OT - Campaign Finance Reform
Fred in AZ¤
successful legislation.........the first piece of meaningful campaign finance
reform legislation since the late 1970's.
The Shays-Meehan campaign finance reform bill is scheduled for a vote on
Wednesday, February 13. In addition to banning soft money, the bill
strengthens other campaign finance laws making it more difficult for special
interest to hide behind sham issue ads and skew the political climate during
elections.
Senator McCain wants you to know that those who oppose reform are determined
to stop the Shays-Meehan legislation, amend it to death or replace it with a
bogus alternative - the Ney Bill. But, we are not going to miss this
historic opportunity for change. Please help us by using your email and
faxes to get the message to some wavering members that now is the time or
courage. It's time for the House of Representatives to put the country’s
interest ahead of their own political interest.
Below are a list of House Members that need to hear that we need their
support on both passage of Shays-Meehan and fending off poison pill
amendments. Please phone or fax each one with that message. Thanks for
your continued support and commitment.
· Congressman Bud Cramer (D- AL) - (202) 225-4801 - (202) 225-4392 fax
· Congressman Mike Ross (D-AR) - (202) 225-3772 - (202) 225-1314 fax
· Congressman Elton Gallegy (R-CA) - (202) 225-5811 - (202) 225-1100 fax
· Congressman Doug Ose (R- CA) - (202) 225-5716 - (202) 226-1298 fax
· Congressman Timothy Johnson (R-IL) - (202) 225-2371 - (202) 226-0791 fax
· Congressman John Shimkus (R-IL) - (202) 225-5271 - (202) 225-5880 fax
· Congressman Jim Barcia (D-MI) - (202) 225-8171 - (202) 225-2168 fax
· Congressman Fred Upton (R-MI) - (202) 225-3761- (202) 225-4986 fax
· Congressman Mark Kennedy (R-MN) - (202) 225-2331 - (202)225-6475 fax
· Congressman Ronnie Shows (D-MS) - (202) 225-5865 - (202) 225-5886 fax
· Congressman Mike Ferguson (R- NJ) - (202) 225-5361 - (202)225-9460 fax
· Congressman Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-NJ) - (202) 225-5034 - (202) 225-3186
fax
· Congressman Frank LoBiondo (R-NJ) - 202) 225-6572 - (202)225-3318 fax
· Congressman Jim Saxton (R-NJ) - (202) 225-4765 - (202) 225-0778 fax
· Congresswoman Sue Kelly (R-NY) - (202) 225-5441 - (202) 225-3289 fax
· Congressman John McHugh (R-NY) - (202)225-4611 - (202)226-0621 fax
· Congressman Jack Quinn (R-NY) - (202) 225-3306 - (202)226-0347 fax
· Congressman James Walsh (R-NY) - (202) 225-3701 - (202)225-4042 fax
· Congressman Paul Gillmor (R-OH) - (202) 225-6405 - (202)225-1985 fax
· Congressman Ralph Regula (R-OH) - (202) 225-3876 - (202)225-3059 fax
· Congressman Robert Brady - (D-PA) - (202) 225-4731 - (202) 225-0088 fax
· Congresswoman Melissa Hart (R-PA) - (202) 225-2565 - 226-2274 fax
· Congressman John Duncan (R-TN) - (202) 225-5435 - (202)225-6440 fax
· Congresswoman Shelly Moore Capito (R-WV) - (202) 225-2711 - (202) 225-7856
fax
Senator McCain will be on the following programs regarding the final House
vote on campaign finance reform legislation:
Tuesday, Feb. 12:
MSNBC "Hardball w/ Chris Matthews" at 7:00 p.m., ET
FOX "The O'Reilly Factor" at 8:00 p.m., ET
CNN "Larry King Live" at 9:00 p.m., ET
PBS "The Charlie Rose Show" at 11:00 p.m., ET
Wednesday, Feb. 13:
ABC "Good Morning America" at 7:00 a.m., ET
CBS "Early Show" LIVE at 7:00 a.m., ET
MSNBC "Imus in the Morning" LIVE at 8:07 a.m., ET
Ben C. Jones
--
Ben C. Jones
http://home.triad.rr.com/benjones/
"Fred in AZ¤" <strockft@earthlink¤.net> wrote in message
news:3c69976...@news.earthlink.net...
Lone Haranguer
Ignore it.
He only supports it because he thinks McCain walks on water.
Fred isn't smart enough to figure out that it will only get passed if it
has enough loopholes for those voting for it.
LZ
Fred in AZค
guy on an equal footing relative to the First Ammendment.........Campaign
Finance Reform will lower the bar and give *****every****** citizen
******equal******* access to his/her elected representatives at the Federal
level........NOT to those who "purchase" access and influence via hugh
political $$$$$$$CONTRIBUTIONS$$$$$$$!!!!
Fred in AZ
Fred in AZค
"standing in line" for political access like the majority of
folks????.........DAMN, small price to pay for freedom!!!
Fred in AZ
Lone Haranguer
they verboten? If not, the law is a joke.
LZ
Lone Haranguer
"Fred in AZ¤" wrote:
>
> Lou Zer.......what's the problem???.........the NRA will be reduced to
> "standing in line" for political access like the majority of
> folks????.........DAMN, small price to pay for freedom!!!
>
> Fred in AZ
Flintstone! Ask Barney if you can borrow his brain. Does the law
prohibit unions, corporations, media outlets, fraternal groups,
organizations from running their own ads? Can I as a private citizen
sponsor ads? Can the NRA send me money to take out ads?
Get back to us.
LZ
Fred in AZค
BTW, Republicans should be clamori9ng to pass Shay-Meehan.......when it comes
to "hard-money", Republicans traditionally outraise the Democrats 3::1
Semper Fidelis,
Fred in AZ
Fred in AZค
those ads within a prescribed time frome prior to election.........
It'll be a great start once this legislation is passed tomorrow!!!
Semper Fidelis,
Fred in AZ
Lone Haranguer
LZ
Lon VanOstran
>
> WRONG.....what Campaign Finance Reform will do, however, is put the "little
> guy on an equal footing relative to the First Ammendment.........Campaign
> Finance Reform will lower the bar and give *****every****** citizen
> ******equal******* access to his/her elected representatives at the Federal
> level........NOT to those who "purchase" access and influence via hugh
> political $$$$$$$CONTRIBUTIONS$$$$$$$!!!!
Horse pucky. What it does is silence the little guy. We can no long
speak through AARP, the NRA, or any other group. The rich bastards will
still be able to give as much as they ever have. The little guy LOSES
his only means of being heard, joining together with like minded
individuals to form a group large enough to make a difference. The press
will have MUCH more influence than now. The rich will have MUCH more
influence than now. The little guy will be PERMANENTLY and COMPLETELY
silenced, and idiots like Fred have helped them do it.
Lon
Lon VanOstran
>
> Lou Zer.......what's the problem???.........the NRA will be reduced to
> "standing in line" for political access like the majority of
> folks????.........DAMN, small price to pay for freedom!!!
>
> Fred in AZ
You freaking idiot. The NRA is made up of little guy who can't be heard
any other way.
Lon, who IS the NRA
Vince Wirth
>The rich bastards will still be able to give as much as they ever have.
Lon,
If this were the case would not the Republicans be FOR the bill?
The reason I say this is the majority of rich people are Republicans.
