Center Console Advice (revisited)

Peter Neil

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Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99

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Hi All,

Just to let you know I have put in the time in DejaNews and couldn't find some
of my questions covered.

I'm looking to buy (probably new) a Center Console in the 20ft range also
somewhere around $20-22k. I will be using it primarily for fishing in and
around the Merrimack River in NE Massachusetts (Stripers and Blues) and also
for near shore dving in and around Gloucester/Rockport MA.

So while I want a relatively seaworthy boat I'm not interested in long range
offshore trips or capability (to be honest I'd rather pay for a charter and
take a real boat offshore). I also expect that I will keep this boat for quite
a while and so don't want to get something that will end up being too small.

So far I've checked out these these:

1. Trophy 1903 - good boat show price and lots for the money ($19k). *** Yes
I've read virtually every note in DejaNews in the many ongoing discussions
about Bayliner and took all that into account when I inspected this boat at the
show. Yes, it's not a Regulator but for my purposes it seems a solid enough
boat. ***

2. Key West 2020 CC - nice looking boat, some nice standard features but I'm
concerned that it only weighs in at 1700 lbs (even the Trophy is supposed to be
near 2700lbs!). Other than the weight for about $22k, before dickering, it
seems great.

3. Starcraft Expedition 2080 CC - probably the most seaworthy (and the biggest)
of the three but I've never seen or been on one before yesterday. Any opinions
or experiences ? They also include a lengthy list of standard features but the
prices would be pushing $23-24k.

I will be trying to talk to a dealer tomorrow about the Scout 202 Sportfish.
I've read lots of good things in here about them. How would this boat compare
to these others in layout, cost, etc. I'm especially concerned about hints
I've received that it is a relatively low boat with short gunnels and I'd feel
safer with the high(er) gunnels of the three above.

Opinions and comments please.

Thanks,

Peter.

JDavis1277

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Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99

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Peter,

If it is important to you to buy a new boat, go ahead and enjoy.

However, you can find a very much better boat for the $$ by buying a slightly
used higher quality boat along the lines of a Grady-White or Boston Whaler. I
don't wish to offend anyone, but the quality of boats like these is so much
better than the three you mentioned that they are really not comparable.

Although you would prefer to take a charter offshore, with the right 20 footer
or so, you could find out just how much fun offshore fishing can be from a
small boat. Compared to bottom fishing from a head boat, it's better than a
honeymoon. At least for us old codgers.

Whatever your decision, good luck and enjoy.

Butch

hkrause

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Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99

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1. The Bayliner Trophy does not weigh 2,700 pounds. Bayliner includes
the weights of its trailers and base engines on the Trophies in its
specs under "weight," whereas most other boat manufacturers list the
weights of their bare hulls, sans engines and obviously without a
trailer. If you subtract 500-700 pounds for the weight of a galvanized
trailer and four hundred pounds for an outboard...you'll see the
Bayliner weighs approximately the same as the other boats in its size.

BTW, *what* engine is included with that Bayliner? And what trailer?
These make a difference.

2. The Scout is a great boat. You'll love it. The Key West and the
Starcraft are also good, and have gotten good write-ups.

Before you decide, visit the dealers and jump around on the boats, pound
their sides, stand on the hatch covers, lean hard on the railings, see
what the hardware is made of, check for tinned wiring, see if there are
quality, non-proprietary switches or instruments, check fuel capacities,
see if there are piano hinges rather than short, cheaper hinges, et
cetera.

Of the boats you mentioned, I'd rank them:

1. Scout
2. Starcraft-Key West

Was there a third?
Don't think so.

Mike/ToySoldier

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Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99

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Pete...

Butch is right on the money. Take a look at a used Mako, Whaler,
Grady-White, Hydra-Sports, Contender or even an Edgewater... which is
the boat designed by the guy that designed the original Boston Whaler.
All these (my opinion only) are better quality, and in the long run...
better investments. Every Whaler I ever owned (3) I sold for more
than I paid!

The absolute best buy in a boat is a late model loaded boat where the
owner is moving up or getting out. I've never bought a new boat in my
life, and as long as you know what you're doing (surveying the boat)
or have someone qualified do it. Another possibility is to buy a
leftover... but the prices aren't always _that_ great.

Mike
--

Phoenix

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Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99

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Harry,

When you visit a dealer do they always cringe as they see you walking
towards the hatch? The hatch on my Regal (I think it is one of those
inexpensive Bomar Hatches, but I am not sure) will withstand my weight as I
walk over it, but I think if I jumped up and down on it I would fall
through. But maybe that is because I am just fatter than you are.

You comments about what to look for in a boat is a good example of what
someone should do when comparing boats. They all look so darn good in the
showroom, it is when you are actually using them that you see the difference
between one brand and another.

Boat/US will also send a 30 page guide for what to look for when comparing
boats, both new and used. For a free copy of the BOAT/U.S. Guide To Buying
and Selling A Boat, write Consumer Affairs, BOAT/U.S., 880 S. Pickett
Street, Alexandria, VA 22304. or call 703-461-2856

PS - I tell everyone not to walk on the hatch, not because I think it will
break, but because the boat is one of those damn bubble boats and I don't
want them to slip on it.
--
--
Jim

Don't look now, but your file is unzipped.

hkrause wrote in message <36EC238B...@erols.com>...

hkrause

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Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99

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Phoenix wrote:
>
> Harry,
>
> When you visit a dealer do they always cringe as they see you walking
> towards the hatch? The hatch on my Regal (I think it is one of those
> inexpensive Bomar Hatches, but I am not sure) will withstand my weight as I
> walk over it, but I think if I jumped up and down on it I would fall
> through. But maybe that is because I am just fatter than you are.

I was always the terror of the Jax boat shows. One of my dealer friends
used to say loudly, as I approached his display, "Oh oh...here comes
lard butt...bolt down those hatches!" The reality is, I can tell by
looking at the hatch whether I should step on it or not. I'll bet you
can, too.

> You comments about what to look for in a boat is a good example of what
> someone should do when comparing boats. They all look so darn good in the
> showroom, it is when you are actually using them that you see the difference
> between one brand and another.

I'd never buy a boat without an inwater trial of the identical model.

Eisboch

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Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99

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Ted Bobetsky wrote:
>
> I know, I know...the Bayliner always gets trashed but I'll give you my
> experience with it. I have used a 1903 Trophy guiding on Cape Cod for the
> past three seasons .....

Man, are *you* in for a hell of a ribbing ....

Eisboch
see the "Boats" of rec.boats at:
http://www.tiac.net/users/vpt/boats/

Skipper

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Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99

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Ted Bobetsky wrote:

> I know, I know...the Bayliner always gets trashed but I'll give you my
> experience with it. I have used a 1903 Trophy guiding on Cape Cod for

> the past three seasons and have had no trouble with it. The motor is a
> Force, again not a top level name but it has been very good to me with
> no malfunctions. The design of the boat was perfect for me as far as
> flyfishing goes. ...

> I've towed both a Whaler and Mako in to a harbor to save them from
> calling SEATOW.

> Good luck in your choice whatever you get.

> Good fishing...Capt. Ted Bobetsky (http://www.flyfishing-the-salt.com)

Outstanding website Captain. Fear it's going to give some folks in the
rec.boats NG a REAL headache. I particularly enjoyed the section
comparing the Trophy to flats boats.

--
Skipper

Don Pleu

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Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99

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How about an Edgewater? They have a web site. Or a used freshwater kept
Boston Whaler from say, Michigan?
Don

Peter Neil <pn...@mdc.net> wrote in article
<MJTG2.2253$Bd3....@newsfeed.slurp.net>...

> Thanks,
>
> Peter.
>
>

Phoenix

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Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99

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Slippy,
Do you really read anything ? Or do you just see the word Bayliner and
think "Boy this must be a great piece to troll for some Bayliner Bashers" .
In the last 2 weeks, in an effort to get you off your "Bayliner" thing, I
have asked you what kind of boating do you enjoy doing. This was not a
troll it was me trying to get you talking about boating and what you enjoy.
You always ignore it, I think you really don't enjoy boating, but do love to
troll for a fight.

What does the Captain say in the piece listed below that anyone would in
this newsgroup would disagree with.

copied from : http://www.flyfishing-the-salt.com
"There are many fine guides that fish with flats boats on the Cape. They do
indeed have an advantage over me by virtue of getting into skinnier water
than I can but that isn't the whole story. Pay attention, the following is
free advice: The flats boats can't travel very far off the flats unless it's
quite calm. They are simply not designed to take the rough water that
predominates on Cape Cod. My center console is a 19 foot deep vee with 120
HP which drafts 14 inches with the motor up. I have a new kicker motor in
case of a breakdown or if I stay too long on a falling tide and need it to
get me to deeper water before I can fire up the big engine. On Cape Cod Bay
I primarily launch at Sesuit Harbor and head to the flats at Brewster,
Wellfleet, Billingsgate Shoal and often west towards Barnstable Harbor and
even to Sandwich. Try that in a flats boat. When the fish are on Barnstable
flats it's great but the fish are never quite that dependable and if I were
a client I would not want to spend the whole charter drifting over the same
water. Boring city. Also, if you have ever been crossing the mouth of
Barnstable Harbor with a strong westerly wind you would never want to be in
a flats boat. Too scary and downright unsafe. My boat is equipped with all
the Coast Guard approved gear for chartering as well as electronic gear to
keep us safe and into fish."

