Albolene revisited
Tom G
say it). It was cheap, seemed to work well, and kept me from sending any
money to He Who Must Not Be Named.
As a joke, I offered a lifetime supply of Albolene as a raffle prize at the
Penns Clave in May. I did not realize at the time exactly how much joke
potential Albolene had...
Zimbo said something about doing a Google search for "Albolene". I took his
advice. Wow. I'd recommend that experiment to anyone who's ever used the
stuff. It's got more uses than WD-40. Check it out:
http://www.google.com/search?q=albolene
BTW, Zimbo, how's about a legal update?
Among other uses (!), one use was as a hand cleaner for mechanics. I do a
fair amount of work on my own vehicles, so I tried it. It works great!
That stuff dissolves grease like you can't believe.
It still floats flies as well as ever.
I've learned that an old eye drop bottle (Clear Eyes, Visine, etc.) works
very well as a dispenser for Albolene.
If you haven't tried Albolene as floatant, you probably should.
Tom G
Kevin Vang
>
> If you haven't tried Albolene as floatant, you probably should.
>
You know, I was kind of wondering about something. It seems to me,
if I remember correctly, that the group consensus is something like
this:
1. Gink is a terrible fly floatant.
2. Gink is the same thing as Albolene.
3. Albolene is a great fly floatant.
Being a pedantic mathematician by trade, the logic of this argument
escapes me.
Kevin
rb608
Kevin Vang <va...@misu.nodak.edu> wrote in message
news:3B5D8B97...@misu.nodak.edu...
> You know, I was kind of wondering about something. It seems to me,
> if I remember correctly, that the group consensus is something like
> this:
>
> 1. Gink is a terrible fly floatant.
>
> 2. Gink is the same thing as Albolene.
>
> 3. Albolene is a great fly floatant.
>
> Being a pedantic mathematician by trade, the logic of this argument
> escapes me.
You're not quite correct about #1. The complaints about Gink were with
it's manufacturer, not its performance. The consensus was more along the
lines of:
1. A particular commercial fly floatant comes in little bottles and costs
more than it should.
2. The manufacturer of that product is someone with whom I'd rather not do
business.
3. Albolene is the same thing and works just as well and comes in tubs
that will last you a lifetime for the same price as those little bottles.
Actually, point #2 is optional if you haven't been here long.
Joe F.
Peter Collin
Peter Collin
Tom G
> Tom G wrote:
> >
> > If you haven't tried Albolene as floatant, you probably should.
> >
> You know, I was kind of wondering about something. It seems to me,
> if I remember correctly, that the group consensus is something like
> this:
>
> 1. Gink is a terrible fly floatant.
I've never used it, but I expect that it is a satisfactory fly floatant.
It's the man behind the product that's the issue for me. See Joe F.'s reply
to your post.
> 2. Gink is the same thing as Albolene.
Definitely not. I believe that many folks used to joke that Gink was just
Albolene in a cute package for 10X the price. This was simply a way to
ruffle GG's feathers.
> 3. Albolene is a great fly floatant.
It floats my flies every time.
> Being a pedantic mathematician by trade, the logic of this argument
> escapes me.
Your perception of the argument was inaccurate. A better argument might be:
1. George Gherke is a boor.
2. Gink is a GG product.
3. Albolene is a good substitute for Gink
Tom G
glad I could help
Kevin Vang
>
> Your perception of the argument was inaccurate.
No, I do recall a lot of folks bad-mouthing Gink as a product,
not just the producer of the product. I don't know if any one
person actually put all three of my statements into one post
like I did, but I do know that there were large subsets of people
holding each of the three opinions that I stated.
Kevin
Tom G
replying to. I remember typing it, but your reply shows up and my post does
not. Strange.
IIRC, you may be right. I remember several folks claiming that a Gink-ed
fly would not float after catching one fish. I haven't had this problem too
badly with Albolene, but fish slime has got to be one of the best
surfactants on the planet. I believe that a decent enough coating of fish
slime could probably sink a cork.
Regardless, Gink Stinks!
Tom G
"Kevin Vang" <va...@misu.nodak.edu> wrote in message
news:3B5D9C09...@misu.nodak.edu...
