MONTANA Clark Fork cover up?
Mike Glennon
Those that were interested had undoubtly seen the report in a fly fishing
Mag that there had been a major fish kill in Montana, and the denials
that were published as a result of the artical. There was also someone
who had put a notice on here reguarding a massive (I think the word used
was massive) Fish kill.
Several people, MYSELF INCLUDED, indicated that we had not heard of such
a fish kill (which we hadn't), and quoted the state as denying the fish
kill.
Well, I'm very sorry to have to bring to you the headlines of todays
Missoulian. "TAILINGS KILLED CLARK FORK TROUT". A report by Dennis
Workman (identified as fisheries biologist) and Rod Berg of the state
FIsh, Wildlife and Parks Dept. indicates a 62% decline in catchable
rainbows, a 71% decline of juvenile rainbows, a 56% decline in catchable
Browns, and an 86% decline in juvenile browns. This decline has taken
place between June of 1995, and June of 1996.
The fish taken in the survey (by electrofishing) were also in poor
physical condition, They were "skinny and not as lively".
The artical goes on to say that while things such as drought, ice
scouring and such as well as heavy metal release were considered all were
elimanted except for the metal downwash caused by opening the flood gates
to the MillTown Dam due to ice flows this last winter.
Water samples showed a total recoveable copper of 400 ppb on feb. 9th,
state standards are 18 ppb. The State goes on to say that there is no
physical evidence (dead fish) of a fish kill but....
All this is happening while The Atlantic Richfield Co. is trying to talk
the state into lowering it's standards for allowable copper in the upper
Clark Fork (keep this in mind when you buy you gasoline).
The area affected is the ClarkFork River below the Milltown dam.
Now I'm not saying there was a coverup, and I think the state bioligists
should be applauded for releasing this information, BUT, it do seem
strange that the information on a fish kill was apparently there long
before this artical was published, yet denied.
As for myself, I gave you the news as I read it, so I'm not going to
apologize, but my hats off to those that did sonmehow have the facts
prior to this artical (well before this artical I might point out).
Mike G. (mtco...@marsweb.com)
Lolo Mt.
Mike Glennon
craig sweet
I believe I posted way back in late Febuary that indeed there had been a
massive fish kill on the Clark Fork....at that time I recieved some
email from someone who apparently knew chemistry and he said I was full
of crap...that the copper levels proved nothing...well now we know they
did...and there has been a large reduction of trout in the river...in
particuler young fish....this state continues to support mining activity
that has had nothing put a detremental affect on our fisheries..there's
a gold mine proposed in the town of Lincoln on the Blackfoot River...93%
of ALL gold that is mined is used for cosmetic purposses...the Blackfoot
River is more valuable than gold....
jw...@netdepot.com
In article <320241...@marsweb.com>, Mike Glennon <mtco...@marsweb.com>
wrote:
See the article in September '96 Outside magazine relating to the goose
kill from a holding pit in Butte. I know you have to take articles in
context and environmentally focused publications are just as likely(?) to
be biased as the corporations and governments are. If even a thread is
true, it is incredible what has been done. Fish kills were mentioned there
as well, but it was stated that due to water color, the fish would ne be
seen. Also mentioned is a trout skeleton which is GREEN in color from
copper!
The article also said that many in Montana would like to see mining come
back inforce. I guess it is hard to turn down the economy which develops
as a result.
Joe Webb
Atlanta Mac User Group (AMUG)
joe_...@atlmug.org
jw...@netdepot.com
craig sweet
Well, it maybe true that "some" Montanans are gungho on mining..in fact
very conservative Republicans and mining town Democrats joined forces in
the last legislative session and seriously weakened our water quality
standards to favor mining interest...the bill was written by mining
lobbyest...anyway...this year there will be a ballot inititive to return
to the old water standards...agriculural, recreational, and outher
business interest are backing the inititive...
Mark Vinsel
In article <jwebb-05089...@europa05.netdepot.com>,
jw...@netdepot.com wrote:
>
> The article also said that many in Montana would like to see mining come
> back inforce. I guess it is hard to turn down the economy which develops
> as a result.
>
Yes - the Montana economy could sure use some more money that didn't have
Californians attached to it. Every new open pit mine is one more place
that Californians won't buy at an inflated price and ruin things. And mines
provide hundreds of good jobs - why work in a fly shop or as a guide
waiting on prissy Californians when you can do real man's work in a mine.
We all need more copper - personally my bucket of pennies is only enough to
last me a week or two in case of a bank failure. If the Californians are
moving up there for the perceived quality of life, the solution to the
Californication problem is to just reduce the quality of life, and trashing
trout streams is a step in this direction. All that pretty nature - who
needs it. I think Montana should be for Montanans.
