Anyone change out fuel pump?
Frank Howell
Ford 460 engine with a 40 gal aft of rear axel fuel tank? The fuel pump is
in the fuel tank.
--
Frank Howell
nothermark
<fpho...@usermail.com> wrote:
>Has anyone ever changed out a fuel pump on a E350 cutaway chassis, with a
>Ford 460 engine with a 40 gal aft of rear axel fuel tank? The fuel pump is
>in the fuel tank.
Have not done it, would not try it. I have seen it done on smaller
vehicles and it is a nasty job needing a lift and platform jack to
handle the tank. The major problem is handling the big, heavy,
probably sloshy unstable tank. Even if one can pump it out through
the filler neck it's still big an heavy.
mickey
Have not done this to my MH but did have the need on my Ford auto some yrs
back. Would not considers it a particular difficult job other than the
size of the tank and it's weight. For sure one would need to drain the
tanks first. Think a floor jack would go a long way in helping with the
lowering/raising of the tank.
If for some reason I had to drop the tank, I'd not hesitate to undertake
the job. But YMMV
Mickey
Hustlin' Hank
If you have to drop the tank, find a friend with a hydraulic
motorcycle jack. You can lay a couple boards on it to get it
configured the way you want it without damage to the tank.
Hank
Lone Haranguer
I seem to recall a post some years ago where an RVer just installed an outside
fuel pump, rather than go through the misery and expense of an in-tank
replacement. Most garages won't touch a tank removal job because their
insurance company takes a very dim view of the project.
I would scour auto parts stores for a replacement pump which can simply be
mounted in-line.
This URL shows several kits that may work.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/fuel_pumps/fuel_pumps_main.shtml
LZ
anne watson
Double check that there is an access plate accesable from the top.
Make sure the problem is the pump itself, not the electrical connections
leading to the tank..
If not, time to drain the tank , rent a transmission jack and find enough
blocking to support it all as it is coming down.
It was $500.00 to have my MH tank dropped so they could replace the rotted
gasline hose for the generator. The repair guy said most of the cost was
labor to drain the tank.
Good luck
Anne
"Frank Howell" <fpho...@usermail.com> wrote in message
news:4b81534c$0$12568$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
Elliot Richmond
<fpho...@usermail.com> wrote:
>Has anyone ever changed out a fuel pump on a E350 cutaway chassis, with a
>Ford 460 engine with a 40 gal aft of rear axel fuel tank? The fuel pump is
>in the fuel tank.
Not that one, but I did replace the fuel pump on my G20 van with a 33
gallon fuel tank. As others have suggested, lowering the fuel tank is
the tricky part. I used a couple of scissors jacks (one from the van
and one from my Honda, and a couple of boards. It was somewhat of a
balancing act, but manageable.
Once on the ground. it was a simple matter to unhook the plumbing and
replace the fuel pump.
Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
William Boyd
> Has anyone ever changed out a fuel pump on a E350 cutaway chassis, with a
> Ford 460 engine with a 40 gal aft of rear axel fuel tank? The fuel pump is
> in the fuel tank.
>
deed. Just don't forget to have as little fuel as you can.
--
BILL P.
&
DOG
I Have been to places and done
things that the average man has
only dreamed of.
Squire
wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2010 07:37:46 -0800, "Frank Howell"
>
A mechanic I know says it's easier to raise the bed on a truck and
fix the pump, than to drop the tank..Check how the bed is fastened
down.
Eddy
Steve Wolf
hold in the floor under the couch and doing it from above. Worked
great. Beat the heck out of lowering the tank. Just patched the hole
and tacked the carpet back down.
Steve
www.wolfswords.com under the motorhome link
Frank Howell
Thanks, all replys appreciated.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
I have seen that route taken, but I am going to go with OE Ford replacement
parts. Also I have a RV repair shop lined up in case I decide it's too much
work. The cheapest ford replacement fuel pump is $275, with most places
charging in the mid $300.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
Thanks for the advice. I wouldn't dream of dropping that fuel tank without
first emptying it and then using a jack system to lower it.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
Thanks Anne, but I replaced my hose to the generator when I replaced it with
a new Onan. This is a heat problem that only comes about when temps are
above 95 degrees. After it cools down it starts right up again, only to die
again when warmed up. Below that temp, it is never a problem. Not engine
overheating and not electrical.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
That's a new one. Never thought of that. I don't suppose you used a torch
for that hole cutting. :-) Since I don't know where the access plate is, I
am some what shy about attempting that.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
That's how I envision it. It appears jacks and emptying the tank are the
key.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
Well this is really on a Tioga MH, which is on an E350 cutaway chassis.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
> Frank Howell wrote:
>> Has anyone ever changed out a fuel pump on a E350 cutaway chassis,
>> with a Ford 460 engine with a 40 gal aft of rear axel fuel tank? The
>> fuel pump is in the fuel tank.