JR
So, you're complaining about the logic of a syllogism formed by taking
different opinions held by perhaps three different groups of people and
arranging them yourself into premises and conclusion. They weren't
necessarily linked by "group consensus".
Anyway, I don't recall folks complaining that Gink didn't float flies, just
that it was little more than over-priced abalone, really only insisted upon
at length to irk HWMNBN. After all, you can say pretty much the same thing
about all other commercial floatants: the component that makes the fly
float is real cheap in itself. The other complaint I recall is that Gink
contained scent.
JR
Mike Connor
I believe most complaints were about Xink. Gink works alright as a floatant.
No better than a lot of others, and worse than some.
TL
MC
rdean3...@flash.net
And I'd offer that 3 isn't quite the case, either, but rather, that
Albolene _does_ (essentially) the same thing - I don't think Gink and
Albolene are identical. Moreover, as you say, it does so at a cheaper
price and without doing business with anyone many consider to be
undeserving of that business. Plus, as also pointed out, Albolene has
other uses (Gink may as well, but see 1 and 2).
TC,
R
Dave LaCourse
>You know, I was kind of wondering about something. It seems to me,
>if I remember correctly, that the group consensus is something like
>this:
>
>1. Gink is a terrible fly floatant.
>
Actually, it is a fairly good floatant, but Albolene is a helluva cheaper.
Dave
George
Noticed no post yet about where to get Albolene. I would like to know
as well.
George Spear
Otisfield, ME (Between Pleasant and Thompson Lake)
aa...@com.yahoo (reverse com and yahoo)
><(((*>
Dave LaCourse
albeit with an oil slick on the surface of the water. It was the producer of
these products that most folks disagreed with. If he made bead heads, they
would have been wonderful things for nymphs. If he made strike indicators,
they too would be wonderful devices for nymphing as would non-toxic split shot.
However, because he did not make these products, they were foul, not to be
used by flyfishermen of conscience. The only things that were good were the
ones that *he* produced, and they were the "best". Albolene is Gink without
the stink and price. Non-toxic split shot works better than Xink and doesn't
contaminate the waters.
He got so bad with his Gink testimonials that he tried to convince all on these
pages that gink was the only way to float CDC. If you've ever fished with CDC,
you know that *any* floatant is detrimental to these feathers and shouldn't be
used.
Dave
rb608
George <aa...@com.yahoo> wrote in message
news:3b5dd5bf....@news.megalink.net...
>
> Noticed no post yet about where to get Albolene. I would like to know
> as well.
Drug stores. Look around the cold creams & lotions.
Joe F.
PaulShook
as well. >>
Walgreens
Kevin Vang
> So, you're complaining about the logic of a syllogism formed by taking
> different opinions held by perhaps three different groups of people and
> arranging them yourself into premises and conclusion. They weren't
> necessarily linked by "group consensus".
Absolutely! I want to have the correct herd mentality, but
there's herds running all over the damn place. Some of them
seem to be on collision courses.
Kevin,
my brain hurts when I try to think for myself.
JR
>
> Absolutely! I want to have the correct herd mentality, but
> there's herds running all over the damn place. Some of them
> seem to be on collision courses.
>
> Kevin,
> my brain hurts when I try to think for myself.
LOL. I have a picture in mind of a philosopher standing bent over in the
high plains looking at the ground, with three charging bison converging on
a point occupied by his skull. Maybe Dave S. could paint it. Call it
"Dakota Dialectic."
JR
Natty Bumppo
> Absolutely! I want to have the correct herd mentality, but
> there's herds running all over the damn place. Some of them
> seem to be on collision courses.
>
> Kevin,
> my brain hurts when I try to think for myself.
Join my herd mentality....fish the fly until it gets soaked or slimmed, then
change the fly or grab a seat on the bank and have a beer and a smoke.
Natty
Michael McGuire
>
> At first, Albolene was just a nifty alternative to Gink (sorry, but I had to
> very well as a dispenser for Albolene.
>
>
> Tom G
How about the carefully emptied and cleaned last bottle of G**k that you
bought.
Mike
--
Michael McGuire Hewlett Packard Laboratories
email:mmcg...@exch.hpl.hp.com P.0. Box 10490 (1501 Page Mill Rd.)
