Trout sushi?
Scobey
and hope to catch a few stockers in the high lakes. I have created a big
problem for myself over the years by coming up with recipes for "real food"
instead of backpacking food, and now I'm expected to outdo myself each year.
(Hard to top my cherries jubilee flambe from a few years back -- you try
rigging that while backpacking!)
One of my ideas for this year is trout sushi. I can bring seaweed, rice,
vinegar, sugar, cucumber, and wasabi, and make a pretty good hand roll.
Makes sense for the fish to be nice, fresh, raw,
carefully-inspected-for-parasites trout flanks. But I've never heard of
trout sushi. Anyone know why?
--
Scoobey (Scott Bellows)
"Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum." -Ambrose Bierce
Joshua
Call any sushi chef and ask them. It's a no-no.
It is not recommended that fresh water fish be eaten raw....ever. FAR
TOO many micro-organisms and parasites to deal with.
if you must eat your catch, then grill it.
Joshua
--
to see my pets' pics click:
http://community.webshots.com/user/pokrsmokr
Frank Reid
the fixins. Doesn't sound like much, but the corn tortilla and fish just
seem to go great. If you don't want hot sauce, try a mango-orange-pinapple
picante sauce (just throw in some fresh cilantro).
Frank Reid
Scobey
lakes freeze solid in winter. To the best of my knowledge these fish will be
pure stockers. God and the DFW intended them for eatin'.
--
Scoobey (Scott Bellows)
"Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum." -Ambrose Bierce
On 6-Aug-2001, Jonathan Cook <jc...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
> if you must eat your catch, then grill it.
>
> Of course you must!
Scobey
thanks.
--
Scoobey (Scott Bellows)
"Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum." -Ambrose Bierce
Thomas Gilg
Freshwater fish should not be used for sushi because
of parasites and other potentially deadly things.
Likewise, salmon should be treated before being used for
sushi (see http://www.stickyrice.com/sushi/faqs/faqs.html).
Thomas Gilg
to...@cv.hp.com
Mu
>
> > Call any sushi chef and ask them. It's a no-no.
> >
> > It is not recommended that fresh water fish be eaten raw....ever. FAR
> > TOO many micro-organisms and parasites to deal with.
> >
> > if you must eat your catch, then grill it.
I've had trout sushi. Back in 1992 driving down a country road in the
northeastern corner of South Korea we passed a trout farm. The owner
dipped his net into one of the concrete raceways and pulled up several 14
- 18 inch fish. The flesh was white and it didn't taste too great in
terms of flavor. Obviously their diet was probably composed of grain
pellets and antibiotics. These days even farmed fish can be made to look
pink or orange depending on the feed. But fresh-killed sushi has a
certain other type of *flavor* associated with it. I can't really explain
it other than to say it tastes like *life*. The cells are still alive.
During that same road trip I decided to pass on the fresh cut octopus
legs, the ones where they are still wriggling and the suckers are
reflexively *sucking*. Wouldn't want to get that tentacle poking its way
into my trachea.
Mu
rw
>
> During that same road trip I decided to pass on the fresh cut octopus
> legs, the ones where they are still wriggling and the suckers are
> reflexively *sucking*. Wouldn't want to get that tentacle poking its way
> into my trachea.
One time, on a business trip to Japan, a friend of mine was the guest of
honor at a dinner featuring some very strange dishes. The "culinary"
climax of the evening was delivered to my friend -- a rather large, live
octopus flanked by a pair of formidable looking chopsticks. My friend,
being a game fellow and not wanting to insult his Japanese host, picked
up the octopus with the chopsticks, raised it to his mouth, whereupon it
wrapped itself around his face. Amid much laughter the octopus was
peeled from his face and the host explained, "No! No! You must KILL it
first!", and plunged the chopsticks into the beast's head.
--
visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/
Wolfgang
"Joshua" <Jos...@Rosenblatt.com> wrote in message
news:3B6ED0FF...@Rosenblatt.com...
>
> Call any sushi chef and ask them. It's a no-no.
>
> It is not recommended that fresh water fish be eaten raw....ever. FAR
> TOO many micro-organisms and parasites to deal with.
>
> if you must eat your catch, then grill it.
OK, I'll bite. Why would fresh water fish be any more prone to parasites
or harmful microorganisms than their saline cousins?
Wolfgang
saprophyte nonpareil
Charlie Choc
>OK, I'll bite. Why would fresh water fish be any more prone to parasites
>or harmful microorganisms than their saline cousins?
>
Maybe fresh water has more parasites than salt water? At least a couple
of other sources advise against using fresh water fish in sushi:
http://www.saltspring.com/sushi/fish.html
http://catalog.com/sushi/sushi-faq.htm
Could be an 'urbane' myth, though. <g>
--
Charlie...
