Hensley/Pullrite type hitches: When are they necessary?
Stuart
Hopefully this doesn't spawn a huge debate, I'm mostly looking for a
consensus opinion, if such a thing exists. (The merits of each have
certainly been talked to death).
Assume the following: mid-size V8 SUV, wheelbase in the 116-120" range
(Tahoe, Expedition, etc .. but NOT Suburban, Excursion, not full size PU)
pulling a relatively short and light TT <3200 lbs, <22 ft. (Well within
spec, probably less than 60% for nearly all possible configs of those
vehiciles) Further assume twin axles on the trailer and factory Class IV
receiver hitches on the trucks.
Now the hitch salesmen will doubtlessly point out that any combination of
vehicle and trailer would be improved by either of these hitches. I don't
want to argue that.
But seriously, what's the consensus regarding the length and weight of
trailer that should be pulled by the above type of vehicles before one of
these "wonder hitches" starts becoming a "generally recommended" idea?
To tailor your answer, I'm inclined towards conservative, low stress towing.
The Pull-Rite would seem to radically reduce rear departure angle ground
clearance (does it?) -- a major liability if the vehicle also does even light
offroading. By way of example, with just a traditional receiver and ball,
even relatively mild trails require the removal of the piece that has the
ball to avoid whacking it into the dirt.
Can the thing be quickly removed (5 minutes or less) --- I'm gonna guess
"no".
The Hensley would cost a substantial portion of the trailer in the above
scenario ... .
What's the cutover point where a traditional stabilizer/equalizer solution
will have its hands too full given likely wind and occasional nasty traffic
"surprises"? Obviously there's no clear official answer, but is there a
consensus?
Again those that just sell stabilizer/equalizer solutions will be tempted to
say "never" but I'm looking for a practial viewpoint here.
Also, are there other whizzy solutions that are not a) as expensive as the
Hensley or b) ground clearance distruptive as the Pullrite that offer good
sway control?
Stuart
JOE NEAR
How tall is the trailer, does it have a relatively flat top and vertical sides?
Seems to me the most important cause of sway with the combinations you envision
will be crosswinds and passing trucks. The effects of these on the stability of
the combination will depend quite a bit on the area affected by the wind.
Joe Near
SCTF
>> Hensley or b) ground clearance distruptive as the Pullrite that offer good
>> sway control?
I brought this up earlier and was told that the Reese daul-cam hitch is a
cost-effective alternative, as is the Equalizer (name of company) hitch. Since
I know little of hitches, I can only give this as second hand info.
Eric R
Stuart Bobb
>Stuart:
>
>How tall is the trailer, does it have a relatively flat top and vertical sides?
The type of trailer under discussion would be typical TT height with flat
sides and a relatively flat top. The smaller, light ones being talked about
typically have their front sloped so its not like pushing a barn door through
the air.
My own prudence would argue for some kind controlling hitch. I guess I'm
trying to find out whether one has to consider the ground clearance
limitations of a Pullrite or the cost of Hensley, given the previously
described combinations.
At the moment, it's a theoretical discussion. A discussion about small
travel trailers got started and I got to thinking that the "costs" might be
quite a bit larger than expected because some fancy hitches might be prudent,
even on the vehicles in question.
Stuart
The problem statement repeated here (for other readers) is basically:
Does the following config call for a "wonder hitch" (Pullrite/Hensley)? Or
will traditional weight distibution and friction based sway controls carry
the day?
wi...@epix.net
<s...@ANTISPAMfc.hp.com> writes:
> But seriously, what's the consensus . . . I'm inclined towards
>conservative, low stress towing.
Stu, make up your mind. Do you want a consensus or good advice?
The "consensus" (however you wish to define it) is probably "We don't
need no fancy hitch". But that is bad advice, particularly if you
insist on going against good advice by using a short wheelbase tow
vehicle.
If you want low stress towing, you must have a long-wheelbase tow
vehicle and a trailer that is well under the rated max weight.
connected with a PullRite or Hensley hitch. Anything less is a
compromise with your "low stress" criteria.
If you feel you can't afford or don't like one of those, resign
yourself to a band-aid "sway control" and some white-knuckle driving
with a greater-than-necessary risk of crashing.
Will KD3XR
Jeffrey M Boyer
Stuart wrote:
> Assume the following: mid-size V8 SUV, wheelbase in the 116-120" range
> (Tahoe, Expedition, etc .. but NOT Suburban, Excursion, not full size PU)
> pulling a relatively short and light TT <3200 lbs, <22 ft. (Well within
> spec, probably less than 60% for nearly all possible configs of those
> vehiciles) Further assume twin axles on the trailer and factory Class IV
> receiver hitches on the trucks.
>
> Now the hitch salesmen will doubtlessly point out that any combination of
> vehicle and trailer would be improved by either of these hitches. I don't
> want to argue that.
Usually RV dealers try to sell you what they carry, which is typically NOT a
PullRite or Hensley.