Phone: (650)-857-5491 Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971
************BE SURE TO DOUBLE CLUTCH WHEN YOU PARADIGM SHIFT.**********
Warren Findley
"Kevin Vang" <va...@misu.nodak.edu> wrote
> Absolutely! I want to have the correct herd mentality, but
> there's herds running all over the damn place. Some of them
> seem to be on collision courses.
What I find funny is that he is no longer around and can still
generate this many respones <g>
daytripper
Eh, bfd. This place has been so peaceful and reasonably purposeful since ykw
was sent packing (thanks to whomever pulled his friggin' plug, btw), what's
wrong with a couple dozen posts revelling in that reality?
/daytripper ()
Warren Findley
"daytripper" <day_t...@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote
> Eh, bfd. This place has been so peaceful and reasonably purposeful
since ykw
> was sent packing (thanks to whomever pulled his friggin' plug, btw),
what's
> wrong with a couple dozen posts revelling in that reality?
Do you honestly think he doesn't check things out now and then? If
so, please let me clarify something: he does. If you are enjoying the
"peace" as much as I am, then let sleeping dogs lie. If you want it
to start up again, by all means keeping baiting those hooks and
trolling. Another thing, nobody pulled the plug on him, he left of
his own accord. That is not me defending him, but the truth. He has
kept his word on not returning so far and I really am not looking
forward to going back to the old crap, which is a possibility because
we know how get gets when he has to defend himself.
--
Warren Findley
(Remove the SPAM_ME_NOT to reply via email)
For Yellowstone Clave info:
http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/index.html
William Loehman/Susan Schwarz
daytripper wrote:
>What I find funny is that he is no longer around and can still
> >generate this many respones <g>
>
> Eh, bfd. This place has been so peaceful and reasonably purposeful since ykw
> was sent packing (thanks to whomever pulled his friggin' plug, btw), what's
> wrong with a couple dozen posts revelling in that reality?
I miss his presence here. Whether you liked him or not, he did help
keep things lively!!
Willi
gol...@frii.com
Joel Axelrad
flys and turns them almost black.
My Royal Wolffs look like black wolffs after I Gink them. So does Albolene.
What's a better product?
Joel Axelrad
**DFD**
Mike Connor
"Joel Axelrad" <jaxf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010725002813...@ng-fy1.aol.com...
Try watershed, and pretreat your flies with it. Instructions come with the
bottle.
Silicone mucilin, dissolved in pure cigarette lighter fuel, or carbon
tetrachloride, works for treating flies onstream. Put the fly in the bottle
containig the solution, shake dry, and wait a minute or two for the solvent
to evaporate. You can also use pure beeswax, or paraffin wax ( white
candles).
Both solvents are dangerous. Be careful with them.
Most furniture polishes containing wax will work perfectly as fly-floatants.
Just spray on the fly, and allow to dry, or false cast a little.
In a pinch, even WD-40 works.
TL
MC
Clark Reid
usually just squeeze a tiny amount onto my fingers and rub together until
you have a fine liquid on your fingers. Then I just dab it on the tail and
hackles.. works a treat.
Clark
jaxf...@aol.com (Joel Axelrad) wrote in
news:20010725002813...@ng-fy1.aol.com:
David Snedeker
JR wrote in message <3B5DE539...@attglobal.net>...
>LOL. I have a picture in mind of a philosopher standing bent over in the
>high plains looking at the ground, with three charging bison converging on
>a point occupied by his skull. Maybe Dave S. could paint it. Call it
>"Dakota Dialectic."
>
>JR
I can't paint Bison: the humps are just too sensual.
Actually, a favorite film clip is the Buffalo hunt from "Dances with
Wolves." I love the visuals of the hunters using the short bows - - - which
were made by Nez Perce artisans in quantify for trade. The real bows were
made of horn, backed by sinew and had a double curve. The bows were said to
have a killing range of more than 80 yards. These were the preferred bison
bows from the Laramie Plain, to the lower Missouri.
The hair goes up on my neck in the scene when the hunting column comes upon
the hundred yard or so churned up "road" of the herd. Ive had dreams of a
bison hunt.
As I understand it, the most authentic paintings of Indian bison hunting are
those done by Alfred Jacob Miller, an artist who accompanied a Scottish
sportsman named William Drummond Stewart. Stewart went out with the Rocky
Mountain Fur Company in the seasons of 1833 thru1838. Stewart became
addicted to the hunt and life with the French Metis and LeniLanape trappers,
although some feel he may also have been something of a British spy.
