Wal-Mart RV Parking, Rapid City, SD Council members approve RV rules
Fred in AZ
City, SD Wal-Mart..........this policy can be attributed directly to the concerted
effort by many in rec.outdoors.rv-travel who contacted members of the Rapid City
Council and the Rapid City Journal via E-Mails last summer and fall.
Fred in AZ
_____________________________________________________________________
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/archives/index.inn?loc=detail&doc=/2001/May/30-1243-news04.txt
Council members approve RV rules
By Heidi Bell Gease, Journal Staff Writer
RAPID CITY — Months after city officials told Wal-Mart to stop allowing
recreational vehicles to camp overnight in the store parking lot, Rapid City
Council members have approved draft guidelines for "temporary overnight
recreational-vehicle parking."
Under the guidelines, RVs could park for less than 24 hours but would not be
allowed to use electrical generators or hook up to outside electric or water
services. Overnight parking would be allowed only in parking lots with more than
100 off-street parking spaces.
The council's Legal and Finance Committee voted to approve the guidelines at
the Wednesday committee meeting. The matter goes to the full council Monday
night for formal approval.
The issue came up last fall, when Wal-Mart proposed a 70,893 square-foot
addition to its existing 151,309 square-foot building. The addition will house a
grocery store.
At the time, the Rapid City Planning Commission recommended that Wal-Mart
sign an agreement with the city to comply with city ordinances, which did not
permit overnight camping outside travel parks or campgrounds.
At the time, store Manager Mark Haberman said people who stopped at
Wal-Mart overnight mostly were summer tourists. "We hesitate to call it
camping," he told the Rapid City Journal. "Basically, these people are pulling in
to
sleep."
The draft presented Wednesday is designed to allow temporary overnight
camping "as an accessory use to commercial activities. This use is not intended to
replace public or private campgrounds; rather, they are intended to provide a safe
location for visitors to stop on a short-term basis," the draft says.
Under the guidelines, temporary overnight RV parking would be allowed as a
Use Permitted on Review or as part of a Planned Commercial Development in
areas zoned General Commercial, Shopping Center I or Shopping Center II.
To qualify, businesses must have parking lots with more than 100 off-street
parking spaces. No more than 10 percent of those could be used for overnight
parking. All overnight parking spaces would have to be at least 600 feet from
residences and 300 feet from commercial businesses.
RVs that park in the temporary spots could stay on the property for up to 24
hours; after that, they would have to leave the site for at least five days. "In
no
case shall a recreational vehicle utilize the temporary overnight
recreational-vehicle parking facilities on a site for more than seven days in any
calendar year," the draft ordinance also states.
The guidelines also require that RVs be fully contained, not hook up to outside
facilities and not dump gray water or wastewater on the site, and that the parking
area be kept litter-free.
You may call reporter Heidi Bell Gease at 394-8419, or send e-mail to
heidi...@rapidcityjournal.com.
Hugh
>
> This is a follow-up of the contentious Wal-Mart RV parking issue at the Rapid
> City, SD Wal-Mart..........this policy can be attributed directly to the concerted
> effort by many in rec.outdoors.rv-travel who contacted members of the Rapid City
> Council and the Rapid City Journal via E-Mails last summer and fall.
>
> Fred in AZ
Thanks Fred, that's one for "our" side. The stipulation
about the generators is a good one. If all anyone needs is
sleep, no need for the genset. If traveling, the battery(s)
are up anyway. <g> Of course, that could be a bitch if the
night time temp is over 80 degrees.
Hugh
CRufe
>The stipulation
>about the generators is a good one. If all anyone needs is
>sleep, no need for the genset
Thank you so much for not completely quoting Fred. If you had, I might not have
felt the need to write this reply.
I am retired and occasionally travel with my wife in our motorhome. I suffer
from severe obstructive sleep apnea. I use a medical device to maintain an open
airway and ,sleeping only, require an oxygen concentrator. This combined draw
is greater than the capability of battery and inverter. We have a quiet Onan
genset that is run during sleep periods in areas not near power or other
people. A corner of a Walmart lot next to a busy highway would not appear to be
intruding upon the rights of others for 4 to 6 hours. I do not have a copy of
the rules so I will never know.
