We've been tent campers for some time and thought this would be a good
way to get off the ground so to speak.
We've also been thinking about a new car to replace the old Taurus
with 185,000 miles on it and are wondering what smaller, more fuel-
efficient car we could buy that would pull that 1300 pound Aliner with
no difficulty.
We've looked at Fords, Kias, Hyundais, Hondas and Toyotas and many of
the salesman think a minimum of around 150 hp is necessary which
covers all of the V6 motors but also some 4's in the 2.4 liter range
and above also boast that horsepower. We're hoping to buy the new tow
vehicle for under $20,000 and maybe wish for 15-18 mpg pulling the
Scout.
Anyone had experience pulling one of these 1300 pounders with a
subcompact or compact car? I realize this group is more about travel
trailers and motor homes but figured a towing capacity question could
really be answered in just about any RV group.
Thanks in advance.
Gil
FYI, my gmc safari has a 4.3L 6 cyl and can tow 5,000 pounds with no
problems. At only 1300 pounds, practically any 4cyl should handle it.
I had looked at a trailer a few years ago that weighed 3,000 and they
claimed towable behind any car. Be sure to get yourself a class III hitch.
that will handle up to 5,000.
Don't you think though that a 2.4L or 2.7L 4-cylinder might find it
easier than say a 1.6L 4-cylinder? Wouldn't the larger displacement
fours have more torque and horsepower?
> I had looked at a trailer a few years ago that weighed 3,000 and they claimed towable behind any car. Be sure to get yourself a class III hitch that will handle up to 5,000.
Curious as to why I would need a Class III capable of 5,000 pounds
when I'd be towing about one-fourth (1/4) of that weight. I was
thinking more along the lines of a Class II.
Gil
Horsepower yes. Torque is developed after the engine. Another thing you
should look at is the cooling system. My safari didn't like the extra
weight in hot weather. Constantly heating up.
>
>> I had looked at a trailer a few years ago that weighed 3,000 and they claimed towable behind any car. Be sure to get yourself a class III hitch that will handle up to 5,000.
>
> Curious as to why I would need a Class III capable of 5,000 pounds
> when I'd be towing about one-fourth (1/4) of that weight. I was
> thinking more along the lines of a Class II.
>
> Gil
Think for the future. If the vehicle can tow 5,000, get the class III and
be done with it. Two years from now you want a bigger trailer. So you have
the hitch. If you bought a class II and find out now you need a III, what
are you gonna do with the old one? Scrap it?
I don't know if this will help, but I had a boat & trailer that
weighed about 2500#. It towed great behind my toyota pick-up with
plenty of power. The pick-up was a 2.2 liter 4cyl with a 5 speed
stick. I don't know what the HP was. I would get about 18 mpg towing.
Hank
Let me clarify the situation a little here. In my OP I said we were
looking for a smaller. more fuel efficient car to replace the Taurus.
We had thought about just buying a 30+ mpg subcompact and packing our
tent gear in the back and continuing our tenting ways of camping.
Then the opportunity for the lightweight Scout came along. A fuel-
efficient car the size and horsepower we are seeking would never tow
5,000 pounds so putting the larger Class III 5,000 pound-rated hitch
on a new 4-cylinder Kia, Nissan, etc. would simply be overkill and
useless since the vehicle would never tow anything over a Class II
rating of 2,000 pounds anyway.
Now if we do decide to move up to a larger, heavier trailer in the
future, we certainly won't be thinking of pulling it with our little
sub-compact. At that time, we would be in the market for a heftier
towing vehicle and would then go with the Class III hitch to match
that vehicle while using our subcompact for non-RV driving.
So back to the original idea. Does anyone have any experience with
towing a 1100-1500 pound camping trailer with a small 4-cylinder
subcompact or compact vehicle. If so, what specific displacement,
horsepower and/or model would you consider adequate for that SPECIFIC
application? I'm a little concerned if ANY 4-cylinder would handle a
tow weight of 1300#. There are some 1.5 liters out there that barely
generate 100 horsepower and those might be a little iffy.