Washington too.
; )
Mark Vinsel
Oakland, CA
JBPGAC
After the brou-ha-ha over how rotten Republicans are, it's refreshing to
see human nature come through at its finest. As Craig relates, "in fact
very conservative Republicans and mining town Democrats joined forces in
the last legislative session and seriously weakened our water quality
standards to favor mining interest". It's wonderful to see Repubs and
Dems working together in cooperation for a change, but apparently the
wrong change! Special interests are special interests and people from
either side of the aisle will react to them in the same way if there is
self interest at stake. Can't tell a book by its cover.
Brent
FFer4trout
In article <markv-070...@163.176.32.91>, ma...@farallon.com (Mark
Vinsel) writes:
>Subject: Re: MONTANA Clark Fork cover up?
>From: ma...@farallon.com (Mark Vinsel)
>Date: 7 Aug 1996 21:40:12 GMT
What do you call someone who moves to California and then moves to
Montana? Displaced Texan?
Why don't we strip mine Washington D.C.?
Don B.
SECRET SQUIRREL
AMEN.
F*#@ CALIFORNIA & CALIFORNIANS. THEY F***ED UP THEIR STATE NOW THEY
WANT TO F*** UP THE LAST BEST PLACE. WELL, F*** THEM! IF YOU SEE A
CALIFORNIA TAG, SHOOT THE F***ING BASTARDS RIGHT BACK TO
CALIF***INFORNIA!
Jwoodling1
Maybe you should cut back on the coffee. By the way, every time I've
been to Montana, the guides, hotels, restaurants, etc. have been more than
happy to take my money, even when they know I'm from California.
Spinoleo
>AMEN.
> F*#@ CALIFORNIA & CALIFORNIANS. THEY F***ED UP THEIR STATE NOW >THEY
>WANT TO F*** UP THE LAST BEST PLACE. WELL, F*** THEM! IF YOU SEE >A
>CALIFORNIA TAG, SHOOT THE F***ING BASTARDS RIGHT BACK TO
>CALIF***INFORNIA!
Oh well.
Buddy, if your attitude is an accurate reflection of the prevailing
attitude in "the last best place" I think you've lost your battle.
Paradise is lost; with people like you living there it was only a matter
of time.
You sound like a gang member.
Spinoleo
Ross Wilson
SECRET SQUIRREL wrote:
>
> AMEN.
> F*#@ CALIFORNIA & CALIFORNIANS. THEY F***ED UP THEIR STATE NOW THEY
> WANT TO F*** UP THE LAST BEST PLACE. WELL, F*** THEM! IF YOU SEE A
> CALIFORNIA TAG, SHOOT THE F***ING BASTARDS RIGHT BACK TO
> CALIF***INFORNIA!
Moron,
You left the "G" out of CALIF***INGFORNIA. Also, we prefer
to be called "CALIFORNICATORS" when blame for the ills of the world
is being heaped upon us. Get it right, ok?
I wished I'd followed this thread long enough to figure out how
we dumped heavy metals into the Clark Fork.
Ross W#*son
David C. Benjamin
Just remember TREENUT, everyone was from somewhere before
they were from there. I am sure the native americans feel
the same about you living in "their" territory.
Loosen up and you'll live longer and happier.
T-Bone
SECRET SQUIRREL wrote:
>
> AMEN.
> F*#@ CALIFORNIA & CALIFORNIANS. THEY F***ED UP THEIR STATE NOW THEY
> WANT TO F*** UP THE LAST BEST PLACE. WELL, F*** THEM! IF YOU SEE A
> CALIFORNIA TAG, SHOOT THE F***ING BASTARDS RIGHT BACK TO
> CALIF***INFORNIA!
I couln't agree more Squirrel Dude. Keep up the good fight.
When I was in SoCal last year (I will NEVER EVER GO BACK, they
have completely ruined a sanctuary there) I saw a bumper sticker.
"If you don't SURF here, don't BUILD here", ironic eh ?
I really want one for my Colorado vehicles. If you see one,
please send it along.
Thanks,
TimW
Don't Californicate Colorado
Mike Glennon
J:
Just a quick note to let you know we're not all raving ass'es, and, to
let you know I hope yopu have some quality fishing time here.
Mike G. (mtco...@marsweb.com)
Lolo Mt.
P.S. I started this thread as an informational report on the fish kill in
the Clark Fork due to heavy meatl releases for fellow fishermen
(persons?). How it degenerated into a forum for small minded fishing
skinheads is beyond me.
Jwoodling1 wrote:
>
> >AMEN.
