Need info?? Ram 1500 towing a 5th wheel trailer
WEN
tow a 24' Springdale 5th Wheel.
From what I can determine, it will work with out too much trouble but I
don;t want to get too close to the max vehicle ratings.
The 5w dry wt is 5760 with a carry capacity of 2120 bringing this to about
7880 GVWR.. Realistically, I can say that with the extra stuff in the
trailer we have, it should top at only about 6,000 to 6,200 lbs..
The Truck is a little bit beefy in power and suspension, with a GVWR of
6400, trailer towing capacity of 7600 and an overall rating (GCWR) of 12,500
lbs..
The only passengers are my wife and myself... maybe the two dogs on
occassion. We may be towing in the mountains sometimes. Since I have to
replace the exhaust system anyway, I'm thinking of having it converted to
dual exhaust which I think should help a little bit.. And adding a tranny
cooler. It doesn't have any trouble towing a 3600# Coleman Bayside which we
love, but we found a great deal on a 5w that'd we'd like to get if our
current truck can handle it until we upgrade as we originally planned next
year.. We can limit our towing to more flat terrain if need be until the
time to upgrade the TV comes around..
Anyone have any experience with a Ram 1500 and a 5th wheel?
Wayne & Judy
95 Dodge Ram 1500
01 Coleman Bayside
Richard Ferguson
should weigh the truck and 5er and see what they really weigh. Using
actual weights, the weight of people, personal gear, and fluids, you are
likely to be over the GCVWR. The pin weight may also push you over the
GVWR.
Brochure weights vs. Actual Weights
It can be confusing to try to figure out how big a slide-in
camper, trailer, or 5th wheel that a given truck or other
vehicle can haul. The brochure may talk in terms of payload
or towing capacity, dry weight (the weight of the unit
without fluids, people, or personal gear), GVWR (Gross
Vehicle Weight Restriction, the maximum that the vehicle
should weigh loaded), or GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle
Weight Restriction, the maximum that the vehicle and the
trailer should weigh combined). In many cases, the vehicle
tow capacity is a function of options such as axle ratio. A
little study should help all but the most math-challenged
understand these numbers.
However, there is a separate source of confusion and error
that comes not from all the technical terms and
calculations, but from the brochures. Generally, the
brochures give the most optimistic possible weight ratings
for their units. That is, the brochure refers to the
payload, towing capacity, or dry weight of a stripped unit
with no options. Obviously, most vehicles, trailers or RVs
are sold with options, and options add weight. The
difference between the brochure weight and the actual scale
weight can be hundreds of pounds.
For example, my F350, according to the dealer book, should
have had a payload of 5080 pounds. (The Ford brochure
listed a wide range of possible payloads). When I put the
truck on a scale, I had only a 4300 pound payload, a 700
pound difference. (GVWR - truck scale weight = actual
payload).
My Bigfoot camper had a brochure weight of 2600 pounds, a
build document that said, with options, my unit should weigh
2900 pounds, and an actual scale weight closer to 3100
pounds.
How much of the difference between the brochure weight and
the actual weight was due to options, and how much was
basically a lie on the part of the manufacturer? I suspect
some of each, but you would need to scale a lot of units,
including some with minimal options, to be sure. Some
people say that I should not say that the brochures lie,
that the weasel words in the brochures talk about "maximum
payload" or "typical weights". Let's just say that the
brochures exaggerate quite a bit. There are some class A
RV's that have an overloaded axle as soon as the driver and
spouse get in! (As documented in some of the magazine
reviews). Ronald Reagan said trust but verify; I just say
you should weigh the unit, to find out the degree of
untruth.
The important thing to keep in mind is that the brochure
weights are not accurate, and the inaccuracy will always be
in the direction of making it look like you can handle a
bigger RV than you really can.
On paper, I should have had a truck/camper combination with
plenty of spare capacity, and I expected that I would be
nowhere near the truck GVWR of 11,200 pounds. In practice,
loaded for a trip, I am within a couple of hundred pounds of
11,200 pounds, over or under, depending on the day.