>>
> I pride my self on being smart enough to have the dealer do the dirty
> deed. Just don't forget to have as little fuel as you can.
I might go that route, but the price tag with fuel pump would be around
$900, so I am looking at all options.
--
Frank Howell
William Boyd
it on. :-)
Lone Haranguer
LZ
anne watson
fairly constant.
I have done quite a study on tank mounted fuel pumps since mine quit in my
Sidekick. Twice I was able to get it going by waiting a few minutes, /
The third time, I had it towed to my mechanic and he could not get it to
fail.
Since I tow it, I said , just replace it. But of course dropping the tank
in a Sidekick is a lot easier than in a MH.
His only suggestion was to bang the tank with a 2 by 4, which might slosh
the gasoline around enough to make the pump work again.
Thank God, for Good Sam Towing insurance.
Anne
Max
news:7udp0n...@mid.individual.net...
An electric fuel pump would likely be a better choice. Since his rig has a
fuel pump *in the tank* there probably isn't an opening on the side of the
engine for a mechanical fuel pump. I put an electric pump on one of my
F250s, not because of the failure of the factory pump but because under hard
acceleration (or climbing a steep hill) the pump couldn't supply enough
fuel. The (auxiliary) electric pump solved the problem.
I personally wouldn't hesitate to drop the tank. Those tanks aren't that
heavy if they're drained.
Max
Tom J
In case you don't know, those in tank pumps rely on being covered in
fuel to keep them cool. I never run mine lower than about 5 gallons
left in the tank.
Tom J
BrianAlex
> Frank Howell wrote:
> > anne watson wrote:
> >> jumping in here like I was an expert. Grin.
> >> Double check that there is an access plate accesable from the top.
>
> >> Make sure the problem is the pump itself, not the electrical
> >> connections leading to the tank..
>
> >> If not, time to drain the tank , rent a transmission jack and find
> >> enough blocking to support it all as it is coming down.
>
> >> It was $500.00 to have my MH tank dropped so they could replace the
> >> rotted gasline hose for the generator. The repair guy said most of
> >> the cost was labor to drain the tank.
> >> Good luck
> >> Anne
> >>news:4b81534c$0$12568$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> >>> Has anyone ever changed out a fuel pump on a E350 cutaway chassis,
> >>> with a Ford 460 engine with a 40 gal aft of rear axel fuel tank?
> >>> The
> >>> fuel pump is in the fuel tank.
>
> >>> --
> >>> Frank Howell
>
> > Thanks Anne, but I replaced my hose to the generator when I replaced
> > it with a new Onan. This is a heat problem that only comes about
> > when
> > temps are above 95 degrees. After it cools down it starts right up
> > again, only to die again when warmed up. Below that temp, it is
> > never
> > a problem. Not engine overheating and not electrical.
>
> In case you don't know, those in tank pumps rely on being covered in
> fuel to keep them cool. I never run mine lower than about 5 gallons
> left in the tank.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
One other thing; I believe that some in-tank pumps have a "sock"
filter in the intake which will clog if enough dirt,rust,flakes
etc.get to it.This will give the APPEARANCE off a bad pump. I don't
know what signs you have,but you should have the pressure checked at
idle. There is also a regulator and a filter further along (outside of
the tank) that can cause the same problems as a bad pump.Check these
first,,but if you have to lower the tank just have a second set of
hands to lower it.
Jim Corey
> Has anyone ever changed out a fuel pump on a E350 cutaway chassis, with a
> Ford 460 engine with a 40 gal aft of rear axel fuel tank? The fuel pump is
> in the fuel tank.
>
I replaced the fuel pump in my Southwind, Ford 460 F53 Chassis, with an
external pump. Left the old one in the tank. Been going fine for at
least a couple of years. Not the place for a cheapie Kragan/Pep Boys
pump, though. Much easier and less costly than replacing the in-tank
pump. Ford had a lot of problems with that arrangement.