I'm not sure "one for our side" is any benefit to me. BTW Hugh, my wife and I
have only run our generator in isolated areas with no neighbors and we have
never parked or "camped" at Walmart.
I can only assume that your health is excellent and your tolerance for those
who are challenged is nil. May you always enjoy good health and I hope that I
may never share adjacent sites at any campground with you.
Sincerely,
CSRufe
Fred in AZ
perhaps, the RV generator stipulation could/should be re-written to allow use if
the generator, while in operation, produces no more than "x"
decibels..........Iv'e seen some generators that have been "quieted" to the point
that you don't even notice that they are running.........just take a trip to
Laughlin sometime in the summer and look around some of the casino parking
lots..........you'd think folks were nuts for not using the Riverside Campground
until you get up close and realize that the generators are running........it's
amazing, ya just can't hear them.........the AC units make more noise!!
Fred in AZ
Rich
AZ) wrote:
>This is a follow-up of the contentious Wal-Mart RV parking issue at the Rapid
>City, SD Wal-Mart..........this policy can be attributed directly to the concerted
>effort by many in rec.outdoors.rv-travel who contacted members of the Rapid City
>Council and the Rapid City Journal via E-Mails last summer and fall.
>
>Fred in AZ
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
well, on the surface this would seem to be a good compromise. i just
have to wonder though, who's gonna keep track of whether a particular
rv leaves for 5 days before coming back. me, i'd be inclined to pull
in for a few hours to sleep and then move on.
rich
GBinNC
>Fred in AZ wrote:
>>This is a follow-up of the contentious Wal-Mart RV parking issue at the Rapid
>>City, SD Wal-Mart..........
>><snipped for brevity>
>well, on the surface this would seem to be a good compromise. i just
>have to wonder though, who's gonna keep track of whether a particular
>rv leaves for 5 days before coming back. me, i'd be inclined to pull
>in for a few hours to sleep and then move on.
My guess is that if any particular RV's occupants do nothing to
attract attention to themselves or their rig, nothing will be done no
matter how often they show up. As you said, who's gonna be able to
remember and differentiate one RV from another over a year's time,
unless they record license plates and track them in a database. And
you KNOW there's nobody at a Wal-Mart who would go to that much
trouble. <g>
But the kind of RVers who are likely to be longer-term or repeat
"squatters" are, fortunately, also the kind who are likely to call
attention to themselves. Cookouts, awnings, trash, litter, dumping,
etc. -- in other words, camping rather than overnighting. So the
police may notice those folks (if they notice any RVers at all), and
now they will have a legal basis for requiring them to move on.
It takes the decision out of Wal-Mart's hands in such cases. This is
probably a good thing.
GB in NC
Fred in AZ
the big retailers, this would fall under the auspices of the LP (loss-prevention)
folks......
Nowadays, all of the big retailers have their LP folks conducting 24hr video
monitoring/recording of everthing, both inside and outside.......for the entire
property........ you'd be amazed at the documetation that they produce and hand
over to law enforcement for bad check wirters, credit card fraud and shoplifters
nowadays.........the resolution is so great, nowadays, that they can easily
observe and read signatures on checks/credit card slips as it happens.......not
to mention just about any license plate in the parking lots.......day or night.
Betcha the security fella on the golf-cart will have a clipboard wherein he writes
down license numbers etc........it the "offending" RV becomes a problem, all they
have to do is pull out the video tapes and take a look........the manager will
then have documentation and justification to "boot" the offender.
Fred in AZ
ben hogland
They make CPAP machines that run off 12 volts DC. I have a friend who has
severe sleep apnea who uses his VIA a dedicated deep cycle size 24, 12 volt
battery that charges while on the road or while the gen is running. He does
not use the normal house batteries for this for fear the power will not be
there and lack of knowing the exact usage left on them. I believe he said
that it is safe using the battery two nights with the CPAP without charging
the battery. If you'd like more info about the CPAP machine that I am
referring to, let me know and I'll try to find out the model number and
brand.
Ben
"CRufe" <cr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010617124617...@ng-fb1.aol.com...