Many people say that you should not plan to get the biggest
RV that the brochures say that you can tow, and instead plan
for 75% of the maximum for safety. I would have to agree
with this advice, based on my experience. Even if you
think, based on brochures, that you will only be at 75% of
the maximum, that 25% of "excess capacity" can be quickly
used up by the difference between scale weight and brochure
weight, fluids, personal gear, people, and other factors. In
my case, I lost more than 20% of the brochure payload before
I put anything in the RV, just because the brochures were
not accurate, so perhaps the 75% rule is not conservative
enough.
If you choose to go with a unit at more than 75% of the
maximum, then you should find a certified scale at a truck
stop or gravel pit. Weigh your truck (or a similar unit),
and the RV (or a similar unit), and add up the total weight.
Then add the weight of people, fluids (water weighs about 8
pounds per gallon, propane around 4 pounds per gallon), and
personal gear. The total weight of truck, trailer, people
and everything else should not exceed the GCVWR. If you are
looking at a slide-in camper, the total weight of truck,
camper, people, and everything else should not exceed the
GVWR.
If you are looking at a 5th wheel or a trailer, you
should also check the pin weight (tongue weight on
trailers). The towed vehicle's pin weight or tongue weight
adds weight to the truck, and goes against the truck GVWR.
The weight of the truck, people, personal gear in the truck,
and the pin or tongue weight should not exceed the truck
GVWR. In some cases, especially with 5th wheels being towed
by single rear wheel trucks, you can be within the GCVWR,
but exceeding the GVWR, due to pin weight, which can be as
high as 25% of the 5th wheel total weight. Tongue weight
on conventional trailers can be as high as 15% of the total
trailer weight. Tow vehicles have a maximum tongue weight,
specified by the tow vehicle manufacturer.
Anyway, do not take the brochures as the gospel truth,
especially when it comes to weight. Either get an RV 25% or
more under the truck capacity, or put everything on the
scale before you buy, including your family and pets.
One other warning which is perhaps obvious. Ignore any
statements by salemen that "such and such a truck can easily
handle such and such RV." Salemen are in the business of
selling, and unfortunately tend to say and think things like
"You don't need to pay any attention to the vehicle
manufacturer's recommendations." They often talk total
nonsense, like "You can tow a 30 foot 5th wheel with a half
ton truck, just buy some overload springs." Obvious, but
worth mentioning.
Richard Ferguson May 9, 2003
Don Dickson
"WEN" <nel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm looking for some technical help on whether my Dodge Ram 1500 5.2L will
> tow a 24' Springdale 5th Wheel.
> From what I can determine, it will work with out too much trouble but I
> don;t want to get too close to the max vehicle ratings.
>
> Since I have to
> replace the exhaust system anyway, I'm thinking of having it converted to
> dual exhaust which I think should help a little bit..
Take a look at getting a free flowing cat-back system (larger
diameter pipe and less restrictive muffler). It's a lot less
expensive and you don't have to worry about meeting emissions
levels. Also less restrictive does not mean more exhaust noise if
you pick the brand carefully. When I did that to my old GMC 1/2
ton the operating temp dropped 20F immediately. Most muffler
shops carry a line of these mufflers which have the same lifetime
warranty as their regular line.
And adding a tranny
> cooler.
An absolute necessity and don't scrimp on size.
>It doesn't have any trouble towing a 3600# Coleman Bayside which
>we love, but we found a great deal on a 5w that'd we'd like to
>get if our
> current truck can handle it until we upgrade as we originally planned next
> year.. We can limit our towing to more flat terrain if need be until the
> time to upgrade the TV comes around..
It's also a good idea to install at least a 3.73 rear axle gear
and pinion set (if you don't already have it). There are good
aftermarket parts which cost much less than OEM parts.
--
Don Dickson
Ralph E Lindberg
...
>
> Anyone have any experience with a Ram 1500 and a 5th wheel?
>
No, but I did tow with an almost identical F150. It was fine with a
3500 lb trailer, it was "ok" with a 5000 lb trailer. I say "ok" because
it had problems in the steepest grades (usually in Candada). I know tow
with an F250 with the V10
BTW, it's weight you need to worry about, not length
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://kendaco.telebyte.com/rlindber/RV
Glenn S.
