Dinghy towing in British Columbia? READ THIS
Roger L. Adams
Bruce Livingstone, C.A. wrote:
>
> Hundreds of unsuspecting holiday travellers are being socked
> with fines of up to $200 as B.C. Mounties crack down on
> little-known regulations for towing trailers.
>
> Trailers or towed vehicles weighing more that 1,400 kilograms
> [3,080 pounds] must now be equipped with an independent braking
> system and an emergency brake in the event of a hitch failure.
>
Problem is there is no such system for a toad. You can get brakes to
activate with the MH brakes but you can't get a break-a-way system.
> But the rules are designed to make mountain driving safer,
> Fenwick said.
>
Since there isn't a system on the market that satisfies the law and the
law isn't posted it sounds more like a rule designed to collect revenue
to me. If they were really interested in the so called safety aspect
they would turn any MH with a toad around at the border since all of
them are illegal.
> Drivers are being ordered to immediately disconnect trailers if
> they don't meet B.C. regulations.
>
Looks like I will join many others in taking Canada off of my must visit
list.
Roger
Alex Cohen
Roger L. Adams wrote:
> Looks like I will join many others in taking Canada off of my must visit
> list.
>
> Roger
What a clever tourist enhancing campaign. It's working because I'm not
going either.
I kind of wish someone of authority from the Canadian government would
post some answers to the many complaints I have been reading about
relating to RV travel into their country and now with this thread in
their country. But then they have every right to do whatever they want,
their just not going to do it to me.
Alex
Chris G. Thorne
"Roger L. Adams" (rog...@uiuc.edu) writes:
> Looks like I will join many others in taking Canada off of my must visit
> list.
>
> Roger
I think it would be a shame for one to miss an entire country because of
one province's idiot law. ;-(
I wouldn't rule out the U.S. because say " Maine " had such a law !
Try Canada's East coast, for example this province of Newfoundland which
has it's 500th Anniversary in 97' ! 8-)
--
Chris G. Thorne
St. John's, Newfoundland
Bruce Livingstone, C.A.
Dinghy towing in British Columbia?? - READ THIS
From the "Calgary Herald", Calgary, AB - Aug 15/96 - page B1
Traveller Beware - by Sasha Nagy, Calgary Herald
Unsuspecting tourists hit with fines for little-known B.C.
trailer violations
Hundreds of unsuspecting holiday travellers are being socked
with fines of up to $200 as B.C. Mounties crack down on
little-known regulations for towing trailers.
Trailers or towed vehicles weighing more that 1,400 kilograms
[3,080 pounds] must now be equipped with an independent braking
system and an emergency brake in the event of a hitch failure.
Golden RCMP [the RCMP detachment that patrols the area in B.C.
immediately west of Banff National Park] Sgt. Ed Fenwick said
the highway patrol has already issued "several hundred
tickets," admitting there are many unhappy campers on his
highways this summer.
But the rules are designed to make mountain driving safer,
Fenwick said.
Drivers are being ordered to immediately disconnect trailers if
they don't meet B.C. regulations.
"It would have been nice if they told us," said Al Saigeon, an
RV driver safety instructor with the Alberta Motor Association.
The RV industry and the AMA were not advised of the crackdown,
he said.
Woody's RV World employees heard from customers just two weeks
ago, added sales manager Bruce Schinnoun. "You can go from
Mexico to Alaska and not get a ticket -- unless you go through
B.C."
The regulations apply regardless of the size of the towing
vehicle. Vehicles towed on a dolly also require an emergency
braking system. And towing two items is strictly prohibited --
even if the first trailer is a fifth-wheel trailer.
B.C. Transportation and Highways Ministry spokesman Jeff Knight
said the laws took effect two years ago, but RCMP only began
enforcing them this year. There are no highway signsin B.C.
notifying thepublic about the changes. Tranportation and
Highways says it will post signs by the end of the month.
