Many posters said that their
systems do not behave like mine. Also, I admit, the 145V does bother me, as
does the long time it seems to take to get back down to more "normal"
voltages. By the way, the Generator is in a 1987 MH, and has about 250
hours clocked it. I don't know its history, as I bought the MH about two
years ago.
Again thanks. I will have it looked at.
Jacques
Ron Nash
> Today, I ran my generator for about two hours, just to give it a good
> workout. I usually do this every month or so. But this time, I had my
> voltmeter along, and I took some measurements.
Good ideal. I use Mobil Delvac 15W-40 oil (Onan recommends 15W-40 oil)
> The gen is a 6.5KW. I loaded it with two 1500W heaters. (There is still
> snow on the ground around here).
...
> If I removed both heaters, (a radio stayed on, so maybe about 200W), the
> voltage jumped to about 145V, and 5 minutes later had come down to about
> 129V, but was still slowly coming down. I did not measure how long it took
> to get down to "normal", whatever that is.
The voltage should not go that high. My book says 132V max voltage.
> Is this behaviour normal? I suspect not. If not, any suggestions of what
> to look for?
I have an Onan 4.0KW BGE unit (1985). I found if the throttle stop
screw is adjusted too far (fast), the generator will go over 132V when
a heavy load is removed. Adjusting it too far out causes mine to
"hunt" for a few seconds when a load is removed.
_ ___,;;;/ | Ron Nash (na...@sdsu.edu) San Diego State University
,;( )__, )~\| |
;; // '--; | Gin-N-Tonic endurance horse
' ;\ | | Luv on Fire trusty trail horse
Chris Bryant
> Many posters said that their
>systems do not behave like mine. Also, I admit, the 145V does bother me, as
>does the long time it seems to take to get back down to more "normal"
>voltages. By the way, the Generator is in a 1987 MH,
I really wish Alan Robinson was here- he would no for sure,
but my '87 Onan 4.0 doesn't really have a voltage regulator- the
voltage is MOL dependant on the engine speed, though there is a
transformer tap to adjust the voltage (i.e., you adjust for frequency
first, then if needed, adjust the voltage with the transformer taps).
New Onan models do use a voltage regulator that is "capped",
so that the voltage will not exceed a certain value.
After using mine for around 5 years (daily, sometimes 24 hours
a day), I checked the output voltage.. it was right at 170 volts (!).
I don't know how long it had been there, but no apparent damage was
done (well, my 12 year old Sony TV finally died, but given the amount
of travel it had seen, it was about due).
FWIW...
--
Chris Bryant
Bryant RV Services- DeLand, Florida mailto:brya...@totcon.com
On RVing-RV TV about RVs, by RVers: http://www.onrving.com
On RVing Forums- http://www.onrving.com/forums/default.asp
Lon VanOstran
> (Hey, that Good Governor sure is one handy gadget, huh?)
Yep! Might be one of the best moves we have made. It is a real comfort
after some of the horror stories we have seen here. I really like
knowing the wiring is correct, and that the voltage is good.
Lon
Lon VanOstran
> voltages. By the way, the Generator is in a 1987 MH, and has about 250
> hours clocked it. I don't know its history, as I bought the MH about two
> years ago.
250 hours on an 87. No wonder it doesn't run well. Buy some gumout carb
cleaner (3 or 4 bottles), put it in your gas tank, drive a mile or so,
and then run the generator for an hour or so. It likely is just gummed
up with varnish and needs some work. I run ours for at least an hour
each month when we aren't using the MH.
Lon
E. Myers
132V". This is on a 6.5K in a '92 MH.
Ed
| >> If I removed both heaters, (a radio stayed on, so maybe
about 200W), the
| >> voltage jumped to about 145V, and 5 minutes later had
come down to about
| >> 129V, but was still slowly coming down. I did not
measure how long it took
| >> to get down to "normal", whatever that is.
| >
| >The voltage should not go that high. My book says 132V
max voltage.
|
| Dunno what book you are reading; or if you actually read
it
| thoroughly; but the Onan Service Manual says 145V is quite
within
| specs.