> Rufe
George E. Cawthon
It appears that you are generally courteous about use of the generator.
So, I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying because you have a
health problem you should be able to violate the regulation (proposed
regulation)? And since you don't stay at Walmart, what difference does
it make to you?
RVnKen
Although your "handicap" is acknowledged, and the need to have a genset running
is a necessary requirement for your situation; IMO, there comes a time when YOU
should seek out a campground or other site which has ground power available.
The Walmart parking lot privilege is being tested at many places by various
interest groups and if there are gensets being operated which do produce some
noise, this privilege will become lost
Rich
>My guess is that if any particular RV's occupants do nothing to
>attract attention to themselves or their rig, nothing will be done no
>matter how often they show up. As you said, who's gonna be able to
>remember and differentiate one RV from another over a year's time,
>unless they record license plates and track them in a database. And
>you KNOW there's nobody at a Wal-Mart who would go to that much
>trouble. <g>
>
>But the kind of RVers who are likely to be longer-term or repeat
>"squatters" are, fortunately, also the kind who are likely to call
>attention to themselves. Cookouts, awnings, trash, litter, dumping,
>etc. -- in other words, camping rather than overnighting. So the
>police may notice those folks (if they notice any RVers at all), and
>now they will have a legal basis for requiring them to move on.
>
>It takes the decision out of Wal-Mart's hands in such cases. This is
>probably a good thing.
>
>GB in NC
i agree that this is a good thing overall and you're right about those
that call attention to themselves. but i've worked for govt for a
lonnng time and in my experience, politicians, especially at the local
level, love to control and regulate. i would not be surprised if some
local politician looking for a hot button issue proposes some sort of
way to track this. more regulation. cyncical point-of-view? guilty.
but i've been there and seen that. maybe the locals in SD are
different. i hope so.
rich
rich
Hugh
snipped
>
> I'm not sure "one for our side" is any benefit to me. BTW Hugh, my wife and I
> have only run our generator in isolated areas with no neighbors and we have
> never parked or "camped" at Walmart.
>
> I can only assume that your health is excellent and your tolerance for those
> who are challenged is nil. May you always enjoy good health and I hope that I
> may never share adjacent sites at any campground with you.
>
> Sincerely,
> CSRufe
I understand your problem completely and don't think my
response is out of line. Since it really only applies to a
situation like the one Fred described, it is a win for those
who need only a place to rest for the night. As to your
specific need, I'm sure if your onboard genset is as quiet
as most I've heard, no one would be the wiser since the ac
would drown out the genset.
Try not to be so defensive, it is not necessary. And if we
meet at a campground, rest assured I will be a good
neighbor.
Hugh
Pete
<can...@dtgnet.com> wrote in message
news:7fpqitsrno364pbvh...@4ax.com...
> other similar freebie lots is that I, too, use an oxygen concentrator
> at night, and would not wish to make life uncomfortable for others by
> forcing them to accomodate my needs for electrical power.
>
> While I sympathize with your illness, using your problems as a demand
> for special treatment is out of bounds, unless you are Casey Martin.
> Otherwise, do what I do: grin and bear it.
>
> Canoli
What crap, if you're in a noisy area go for it........ Your little
piss-ant generator is n't going to cause problems for anyone other then
Canoli of course.........
Pete
Pete
<can...@dtgnet.com> wrote in message
news:eg2ritot4gvofd2k7...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 20:11:18 -0700, "Pete" <daleno...@prodigy.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >What crap, if you're in a noisy area go for it........ Your little
> >piss-ant generator is n't going to cause problems for anyone other then
> >Canoli of course.........
> >
> >Pete
> >
>
> Canoli
Read fine Thank You, but I'm deaf as a stone.............. Generator noise
doesn't bother me, neither does road noise. Pompous twits bother me
though..... ;~)
Pete
Hugh
snipped
> doesn't bother me, neither does road noise. Pompous twits bother me
> though..... ;~)
>
> Pete
I'd avoid looking in the mirror then if I were you.
Hugh
Fred in AZ
bombarding the Rapid City Council with E-Mails from around the country....
Had we let the "politicians" go on unabated, there would have been a total ban on
RV parking anywhere but a campground......