> But seriously, what's the consensus regarding the length and weight of
> trailer that should be pulled by the above type of vehicles before one of
> these "wonder hitches" starts becoming a "generally recommended" idea?
>
Most will agree that SUVs tend to be shorter wheelbase/longer overhang and that
told make them less desirable as tow vehicles than long WB/short overhang ones as
say a full size van.
To tailor your answer, I'm inclined towards conservative, low stress towing.
There's your answer! I wanted to enjoy the trip, not be thankful when we arrived.
While in many cases a properly setup "standard type" sway control hitch may do as
it claims, I use and can attest to the tremendous amount of control and
confidence the Hensley hitch provides. While I would never intentionally drive
like this setup was a Ferrari, I have had to do emergency manuevers and I NEVER
felt that I was not in control, barring the fact that I couldn't control the
other driver's stupidity that led to this in the frist place! This was well worth
the "price of admission" for my family.
> The Pull-Rite would seem to radically reduce rear departure angle ground
> clearance (does it?) -- a major liability if the vehicle also does even light
> offroading. By way of example, with just a traditional receiver and ball,
> even relatively mild trails require the removal of the piece that has the
> ball to avoid whacking it into the dirt.
Don't know...
> Can the thing be quickly removed (5 minutes or less) --- I'm gonna guess
> "no".
>
No, but I routinely remove my Hensley for storage purposes each year. CG tractor
needs to get at the ball hitch on the TT. It takes me about 20 minutes to
leisurely drop it. My advice is to label all parts as to whether they are street
or curb side and take pictures of how your electrical pigtail is routed etc.
> The Hensley would cost a substantial portion of the trailer in the above
> scenario ... .
>
But the Hensley allows you to change tow vehicles and/or TTs without buying a new
one. I believe each PullRite is made for a specific vehicle and may require
tailpipe mods. The Hensley uses a bar that is available in different drops to
accomodate different setups and they offer a free trade for the cost of S+H.
Pretty good deal I think.
>
> What's the cutover point where a traditional stabilizer/equalizer solution
> will have its hands too full given likely wind and occasional nasty traffic
> "surprises"? Obviously there's no clear official answer, but is there a
> consensus?
I researched our hitch choice actually more than the TT purchase!We decided to
plunk the $$ for the Hensley. If it was half as good as they claimed (I won't get
into their sales techniques) I figured I would be happy with it. Besides, being
an engineering type, what they described in the mechanics of the thing just made
plain good sense. Besides, my satisfaction was guarrantied! Having towed my
parents TT with dual cam sway control I personally felt that there must be
something better. I hated their setup. On our first trip out with the new TT and
Hensley, we stopped once to add more tension to the bars and plug in the
electrical connector that fell out. After that we were amazed at how nice this
setup towed. My wife asked as we went how things felt and I was giggling silly
with delite! We both congratulated each other on spending the bucks and getting
the best. Never have regretted it! This was our third season with it and I'm
still just as happy with it. As the old saying goes, buy the best and cry only
once! Anyway lest I digress.....
As has been discussed much here, a friction type sway device resists movement not
only from towing in the intended line but also resists in getting back into the
intended line after some sway inducing factor has caused it to move. This is in
my opinion the major detriment to theses conventional systems. Both the Pullrite
and Hensley work to always try and prevent the tail from wagging the dog , and
they both do it well.
> Again those that just sell stabilizer/equalizer solutions will be tempted to
> say "never" but I'm looking for a practial viewpoint here.
Even as stable as my setup is I feel the wind gust of semis blowing by on the
interstate; it's just not a white-knuckle situation anymore. Figure the side area
of any tow vehicle/TT and you will always feel crosswinds. That's just the nature
of things. But with either of the 2 mentioned systems the tail doesn't wag the
dog when trucks pass or if you make quick lane changes. Can you get into trouble
with these $$ hitches? Yes, see my Ferrari comment earlier.
> Also, are there other whizzy solutions that are not a) as expensive as the
> Hensley or b) ground clearance distruptive as the Pullrite that offer good
> sway control?
Buy either one of these hitches and you won't need anything else, except maybe
some gold plated sewer hoses!! ;-)
Enjoy, choose either one and happy trails!
Jeff
KEN ORUM
I just wanted to 2nd everything that Jeffery stated in his reply. I am also
a newbe Hensley owner (60 days) and can attest to the ablity of the hitch. I
also believe pullrite is as good but I buy a new truck every couple years
and then would need a new hitch and install costs. And to answer your
question yes it will reduce ground clearence some and will protude out the
rear of the vehicle a few inches. Normally 4 storage you put the pullrite to
one side.