So does any have SPECIFIC experience with towing a trailer UNDER 2000
pounds with a small 4-cylinder import or domestic. If so, what was
the model of car and the size of the engine? Thanks again.
Gil
Gil
Thanks, Hank, what Toyota model was it? I guess a boat and trailer
would have about the same frontal resistance as an Aliner unfolded.
I have not towed something like your Aliner but used to tow a canoe
trailer with camping gear and canoes with small cars. It get's
interesting. It's even more interesting with today's small vehicles
with no frame and very thin sheet metal making up most of the unibody.
That is why most of the compact/sub compacts are not rated for over
1000 lbs and for limited tow milage. About the only small vehicles
with a frame today are the small pickup trucks.
What kind of country are you towing through? Western mountains are a
lot harder than eastern. Desert starts out overheated. You get the
picture.
Here is a GM comment:
GM has determined that the towing capacity of the HHR with an
automatic
transmission to be 454 kg (1000 lb). This rating keeps the HHR
consistent with the majority of GM passenger cars which have a trailer
towing capacity of 454 kg (1000 lb). Towing a trailer with an HHR with
a standard transmission is not recommended. This is also consistent
with the towing recommendations for GM passenger cars.
The Pontiac Vibe is based on the Toyota Matrix and Toyota has
determined
that the towing capacity of its vehicle is 680 kg (1500 lb)
I found an everybody page for you at:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/towing-capacity/vehicle/towing-capacity-chart.htm
Just pick your maker.
The bottom line is you will find few choices. I would take a very
close look at a Ford Escape. YMMV. ;-)
BTW, one thing I learned here was that ability is only part of the
issue. Liability is the other. Don't get into an accident with an
overweight combination. It will almost always be your fault.
Diesel Rabbit, Chevy II, Pontiac T-1000, Nissan P/U. The problem is
the newest cars have been weight reduced to the point of near
structural failure. What we did in the past is no indicator of what
you can do today. GM has kissed off towing except for their trucks.
Most of the small SUV's and crossover's are not rated to tow. The
body/frame is too light. Ford and Subaru have some potential. There
are probably others but you need to do your homework:
Go here, pick yor brand and look at the models. See if anything
appeals to you:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/towing-capacity/vehicle/towing-capacity-chart.htm
Issues:
1. Legal Liability - your tow vehicle must be rated to tow the load
or you have a significant potential problem with the insurance
companies.
2. Class III hitch may be cheaper and more available than a two.
Accessories definitely are.
Welcome to the world of tow vehicles. Complex and interesting but not
sub compact. ;-)
I pull my 1400 lb boat with a 2002 Rav4, wich is the manufactures rated tow
limit. Have done so for 3 years without problems. If you go camping, you can
remove rear seats from Rav4 for extra cargo space.
--
Frank Howell
Thanks. We've looked at the 2010 Kia Sportage which advertises a
towing capacity of 2,000 with trailer brakes and 1,000 without. Also
the Kia Optima 4-dr sedan which advertises 2,000 both with the 2.7
liter V6 (194 hp) and the 2.4 liter 4 cylinder (175 hp). Both of
those hover around the $20,000 purchase price.
Another idea is the Toyota Tacoma pickup with the 2.7 liter 4 cylinder
(159 hp) although my wife would prefer a sedan since it would be her
car when we're not pulling the Aliner someplace. We'll also look into
the Ford Escape.
The question I keep asking myself is "where's my 1957 Chevy when I
need it?" LOL
Gil
> We've also been thinking about a new car to replace the old Taurus
> with 185,000 miles on it and are wondering what smaller, more fuel-
> efficient car we could buy that would pull that 1300 pound Aliner
> with
> no difficulty.
<http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/towing-capacity/vehicle/towing-capacity-chart.htm>
This site has already been suggested. Take the time to educate
yourself. Study the terms used and then study the towing capacity of
the vehicles in the chart that have been rated ACCORDING TO THE
MANUFACTURER you are interested in, not what some salesman tells you.
99% of salesmen don't know squat about towing.
Good camping off the ground! It's much better!