So-- Why is it that they are so set against it? Somehow it must hurt
them in some way. Because of their position, I wonder if that "Soft"
money comes to them more that the others. Think about it.
Vince
Bob Hatch
news:3c69c79e...@news.earthlink.net...
Vince, are you talking Republicans like the Kennedy's, Gore's, Lieberman's,
Turner's, Rather, Rosie O, most all of the Hollywood group? That bunch of
rich people?
--
bobh...@go.com is a throw away
email address. I do not check for mail
there, so will not respond.
Fred in AZค
you???
The way you want it is, apparently: one man, lots of vote!!
The way I read the Constitution........the current system of unlimited
so-called "soft money" derails the concept of "equal protection" and further
corupts the First Ammendment...........wasn't that the argument President
Bush's lawyers used with the Supreme Court to shut down the Florida SC
ruling???
Get a clue, Lon
Fred in AZ
Fred in AZค
Lon VanOstran <rv...@voyager.net> wrote:
It'll be a great day, Lon when the corupting influence of money can restore
integrity to OUR poitical processes and further reinforce the concept of
"equality" per the Constitution...........NO one man's voice is heard louder
than another's........isn't that one of the precepts of Thomas Payne's Common
Sense essays/lectures???.....ya know, some of the "basis" for OUR
Constitution!!
Vince Wirth
>Vince, are you talking Republicans like the Kennedy's, Gore's, Lieberman's,
>Turner's, Rather, Rosie O, most all of the Hollywood group?
Bob,
I was thinking of those that Lon was alluding to. He will have to tell you
who they are.
Vince
Hugh
snipped
> level........NOT to those who "purchase" access and influence via hugh
> political $$$$$$$CONTRIBUTIONS$$$$$$$!!!!
>
> Fred in AZ
Damnit Fred, I don't contribute to political parties. <vbg>
Hugh
Lone Haranguer
Freddie Flintstone! The shysters have already figured out all the ways
to get around this bill.
We had a bill before, remember? When IT was passed it was touted as
campaign finance reform.
The politicians broke it left and right. Those who broke it the most
(Democrats) screamed the loudest for new laws when they were caught.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
Your bridge prospectus is being sent FEDEX overnight service.
LZ
bill horne
>
> WRONG.....what Campaign Finance Reform will do, however, is put the "little
> guy on an equal footing relative to the First Ammendment.........Campaign
> Finance Reform will lower the bar and give *****every****** citizen
> ******equal******* access to his/her elected representatives at the Federal
> level........NOT to those who "purchase" access and influence via hugh
> political $$$$$$$CONTRIBUTIONS$$$$$$$!!!!
>
> Fred in AZ
I think your jump suit is way too small - or you've held your arms up
too long.
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
Lon VanOstran
Of course it will hurt RepublicanS. The press will control what the
people will hear and see. The press is overwhelmingly LIBERAL.
Lon
Lon VanOstran
It won't take away the money given by the corrupt rich. It will take
away the money given by GROUPS of little people.
Lon
Lon VanOstran
There are plenty of rich liberals like Bill Gates, and the "Hollywood
elite".
Lon
Glenn Arden
Campaign Finance Reform guarantees that the incumbent will not
have any opposition the last of the campaign and it gives the news media
all kinds of opportunities for promoting the candidate of their choice.
All media talk shows should be counted as a campaign contribution.
Â
Glenn Arden
Bob Thomas
news:3C69A123...@tabletoptelephone.com...
away with "soft" money, do away with the stupid restrictions on "hard"
money.
The Supreme Court has equated donations with free speech. Each of us should
have the right to donate as much as we want to any silly "cause" that
appeals to us, or get together with like minded people for the same purpose.
cheers
bob
Fred in AZค
BS, Lon..........ya know, FOX........"fair and balanced"!!!
BWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAA!!
Fred in AZ
Bob Hatch
>
> BS, Lon..........ya know, FOX........"fair and balanced"!!!
>
> BWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAA!!
>
> Fred in AZ
Suggest you buy and read the book "Bias" by Bernard Goldberg. It appears you
know little about Fox and the rest of the media.
Bob Hatch
news:3c6a4888$0$93061$2c3e...@news.voyager.net...
belong to. <GO>
Lone Haranguer
LZ
Fred in AZค
>"Fred in AZ¤" <strockft@earthlink¤.net> wrote in message
>>
>> BS, Lon..........ya know, FOX........"fair and balanced"!!!
>>
>> BWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAA!!
>>
>> Fred in AZ
>
>Suggest you buy and read the book "Bias" by Bernard Goldberg. It appears you
>know little about Fox and the rest of the media.
Bob...you must mean the book that should've be entitled "Whoa to me, life's
not fair"
Goldberg's ego is the problem.....his book reminds me of the right wiing
conspiracy VHS tape of 10 years ago......."Clinton Chronicles".....another
crock of shit.........and, WE, the taxpayers wasted $50 million plus trying to
chase that one down a hole!!
Semper Fidelis,
Fred in AZ
Lone Haranguer
Glenn Arden wrote: AKA Freddie Flintstone.
Shame on you Fred. For a Marine officer you are one dishonest creep.
LZ
Bob Hatch
>
life's
> not fair"
>
> Goldberg's ego is the problem.....
So, you have read it then? And you still think the press/media is not
liberal?
Other suggested reading:
10 Things you Can't Say In America by Larry Elder
Pick A Better Country by Ken Hamblin
Fred in AZค
USENET under any other alias.......has always been Fred in AZ........albeit in
95/96 I might have just used my email-address rather than the nickname......
Semper Fidelis,
Fred in AZ
R Lindberg / E Winnie
> "Lon VanOstran" <rv...@voyager.net> wrote in message
> news:3c6a4888$0$93061$2c3e...@news.voyager.net...
> >
> > elite".
> >
-more- you don't know what you are talking about.
Bill is a -major- contributor to the GOP.
Infact Bill's roots are GOP, his dad was chair of the State GOP, and his
mom was an GOP appointee to the U of Wash Board of Regents.
-----
Ralph Lindberg N7BSN <n7...@amsat.org> ICQ#5988954
RV and Camping FAQ <http://kendaco.telebyte.net/rlindber/rv/>
Cry bother and loose the Pooh's of War
Will Sill
on this subject, blissfully unaware that "campaign finance reform" is
a code phrase meaning approximately:
"Us politicians are getting sick of sheeple bitching about who buys
elections and we are going to try to make them think we are really
TRYING to clean up the mess while blaming it on (insert name of Other
Party), while at the same time making sure that OUR financial
supporters keep paying."
I agree with those who think nothing important will be done except to
further erode our freedoms and make it harder for us to know who is
REALLY buying elections.
Will Sill KD3XR
I try to be direct and taciturn. If that annoys you or
you came here to be insulted, you know what to do next.
Fred in AZค
conservative..........pick you poison..........Rather or Krystal......you're
choice........
Semper Fidelis,
Fred in AZ
Fred in AZค
opinion is that, ya have to start somewhere...........no doubt about it, the
current proposed legislation is not a "cure-all" or a panacea.........it's a
start and a step in the "right" direction........
In OUR form of governemt, if you're going to hold out for that "perfect and
just" legislation, you'll die from old age first!!