--
--
Jim

10 days and 18 messages later, "Oh I understand now"

Skipper wrote in message <36EC6C3D...@dtc.net>...

hkrause

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Mar 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/14/99

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Phoenix wrote:
>
> Slippy,
> Do you really read anything ? Or do you just see the word Bayliner and
> think "Boy this must be a great piece to troll for some Bayliner Bashers" .
> In the last 2 weeks, in an effort to get you off your "Bayliner" thing, I
> have asked you what kind of boating do you enjoy doing. This was not a
> troll it was me trying to get you talking about boating and what you enjoy.
> You always ignore it, I think you really don't enjoy boating, but do love to
> troll for a fight.
>
> What does the Captain say in the piece listed below that anyone would in
> this newsgroup would disagree with.
>
> copied from : http://www.flyfishing-the-salt.com
> "There are many fine guides that fish with flats boats on the Cape. They do
> indeed have an advantage over me by virtue of getting into skinnier water
> than I can but that isn't the whole story. Pay attention, the following is
> free advice: The flats boats can't travel very far off the flats unless it's
> quite calm. They are simply not designed to take the rough water that
> predominates on Cape Cod. My center console is a 19 foot deep vee with 120
> HP which drafts 14 inches with the motor up.

So, what you are saying is that if you want to fish the flats and get
into the really skinny water, why, you buy a flats boat.

You know, that's the same conclusion all the Florida flats guides I know
reached. Want to fish the flats? Get yourself a flats boat.

Amazing, eh?

Ted Bobetsky

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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I know, I know...the Bayliner always gets trashed but I'll give you my
experience with it. I have used a 1903 Trophy guiding on Cape Cod for the
past three seasons and have had no trouble with it. The motor is a Force,
again not a top level name but it has been very good to me with no
malfunctions. The design of the boat was perfect for me as far as

flyfishing goes. Good storage and well laid out as far as open spaces,
especially behind the wheel if you take out the stupid seats on the
transom. I just never felt too comfortable betting my safety on someone
else's motor when you have no idea of the level of maintenance it received.
If you go used take the whole boat to a shop to check out the motor and
hull by people whom you trust to give you an honest opinion of its
condition. I have pounded the hell out of mine with no hull cracks or
anything falling apart. I did have to change some of the screws for bolts
with backing plates but with a few minor mods it is solid.
One thing that made me laugh is that around the Northeast Bayliner is
shunned but I had a client last year form Pennsylvania that said in his
neck of the woods Bayliners are the boats to have.
No question that Mako's and Whaler's seem to hold their value. Maybe the
hulls but a motor is a motor and always wear out no matter who makes it.
Perception often is what people care about, why do you think that
television ads for cars say nothing about the car but only show you how
cool you will look?

Rabidxbd

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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Grady 180
25k with 130 honda

Peter Neil

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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Hi,

I'll respond to several questions at once.

1. The Bayliner will come with a 125 Merc and a single axle with surge brakes
(don't know the brand and don't probably care as trailering will be relatively
limited). As part of the deal I'll also get a 5yr engine warranty and a $750
store certificate (even though it's limited to the dealer's store I can still
use it to pretty good advantage).

2. I've heard great things about Edgewater but didn't think they were in my
price range. If I were willing to go $5k higher I could probably get a pretty
decent Mako or Grady and we wouldn't be having this conversation. :-)

A couple of the things I really like about the three boats I listed originally
are the high gunnels and the engine well (less likely to get water up and
over the transon cut out into the cock pit). How does the 20ft Scout compare?
I went and saw an 18ft version in the dealer's yard and didn't like the low
cut out and no well for the engine. So, unless the boat drains extremely fast
it's wet feet time and that doesn't thrill me.

I also have a line on an 1996 Robalo 1820. No trailer or elctronics but they
seem to be willing to dicker a little on the price (it's a brokerage boat). I
couldn't get under the shrinkwrap yet but I do have one great concern. The eye
hook on the bow (to hook the trailer cable onto...) is slightly separated from
the hull itself. Can't tell exactly what caused it or whether there is any
internal damage but even if it could be put back together correctly what are
the chances that it's been there for a while and the internal foam is
wet or rotted (or whatever happens to that stuff when exposed to water for a
long period of time) ? Is this bad and/or dangerous ? I understand that
Robalo uses the internal foam not only for flotation but also for structural
integrity ala Whaler - certainly don't want to give any of that up.

Btw, I did get a chance to jump and walk around a sistership (a 150 Merc
instead of a 125 though) and I'd think this boat would be perfect. Big, safe
and lots of room for an 18ft'er. Opinions, comments ?

Thanks,

Peter.

Jeff

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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Scout, Scout, Scout. I can save you lots of time. I spent over a
year looking at boats, and the Scout 202 SF was the answer. Go look
at the other boats, then get on a Scout. Things are in the right
place. It has jump seats and grab rails for the aft passengers. It
has circuit breakers, not fuses. It has battery boxes that aren't in
the bilge, and you can easily get to them. The bilge...it's
gelcoated. You don't see any unfinished fiberglass in the boat. The
forward bilge compartment that is accessed through the console...it's
gelcoated also. Anchor locker...gelcoated.

Take the others for a ride. Then take the Scout for a ride. Mine
pops up on plane almost instantly. It slices through chop easily.
The gunwales do seem lower than some other boats, but you will
probably find that the Scout rides higher in the water due to the full
floatation.. The 202 SF drafts only 12" of water. Scout has full
level flotation, like Boston Whaler and Edgewater. Unsinkable design.
Much more economical than a BW or Edgewater. Dry ride.

I got a brand new 1999 with a 150 Yamaha (plenty of motor for this
boat!), dual axle aluminum trailer, bimini, bow cushion, swim
platform, CG package, 3 year motor warranty for not much more than
your price range. As far as resale value, in my area there is
currently a 1999 with 200 Yammy (that boat must fly, mine does over
50), t-top, 20 hours, and electronics for $29K, a 1996 with 175
Evinrude, bimini, trailer for $17.9K, and a 1997 with a 175 Evinrude,
T-top, electronics, trailer for $21.9K. They hold their value pretty
well.

Look at the other boats, then look at the Scout. Ride some of the
other boats, then ride the Scout. You will be impressed. I was, and
now I own one.

Jeff

Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers. Please respond in Usenet.

Bl...@nospam.com

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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Jeff wrote in message
---snip---

>The gunwales do seem lower than some other boats, but you will
>probably find that the Scout rides higher in the water due to the full
>floatation..

Can you clarify that ? How does full floatation affect the ride height
?(unless the hull if full of water)

--
Reply if needed
Blake.Marriner
at Worldnet.att.net

Jeff

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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The construction of the boat is similar to a Boston Whaler, it uses a
sandwich of foam between fiberglass layers. This is a lighter means
of constructing a boat. As such, you tend to find that full level
floatation boats ride higher in the water.

Example: The Trophy 1903 has a 2683 lb hull weight. The Scout 202 SF
has a 2000 lb hull weight. A heavier hull has to displace more water,
and may ride lower in the water, depending on hull design. However, a
heavier boat with less deadrise may indeed draft less water though.
Draft is certainly determined by more than weight and flotation,
though.

I probably shouldn't have made a blanket statement in my original
reply. Sorry.

hkrause

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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I buy into what you are posting, but the 1903 does not weigh 2700
pounds. It has that "spec" because of Bayliner's peculiar way of
compiling the statistic.

The Bayliner stat in question includes the hull weight, the trailer
weight and the engine weight. Subtract the trailer and engine and you
will find the 1903's hull weight is within the range of other boats its
size.

--

Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Guts: Putting the name "SYSOP" in your twit filter.

Jeff

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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On Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:45:52 -0500, hkrause <hkr...@erols-nospam.com>
wrote:

Why in the Hades do they do that? I cannot see on their web site that
they are including those weights into the specs.

hkrause

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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Maybe it is a way to get across the "tow weight" of the package. It is
different than what most other manufacturers put up.

Bl...@nospam.com

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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Jeff wrote in message <36ed2727....@news.mindspring.com>...

>On 15 Mar 1999 15:30:42 GMT, <Bl...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>Jeff wrote in message
>>---snip---
>>>The gunwales do seem lower than some other boats, but you will
>>>probably find that the Scout rides higher in the water due to the full
>>>floatation..
>>
>>Can you clarify that ? How does full floatation affect the ride height
>>?(unless the hull if full of water)
>>
>>--
>>Reply if needed
>>Blake.Marriner
>>at Worldnet.att.net
>>
>>
>>
>
>The construction of the boat is similar to a Boston Whaler, it uses a
>sandwich of foam between fiberglass layers. This is a lighter means
>of constructing a boat. As such, you tend to find that full level
>floatation boats ride higher in the water.
>
>Example: The Trophy 1903 has a 2683 lb hull weight. The Scout 202 SF
>has a 2000 lb hull weight. A heavier hull has to displace more water,
>and may ride lower in the water, depending on hull design. However, a
>heavier boat with less deadrise may indeed draft less water though.
>Draft is certainly determined by more than weight and flotation,
>though.
>
>I probably shouldn't have made a blanket statement in my original
>reply. Sorry.

Boston Whaler construction is not light weight. There are other construction
methods and materials that will produce a lighter hull. Take a look at
http://www.superboatonline.com/21MILLEN.htm as just one example. 1500 lbs
with an option for higher tech layup that yields lighter weight still

I have no knowledge of the trophy weight, however others have commented that
the weight they show on their website (2693) consists of hull, engine and
trailer ?

I am just trying to show that there is no relation between floatation as you
describe it and how much water the hull displaces at rest.