Calgarian Allen Richardson was stopped on a recent holiday and
assessed a $200 fine for not having brakes on the vehicle he
was towing. He was told to unhook his Bronco on the spot, and
his passenger had to drive it from that point on.
Richardson was on a narrow shoulder of road on Highway 93 near
Radium, and wasn't permitted to take it to a safer place to
unhook the vehicle. He was instructed to do it on the spot.
"If this is the policy of B.C. and its police on how to treat
tourists in their province, I wish them luck promoting
tourism," said Anderson.
------------------------
JACK CLARKE
There are certain treaties that have been signed between the
states and provinces to avoid persecution because of some obscure
law that one entity decides to pass. I wish I could think of an
example; but I just decided to throw this in on the spur of the
moment.
It would be nice if someone with the knowledge could check this
out and let us know. I don't think they can do that to vehicles
from out of province.
P.S. Change "between" to "among". :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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| ||
__|__________||_______________
/| | / / | | \ * * * * * * * * * * * *
/ |\__| /_____/ |____| | * EITHER PASS OR PARK *
| | * YOU IDIOT *
~!~| VE3EED/W7 Mesa || * * * * * * * * * * * *
| | Jack AZ ||
----(0)---------------(0)----------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To: the SECOND vehicle in the lineup
--
Roger L. Adams
Chris,
The problem I have is that I am not convinced it is just one province.
How would I find out? I don't have time to study all of the laws before
a vacation. This law says "STAY OUT" since there is not a system that
does what they are requiring. If it is just one province then someone
needs to educate them quickly. I would leave my gun at home but I will
not leave my toad.
Roger
Ralph Lindberg & Ellen Winnie
Actually the laws about towing are similar in many states. There was a
recent article about this in a magazine I get (Coast to Coast?). Talking
about how many MH that tow cars are not legal.
For instance, several states require brakes (including break-away) on
trailer units of as little as 1000 lb (or even any trailer, or any
wieght). Limits this small requires that every car would require a
breaking system.
My suggestion is to not focus too hard on BC, instead expect this to
start happening in many areas and be ready
Ralph
--
Ralph Lindberg N7BSN e-mail to drag...@scn.org (read daily)
RV and Camping FAQ <http://kendaco.telebyte.net/rlindber/rv/
They call it "Sur'n the Net" 'cause you can wipe out so easy
Roger L. Adams
Ralph,
You bring up a good point and have caused me to research this and I
wonder if we have a serious problem here.
Illinois law requires:
"Every trailer or semitrailer of a gross weight of over 3,000 pounds
when operated upon a highway must be equipped with brakes adequate to
control the movement of, to stop and to hold such vehicle, and designed
so as to be operable by the driver of the towing vehicle from its cab.
Such brakes must be so designed and connected that in case of an
accidental breakaway of a towed vehicle over 5,000 pounds, the brakes
are automatically applied."
This makes good sense to me since there are systems available to apply
the brakes from the "cab" of the towing vehicle and not many of us are
towing a toad that weighs 5,000 pounds. Now what happens when I cross
the state line? In this day and age of traveling everywhere it would
seem that I should if legal in my home state, be legal in other states.
If this isn't the case then maybe these types of laws should be enacted
by the Federal Govt.(yuck)
Roger
Roger L. Adams
JACK CLARKE wrote:
>
> "Roger L. Adams" <rog...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> >Illinois law requires:
> >
> >"Every trailer or semitrailer of a gross weight of over 3,000 pounds
> >when operated upon a highway must be equipped with brakes adequate to
> >control the movement of, to stop and to hold such vehicle, and designed
> >so as to be operable by the driver of the towing vehicle from its cab.
> >Such brakes must be so designed and connected that in case of an
> >accidental breakaway of a towed vehicle over 5,000 pounds, the brakes
> >are automatically applied."
>
> to anything else. It wouldn't apply to a tow-truck towing another
> vehicle either.