There is nothing comprable to these hitches, and one must determine if your
and your familys safety is worth the risk. Also you dont get to your
destination exhausted from the drive with the trailer
Ken
Tex Gunk
>consensus opinion, if such a thing exists. (The merits of e
Let me qualify my remarks by saying that I am selling my Hensley hitch, but
only because we now have a 5th wheel. I first used the Hensley pulling a fully
loaded 25ft Terry TT with a 2500 Dodge. On a trip on a single lane road, I
topped a hill with the cruse set on 65 and was looking in the eye balls of an
on comming driver in my lane. Re-acted by cranking to my right, hit the
shoulder and cranked back to the road. It wasn't until after we were heading
back down the road that I realized we were still going 65 and the trailer was
still behind us. What would have happened if I had been using an undersized
tow vehicle or any other hitch, or both?
Michael R. Daymude, Esq.
>> shoulder and cranked back to the road. It wasn't until after we were heading
>> back down the road that I realized we were still going 65 and the trailer was
>> still behind us. What would have happened if I had been using an undersized
>> tow vehicle or any other hitch, or both?
>>
Your guess is as good an anyone's. But, your implication does not hold water. Your
experience is no proof that your combo and/or hitch saved the day. And, it says
absolutely nothing about other combos and/or hitches. You had a "good" experience.
That is all that can be said. I am sure others have had "good" experiences with
undersized tow vehicles and other hitches too. -- Michael
Philip Tipler
owners are more satisfied with their hitches than what they had previously
(if any). No Hensley has, to any dealer's knowledge, been replaced by a
Reese, Eaz-Lift, Pullrite or General. The opposite cannot be claimed.
Philip Tipler
Bucky Hydal
I get excellent results with it towing a 24-ft trailer using a 1996 Jeep
Grand Cherokee V8.
I understand from testimonials here that the Hensley and Pullrite are
superb hitches, but I wanted to try less expensive unconventional hitch
first. The Equal-i-zer worked for me. If it hadn't, I would be buying
the Hensley for my setup.
Bucky
--
Bait for spammers (With credit to E. Needham):
root@localhost
postmaster@localhost
admin@localhost
abuse@localhost
postm...@127.0.0.1
Jim....@tellabs.com
I hope I can answer some of your questions.
>
> Hopefully this doesn't spawn a huge debate, I'm mostly looking for a
> consensus opinion, if such a thing exists. (The merits of each have
> certainly been talked to death).
>
> Assume the following: mid-size V8 SUV, wheelbase in the 116-120" range
> (Tahoe, Expedition, etc .. but NOT Suburban, Excursion, not full size
PU)
> pulling a relatively short and light TT <3200 lbs, <22 ft. (Well
within
> spec, probably less than 60% for nearly all possible configs of those
> vehiciles) Further assume twin axles on the trailer and factory Class
IV
> receiver hitches on the trucks.
>
> Now the hitch salesmen will doubtlessly point out that any combination
of
> vehicle and trailer would be improved by either of these hitches. I
don't
> want to argue that.
>
> But seriously, what's the consensus regarding the length and weight of
> trailer that should be pulled by the above type of vehicles before one
of
> these "wonder hitches" starts becoming a "generally recommended" idea?
>
> To tailor your answer, I'm inclined towards conservative, low stress
towing.
>
Given that you want to experience low stress towing, I would recommend
either of the hitches you mention below.
> The Pull-Rite would seem to radically reduce rear departure angle
ground
> clearance (does it?) -- a major liability if the vehicle also does
even light
> offroading. By way of example, with just a traditional receiver and
ball,
> even relatively mild trails require the removal of the piece that has
the
> ball to avoid whacking it into the dirt.
>
> Can the thing be quickly removed (5 minutes or less) --- I'm gonna
guess
> "no".
I do not know if it can be easily removed. It can be stored near the
wheel well while not in use. I had never considered the effects of the
hitch in regards to offroading, since I have never done that. Two other
things to consider with the Pull-Rite are:
1. The spare tire will need to be relocated if it is mounted under the
vehicle.
2. The tail pipe will need to be rerouted to clear the hitch.
>
> The Hensley would cost a substantial portion of the trailer in the
above
> scenario ... .
They are expensive, but they are also effective and can be moved from
one travel trailer to the next. You would probably not want to store
your trailer for a long time in a place with public access with the
hitch still installed.
>
> What's the cutover point where a traditional stabilizer/equalizer
solution
> will have its hands too full given likely wind and occasional nasty
traffic
> "surprises"? Obviously there's no clear official answer, but is there
a
> consensus?
You have to make the final justification. I plan to go conservative
myself. I would like the trip to the camp grounds to be as enjoyable as
the destination. As a data point here is what my wife and I plan on in
the next year or so, when we can scrape together the cash. For the tow
vehicle, we are looking at an extended cab 4X4 Silverado 1500 with the
towing package and 5.4 liter engine. For the hitch, we will have the
Pull-Rite hitch installed. For the trailer we are looking at a variety
of light weight travel trailers in the 20-25 foot range. Before we
make the final decision on a trailer we will be trying out some
trailers at a few campgrounds to nail down the exact features we feel
are important to us. To me this seems like a good starting point. We
will be able to learn the intricacies of towing with a reasonable safety
margin. We will also have room to get a larger/heavier trailer later if
the first one does not meet our needs.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
fetz...@my-deja.com
Jim....@tellabs.com wrote (in part):
"For the tow vehicle, we are looking at an extended cab 4X4 Silverado
1500 with the towing package and 5.4 liter engine."