Jeff

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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On 15 Mar 1999 17:04:54 GMT, <Bl...@nospam.com> wrote:

>I am just trying to show that there is no relation between floatation as you
>describe it and how much water the hull displaces at rest.
>

Exactly what I said in my followup to your post. Draft is dependant
on hull design (geometric, not layup), hull weight, and the location
of the center of gravity of the boat in the water.

Peter Neil

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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Hi All,

I just spent some time on the phone with the local Scout dealer and got these
tidbits.

It does not have an engine well (or equivalent) so I still question how wet my
feet are going to get when either a rogue wave or some moron's wake on the
Merrimack River comes crashing thru transom cut out directly into the cockpit
(this is not an unusual situation by any means near the mouth of this River).
It seems all the newer designs, including the Mako's and Grady's (and Bayliners
!), have a double transom/engine well set up so that it would take a really
unusual (and probably dangerous anyway) situation to get water into the
cockpit. So, my question remains: will it really drain fast enough to keep my
feet dry ?

Price new with Yamaha 150, swim platform, t-top, *no trailer* is about $27.9k
They have a used 1997 configured about same as above for $23.9k (with room for
negotiation). How about these prices ? With a trailer and then taking a
discount if I give up the T-top these prices are *really* pushing my budget...

Also, no comments on the Robalo 1820 ? Bare boat asking for that one is
$13.5k-with definite room for negotiation.

Lots of really interesting comments.

Thanks,

Peter.

hkrause

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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Peter Neil wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I just spent some time on the phone with the local Scout dealer and got these
> tidbits.
>
> It does not have an engine well (or equivalent) so I still question how wet my
> feet are going to get when either a rogue wave or some moron's wake on the
> Merrimack River comes crashing thru transom cut out directly into the cockpit
> (this is not an unusual situation by any means near the mouth of this River).
> It seems all the newer designs, including the Mako's and Grady's (and Bayliners
> !), have a double transom/engine well set up so that it would take a really
> unusual (and probably dangerous anyway) situation to get water into the
> cockpit. So, my question remains: will it really drain fast enough to keep my
> feet dry ?
>

Actually, many of the more serious fishing boats have no motor wells at
all, but simply a flat floor to the transom and large scuppers.

The "european" transom is in style, but it is a pain in the ass when you
are trying or have to bring a fish up by the stern. It takes a hell of a
reach to bring in a live one around those "way out there" engines.

I guess the euro transoms look better. Everyone seems to be doing it.
But I see no practical advantage for a fisherman.

--

Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -

I wish Noah had swatted those two flies.

Mark

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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Peter

IMHO, find yourself a used Boston Whaler Outrage. Truly the Rolls Royce of
center consoles. They hold their re-sale value extremely well so if you
find one around 1990, the boat will be worth whatever you paid for it when
you decide to sell. E-mail me for a lead on a hot 22' Outrage for sale in
your neck of the woods. (I am not a vested party to this boat)

Mark
Peter Neil wrote in message ...

Jeff

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

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On Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:19:14 GMT, pn...@mdc.net (Peter Neil) wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>I just spent some time on the phone with the local Scout dealer and got these
>tidbits.
>
>It does not have an engine well (or equivalent) so I still question how wet my
>feet are going to get when either a rogue wave or some moron's wake on the
>Merrimack River comes crashing thru transom cut out directly into the cockpit
>(this is not an unusual situation by any means near the mouth of this River).
>It seems all the newer designs, including the Mako's and Grady's (and Bayliners
>!), have a double transom/engine well set up so that it would take a really
>unusual (and probably dangerous anyway) situation to get water into the
>cockpit. So, my question remains: will it really drain fast enough to keep my
>feet dry ?
>

It certainly is possible for water to come over the transom. If that
is a large concern, I think they offer some sort of "guard" (for lack
of better word) to prevent that. I didn't get it. My boat has two
large scuppers at the transom well. I have full confidence that they
can handle the water that may come in. The boat is designed to be
unsinkable, so that may lessen your concern. Inside the front coverof
their brochure is a picture of an 18' boat with about 15 people in it.
One of the guys in the middle holds the plug. They are standing in
about 3-4" of water. If you are concerned, you may want to contact
Scout directly.

>Price new with Yamaha 150, swim platform, t-top, *no trailer* is about $27.9k
>They have a used 1997 configured about same as above for $23.9k (with room for
>negotiation). How about these prices ? With a trailer and then taking a
>discount if I give up the T-top these prices are *really* pushing my budget...
>

Prices in Raleigh at the various boat shows were lower than that. I
got mine brand new, with options listed earlier (and with dual axle
alum. trailer) tax, tags, etc. almost $3K less than that.

>Also, no comments on the Robalo 1820 ? Bare boat asking for that one is
>$13.5k-with definite room for negotiation.
>

The only comment I have regarding Robalo is that one of their center
consoles (don't remember which) mounted the drink holders on the
console in such a manner that rendered them useless if you wanted to
sit in the seats. Unless you have _really_ short legs. With the
drink holder out, I would have had to leave my knees at the dock.

I don't have any other opinions on the Robalo, except I didn't like it
as much as the Scout. :^}

Peter Neil

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

to

Hi,

No, I do believe that it's unsinkable. It's just wet feet that I'm worried about.
The mouth of the Merrimack River can be a pretty wild place. My old boat (22ft
Chris Craft SeaHawk) had a pretty wet cockpit and I swore that I'd never go thru
that again. It can be pretty exciting to be anchored near the mouth (or even
drifting for that matter) and have a 40ft'er go by and leave a 6ft wake behind that
mostly splashes thru the cut out into your cockpit...

So, I figure if the new 'Euro' style keeps my feet dry and I have to pull up the
occasional Striper and/or Bluefish over the side instead of over the transom then
it's a good tradeoff.

The dealer seems pretty adamant about keeping the price. So, unless there's *lots*
of room on the 1997 it might have to wait. Or, for that kind of money I can get a
Grady or a Mako in the same size with the features I want.

In article <36ed49d3....@news.mindspring.com>, m...@outhouse.com says...

hkrause

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

to

Peter Neil wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> No, I do believe that it's unsinkable. It's just wet feet that I'm worried about.
> The mouth of the Merrimack River can be a pretty wild place. My old boat (22ft
> Chris Craft SeaHawk) had a pretty wet cockpit and I swore that I'd never go thru
> that again. It can be pretty exciting to be anchored near the mouth (or even
> drifting for that matter) and have a 40ft'er go by and leave a 6ft wake behind that
> mostly splashes thru the cut out into your cockpit...
>
> So, I figure if the new 'Euro' style keeps my feet dry and I have to pull up the
> occasional Striper and/or Bluefish over the side instead of over the transom then
> it's a good tradeoff.

Real men grab those strippers by the chest and lip those bluefish.

Jeff

unread,

Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

to

They do have the splash guard that you can get to prevent that
problem. I think some Grady's have open transoms. I don't know if
the new ones do, but I am pretty sure that some of the previous model
years did.

>The dealer seems pretty adamant about keeping the price. So, unless there's *lots*
>of room on the 1997 it might have to wait. Or, for that kind of money I can get a
>Grady or a Mako in the same size with the features I want.
>
>

I could be wrong, but I don't think you will find a 20' Grady or a 20'
Mako brand new for that price. I don't have any Mako dealers nearby,
so I never really looked at them. I do know that they are on the
higher end of the price scale.

I did look at a nice 18' GW cc. The dealer had a show price of 28K,
rigged with a 150 Yammy and a trailer. Sure, it was a nice boat. I
really liked their reversable leaning post. I don't think it was
worth $28K, but that is only my opinion. But, I think you will have
trouble finding a new Grady cheaper than you will find a new Scout,
both similar in size and equipment. What kind of prices have you
found on the Mako's and Grady's?

RTolb43552

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

to

Take a look at the capehorns

Skipper

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

to

Jeff <m...@outhouse.com>

> Scout, Scout, Scout. I can save you lots of time. I spent over a

> year looking at boats, and the Scout 202 SF was the answer. ...

> Mine pops up on plane almost instantly. It slices through chop

> easily. The gunwales do seem lower than some other boats, but you will

> probably find that the Scout rides higher in the water due to the full

> floatation.. ... Unsinkable design.

"Higher" in the water, huh? Because of the floatation? Is this
levitation standard or optional?

Oh yes, my understanding is that the fellow is looking at a fully
equipped Trophy package that offers great value and meets his
requirements for $19,000. While you have an impressive boat, I doubt
your unpackaged offering provides the value, utility, features, and
affordability of the Trophy.

While your enthusiasm at your new boat purchase is understandable, I
have a hard time believing that Scout represents the only viable option
for this buyer. I also know your assertion that internal floatation
causes a boat to ride higher in the water will not stand the test of
further review. Actually, if the floatation weighs anything at all, the
opposite is true. It could also be true that the Trophy is better
designed to avoid swamping in the first place than the Scout.

--
Skipper

hkrause

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

to

Giggle.

Skipper's never even seen a Scout boat. If he had, he never would have
included that last sentence. And we're not talking about swamping, Dr.
DryGulch. We're talking about water coming up over the standard transom,
which happens with many well-designed small fishing boats. It flows
right out. Hell, it flushes out the residue of bait pieces and parts,
fish residue, blood and all of the other soluble flotsam that clutters
the floor when you fish.

Of course, Skipper doesn't fish.

--

Peter Neil

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

to

That gave me a really good chuckle. Just trying to visualize grabbing one of
those chompers by the lips and living with the consequences... :-)

In article <36ED71DC...@erols.com>, hkr...@erols-nospam.com says...

Peter Neil

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

to

Hi,

Local dealer says a standard 20' Mako (new Euro transom design) without T-Top
is around $27k. The 19ft with a different style transom is $2-3k less.