Miller's watercolors and sketches were rediscovered in the '70s and his
paintings were found in Stewart's Scottish castle.
Dave
Dave LaCourse
Don't use *any* floatant. A Royal Wulff (or any Wulff for that matter) floats
very well right out of the box. If it gets slimed after you catch a fish, wash
it thoroughly to remove the fish slime, and put it in drying crystalsl.
Although I have a tub of floatant on my vest, I find myself using it less and
less because of the use of drying crystals.
Another similar solution is to bloat your fly dry on amadou.
Dave
Frank Church
Mike Connor wrote in message <9jlihn$sgj$02$1...@news.t-online.com>...
>
>Try watershed, and pretreat your flies with it. Instructions come with the
>bottle.
>
>Silicone mucilin, dissolved in pure cigarette lighter fuel, or carbon
>tetrachloride, works for treating flies onstream. Put the fly in the bottle
>containig the solution, shake dry, and wait a minute or two for the solvent
>to evaporate. You can also use pure beeswax, or paraffin wax ( white
>candles).
>
>Both solvents are dangerous. Be careful with them.
>
>Most furniture polishes containing wax will work perfectly as
fly-floatants.
>Just spray on the fly, and allow to dry, or false cast a little.
>
>In a pinch, even WD-40 works.
>
>TL
>MC
Reminds me that some time back (and maybe even now) there was this thing of
chuck-and-winders (read spinning or casting reel users) using WD-40 on their
bass plugs and swearing this got them more hits. To my knowledge, no one
has ever figured out why this stuff works as an "attractant."
I hope I'm remembering this correctly, but listening to the radio one time,
the host of the program was interviewing a scientist who was involved with
coming up with WD-40. When asked where the name came from, he replied that
it simply was the 40th try at experimenting with a Water Dispersant. No
charge for the above gem of information. :-)
Frank Church
(who can't live without at least one can of WD-40 in the garage)
Dave LaCourse
D.
rb608
Frank Church <bass...@yehaw.com> wrote in message
news:9jm7rk$145p$1...@ID-28047.news.dfncis.de...
> (who can't live without at least one can of WD-40 in the garage)
Yeah, but if you can find one of them little red straws when you need it,
you're a better man than I am. :-)
Joe F.
daytripper
<troutbum_mt(SPAM_ME_NOT)@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"daytripper" <day_t...@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote
>> Eh, bfd. This place has been so peaceful and reasonably purposeful
>>since ykw was sent packing (thanks to whomever pulled his friggin' plug, btw),
>>what's wrong with a couple dozen posts revelling in that reality?
>
>Do you honestly think he doesn't check things out now and then?
Do you honestly think anyone here gives a shit what he does?
/daytripper
vittorio
let me correct your statement about CDC:
you can use some floatants on CDC, just not paste or liquid or spray.
The greatest floatant for CDC I have used is something called "frog's
fanny",
which is a very very fine dessiccant powder (non-toxic and
non-polluting, they claim
on the package) which you can brush on soaked CDC. It will remove all
the water much
better than any alternative method I have used (false casting, kleenex,
the free blue
towels you get at the gas station, the very expensive Amadou). Then you
just blow the powder away and the fly is as good as new.
On a different note:
People mentioned that there are better floatants than Gink ...
such as ? Most alternatives I have tried do not work nearly as well,
they tend in general to be much more viscous (the paste ones), or to
wear off much faster (the liquid / spray ones). Some floatants I have
tried
are reasonable alternatives to Gink, but not better... Any opinions ?
-Vittorio
rdean3...@flash.net
<vittorio...@stanfordalumni.org> wrote:
>Dave,
>On a different note:
>People mentioned that there are better floatants than Gink ...
>such as ? Most alternatives I have tried do not work nearly as well,
>they tend in general to be much more viscous (the paste ones), or to
>wear off much faster (the liquid / spray ones). Some floatants I have
>tried
>are reasonable alternatives to Gink, but not better... Any opinions ?