Jon Porter
news:3ac268b5...@news.netrover.com...
> >On 22 Mar 2001 17:32:48 GMT, Ron Nash <na...@rohan.sdsu.edu> wrote:
> >I use Mobil Delvac 15W-40 oil (Onan recommends 15W-40 oil)
>
> carried an SAE 5W-40 viscosity rating---not 15W40.
>
> Apart from those who gravitate toward snake-oil, oil-brand and type is
> really unimportant. If the producers of synthetic oils could produce
> even the slightest evidence, that their product is in any way better,
> you can be assured that their multi-billion dollar advertising budget
> would proclaim its merits. Instead, they seem to be content in
> depending upon gullibility for their sales. It worked for ProLong!
>
> As long as oil meets API standards, no objective difference has ever
> been demonstrated to show engine-wear is any reduced by paying 8
> dollars or 80 cents for a quart of oil. Anything over 80 cents a quart
> is merely a snake-oil tax on ignorance.
>
> The statement that "Onan recommends 15W-40 oil" is only a partial, and
> perhaps misleading truth. Onan also does not recommend synthetic oil.
> I use 5W30---the cheapest Wal-Mart oil I can find; and Onan recommends
> that too. Read the manual and find out what Onan recommends for your
> particular operating environment.
>
Onan is pretty clear on their oil recommendations -
http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/products/powergeneration/generators/oil.c
fm
The manual for your particular model genny will tell you what grade oil to
use, and the Delvac is just fine for it, since it meets the API
classifications called for by Onan. Onan does recommend 15W-40 for year
'round use, and SAE 30 is preferable for hot weather use to help control oil
consumption. Any oil that meets the API classifications is perfectly OK to
use, although Onan does tout their own oil as "specially formulated" for
their equipment. While there isn't any recommendation for synthetics, Onan
doesn't recommend against them either. Synthetics might be preferable in
real hot weather because they are better at handling heat compared to
conventional oils. So... I would go along with using any oil that's on sale
that'll meet with the temperature range you'll be in.
Jim and Theresa
Wirth) writes:
>145 volts is a problem. It sounds like the voltage regulator is not
>"closed loop" and the hysteresis is greatly extended. Voltages that
>high can do damage to stuff.
>Vince Wirth
>http://home.earthlink.net/~vincewirth
>
>
>
On our way to Florida last month we started the generator after trying to
crank the engine and finding the chassis battery was not fully charged (problem
with the alternator or regulator) due to using the headlights and dash heater
fan the night before. While checking the chassis battery (and connections) and
preparing to jump it from the house battery, our son shouted to tell us that
there was smoke pouring out of the dash area, window pillars and from behind
the TV. I entered the RV and started looking for the source of the smoke,
while Billy (our son) opened the windows to vent the smoke. Found the problem
in the VCR compartment, the VCR was on fire. Since the window was open I was
able to yank the VCR and its wires out of the compartment and toss it out the
window. Fire in the compartment was extinguished and RV was fully vented. We
stayed in place for about 2 hours to make sure there was no more fire. No
serious damage to RV although the VCR was a total loss, but most importantly
nobody injured. We had no other trouble the rest of the trip to Florida.
Tried to measure the voltage from the generator, BUT having only an analog
meter with us, it pegged the meter off the scale (exceeding 135 volts). Guess
I'll have to invest in a digital meter in the near future.
Made it home safely, but the trip home was also an adventure which I'll
cover in another thread -- maybe I should call it the 'tale of the tire.'
The RV is currently in the shop for repair to charging system and replacement
of burnt valve, as well as, to have the generator checked (and genset muffler
replaced
but that is another story).
Jim & Theresa & Billy
Jim
An analog person in a digital world.
Ron Nash
> "Stan Birch" <bi...@netrover.com> wrote in message
> news:3ac268b5...@news.netrover.com...