The standard 18ft Grady CC is also in the $25-27k range with trailer, no T-Top.
Looks nice if, just, a little small.

So, if I was going to stretch that far, or slightly further, I'd go with
something I know and something that 95% of the serious fisherman (I'm only a
semi-serious recreational fisherman) around here use.

So, either I jump on the Key West or continue looking for a late model Mako,
Grady or even, now, Scout in my price range.

Thanks,

Peter.

In article <36ed71f2...@news.mindspring.com>, m...@outhouse.com says...

Skipper

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

to

hkrause wrote:

> Jeff wrote:

Now, get yourself a 23' Trophy and a chainsaw. Cut out the entire
transom, edge to edge right down to the top inside layer of fiberglass
on the bilge, or to the top of the stringers.

Do the same thing to a 23' Whaler.

Which boat is floating higher? Which boat is floating?

Now, take the same two boats, but uncut ones. Put four people more than
full capacity in the Whaler and flood the decks with water. How high
does the boat float? Do the same thing with the Bayliner. How high does
the boat float?

In each and every case, the Bayliner will sink like a stone.

Now, under ordinary circumstances, a fully foamed boat can still float
higher on its lines than your Bayliner. Depends on any number of
factors, including avoirdupois and hull form, especially near the bow.
The use of the foam itself may not make a boat float higher, but the use
of it properly in hull design and custruction will allow for a boat that
will. Ergo, many fully foamed boats float higher on their lines than
boats that are not.

What's in your bilge, anyway, Skippy? Rotting interior grade plywood?

hkrause

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Mar 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/15/99

to

Jeff wrote:
>

unread,

Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

In article <V2fH2.24$AY3...@newsfeed.slurp.net>,

Peter Neil <pn...@mdc.net> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Local dealer says a standard 20' Mako (new Euro transom design) without T-Top
>is around $27k. The 19ft with a different style transom is $2-3k less.
>
>The standard 18ft Grady CC is also in the $25-27k range with trailer, no T-Top.
>Looks nice if, just, a little small.

You might also consider the 21' Sea Ray Laguna. It's extremely well-designed
for fishing, with a big above-deck live/bait well and dual insulated fish
boxes, as well as gobs of storage. While the 18' Laguna is little more than
a stylish toy, the 21 and 23 footers are very, very seaworthy fishing boats.
I know a number of people who take them far offshore on a regular basis,
and in general beat the hell out of them year after year. If I were in
the "21 foot market," this would definitely be at the top of the list,
even above Grady and Mako, for design/layout reasons.

Ron M.

ref

unread,

Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

>>> >> ...You tend to find that full level floatation boats ride higher in
>>> >> the water.
>>>
>>> > I buy into what you are posting...
>>

>>Fill your piece of flotsam boat without ANY flotation at all with water.
>>Note how high it floats in the water. Got that?

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whooooooaaaaa.....

A boat "filled with water" is TOTALLY different from one that's
floating. Sigh. Ok, boys, time for Mr. Wizard's Science Hour.

Take a glass mayonnaise jar, empty. Sit it in the water, it'll
float like a cork.

Fill it with water, however, it sinks like a stone.

Line it with styrofoam, empty. Put it in the water, it'll
float like a cork, but a LITTLE deeper, because you've
made it heavier.

Fill it with water. It floats.

Same thing with boats.

Ok, you can go get your cookies and milk now.

Ron M.

JDavis1277

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Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

SeaRay fishing boat...... sounds like an oxymoron. :=)

Butch

Marcus G Bell

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Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

ref (r...@realtime.net) wrote:
> Take a glass mayonnaise jar, empty. Sit it in the water, it'll
> float like a cork. Fill it with water, however, it sinks like a
> stone. Line it with styrofoam, empty. Put it in the water, it'll
> float like a cork, but a LITTLE deeper, because you've made it
> heavier.

The point has been made that the styrofoam "sandwich" method of
construction used in Boston Whaler et al. allows for a lower hull
weight relative to other constructions. It also includes full
floatation, but the floatation by itself does not make the boat
float higher in the water (UNswamped, of course)... it's the
lighter hull that makes it sit higher in the water.

-- -- Marcus. ( be...@mail.med.upenn.edu )

ref

unread,

Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

>Also, no comments on the Robalo 1820 ? Bare boat asking for that one is
>$13.5k-with definite room for negotiation.

I have a 1993 Robalo 1820. Are you talking about new, or used? The
reason I asked is that last year, they started using "Wahoo!"
hulls, and stopped using the old Robalo hulls. New Robalos
are, literally, Wahoo!'s with a new sticker on the side.

Wahoo! is an excellent boat, however, although i've never
inspected one up close.

The pre-Wahoo! Robalo 1820 is one of the best offshore
small boats ever designed. It's fully foamed, and comes
completely rigged for serious blue water fishing. The hull
is capable of handling just about any water one can
throw at it. If I were going to be stuck 50 miles offshore
in a storm, this is the boat I'd want to be in. I'm NOT
saying that just because I own one, either.

Ron M.

hkrause

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Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

It can also be the hull design. The more flat surface supporting the
load, the higher in the water a boat will float. Carolina Skiffs float
very high because their bottoms are big, flat and doorlike.

--

Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -

Silly wabbit...QWKs are for kids!

ref

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Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

In article <19990316100043...@ng-ft1.aol.com>,

JDavis1277 <jdavi...@aol.com> wrote:
>SeaRay fishing boat...... sounds like an oxymoron. :=)
>
>Butch

Heh, yeah, it does. But the Laguna is a totally separate line
from their mom-and-pop ski boats. The larger Lagunas are indeed
dead-serious offshore fishing machines.

Ron M.

unread,

Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

In article <36ED7A68...@dtc.net>, Skipper <ski...@dtc.net> writes:

>Jeff <m...@outhouse.com>

>
>> Mine pops up on plane almost instantly. It slices through chop
>> easily. The gunwales do seem lower than some other boats, but you will
>> probably find that the Scout rides higher in the water due to the full
>> floatation.. ... Unsinkable design.
>
>"Higher" in the water, huh? Because of the floatation? Is this
>levitation standard or optional?
>

I would suppose that on two boats, same hull, same weight, etc., one with
floatation foam and one without, the one without floatation foam will
float higher, as foam is heavier than air. Of course the one without
the foam can sink, but that's another issue. IOW, boats won't float
higher in the water due to an unsinkable design.

On a related note, when I er, 'tested' my runabout's floataion foam
it took over 10 minutes for the water to drain out of the belowdeck
float chambers, in a gardenhose-like stream, no less. I realized that
since I could plane the boat with that chamber full, I could also plane
the boat with that same quantity of beer aboard. I take comfort in that.

-Joel Frahm

hkrause

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Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

And if it were good ol' pissy American beer, such as, say, Miller Lite,
you'd never know it had been sitting in the bilge...

--

Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -

Support Capitol punishment--spank your congressman.

Jeff

unread,

Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:33:06 -0500, "Phoenix"
<jga...@mindspring.comDeleteThis> wrote:

>Jeff,
>Two things have stood out since you made your first post about your Scout.
>Number 1, you love the boat, ((((and surprisingly no one else thinks it
>sucks, ((I thought about starting a thread about Scouts Suck, but since my
>Icom Sucks Thread Sucked I didn't )) ))) and Number 2 You seem to have
>spent a lot of time researching boats.
>
>Is the Scout priced in the mid or High range for similar boats? What was the
>price range for low price to high price for a boat in this class? How many
>other boats did you find in this class that were almost as good as the
>Scout?
>
>--
>--

Thanks for not dragging my new toy into the dirt with a Scout Sucks
thread!

I spent over a year researching and looking at boats. I started out
looking at bowriders, then decided that I like to fish more than I
like to ski. I then looked at walkarounds. Walkarounds are
absolutely great! My only problem is that they tend to be a little
large for just riding around the local lakes. I felt like if I got a
walkaround, I was limiting myself to coastal waters. I realize that
there are some 19 and 21 foot WA on the market, but the cabin size got
pretty small. I finally realized that a center console would suit my
needs well.

As far as pricing, I found about a three to four thousand dollar
difference for equivalent boats at the four dealers that are closest
to me. At the low end (where I bought), the Scout is in the
mid-ranges. At the upper end (I saw a 1999 with a t-top, 150 merc
opti, and electronics for $31K at the last show I went to.), they are,
well, at the upper end. I would say that generally speaking, they
tend to be a little less expensive than a Boston Whaler, Grady White,
Hydrasports and Edgewater. In MY opinion, those are the boats that
compare. I didn't list Mako because the only Mako dealer around is
about three hours away. I'm sure there are other boats that compare,
its just that these listed were the ones that I compared it to.

The upper end of the 20' center console boats seems to be around $30K.
That is where the Gradys and the BW seem to fit. The lower range was
around $18-$19K. There are quite a few boats in this range.

I like the layout of the Key West 2020, the Ranger, and the
Hydrasports Vector (not the Sea Horse). The Key West was going for
about $22K, if I'm not mistaken. The last one I looked at was in
January, so I may be off on that price.

Hope this helps!

hkrause

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Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

Skipper wrote:
>
>
> Oh yes, my boat draws 1'5". That's shallow enough for most needs.
>
> --
> Skipper

1. That might be what your boat draws with the I/O up, but it is more
than 30" with it town. You planning to pole your way onto the flats?

2. 17" is still too deep for many areas, especially where the bonefish
hang.

Sorry, Skip. You bought the wrong boat.

--

Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -

Forget it! No more beaming! I'm walking this time!

Skipper

unread,

Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

hkrause wrote:

> Skipper wrote:

>> Oh yes, my boat draws 1'5". That's shallow enough for most needs.