Yep. If they are (just) reasonable alternatives, fine, end of story,
IMO. Why do they have to be "better?" And whose to say what's
"better?" But, really, I've no problem with Gink-users, Gink-fans,
or even Gink-drinkers, just Gink-bottlers....
TC,
R
Certified 100% Gink-Free
Dave LaCourse
>Dave,
>
>let me correct your statement about CDC:
>you can use some floatants on CDC, just not paste or liquid or spray.
>The greatest floatant for CDC I have used is something called "frog's
>fanny",
>which is a very very fine dessiccant powder (non-toxic and
>non-polluting, they claim
>on the package) which you can brush on soaked CDC. It will remove all
>the water much
>better than any alternative method I have used (false casting, kleenex,
>the free blue
>towels you get at the gas station, the very expensive Amadou). Then you
>just blow the powder away and the fly is as good as new.
Read my post about using drying crystals, Vittorio. Drying crystals are *not*
a floatant. If you use a floatant on CDC, you destroy the natural miniature
barbels of the feather. Sure, the cdc will float using a floatant, but it will
no longer have the properties of a CDC feather. Why tie with cdc if you are
going to use a floatant. Again, drying crystals are *not* a floatant.
>
>On a different note:
>People mentioned that there are better floatants than Gink ...
>such as ? Most alternatives I have tried do not work nearly as well,
>they tend in general to be much more viscous (the paste ones), or to
>wear off much faster (the liquid / spray ones). Some floatants I have
>tried
>are reasonable alternatives to Gink, but not better... Any opinions ?
I prefer Aquel to Gink, especially on a cold morning.
Dave
William Loehman/Susan Schwarz
daytripper wrote:
>
> >Do you honestly think he doesn't check things out now and then?
>
> Do you honestly think anyone here gives a shit what he does?
>
> /daytripper
Obviously you do or you wouldn't be posting about him.
Willi
gol...@frii.com
Frank Reid
> (who can't live without at least one can of WD-40 in the garage)
Try it at dinner time, its great in Hungarian Barley Stew!
Frank Jr.
Scott Seidman
news:8ffaeeda.01072...@posting.google.com:
I thought that went down a little too easy
Scott
Michael McGuire
One quick way to clean a slimed fly is to cast it hard against the water
three or four times. It seems to strip the slime right off. With a
couple of false casts to dry it, you're back in business with floating
dry fly.
rdean3...@flash.net
>On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 13:39:05 -0400 it appears that Tom G wrote:
>
>: I believe that a decent enough coating of fish
>: slime could probably sink a cork.
>Ok, from the web we have a specific gravity of cork as ~0.25,
<REAL bad stuff snipped, beaten, and buried....>
>Now all we need is rw to run some experiments...
And someone to throttle the living shit out of you...<G>
TC,
R
>
>JonCook.
Dave LaCourse
>One quick way to clean a slimed fly is to cast it hard against the water
>three or four times. It seems to strip the slime right off. With a
>couple of false casts to dry it, you're back in business with floating
>dry fly.
>
LOL. Ever fished the San Juan, Mike? You can tell the newbies from the
experienced by the way they remove the aquatic slime from their leader/hook. A
newbie will stop casting and remove it by hand. An experienced fisherman will
slap it on the water three or four times during false casts to get rid of the
slime.
Dave
daytripper
/daytripper
Guyz-N-Flyz
are in better condition the next trip out, than when I used Gunk.
Op
"Dave LaCourse" <dav...@aol.comPirate> wrote in message
news:20010725110618...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
Guyz-N-Flyz
I also have a friend that chums the water with a can or two of cat or dog
food hangin' over the side of his boat. He ties a string to the can and
pokes numerous holes in it, drops it close to the bottom and drops a chicken
liver close by on the hook.
Op
"Frank Church" <bass...@yehaw.com> wrote in message
news:9jm7rk$145p$1...@ID-28047.news.dfncis.de...
>
William Loehman/Susan Schwarz
daytripper wrote:
>
> I refuse to believe you really are that simple minded, William...
Who knows from simple mindedness but your statement was:
"Do you honestly think anyone here gives a shit what he does?"
I think you'd care a WHOLE lot if he came back!!
Willi
gol...@frii.com
Joel Axelrad
Joel Axelrad
**DFD**
BJC
Americans building or using a bow like that ( before europeans that is)
BJ Conner of the Western Delaware (Lanape)
David Snedeker wrote in message ...