Semper Fidelis,
Fred in AZ
Bob Hatch
> Bob.....no doubt that the press can be liberal.......AND, it can be
> conservative..........pick you poison..........Rather or
Krystal......you're
> choice........
>
Did you read the book??
Pete Dumbleton
I've noticed a strange thing -- When some Conservatives looks at
things, esp like the Media, Hollywood, National ID Card, etc., they
seem to be biased towards Liberals, yet when some Liberals look at the
same things, they seem to be biased towards Conservatives. Could it
be that the parts of these things that irritate become greater in our
conciousness than the things we agree with? (Kinda like Management By
Exception or Squeaking Wheel Gets Grease) And of course we ascribe
the bad parts to the opposing POV.
Pete
Lone Haranguer
Bob Hatch wrote:
>
> "Fred in AZค" <strockft@earthlinkค.net> wrote in message
Does it have pictures Fred can color in? Those are the only kind he
buys.
LZ
Josh Dougherty
"The press" is owned and controlled by six huge multi-billion dollar
corporations. Their interests are *conservative*. Who controls what
"the press" ultimately does, the liberal reporter or the conservative
CEO who pays the liberal reporter?
Josh
Bob Hatch
>
> "The press" is owned and controlled by six huge multi-billion dollar
> corporations. Their interests are *conservative*. Who controls what
> "the press" ultimately does, the liberal reporter or the conservative
> CEO who pays the liberal reporter?
>
> Josh
Another person blinded by his own bias. You too need to buy and read the
book "Bias" by Bernard Goldberg.
Your post shows how little you know about reality.
Lone Haranguer
"Fred in AZ¤" wrote:
>
> LouZer........put up or shut up!!!..........I have never posted anywhere on
> USENET under any other alias.......has always been Fred in AZ........albeit in
> 95/96 I might have just used my email-address rather than the nickname......
>
> Semper Fidelis,
>
> Fred in AZ
Gee, did I get your goat Freddie? YOU don't seem to mind making
accusations that are completely unfounded, like your recent post about
my activities on some pervert newsgroup.
I find it quite strange that a total unknown posts your entire spiel
without adding anything or using a reply to do so. It seems this
happens quite often with your posts as if you need invisible allies to
support your points of view.
The same thing has happened on other newsgroups as you well know,
resulting in a credibility quotient in the negative range. We're on to
you Freddie.
LZ
R Lindberg / E Winnie
> "The press" is owned and controlled by six huge multi-billion dollar
> corporations. Their interests are *conservative*. Who controls what
> "the press" ultimately does, the liberal reporter or the conservative
> CEO who pays the liberal reporter?
>
Excellent point, however..
I recently heard an interview with an author about his book on the
media. His point was that the major media is more liberal then
conservative.
BUT
What they are, above is, is EGO DRIVEN. When it comes to a story, that
will give them air-time/head-lines/etc, they don't care -who- they are
feeding off. Look at the feeding frenzy during the various Clinton
scandals, or Congressmen Condut, or...
His next point is, they don't think they are liberal, they think they
are moderate, because they have similar views to all their friends.
His final point is, the owners don't -care- about agenda, being good
business people all they care about is PROFIT.
Remember when CNN was the conservative darling? Now that they are more
worried about profit then agenda, well...
While Fox is trying to carve out a market by catering to the
conservatives, of course if they don't make enough money, they will drop
that it
Remember, the primary drives of the Media is EGO and PROFIT
R Lindberg / E Winnie
> > "The press" is owned and controlled by six huge multi-billion dollar
> > corporations. Their interests are *conservative*. Who controls what
> > "the press" ultimately does, the liberal reporter or the conservative
> > CEO who pays the liberal reporter?
> >
> > Josh
>
> Another person blinded by his own bias. You too need to buy and read the
> book "Bias" by Bernard Goldberg.
>
> Your post shows how little you know about reality.
> --
Pot/Kettle=Black
Bob Hatch
> > Another person blinded by his own bias. You too need to buy and read the
> > book "Bias" by Bernard Goldberg.
> >
> > Your post shows how little you know about reality.
> > --
> Pot/Kettle=Black
>
Oh really. Care to enlighten?
HHamp5246
jbd...@hotmail.com (Josh Dougherty) writes:
>"The press" is owned and controlled by six huge multi-billion dollar
>corporations. Their interests are *conservative*. Who controls what
>"the press" ultimately does, the liberal reporter or the conservative
>CEO who pays the liberal reporter?
Speaking of the press...........
1. The Wall Street Journal is read by the people who run the
country.
2. The New York Times is read by people who think they run
the country.
3. The Washington Post is read by people who think they should
run the country.
4. USA Today is read by people who think they ought to run the
country but don't really understand the Washington Post. They do,
however, like their smog statistics shown in pie charts.
5. The Los Angeles Times is read by people who wouldn't mind
running the country, if they could spare the time, and if they
didn't have to leave L.A. to do it.
6. The Boston Globe is read by people whose parents used to run the
country and they did a far superior job of it, thank you very much.
7. The New York Daily News is read by people who aren't too sure
who's running the country, and don't really care as long as they can
get a seat on the train.
8. The New York Post is read by people who don't care who's
running the country either, as long as they do something really
scandalous, preferably while intoxicated.
9. The San Francisco Chronicle is read by people who aren't sure
there is a country, or that anyone is running it; but whoever
it is, they oppose all that they stand for. There are occasional exceptions
if the leaders are handicapped, minority, feministic, atheist dwarfs,
who also happen to be illegal aliens from ANY country or galaxy as long as
they are Democrats.
10. The Miami Herald is read by people who are running another
country, but need the baseball scores.
bill horne
No. Studies have shown that the major media do, in fact, lean left. If
you can show me some studies that indicate that the major media lean
right, or even truck down the middle, I'll show you mine. I'm tired of
doing all the work, and all I've found in the past is simple denial of a
left lean by those of the left.
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
bill horne
>
> Bob.....no doubt that the press can be liberal.......AND, it can be
> conservative..........pick you poison..........Rather or Krystal......you're
> choice........
>
> Semper Fidelis,
>
> Fred in AZ
Translation: "No, I haven't read it, but I believe what the liberal
reviewers tell me about the author."
>
> "Bob Hatch" <bobh...@go.com> wrote:
>
> >"Fred in AZ¤" <strockft@earthlink¤.net> wrote in message
> >>
> >> Bob...you must mean the book that should've be entitled "Whoa to me,
> >life's
> >> not fair"
> >>
> >> Goldberg's ego is the problem.....
> >
> >So, you have read it then? And you still think the press/media is not
> >liberal?
> >
> >Other suggested reading:
> >
> >10 Things you Can't Say In America by Larry Elder
> >
> >Pick A Better Country by Ken Hamblin
> >
> >--
> >bobh...@go.com is a throw away
> >email address. I do not check for mail
> >there, so will not respond.
> >
> >
Bob Hatch
news:3C6ADCE3...@rye.net...
In response to my question regarding have you read the book "Bias"
"Fred in AZ¤" wrote:
>
> Bob.....no doubt that the press can be liberal.......AND, it can be
> conservative..........pick you poison..........Rather or
Krystal......you're
> choice........
>
> Semper Fidelis,
>
> Fred in AZ
Then Bill Horne wrote:
>Translation: "No, I haven't read it, but I believe what the >liberal
>reviewers tell me about the author."