> 1. That might be what your boat draws with the I/O up, but it is more

> than 30" with it town. You planning to pole your way onto the flats?

The 15 HP Kicker provides all the speed I want in 17" of water.

> 2. 17" is still too deep for many areas, especially where the bonefish
> hang.

Suppose I'll just have to live with that limitation.

> Sorry, Skip. You bought the wrong boat.

Thank you.

--
Skipper

Skipper

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Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

Jeff wrote:

> Thanks for not dragging my new toy into the dirt with a Scout Sucks
> thread!

Can we assume you will follow suit?

--
Skipper

Jeff

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Mar 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/16/99

to

I don't drag other people's boats into the dirt, Skippy. I _do_
however, correct people that equate the seaworthiness of a Trophy to
that of a Regulator. I try very hard to stay out of the Bayliner vs.
the world threads. I only find myself sucked in on occasion when
something absurd is said, and I feel it needs comment.

[ I feel a Skipper Dejanews search coming on....]

So, go ahead and post some of my comments out of context like you are
so famous for doing.

Skipper

unread,

Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

Peter Neil wrote:

> Ok, I got my 'official' quote in the mail today for the 1999 Scout
> 202.

> With Deluxe Leaning Post, T-Top, Swim Platform, 150hp Yamaha:
> List: 31,024
> Sale: 27,920
> Trailer: 2,459
> Total: 30,379

$19,000 for the fully equipped Trophy or $30,000 for a bare Scout? You
say both boats meet your requirements? What type of boating can you do
in the Scout that can not be done in the Trophy? It does seem like an
easy decision to me. There are lots of things you can find to do with
the $11,000 savings.

--
Skipper

Dick Lucas

unread,

Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

Glad to see that someone verifies my good taste, since I have an '88
Laguna 20. In 90 they changed the designation to Laguna 21, though the
hull remained the same. However, their web site no longer lists the
Laguna series, and last summer a SeaRay dealership told me that they had
dropped the line.

Dick Lucas

hkrause

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Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

This one is easy. It's the difference between driving between in a Yugo
and driving in a Ford Expedition. Both are likely to get you to your
destination, but you'll be comfortable and refreshed in the Expedition
and cranky and pissed off in the Yugo. Also, all the Expedition's parts
will still be working and still be attached when you get to your
destination, because they are of much higher quality. You'll be able to
slam doors and access panels shut on the Expedition, because they are
built to take such abuse, whereas, on the Yugo, they'll rip off at their
hinges. Oh, and the Expedition will have a fuel tank large enough to get
you where you going, whereas, in the Yugo, you'll have to stop for
fill-ups, sometimes many miles from shore. Oh, and your Expedition will
be finished like a work of art, with clean molds, glossy, not dull and
ripply, glass work and, of course, it'll have a better bottom, a higher
quality tee-top or leaning post, a modern engine rather than a FORCE
derelict and a quality trailer, too.

Oh...if you try to equip that Bayliner as the Scout is equipped, you'll
find that the price has gone up by thousands of dollars. For fishermen,
the Bayliner packages include the cheapest of cheap stuff. If you want
quality, you either order separately or buy from outside suppliers and
replace what Bayliner includes.

That simple enough for you, SimpleSkippy?

--

Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -

The Few. The Proud. The folks who still read books.

Dick Lucas

unread,

Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

Lee Lindquist wrote:
>
> On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:48:50 -0500, hkrause <hkr...@erols-nospam.com>

> wrote:
>
> >It can also be the hull design. The more flat surface supporting the
> >load, the higher in the water a boat will float. Carolina Skiffs float
>

> Sorry, Archimedes Jr. your statement is completely false.
> Stick to politics, you clearly know little about physics.
>
> - Lee Lindquist
>
> {lastname}@ibm.net One whistle, captain.
If you think about it a bit, you will come to the conclusion that
Archimedes Jr. is right. The total weight of water displaced by the
hull is equal to the weight of the hull. That water weight can be in a
volume which is large and thin, as would be the case with a flat
bottomed boat, or small and deep, as in a keel sailboat.

Dick Lucas

Phoenix

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Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

Skipper,
I know I can use the $11,000. Skip, do you have any favorite lakes in the
Kansas area you can recommend?

--
--
Jim

Don't worry the next message will be better!

Skipper wrote in message <36EFFCB9...@dtc.net>...

Peter Neil

unread,

Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

Hi,

Well, I'm cheating a little in that the comparisons are no longer equal.

The $19,000 Bayliner was the stock boat with an extended engine warranty and a
$750 Ships Store credit that I would have to use to get a raw water washdown,
swim platform and compass (if it even covered that much). No Leaning Post or
T-Top and a smaller motor. All these missing items are included in the $30k
price for the Scout (2yr warranty on the engine). Also, that Bayliner
'special' expired Monday so the new non Show special may in fact be higher.

I need to go visit both boats again within a day or two of each other to
actually compare the features/quality in my own mind. I do know the Scout (and
Key West, Mako, Robalo, etc) have full foam flotation while the Bayliner has
(only ?) foam assist (apparently blocks of foam installed around the
stringers). Should this be critical to my thinking ? Maybe, maybe not - but
it can be a comforting thought to know some part of the boat will always be
there to hang on to when you're floating in the middle of nowhere.

Part of my thinking is that if I'm in for $20k plus for a Bayliner why not go
another step up ? I never spend this much money without lots of agonizing
(just ask my wife - it drives her nuts).

I'm still looking at this Scout, Grady's, Mako's, used Robalo's and Whalers and
the Bayliner. All the while trying not to get involved, directly, in the
Bayliner "sucks/does not" wars...

Anyway, I really appreciate all the dialogue one simple request has generated.
Please don't stop.

Thanks again,

Peter.

In article <36EFFCB9...@dtc.net>, ski...@dtc.net says...

Jeff

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Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

On Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:53:35 GMT, pn...@mdc.net (Peter Neil) wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Well, I'm cheating a little in that the comparisons are no longer equal.
>
>The $19,000 Bayliner was the stock boat with an extended engine warranty and a
>$750 Ships Store credit that I would have to use to get a raw water washdown,
>swim platform and compass (if it even covered that much). No Leaning Post or
>T-Top and a smaller motor. All these missing items are included in the $30k
>price for the Scout (2yr warranty on the engine). Also, that Bayliner
>'special' expired Monday so the new non Show special may in fact be higher.
>

Yes, the Scout (which Skipper said was "bare") does come standard with
raw water washdown and a compass. The t-top and leaning post combined
probably account for $2500 to $3000 in the price you were quoted.
Sounds to me like the "fully equipped" Bayliner may not have been as
loaded as some people here thought.

>I need to go visit both boats again within a day or two of each other to
>actually compare the features/quality in my own mind. I do know the Scout (and
>Key West, Mako, Robalo, etc) have full foam flotation while the Bayliner has
>(only ?) foam assist (apparently blocks of foam installed around the
>stringers). Should this be critical to my thinking ? Maybe, maybe not - but
>it can be a comforting thought to know some part of the boat will always be
>there to hang on to when you're floating in the middle of nowhere.
>

I may be mistaken, but I think all boats under 20' are required to
have flotation. I am not sure if it is required to have level
flotation or just enough flotation to keep it above water. I'm sure
someone here can expound on this issue.

>Part of my thinking is that if I'm in for $20k plus for a Bayliner why not go
>another step up ? I never spend this much money without lots of agonizing
>(just ask my wife - it drives her nuts).
>

It's a lot of money to spend. It took me over a year to bite the
bullet. I finally found the boat that suited my needs and was built
like I wanted. I also found a dealer that was pleasant to work with,
I found specials at the show that I've mentioned, and I was able to
get my bank to finance my boat at 7.49%. The cards fell into place,
so I jumped on the deal.

One thing that you may want to look at is the resale value of Scouts.
If you go to trader online, you can search for various manufacturers
all across the country. Compare the various boats that you are
considering. {Skipper, please refrain from your standard ABOS
response here, I'm not being negative} See for yourself which boats
have higher resale, and which don't.

>I'm still looking at this Scout, Grady's, Mako's, used Robalo's and Whalers and
>the Bayliner. All the while trying not to get involved, directly, in the
>Bayliner "sucks/does not" wars...
>

Go to the dealers and really crawl around the boat. I always like to
open every inspection port and look all around the interior with a
flashlight. It can be very revealing.

For example, many boats that are mass produced only allow access to
your bilge compartment through a 6 or 8" inspection port. I find that
frightening. If your bilge pump has failed, and you begin taking on
water, how in the hell are you supposed to get it out? A less dire
circumstance is how do you replace the bilge pump? The answer is not
easily. You would have to wiggle one arm in the hole and "feel" your
way around. That was a turnoff for me. Some people don't care.
Decide for yourself.

>Anyway, I really appreciate all the dialogue one simple request has generated.
>Please don't stop.
>

This ng can be very helpful if it avoids the bashing. Those threads
are very unproductive.

>Thanks again,
>
>Peter.
>
>
>In article <36EFFCB9...@dtc.net>, ski...@dtc.net says...
>>
>>Peter Neil wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, I got my 'official' quote in the mail today for the 1999 Scout
>>> 202.
>>
>>> With Deluxe Leaning Post, T-Top, Swim Platform, 150hp Yamaha:
>>> List: 31,024
>>> Sale: 27,920
>>> Trailer: 2,459
>>> Total: 30,379
>>
>>$19,000 for the fully equipped Trophy or $30,000 for a bare Scout? You
>>say both boats meet your requirements? What type of boating can you do
>>in the Scout that can not be done in the Trophy? It does seem like an
>>easy decision to me. There are lots of things you can find to do with
>>the $11,000 savings.
>>
>>--
>>Skipper
>

Skipper

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Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

hkrause wrote:

>> $19,000 for the fully equipped Trophy or $30,000 for a bare Scout?
>> You say both boats meet your requirements? What type of boating can
>> you do in the Scout that can not be done in the Trophy? It does seem
>> like an easy decision to me. There are lots of things you can find to
>> do with the $11,000 savings.