--
Jim Corey
'91 Southwind
'63 Corvair Convertible toad
Frank Howell
Thanks for the tip, but I have been aware of that aspect and both times the
engine quit, it was half or better full.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
My thinking exactly, but since it has only happened in temps of 95+, I have
to examine all theories. The first time it happened was at an intersection
waiting for light to change. Temp was 104. It took me over 45 minutes to get
to a store with yellow pages looking for RV shop. By the time I found it and
made sure they were open and got back to the MH, it started up, but by the
time I got to the shop it started sputtering and died again, so I left it
there for repair. A week later they said it was fixed as they replaced the
ignition control module. Cool I said. Well a year latter driving to the top
of a summit in 95 degree weather the same thing happened. I was lucky in
that this was a 2 lane windy mountain road with very few places to pull off,
but when it started sputtering low and behold there was a wide area to pull
over. I called Good Sam and they could only send out a mechanic on wheels,
which was better then nothing. Since it was a 2 hour window when he would
get there, I unhooked the Saturn and we drove into the nearest town and
rented a motel room for the night. I then went back to the MH and of course
it started right up. So that was confirmation that this was a heat related
problem. The engine was not overheating as I know what an overheated engine
smells like and my gauges are accurate enough and subsequent use of MH in
cooler weather, I can drive it for hours without any problems.
The mechanic got there shortly and I explained the problem and he said it's
probably the fuel filter. Well since I had never changed it since the 6
years I owned it, it sounded possible. But of course I had to ask him how
would the temperature effect the filter? I don't remember his exact answer,
but it sounded more like guessing to me, but he did change the filter and
the old one didn't show any signs of being clogged up. That was in 2007 and
it has not died on me since, but I have not had it in weather greater then
85 degrees.
Subsequent investigation on the internet lead me to believe that the fuel
pump was the most likely suspect. From the following links.
http://tinyurl.com/yeqo43d
When I lived in CA, I had this MH in the Owens Valley on a regular basis and
it and the Mojave Desert, had100 degree temps all the time and we dove with
no problems.
The only other difference is in Oregon we now have Ethanol blended gas.
Don't know if that makes a difference, but doubt it.
--
Frank Howell
Lone Haranguer
in the winter of 87-88.
I was driving a 1983, 33' Itasca, with a 454 Chevy, still burning leaded
regular. In Guthrie, OK I got some fuel at a '66 station that had a lot of
water in it. A hundred yards from the station we had a major explosion and
blew both mufflers apart. I was right at the bottom of the on ramp for I-35,
both shoulders were soft mud and I had no option but to continue up the ramp.
The engine was backfiring and had no power but I managed to get up the ramp
in low gear and and make it to another exit only a few miles down I-35. There
was an RV park within a mile of the exit and we pulled in. They had a small
store and I bought 5 cans of Heet, which was all they had. I dumped it into
the tank and the next morning stopped at another station to fill up with fuel.
The engine ran OK but after a few hundred miles would lose power and come to
a stop.
After letting it cool, it would start up again. I stopped at quite a few
Chevy dealers but couldn't duplicate the problem. We limped all the way
across west Texas in that fashion and I don't know how many times I had the
doghouse cover off. I did learn by trial and error that if I took the
electronic ignition out, put it in the freezer to speed cooling, that I could
get going again in less than 20 minutes. I fashioned a ring out of heavy
copper wire and put it below the ignition unit, to slow heat transfer. That
was a big help and eventually we reached El Paso. I found a shop to work on
it, but as usual it ran fine when it was cool. They did install a fuel pump
which they thought was the problem but ignored my request to replace the
electron ignition. So we motored on down the road and soon the problem
returned. I took a long walk and found someone willing to let me use their
phone. I called the shop we had left shortly before and told them where we
were and to bring along an electronic ignition. Hours later they showed up,
replaced the ignition and we were on our way. The mechanic was surprised to
find the copper ring in the ignition housing and I explained how it came to be
there. Continued our trip all the way to Nogales and back to MN without
further engine problems.
Just one backfire can damage the electronic ignition to where it ceases to
function as designed when it heats up. After that incident I always carried a
spare ignition.
LZ
mickey
wrote:
> William Boyd" <"William Boyd wrote:
Here is some useful info if you are not aware of it now. Oh, don't think
you mentioned what yrs this is.
You most likely will have 2 fuel pumps on this rig. One in the tank and
another mounted on the frame side rail. My second pump is mounted almost
underneath the drivers seat, next to the fuel filter.
The fuel pump you get from the factory is going to most likely be the
whole shebang, pump/sending unit, complete unit that drops into the tank.