Scott Seidman
news:3B70B300...@earthlink.net:
Wow
Scenes from Aliens!! I'd pay to see that on video. That may even top
George Bush Sr's emetic episode as my favorite Japanese dining scene.
My own personal policy is to never eat anything that tries to hold on to the
plate when I try to lift it up. This policy has never, ever, done me wrong.
Scott
Wolfgang
"Charlie Choc" <hugh_ja...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0r92nt05t6grhr9gb...@4ax.com...
The consensus seems to be that fresh water species DO carry more parasites.
So far though, I have seen nothing to support this assertion.
Wolfgang
98.6 anyone?
Scott Seidman
news:9kraag$h7i$1...@wiscnews.wiscnet.net:
Why is everyone so surprised by this? We know that giardiasis parasites are
in many waters where we fish for trout. We also know that there are many
places where raw sewage can get into a stream.
Maybe the warnings about eating fresh water fish raw is a holdover from the
days when a river or pond was a communal bath or bathroom. There are still
plenty of places in the US where public health isn't what it should be, and
I wouldn't test this as a myth by eating raw trout.
Another observation would be that single-celled organisms that live in fresh
water would have significant physiological differences from salt-water
organisms (I would think they need to be more advanced, or at least
different, to deal with an osmotic force that wants to blow them up), and
thus fresh-water parasites might have an easier time living through our
digestive mechanisms.
Scott
Wolfgang
"Scott Seidman" <ScottS...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:Xns90F757044B54DSc...@130.133.1.4...
> >> "Wolfgang" <wolf...@mcw.edu> wrote:
> >>
> > The consensus seems to be that fresh water species DO carry more
> > parasites. So far though, I have seen nothing to support this
> > assertion.
> >
> > Wolfgang
> > 98.6 anyone?
> >
> >
> >
>
> Why is everyone so surprised by this? We know that giardiasis parasites
are
> in many waters where we fish for trout. We also know that there are many
> places where raw sewage can get into a stream.
Actually, I'm not sure that anyone, let alone everyone, is surprised. I
merely expressed an interest in why fresh water fish are perceived to be
more dangerous to eat raw than their salt water counterparts.
To be sure, giardia, cryptosporidium, coliform bacteria, and a host of other
pathogens live in fresh water. However, knowing this does not necessarily
preclude the possibility that any or all of these can also live in salt
water. Nor does it make the existence of other, equally dangerous,
pathogens in salt water impossible.
There are indeed many places where raw sewage can and does get into streams.
Leaving aside, for the moment, the question of where the water in streams
ultimately goes, one can also wonder whether sundry oceans and seas are
somehow immune from the injection of raw sewage where they happen to contact
major metropolitan centers.
> Maybe the warnings about eating fresh water fish raw is a holdover from
the
> days when a river or pond was a communal bath or bathroom.
Could be. But then, people are STILL pissing in the Bay of Bengal, as far
as I know.
> There are still
> plenty of places in the US where public health isn't what it should be,
and
> I wouldn't test this as a myth by eating raw trout.
The port of New York might be such a place. I wouldn't advise testing water
quality there by eating raw tuna (assuming they inhabit the area) caught
from it. Ditto Los Angeles, Tokyo, Bangkok, etc.
> Another observation would be that single-celled organisms that live in
fresh
> water would have significant physiological differences from salt-water
> organisms (I would think they need to be more advanced, or at least
> different, to deal with an osmotic force that wants to blow them up), and
> thus fresh-water parasites might have an easier time living through our
> digestive mechanisms.
Maybe. On the other hand, salt water is a much closer approximation to
human body chemistry (never forget where ya came from!) than is fresh water.
Seems just as easy to suppose that salt water organisms would fare well
within the human digestive tract.
Wolfgang
rdean3...@flash.net
wrote:
>To be sure, giardia, cryptosporidium, coliform bacteria, and a host of other
>pathogens live in fresh water. However, knowing this does not necessarily
>preclude the possibility that any or all of these can also live in salt
>water. Nor does it make the existence of other, equally dangerous,
>pathogens in salt water impossible.
>
>There are indeed many places where raw sewage can and does get into streams.
>Leaving aside, for the moment, the question of where the water in streams
>ultimately goes, one can also wonder whether sundry oceans and seas are
>somehow immune from the injection of raw sewage where they happen to contact
>major metropolitan centers.