>
Jack,
I would agree but we shouldn't have to go to court to get "trailer"
defined and their definition may not agree with ours. Tow trucks in
Illinois are covered under a different statute.
Roger
Roger
JACK CLARKE
"Roger L. Adams" <rog...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>Illinois law requires:
>
>"Every trailer or semitrailer of a gross weight of over 3,000 pounds
>when operated upon a highway must be equipped with brakes adequate to
>control the movement of, to stop and to hold such vehicle, and designed
>so as to be operable by the driver of the towing vehicle from its cab.
>Such brakes must be so designed and connected that in case of an
>accidental breakaway of a towed vehicle over 5,000 pounds, the brakes
>are automatically applied."
Note: This says "trailer or semitrailer". I don't think it applies
to anything else. It wouldn't apply to a tow-truck towing another
vehicle either.
>This makes good sense to me since there are systems available to apply
>the brakes from the "cab" of the towing vehicle and not many of us are
>towing a toad that weighs 5,000 pounds. Now what happens when I cross
>the state line? In this day and age of traveling everywhere it would
>seem that I should if legal in my home state, be legal in other states.
>If this isn't the case then maybe these types of laws should be enacted
>by the Federal Govt.(yuck)
I agree that, when you cross the state line, you should not have to
re-make your vehicle to comply with any differences in "equipment" laws.
There are sections, in every vehicle code I've read, regarding out-of-
state vehicles. Usually, they refer to equipment violations like this.
You might check this out in your state.
Also, many of the states have reciprocal agreements now. They relate
to such things as drivers' licenses and registration. It used to be
that one state couldn't do anything about the fact that you had not
renewed your license in the other state. Now they can -- apparently.
I don't know if it's been tested in court yet. Don't seem right!!!
I will try to check this out in Arizona one of these days.
Roger --- you said it! Federal Gov't. (yuck)
Roy Schmaus
Bruce Livingstone, C.A. wrote:
>
> Dinghy towing in British Columbia?? - READ THIS<Stuff deleted)
> ------------------------
>
> Sounds like the bureaucrats have been at it again, a few years ago
they were stopping big-rig truckers and ordering quite a few of them
off the road at the summit of the Rogers Pass- A location 100 miles
from either of the two nearest towns.
On the other hand,I have driven the infamous "Ten Mile Bridge" section
of road East of Golden many times, there are a lot of sharp curves
and steep grades with a bridge crossing a gorge in the middle.
The road has been greatly improved in recent years, but going down
East of Golden with no trailer brakes or break-away switch is still a
recipe for trouble.
FWIW towing a boat behind a fiver is legal (with restrictions) in
Alberta, apparrently not so in B.C.. The Alberta Government even put
out a pamphlet on towing behind fifth wheels but from reading it get
the impression they don't think it's a good idea- impossible to back
up and easy to exceed G.V.W.
--
Roy Schmaus
Room 442 Civil/Electrical Engineering Bldg.
University of Alberta (403) 492-4118/2354
Edmonton,Alberta fax (403) 492-1811
Canada T6G 2G7 email:sch...@ee.ualberta.ca
http://nyquist.ee.ualberta.ca/~schmaus/
wi...@peach.epix.net
If I were a legislator (Heaven forbid!) I too would seek to write
laws to prevent people from towing heavy stuff with no brakes.
I would probably make lots of people mad and a few people happy, but as I
have frequently opined in this space, it simply ain't safe to go bonking
down the highways with heavy loads attached to equipment whose brakes are
none too competent to begin with. I am not sure where the proper line
should be drawn, and it variess from place to place and from driver to
driver - but there is a LOT of obscenely expensive junk careening over the
highways without adequate brakes.
OTOH I am no big fan of "breakaway" systems that seek to solve a perceived
problem by having the brakes come on when an accidental disconnect occurs.