After market, one can just buy the pump itself. Not hard to swap out just
the pump. With that said, the sending unit is pretty pee poor qlty (at
lest is was for my auto). Not the normal wire wound type unit but just a
trace on a pc board. They wear through/fail. Sending unit is NOT
available by itself or wasn't when I had mine fail on the car.
Just checked out AutoZone and they have several offerings. Pump for 1T
van/40 gal tank, listed at $85. The whole assy @$200. Likely to find the
pump in stock but whole assy needs to be ordered.
Seem to recall back in the 90's Ford was having a lot of problems with
failed fuel pumps. Seem to recall problems occurred at high amb temps.
Pump had to be redesigned.
Mickey
Chuck Norris
Back in the early 80's, a buddy of mine was fighting a similar
problem. The conclusion was 'vapor lock'. Suggested he replace the
in line fuel filter. He did so but shortly it was doing the same
thing. He fought this for a year until he had a breakdown on the road
near an old auto service shop. He managed to get there and the dirty,
greasy 65YO mechanic said, "Did you replace this filter?" pointing at
a filter nested above some framing. He knew that some trucks had this
additional filter. Even Chevy didn't seem to know about it. He
replaced the filter and never had another problem.
--
Come voting time ask yourself;
Am I any better off than I was a year ago?
Chuck Norris
JerryD(upstateNY)
Get the factory pump.
Even if it is $200.00 more.
Buy a cheap pump and save $200.00 but then have to spend $900.00 next year
to replace the cheap pump.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)
"mickey" <mic...@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:op.u8jir...@desktop.domain.actdsltmp...
clay
>...
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> One other thing; I believe that some in-tank pumps have a "sock"
> filter in the intake which will clog if enough dirt,rust,flakes
> etc.get to it.This will give the APPEARANCE off a bad pump. I don't
> know what signs you have,but you should have the pressure checked at
> idle. There is also a regulator and a filter further along (outside of
> the tank) that can cause the same problems as a bad pump.Check these
> first,,but if you have to lower the tank just have a second set of
> hands to lower it.
Been there, done that.
An obvious symptom is the motor will run for a few minutes then stall.
Wait 15 minutes, it will run again... for a few minutes.
When the pump is not sucking, the 'sock' expands and lets some fuel
through. The pump sucks and collapses the sock. No more fuel gets through.
clay
>...
>
>
> An electric fuel pump would likely be a better choice. Since his rig
> has a fuel pump *in the tank* there probably isn't an opening on the
> side of the engine for a mechanical fuel pump. I put an electric pump
> on one of my F250s, not because of the failure of the factory pump but
> because under hard acceleration (or climbing a steep hill) the pump
> couldn't supply enough fuel. The (auxiliary) electric pump solved the
> problem.
>
> I personally wouldn't hesitate to drop the tank. Those tanks aren't
> that heavy if they're drained.
>
> Max
Only downside to electric fuel pumps...
They run as long is the ignition is on. If one is unfortunate enough to
tip their coach on it's side it'll pump fuel out of the motor.
May not be an issue with injected motors. I have no experience with those.
Gravity or upset switches are available that kill the ignition when tipped.
Saw one a guy made himself using a round 1 pound fishing weight and a
piece of string attached to a switch. Simple but effective.
mickey
<m...@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> Frank,
> Get the factory pump.
> Even if it is $200.00 more.
> Buy a cheap pump and save $200.00 but then have to spend $900.00 next
> year
> to replace the cheap pump.
>
Humm, my after market pump lasted as long as the factory pump did. By
going to an after market pump you're not forced to also buy the sending
unit and all the metal components that comes with the factory assembly.
Even in an after market unit buying those extra components you may not
need mores than doubles the price.
Mickey
Frank Howell
Well the only similarity between the two is that they were both motorhomes.
No backfires. In 104 degree heat, I would only be able to go about 5 miles
after cooling down before sputtering and dying. Since the ingnition control
module was changed, I don't think it's a ignition problem. But for all I
know it could have been the under the chassis fuel filter.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
When I put in the VIN number in auto parts replacement sites, it only comes
up with one fuel pump. I did read about the redsign of the fuel pump due to
high rate of failures.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
> Frank,
> Get the factory pump.
> Even if it is $200.00 more.
> Buy a cheap pump and save $200.00 but then have to spend $900.00 next
> year to replace the cheap pump.
>
>
Jerry, that's my plan. If I have to go through taking down the fuel tank or
pay the labor to do it, I am not going to replace it with after market one.