>
I don't think it is so much a "Freshwater fish(s) is always dangerous,
Saltwater fish(s) is always safe" as proper "sushi" (or sashimi, etc.)
is not just a random hunk of fish, and even salt species are treated
with what ranges from care (tuna, salmon, mackerel) to disdain (cod)
to the law (fugu - blowfish, when it swims). I suspect it is more a
"better safe than sorry" thing than a "no way, no how" thing, and no
decent sushi chef wants to make people sick (and by happy coincidence,
insurance companies agree...strongly). Heck, didn't a licensed fugu
chef commit suicide not to long ago for screwing up?
Factors, I suspect, making freshwater species more "dangerous" (or
just less desirable) are things like water temp, flow rate, and diet
of the fish, as well as things like tradition, flesh texture, and
consumer desire - you don't even see it cooked, smoked, etc. It could
even be the likelihood of um, less-then-wholesome sources of supply
with freshwater fish (it's easier and cheaper to poach a few
lake/river/stream species ("bream sushi" anyone?) than to deliver
several whole tuna or salmon).
I'd bet it's one the "old saws" with a basis in truth, like the
American one of eating oysters only in a month with an "R" (they just
happen to the colder time of the year). Eating an oyster in July
isn't going to definitely sicken anyone who might, it's just that it's
a much larger risk to eat what isn't going to be very good anyway.
One thing I'd notice is that there is little or no freshwater species
on sushi menus, and I'd suspect if it were as safe and desirable as
salt species, you'd see catfish, trout, tilapia, etc. up there, esp.
in America, and if for no other reason, price.
TC,
R
Joshua
Mu wrote:
> But fresh-killed sushi has a certain other type of *flavor* associated with it. I can't > really explain it other than to say it tastes like *life*.
I agree. "My" sushi joint in Los Angeles (which I'd be more than happy
to recommend to anyone if they travel that way) would often get live
Urchin, live prawns, live lobster and live crab.
You havent had fresh untilk you putthe flesh of a still contracting
prawn tail on your tongue.
Just one of the trade offs for moving to the Poconos. Then again, there
wasn't much trout fishing in Los Angeles...
Joshua
Joshua
Not sure, though I am glad you bit, it made for some very interesting dialog.
I don't have much more to contribute to said dialog, I just know that
every sushi chef I've asked said freshwater fish was no good for sushi.
Joshua
rdean3...@flash.net
<ScottS...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>rw <royal...@earthlink.net> wrote in
>news:3B70B300...@earthlink.net:
>
>> Mu wrote:
>>>
>>> During that same road trip I decided to pass on the fresh cut octopus
>>> legs, the ones where they are still wriggling and the suckers are
>>> reflexively *sucking*. Wouldn't want to get that tentacle poking its
>>> way into my trachea.
>>
>> One time, on a business trip to Japan, a friend of mine was the guest
>> of honor at a dinner featuring some very strange dishes. The "culinary"
>> climax of the evening was delivered to my friend -- a rather large,
>> live octopus flanked by a pair of formidable looking chopsticks. My
>> friend, being a game fellow and not wanting to insult his Japanese
>> host, picked up the octopus with the chopsticks, raised it to his
>> mouth, whereupon it wrapped itself around his face. Amid much laughter
>> the octopus was peeled from his face and the host explained, "No! No!
>> You must KILL it first!", and plunged the chopsticks into the beast's
>> head.
>
>Wow
>
>Scenes from Aliens!! I'd pay to see that on video.
Hmm...lessee, friend of RW's, killing involving saltwater, a fuck-up,
embarrassment, and having to have things peeled from faces...sounds
more like "Teddy Tries Tokyo"....that Kennedy clan is such a
hoot...thank heavens they hadn't given him a golf club as a memento...
TC,
R
Wolfgang
"Joshua" <Jos...@Rosenblatt.com> wrote in message
>
>
> Wolfgang wrote:
> >
> > "Joshua" <Jos...@Rosenblatt.com> wrote in message
> > news:3B6ED0FF...@Rosenblatt.com...
> > >
> > > Call any sushi chef and ask them. It's a no-no.
> > >
> > > It is not recommended that fresh water fish be eaten raw....ever. FAR
> > > TOO many micro-organisms and parasites to deal with.
> > >
> > > if you must eat your catch, then grill it.
> >
> > OK, I'll bite. Why would fresh water fish be any more prone to
parasites
> > or harmful microorganisms than their saline cousins?
>
> Not sure, though I am glad you bit, it made for some very interesting
dialog.
>
> I don't have much more to contribute to said dialog, I just know that
> every sushi chef I've asked said freshwater fish was no good for sushi.
Right. Meanwhile, both Richard and Greg have made some interesting points.