A FORD engine in a CHEVY truck??? BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!
Sorry, couldn't resist. (The Chevy is a 5.3, Ford has the 5.4).
-Fetz
Bruce-San Antonio
yet. One big advantage of the Pullrite is the added maneuverability for
u-turns, etc. It really turns just like a fifth-wheel. I have amazed my
traveling buddy, who tows a 26' TT, by making u-turns on two lane roads with
very little shoulder.
Bruce - San Antonio
KEN ORUM <KS_...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:7uo3ni$2c3o$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
Stuart
>
><s...@ANTISPAMfc.hp.com> writes:
>
>
>> But seriously, what's the consensus . . . I'm inclined towards
>>conservative, low stress towing.
>
>.. make up your mind. Do you want a consensus or good advice?
Both, of course. I don't see it as an either or. I collect good advice when
I hear it. (And frequently act on it!).
At some point (trailer which is light enough, short enough, low enough), a
high tech, high dollar hitch is overkill. (Absurd example: Nobody hooks up
their Hensley to bring home the 3' rental trailer with a 200 lb lawn aerator
on it from the rental place!)
I'm genuinely curious what reasonably conservative folks think that "point"
might be for both the given medium length WB vehicles (116-120") mentioned
and as an overall guide for virtually any "in spec" trailer. Which is the
killer variable? Weight of trailer? Length of trailer? Side/height?
In the earlier stated problem, how might your answer change if the weight and
length were held constant (21-23' max, 3200 lbs max) but the height were
drastically reduced ala a pop-up tent trailer, a Tow-Lite, Hi-Lo, or Trail
Manor implementation.
I realize the point that reducing the height only reduces the inclination to
sway and that if it gets started the problem is the same ... but risk is
managed both by reducing liklihood of occurance along with the ability to
contend with it. (i.e., the wonder hitch).
What would be wonderful to have out of this discussion (but involve years of
bickering to get to) would be a nice rule-of-thumb row/column chart that has
two axis, one for some combination of wheelbase and tow vehicle weight on one
axis and a synthesis of trailer weight, length and "side profile" as
components on the other axis. (Other variables that are trailer specific?)
Ideally one could then discuss and then populate the matrix and color it
several shades based on the sort of "hitch technology" that prudent folks
might recommend.
Imagine the corners populated thus:
Top left: A 90" WB Suzuki with an 10 foot, 800 lb pop-up
Bottom left: A 170" CrewCab Ford with same pop-up
Top Right: A 90" WB Suzuki with a 32', 12,000 lb TT
Bottom Right A 170" Crewcab Ford with same monster trailer
The rest of the rows and columns would cover the rest of the vehicle/trailer
world. (I'm leaving 5th wheels out of this entirely)
As we move diagonally from extreme lower left to extreme upper right, clearly
we move from "nothing special typically needed" through "you'll need
something, through "wonder hitch recommended/required" and beyond into "not
even a wonder hitch can possibly do this".
The consensus (at least what I hear from those posting to date) is that the
config I described is _not_ in the overkill category for a "wonder hitch".
Many of those responding thus far would recommend or strongly recommend it.
That's useful to know.
>
>The "consensus" (however you wish to define it) is probably "We don't
>need no fancy hitch".
In my case, I'm interested in hearing from conservatively inclined folks. So
the guy pulling a 34' Airstream with his Intrepid doesn't get a vote in my
poll. :-)
Stuart
Eric A. Roellig
>
> On Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:52:47 GMT, wi...@epix.net wrote:
>
> >
> ><s...@ANTISPAMfc.hp.com> writes:
> >
> >
> >> But seriously, what's the consensus . . . I'm inclined towards
> >>conservative, low stress towing.
> >
> >.. make up your mind. Do you want a consensus or good advice?
>
> Both, of course. I don't see it as an either or. I collect good advice when
> I hear it. (And frequently act on it!).
>
> At some point (trailer which is light enough, short enough, low enough), a
> high tech, high dollar hitch is overkill. (Absurd example: Nobody hooks up
> their Hensley to bring home the 3' rental trailer with a 200 lb lawn aerator
> on it from the rental place!)
>
> I'm genuinely curious what reasonably conservative folks think that "point"
> might be for both the given medium length WB vehicles (116-120") mentioned
> and as an overall guide for virtually any "in spec" trailer. Which is the
> killer variable? Weight of trailer? Length of trailer? Side/height?
>
I submit that there is no one single "killer" variable. It should be
noted, however, that some rigs are rediculously over extended in one
variable at times...