The PFS 27 is priced at anywhere from $275 to $400, but the lower priced
after market ones more then likely not an equivalent to the PFS 27. I can
find Motocraft pumps for E350's with 460's and 40 gal tank that have a
different part number and lower cost, but that tells me the applications are
not interchangable as only the PFS 27 comes up with my VIN number.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
Do those symptoms happen in high ambient temps?
--
Frank Howell
Carl A. in FL
>
> Well the only similarity between the two is that they were both motorhomes.
> No backfires. In 104 degree heat, I would only be able to go about 5 miles
> after cooling down before sputtering and dying. Since the ingnition control
> module was changed, I don't think it's a ignition problem. But for all I
> know it could have been the under the chassis fuel filter.
>
Many years ago I had a car that simply would not go more than about 5
miles before shutting down. Turned out to be a faulty pollution control
valve. It that a possibility here?
--
Carl A. in FL
http://sky.prohosting.com/chainfl/index.htm
clay
In my case temperature was not relevant. Drove it a couple days and
nights before blowing it up and having to rebuild it. 80's in the day,
60's at night.
Dirty sock is not likely unless it's a very old tank and/or has had bad
fuel (enough water to rust) in it or foreign gunk introduced into it (my
case.)
A problem related to high ambient temps suggests vapor lock. That will
happen trying to pull hot fuel long distances.
You sure that Ford doesn't have a pump at both ends?
Frank Howell
Was that only on hot days? I really don't think so, as I used my motorhome
in '08 and'09 without any problems, but of course the hottest days were in
the high eighties.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
As best that I can tell, only one pump. I might pursue the vapor lock
scenario. I haven't really looked into that aspect as the 5 years I had in
SO Cal, I drove it on a regular basis through the Mojave Desert on the way
to the Owens Valley and it was over a 100 most of the time and never any
problems. But I might have to look at the fuel line route and see if there
is any tale-tell signs of heat shielding that has deteriorated and/or if
ethanol blended fuel changes the properties of the fuel in higher
temperatures.
--
Frank Howell
clay
> clay wrote:
>>>...
>>> Do those symptoms happen in high ambient temps?
>>
>> In my case temperature was not relevant. Drove it a couple days and
>> nights before blowing it up and having to rebuild it. 80's in the day,
>> 60's at night.
>> Dirty sock is not likely unless it's a very old tank and/or has had
>> bad fuel (enough water to rust) in it or foreign gunk introduced into
>> it (my case.)
>>
>> A problem related to high ambient temps suggests vapor lock. That will
>> happen trying to pull hot fuel long distances.
>> You sure that Ford doesn't have a pump at both ends?
>
> As best that I can tell, only one pump. I might pursue the vapor lock
> scenario. I haven't really looked into that aspect as the 5 years I had in
> SO Cal, I drove it on a regular basis through the Mojave Desert on the way
> to the Owens Valley and it was over a 100 most of the time and never any
> problems. But I might have to look at the fuel line route and see if there
> is any tale-tell signs of heat shielding that has deteriorated and/or if
> ethanol blended fuel changes the properties of the fuel in higher
> temperatures.
>
Plugged filters.
Rubber fuel lines that have gone soft or the insides separated from the
outsides so the inside collapses and the outside looks fine.
Silly screen on the fuel inlet at the carb. (carb or injected?)
Doesn't take much restriction to put it over the top when fuel is near
the vapor point.
Carl A. in FL
stranded)every night for a week (February, New Jersey winter) after
driving about three miles. Dealer could never find out anything wrong
since whenever his tow truck arrived, the engine had cooled enough to
start without problems and they would drive the car to my home, which
was another 2 miles away. In frustration, insisted finally that a
mechanic meet me at the office parking lot and drive my car to my home.
As expected, the car stalled after about three miles (when the engine
reached normal operating temp) and would restart about 30 min later.
HTH
Hustlin' Hank
>
> Back in the early 80's, a buddy of mine was fighting a similar
> problem. �The conclusion was 'vapor lock'. �Suggested he replace the
> in line fuel filter. �He did so but shortly it was doing the same
> thing. �He fought this for a year until he had a breakdown on the road
> near an old auto service shop. �He managed to get there and the dirty,
> greasy 65YO mechanic said, "Did you replace this filter?" pointing at
> a filter nested above some framing. He knew that some trucks had this
> additional filter. �Even Chevy didn't seem to know about it. �He
> replaced the filter and never had another problem.
>
> Chuck Norris-
I think it sounds more like vapor lock too. Usually, but not always,
fuel pumps are either good or bad. Same with ignitons. Vapor lock
usually happens when temps are high. He should check out the current
remedies for vapor lock before he goes to the expense of replacing the
fuel pump.