>
The real bows were
>made of horn, backed by sinew and had a double curve.
> LeniLanape tr
>
>Dave
David Snedeker
BJC wrote in message <1sM77.5045$vT.4...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net>...
>Betcha a six pack of Gink that you can't find an authicated case of Native
>Americans building or using a bow like that ( before europeans that is)
>BJ Conner of the Western Delaware (Lanape)
BJ . . .
I don't know what your exact point is . . . but if you are doubting that the
Nez Perce made and traded powerful RECURVE, horn and composite material
bows, you have a lot of arguing to do. I don't know where you come up with
this BS, although the last time I heard it was from some wacko from back
East who had moved to Idaho to be closer to his Aryan brothers and their
Eurocentric conceits.
But knowing you will not welch on the case of Gink you now owe me . . .
>
These bows and variants of horn, syringa and yew, backed with sinew were
were not only madeand traded by the Nez Perce, but many other Northwest
tribes including the Kalispel, the Chinook, some shoshonies, etc..
Here is a site by the Wind River, Wyoming historical association showing a
Tom Lucus replica bow pix.
http://www.windriverhistory.org/wrhcstore.html
This bow was patterned after a painting done by Karl Bodmer, an artist
working for the German naturalist Maximilian, in the early 1830's. It
depicts Pehriska-Ruhpa, a Minnetaree warchief. Bodmer is known for his
exact, scientific accuracy, and the painting clearly shows a Northwest
style, recurve bow, 1000 miles from the Nez Perce homeland!!!
Here is a description David Dominick, of the construction of horn bows by an
elusive group of Shoshoni known as the "Sheepeaters" who lived in the
Yellowstone backcountry.
"One other specialty practiced by the Sheepeaters, recognized by all
other Shoshoni, was
the manufacture of very powerful bows from the horn of a mountain sheep.
Osborne Russell
reported, "The bows were beautifully wrought from Sheep, Buffaloe and Elk
horns secured with
Deer and Elk sinews and ornamented with porcupine quills and generally about
3 feet long."103
"These bows were made from the thick ridge on the upper side of the ram's
horn. The horn
was heated over the coals to soften it and then the naturally curling horn
was straightened.
Unwanted portions of the horn were whittled away, and the remaining solid
piece was 18 to 24
inches long and one inch thick at the butt. Heat was again applied, making
the horn semi-
plastic, and it was smoothed and shaped by pounding with a round stone. The
end result was
a very smooth and evenly tapered piece which was oval-shaped in cross
section. A duplicate of
this was made from the ram's other horn, and the two pieces were beveled at
their butt ends
and fitted together. A separate piece of horn about five inches long and as
wide as the butt
ends was placed at their junction. Wet rawhide was then wrapped around the
three pieces.
When it dried, this made a very firm joint. Sinew strips which came from the
neck and back of
large animals were glued to the back of the bow to give it added strength.
The glue was made
by placing shavings from the hoof and small bits of thick neck-skin or
back-skin in boiling
water, and then as a thick scum formed, it was skimmed off.
" It took two months for a skilled specialist to turn out such a bow, and
other Shoshoni
people and even people of other tribes traded eagerly for them. "A well-made
sheep-horn bow
would sell for from five to ten good ponies."104 These bows were so well
known among all
Shoshoni peoples that present-day Shoshoni still speak of them. F.R., a
Shoshoni living at Fort
Hall, claims that such a bow could have put an arrow completely through a
buffalo. J.T., of
Wind River, tells of knowing a very old man who came to the Reservation and
brought with him
a sleep-horn bow. But the man has died and the bow cannot be found. J.T.
thinks the bow may
be buried with him.
Here are some other sources.
Encyclopedia of Native American Bows, Arrows, and Quiversby S. Allely and
Jim Hamm, Vol 1 (Northeastern. Southeastern, and Mid-west). $29.95.
Native American Bows by T. M. Hamilton. Authentic account with good
illustrations and some rare art reproductions in b&w. Auspices of the
Missouri Archeological Society. $14.95.
North American Bows, Arrows, Quivers, and Chipped Arrowheads by Otis Mason.
Reports of Smithsonian reports from 1891-1893 (limited reprint). $39.95.