There is an organized effort among the campground owners' assiciations to
encourage municipalites to ban RV overniting at places such as
Wal-Marts.........Besides, Rapid City, SD, we've seen the same thing attempted in
Durango, CO, Springfield, IL
There's alot of archival information on the subject of Wal-Mart parking......also,
the Escapees RV club has been active in countering RV parking restrictions.
HTH,
Fred in AZ
JPSJPS
strockft@earthlink**.net says...
> This is a follow-up of the contentious Wal-Mart RV parking issue at the Rapid
> City, SD Wal-Mart..........this policy can be attributed directly to the concerted
> effort by many in rec.outdoors.rv-travel who contacted members of the Rapid City
> Council and the Rapid City Journal via E-Mails last summer and fall.
involved!
John
Rich
AZ) wrote:
>Rich........these proposed rules are the direct result of several months of
>bombarding the Rapid City Council with E-Mails from around the country....
>
>Had we let the "politicians" go on unabated, there would have been a total ban on
>RV parking anywhere but a campground......
>
>There is an organized effort among the campground owners' assiciations to
>encourage municipalites to ban RV overniting at places such as
>Wal-Marts.........Besides, Rapid City, SD, we've seen the same thing attempted in
>Durango, CO, Springfield, IL
>
>There's alot of archival information on the subject of Wal-Mart parking......also,
>the Escapees RV club has been active in countering RV parking restrictions.
>
>http://escapees.com/webx/
>
>HTH,
>
>Fred in AZ
i understand all of that, fred. i've been watching the various
wal-mart threads and i congratulate all who contributed. my point is
that the local politicians i am familiar with love nothing better than
to regulate that which is unregulated. i certainly think you are
correct when you state that absent the effort a total ban would have
been imposed. but now that we have a compromise...or something other
than a total ban...watch and see how the city council deals with this.
it may take a few complaints from neighbors about infractions (real or
imagined) but i'm betting that sooner or later wal-mart will be forced
to expend $ or man-hours in ensuring that the ordinance is being
followed and that as a result they, wal-mart, might then decide its
not worth the cost and impose a parking ban themselves.
to illustrate my point...item in the local paper today about a retired
gent who had a small business selling reflective address signs for
homes. great for assisting the police and fire in finding your home
at night. energy efficient...unobtrusive. but, alas, against local
ordinance (something about the address sign being an obstruction).
even in my town. a dad across the street built his kid a nice
treehouse. solid planking, railing, etc. not a shabby job or just
some boards nailed togather...this was a ncie job. some nanny in the
neighborhood called the city and complained. something about her
property values being negatively affected. there was no ordinance on
the books prohibiting treehouses and there isn't one today. but there
is now an ordinance that dictates the size and construction method
that must be used. plans must be filed with the building department
and permits required. existing treehouses have 3 or 4 years to comply
with the new standards. the city encouraged the residents to report
treehouses to city hall. there was no problem. no kids were killed
or hurt. no reason to go off the deep end.
one town over dictates the type, shape, color and material of the
mailbox that you can have at the end of your driveway.
local politicians. i think the only body that outdoes them when it
comes to regulating our lives are condo and homeowner association
boards. a former co-worker lived in a single-family home sub-division
where the HA association dictated the size, shape and color of the
garbage cans. they also required permission to install window awnings
and if you were going to paint the exterior of your house you had to
submit your color scheme to the board for a vote. when my mother
bought her house in florida there were 16 pages of CCR's she had to
agree to.
sorry for the dennis miller type rant. i hope the local pols in rapid
city just leave well enough alone.
rich
Technobarbarian
"Rich" <rk...@ANTISPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kb5titoop5nfh7m77...@4ax.com...
> local politicians. i think the only body that outdoes them when it
> comes to regulating our lives are condo and homeowner association
> boards. a former co-worker lived in a single-family home sub-division
> where the HA association dictated the size, shape and color of the
> garbage cans. they also required permission to install window awnings
> and if you were going to paint the exterior of your house you had to
> submit your color scheme to the board for a vote. when my mother
> bought her house in florida there were 16 pages of CCR's she had to
> agree to.