Vapor lock can occur for many reasons and is a common problem. A
couple of rememdies that come to mind are rerouting fuel lines away
from places that produce heat (exhaust, engine). Installing a plate
between carb and manifold. Wrapping fuel line in insulation. Changing
thermostat to a little cooler one. Making sure air flows across the
engine. I am sure there are other steps also.
Hank
Frank Howell
> On Feb 22, 1:43?pm, Chuck Norris <hamguy1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Back in the early 80's, a buddy of mine was fighting a similar
>> in line fuel filter. ?He did so but shortly it was doing the same
>> thing. ?He fought this for a year until he had a breakdown on the
>> road near an old auto service shop. ?He managed to get there and the
>> dirty, greasy 65YO mechanic said, "Did you replace this filter?"
>> pointing at a filter nested above some framing. He knew that some
>> about it. ?He replaced the filter and never had another problem.
>
>>
>> Chuck Norris-
>
>
> I think it sounds more like vapor lock too. Usually, but not always,
> fuel pumps are either good or bad. Same with ignitons. Vapor lock
> usually happens when temps are high. He should check out the current
> remedies for vapor lock before he goes to the expense of replacing the
> fuel pump.
>
> Vapor lock can occur for many reasons and is a common problem. A
> couple of rememdies that come to mind are rerouting fuel lines away
> from places that produce heat (exhaust, engine). Installing a plate
> between carb and manifold. Wrapping fuel line in insulation. Changing
> thermostat to a little cooler one. Making sure air flows across the
> engine. I am sure there are other steps also.
>
> Hank
Hmm, your suggestion does have merit. Although I have seen anecdotal on the
net pointing to the fuel pump replaced as the solution, I might also try
installing heat insulation around the fuel line that goes over the manifold
area and any other spot that looks like it could be exposed to heat. The
only problem is that in order to verify it is fixed, I would have to take
the MH out on a run in temps over 100 degrees, which can be a challenge in
Oregon and pick a route with safe area to pull over in case it wasn't fixed,
another challenge in Oregon.
--
Frank Howell
Hustlin' Hank
The
> only problem is that in order to verify it is fixed, I would have to take
> the MH out on a run in temps over 100 degrees, which can be a challenge in
> Oregon and pick a route with safe area to pull over in case it wasn't fixed,
> another challenge in Oregon.
>
> --
> Frank Howell-
Wouldn't you have to do that anyway after you spend 1K+ on a new pump?
Or, are you POSITIVE it is the pump?
Personally, I doubt you see many 100 degree days. Since everything
works fine up to that point, why spend $1K+ on something you're not
POSITIVE of? Logic tells me to spend $10 on insulation and maybe a
little air foil under the front to add air to the engine compartment
when moving. I think I saw a video about adding an air foil type
thingy. What do you hve to lose?
Hank <~~~voice of financial reasoning....better known as a tight-
ass :-)
Frank Howell
I might just get me a tin foil hat. :-) I am going to examine the fuel line
route and see if I can add heat insulation. If I go east in Oregon, I will
see 100 degree days and this is what I want to have the ability to do, with
safety and also without interruption. Keep in mind, most of Oregon is 2
lanes with water ditches on both sides. Another thought, since I have not
had the MH out in higher temps, since the fuel filter was changed, I just
might try to do a controlled test drive if we get some 100 degree days. When
it died in Sandy Oregon it was 104 and it happened at a stop light, so if
those conditions occur, I will try to find an area where I can just drive in
a large circle or square, and simulate stopping at signals to build up some
heat and see what happens. Under those conditions, I should be able to to
that for an hour without dying and if so the the fuel filter and/or
insulation was the fix.
--
Frank Howell
JerryD(upstateNY)
From Google..................
I've never heard of it happening on a setup with an in-tank fuel pump,
carburetor or FI. Because the fuel is constantly circulating, it never gets
that hot, and the high pressure in the system (esp. with multi-port FI)
keeps the fuel from boiling.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)
Frank Howell
Thanks Jerry
I guess I'll have to give more thought about how to solve this problem. One
thing I have heard about my 1990 Ford 460 engine(which I havn't verified) is
that it is TBI or throttle body injection which injects fluid where the old
carburetor used to be. I don't know if this differs from more modern FI
systems or not.
--
Frank Howell
Max
Throttle body injection (TBI) was the precursor to the multi-port systems.