To which I add this further translation:
"And I have no intention on reading something written by a Democrat pointing
out that the media leans left, because that would challenge my liberal
thought process."
Bob Hatch
news:20020213161200...@mb-fe.aol.com...
Will Sill
>Will........I'm implicity "aware" and cognizant..........but, unlike you, my
>opinion is that, ya have to start somewhere...........no doubt about it, the
>current proposed legislation is not a "cure-all" or a panacea.........it's a
>start and a step in the "right" direction........
Your opinion differs from mine - IMO it's a step in the WRONG
direction. Campaign financing will never be "clean" as long as rich
people are willing to spend big $$$ to get "their" candidate elected.
Making it harder for little people to influence the process doesn't
appeal to me!
Lone Haranguer
Hee hee!
LZ
Blue
"Fred in AZ¤" <strockft@earthlink¤.net> wrote in message
> We're nearing the finish line of the arduous journey for this soon to be
> successful legislation.........the first piece of meaningful campaign
finance
> reform legislation since the late 1970's.
>
> The Shays-Meehan campaign finance reform bill is scheduled for a vote on
Will the legislation attempt to stop out-of-state money from being used by a
candidate. Don't think laws can really DO anything but it's entertaining
when they try.
Blue
Lon VanOstran
> Bob...you must mean the book that should've be entitled "Whoa to me, life's
> not fair"
>
> Goldberg's ego is the problem.....his book reminds me of the right wiing
> conspiracy VHS tape of 10 years ago......."Clinton Chronicles".....another
> crock of shit.........and, WE, the taxpayers wasted $50 million plus trying to
> chase that one down a hole!!
>
> Semper Fidelis,
It wasn't wasted, Fred. Clinton was neutered, Hillary was stopped in her
tracks with the health care debacle, and the world now recognizes the
amorality of the left.
The Democrats will live for years with the scars of supporting
anklepants.
Lon
Lon VanOstran
>
> > "Lon VanOstran" <rv...@voyager.net> wrote in message
> > news:3c6a4888$0$93061$2c3e...@news.voyager.net...
> > >
> > > There are plenty of rich liberals like Bill Gates, and the "Hollywood
> > > elite".
> > >
> Lon, Bill Gates is no more a liberal then you are.
That is the most humiliating insult which has EVER been issued in my
direction, but I forgive you since it was made in ignorance.
>I suggest that once
> -more- you don't know what you are talking about.
> Bill is a -major- contributor to the GOP.
> Infact Bill's roots are GOP, his dad was chair of the State GOP, and his
> mom was an GOP appointee to the U of Wash Board of Regents.
>
> -----
> Ralph Lindberg N7BSN <n7...@amsat.org> ICQ#5988954
> RV and Camping FAQ <http://kendaco.telebyte.net/rlindber/rv/>
> Cry bother and loose the Pooh's of War
Yep, Ralph. He is a republican, JUST LIKE YOU.
Check out the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, The Global Reporting
Initiative, The Coalition for Environmentally Responsible Economies, and
a few of the other REPUBLICAN (LOL) causes he supports. Don't forget his
continual fight for the advancement of gun control legislation.
Lon, who can live with not knowing anything according to Ralph, and who
isn't in this lifetime going to consider ANY gungrabber to be
conservative.
Chris Bryant
>"Fred in AZ¤" wrote:
<<..>>
>> Goldberg's ego is the problem.....his book reminds me of the right wiing
>> conspiracy VHS tape of 10 years ago......."Clinton Chronicles".....another
>> crock of shit.........and, WE, the taxpayers wasted $50 million plus trying to
>> chase that one down a hole!!
<<..>>
>It wasn't wasted, Fred. Clinton was neutered, Hillary was stopped in her
>tracks with the health care debacle, and the world now recognizes the
>amorality of the left.
The trouble with that synopsis is that 1- the only thing that
"neutered" Clinton was Monica gate- which IMHO was much ado about
nothing- the things that really *could* have been impeachable offenses
were never brought up, simply because the GOP has enough skeletons in
the closet to preclude it (the China connection among other things)-
and as far as Hillary's health care plan- I don't know if you've
checked lately, but due to *any* initiative being squashed by the GOP,
health care is in dire straights in this country.
>The Democrats will live for years with the scars of supporting
>anklepants.
I have a premonition that in another couple of years, the GOP
will be living with scars for supporting junior. The Enron thing is
not going to go away- the fallout from that is going to be people
realizing that big business *doesn't* have our best interests in mind,
and doesn't really care about anything but making money- clean or
dirty.
The second GOP scar is going to come from Dad whispering in
Jr's ear "Get that SOB Sadam- he cost me the election"- and Jr getting
us embroiled in an escalation of our Orwellian war- with no
provocation other than they are an "axis of evil".
I truly pray I am wrong, but the rhetoric out of the White
House is getting increasingly scary (plus the fact that the best,
IMHO, person the WH has- Powell- is apparently persona non grata now).
--
Chris Bryant
Bryant RV Services- http://www.bryantrv.com
Lon VanOstran
Of course, Pete. We HAVE to blame it on someone. <G> Besides, how much
fun could we have if all we ever talk about is RVs and how much we love
one another?
Lon, who is going to miss the fun for a few days.
bill horne
You might want to reevaluate that one. Here are some things Gore said
yesterday:
On "the axis of evil":
----------------------------------------
Speaking at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, Gore embraced
President Bush's controversial description of Iraq, Iran and North Korea
as an "axis of evil."
----------------------------------------
"embraced"
On Iraq in particular:
---------------------------------------------
The United States must deal with the threat of Iraq "on our terms," he
said.
That means U.S. strategy must be mindful of the survival of Pakistan's
leader, avoid an escalation of Middle East violence and protect the
security and interest of allies like Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the Gulf
states.
Gore said that once a strategy for Iraq is developed, "we must be
prepared to go the limit."
----------------------------------------------
That's about what the current administration has been saying since
September, isn't it? Yes. Did we screw around in Afghanistan? No. We
went to "the limit". Do you have doubts that Bush will take Gore's
"advice", and develop a strategy for Iraq, and then go to the limit?
Apparently you don't, since it scares you that Jr will listen to Daddy,
and go to the limit. Does Gore scare you too - when he says the same
thing?
On the war on terrorism:
----------------------------------------------
Gore said a long view of the fight against terror is essential.
----------------------------------------------
Isn't that what Bush told us in Sept, and frequently since then? Not
very original on Gore's part.
On Korea:
---------------------------------------------
He said the United States needs to keep the peace on the Korean
peninsula by being ready for war.
He said that in the 1990s, the Clinton administration showed "that a
creative, sustained program could help move the North Korean regime in
new directions."
--------------------------------------------
"ready for war"
Well...yeah. Novel idea, Al.
Here's the article:
http://www.nandotimes.com/nation/v-text/story/250148p-2357210c.html
Except for a few lefthanded swipes, most of the article could have been
about Bush, whom you affectionately know as Jr - instead of about Gore,
whom I affectionately know as The Guy Who Will Say Anything That Fits
His Personal Agenda.
> I truly pray I am wrong, but the rhetoric out of the White
> House is getting increasingly scary (plus the fact that the best,
> IMHO, person the WH has- Powell- is apparently persona non grata now).
> --
> Chris Bryant
> Bryant RV Services- http://www.bryantrv.com
Deano
"Bob Hatch" <bobh...@go.com> wrote in message
news:a4ealf$1eel4m$1...@ID-85448.news.dfncis.de...