We had a 21' sport cruiser boat that had a dry weight of about 4300 pounds.
Our Dodge Ram 1500 had the 5.2L V8, short bed, extended cab, and the 3.55
rear end. While most of the hills that we towed over were not big by
western standards, they were pretty steep for the east coast. I think it
was a max of 2800 ft with 6% inclines.
Basically, the Dodge was a DOG. It performed VERY poorly on our basic hills
and had to downshift beyond the 'overdrive off' function for the 'big' hills
of I-68 around Cumberland, MD. We traded it in for the Cummins with 4.10
gears and have had no problems with the truck or towing.
gds
Harpers Ferry, WV
"WEN" <nel...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:DSMLa.16347$Ei4....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
dpe...@juno_nospam.com
The jayco, fully loaded with all our junk, weighs between 6200 and 6400 pounds.
The truck is a 360, 4X2 with a 3.92 rear end.
We've never had any trouble towing, but we never tow with the overdrive on. On
our truck we turn right at 3000 rpm at 65 mph, which is about as fast as we ever
go. Since our tow rating is 8100 lbs we're well within range and right about at
the 75% rule of thumb.
We've towed around Colorado(Steamboat, Gunnison, Silverton, Ouray, Telluride,
etc), Wyoming, Montana (pulled up/down/across the Bear Tooth Highway), Idaho,
and up through the Canadian Rockies. We've never had any problem although going
up I-70 to the Eisenhower Tunnel for example, we wind up in 2nd gear at about 30
mph. BUT, at that speed we're still passing a lot of other motorhomes and other
truck/trailer combinations. BUT, its never been a requirement for us to pull up
a 7 or 8 or 9 percent grade at 65 mph so YMMV.
Your trailer is going to be a goodly bit heavier, and you've got the 318 instead
of the 360. I don't know which rear end you have, but if its the standard 3.55
you may have some problems in the mountains.
Jerry J
--
Jerry J
Halbert09
> You are pretty close to the limits, based on brochure weights. You
> should weigh the truck and 5er and see what they really weigh. Using
> actual weights, the weight of people, personal gear, and fluids, you are
> likely to be over the GCVWR. The pin weight may also push you over the
> GVWR.
> should also check the pin weight (tongue weight on
> trailers). The towed vehicle's pin weight or tongue weight
> adds weight to the truck, and goes against the truck GVWR.
> The weight of the truck, people, personal gear in the truck,
> and the pin or tongue weight should not exceed the truck
> GVWR. In some cases, especially with 5th wheels being towed
> by single rear wheel trucks, you can be within the GCVWR,
> but exceeding the GVWR, due to pin weight, which can be as
Is it really likely for the 5th wheel pin weight to be a problem on
3/4 and 1-ton single rear wheel trucks? Looking at current Ford
models for example, the heaviest trailer they recommend with SRW on
250's and 350's is 12,500#. At 20% pin weight that would be 2500# or
even at 25% which is very high, would be around 3100#. That weight in
the bed of a 2WD F350 SRW should be no sweat, most are rated to carry
close to 4000# and with the hitch forward of the axle a portion of the
weight is transfered to the front axle. If you're not exceeding the
maximun gross combination weight rating I find it hard to believe you
could exceed the gross vehicle weight or axle ratings with a properly
installed hitch. Of course with a 1/2 ton truck all bets are off.
dpe...@juno_nospam.com
>May??
Yeah... Problem is in the eye of the beholder... If he feels that getting
below 65 mph on an 8% grade is a problem he'll DEFINITELY have a problem.....
If, on the other hand, he is very comfortable going up grades at 20 mph in 1st
gear, he'll NOT have a problem. But he'll need to stay out of everybody elses
way... I DO know that I can't imagine actually trying to pull something that
weighed the 8100 pounds the Dodge says its capable of towing! Which, BTW, is
the same tow rating the 318 with the 3.54 rear end got...