The fuel injector(s) are in the ...........throttle body.
If your engine has what looks like a carburetor, it has TBI. Having said
that, Ford changed from TBI to Multi-port systems on *most* of their
gasoline engines in 1986.
A "multi port" system was the next iteration of fuel injection. Injectors
are installed in the intake ports of the engines.
The much improved system is the "direct injection" system where the
injectors are installed in the combustion chamber.
Diesel engines have direct injection and many new cars are being fitted with
the system.
Max
Frank Howell
Max if the MPI system considered a high pressure system? Could that system
be susceptible to vapor lock?
--
Frank Howell
Max
Vapor lock in a MPI system is *very* unlikely. "High" is a relative term in
fuel injection systems but to answer your question, the pressure in a MPI
system is high enough to overcome vapor lock.
I would be highly skeptical of a vapor lock in your case. Can you get
someone to do a scan on your rig? If they can identify a code it would be a
big help.
Good luck in your quest for a solution.
Max
JerryD(upstateNY)
considered a high pressure system ? Could that system be susceptible to
vapor lock ?
I doubt it very much.
With the old cars, the fuel pump was up front and "sucked" the fuel up to
the engine.
The fuel pump could pump much more fuel than the engine needed so the fuel
sat in the fuel line, near the engine, where it got hot and vaporized.
When the vapor got to the pump, the pump lost it's prime and couldn't pump
any gas.
The fuel injected engines have the fuel pump in the tank where it stays cool
and they have a return fuel line, so any fuel the pump pumps and the engine
doesn't use is returned to the fuel tank.
It does not sit in the fuel line and get hot.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)
mickey
The 1990 injection in this chassis is a multiport system. Yes, the fuel
is continually pumped through the fuel delivery system and pressure is
close to 30psi.
Vaporlock is highly unlikely but, back when this problem was a current
issue, vaporlock was mentioned.
Frank, don't overlook the second fuel pump and filter mounted on the frame
rail I mentioned before.
--
Mickey
Frank Howell
Thanks. Are there codes stored that do not light up the "check engine"
light?
Any thoughts if a clogged fuel filter could cause sputtering and finally
dying in hot weather and then after about a 1/2 hour or so, start right up
and continue on, only to repeat the same sequence, but if started up in
cooler temps it never develops that trouble, just keeps running. I know
that's a mouthful.
If a clogged fuel filter can cause the above scenario, then to make sure
that it is really fixed, I would have to take the MH out on a hot day and
drive around and see if it dies, but I am skeptical if a clogged filter can
do that only in hot weather.
But then again I am not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
Back to the drawing board.
--
Frank Howell
Max
> Max wrote:
> Thanks. Are there codes stored that do not light up the "check engine"
> light?
Not likely but possible. The ECMs at the time weren't nearly as
sophisticated as they are now.
I used to get "Check Engine" lights when there was nothing wrong.
> Any thoughts if a clogged fuel filter could cause sputtering and finally
> dying in hot weather and then after about a 1/2 hour or so, start right up
> and continue on, only to repeat the same sequence, but if started up in
> cooler temps it never develops that trouble, just keeps running. I know
> that's a mouthful.
>
> If a clogged fuel filter can cause the above scenario, then to make sure
> that it is really fixed, I would have to take the MH out on a hot day and
> drive around and see if it dies, but I am skeptical if a clogged filter
> can do that only in hot weather.
> But then again I am not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination.
>
> --
> Frank Howell
Just to rule out a clogged filter...................they're not at all
difficult to change out. I change the ones on my vehicles every 10,000 mile
whether they need it or not. But I have to agree with your assessment that
a clogged filter wouldn't just present problems when it's *hot*.
And it doesn't seem to me that a bad fuel pump would only be "bad" when it's
hot either.
Are you saying that you *never* get a check engine light even when the
engine starts "sputtering"?
Max
Frank Howell
I'll have to remember to trace out the fuel line from the tank forward and
see where it goes. What I need are some railroad ties for ramps, so I have
some room to use a creeper. I just can't scoot on my back like I could when
I was younger. If I was to have a chance at changing out a fuel pump and
seeing exactly what I have as far as fuel pumps/filters, that would have to
be manditory acquistion.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
That's correct. The last time I got a "check engine" light was about 6 years
ago. I had someone scan it and it listed all the pollution gear and the
oxygen sensor. I changed all of it out, pvc valve included and it wasn't
until I changed out the Oyxegen sensor that the "check engine" stay off.