>> >On 22 Mar 2001 17:32:48 GMT, Ron Nash <na...@rohan.sdsu.edu> wrote:
>> >I use Mobil Delvac 15W-40 oil (Onan recommends 15W-40 oil)
>>
>> I thought Mobil Delvac is a diesel engine oil; and I thought it
>> carried an SAE 5W-40 viscosity rating---not 15W40.
>>
>> Apart from those who gravitate toward snake-oil, oil-brand and type is
>> really unimportant. If the producers of synthetic oils could produce
>> even the slightest evidence, that their product is in any way better,
Mobil Delvac is not synthetic oil. It costs about $1.25 a quart.
You are thinking of Delvac 1, Mobil's synthetic diesel oil.
The Mobil product data sheet says:
Mobil Delvac 1200 Super 15W-40 engine oil is made with highly refined,
highly stable Group II base stocks that provide low pour capability and
excellent soot control.
Mobil Delvac 1200 Super oils are designed to equal the best competitive
oils in severe commercial on-highway, off-highway and farm service in
both diesel and gasoline engines.
>> The statement that "Onan recommends 15W-40 oil" is only a partial, and
>> perhaps misleading truth. Onan also does not recommend synthetic oil.
>> I use 5W30---the cheapest Wal-Mart oil I can find; and Onan recommends
>> that too. Read the manual and find out what Onan recommends for your
>> particular operating environment.
I did read the manual, it is very specific on 15W-40 for year round useage.
> Onan is pretty clear on their oil recommendations -
> http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/products/powergeneration/generators/oil.c
> fm
> The manual for your particular model genny will tell you what grade oil to
> use, and the Delvac is just fine for it, since it meets the API
> classifications called for by Onan. Onan does recommend 15W-40 for year
> 'round use, and SAE 30 is preferable for hot weather use to help control oil
> consumption. Any oil that meets the API classifications is perfectly OK to
> use, although Onan does tout their own oil as "specially formulated" for
> their equipment. While there isn't any recommendation for synthetics, Onan
> doesn't recommend against them either. Synthetics might be preferable in
> real hot weather because they are better at handling heat compared to
> conventional oils. So... I would go along with using any oil that's on sale
> that'll meet with the temperature range you'll be in.
I agree. In the summer plain 30 weight is fine. I prefer to use the
15W-40.
--
W F Sill
> Apart from those who gravitate toward snake-oil, oil-brand and type is
> really unimportant. If the producers of synthetic oils could produce
> even the slightest evidence, that their product is in any way better,
Perhaps you didn't mean that, but if you did you're quite wrong. The
long report below probably says more than most of us want to know
about oils. If you're too busy to scan the whole thing, here's an
excerpt which accurately reflects agreement among experts:
:The more expensive synthetics; AMSOIL, Mobil 1, and Spectro
:offer the only truly significant differences, due to their superior
:high temperature oxidation resistance, high film strength, very low
:tendancy to form deposits, stable viscosity base, and low temperature
:flow characteristics. Synthetics are superior lubricants compared to
:traditional petroleum oils. You will have to decide if their high cost
:is justifed in your application.
I've had this email in my boilerplate files for a long time, as having
possible value to RV'res. It comes from a University of Nevada-Reno
professor of chemistry, Ed Hackett.
From: e...@wheeler.unr.edu (Ed Hackett)
Subject: Re: Newbie Oil Question (Facts added)(long)
Date: 2 Apr 92 19:33:31 GMT
First, I will answer a couple of questions asked by another. Yes, it
is OK to mix mineral and synthetic oils. One of the early synthetics
used was a Polyalkylene Glycol. This was totally incompatable and
would gel when mixed. This has not been used for years for automotive
lubrication. All common syntetics used for engine lubrication now
days are a Polyalphaolefin (Mobil 1) or a Dibasic Organic Ester type
(AMSOIL). These are fully compatable with conventional oils. In
fact Golden Spectro and AGIP Sint 2000 are mixtures of mineral and
synthetic oils. It is always best to mix oils with the same rating
(SG). This insures that the additive packages are compatable and will
maintain their effectiveness.