> In the earlier stated problem, how might your answer change if the weight and
> length were held constant (21-23' max, 3200 lbs max) but the height were
> drastically reduced ala a pop-up tent trailer, a Tow-Lite, Hi-Lo, or Trail
> Manor implementation.
Height of trailer isn't the key. Example: I drove behind a pop-up being
pulled by a (don't remember what now but looked like an appropriate
"size" SUV) and was watching the thing sway gently for a while then all
of a sudden the tail took control of the dog and the driver slowed down
REAL QUICKLY!
>
> I realize the point that reducing the height only reduces the inclination to
> sway and that if it gets started the problem is the same ... but risk is
> managed both by reducing liklihood of occurance along with the ability to
> contend with it. (i.e., the wonder hitch).
>
> What would be wonderful to have out of this discussion (but involve years of
> bickering to get to) would be a nice rule-of-thumb row/column chart that has
> two axis, one for some combination of wheelbase and tow vehicle weight on one
> axis and a synthesis of trailer weight, length and "side profile" as
> components on the other axis. (Other variables that are trailer specific?)
I agree that such a table would be a WONDERFUL thing to have. The
reality is that such a thing is not gonna happen. You have:
wheel base of tow vehicle
width of tow vehicle
inherent stability of the tow vehicle (a few SUVs don't
want to stay jelly side up
even when NOT towing!!)
length of overhang from rear axle to tow ball
length from tow ball to axle on trailer
loading of trailer (12% or so on tongue)
quality of shocks on tow vehicle
quality (or even presence) of shocks on trailer
lots of other variables I can't think of off hand.....
try qualifying these things then finding a way for people to measure on
their on rigs (and some of this would vary by individual vehicle!)
>
> Ideally one could then discuss and then populate the matrix and color it
> several shades based on the sort of "hitch technology" that prudent folks
> might recommend.
>
> Imagine the corners populated thus:
> Top left: A 90" WB Suzuki with an 10 foot, 800 lb pop-up
> Bottom left: A 170" CrewCab Ford with same pop-up
> Top Right: A 90" WB Suzuki with a 32', 12,000 lb TT
> Bottom Right A 170" Crewcab Ford with same monster trailer
>
> The rest of the rows and columns would cover the rest of the vehicle/trailer
> world. (I'm leaving 5th wheels out of this entirely)
>
> As we move diagonally from extreme lower left to extreme upper right, clearly
> we move from "nothing special typically needed" through "you'll need
> something, through "wonder hitch recommended/required" and beyond into "not
> even a wonder hitch can possibly do this".
>
[snip]
IMHO, the "wonder" hitches push the safety limits out further and so
keep life more pleasant. With a lot of rigs, it isn't a always a
question of "have to have" but "would like to have" the extra safety
margin. No mater how you slice or dice it, if you hang several tons of
extra weight on the back of even a monster truck (with or without a
wonder hitch) you have to keep your mind on what you are doing or it can
bite you.
It has been said in this NG before that safety isn't broken all at once
but in stages. Your own comfort and financial level is as much a part of
the equation as anything else.
--
Eric A. Roellig
Craig
like all folks who are new to towing a RV. I have a F150 139" wheel base with
tow package that has a maximum towing capacity of 8,300lbs. I would like to
tow (don't have yet) a 24' to 26' lite weight trailer that will probably be
about 5,100lbs loaded. That will make the tongue weight around 600lbs.
The F150 has a class III hitch receiver on it. That's 5,000lbs maximum towing
with a 500lb maximum tongue weight.
The local Drawtite hitch guy says no problem. If the rear end sags any, we can
put on weight distribution springs and maybe add sway control if you want.
The Equalizer hitch guy says their brand has weight distribution built in to
increase the capacity of the class III so you don't need anything else.
The Ford dealer hasn't a clue.
Pullrite would replace the receiver so that would solve all the above but then
I would have to find someplace for the spare and would require exhaust changes.
Really don't want to make all those modifications right now.
I really don't think I should need a Hensley due to my conservative towing
configuration.
I guess you could say I fit somewhere in the middle of your chart. But then
again, how do I know. I'm new at this.
Craig>Imagine the corners populated thus:
>Top left: A 90" WB Suzuki with an 10 foot, 800 lb pop-up
>Bottom left: A 170" CrewCab Ford with same pop-up
>Top Right: A 90" WB Suzuki with a 32', 12,000 lb TT
>Bottom Right A 170" Crewcab Ford with same monster trailer
>
>The rest of the rows and columns would cover the rest of the vehicle/trailer
>world. (I'm leaving 5th wheels out of this entirely)
>
>As we move diagonally from extreme lower left to extreme upper right, clearly
>we move from "nothing special typically needed" through "you'll need
>something, through "wonder hitch recommended/required" and beyond into "not
>even a wonder hitch can possibly do this".
>
Philip Tipler
important as weight.