> This one is easy. It's the difference between driving between in a
> Yugo and driving in a Ford Expedition. ...

> That simple enough for you, SimpleSkippy?

Not so fast there bub. The ONLY way to tell the difference in ride
between these two boats is to sea trial them in the chop. I suspect the
Trophy will provide the better and drier ride, particularly on a windy
day. Do you know how they compare in regard to deadrise and freeboard?

--
Skipper

Phoenix

unread,

Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

I haven't been in either boat so I really don't know, but what is it about
the Scout that makes you suspect the Trophy will be a drier ride?

--
--
Jim

Give and you might receive. Take and be sure of it.

Skipper wrote in message <36F02147...@dtc.net>...

Jeff

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Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

On Wed, 17 Mar 1999 15:40:23 -0600, Skipper <ski...@dtc.net> wrote:

>hkrause wrote:
>
>>> $19,000 for the fully equipped Trophy or $30,000 for a bare Scout?
>>> You say both boats meet your requirements? What type of boating can
>>> you do in the Scout that can not be done in the Trophy? It does seem
>>> like an easy decision to me. There are lots of things you can find to
>>> do with the $11,000 savings.
>
>> This one is easy. It's the difference between driving between in a
>> Yugo and driving in a Ford Expedition. ...
>
>> That simple enough for you, SimpleSkippy?
>
>Not so fast there bub. The ONLY way to tell the difference in ride
>between these two boats is to sea trial them in the chop. I suspect the
>Trophy will provide the better and drier ride, particularly on a windy
>day. Do you know how they compare in regard to deadrise and freeboard?
>
>--
>Skipper

I do, where deadrise is concerned. Freeboard is dependant on loading
of the boat, so it is not a published stat. Gunwale height is a fixed
dimension on a boat, and it is published by some. I don't think
either Scout or Bayliner publishes that stat, however.

Trophy 1903 CC has 16* of deadrise at the transom
Scout 202 SF has 18* of deadrise at the transom.

I think the Scout wins this one.

Out of curiosity, Skipper, by what basis do you make a statement like
"I the suspect the Trophy will provide the better and drier ride,
particularly on a windy day?" How will a higher freeboard give a
better and drier ride?

hkrause

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Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

You know, there's more to the equation than simple transom deadrise. As
an example, a boat with a really sharp forefoot or bow entry and
moderate deadrise often will ride better in the slop than a boat with a
bulbous bow and more deadrise. Skippy likes to keep things simple
because...well, he's simple.

But I agree. The Scout will outrun the Bilgeliner in the slop.

--

Harry Krause
- - - - - - - - - - - -

Don't play stupid with me, I'm better at it!

ref

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Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

In article <jDUH2.1063$Vl4....@newsfeed.slurp.net>,
Peter Neil <pn...@mdc.net> wrote:

>I'm still looking at this Scout, Grady's, Mako's, used Robalo's and Whalers and
>the Bayliner.

Another thing to consider is the standard features. Mako, for example, comes
basically stripped down to a piece of bare fiberglass. Others come with
just about everything: washdown/livewell pumps, rod holders, gunwale coaming,
VHF, automatic bilge pumps, canvas, you name it.

A lot of it comes down to critical features, as well. The smaller Gradys, for
example, while superbly engineered, often come with TINY fish boxes. I've
seen big $50,000 25-foot jobs with fish boxes barely big enough for a
stringer of crappie. And don't forget, most pelagic fish are LONG, so
a short/square box won't work. And if you fish off the gulf, you'll need
a 2nd fish box for 4 or 5 big bags of ice.

And things like lockable rod storage, instrument protection, above-deck
round/oval live well, and so on. Sometimes it comes down to just one or
two single features that makes the difference.

Ron M.

ref

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Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

In article <36f022f9...@news.mindspring.com>,

Jeff <sti...@outhouse.com> wrote:
>Out of curiosity, Skipper, by what basis do you make a statement like
>"I the suspect the Trophy will provide the better and drier ride,
>particularly on a windy day?" How will a higher freeboard give a
>better and drier ride?

Keep in mind also that "dryness" is relative. Even a 45' Hatteras
will soak its passengers in the right wind/sea conditions, assuming
they're not behind protective windshields. In general, if you're
planning to go out in offshore chop in a smaller boat and don't
want to get wet, forget it and get into dune buggies.

Ron M.

Electr...@webtv.net

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Mar 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/17/99

to

I work for a boat dealership here in Texas. I am a Marine Mechanic and
all though i don't know the boat's as well as i do the motors. I have
never heard of any you mentioned with the exception of the Trophy. I
don't know if any of the dealers there in the North-East carry these
types of boats but, a few you might be interested in are Bay
Hawk---Kenner---Bay Stealth---and Shoalwater. They might not be what you
are looking for but, they are quality center consols at an affordable
price.

Dana Seero

unread,

Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

The mouth of the Merrimack is particularly messy and I'd want a sea trial in the
conditions on which
you intend to use the boat. If you've been in them before, good enough.

We're sea-trialing a Maritime Skiff 20-D in Gloucester this weekend (for a
different intended use),
most of the dealers in the area can make a boat available for you.

It shouldn't be too late for a boat show price, the Maine boatbuilder's show is
this weekend in Portland and there is another show upstate, and one in NH. Most of
those I've talked to will give you the boat show price at least through the end of
this month, and many will give it to you right up to tax season. After April 15,
everyone with a refund goes shopping and the prices respond accordingly.

Peter Neil wrote:

> I'm looking to buy (probably new) a Center Console in the 20ft range also
> somewhere around $20-22k. I will be using it primarily for fishing in and around
> the Merrimack River in NE Massachusetts (Stripers and Blues) and also for near
> shore dving in and around Gloucester/Rockport MA.

hkrause

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Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

Dana Seero wrote:
>
> The mouth of the Merrimack is particularly messy and I'd want a sea trial in the
> conditions on which
> you intend to use the boat. If you've been in them before, good enough.
>
> We're sea-trialing a Maritime Skiff 20-D in Gloucester this weekend (for a
> different intended use),
> most of the dealers in the area can make a boat available for you.

Wait a minute. Weren't you the blue water sailor who wanted to buy a
deep vee center console as a sailboat race committee boat? Or have you
given up on that idea?

Dana Seero

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Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

> Wait a minute. Weren't you the blue water sailor who wanted to buy a
> deep vee center console as a sailboat race committee boat? Or have you
> given up on that idea?

You've misstated just about everything.

What I have given up on the idea of getting any practical or useful information,
without getting a whole lot of hubris, insult, bad humor, and advice which stems
from a personal need to seem knowledgeable and not from any desire to be
helpful to other boaters.

If you want to go off on some tangent about this, please start another thread, so that

Peter can get some practical and useful information about his impending boat purchase.

Playing around with boats is supposed to be fun, after all.

hkrause

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Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

Dana Seero wrote:
>
> > Wait a minute. Weren't you the blue water sailor who wanted to buy a
> > deep vee center console as a sailboat race committee boat? Or have you
> > given up on that idea?
>
> You've misstated just about everything.

A week ago, you were soliciting here for info on deep vee 19-20' center
consoles to serve as "committee boats" for sailboat races on Mass Bay.
Is that not the case?

> What I have given up on the idea of getting any practical or useful information,
> without getting a whole lot of hubris, insult, bad humor, and advice which stems
> from a personal need to seem knowledgeable and not from any desire to be
> helpful to other boaters.

Several people gave you the info you wanted. Unfortunately, it didn't
fit into your preconceived notions of what the answers should be. I even
supplied you with the make and approximately year of a really deep vee
19-20 footer.

Have you given up on finding the boat you said you wanted? Whatever its
other merits, a Maritime Skiff is going to beat you up in the slop.

Skipper

unread,

Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

Jeff wrote:

> Skipper wrote:

>> Not so fast there bub. The ONLY way to tell the difference in ride

>> between these two boats is to sea trial them in the chop. I suspect

>> the Trophy will provide the better and drier ride, particularly on a

>> windy day. Do you know how they compare in regard to deadrise and
>> freeboard?

> I do, where deadrise is concerned. Freeboard is dependant on loading

> of the boat, so it is not a published stat. Gunwale height is a fixed
> dimension on a boat, and it is published by some. I don't think
> either Scout or Bayliner publishes that stat, however.

> Trophy 1903 CC has 16* of deadrise at the transom
> Scout 202 SF has 18* of deadrise at the transom.

> I think the Scout wins this one.

The Trophy 2052 and 2002 both have a deadrise of 19 degrees. They are
priced at $20,995 and $23,895 respectively including trailer. Your
Scout is priced at $30,000. Oh yes, MSRP for the 1903 is $14,895. Both
the 2052 and 2002 are more comfortable and provide drier rides than the
Scout. I think Trophy wins this one.

> Out of curiosity, Skipper, by what basis do you make a statement like
> "I the suspect the Trophy will provide the better and drier ride,
> particularly on a windy day?" How will a higher freeboard give a
> better and drier ride?

Take a look at these two sites:

http://www.scoutboats.com/202sport.html

http://www.baylinerboats.com/boats/trophy/2052.html

If that review does not convince you the Trophy offers the drier ride,
sea trial a 2052 in the chop. It is heavier, offers much better
protection from spray, and has a higher freeboard than any Scout.