Tom J
--
Richard McBane
I am not sure of the model, but I can remember it was one of the least
expensive new standard pick-ups they had. Like others have said, it
had a frame.
Another consideration is that maybe you can use it, whatever you buy,
as a toad behind a motorhome later. But, this may not matter to you.
Hank
And you should look at the Ford Escape. You want some economy
and your wife wants a more conventional type vehicle. The Ford Escape
is highly rated and may be just the thing. We plan to have one of them
in
our future at some point.
I suggest you look at an Escape with the 2.5 I-4 Duratec Engine.That
2.5 Four Banger now is available with a 6 speed automatic and the
2 wheel drive version has a rating of 22 MPG City and 28 MPG Hwy.
That 2.5 makes 171 HP and 171 Ft. Pounds Torque. The 2.5 is rated
to tow 1500 pounds. If you go to the V-6 I think the rating is 3500#.
I would look for a low mile 1 or 2 year old one.
That same basic vehicle is also made by Mazda and called the
Mazda Tribute.
They are a mid sized SUV that is very utilitarian in my opinion.
I would NOT suggest any conventional sedans for this use.
Best of luck finding the right vehicle that fits your needs.
Jan Eric Orme
>
> I don't know if this will help, but I had a boat & trailer that
> weighed about 2500#. It towed great behind my toyota pick-up with
> plenty of power. The pick-up was a 2.2 liter 4cyl with a 5 speed
> stick. I don't know what the HP was. I would get about 18 mpg towing.
>
Sounds like a Hilux, I had one with the only engine available, the 2.2 as
well. They made about a hundred horses, give or take. I knew a man that
towed a double horse trailer (with horses) with his. The little trucks were
geared for a little bit of work, not high gas mileage. Horse power really
doesn't tell you much; the old Farmhall H tractors made about 12 1/2 horse
at the drawbar, but it was plenty for the time.
Personally, I wouldn't try to tow anything with a subcompact. Stick with the
Taurus, that's as small as I'd go.
I don't think it was the Hilux, but basically the same only a new
model.
Personally, I won't tow anything that weighs more than the vehicle
doing the towing.
Hank <~~~wants the upper hand in weight, at my hands
>Personally, I won't tow anything that weighs more than the vehicle
>doing the towing.
>Hank <~~~wants the upper hand in weight, at my hands
Ack!! My pickup weighs 6700lbs. My trailer weighs almost 8000.
My neighbor across the street has a truck like mine but it's a diesel and he
tows a 12,000 lb. 5th wheel.
Max (methinks you might have misspoken)
There are a few people towing something that weighs less than the tow
vehicle, but from what I see going down the highway, it's a very few!!
Look at all those 5th wheel RV's and all those 18 wheelers just for
starters. Every travel trailer I ever owned, when loaded as we
normally traveled, weighed more than our tow vehicle. Hey, when I hook
to my 5X8 utility trailer and load it to capacity, 3500#, it weighs
less than the truck, but is not near as safe because it has NO
BRAKES!!
Tom J
Of those mentioned, I would go with the Hyundai Santa Fe with a V6.
And here's MNSHO on 4 cylinders vs V6. If you're not accustomed to a 4 you
will find yourself "pushing" the 4 a little harder than you would a 6.
Acceleration and the ability to maintain freeway speeds are somewhat
compromised in a 4cyl. Lest I hear a protest from 4 cyl. owners let me
admit that there are several 4cyl vehicles out there that perform remarkably
well but only at the expense of good mileage which is, ostensibly, the
reason one buys a 4 cyl. vehicle. The net result is that, unless the owner
of a 4cyl. vehicle drives very conservatively, they won't get any better
mileage than the owner of the same type vehicle with a 6 cyl.
Max (but that's just my not so humble opinion)
The newer 4 cylindar beasts are also much stouter these days
and the car makers are combining them with new transmissions,
such as the Ford 6-speed, that take a bunch of the slack unless
you overdo the weight pulled.
If he was ever going to consider a heavier trailer I would agree
that a V-6 would be in order.
My opinion for this light application.
Jan
I didn't say it was unsafe or illegal to tow a bigger load. All the
semi's do it thousands of times a day without incident. It is just my
personal decision.