All engine oils use an organic Zinc compound as an extreme
pressure/anti wear additive. Spectro adds more to their Motorcycle
oil than to the car oil because Zinc is a poison to catalytic
converters. You will also see that some "car" oil contains more than
their motorcycle oil. The difference in Zinc content between
..11% and .16% is insignificant to the converter. The little data I
saw on the oils packaged by the motorcycle manufacturers indicated
that they were no better than the top automotive oils. While most
were good, they didn't offer anything the cheaper oils do. (They are
in reality just repackaged and in some cases slightly reformulated
top grade auto oils).
The following is a slightly modified repost of my original article.
I have added a few bits that address some FAQs. (long)
____________________________________________________________________
Choosing the best motor oil is a topic that comes up frequently in
discussions between motoheads, whether they are talking about
motorcycles or cars. The following article is intended to help you
make a choice based on more than the advertizing hype.
Oil companies provide data on their oils most often refered to as
"typical inspection data". This is an average of the actual physical
and a few common chemical properties of their oils. This information
is available to the public through their distributors or by writing or
calling the company directly. I have compiled a list of the most
popular, premium oils so that a ready comparison can be made. If your
favorite oil is not on the list get the data from the distributor and
use what I have as a data base.
This article is going to look at six of the most important properties
of a motor oil readily availiable to the public: viscosity, viscosity
index (VI), flash point, pour point, % sulfated ash, and % zinc.
Viscosity is the measure of how thick an oil is. This is the most
important property for an engine. An oil with too low a viscosity can
shear and loose film strength at high temperatures. An oil with too
high a viscosity may not pump to the proper parts at low temperatures
and the film may tear at high rpm.
The weights given on oils are arbitrary numbers assigned by the S.A.E.
(Society of Automotive Engineers). These numbers correspond to "real"
viscosity, as measured by several accepted techniques. These
measurements are taken at specific temperatures. Oils that fall into a
certain range are designated 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 by the S.A.E. The
W means the oil meets specifications for viscosity at 0 F and is
therefore suitable for Winter use.
The following chart shows the relationship of "real" viscosity to
their S.A.E. assigned numbers. The relationship of gear oils to
engine oils is also shown.
[Chart deleted because it's jumbled in tesxt format
for most of us]
Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light
base(5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it
warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow
the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up
the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil
from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100
degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity
number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to
think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50
weight would when hot.
Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but
they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the
narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures
you are going to encounter. The polymers can shear and burn forming
deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and
5W-30 require a lot of polymers(synthetics excluded) to achieve that
range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers
are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in
general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the
high polymer content. Very few manufactures recommend 10W-40 any
more, and some threaten to void warranties if it is used. It was not
included in this article for that reason. 20W-50 is the same 30 point
spread, but because it starts with a heavier base it requires less
viscosity index improvers (polymers) to do the job. AMSOIL can
formulate their 10W-30 and 15W-40 with no viscosity index improvers
but uses some in the 10W-40 and 5W-30. Mobil 1 uses no viscosity
improvers in their 5W-30, and I assume the new 10W-30. Follow your
manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for
your vehicle.
Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of change
in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher
numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively
large change. The higher the number the better. This is one major
property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can
only be compared within a viscosity range. It is not an indication of
how well the oil resists thermal breakdown.
Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that
can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash
point the greater tendancy for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at
high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons.
The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock
used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 F is the minimum to
prevent possible high consumption. Flash point is in degrees F.
Pour point is 5 degrees F above the point at which a chilled oil shows
no movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined. This
measurement is especially important for oils used in the winter. A
borderline pumping temperature is given by some manufacturers. This is
the temperature at which the oil will pump and maintain adequate oil
pressure. This was not given by a lot of the manufacturers, but seems
to be about 20 degrees F above the pour point. The lower the pour
point the better. Pour point is in degrees F.
% sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when the oil burns.