RAM^3
news:338ccebe.03070...@posting.google.com:
> Is it really likely for the 5th wheel pin weight to be a problem on
> 3/4 and 1-ton single rear wheel trucks? Looking at current Ford
> models for example, the heaviest trailer they recommend with SRW on
> 250's and 350's is 12,500#. At 20% pin weight that would be 2500# or
> even at 25% which is very high, would be around 3100#. That weight in
> the bed of a 2WD F350 SRW should be no sweat, most are rated to carry
> close to 4000# and with the hitch forward of the axle a portion of the
> weight is transfered to the front axle. If you're not exceeding the
> maximun gross combination weight rating I find it hard to believe you
> could exceed the gross vehicle weight or axle ratings with a properly
> installed hitch. Of course with a 1/2 ton truck all bets are off.
>
A properly installed hitch only provides a safe connection - it doesn't
shift any weight to speak of: the most that your hypothetical 2500# pin
weight would shift to the front axle [if the center of the hitch is
placed 5" in advance of the rear axle on a truck with a 150" wheelbase]
would be 83 1/3 pounds - a neglegible amount.
FWIW, the offset distance is usually 3" or less.
A more likely scenario is that the GAWR for the rear axle will be
exceeded since the GVWR includes the _front_ as well.
By the time people add on all of their "goodies", including fuel tanks,
firewood, generators, etc., many may be closer to their rear axle limit
than they know.
On the other hand, many trucks are actually a lot heavier than published
numbers may indicate: mine, for example, had a "build weight" of 7,351#
according to the manufacturer. With me, a fifth-wheel hitch, and a full
tank of fuel aboard, it weighed in at 8,280 on a CAT scale. If it was a
3/4 ton or a SRW 1 ton with a 9,900# GVWR, I'd almost be out of capacity
before I even got hitched to the trailer.
As it is, I won't begin to worry until the pin weight goes over 2 tons.
I'll hit the 11.5 ton GCWR limit before that happens, and since my
trailer has a GVWR of 14,100#, I'll stick with that as my _actual_ limit.
No, I don't have a Ford.
Dan Overes
> I'm looking for some technical help on whether my Dodge Ram 1500 5.2L will
> tow a 24' Springdale 5th Wheel.
> From what I can determine, it will work with out too much trouble but I
> don;t want to get too close to the max vehicle ratings.
<snipped>
Personally, I wouldn't do it.
We pulled our existing trailer (4000 lbs without water) with a 1996 Dodge
Extended Cab 4x4 shortbox with the 5.2L and the results were less than impressive.
Flat land was OK, but any sort of an incline or headwind and the truck was hard
pressed to maintain speed. We only did it for one season before swapping tow
vehicles.
Now, we weren't pulling a fifth wheel, but I don't think that makes a huge
difference in this case. The issue we had was never towing stability but rather
weight.
--
Dan
2001 Dodge Ram 2500
2001 Mallard 19N
"My butt may be in the office, but my heart is in Kananaskis."
WEN
The 1500 I have has never given me any trouble towing the 3600+ lbs for the
popup plus the cargo in the bed, my wife and two dogs.
It pulls up grade quite well most of the time and having to slow down or
shift to a lower gear range is fine too.
The fifth wheel we are buying is a small 5th wheel and even loaded with
options wieghs in right around 6000#.. Since the requirements (or needs) for
cargo with the popup is differenet (less in fact), the total towed weight is
estimated to be less than 6500#.
After also talking with the factory for my particular model/yr. They have
assured me the truck will handle up to 7600# towing, and as long as I don;t
get close to the GCWR of 12,500#, I don;t see any problem.. I recently
weighed the truck by itself and it weighed in at 3612# as it sits.
With my wife, the hitch which is traded off wieght with the removal of the
sport roll/light bar, any cargo we carry, it looks like the total combined
weight will be right around 10,000# on avg.. Since we are planning to trade
up our TV in a year anyway, we'll pretty much reamin flat landers for the
time being, so grade will be less of a problem.
The information all of you have provided has been very helpful and your
cautions are also taken to heart. It all much appreciated.
And with a few minor improvements in performance, it looks like we are "go"
for a fifth wheel next week.. Maybe we'll cross paths sometime..