The last time the engine sputtered and died was 2 years ago in 95 degree
heat about a 1/4 mile from a summit. This was a fairly long grade and it
started to loose power and finally just died. An hour later after unhooking
toad, and getting hotel room in town 30 miles away, I came back and it
started right up. A short time later road mechanic dispatched by GSE changed
out the fuel filter. Since that time it's never died, but highest temps that
I used it, might have been in mid 80ties. First time temp was 104 on level
ground at stop light. Same symptoms, same wait time and started up, but died
while unloading MH at RV shop, temp still over 100. Shop changed out
ignition control module, but following year ('07)at the 1/4 from
summit..........again.
--
Frank Howell
Max
> I'll have to remember to trace out the fuel line from the tank forward and
> see where it goes. What I need are some railroad ties for ramps, so I have
> some room to use a creeper. I just can't scoot on my back like I could
> when I was younger. If I was to have a chance at changing out a fuel pump
> and seeing exactly what I have as far as fuel pumps/filters, that would
> have to be manditory acquistion.
>
> --
> Frank Howell
The auto parts suppliers (and Wal Mart, usually) have inexpensive ramps that
work really well.
I have two floor jacks but I still prefer my ramps.
Max
nothermark
JerryD(upstateNY)
problem.
Some engines have a connection in the fuel line, just before the fuel
injector/injectors, for a pressure gauge.
I would get a pressure gauge and leave it hooked up so when the engine died,
I could see if there was the proper pressure in the line.
If there isn't a connection, I would put a "T" in the fuel line so I could
mount the gauge.
Then I would have some spark plugs handy so when it died I could pull off 1
or 2 plug wires and put them on the spare plugs, turn the engine over and
see if you have spark. (make sure the plugs are grounded.
If you didn't want to mess with the fuel lines, you could just check the
spark plugs for spark when it died.
If you have spark, it has to be a (lack of) fuel problem.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)
JerryD(upstateNY)
work really well. I have two floor jacks but I still prefer my
ramps.<<<<<<<<<
You have to be real careful with jacks, jack stands and ramps on motor
homes.
NEVER use them without a piece of 3/4" plywood under them. (16" by 16" for a
jackstand and 16" by whatever length you need for the ramps)
I know a guy who was killed when a jackstand leg punched through the asphalt
driveway and dropped a school bus on him.
They make a whole bunch of ramps that are NOT able to hold the weight of a
MH.
It would be good to know what your front axle weighs so you an get ramps
strong enough.
Unless W-M makes a set for heavy duty trucks/motorhomes, I would shy away
from them.
Trying to save $50.00 on a set of ramps that will keep your $60,000 MH from
falling and killing you, doesn't make much sense.
--
JerryD(upstateNY)
Frank Howell
For motorhomes? Maybe I should look into HF.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
Railroad ties are back in the picture.
--
Frank Howell
Frank Howell
I did buy a fuel pressure gauge from HF for that very test. The problem is
that hooking it up is not as easy as I envisioned it to be. I really need
ramps to lift up the MH high enough to follow the fuel line all the way to
the engine, so that I have an exact idea of what I'm dealing with. The tee
might be the way to go.
About the plug wires, if the pressure gauge showed that the pressure had
gone down significantly, I would think that the fuel pump is the problem. If
I had the same pressure when I started out with, then I would agree that
it's an ignition problem, which I would have to turn to professional help
for.
--
Frank Howell
Lone Haranguer
which I would have to turn to professional help
> for.
>
You should have gotten professional help long ago, Frank.
LZ
Max
news:hmbdg7$rr$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
While Frank has admitted he isn't a *mechanic*, I have read enough of his
posts to recognize that he has good sense.
That would include sense enough to check the capacity of any ramp he
considers buying.
Max
Max
news:hmbdg7$rr$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
A few 2 x 10s would make some acceptable ramps as well.
mfff...@gmail.com
> Has anyone ever changed out a fuel pump on a E350 cutaway chassis, with a
> Ford 460 engine with a 40 gal aft of rear axel fuel tank? The fuel pump is
> in the fuel tank.
>
> --
> Frank Howell
whats up ... e350 rv.. hell the ake that wont end .
i have done everything else to avoid dropping the tank next to a leaky poop tank yuck... i got the god dam thing off only to find the parts guy gave me the wrong one .. its the the only solution to not getting fuel i put a external pump on it last year. but its not enough to feed that hungry 460 double pumper carb.. i had no choice but to spend the cash on this pos . change the fule pump solve y9ur problems be done with it
cheers