I was with you until you got to this point. If mama, or anyone else,
doesn't want to deal with the big bad Home Owner's Association don't buy a
house there. I do not understand people who sign these agreements and then
complain because they're enforced right down to the comma and beyond. What
did you expect? No one forced Mom to live there.
Dennis
Neon John
Fred in AZ wrote:
>
> This is a follow-up of the contentious Wal-Mart RV parking issue at the Rapid
> City, SD Wal-Mart..........this policy can be attributed directly to the concerted
> effort by many in rec.outdoors.rv-travel who contacted members of the Rapid City
> Council and the Rapid City Journal via E-Mails last summer and fall.
Thanks for posting the note, Fred. Of course the politicians
couldn't just leave things along and let Wal*Mart manager their
PRIVATE property as they wished. They just HAD to write some
chicken-shit, head-up-the-ass rules just to show everyone who's the
boss. Pricks. Still a place I'm going to avoid.
John
--
John De Armond
johngdDO...@bellsouth.net
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~johngd/
Cleveland, occupied TN
Neon John
Hugh wrote:
> Thanks Fred, that's one for "our" side. The stipulation
> about the generators is a good one. If all anyone needs is
> sleep, no need for the genset. If traveling, the battery(s)
> are up anyway. <g> Of course, that could be a bitch if the
> night time temp is over 80 degrees.
Glad to see you know what is good for everyone, there Hugh. You
sound just like the politician pricks. I find that my generator is
just what the doctor ordered to block out outside noises. The AC is
a bonus.
Fred in AZ
society is the ability to "compromise" and reach workable solutions.
We are much better off with the new rules than what the "politicians" originally
stipulated as a condition to expand into the "Super Center"........which was, NO
OVERNITE RV CAMPING......anytime, anyplace or for any reason!!!
Fred in AZ
Hugh
Guess you didn't realize my response was partly tongue in
cheek. I think my other response clears it up. We were
talking about the specific Walmart from the email campaign.
I was not clear on my response. So, I thought the
stipulation about restricting genset use, in this particular
Walmart, was better than nothing. I participated in the
email "attack" in question and am pleased "we" got something
out of it. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. As to your
use of a genset, if you're talking about in a rest stop
whatever, do your thing. As long as campground use is as per
campground regulations, who can complain?
Hugh
gerald nieman
ever stayed at wal-mart have pulled in late and left early. All I ever
wanted was a reasonably safe place to get a few hours sleep. Get coffee in
the morning and be on my way. I must admit this has only happened once when
we had a family emergency but it was a help.
"Fred in AZ" <strockft@earthlink**.net> wrote in message
news:3b2cd292...@news.earthlink.net...
> This is a follow-up of the contentious Wal-Mart RV parking issue at the
Rapid
> City, SD Wal-Mart..........this policy can be attributed directly to the
concerted
> effort by many in rec.outdoors.rv-travel who contacted members of the
Rapid City
> Council and the Rapid City Journal via E-Mails last summer and fall.
>
> Fred in AZ
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
>
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/archives/index.inn?loc=detail&doc=/2001/May/
30-1243-news04.txt
>
> Council members approve RV rules
>
> By Heidi Bell Gease, Journal Staff Writer
>
Ray Patterson
members when this came up and lost. This year we stayed in Spearfish
just because of this ruling in Rapid City. We spend a week or two in
South Dakota every year and usually stay in Rapid. We normally get out
of here after work in the evening and arrive in Rapid late at night and
stay at the Walmart for the night and get a campground in the morning. This
year we stayed in Spearfish and had a really nice time although it rained
for much of our stay. The City of Spearfish runs a campground that's really
nice in the city park for $21 (in Spearfish, the city park looks like the
forest). It has a lot of attractions within walking distance and a
shuttle to the Passion Play if you don't have transportation other than
the RV. There is another campground called Chris' Campground that's as nice
for $21. There's a KOA, but it's $28 and looks fine but no better than the
$21 campgrounds. We may go back to Rapid next year because it's more in the
middle of things, but we very may well stay at Spearfish again.
-Ray
stroc.kft@earthlink**.net (Fred in AZ) wrote in message news:<3b2cd292...@news.earthlink.net>...