For one thing, disconnects are so rare as to be almost non-existent from a
statistical POV. For another, it is hard to visualize a situation where
even effective brakes would REALLY solve much: an unguided missile on the
highway is not really less of a hazard if it's brakes work!
Probably the BEST we can hope for is that a growing number of RV'ers will
exercise good judgment and take the advice of experienced folks - before
Mark Twain's quip becomes even more obviously true: "The law", he said,
"is a ass".
Just my 3 cents.
wi...@epix.net - KD3XR - W F Sill, Tunkhannock, PA
Alex Cohen
wi...@peach.epix.net wrote:
>
> If I were a legislator (Heaven forbid!) I too would seek to write
> laws to prevent people from towing heavy stuff with no brakes.
>
> I would probably make lots of people mad and a few people happy, but as I
> have frequently opined in this space, it simply ain't safe to go bonking
> down the highways with heavy loads attached to equipment whose brakes are
> none too competent to begin with. I am not sure where the proper line
> should be drawn, and it variess from place to place and from driver to
> driver - but there is a LOT of obscenely expensive junk careening over the
> highways without adequate brakes.
From the original post post:
. Trailers or towed vehicles weighing more that 1,400 kilograms
. [3,080 pounds] must now be equipped with an independent braking
. system and an emergency brake in the event of a hitch failure.
.
. Golden RCMP [the RCMP detachment that patrols the area in B.C.
. immediately west of Banff National Park] Sgt. Ed Fenwick said
. the highway patrol has already issued "several hundred
. tickets," admitting there are many unhappy campers on his
. highways this summer.
.
. But the rules are designed to make mountain driving safer,
. Fenwick said.
.
. Drivers are being ordered to immediately disconnect trailers if
. they don't meet B.C. regulations.
.
. "It would have been nice if they told us," said Al Saigeon, an
. RV driver safety instructor with the Alberta Motor Association.
.
. The RV industry and the AMA were not advised of the crackdown,
. he said.
.
. Woody's RV World employees heard from customers just two weeks
. ago, added sales manager Bruce Schinnoun. "You can go from
. Mexico to Alaska and not get a ticket -- unless you go through
. B.C."
It is not the fact that they have put a law in place, but rather when
and where they are choosing to enforce it. Here it is 2 years down the
road and instead of bringing this up when entering the province they
wait till you are a point of no return. It seems to me not to be a
safety thing but capricious bureaucracy at work. If they were really
interested in enforcing their laws they would enforce them at the point
of entry and they would have started 2 years ago.
The original title of the article:
. From the "Calgary Herald", Calgary, AB - Aug 15/96 - page B1
.
. Traveller Beware - by Sasha Nagy, Calgary Herald
I think the newspaper has it right: Traveller (RV'er") Beware.
Alex
fpo...@atcon.com
"Roger L. Adams" <rog...@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>Bruce Livingstone, C.A. wrote:
>>
>> Hundreds of unsuspecting holiday travellers are being socked
>> with fines of up to $200 as B.C. Mounties crack down on
>> little-known regulations for towing trailers.
>>
>> Trailers or towed vehicles weighing more that 1,400 kilograms
>> [3,080 pounds] must now be equipped with an independent braking
>> system and an emergency brake in the event of a hitch failure.
>>
>Problem is there is no such system for a toad. You can get brakes to
>activate with the MH brakes but you can't get a break-a-way system.
>
>> But the rules are designed to make mountain driving safer,
>> Fenwick said.
>>
>Since there isn't a system on the market that satisfies the law and the
>law isn't posted it sounds more like a rule designed to collect revenue
>to me. If they were really interested in the so called safety aspect
>they would turn any MH with a toad around at the border since all of
>them are illegal.
>> Drivers are being ordered to immediately disconnect trailers if
>> they don't meet B.C. regulations.
>>
>Looks like I will join many others in taking Canada off of my must visit
>list.