> "Josh Dougherty" <jbd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> Another person blinded by his own bias. You too need to buy and read the
> book "Bias" by Bernard Goldberg.
>
> Your post shows how little you know about reality.
> --
> bobh...@go.com is a throw away
> email address. I do not check for mail
> there, so will not respond.
Hi Bob, I haven't read the book and don't plan on it, I've heard the spin
from both
sides and I think it's a lot to do about nothing. Everybody has some kind of
bias,
well maybe except you. BUT, since you have read the book, maybe you could
answer this, did Goldberg make any claims that Dan Rather allowed his own
political bias to influence his newscasts? Not a trick question. Any
specific
examples of this in his book?
Deano
Deano
"R Lindberg / E Winnie" <rlin...@kendaco.telebyte.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.10.102021...@mail.telebyte.com...
> Remember when CNN was the conservative darling? Now that they are more
> worried about profit then agenda, well...
> While Fox is trying to carve out a market by catering to the
> conservatives, of course if they don't make enough money, they will drop
> that it
>
> Remember, the primary drives of the Media is EGO and PROFIT
Great point, I've heard recently that FOX News is experiencing some
financial problems now. Don't know how that will translate on the air
but perhaps some of their more recent anchor additions validates the
point you make. Rivera, Greta, etc.
Deano
Deano
> Yep, Ralph. He is a republican, JUST LIKE YOU.
> Check out the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, The Global Reporting
> Initiative, The Coalition for Environmentally Responsible Economies, and
> a few of the other REPUBLICAN (LOL) causes he supports. Don't forget his
> continual fight for the advancement of gun control legislation.
Ralph didn't say that Gates was a "good" republican like you. ((:-)
Deano
Deano
"Lone Haranguer" <esco...@tabletoptelephone.com> wrote in message
news:3C6A9020...@tabletoptelephone.com...
>
>
> Glenn Arden wrote: AKA Freddie Flintstone.
>
> Shame on you Fred. For a Marine officer you are one dishonest creep.
> LZ
Maybe you didn't read the very bottom of this rant, this isn't Freddy.
Another
false charge from the right.
Deano
Lon VanOstran
>
> strockft@earthlinkค.net (Fred in AZค) recently wrote these words:
I couldn't have said it better. In fact, I tried and missed.
Lon
Lon VanOstran
Chris,
Your liberal leanings are showing again. They aren't becoming to many of
us.
Lon
Bob Hatch
news:a4f3ma$1eoskl$1...@ID-62943.news.dfncis.de...
>
> Hi Bob, I haven't read the book and don't plan on it, I've heard the spin
> from both
> sides and I think it's a lot to do about nothing. Everybody has some kind
of
> bias,
> well maybe except you. BUT, since you have read the book, maybe you could
> answer this, did Goldberg make any claims that Dan Rather allowed his own
> political bias to influence his newscasts? Not a trick question. Any
> specific
> examples of this in his book?
>
I do not remember any specifics re Rather and don't know if I want to take
the time to look them up, except there is one point in the book where Dan is
asked what he thinks of the NY Times political leanings. His response was
that "It's middle of the road."
Will Sill
by readers here as one of the most helpful contributors on rv topics,
and I salute him for that.
However, I think I have figured out that he has devoted so much energy
to the rv business that he is a complete and utter dunce on political
issues.
As exhibit A, I present:
> 1- the only thing that
>"neutered" Clinton was Monica gate- which IMHO was much ado about
>nothing- the things that really *could* have been impeachable offenses
>were never brought up, simply because the GOP has enough skeletons in
>the closet to preclude it (the China connection among other things)-
The monumental ignorance responsible for those mis-statements of
facts can only be explained by living in a cave and ONLY reading the
LA Times.
>and as far as Hillary's health care plan- I don't know if you've
>checked lately, but due to *any* initiative being squashed by the GOP,
>health care is in dire straights in this country.
Health care is in trouble because of the GOP?
Lon wrote:
>>The Democrats will live for years with the scars of supporting
>>anklepants.
And Chris squeaks:
> I have a premonition that in another couple of years, the GOP
>will be living with scars for supporting junior. The Enron thing is
>not going to go away- the fallout from that is going to be people
>realizing that big business *doesn't* have our best interests in mind,
>and doesn't really care about anything but making money- clean or
>dirty.
Yes, if your only "thinking" is derived from the spin jobs of the
talking heads on liberal tv, you could start to believe that - if you
were not brainful enough to realize that Enron may have TRIED to get
administration favors but were turned down! Might as well blame the
GOP for the failure of Joe's Bar & Grill!
> The second GOP scar is going to come from Dad whispering in
>Jr's ear "Get that SOB Sadam- he cost me the election"- and Jr getting
>us embroiled in an escalation of our Orwellian war- with no
>provocation other than they are an "axis of evil".
Chris, you are either the dumbest SOB south of the FL border, or as
deliberate a propagandist as James Carville. And that is no
compliment, turkey!
> I truly pray I am wrong, but the rhetoric out of the White
>House is getting increasingly scary (plus the fact that the best,
>IMHO, person the WH has- Powell- is apparently persona non grata now).
Thank Heaven you and Al Gore are not in charge now! You have such a
twisted conception of reality that you probably think campaign finance
reform is going to reduce vote buying!
PLEASE get back to rv subjects!
Will KD3XR
Before flaming - consider this: I post to help rv'ers, amuse
non-humor-impaired readers, and annoy morons. Since
you've already chosen a category, go ahead and take
your best shot.
Fred in AZค
Lon VanOstran <rv...@voyager.net> wrote:
>Will Sill wrote:
>>
>> strockft@earthlink¤.net (Fred in AZ¤) recently wrote these words:
Lon....again, get a clue!!
The NRA is an organization that WOULD NOT be precluded from running issue ads
60 days out from an election under Shay-Meehan........Why??.....because the
"soft money" rules would not apply.
Ya might try giving the legislation a "look"......or are you just another
lemming that believes everything that the Repulbican leadership that's about
to lose their "milktrain" and will have to win the next election by addressing
the "issues" important to the electorate!!
Lon.......since you're probably too ignorant to know where to look:
http://www.cfinst.org/eguide/update/index.html
- this URL gives ya the "up to the minute" on the ammendments.........ya
don't need it if your viewing the "thrashing" the naysayers are receiving on
the floor........CSPAN
Lon VanOstran
Often times, our disagreements here are on account of definitions.
Lon, who rejects many of Ralph's definitions while admiring the fact
that Deano is at least HONEST about that which he believes.
Lone Haranguer
Chris Bryant wrote:
>
> Lon VanOstran wrote:
>
> >"Fred in AZ¤" wrote:
> <<..>>
> >> Goldberg's ego is the problem.....his book reminds me of the right wiing
> >> conspiracy VHS tape of 10 years ago......."Clinton Chronicles".....another
> >> crock of shit.........and, WE, the taxpayers wasted $50 million plus trying to
> >> chase that one down a hole!!
> <<..>>
> >It wasn't wasted, Fred. Clinton was neutered, Hillary was stopped in her
> >tracks with the health care debacle, and the world now recognizes the
> >amorality of the left.