> > F*#@ CALIFORNIA & CALIFORNIANS. THEY F***ED UP THEIR STATE NOW >THEY
> >WANT TO F*** UP THE LAST BEST PLACE. WELL, F*** THEM! IF YOU SEE >A
> >CALIFORNIA TAG, SHOOT THE F***ING BASTARDS RIGHT BACK TO
> >CALIF***INFORNIA!
>
Spinoleo
T-Bone <twa...@infosphere.com> wrote:
>SECRET SQUIRREL wrote:
>>
>> AMEN.
>> F*#@ CALIFORNIA & CALIFORNIANS. THEY F***ED UP THEIR STATE NOW THEY
>> WANT TO F*** UP THE LAST BEST PLACE. WELL, F*** THEM! IF YOU SEE A
>> CALIFORNIA TAG, SHOOT THE F***ING BASTARDS RIGHT BACK TO
>> CALIF***INFORNIA!
>I couln't agree more Squirrel Dude. Keep up the good fight.
>When I was in SoCal last year (I will NEVER EVER GO >BACK, they
>have completely ruined a sanctuary there) I saw a bumper >sticker.
>"If you don't SURF here, don't BUILD here", ironic eh ?
>I really want one for my Colorado vehicles. If you see >one,
>please send it along.
>Thanks,
>TimW
>Don't Californicate Colorado
So, I suppose the revised Libertarian platform will include provisions to
limit American's freedom of movement.
Too bad the the Libertarians weren't in control of things in the 1800's,
when thousands of Federal troops were sent into Western states to create a
"quality angling experience" for "Native Westerners" like Tim and his gang
member pal from Montana. Seems the Old West could never have been won
(i.e. cleared of Natives) without the help of the good 0l', tax-rich U.S.
government!
Spare me your pistol totin', Billy The Kid jack off.
A better bumper sticker for your car would simply read "White Trash".
Spinoleo
Mike Glennon
Ross
to sum up the heavy metal problem that I started this thread with, the
fish kill in the clark fork was caused by the elevation of heavy metals
due to the flooding and flood control measures taken this past winter as
reported in the Missoulian several weeks back.
Mike G. (mtco...@marsweb.com)
Lolo Mt.
Jeff Wilson
Sounds to me like a californian who immigrated to MT and now wants to
discourage everyone else. BTW californian are mostly people who got
tired of the rest of the country. I certainly welcome everyone to
move out of CA to a different state.
|Jeff Wilson jrwi...@gv.net
|
|...... Seek harmony and balance in the mountains, find harmony and balance within.....
Northern Californicator
In article <321E21...@NUT.COM>, SECRET SQUIRREL <TR...@NUT.COM> wrote:
>AMEN.
> F*#@ CALIFORNIA & CALIFORNIANS. THEY F***ED UP THEIR STATE NOW THEY
>WANT TO F*** UP THE LAST BEST PLACE. WELL, F*** THEM! IF YOU SEE A
>CALIFORNIA TAG, SHOOT THE F***ING BASTARDS RIGHT BACK TO
>CALIF***INFORNIA!
A shining example of why relatives should not mate!
Northern Californicator
In article <3221A6...@infosphere.com>, T-Bone <twa...@infosphere.com>
wrote:
>SECRET SQUIRREL wrote:
>>
>> AMEN.
>> F*#@ CALIFORNIA & CALIFORNIANS. THEY F***ED UP THEIR STATE NOW THEY
>> WANT TO F*** UP THE LAST BEST PLACE. WELL, F*** THEM! IF YOU SEE A
>> CALIFORNIA TAG, SHOOT THE F***ING BASTARDS RIGHT BACK TO
>> CALIF***INFORNIA!
>
>I couln't agree more Squirrel Dude. Keep up the good fight.
>
>When I was in SoCal last year (I will NEVER EVER GO BACK, they
>have completely ruined a sanctuary there) I saw a bumper sticker.
>
>"If you don't SURF here, don't BUILD here", ironic eh ?
>
>I really want one for my Colorado vehicles. If you see one,
>please send it along.
>
>Thanks,
>
>TimW
>Don't Californicate Colorado
Shame
Shame
Shame...
Yet another prime example of why fathers should not breed with their
daughters.
T-Bone
Alan Ferrin wrote:
>
> You people are sick. It is only ignorance to think people from
> anywhere ruin their State.
> I am from Boston, lived in California for 14 yrs. now live in
> Washington. I get blamed for the sea-lions eating the steelhead in the
> Puget Sound. Then people here say, " I am getting sick of everybody
> moving here, I am moving to Montana or Idaho to get out", what is the
> difference with what they are doing than what I did? Plain ignorant,
> that is all they are.