BTW, where is the built in bow platform and anchor roller on the Scout?
And what is that standard feature "68 gut livewell" that Scout
highlights on their web page? If that is a sample of their quality
control, it is interesting. I also find it curious that Scout rates
their 19 footer for 8 people.

And oh yes, all three Bayliners return a higher percentage of resale
value than the Scout. Possibly because they are better values up front.
I'll spare you the detailed justification for this better resale value
as you requested.

--
Skipper

Phoenix

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Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

Ok, but what makes you think the Trophy is a drier ride than a Scout? Did
you read that some where, did you actually test both boats or it is because
it cost less?

Did I miss part of your answer, sometimes my ISP loses a message, but I
didn't realize they were losing part of a message.

--
--
Jim

"There is one God, but which one is He?

Skipper wrote in message <36F15F9A...@dtc.net>...

hkrause

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Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

Skipper wrote:
>
>
> The Trophy 2052 and 2002 both have a deadrise of 19 degrees. They are
> priced at $20,995 and $23,895 respectively including trailer. Your
> Scout is priced at $30,000. Oh yes, MSRP for the 1903 is $14,895. Both
> the 2052 and 2002 are more comfortable and provide drier rides than the
> Scout. I think Trophy wins this one.
>

Only someone who doesn't know dick about boats would assume that
deadrise alone determines how boats of the same general length, width
and weight ride. It's NOT as simple as you are, DryGulch.

Other, but not all, parts of the answer are determined by hull form,
sharpness of bow entry, design and position of strakes, where the weight
is, fore to aft.

Hell, you've probably never seen any of these boats. Remember, they are
fishing boats, and, if you live in DryGulch, Kansas, as you do, and you
want a fishing boat, you're more apt to buy a bassboat.

What a dipstick.

Write about what you know for a change, Skipper. Even if it isn't about
boats.

ref

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Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

In article <36F15F9A...@dtc.net>, Skipper <ski...@dtc.net> wrote:
>Take a look at these two sites:
>
>http://www.scoutboats.com/202sport.html
>
>http://www.baylinerboats.com/boats/trophy/2052.html
>
>If that review does not convince you the Trophy offers the drier ride,
>sea trial a 2052 in the chop. It is heavier, offers much better
>protection from spray, and has a higher freeboard than any Scout.

Good grief. Skipper's at it again, pretending to be an "old
salt," and in the process making an ass out of himself.

The Trophy 2052 is a big, heavy, 3400 pound cuddy cabin boat, 23'
long, complete with bunks, head, etc. No mention of a raw water
washdown, though. Hmmm. It's gonna be fun when the inside gets
sprayed with shark blood and it dries in the sun.

The Scout 202 Sportfish is a *open* boat, a 19 foot center
console weighing only 2000 pounds. This is an extreme case
of comparing apples and oranges.

>
>And what is that standard feature "68 gut livewell" that Scout

Er... that's "qut," not "gut." That means "quart." The Scout has
a 68-quart live well. The Trophy has only a 33 quart, which is so
small as to be virtually useless, except for crappie minnows.

>I find it interesting that Scout rates

>their 19 footer for 8 people.

Scout doesn't rate them, the Coast Guard does. These numbers are
determined by a formula considering the length and beam of the
boat, regardless of its *actual* safe capacity.

Didya hear about the Aggie that tried to rob a bank? He walked
up to the teller window, shoved some small bills under the glass
and said, "this is a stickup: give me all your brown paper bags."
It must have been Skipper...

Ron M.

Skipper

unread,

Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

ref wrote:

> The Trophy 2052 is a big, heavy, 3400 pound cuddy cabin boat, 23'
> long, complete with bunks, head, etc. No mention of a raw water
> washdown, though. Hmmm. It's gonna be fun when the inside gets
> sprayed with shark blood and it dries in the sun.
>
> The Scout 202 Sportfish is a *open* boat, a 19 foot center
> console weighing only 2000 pounds. This is an extreme case
> of comparing apples and oranges.

Oh for cry sakes Ron, I'll loan ya the $200 bucks to get that damn raw
water washdown. With the $10,000 bucks you save getting that much
bigger Trophy and the increased chance you'll survive those storms 50
miles at sea, I consider it a good investment.

--
Skipper

Jeff

unread,

Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 14:18:34 -0600, Skipper <ski...@dtc.net> wrote:

>Jeff wrote:
>
>> Skipper wrote:
>
>>> Not so fast there bub. The ONLY way to tell the difference in ride
>>> between these two boats is to sea trial them in the chop. I suspect
>>> the Trophy will provide the better and drier ride, particularly on a
>>> windy day. Do you know how they compare in regard to deadrise and
>>> freeboard?
>
>> I do, where deadrise is concerned. Freeboard is dependant on loading
>> of the boat, so it is not a published stat. Gunwale height is a fixed
>> dimension on a boat, and it is published by some. I don't think
>> either Scout or Bayliner publishes that stat, however.
>
>> Trophy 1903 CC has 16* of deadrise at the transom
>> Scout 202 SF has 18* of deadrise at the transom.
>
>> I think the Scout wins this one.
>

>The Trophy 2052 and 2002 both have a deadrise of 19 degrees. They are
>priced at $20,995 and $23,895 respectively including trailer. Your
>Scout is priced at $30,000. Oh yes, MSRP for the 1903 is $14,895. Both
>the 2052 and 2002 are more comfortable and provide drier rides than the
>Scout. I think Trophy wins this one.
>

Nice try Slippery. The original poster was not discussing either the
2052 or the 2002. He discussed the 1903, and he was quoted a price of
$19000, not $14895. I guess he wanted an engine with his. If you are
directing the "your Scout is $30,000" at me, you are terribly
incorrect. Mine was nowhere near that much.

You are also such an *spin meister* that you are discussing two
walk-arounds now, not center consoles. This thread certainly was
never about walk arounds, just look at the subject line. Or, more
likely, you don't know the difference. It is typical Skipper spin,
only I for one am tired of it.

>> Out of curiosity, Skipper, by what basis do you make a statement like
>> "I the suspect the Trophy will provide the better and drier ride,
>> particularly on a windy day?" How will a higher freeboard give a
>> better and drier ride?
>

>Take a look at these two sites:
>
>http://www.scoutboats.com/202sport.html
>
>http://www.baylinerboats.com/boats/trophy/2052.html
>
>If that review does not convince you the Trophy offers the drier ride,
>sea trial a 2052 in the chop. It is heavier, offers much better
>protection from spray, and has a higher freeboard than any Scout.

That review does not convince me. Those are two manufacturer's sites,
far from a review, Skippy. What did you gain from those sites? How
much does the Bayliner weigh? I don't know that you can tell from
their site, if indeed trailer weights are included with hull weights.

Again, how will a higher freeboard give a better and drier ride? Do
you know what freeboard means? What is the freeboard on the Bayliner
1903? How much does it weigh?

>
>BTW, where is the built in bow platform and anchor roller on the Scout?

>And what is that standard feature "68 gut livewell" that Scout

>highlights on their web page? If that is a sample of their quality

>control, it is interesting. I also find it curious that Scout rates

>their 19 footer for 8 people.
>

It has an enclosed anchor locker. I don't think a 20' boat needs a
bow pulpit, Skipper. Apparently Bayliner doesn't either, since they
lack one on the 1903, ***the original Bayliner boat we were freaking
discussing*** !!!

And yes, I did notice the typo. I guess Scout pays people to build
high quality boats, not to sit behind computers all day and proofread
websites so that landlocked Bayliner owners in Kansas that have too
much time on their hands (such as yourself) don't find typos.

Why do you find it curious that they rate a 19' 10" boat for 8 people?

>And oh yes, all three Bayliners return a higher percentage of resale
>value than the Scout. Possibly because they are better values up front.
>I'll spare you the detailed justification for this better resale value
>as you requested.
>

Show me real data here, not quotes from your ABOS buddy. Here is some
that I have found and know of personally. I also don't know how you
will make this comparison with real numbers, because as it has been
pointed out, it takes a lot of options to make the Trophy 1903 "fully
rigged." You know, Skippy, things that are really not all that
essential for a boat, like a COMPASS for goodness sakes!!!!!

Neither of us has any idea what these people paid for their boats,
what condition the boats are in, what accessories are coming with the
boat (and their condition), what condition the trailers are in, etc.
You know, Skippy, boat trailers don't fair quite as well in the
saltwater as they do in your bathtub...errr....lake. If you boat in a
lake, we still don't know.

Here's some from Boat Trader, with the two I know of listed below.

21' SCOUT CC Fish 1995, never fished, covered since purchased in April
1996, 75 hours, Hi-Tech built, 8-1/2' beam, 175 Ocean Pro, lean post,
tackle center, electronics, all factory options, 1996 trailer,
replacement $33,500, asking $19,995, 1234567890

1994 SCOUT 202 SPORTFISH, '95 175HP Evinrude OceanPro, T-Top, Live
Well, Boat/Motor Under Warr, New Electronics, EXC CONDITION! Low
Hours, $19,400. Call 1234567890 CHARLESTON

I also know of 1996 w/ a bimini, trailer, and 175 Evinrude for $17,900
in Washington, NC as well as a 1997 w/ a 175 Evinrude, t-top and
trailer for $21,900. I am not sure what electronics is included with
those.

Your homework for the evening, Skipper, is to find out the difference
between a walkaround and a center console. Please, don't embarrass
yourself any more making such far off comparisons!!!!