Hank <~~~over-compensates
I agree totally! We were shopping for a vehicle back in 2001. So we
went shopping. Since I was a big fan of Toyota, we tested the RAV4
first. It seemed to me that the RAV4 couldn't get out of its own way.
Very underpowered in MY opinion. We then tested others. We decided on
the Hyundai SanteFe AWD. We were a little skepticle because Hyundai
hadn't been in business long enough to establish a reputation. But, it
did have a 100K mile warranty. We bought one. Had it 5 years and gave
it to one of our neices, which still has it. The only problem we had
was a bad crankshaft positioning sensor, which was replaced under
warranty. No other problems.
For a change of pace, we bought a new Equinox AWD in 06. Not a bad
vehicle, just not as comfortable as the Santa Fe IMO. We will probably
go back to a Santa Fe in the near future.
Hank
My Jeep pickup had a 4 cylinder engine that was fairly peppy with a 4 speed
transmission. 20 MPG. I switched to the Dakota, V-6, auto tranny and
weighing over a thousand pounds more. 20 MPG and a lot more comfortable ride,
more cargo space and even a back seat.
LZ
That's the main reason I bought a 2002 Rav4. The redesigned vehical added an
additional 15 hp of power to it's engine.
--
Frank Howell
> That's the main reason I bought a 2002 Rav4. The redesigned vehical added an
> additional 15 hp of power to it's engine.
Cringe... to 'its' engine.
David "The can-only-stand-so-much Hamster" Malone
Picky little pet aren' ya? I didn't see you say anything about
"vehical" (vehicle). Are you a frustrated teacher? :-)
Hank <~~~has no writing skills either
> Picky little pet aren' ya?
Yep. That should be 'aren't ya?'
> I didn't see you say anything about
> "vehical" (vehicle).
I have no problem with bad spelling unless I can't figure out what
they meant.
> Are you a frustrated teacher? :-)
Nope. But "it's" versus "its" is one of my... um... pet peeves.
What did you decide to do with that Pechauer?
David "The nitpicking Hamster" Malone
"pet peeves".......LMAO
I guess I am going to keep it for a while longer. I haven't totally
decided what to do. I'm in no hurry, I just hate seeing it sit there
not being used.
Hank <~~~flunked grammer school
Damn! Looking at it now, I'm cringen(sic) two(both at it's and vehical).
--
Frank Howell
Frank, this is a tough crowd to please.
Hank <~~~doesn't do stand-up
Had a 2001 GMC Sonoma 4-cyl 2.2L 5-speed which was rated to tow 1900
pounds. Have no doubt it would. I never towed with it.
The same truck with automatic was rated to tow 4,000 pounds. I think the
primary difference was that the manual was geared like a car, not like a
real truck, so 1st was too high to start a 4,000 pound trailer moving
without excessive clutch wear.
At 65 MPH the Sonoma would get 27 MPG, or 24 MPG with the A/C on. That
would drop to 22 MPG at 70 MPH. Didnt seem to matter if it had 700
pounds of dirtbikes and gear in the back or not.
I did haul a Honda GL1800 Goldwing (over 800 pounds) from NC on I-40 and
I-75 in TN. I wasn't interested in spinning the engine as hard as it
would run so I crawled up the hills in the right lane with the semi
trucks. Some of those were faster than I was.
> I guess I am going to keep it for a while longer. I haven't totally
> decided what to do. I'm in no hurry, I just hate seeing it sit there
> not being used.
I think you should keep it - the pool addiction thing is cyclical. One
of these days you'll likely get that urge to play again and regret
getting rid of a cue that has some fond memories attached to it.
By the way, I have a wrapless Pechauer Pro my wife uses sometimes.
It's very well built and solid - but has too much squirt compared to
my Layanis. It takes me a few days to adjust to it and another few
days to adjust back - so I play with the Layanis only these days.
Wanna buy it? I'll give you a great deal - maybe yours is lonely and
just needs a companion? :-)
David "The Hamster" Malone
We already have an older Ford Taurus that's rated to tow 1250 pounds.