Philip Tipler
Eric A. Roellig wrote in message <3810C7EC...@email.mot.com>...
>Height of trailer isn't the key.
>Eric A. Roellig
Philip Tipler
>
>The F150 has a class III hitch receiver on it. >
to
>increase the capacity of the class III so you don't need anything else.
The problem is you're listening to three different opinions. Don't get an
"average opinion", get a correct one. Go to a place that has set up
trailers.
rrfanjim
tank. Near Sana Clause, Ind the trailer suddenly went into violent yaw
lifting the front of the car off the pavement. I got it under control by
using the manual brake control each time the trailer got about straight
behind the car. About three tire sliding brake apps got things settled dowm.
The co-pilots reaction was "One more like that and we sell a trailer.
Fortunately we had the road to ourselves or the outcome could have been
tragic. We had everything Reese sold in the way of sway control. Dual cams,
etc.
I sold the Pontiac, bought a 3/4 T Dodge van and installed a pullrite.
Three trailers and two tow vehicles later we still use a Pullrite. It has
saved our hides on at least two occasions when we had to take emergency
evasive action. One time at 65mph. Jim
SCTF wrote in message <19991021134623...@ng-cm1.aol.com>...
>>Also, are there other whizzy solutions that are not a) as expensive as the
>>> Hensley or b) ground clearance distruptive as the Pullrite that offer
good
>>> sway control?
>
Tom J
s...@ANTISPAMfc.hp.com (Stuart) wrote:
> What's the cutover point where a traditional stabilizer/equalizer
>solution
> will have its hands too full given likely wind and occasional nasty
>traffic
> "surprises"? Obviously there's no clear official answer, but is
>there a
> consensus?
>
> Again those that just sell stabilizer/equalizer solutions will be
>tempted to
> say "never" but I'm looking for a practial viewpoint here.
>
> Also, are there other whizzy solutions that are not a) as expensive
>as the
> Hensley or b) ground clearance distruptive as the Pullrite that offer
>good
> sway control?
>
> Stuart
>
I'm going to give you the "other side". I have been towing for 32
years using Reese hitches. I say "hitches" because I am using the 2nd
one because I sold the 1st one with the last trailer 13 years ago. The
1st trailer was a 27 footer, and the current trailer is a 35 footer. I
use the friction sway controls as opposed to the dual cam, because I
don't like the noise of the dual cam, that I used for less than 6
months. I just removed the cams and installed the chain loops to the
1st hitch.
The secret to using this hitch, or any other hitch, is to get the
weight of the trailer properly balanced with at lest 10% tongue
weight. 12% is better. The next step is to get the hitch properly
adjusted so that the tow vehicle and the trailer are both towing level
when hooked up. The exception to the towing level criteria may be some
models of Airstream, although I have not been convinced.
The next secret is driving according to road and traffic conditions. I
don't go flying down the road when it's snowing/icy, traffic is bumper
to bumper, or the grades are steep.
How much have I towed these 2 trailers you ask? Over 250,000 miles
total, covering 49 States, 5 Canadian Providences, and 2 Mexican
States, under all kinds of road conditions. Neither trailer was ever
hit by anything but bugs, and stones thrown by other traffic on gravel
and dirt roads.
Does this mean this hitch is safe for everybody? NO! Some people will
never be safe with any kind of hitch, as evidenced by reports on this
newsgroup.
--
tomj...@my-Deja.com
http://homepages.infoseek.com/~tomjanis/
http://homepages.infoseek.com/~aviontravelcade/
Tom J
"Philip Tipler" <pti...@golden.net> wrote:
> Craig wrote in message <19991022185038.20105.00000009@ng-
It seems to me he has gone to places that "set up trailers", and has
found that most of them don't have a clue as to the correct procedures
for hooking a trailer to a tow vehicle either. I would venture to say
that way over half the rigs going down the road are not hitched
correctly, including a lot of 5th wheels.
Mike Dobony
Michael R. Daymude, Esq. <attor...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:380F9D76...@earthlink.net...
> >> Re-acted by cranking to my right, hit the
> >> shoulder and cranked back to the road. It wasn't until after we were
heading
> >> back down the road that I realized we were still going 65 and the
trailer was
> >> still behind us. What would have happened if I had been using an
undersized
> >> tow vehicle or any other hitch, or both?
> >>
>
water. Your
> experience is no proof that your combo and/or hitch saved the day. And, it
says
> absolutely nothing about other combos and/or hitches. You had a "good"
experience.
> That is all that can be said. I am sure others have had "good" experiences
with
> undersized tow vehicles and other hitches too. -- Michael
>
>
If you are stupid enough to test your hypothesis, we will be reading about
it in the obituaries.
Mike Dobony
<fetz...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7uq6rf$71j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <7upslt$v8s$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Jim....@tellabs.com wrote (in part):
> "For the tow vehicle, we are looking at an extended cab 4X4 Silverado
> 1500 with the towing package and 5.4 liter engine."