>
> The trouble with that synopsis is that 1- the only thing that
> "neutered" Clinton was Monica gate- which IMHO was much ado about
> nothing- the things that really *could* have been impeachable offenses
> were never brought up, simply because the GOP has enough skeletons in
> the closet to preclude it (the China connection among other things)-
The DNC is still sending out the "It was all about sex" talking points?
I thought that went belly-up a lonnnnnnggggg time ago.
> and as far as Hillary's health care plan- I don't know if you've
> checked lately, but due to *any* initiative being squashed by the GOP,
> health care is in dire straights in this country.
NOT as bad as it would be if Hillary's plan to Communize the system
would have made it.
You HAVE heard about what happened to the USSR and government taking
over private industries, haven't you?
>
> >The Democrats will live for years with the scars of supporting
> >anklepants.
>
> I have a premonition that in another couple of years, the GOP
> will be living with scars for supporting junior. The Enron thing is
> not going to go away- the fallout from that is going to be people
> realizing that big business *doesn't* have our best interests in mind,
> and doesn't really care about anything but making money- clean or
> dirty.
>
Ask Terry McCauliffe. He said that making big money (in his case
18,000%) was what capitalism was all about. In case you didn't know he
is head of the DNC. Enron may be small potatoes compared to Global
Crossing and the Democrats involvement.
The second GOP scar is going to come from Dad whispering in
> Jr's ear "Get that SOB Sadam- he cost me the election"-
Very childish observation. Pathetic, in fact.
and Jr getting
> us embroiled in an escalation of our Orwellian war-
What "Orwellian war". You been reading some Pinko newspaper again?
with no
> provocation other than they are an "axis of evil".
Right. Wait until they have nukes or nerve gas and attack us, THEN
retaliate.
I take it you had no relatives at the WTC.
> I truly pray I am wrong, but the rhetoric out of the White
> House is getting increasingly scary (plus the fact that the best,
> IMHO, person the WH has- Powell- is apparently persona non grata now).
You probably scare easy. Powell was appointed by the President. He
either follows the President's lead or he is gone. Just like MacArthur.
He gets paid to implement policy, not make it. He can advise and
suggest, not dictate.
LZ
bill horne
> Yes, if your only "thinking" is derived from the spin jobs of the
> talking heads on liberal tv, you could start to believe that - if you
> were not brainful enough to realize that Enron may have TRIED to get
> administration favors but were turned down! Might as well blame the
> GOP for the failure of Joe's Bar & Grill!
>
> Will KD3XR
Speaking of grills and cause and effect, an eatery here in town,
Priscilla's Palace, burned down yesterday afternoon. Since I never ate
there, and was out of town at the time, I'll probably get blamed for it.
ben hogland
> Chris,
> Your liberal leanings are showing again. They aren't becoming to many of
> us.
And you show your conservative leanings often.. They are not becoming to many of
us either.. So what's your point exactly?
Ben
>
> Lon
Lone Haranguer
Deano wrote:
>
> "Lone Haranguer" <esco...@tabletoptelephone.com> wrote in message
> news:3C6A9020...@tabletoptelephone.com...
> >
> >
> > Glenn Arden wrote: AKA Freddie Flintstone.
> >
> > Shame on you Fred. For a Marine officer you are one dishonest creep.
> > LZ
>
> Maybe you didn't read the very bottom of this rant, this isn't Freddy.
> Another
> false charge from the right.
>
> Deano
>
So why did the unknown poster repost Fred's entire rant without using
the reply format?
You're right, I didn't read to the end since the entire article was a
cut/paste job with no reply indications.
Very suspicious and Freddie's reputation is not the best. He has no
compunctions about making false charges about me and therefore gets the
same treatment.
LZ
Lone Haranguer
Bob Hatch wrote:
>
> "Deano" <happy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a4f3ma$1eoskl$1...@ID-62943.news.dfncis.de...
> >
> > Hi Bob, I haven't read the book and don't plan on it, I've heard the spin
> > from both
> > sides and I think it's a lot to do about nothing. Everybody has some kind
> of
> > bias,
> > well maybe except you. BUT, since you have read the book, maybe you could
> > answer this, did Goldberg make any claims that Dan Rather allowed his own
> > political bias to influence his newscasts? Not a trick question. Any
> > specific
> > examples of this in his book?
> >
> Too bad you have already decided not to read the book.
>
> I do not remember any specifics re Rather and don't know if I want to take
> the time to look them up, except there is one point in the book where Dan is
> asked what he thinks of the NY Times political leanings. His response was
> that "It's middle of the road."
>
Deano! Didn't you see Dan Rather on the O'Reilly show?
The fool is walking so far left he thinks Pol Pot was in the middle.
LZ
Deano
> Speaking of grills and cause and effect, an eatery here in town,
> Priscilla's Palace, burned down yesterday afternoon. Since I never ate
> there, and was out of town at the time, I'll probably get blamed for it.
> bill
> Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
Bill, you missed the point of Wills story, it's the GOP's fault! (LOL)
Deano
Deano
> Deano! Didn't you see Dan Rather on the O'Reilly show?
>
> The fool is walking so far left he thinks Pol Pot was in the middle.
> LZ
What specifically did he say that gave you that impression? Or was it
simply that he didn't carry that air of superiority that seems so common
with the right with media types such as O'Reilly and Limbaugh?
By the way, I'm not saying that Rather isn't a liberal anymore than you
can claim that O'Reilly isn't a conservative, but I don't think it makes a
hill of beans difference unless or until they start using thier media outlet
exclusively to promote thier own agenda. Everybody has an opinion,
that's what makes this country great, what would be scarier than hell
is if everyone agreed with everyone else on every single subject. There
would be no Ford or Chevy, only a "Dittomobile".
Deano
bill horne
> get some more.
Nope, but there're no peanuts right now. Well, there may be, but they're
not worth eating.
Lon VanOstran
I was just checking to see if he would RUN from his own liberalism the
way MOST liberals (like Ralph) do.
Lon
Chris Bryant
<<..>>
>Except for a few lefthanded swipes, most of the article could have been
>about Bush, whom you affectionately know as Jr - instead of about Gore,
>whom I affectionately know as The Guy Who Will Say Anything That Fits
>His Personal Agenda.
<<..>>
Yabut- that presupposes that I am a big Al Gore fan - which I
never have been.
I *do* apologize for the Jr. reference- he is the POTUS, and
deserves more respect than that (of course Clinton *is* the former
POTUS, but being a Democrat, I suppose he deserves no respect <g>).
Ralph Lindberg & Ellen Winnie
"Bob Hatch" <bobh...@go.com> wrote:
> "R Lindberg / E Winnie" <rlin...@kendaco.telebyte.com> wrote in message > >
> > > Another person blinded by his own bias. You too need to buy and read the
> > > book "Bias" by Bernard Goldberg.
> > >
> > > Your post shows how little you know about reality.
> > > --
> > Pot/Kettle=Black
> >
>
> Oh really. Care to enlighten?
>
You are not blinded by your own bias?
When did that change?
--
Ralph Lindberg personal email n7...@amsat.org
RV and Camping FAQ http://kendaco.telebyte.com/rlindber/rv
If Windows is the answer I would really like to know what the question is
Ralph Lindberg & Ellen Winnie
Lon VanOstran <rv...@voyager.net> wrote:
> R Lindberg / E Winnie wrote:
> >
> > > "Lon VanOstran" <rv...@voyager.net> wrote in message
> > > news:3c6a4888$0$93061$2c3e...@news.voyager.net...