When can I expect delivery of the Gink?
Dave
Mike Connor
"David Snedeker" <sned...@bainbridge.net> wrote in message
news:tlvhpid...@corp.supernews.com...
<SNIP>
>
> When can I expect delivery of the ****?
> Dave
Keep your eyes peeled for an overheated brown truck.
TL
MC
JR
>
> Here is a site by the Wind River, Wyoming historical association showing a
> Tom Lucus replica bow pix.
> http://www.windriverhistory.org/wrhcstore.html
> Here is a description David Dominick, of the construction of horn bows by an
> elusive group of Shoshoni known as the "Sheepeaters" who lived in the
> Yellowstone backcountry.
The stuff you find on ROFF. Thanks, Dave, for the link. Amazing bow, and
a fascinating description of the construction process. $20,000 for a
reproduction! Heck, it'll be a decade at least until a Winston cane costs
that much. But given the work that Lucas obviously put into it (including
quiver and arrows), who's to say it's not "worth" it?
Thanks also for the reference to Alfred Jacob Miller. I checked out his
work on the Web. You know, though, I thought his representations of coy
(or is that koi?) Indian maidens were way more sensuous than his buffalo
humps, but I guess I'm just funny that way. ;)
JR
daytripper
cy...@tiny.net
wrote:
>
>The stuff you find on ROFF. Thanks, Dave, for the link. Amazing bow, and
>a fascinating description of the construction process. $20,000 for a
>reproduction!
>JR
Ten good ponies = $20,000.00 US sounds about right to me. Maybe it's
even going a bit cheaply.
---
rbc: vixen Fairly harmless
http://www.visi.com/~cyli
BJC
David Snedeker wrote in message ...
>I don't know what your exact point is . .
I loose. I'll Pay.
I,m setting in the roff saloon two Sweet Bettys into the night when I heard
what you said at the next table. I instantly though of the fancy recurves
of the mongols and others east of Suez and though I had an easy bet.
I've never learned to not do that after a few beers.
Well anyway you can have the Gink or The donation of like amount to charity
of your choice ( as noted I prefer Dornbeckers Childrens Hospital but you
call it ) I make it 6x 3.95 = $23.70 or I'll go $30.00 if I like your
pick. All will be verifed with reciepts.
I've seen the laminated bows your talking about, rare then and now. They
looked more like the flat bows that the mongols bows that instantly poped
into mind.
Please don't get me mixed up with some of those idiots from Idaho. Nothing
like that here. just an attempt at a friendlly bet in the roff saloon.
BJ Conner - still suffering ocassionally from the whitemans CBR warfare.
John Russell
>
> David Snedeker wrote in message ...
>
> >I don't know what your exact point is . .
> I loose. I'll Pay.
> Well anyway you can have the Gink or The donation of like amount to charity
> of your choice ( as noted I prefer Dornbeckers Childrens Hospital but you
> call it ) I make it 6x 3.95 = $23.70 or I'll go $30.00 if I like your
Hat's off to you.
David Snedeker
BJC wrote in message ...
>
>David Snedeker wrote in message ...
>
>>I don't know what your exact point is . .
>I loose. I'll Pay.
BJ
Buy me a Pacifico at some future cosmic clave, Ive got a lifetime supply of
abolene anyway. Besides, Im descended from Jerseymen too, so call it square.
If you are from the Western Delewares(Lanape, the people) you probably know
that they left NewJersey early after a severe defeat by the Iroquois. The
Delaware survivors moved West, some joined the Shawnees and Miamis, but it
is not well known that some crossed the Mississippi and became renowned
horse Indians, buffalo hunters and beaver trappers.
These were the Delawares who ventured out onto the plains in the 1830s with
the American and Rocky Mountain Fur companies. Bernard DeVoto, the
historian, says that the Delawares were the only Indians the mountain men
ever thought of as companions in their trade. The horse Delawares ranged
from Texas to the Three Forks of the Missouri, signed no peace with any
plains tribe, and were known for their courage. They accompanied Fremont and
the the Army into the Great Basin and, I believe, California.
The same artist I cited (Alfred Jacob Miller)did a number of drawings of the
horse Delawares taking the Fur Rendezvous caravans into Sioux country. Most
are armed with guns, but some carry bow cases and quivers, and a few lances.