LOCOMOTIVE2506
This
>year we stayed in Spearfish and had a really nice time although it rained
>for much of our stay. The City of Spearfish runs a campground that's really
>nice in the city park for $21 (in Spearfish, the city park looks like the
>forest). It has a lot of attractions within walking distance and a
>shuttle to the Passion Play if you don't have transportation other than
>the RV. There is another campground called Chris' Campground that's as nice
>for $21. There's a KOA, but it's $28 and looks fine but no better than the
>$21 campgrounds. We may go back to Rapid next year because it's more in the
>middle of things, but we very may well stay at Spearfish again.
Yes, Spearfish is nice but don't even think about going there during the
Sturgess Motorcycle Rally unless you have firm reservations.
Rich
<d_m...@mailexcite.com> wrote:
>I was with you until you got to this point. If mama, or anyone else,
>doesn't want to deal with the big bad Home Owner's Association don't buy a
>house there. I do not understand people who sign these agreements and then
>complain because they're enforced right down to the comma and beyond. What
>did you expect? No one forced Mom to live there.
>
>
>Dennis
>
i don't understand them either, dennis and i didn't mean to imply that
my mom was upset with the 16 pages of CCR's 'cos she wasn't. she
EMBRACED them! she thinks all of the rules are just wonderful. i
was the one who was dumbfounded at the amount of regulation being
promulgated upon persons choosing to live there. the operative word
*is* choose and some folks must enjoy all of those rules but i'm sure
not one of them. i was merely trying to point out how picyune some
folks can be once they're given a little authority. sorry for the
confusion.
rich
Rich
<johngdDO...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>Fred in AZ wrote:
>>
>> This is a follow-up of the contentious Wal-Mart RV parking issue at the Rapid
>> City, SD Wal-Mart..........this policy can be attributed directly to the concerted
>> effort by many in rec.outdoors.rv-travel who contacted members of the Rapid City
>> Council and the Rapid City Journal via E-Mails last summer and fall.
>
>Thanks for posting the note, Fred. Of course the politicians
>couldn't just leave things along and let Wal*Mart manager their
>PRIVATE property as they wished. They just HAD to write some
>chicken-shit, head-up-the-ass rules just to show everyone who's the
>boss. Pricks. Still a place I'm going to avoid.
>
>John
i think john summed up what i was trying to convey a whole lot better
than i did.
rich
Marvin Kemel
So you run your gen. to keep out noise. Of course you are now making a
whole lot of noise for your neighbors. But why give a damn, you cant
hear a thing. Great reasoning on your part.
nicke...@gmail.com
> This is a follow-up of the contentious Wal-Mart RV parking issue at the Rapid
> City, SD Wal-Mart..........this policy can be attributed directly to the concerted
> effort by many in rec.outdoors.rv-travel who contacted members of the Rapid City
> Council and the Rapid City Journal via E-Mails last summer and fall.
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/archives/index.inn?loc=detail&doc=/2001/May/30-1243-news04.txt
>
> Council members approve RV rules
>
>
Technobarbarian
<nicke...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:48d61834-c441-4655...@googlegroups.com...
At the rate we're going on responses to old posts this could become
a real group again. It's tempting to sit here and debate Wal-mart again just
for the nostalgia.
Frank Howell
it!
--
Frank Howell
Lone Haranguer
14 years later he could be pushing up daisies.
LZ
K Miller
> nicke...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 17, 2001 at 10:06:30 AM UTC-6, Fred in AZ wrote:
>>> This is a follow-up of the contentious Wal-Mart RV parking issue at
>>> the Rapid City, SD Wal-Mart..........this policy can be attributed
>>> directly to the concerted effort by many in rec.outdoors.rv-travel
>>> who contacted members of the Rapid City Council and the Rapid City
>>> Journal via E-Mails last summer and fall.
>>>
>>> Fred in AZ
>>>
>> If the generator is that quiet, no one would complain, and if you
>> health is that poor, you wouldn't be camping in a Walmart parking
>> lot, you'd plan your trip and stay in a legitimate spot.
>
> If the owner of that Walmart says it's legitimate to camp there, then
> so be it!
where the crackers are gullible.