> > > >
> > > > There are plenty of rich liberals like Bill Gates, and the "Hollywood
> > > > elite".
> > > >
> > Lon, Bill Gates is no more a liberal then you are.
>
> That is the most humiliating insult which has EVER been issued in my
> direction, but I forgive you since it was made in ignorance.
>
Lon, the only person showing their ignorance in this is -you-.
Claiming Bill Gates is a liberal shows that.
You assume he is a liberal because he choices to be philanthropic with
is personal money. While a true liberal is philanthropic with someone
else's money.
You assume that Bill's driving factor is money, it's not. It's
winning, being right and being the dominate player. His money is only a
by-product of this drive.
Will Sill
> I *do* apologize for the Jr. reference- he is the POTUS, and
>deserves more respect than that (of course Clinton *is* the former
>POTUS, but being a Democrat, I suppose he deserves no respect <g>).
An immoral lying bastard does NOT deserve respect, no matter what his
job. THe OFFICE deserves respect, and Clinton gave it the Finger.
Will KD3XR
Chris Bryant
<<I wrote>>
>
>> 1- the only thing that
>>"neutered" Clinton was Monica gate- which IMHO was much ado about
>>nothing- the things that really *could* have been impeachable offenses
>>were never brought up, simply because the GOP has enough skeletons in
>>the closet to preclude it (the China connection among other things)-
>
>The monumental ignorance responsible for those mis-statements of
>facts can only be explained by living in a cave and ONLY reading the
>LA Times.
Will- I was actually saying that I believe that Clinton had,
in fact, committed some truly impeachable offenses- of course dipping
his wick where it didn't belong and then lying about wasn't one of
them. But, one only has to know some history to realize that the
ChiCom influence in the white house has gone back through every
administration to Nixon- it isn't a liberal/conservative thing.
>
>>and as far as Hillary's health care plan- I don't know if you've
>>checked lately, but due to *any* initiative being squashed by the GOP,
>>health care is in dire straights in this country.
>
>Health care is in trouble because of the GOP?
Well, I suppose Hillary can be blamed for being so hated that
anything she put an effort in to would be stalled by the GOP- with no
effort at compromise.. so, I guess it is her fault.
(Note that while I do believe she is the most intelligent
first Lady the US has ever had, I believe that it is truly wrong that
she is a Senator from NY- carpetbagging at its worst).
>Lon wrote:
>
>>>The Democrats will live for years with the scars of supporting
>>>anklepants.
>
>And Chris squeaks:
>> I have a premonition that in another couple of years, the GOP
>>will be living with scars for supporting junior. The Enron thing is
>>not going to go away- the fallout from that is going to be people
>>realizing that big business *doesn't* have our best interests in mind,
>>and doesn't really care about anything but making money- clean or
>>dirty.
>
>Yes, if your only "thinking" is derived from the spin jobs of the
>talking heads on liberal tv, you could start to believe that - if you
>were not brainful enough to realize that Enron may have TRIED to get
>administration favors but were turned down! Might as well blame the
>GOP for the failure of Joe's Bar & Grill!
No- read what I wrote- IMHO the fallout is going to be that
these are the kinds of people who are in fact, making policy for the
US- people who are only interested in the bottom line for big
business.
>
>> The second GOP scar is going to come from Dad whispering in
>>Jr's ear "Get that SOB Sadam- he cost me the election"- and Jr getting
>>us embroiled in an escalation of our Orwellian war- with no
>>provocation other than they are an "axis of evil".
>
>Chris, you are either the dumbest SOB south of the FL border, or as
>deliberate a propagandist as James Carville. And that is no
>compliment, turkey!
The trouble is that *nothing* has changed since Desert Storm-
back then the mission wasn't to get Saddam, but now all of a sudden it
is.
>
>> I truly pray I am wrong, but the rhetoric out of the White
>>House is getting increasingly scary (plus the fact that the best,
>>IMHO, person the WH has- Powell- is apparently persona non grata now).
>
>Thank Heaven you and Al Gore are not in charge now! You have such a
>twisted conception of reality that you probably think campaign finance
>reform is going to reduce vote buying!
I suppose that saying the emperor has no clothes is twisting
reality, but... I find it rather amusing and somewhat frightening that
we are in an Orwellian war right now- one with a faceless enemy,
constant dire warnings- each one being on better intelligence than the
one before- "War is Peace".
I heard on <gasp> NPR last night that the largest terrorist
organization in the US is the ELF- domestic terrorists (and let me say
up front that I think they are a bunch of kooks- and they *are*
terrorists- even though they are... left wing...).
But- being home grown, this means that we cannot just look at
"durn furriners" now. Which means that the erosion of our personal
liberties and freedoms will continue- this time under the GOP reign.
But.. as I said before- I truly hope I am wrong.
R Lindberg / E Winnie
> one before- "War is Peace".
> I heard on <gasp> NPR last night that the largest terrorist
> organization in the US is the ELF- domestic terrorists (and let me say
> up front that I think they are a bunch of kooks- and they *are*
> terrorists- even though they are... left wing...).
>
I gota pass a story allong. The ELF types decided to destroy some tree's
(genetically altered) that they objected to being raised. They went to the
farm and started ripping things up.
Only it appears they couldn't tell the difference between the highbreed
poplars and raspberry canes. I would have thought good "green" people
would clue in that one as thorns and one doesn't.
I guess they were city type "greens", that had never raised any food for
themselves.
-----
Ralph Lindberg N7BSN <n7...@amsat.org> ICQ#5988954
RV and Camping FAQ <http://kendaco.telebyte.net/rlindber/rv/>
Cry bother and loose the Pooh's of War
Lone Haranguer
I wish I could remember "specifically" because it was mind boggling that
a man in his position could claim a "neutral" attitude.
You don't seem to grasp the difference between people like
O'Reilly/Limbaugh and Rather. Rather is a NEWS anchor. NEWS is
supposed to be what actually happens and free of bias.
O'Reilly/Limbaugh are ENTERTAINERS. People tune them in to be
entertained, they don't watch them to get news.
Got it?
LZ
bill horne
C'mon Chris, I didn't mention Clinton, and I hate to see you - of all
people - stooping to the simplistic and transparent tricks that dominate
arguments here.
But since you brought him up:
What do you think Clinton would have done if he had experienced 911 in
the first year of his first term?
Or, Who should have been POTUS - if not Gore - and what would he have
done?
Or, What would you have done if you had been POTUS?
It's easy to criticize and demean the person in the decision hot seat
when your own balls are not on the block, but much harder to present a
reasoned argument for or against decisions when - or as though - you
will have to personally suffer the consequences of a bad - or unpopular
- decision.
And don't forget that Bush got 'popular' Because he made those first
potentially dangerous and risky decisions - he didn't make those
decisions Because he was popular. He used - and continues to use - his
Presidential balls for what Presidential balls should be used for - that
which I think he sincerely thinks is in the best interests of the
country, and not for personal gratification - political or otherwise.
Chris Bryant
>Chris Bryant wrote:
>>
>> bill horne wrote:
>>
>> <<..>>
>> >Except for a few lefthanded swipes, most of the article could have been
>> >about Bush, whom you affectionately know as Jr - instead of about Gore,
>> >whom I affectionately know as The Guy Who Will Say Anything That Fits
>> >His Personal Agenda.