>
>
> A FORD engine in a CHEVY truck??? BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!
>
> Sorry, couldn't resist. (The Chevy is a 5.3, Ford has the 5.4).
>
Are you sure? Chevy has a NEW line of motors for the Silverado and it is
soon to replace the old 5.3 and 5.7. The 5.4 replaces the 5.7. It is
supposed to have more power and better gas mileage.
> -Fetz
Mike Dobony
<Jim....@tellabs.com> wrote in message news:7upslt$v8s$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Stuart,
>
><snip>... .
>
> They are expensive, but they are also effective and can be moved from
> one travel trailer to the next. You would probably not want to store
> your trailer for a long time in a place with public access with the
> hitch still installed.
I assume because of the possibility of theft? There was a report of such an
occurrence on this NG a while back and have been considering this for quite
some time. I think I have a solution from one of Ford's more stupid ideas.
My mother's Ford LTD needed new brake shoes. I broke TWO wrenches until I
found the problem. LOCTITE!!!!! Ford used the type that needs to be heated
to remove the bolt. IT NEEDS TO BE TORCHED TO HEAT IT ENOUGH TO LOOSEN THE
BOLT!!!! Put this type of Loctite on key nuts and bolts and a thief will
break his tools! (and maybe his hands too if you are blessed!)
wi...@epix.net
<pti...@golden.net> writes:
> Profile is one of the keys to safe towing. As EQUALLY as
> important as weight.
If you are just speaking of the power required to overcome drag,
then profile is MORE important than weight. But it is more-or-less
irrelevant to safety compared to weight and the hitch configuration -
factors that more directly influence handling and braking.
Obviously a Humphrey Pennyworth design (outhouse proportions) would be
unstable, but we are talking rv's, not cartoon concepts.
Will KD3XR
wi...@epix.net
<craige...@aol.com.WXY> writes:
> The local Drawtite hitch guy says no problem. . . .
> The Equalizer hitch guy says their brand . . . blah blah
>
> The Ford dealer hasn't a clue.
As someone else pointed out, you can't give equal weight to all input.
Like Olympic judges, you throw out some scores. (All of the above.)
If you really want to tow a TT and want minimum risk and unease, buy a
good hitch (you know what kind) and quit agonizing over it.
Will KD3XR
Hugh Darling
(replaces "old" 5.7L). These are only used presently in the
new Chevy and GMC lines. The 6.0L replaces the old 7.4L and
looked like it's doing a mighty fine job.
Hugh
Mike Dobony wrote in message
<7usm3u$9ag$1...@ins22.netins.net>...
Craig
>found that most of them don't have a clue as to the correct procedures
>for hooking a trailer to a tow vehicle either.
Thanks Tom
Didn't know how to put it gracefully that if I knew were to find the right
answers I sure would have gone there/done that already.
Criag
Craig
>good hitch (you know what kind) and quit agonizing over it.
Oh I donno. If I did't have this to worry about then I would probably just
worry about something else.
Your right. You take some and throw some away. What you end up with is what
you hope is gonna be right.
Thanks, Craig
Donald J. Dickson
<hug...@dreamscape.com> wrote:
> The new motors are, 4.8L (replaces "old" 5.0L) and 5.3L
> (replaces "old" 5.7L). These are only used presently in the
> new Chevy and GMC lines. The 6.0L replaces the old 7.4L and
> looked like it's doing a mighty fine job.
> Hugh
That's only in the Silverado and Sierra models. The old style HD models
still have the 5.7L and 7.4L engines although they will be phased out in
the 2001 model when GM brings out it's revised line to compete with the
Ford SuperDuty. Then they will have a 495 cu in gas and a new 6.6L diesel
(no relation to current 6.5L diesel) and a 5 speed auto trans.
--
Don Dickson
Remove first "x" from xcx666 to reply by email.
Hugh Darling
I made that clear in my post.
Hugh
Donald J. Dickson wrote in message ...
Nels M. Hansen
I installed a PullRite on my F250 HD 4x4 last February and then towed
7700 miles allover the country - much more stable than my former
equalizer hitch. When not towing, I regularly use my PU in 4x4 in
rough country. The ball and hitch of the PullRite come off the
tongue of the truck part and that tongue swings to the right and
locks to the curved portion of the hitch. It does not decrease my
clearances to any significant amount in my use. It actually is only
about two inches lower than my former equalizer hitch receiver but is
in an area that has no real affect on clearance since the tongue is
fastened in a position behind the right rear tire.
FWIW.
Nels
------------------------------------------
Nels Hansen
in Beautiful Central Oregon
------------------------------------------
Stuart Bobb <s...@ANTISPAMfc.hp.com> wrote in article
<380f53b2....@news.fc.hp.com>...
> On Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:58:58 -0500, JOE NEAR <ne...@indiana.edu>
wrote:
>
big snip
Stuart
<CCE...@email.mot.com> wrote:
Eric,
Useful and thoughtful comments.