A high ash content will tend to form more sludge and deposits in the
engine. Low ash content also seems to promote long valve life. Look
for oils with a low ash content.
% zinc is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure, anti- wear
additive. The zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal
contact in the engine. Hopefully the oil will do its job and this
will rarely occur, but if it does, the zinc compounds react with the
metal to prevent scuffing and wear. A level of .11% is enough to
protect an automobile engine for the extended oil drain interval,
under normal use. Those of you with high reving, air cooled
motorcycles or turbo charged cars or bikes might want to look at the
oils with the higher zinc content. More doesn't give you better
protection, it gives you longer protection if the rate of metal to
metal contact is abnormally high. High zinc content can lead to
deposit formation and plug fouling.
The Data:
Listed alphabetically --- indicates the data was not avaliable
Brand VI Flash Pour %ash %zinc
20W-50
AMSOIL 136 482 -38 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 122 440 -15 .85 .12
Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0 ---
Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16
Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9 ---
Quaker State Dlx. 155 430 -25 .9 ---
Shell Truck Guard 130 450 -15 1.0 .15
Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 --- .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 --- .13
Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12
Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20
20W-40
Castrol Multi-Grade 110 440 -15 .85 .12
Quaker State 121 415 -15 .9 ---
15W-50
Chevron 204 415 -18 .96 .11
Mobil 1 180 430 -55 --- ---
Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15
15W-40
AMSOIL 135 460 -38 <.5 ---
Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14
Chevron Delo 400 136 421 -27 1.0 ---
Exxon XD3 --- 417 -11 .9 .14
Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13
Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16
Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15
Shell Rotella w/XLA 146 410 -25 1.0 .13
Valvoline All Fleet 140 --- -10 1.0 .15
Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13
10W-30
AMSOIL 142 480 -70 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 140 415 -33 .85 .12
Chevron Supreme 150 401 -26 .96 .11
Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 392 -22 .70 .11
Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 400 -31 .85 .13
Havoline Formula 3 139 430 -30 1.0 ---
Kendall GT-1 139 390 -25 1.0 .16
Mobil 1 --- 430 -60 --- ---
Pennzoil PLZ Turbo 140 410 -27 1.0 ---
Quaker State 156 410 -30 .9 ---
Shell Fire and Ice 155 410 -35 .9 .12
Shell Super 2000 155 410 -35 1.0 .13
Shell Truck Guard 155 405 -35 1.0 .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 175 405 -40 --- ---
Unocal Super 153 428 -33 .92 .12
Valvoline All Climate 130 410 -26 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 135 410 -26 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 130 410 -26 1.2 .20
5W-30
AMSOIL 168 480 -76 <.5 ---
Castrol GTX 156 400 -35 .80 .12
Chevron Supreme 202? 354 -46 .96 .11
Exxon Superflow HP 148 392 -22 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 158 420 -40 1.0 ---
Mobil 1 150 430 -65 --- ---
Mystic JT8 161 390 -25 .95 .1
Quaker State 165 405 -35 .9 ---
Shell Fire and Ice 167 405 -35 .9 .12
Unocal 151 414 -33 .81 .12
Valvoline All Climate 135 405 -40 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 158 405 -40 .99 .13
All of the oils above meet current SG/CD ratings and all vehicle
manufacture's warranty requirements in the proper viscosity. All are
"good enough", but those with the better numbers are icing on the
cake. The more expensive synthetics; AMSOIL, Mobil 1, and Spectro
offer the only truly significant differences, due to their superior
high temperature oxidation resistance, high film strength, very low
tendancy to form deposits, stable viscosity base, and low temperature
flow characteristics. Synthetics are superior lubricants compared to
traditional petroleum oils. You will have to decide if their high
cost is justifed in your application.