>Roger
Thank God Nova Scotia has no such law. As a matter of fact, I called
our Provincial transportation office and they advised me that this
Province does not hold out of country tourists to these type of laws.
If they violate a rule, like "not crossing the safety chains", they
are informed of the regulation and that is all. Speed limits etc are a
different thing. As a matter of fact, our trailer and towing
regulations are not closely enforced, as long as they meet the basic
regulations. BTW, the transportation office also felt that it would be
hard to enforce this law on a visitor rom another country.
Frank
Chris G. Thorne
Roger,
One way is to call directory assistance for the province (s) in question
and ask for an R.C.M.P Detachment. They should be able to give you the answer
quicker than say, some red tape bureaucrat with a provincial D.O.T. ;-)
Donald J. Dickson
Alex Cohen (aac...@mail.wiscnet.net) writes:
> Roger L. Adams wrote:
>
>> Looks like I will join many others in taking Canada off of my must visit
>> list.
>>
>> Roger
>
>
> What a clever tourist enhancing campaign. It's working because I'm not
> going either.
>
> I kind of wish someone of authority from the Canadian government would
> post some answers to the many complaints I have been reading about
> relating to RV travel into their country and now with this thread in
> their country. But then they have every right to do whatever they want,
> their just not going to do it to me.
>
> Alex
Hi Alex
I agree that this seems to be a revenue grab (and I'm a Canadian). But
would someone please explain how people who tow cars etc. are exempt from
the laws saying brakes and break away devices are required on trailers etc
over 2000 pounds in many of the states. Do they simply not enforce this
regulation?
Just curious,
Don Dickson
--
Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately it kills all its students!
Alex
Donald J. Dickson wrote:
> Hi Alex
> I agree that this seems to be a revenue grab (and I'm a Canadian). But
> would someone please explain how people who tow cars etc. are exempt from
> the laws saying brakes and break away devices are required on trailers etc
> over 2000 pounds in many of the states. Do they simply not enforce this
> regulation?
>
I think that this is a very good point. I think that enforcement at least
here in the US is lax at best or nonexistant at worst. The best indicator or
this that I cant think of is the sale of tow dollies that from what I can tell
have no provision for brakes or breakaway devices other than safety chains.
Additionally there are very few devices out there that will allow a towed
vehicle with all four wheels on the ground to have it's brakes applied when
being towed.
Perhaps other posters more knowledgeable on this subject will comment.
As I said it is not the law/regulation that I have a problem with. It's the
method by which they are choosing to apply it.
Alex
Ralph Lindberg & Ellen Winnie
In article <321771...@mail.wiscnet.net>, Alex
<aac...@mail.wiscnet.net> wrote:
>>
>
>I think that this is a very good point. I think that enforcement at least
>here in the US is lax at best or nonexistant at worst. The best indicator or
>this that I cant think of is the sale of tow dollies that from what I can tell
>have no provision for brakes or breakaway devices other than safety chains.
>Additionally there are very few devices out there that will allow a towed
>vehicle with all four wheels on the ground to have it's brakes applied when
>being towed.
Actually that was the point of the article I was reading, was that this
is the requirement in many states, it's just not enforced. Some states
(Wyoming for one?) require brakes, break-away on -all- trailers.
Boris Badenov
>Bruce Livingstone, C.A. wrote:
>>
>> Dinghy towing in British Columbia?? - READ THIS<Stuff deleted)
>> ------------------------
>>
>> Sounds like the bureaucrats have been at it again, a few years ago
>they were stopping big-rig truckers and ordering quite a few of them
>off the road at the summit of the Rogers Pass- A location 100 miles
>from either of the two nearest towns.
>
> On the other hand,I have driven the infamous "Ten Mile Bridge" section
>of road East of Golden many times, there are a lot of sharp curves
>and steep grades with a bridge crossing a gorge in the middle.
>The road has been greatly improved in recent years, but going down
>East of Golden with no trailer brakes or break-away switch is still a
>recipe for trouble.