One question:
>Stuart wrote:
>> In the earlier stated problem, how might your answer change if the weight and
>> length were held constant (21-23' max, 3200 lbs max) but the height were
>> drastically reduced ala a pop-up tent trailer, a Tow-Lite, Hi-Lo, or Trail
>> Manor implementation.
And Eric responded.
>Height of trailer isn't the key. Example: I drove behind a pop-up being
>pulled by a (don't remember what now but looked like an appropriate
>"size" SUV) and was watching the thing sway gently for a while then all
>of a sudden the tail took control of the dog and the driver slowed down
>REAL QUICKLY!
Indeed. It's possible to make anything unsafe!
So what role does height play?. Having an extra 3-4' of profile to catch
cross winds or get the vacuum effect from a passing tractor/trailer has to
have some impact on the liklihood of sway for traditional TT versus the
various "short" forms (hi-lo, trailmanor, pop-ups, etc).
So, now this side point has me curious. How much more stable are the "low
profile" (trailmanor, towlite, hi-lo) trailers compared to their peers of
the same length and weight? Is the advantage purely reduced frontal
surface?
Stuart
Donald J. Dickson
<hug...@dreamscape.com> wrote:
> That's what I said, the "new" Chevy and GMC lines. I thought
> I made that clear in my post.
> Hugh
Sorry Hugh. Sometimes it takes a 2x4 to get a mules attention. :-))
Donald J. Dickson
(Stuart) wrote:
>
> So what role does height play?. Having an extra 3-4' of profile to catch
> cross winds or get the vacuum effect from a passing tractor/trailer has to
> have some impact on the liklihood of sway for traditional TT versus the
> various "short" forms (hi-lo, trailmanor, pop-ups, etc).
>
> So, now this side point has me curious. How much more stable are the "low
> profile" (trailmanor, towlite, hi-lo) trailers compared to their peers of
> the same length and weight? Is the advantage purely reduced frontal
> surface?
>
Not exactly a parallel but the effect is the same. I have a 10' utility
trailer. It used to have 7' high solid sides which I made when we were
moving furniture to our new house. Now I cut the sides down to about 3'
because it's just used for general purpose. I can sure feel the difference
in the reduced amount of drag I feel at 55-60 mph even though some of the
loads I'm hauling now would probably weight 2 or 3 times as much as when
the sides were high. I had the front of the box extended in a V shape to
help cut the wind but now that the trailer is just below my truck box
there's much less air drag. It is too short to really judge if there is
much side pressure difference.
Eric A. Roellig
I agree 100% with Will on the above statement.
I would say that what you should be concerned with (as far as stability)
is Center of Gravity (as opposed to height. There is some correlation
but not a direct one.) Yes it will take more beef to pull a tall trailer
because of drag, but we were talking about when you need to use a
"wonder hitch." I maintain that height of trailer is not the key
variable.
--
Eric A. Roellig
Eric A. Roellig
A clarification re: when to use a "wonder" hitch:
I never said that height didn't have any impact, I said (or tried to
say) that height wasn't a "KEY" factor in when you should get a "wonder"
hitch. What the extra height does is catch more wind and add energy into
the system (rig) to influence an unstabilizing motion, the higher the
sides the more engergy it can catch from the wind (or passing trucks
or...)
A stable rig will likely be stable regardless of how high (to a
reasonable legal height) the trailer is (i.e. it will inherently resist
sway/fishtailing/etc.) An unstable rig will be unstable regardless of
how low the trailer is (i.e. my tail-wagging-dog pop-up example.)
because it doesn't take much extra energy input to start the unwanted
motions. I suspect even the undulations/ruts of the road are also
sources of energy to input into the system.
I maintain that more important than height is the center of gravity of
both the tow vehicle and the trailer.
--
Eric A. Roellig
Chris Hill
wrote:
>`
>So what role does height play?. Having an extra 3-4' of profile to catch
>cross winds or get the vacuum effect from a passing tractor/trailer has to
>have some impact on the liklihood of sway for traditional TT versus the
>various "short" forms (hi-lo, trailmanor, pop-ups, etc).
>
I don't know if it really makes all that much difference. We towed a
Hi-Lo behind our suburban with a standard hitch. It worked pretty
well, except for a couple of incidents, one of which was likely caused
by a loose sway control and not enough air in a rear tire of the
Suburban. We switched to the Pull-rite a few months back, and it is a
lot more steady. This may be because the hitch is better or it may be
because I changed shocks and steering stabilizer about the same time.
One point that is often missed is that the sway control instructions
say pretty clearly that they should not be used in the rain; seems
like it has to rain on our trips about half the time, so you can
either run somewhat unsafely or stay put. You have to also ask the
question with the friction sway controls: what happens when it does
break loose?
---
Doing things that make the international man cringe...
Hil...@earthlink.net Columbia Missouri or thereabouts