The extended oil drain intervals given by the vehicle manufacturers
(typically 7500 miles) and synthetic oil companies(up to 25,000 miles)
are for what is called normal service. Normal service is defined as
the engine at normal operating temperature, at highway speeds, and in
a dust free environment. Stop and go, city driving, trips of less
than 10 miles, or exterme heat or cold puts the oil change interval
into the severe service category, which is 3000 miles for most
vehicles. Synthetics can be run two to three times the mileage of
petroleum oils with no problems. They do not react to combustion and
combustion by-products to the extent that the dead dinosaur juice
does. The longer drain intervals possible help take the bite out of
the higher cost of the synthetics. If your car or bike is still under
warranty you will have to stick to the recommended drain intervals.
These are set for petroleum oils and the manufacturers make no
official allowance for the use of synthetics.
Oil additives should not be used. The oil companies have gone to
great lengths to develop an additive package that meets the vehicle's
requirements. Some of these additives are synergistic, that is the
effect of two additives together is greater than the effect of each
acting separately. If you add anything to the oil you may upset this
balance and prevent the oil from performing to specification.
The numbers above are not, by any means, all there is to determining
what makes a top quality oil. The exact base stock used, the type,
quality, and quantity of additives used are very important. The given
data combined with the manufacturer's claims, your personal
experience, and the reputation of the oil among others who use it
should help you make an informed choice.
Ed Hackett The Desert Research Institute
e...@wheeler.wrc.unr.edu Reno, Nevada (702) 673-7380
DoD #200 WMTC BMWRA DIOC I'm not really a chemist, I'm just one of
DUCATI 900SS BMW K100RS them motorsicle sonsabitches. __=o&o>__
=========end quoted material==========
Synthetics are NOT snake oil, despite the fact that some are peddled
by circus barkers - some are excellent lubes worth considering. I
don't use 'em because in my application they aren't economically
justified, but that doesn't mean they don't have a place.
Will Sill KD3XR
"I don't want everyone to like me. I should think
less of myself if some people did". - Henry James
Vince Wirth
wrote:
>Yeh, the older Service Manual did specify that, but they added the
>ą10% in 1995.
Stan,
His was a 1987 model. Also the statement of 132 +/- is at NO load. He
stated that he had a radio going. He said 200 Watts but I suspect
closer to 20 watts. That load should keep the voltage down if
everything is working. The loop speed is slow because something in
the circuit is not working. Something like a bleed resistor across a
filter capacitor is open. Why do I say it's slow? Because he said that
the voltage was STILL coming down when he looked later. I hope
we will hear the results after it's fixed.
Vince
Dan
built-in overvoltage protection. My old generator ran higher voltages at
low loads. This would keep my VCR from working unless I added a few
things to the load. I also had a fire in the control/ciruit side of the
microwave. The surge suppressor was dropping all of the overvoltage
through it as if it was one long surge. The suppressor finally got so
hot it caught on fire and burnt down the circuit card and ruined the
microwave (and ruined my nerves).
Dan
Washington the state.
Jacques Marcotte
this is par for the course.
I want to thank everyone again. Right now, I feel I don't have a disastrous
situation, but I would feel much better if the regulation was a bit better.
250 hours since 1987 is indeed low. I will run some carb cleaner. Also, i
will run some more tests, like RPM , to see how well the gen motor keeps its
speed under varying load conditions. Also, I will check the brushes or the
commutator, as I suspect there may be a fair amount of corrosion.
I will make sure to inform the group of the outcome, but it may be another
one or two months before I can work outside, on the generator. There is
still about three feet of snow around.
This is a great group.
Jacques
Young
type generator. i.e. control of frequency and voltage independent of
engine speed.
Frederick
"Stan Birch" <bi...@netrover.com> wrote in message
news:3ab98e87...@news.netrover.com...
> >Jacques Marcotte wrote:
> >> The gen is a 6.5KW. I loaded it with two 1500W heaters. (There
is still
> >> snow on the ground around here).
> >>
> >> When both heaters were on, the voltage, measured at one outlet
inside the MH
> >> read about 115V, with a variation of 0.5V either way.
>
> No problem there.
>
> >> If I reduced the load by half, by cutting off one heater, the
voltage jumped
> >> to about 125V, and 3 minutes later was still slowly coming down,
but was
> >> aroung 120V.