It has a 3.0 liter V6 and 4-speed AT but it's also a little long in
the tooth...over 100, 000 on the odometer.
What I plan to do is install a heavy duty high performance auxiliary
transmission oil cooler on it, service the tranny and replace with all
synthetic fluid and attach a Class I receiver hitch to the back that's
rated to tow 2,000 pounds...the Aliner Scout weighs in at 1174# dry
and probably about 1300# with items we carry in it (just a portable 2-
burner Coleman propane stove, two 5-gallon jugs of water, a few pots
and pans, silverware and some food).
Yes, I realize that's pushing the 1250 # tow rating of the Taurus but
figured we give it a try, take off and drive slowly and not more than
say 100 miles at any one time and let the brake controller and the
trailer's electric brakes help in the stopping.
If the tranny on the Taurus burns to a crisp, oh well, it's served its
time, and has fulfilled its $450 trade-in value on a new rig. If,
however, the extra cooler, the synthetic fluid and my very careful;
driving habits allow us to use it for the purpose of getting to our
campsite, well then we've saved about $20,000 bucks.
Gil
Unless you are towing in the mountains I don't think you will have
trouble. I would look into a temp guage for the transmission as long
as you are going to mess around. Probably would do that before
adding the cooler just to see what is happening.
I would be interested in learning what you/they attach the hitch to. IIRC,
the Taurus is built on a body-frame; there is no (substantial) separate
frame.
Max
Doesn't sound like a practical solution to me. I'd look for an old Ford,
Mercury or Lincoln that can still tow 5,000 lbs and are comfortable. Esposa's
'95 Town car is built like a tank, rides well, gets good mileage and can tow a
heavy load. Hers only has 64K miles on it and looks like new. There are
others out there and they are not expensive. Google is how I found hers.
LZ
>
> I would be interested in learning what you/they attach the hitch to.
> IIRC, the Taurus is built on a body-frame; there is no (substantial)
> separate frame.
>
> Max
Probably mounted to the bumper. I had an early Taurus (88) that I had a
class II hitch installed. I pulled a Starcraft popup that weighed about
1,000 lbs and it worked well...Still got 26 mpg with it. Engine power wasn't
an issue, stopping was. Going *down* mountains could be hairy. The automatic
tranny had only two forward positions; D and L. In drive the vehicle was
basically free wheeling and in low the vehicle would creep at about 10 miles
per hour. The first time I drove down a 10 mile pass, I over heated the
front brakes causing the brake fluid to boil and the brakes to stick on. I
learned to never "ride" the brakes but to pump them every 15 seconds or so,
controlling my downhill speed. After learning this, I had no further towing
issues with regular summer trips from Minnesota to the Rockies and the Black
Hills. It wasn't an ideal tow combination, but it was all I could afford and
it worked.
Strong points where the bumpers attach. It's usually a bolt on to
existing holes in the subframe. I've done a couple.
Yes, the hitch we're getting from U-Haul bolts into holes in the frame
at back underneath (vertically).
Also, we're getting a brake controller since the Aliner Scout is
outfitted with electric brakes so that should take care of the
"stopping problem" mentioned earlier.
Finally, as I mentioned earlier, I've installed an auxiliary
transmission oil cooler, serviced the tranny and filled it with
Valvoline synthetic AT fluid which should allow it to operate cooler.
Despite the feelings of the poster who said it "didn't sound like a
practical solution" to him, I think it's a great way to keep the car
the wife likes to drive and to have something to occasionally tow the
Aliner to the lake campground every few weeks or so---and to save
having to buy another tow vehicle. For the hitch and other
modifications to prepare the Taurus to tow, I'm only out about $250
and a little labor...big deal. I consider that a pretty good "bang
for the buck."
Gil
http://www.aemfg.com/pdfs/BX2619.pdf
Steve
www.wolfswords.com under the motorhome link
>On May 7, 5:03�am, nothermark <notherm...@not.here> wrote:
very good.
Uh, I don't think he will need that. He is towing the Aliner with the
Taurus not the other way around. ;-) Good page though.