>
> Frustrated in Seattle
Not ignorant, but like you, they are frustrated.
I can't afford land here to build a house BECAUSE of
the influx of Californians with money.
TimW
Jeffrey A. Greenough
i've move to california and i can't afford to build a house here...
jeff
--
Jeffrey A. Greenough gre...@mothra.lbl.gov
Center for Computational Sciences and Engineering PHONE: (510)486-5348
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory FAX: (510)486-6900
Alan Ferrin
You people are sick. It is only ignorance to think people from
anywhere ruin their State.
I am from Boston, lived in California for 14 yrs. now live in
Washington. I get blamed for the sea-lions eating the steelhead in the
Puget Sound. Then people here say, " I am getting sick of everybody
moving here, I am moving to Montana or Idaho to get out", what is the
difference with what they are doing than what I did? Plain ignorant,
that is all they are.
Frustrated in Seattle
Alan
Rick Fletcher
Alan Ferrin (asp...@halcyon.com) wrote:
: You people are sick. It is only ignorance to think people from
I think we all ought to back off this one a bit. I tried to address this
concept a month or so ago, when I framed it as an issue of resources.
When the resources are plentiful, newcomers are welcome, but we all should
be sensitive enough to understand when "full is full"... we all want a
slice of the pie, but the pie is only so big.
The concept of limited resources is foreign to most in the modern US.
--
Rick
T. Rick Fletcher - http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/
Associate professor of chemistry | That's Idaho, not Iowa. | ad hominem
University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | ad hominem
Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don't grow potatoes. | ad hominem
T-Bone
Jeffrey A. Greenough wrote:
>
> T-Bone wrote:
> >
> > Alan Ferrin wrote:
> > >
> > > You people are sick. It is only ignorance to think people from
> > > anywhere ruin their State.
> > > I am from Boston, lived in California for 14 yrs. now live in
> > > Washington. I get blamed for the sea-lions eating the steelhead in the
> > > Puget Sound. Then people here say, " I am getting sick of everybody
> > > moving here, I am moving to Montana or Idaho to get out", what is the
> > > difference with what they are doing than what I did? Plain ignorant,
> > > that is all they are.
> > >
> >
> > Not ignorant, but like you, they are frustrated.
> >
> > I can't afford land here to build a house BECAUSE of
> > the influx of Californians with money.
> >
> > TimW
>
> i've move to california and i can't afford to build a house here...
>
SEE !
TimW
John Fereira
In article <3224A2...@infosphere.com> T-Bone <twa...@infosphere.com> writes:
>Alan Ferrin wrote:
>>
>> You people are sick. It is only ignorance to think people from
>> anywhere ruin their State.
>> I am from Boston, lived in California for 14 yrs. now live in
>> Washington. I get blamed for the sea-lions eating the steelhead in the
>> Puget Sound. Then people here say, " I am getting sick of everybody
>> moving here, I am moving to Montana or Idaho to get out", what is the
>> difference with what they are doing than what I did? Plain ignorant,
>> that is all they are.
>>
>> Frustrated in Seattle
>
>Not ignorant, but like you, they are frustrated.
>
>I can't afford land here to build a house BECAUSE of
>the influx of Californians with money.
made lots of money, decided California wasn't just like their stereotypical
image, and then moved to Colorado?
John (5th generation native Californian), but little money.
--
John Fereira
fer...@isis.com
Isis Distributed Systems - Ithaca, NY
T-Bone
I don't know.
All I really know is what the license plate on their new Ford Explorers
are.
It's amazing, really. The small town of redstone has all but been bought by
lesbian californian politicos (mayor or laguna beach and her dog catcher).
I'm being serious.
TimW
jeff osmundson
Alan Ferrin wrote:
> Then people here say, " I am getting sick of everybody
> moving here, I am moving to Montana or Idaho to get out", what is the
> difference with what they are doing than what I did? Plain ignorant,
> that is all they are.
>
> Frustrated in Seattle
I live North of Seattle and pretty much agree with Allen. There are creeps
that are locals as well as imports. - Doesn't seem to matter, if your a jerk,
moving doesn't help.
I have lived here since 1981 and have seen changes, mostly changes that are
disappointing. But what is the alternative? All I really ask on the stream
is a little space and polite hello's.
jeff
Secret Squirrel
Bite me!
T-Bone
Secret Squirrel wrote:
>
> Bite me!
,the delicate little adams said as it drifted perfectly
over the heads of a dozen good fish.
Michael D. Grenier
Get bent said the fish to the even straightening barbless hook!
;->