>
> No problem there.
>
> >> If I removed both heaters, (a radio stayed on, so maybe about
200W), the
> >> voltage jumped to about 145V, and 5 minutes later had come down
to about
> >> 129V, but was still slowly coming down. I did not measure how
long it took
> >> to get down to "normal", whatever that is.
>
> No problem there either.
>
> The radio would typically consume less than 10 watts, so for
practical
> purposes, you are operating under no-load, which should give you a
max
> voltage of 132V ą10%. Full-load should give you a minimum of 114V
> ą10%. So your no-load voltages are within specs.
>
> No-load frequency should be 62-63 Hz with a drop of no more than 4
Hz
> under load.
>
> >> Is this behaviour normal? I suspect not. If not, any
suggestions of what
> >> to look for?
>
> All your voltages are within specs. As long as your generator isn't
> hunting in an effort to find the right speed, everything is
operating
> as it should. If the voltage regulator drops the voltage too
suddenly,
> then the engine speed could change, causing frequency fluctuations.
>
> Stan Birch
> Sharon, Ontario
Young
It's amazing that at 170 volts more stuff hadn't quit. I had a Dometic
fridge that used a 110 Volt heater. I spent about two months connected
to a 120V supply and it quit. I had to put 110V replacement back in
because it was all I could get at the time, but this time I used a
solid state power controller and set the voltage to 110 V
Frederick
."Chris Bryant" <brya...@totcon.com> wrote in message
news:t6rkbts7vb0jf1pbm...@4ax.com...
Young
I don't expect you to accept this, but closed looped means that the
voltage output is fed back to the regulator which measures the
difference between what it should be and what it is. It then reduces
the difference (offset) until it reaches an acceptable value. No
feedback means it is open looped and you are getting the output
voltage from the generator that happens to correspond to that load and
rpm. unregulated. Some early cheaper generators used no voltage
regulator and you got the voltage output that the generator was
designed to give at a speed and load prescribed. If you were above the
load, the voltage drooped, and below that load it increased. They had
fixed excitation, which set the voltage. A voltage regulator required
the generator to have variable excitation. I would expect the Onan to
have variable excitation.
Frederick
"Stan Birch" <bi...@netrover.com> wrote in message
news:3abf627b...@news.netrover.com...
> >>>> If I removed both heaters, (a radio stayed on, so maybe about
200W), the
> >>>> voltage jumped to about 145V, and 5 minutes later had come down
to about
> >>>> 129V, but was still slowly coming down. I did not measure how
long it took
> >>>> to get down to "normal", whatever that is.
>
> >>Stan Birch wrote:
> >>No problem there either.
>
>
> >On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:05:54 GMT, vince...@earthlink.net (Vince
Wirth) wrote:
> >145 volts is a problem. It sounds like the voltage regulator is not
> >"closed loop" and the hysteresis is greatly extended. Voltages that
> >high can do damage to stuff.
> >Vince Wirth
>
> Vince,
>
> When I listed the specs as:
>
> - max no-load voltage of 132V ą10%;
> - min full-load voltage of 114V ą10%;
>
> I was taking them directly from page S-7 the "Onan RV Genset Service
> Manual; BGE, NHE; Supplement 11-95"
>
> So max no-load voltage of 132 ą10% means that 145 V is still within
> specs.
>
> I am not quite sure what you mean by "voltage regulator is not
> "closed loop" and the hysteresis is greatly extended." Jacques says
he
> took a reading of 145 V *immediately* after shedding his load. Then
he
> took another reading 5 min later and got a 129V reading. He isn't
> suggesting that it took 5 min to get down to 129V. So I don't know
how
> fast the VAC (field current) was reduced, but I would assume that it
> is reduced slow enough to prevent the gen from hunting and surging.
> The fact that the VAC came to rest at 129V is consistent with the
> typical 128V resolution suggested by Onan.
>
> While I don't disagree that voltage that high **can** cause damage;
I
> would also say that any AC device that is so cheeep that it can be
> damaged by 10 to 15% over-voltage, should put to rest in any event.