>> <<..>>
>> Yabut- that presupposes that I am a big Al Gore fan - which I
>> never have been.
>> I *do* apologize for the Jr. reference- he is the POTUS, and
>> deserves more respect than that (of course Clinton *is* the former
>> POTUS, but being a Democrat, I suppose he deserves no respect <g>).
>>
>> --
>> Chris Bryant
>
>C'mon Chris, I didn't mention Clinton, and I hate to see you - of all
>people - stooping to the simplistic and transparent tricks that dominate
>arguments here.
>
Sorry- I didn't realize I was doing that (and still do not
know how I am).
>But since you brought him up:
>
>What do you think Clinton would have done if he had experienced 911 in
>the first year of his first term?
>
Well- since my tachyon polarizer which enables me to sidestep
in to alternate universes is *still* waiting for parts- I don't know.
But.. if he was doing just what the current POTUS is doing, I would
still be worried about it- but I suspect I would have more company.
>Or, Who should have been POTUS - if not Gore - and what would he have
>done?
I have not seen a truly good and qualified candidate make it
out of the starting blocks in quite a while- we have been choosing the
lesser of two evils for some time now- which is why I do believe we
need some sort of campaign finance reform (whether the present bill is
the best one- I don't know- but at least it is something).
>
>Or, What would you have done if you had been POTUS?
If nominated, I will not run, if elected, I will not serve.
Honestly- I am not qualified to be the POTUS, but I can make a heck of
a good gadfly.
>It's easy to criticize and demean the person in the decision hot seat
>when your own balls are not on the block, but much harder to present a
>reasoned argument for or against decisions when - or as though - you
>will have to personally suffer the consequences of a bad - or unpopular
>- decision.
But- the decisions are all popular now- we were kicked in the
balls, and we struck back (and I believe rightly so- and have always
said so). But.. the esca;ation of the conflict to any one who doesn't
like us is going a bit far, IMHO.
>
>And don't forget that Bush got 'popular' Because he made those first
>potentially dangerous and risky decisions - he didn't make those
>decisions Because he was popular. He used - and continues to use - his
>Presidential balls for what Presidential balls should be used for - that
>which I think he sincerely thinks is in the best interests of the
>country, and not for personal gratification - political or otherwise.
I disagree with that to some extent- and if Iraq is such an
enemy, why did we *not* deal with them when we had the perfect
opportunity- nothing has changed as far as they are concerned.
I just find it rather amusing that we as a nation are selling
our freedoms out wholesale because of this mess- all for a little
non-existant security- and that the very people who would be howling
the loudest if a Democratic administration was doing exactly the same
thing are defending every decision.
But.. again.. I pray I am wrong about the whole mid-east
"thingy".
Lone Haranguer
I see where the "Axis of Evil" tag has caused Iran to suddenly round up
150 Taliban and Al Qaeda members. Think that would have happened
without that speech?
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall" was a statement the Liberals
laughed at too.
It's difficult to see well while wearing those rose-colored glasses.
LZ
ben hogland
"Lone Haranguer" <esco...@tabletoptelephone.com> wrote in message
news:3C6C479F...@tabletoptelephone.com...
>
> "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall" was a statement the Liberals
> laughed at too.
It was, LZ? That statement of yours could not be further from the truth.
Ben
Lone Haranguer
You must be joking. The Liberals made sport of everything that Reagan
did or said. They haven't stopped to this day.
LZ
ben hogland
--
--
Join the Pacific Northwest Campout in April! For info visit:
http://www.rvlover.net/pnwco3.htm
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"Lone Haranguer" <esco...@tabletoptelephone.com> wrote in message
news:3C6C71DA...@tabletoptelephone.com...
As I thought, you were just spouting off an unsubstantiated knee jerk comment
based on the bias in your mind..
Ben
Jynndi
>You must be joking. The Liberals made sport of everything that Reagan
>did or said. They haven't stopped to this day.
>LZ
I liked the anecdote where he shared with the world the final words of the
pilot and copilot of a WWII aircraft (out of radio range) that crashed with NO
survivors. 8--)
In reality it was a line from "Twelve O'clock High".
Digger, AKA Grumps (old and crusty)
hometown.aol.com/jynndi/myhomepage/profile.html
All errors; spilling, grimatical, ore tieping intenshunal.
Deano
> You must be joking. The Liberals made sport of everything that Reagan
> did or said. They haven't stopped to this day.
> LZ
I'm a liberal and I don't recall making fun of Reagan. Hell, I even voted
for
him, twice! I guess I'm just not a very good liberal in your eyes.
Deano
ben hogland
"Jynndi" <jyn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020214220038...@mb-ma.aol.com...
> >From: Lone Haranguer
>
> >You must be joking. The Liberals made sport of everything that Reagan
> >did or said. They haven't stopped to this day.
> >LZ
>
> I liked the anecdote where he shared with the world the final words of the
> pilot and copilot of a WWII aircraft (out of radio range) that crashed with
NO
> survivors. 8--)
>
> In reality it was a line from "Twelve O'clock High".
Now that's *IS* funny! HAHAHAHA..
Ben
Lone Haranguer
You need to visit other newsgroups. The liberals are still poking fun
at every Reagan utterance. They remain in denial that his obvious
resolve was one reason the USSR finally threw in the towel. Are you
going to break ranks with your colleagues at this late date?
LZ
Lone Haranguer
Jynndi wrote:
>
> >From: Lone Haranguer
>
> >You must be joking. The Liberals made sport of everything that Reagan
> >did or said. They haven't stopped to this day.
> >LZ
>
> I liked the anecdote where he shared with the world the final words of the
> pilot and copilot of a WWII aircraft (out of radio range) that crashed with NO
> survivors. 8--)
>
> In reality it was a line from "Twelve O'clock High".
>
So where is your proof the lost crew didn't say those words?
LZ
Lone Haranguer
Got any witnesses or are you a recent convert?
LZ
ben hogland
--
--
Join the Pacific Northwest Campout in April! For info visit:
http://www.rvlover.net/pnwco3.htm
--
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"Lone Haranguer" <esco...@tabletoptelephone.com> wrote in message
news:3C6C849D...@tabletoptelephone.com...
Huh? Are you going to continue spouting off this unsubstantiated knee jerk
comment? Don't bother, I believe that I know the answer.. This is just typical.
Since you seemed to have missed the point.. Here is *your* statement again along
with mine.
LZ wrote:
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall" was a statement the Liberals laughed at too.
Ben wrote:
It was, LZ? That statement of yours could not be further from the truth.
Now, LZ, which Liberals laughed? I didn't.. But maybe you can provide some
specific proof of your biased generalization. (I doubt it).
Ben
> LZ
Deano
> Got any witnesses or are you a recent convert?
> LZ
Nope, don't need any. I'm not trying to impress you or anybody here about
my political views, cept to say that your own bias is very telling. YOU are
the one that quickly pointed out before that not all conservatives think
alike,
news for ya bud, neither do liberals. We don't have a central authority
barking
out goose-stepping orders telling us what to think (believe it or not). We
aren't
"dittoheads".
By the way, as proof, simply look at our current Presidents polling numbers.
You don't think that those numbers are ALL conservatives do you?
Deano