>
> FWIW towing a boat behind a fiver is legal (with restrictions) in
>Alberta, apparrently not so in B.C.. The Alberta Government even put
>out a pamphlet on towing behind fifth wheels but from reading it get
>the impression they don't think it's a good idea- impossible to back
>up and easy to exceed G.V.W.
It's nice to see some personal experience and common sense prevail.
Gary Carter
at...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Chris G. Thorne) wrote:
>"Roger L. Adams" (rog...@uiuc.edu) writes:
>> Looks like I will join many others in taking Canada off of my must visit
>> list.
>>
>> Roger
>I think it would be a shame for one to miss an entire country because of
>one province's idiot law. ;-(
>I wouldn't rule out the U.S. because say " Maine " had such a law !
>Try Canada's East coast, for example this province of Newfoundland which
>has it's 500th Anniversary in 97' ! 8-)
>--
>Chris G. Thorne
>St. John's, Newfoundland
Most states have trailer laws. Legally in Minnesota any trailer over
1500 lbs must have active brakes. A towed vehicle is considered a
trailer. If you have a Rand McNelly map , in the front these weights
are listed by state. The laws are ignored and law enforment is not
stopping violators.
Ken Arundell
Roger L. Adams <rog...@uiuc.edu> wrote in article
<321373...@uiuc.edu>...
> Looks like I will join many others in taking Canada off of my must visit
> list.
Ever looked at a map? There's a lot more to Canada than BC. In fact many of
us wonder whether BC is really in Canada :-)
Ken Arundell
(in Portage la Prairie, Manitoba, Canada, where we don't need no brakes --
we got no hills.)
Roger L. Adams
Ken,
Yes I often look at maps and you are correct BC is just a small part of
Canada. My problem is I didn't know this was a law in BC until I read
it here and I don't know what other laws they may be keeping a secret.
Canada isn't alone in this as it happens in the USA also but, I have
this thing about unknowingly breaking a law in another country. I have
visited Canada and will probably do so again (with my toad) but I will
not take my MH across the border.
If someone in BC can direct me to a place that sells a brake system that
meets the BC legal requirements I will rethink my position. Problem is
there isn't any such system on the market.
Roger
gomez...@gmail.com
> Bruce Livingstone, C.A. wrote:
> >
>
> > with fines of up to $200 as B.C. Mounties crack down on
> > little-known regulations for towing trailers.
> >
> > Trailers or towed vehicles weighing more that 1,400 kilograms
> > [3,080 pounds] must now be equipped with an independent braking
> > system and an emergency brake in the event of a hitch failure.
> >
> Problem is there is no such system for a toad. You can get brakes to
> activate with the MH brakes but you can't get a break-a-way system.
>
> > But the rules are designed to make mountain driving safer,
> > Fenwick said.
> >
>
> Since there isn't a system on the market that satisfies the law and the
> law isn't posted it sounds more like a rule designed to collect revenue
> to me. If they were really interested in the so called safety aspect
> they would turn any MH with a toad around at the border since all of
> them are illegal.
>
>
> > Drivers are being ordered to immediately disconnect trailers if
> > they don't meet B.C. regulations.
> >
>
> list.
>
I Have A 1992 dodge dacota 4x4 that has air brakes and a dynamite system ran off of air from the RV brakes . The air booster sits between the master cyl. and the power vac on the truck so when i apply brakes in the motorhome the diaphram in the truck applies the truck brakes. A small tank attached to the inner fender of the toad has enough aie to apply the brakes on the toad should it break away. Hope that helps
Bruce
time I can remember one that was over 21 years old.
--
Bruce
"In debates between anarchists and statists, the burden of proof clearly
should rest on those who place their trust in the state. Anarchy's
mayhem is wholly conjectural; the state's mayhem is undeniably,
factually horrendous."~~ Robert Higgs.