Cheers,
Wayne
"WEN" <nel...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:DSMLa.16347$Ei4....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
Jerry J
lbs as ready to tow with passengers? My Dakota is over 4200 lbs ready to
tow. On flat land (Wyoming) with a head wind I have had quite a bit of
trouble towing my 19' trailer at 65 mph.
Jerry J
95 Dakota 5.2 Club Cab, 4 WD, 5 sp.3.90
2001 Arctic Fox 19B
Hensley, --- yadda yadda
"WEN" <nel...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3gJMa.1550$aD6....@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
Larrie Malobenski
>The 1500 I have has never given me any trouble towing the 3600+ lbs for
>the popup plus the cargo in the bed, my wife and two dogs.
>The fifth wheel we are buying is a small 5th wheel and even loaded with
>options wieghs in right around 6000#.. Since the requirements (or needs)
for
>cargo with the popup is differenet (less in fact), the total towed weight
is
>estimated to be less than 6500#.
Yeah 3000# is a drop in the bucket, ya won't notice it at all!!!<G>
>Maybe we'll cross paths sometime..
>Cheers,
>Wayne
Yeah I'll keep a handful of flares handy when I see ya alongside the road
scratchen your head!
Beers!
Larrie
Tom Marik
scratchen your head! >>
Larrie,
Why are you so hard on him when his brother's family is still recovering from
the accident with the swaying Expedition?!
Tom
Dan Overes
> What type of Ram do you have? Is it a short wheel base and regular cab? 3612
> lbs as ready to tow with passengers? My Dakota is over 4200 lbs ready to
> tow. On flat land (Wyoming) with a head wind I have had quite a bit of
> trouble towing my 19' trailer at 65 mph.
Yeah, 3600 lbs seems light but nothing would surprise me. While it is not fair
to compare trucks because I have the much heavier diesel engine, my truck (long
box, extended cab, 2WD) weighs close to 6600 lbs when I am loaded and ready to tow.
Dan Overes
<snipped>
> After also talking with the factory for my particular model/yr. They have
> assured me the truck will handle up to 7600# towing, and as long as I don;t
> get close to the GCWR of 12,500#, I don;t see any problem.. I recently
> weighed the truck by itself and it weighed in at 3612# as it sits.
Heh. Naturally the factory will say that it will handle the towing. That is
like trying to find a RV dealer that will tell you the rig you want to buy is
too heavy for the tow vehicle you own. They may exist, but they are few and far
between.
<snipped some more>
> Since we are planning to trade
> up our TV in a year anyway, we'll pretty much reamin flat landers for the
> time being, so grade will be less of a problem.
That sounds like a good idea. Once you start getting that close to the max tow
ratings I wouldn't want to do any serious mountain driving.
> The information all of you have provided has been very helpful and your
> cautions are also taken to heart. It all much appreciated.
<snipped some more yet again>
Well, I'm glad that even though you choose to go against what most people
recommended that you still took the cautions to heart. I sincerely hope that we
are wrong and you are happy and safe with your combo until you trade in next year.
> And with a few minor improvements in performance, it looks like we are "go"
> for a fifth wheel next week.. Maybe we'll cross paths sometime..
Enjoy the new fiver. Cheers!
Jan Eric Orme
>That sounds like a good idea. Once you start getting that close to the max
>tow
>ratings I wouldn't want to do any serious mountain driving.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not only that, but if you read the fine print and exlusions etc. of
manufacturer's ratings you will find that the GVWR and GCVWR ratings go down
for each 1000' elevation over sea level. They know that the truck performance,
pulling capability and braking ability goes down accordingly. The higher you
get, the harder everything has to work, including the transmission, driveline
and brakes on long nasty downgrades.
This is why you will always hear the opinion here that you should restrict
trailer weights to 75% of the factory advertized rating. Things may be just
fine on flat straight low elevations. But, there is always a possible situation
you may/will get into that is way beyond those ideal conditions, unless you
decide you are going to limit your travel to Kansas and Nebraska!
If you have the slightest doubt, which you must if you posted here, then get a
bigger truck!
Jan Eric Orme
"Work like you don't need the money, love like you
have never been hurt and dance like nobody is watching!"