Phoenix

unread,

Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

Skip,
When you want to go boating for a day, what is your favorite lake?

--
--
Jim

"There is one God, but which one is He?

Skipper wrote in message <36F17FCB...@dtc.net>...

Phoenix

unread,

Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

Jeff,
When Harry does that type of tap dancing it is Spin. With Skip I think it
is because he has trouble following a logical thought process, He likes his
boat (and who doesn't like their boat) and Skip wants everyone to know that
he made the best decision. If Skip likes his boat it is the best boat for
him. Period.

But just because it is the right boat for Skip, doesn't mean that everyone
else made the wrong decision to buy something besides a Bayliner. I think
that Harry has beat him once too often, and he is like a dog whose owner
beats him, he just jumps up and down growling at everything.

I am not sure what the laws in FL are, but in GA we would have arrested
Harry for cruel and inhuman treatment.

--
--
Jim

"There is one God, but which one is He?

Jeff wrote in message <36f1792c...@news.mindspring.com>...

hkrause

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Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

Phoenix wrote:
>
> Jeff,
> When Harry does that type of tap dancing it is Spin. With Skip I think it
> is because he has trouble following a logical thought process, He likes his
> boat (and who doesn't like their boat) and Skip wants everyone to know that
> he made the best decision. If Skip likes his boat it is the best boat for
> him. Period.
>
> But just because it is the right boat for Skip, doesn't mean that everyone
> else made the wrong decision to buy something besides a Bayliner. I think
> that Harry has beat him once too often, and he is like a dog whose owner
> beats him, he just jumps up and down growling at everything.
>
> I am not sure what the laws in FL are, but in GA we would have arrested
> Harry for cruel and inhuman treatment.
>
> --
> --
> Jim
>
>

Or forced me to have closed relations with some of those beer-drinking,
bass-catching, albino banjo playing guys.

The most telling thing about Skippy is his refusal to answer most
questions put to him. That is further evidence his knowledge base is
extremely limited. He is afraid of saying *something else* that shows he
is a boating neophyte pretending to be, I suppose, a poseur.

Phoenix

unread,

Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

Harry,
If you talk about my boating companions again, I will be forced to take the
kid gloves off.

--
--
Jim

if you want someone to keep a secret, keep it yourself.

hkrause wrote in message <36F18D19...@erols.com>...

|Phoenix wrote:
|>
|> Jeff,
|> When Harry does that type of tap dancing it is Spin. With Skip I think
it
|> is because he has trouble following a logical thought process, He likes
his
|> boat (and who doesn't like their boat) and Skip wants everyone to know
that
|> he made the best decision. If Skip likes his boat it is the best boat
for
|> him. Period.
|>
|> But just because it is the right boat for Skip, doesn't mean that
everyone
|> else made the wrong decision to buy something besides a Bayliner. I
think
|> that Harry has beat him once too often, and he is like a dog whose owner
|> beats him, he just jumps up and down growling at everything.
|>
|> I am not sure what the laws in FL are, but in GA we would have arrested
|> Harry for cruel and inhuman treatment.
|>
|> --
|> --
|> Jim
|>
|>

Phoenix

unread,

Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

Jaime,
I liked your well thought out logical thought process.

--
--
Jim

Love is the answer, but while you are waiting for the answer sex raises

Ja'me <*@*.*nospam*> wrote in message
<*-18039915...@sdn-ar-020casfrap091.dialsprint.net>...

|In article <7crssj$g...@vern.bga.com>, r...@realtime.net (ref) wrote:
|
|> In article <36F15F9A...@dtc.net>, Skipper <ski...@dtc.net> wrote:

|> The Trophy 2052 is a big, heavy, 3400 pound cuddy cabin boat, 23'
|> long, complete with bunks, head, etc.
|>

|> The Scout 202 Sportfish is a *open* boat, a 19 foot center
|> console weighing only 2000 pounds. This is an extreme case
|> of comparing apples and oranges.
|

|If I were Skipper...I'm not...NO comments please :-)
|
|I'd have framed the response in a different manner...which *$30,000* boat
|would give the better and drier ride...a Trophy or a Scout...
|
|The point being...one can buy a much larger Trophy than a Scout for the
|same money. Regardless of the quality and features differences...and
|disregarding which may be the better fishing boat...the enclosed helm
|position and just generally much bigger and heavier hull of the Trophy
|would tend to favor it *in drier and "better" ride* comparisons. I don't
|see how an unbiased observer could not consider that.
|
|That's not to say I personally would prefer the Trophy to the Scout for
|the same money. In fact...given a choice of a smaller but higher quality
|product vs. a larger but lower quality product...for the same money...I
|generally go with the smaller/higher quality choice.
|
|But...if...drier and better ride are the *only* criteria for the
|boats...I'd guess the larger Trophy *for the same money* is going to win
|that comparison.
|
|--
|Ja'me
|

ref

unread,

Mar 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/18/99

to

>Oh for cry sakes Ron, I'll loan ya the $200 bucks to get that damn raw
>water washdown. With the $10,000 bucks you save getting that much
>bigger Trophy and the increased chance you'll survive those storms 50
>miles at sea, I consider it a good investment.

>Skipper

Skipper, I say this absolutely without hesitation: if I were
in a storm 50 miles out to sea, I'd rather be my 18' Robalo than
in that 23' Trophy.

Ron M.

Phoenix

unread,

Mar 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/19/99

to

Skip,
Do you ever use any of that $11,000 savings for boating and or fishing?
--
Jim

Skipper <ski...@dtc.net> wrote in message news:36EFFCB9...@dtc.net...

| $19,000 for the fully equipped Trophy or $30,000 for a bare Scout? You
| say both boats meet your requirements? What type of boating can you do
| in the Scout that can not be done in the Trophy? It does seem like an
| easy decision to me. There are lots of things you can find to do with
| the $11,000 savings.
|

| --
| Skipper

Skipper

unread,

Mar 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/19/99

to

Skipper wrote:

>> The Trophy 2052 and 2002 both have a deadrise of 19 degrees. They
>> are priced at $20,995 and $23,895 respectively including trailer.

>> Your Scout is priced at $30,000. Both the 2052 and 2002 are more

>> comfortable and provide drier rides than the Scout. I think Trophy
>> wins this one.

>> Take a look at these two sites:

>> http://www.scoutboats.com/202sport.html

>> http://www.baylinerboats.com/boats/trophy/2052.html

>> If that review does not convince you the Trophy offers the drier
>> ride, sea trial a 2052 in the chop. It is heavier, offers much
>> better protection from spray, and has a higher freeboard than any
>> Scout.

>> And oh yes, all three Bayliners return a higher percentage of resale

>> value than the Scout. Possibly because they are better values up
>> front. I'll spare you the detailed justification for this better
>> resale value as you requested.

A couple more points to illustrate why the $20,995 21' 2052 Trophy may
represent a better value than the $30,000 19' Scout.

1- The 2052 has an enclosed cabin and head. Should your significant
other wish to join you in your search for boating adventure twenty
something miles offshore, the advantage these items provide should be
obvious.

2- The 2052 with bimini top and side curtains offer a completely dry
ride on those really nasty days, unlike the soaking you'll get in that
open 19' Scout. The much higher freeboard of the 2052 also contributes
towards keeping you dry when you back down in the chop on Mr. Big.

3- The fine entry, increased weight, well designed hull form, and deeper
deadrise of the 2052 will provide a softer ride than the 202 on those
kinda nasty days.

4- The pricing guides that boat dealers and lenders occasionally
reference show that the 2052 should retain a higher percentage of its
original cost at resale than the 202.

5- The 2052 has an integrated bow platform, roller, and rope locker.
The 202 does not.

6- The 2052 Trophy has a 10-year structural hull limited warranty,
transferable. The fiberglass is hand-laid. The boat has foam flotation
and Marine Core® construction. It has the Sequential Lift Hull® design.
The boat meets or exceeds all applicable U.S. Coast Guard safety
standards, and is NMMA certified.

I'm not bashing 202's. Actually, I think they're fine boats. Just
pointing out to a couple folks that the extremely popular 2052 Trophy
may represent the better choice for some. Besides, I don't think the NG
should be in the business of ridiculing the other guy's boat buying
decisions.

--
Skipper

Phoenix

unread,

Mar 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/19/99

to

mmmmmmmmmmmm well said, but someone who was posing under your nick was busy
bashing the Scout earlier in the week.

--
--
Jim

I am correct, the rest of you are wrong!

Skipper <Ski...@dtc.net> wrote in message news:36F2C25B...@dtc.net...

J. Clark

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Mar 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/19/99

to

Excellent post Skipper except, I can't figure out why you are making
value, feature and performance comparisons of two specific boats
that have absolutely nothing in common except they both float. If
you want to illustrate the "value" of your boat, why not compare it
to something of similar size and style?
Jim Clark
Custom Yacht Services
Marshfield, Massachusetts
http://home.att.net/~custom-yacht-services
Skipper wrote in message <36F2C25B...@dtc.net>...

Jeff

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Mar 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/19/99

to

On 19 Mar 1999 22:58:14 GMT, "J. Clark"
<custom-yac...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Excellent post Skipper except, I can't figure out why you are making
>value, feature and performance comparisons of two specific boats
>that have absolutely nothing in common except they both float. If
>you want to illustrate the "value" of your boat, why not compare it
>to something of similar size and style?
>Jim Clark
>Custom Yacht Services
>Marshfield, Massachusetts

Because they were the smallest boats offered by that manufacturer that
backed up his argument. It's a Skippyism. Never mind the fact that
the thread was NEVER about walkarounds. Until he brought them up.