In
> any reasonably designed AC device, components typically have a 100%
> over-voltage rating. While they always show nominal voltage, very
few
> ever show maximum voltage. My computer power supply, on the other
> hand, lists minimum and maximum, i.e. 100 - 240VAC. I am confident
> that any AC device worth keeping, is capable of withstanding
> considerable over-voltage. Manufacturers don't have any choice but
to
> build in this additional protection, since some communities,
> particularly in remote rural areas experience widely fluctuating
> voltages. So IMO 145VAC is a non-issue.
>
> And for the benefit of anyone else reading this---because Vince
> already knows this---under-voltage has a much greater potential for
> wrecking stuff than over-voltage. Air Conditioners would be a good
> example.
>
> Stan Birch
> Sharon, Ontario
Young
Hysteresis is when you put some energy into a system and it doesn't
come back out as quickly as you might expect. For instance l your
springs on the truck bend and flex. In doing so they get slightly
warm, that because they have a low hysteresis. The iron in a
transformer gets warm, also because the magnetizing and demagnetizing
as the current in the windings increase and decrease leaves some
energy behind. That's Hysteresis. If the voltage takes a swing and
only comes back slowly. That's hysteresis or it could be.
Is good NO?
Frederick
"Young" <fyo...@lakefield.net> wrote in message
news:ceNu6.5474$7e6.1...@homer.alpha.net...
Neon John
Stan Birch wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 23 Mar 2001 "Young" <fyo...@lakefield.net> wrote:
> > I would expect the Onan to have variable excitation.
> >
> Yes, Onan does.
Some do, some don't. My Onan uses a saturated field and does NOT
have a regulator. This discussion is meaningless without knowing
the guy's model.
John
--
John De Armond
johngdDO...@bellsouth.net
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~johngd/
Cleveland, occupied TN
Neon John
Stan Birch wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 24 Mar 2001 Neon John <johngdDO...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >Some do, some don't. My Onan uses a saturated field and does NOT
> >have a regulator. This discussion is meaningless without knowing
> >the guy's model.
>
> True. So, ever checked your load vs no-load voltage?
Yup. It moves around quite a bit, though it's been awhile so I'm
reluctant to post numbers. It seems like that with the governor set
for 60.) hz, the no load voltage is around 125. At full load the
frequency drops a couple of hz and the voltage is probably down to
around 108-110. Both the engine and carburetor are tired so the
governor can't control the thing nearly as well as it will after the
pending overhaul.
If the guy who started this thread's generator is a saturated field
unit like mine, then his symptoms would indicate either a mis-tuned
governor, sticky throttle linkage and/or the idle speed adjustment
set too high so the governor can't throttle it down far enough at no
load. If it has an active regulator, I'd quickly check the governor
just to make sure but I'd suspect the regulator.
Young
regulator and the voltage droop with load was quite large. Also the
speed droop with load was similarly large. So I decided to see if I
could improve the speed droop and improve the voltage droop. I
extended the arm from the governor that operated the throttle so that
a smaller movement of the governor arm gave a larger movement of the
throttle arm. I found that it considerably improved both the speed and
the voltage droop without encountering instability. Without the
modification I would have sold it but afterwards I decided to keep it.
I don't use it now but it occured to me that other saturated field
generators might be worth attempting speed droop reduction also and
improve their voltage droop with load. If you encounter instability
well back up until it stops or even introduce a little bit of
dampening into the linkage.
Frederick
"Neon John" <johngdDO...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3ABD7138...@bellsouth.net...
Chris Bryant
<<..>>
>If the guy who started this thread's generator is a saturated field
>unit like mine, then his symptoms would indicate either a mis-tuned
>governor, sticky throttle linkage and/or the idle speed adjustment
>set too high so the governor can't throttle it down far enough at no
>load.
I'm making a SWAG, and guessing that it is actually a sticking
governor linkage, since I have about the same genset he does, and
that's what the symptoms sound like.