The bow was the best tool for hunting buffalo at this point because
reloading was problematic on horse, and lances were a very dangerous way to
kill a buffalo. The horse Delawares would have had trading access to the
very best of the horn/composite bows from the Northwest, as well as the high
quality osage bows from the Santa Fe trade.
All in all they were some kick-ass indians from Joisey. :-)
Dave
Wolfgang
>
> BJC wrote in message ...
> >
> >David Snedeker wrote in message ...
> >
> >>I don't know what your exact point is . .
> >I loose. I'll Pay.
>
> BJ
> Buy me a Pacifico at some future cosmic clave, Ive got a lifetime supply
of
> abolene anyway. Besides, Im descended from Jerseymen too, so call it
square.
Hm......I've followed this little bet since it's inception....even looked at
some of the cited references, and I find myself somewhat perplexed.
Nowhere, after the original offer, has anyone made reference to the "...(
before europeans that is)..." condition. Granted, I haven't researched the
matter exhaustively, but I DO remember what the bet was, and nothing in the
ensuing material on ROFF suggests that the parties to the bet do.
The evidence presented thus far (at least what can be seen here) seems to
consist solely of references considerably later than first contact with
Europeans.
Wolfgang
who wouldn't be quite ready to collect on such a bet
David Snedeker
Wolfgang wrote in message <9js5ln$efm$1...@wiscnews.wiscnet.net>...
>The evidence presented thus far (at least what can be seen here) seems to
>consist solely of references considerably later than first contact with
>Europeans.
. . . which is why in the 1st para of my original response I said "I don't
know what your exact point is" and restated it because first contact is
incalculable, i.e. Leif Ericson?, Kenniwick Man? A Greenlandic Eskimo?
We can play the same game vis a vie the Asian influence, ie which wave over
the land bridge? etc etc.
So, as literally stated BJs bet WAS impossible to settle; however, we both
knew what was implied.
The overall sense of the issue is . . . did the North Americans develop
their own compound, reverse curve, and composite bows on their own, OR were
they merely copycats of European or Asian technology? The preponderance of
evidence, and the complexity of the technology, favors crediting the North
Americans with independently developing a powerful weapon capable of tearing
thru the musculature of a moving buffalo and the grizzly. Some of the
question also envolves the predilection to credit all such "dual use"
technology and the title "worlds best cavalry ever" to the Mongols. I just
think these misguided people have never studied the military history of the
Nez Perce.
Dave
Wolfgang
Oh.
Yeah.
Right.
Wolfgang
David Snedeker
Huh?
Dave
BJC
David Snedeker wrote in message ...
>question also envolves the predilection to credit all such "dual use"
>technology and the title "worlds best cavalry ever" to the Mongols. I just
>think these misguided people have never studied the military history of the
>Nez Perce.
>
>Dave
history of the Mongols. Were all not Mongols because of the Oak forest in
western europe. The logistics of 500,000 horses eating a swath of grass
10 miles wide stopped them somewhere by the Oder. I always though it was
king Wenceslaus that saved the west.
>
vittorio
because I am still looking for the best floatant.
A "reasonable" alternative means that I can live with it, but I am not
thrilled.
For example, I was not impressed with the Loon fly floatant that other
people in
the group seem to like: it is too thick for tiny flies (you have to
"thin" it between thumb and index for a while before applying it) ....
Oh well.
Vittorio
rdean3...@flash.net wrote:
>
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:52:07 -0400, vittorio
> <vittorio...@stanfordalumni.org> wrote:
>
> >Dave,
>
> >On a different note:
> >People mentioned that there are better floatants than Gink ...
> >such as ? Most alternatives I have tried do not work nearly as well,
> >they tend in general to be much more viscous (the paste ones), or to
> >wear off much faster (the liquid / spray ones). Some floatants I have
> >tried
> >are reasonable alternatives to Gink, but not better... Any opinions ?
>
> Yep. If they are (just) reasonable alternatives, fine, end of story,
> IMO. Why do they have to be "better?" And whose to say what's
> "better?" But, really, I've no problem with Gink-users, Gink-fans,
> or even Gink-drinkers, just Gink-bottlers....
>
> TC,
> R
> Certified 100% Gink-Free