So far, we have established that fresh water fish may or may not be safe and
or delectable. Objections may or may not be based on safety issues, flavor,
texture, tradition, availability, or any combination of the above and or
other factors. I just found it curious that unsubstantiated claims that
fresh water fish is no good for sushi are so readily taken at face
value......especially in this crowd. :)
Wolfgang
skeptic to the bitter end.........well, maybe
Mu Young Lee
>
> Another observation would be that single-celled organisms that live in fresh
> water would have significant physiological differences from salt-water
> organisms (I would think they need to be more advanced, or at least
> different, to deal with an osmotic force that wants to blow them up)
Interesting point. Freshwater fish must continually work to prevent
diffusion of salts from their bodies into the water. Saltwater fish must
try to prevent the excess salts in the water from entering their bodies.
Perhaps salt fish piss more?
Mu
Mu Young Lee
>
> The port of New York might be such a place. I wouldn't advise testing water
> quality there by eating raw tuna (assuming they inhabit the area) caught
> from it.
I was told by the guys at Urban Angler that albacore can be caught on a
fly by the shorebound fisherman at Coney Island.
Mu
Mu Young Lee
>
> I agree. "My" sushi joint in Los Angeles (which I'd be more than happy
> to recommend to anyone if they travel that way) would often get live
> Urchin, live prawns, live lobster and live crab.
So, what's the name of the joint? A new place just opened up recently
near me and they get great uni (so I'm told, I don't like uni) from the
Santa Barbara area. Apparently most of the urchin from this area are
almost exclusively reserved for export to Japan.
> Just one of the trade offs for moving to the Poconos. Then again, there
> wasn't much trout fishing in Los Angeles...
There's good saltwater action here.
Mu, in Ventura county
rdean3...@flash.net
wrote:
>On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Joshua wrote:
>>
>> I agree. "My" sushi joint in Los Angeles (which I'd be more than happy
>> to recommend to anyone if they travel that way) would often get live
>> Urchin, live prawns, live lobster and live crab.
>
>So, what's the name of the joint? A new place just opened up recently
>near me and they get great uni (so I'm told, I don't like uni) from the
>Santa Barbara area. Apparently most of the urchin from this area are
>almost exclusively reserved for export to Japan.
I have no idea what amount is taken, and therefore, no idea how much
would be left after "almost all," but I can tell you that 3 places I
in which I know the source of the uni (I like it, so I kinda keep up),
all three usually obtain it from that general area (apparently, some
also comes from the San Diego area, as well). And there is no
connection between the places, as one is in NYC, another Florida, and
the third is in Texas, although I suspect uni suppliers are not a dime
a dozen, and the supplier(s) may be related or the same. I suspect
you've tried it more than once, but if not, if I may - if what you had
a very iodine flavor that put you off, try it again elsewhere.
TC,
R
rdean3...@flash.net
wrote:
>On Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:28:58 GMT, rdean3...@flash.net wrote:
>
>>
>>One thing I'd notice is that there is little or no freshwater species
>>on sushi menus, and I'd suspect if it were as safe and desirable as
>>salt species, you'd see catfish, trout, tilapia, etc. up there, esp.
>>in America, and if for no other reason, price.
>
>
> All your points make sense. But one alternative view
> to this one is that there is still a strong sense of tradition
> driving sushi preparation in the US and I suspect that
> given Japan's geography, saltwater species would dominate.
OK, that explains why I wrote:
"Factors, I suspect, making freshwater species more "dangerous" (or
just less desirable) are things like water temp, flow rate, and diet
of the fish, as well as things like _tradition_, flesh texture, and
consumer desire - you don't even see it cooked, smoked, etc."
<SEG>
But I would think that while tradition plays a part, I think there is
much more to it than tradition, and even, that tradition is not a
_major_ factor in the lack of freshwater preparations, in America or
anywhere else.
Even if the "traditional" Japanese preps didn't include the seemingly
more easily obtainable freshwater species of Japan, I suspect that
places like "Nobu"/"Matsuhisa" and it's namesake owner would be doing
things with raw American/Canadian and European freshwater fish if it
were (safely and readily) do-able, given the "Nouvelle Fusion Nippon"
(or whatever it's called) cuisine. Admittedly, this is all just
"cowboy logic" on my part, so I don't mean it is even _an_ answer,
much less _the_ answer.
Another thing to consider - look at "ceviche" preparations. I know of
none that use anything but saltwater products (not just fish). I
realize it isn't completely "raw," with the acids involved, but it
seems that the, well, "less-cooked" (i.e., no heat) consumption of
fish seems (somewhat) limited to saltwater fish, even across cultural
and geographic locales. Does anyone know of a situation where
freshwater fish, esp. in warm waters, are "normally" eaten raw?
TC,
R
Joshua
rdean3...@flash.net wrote:
>
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 12:51:15 -0400, Mu Young Lee <muy...@umich.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 8 Aug 2001, Joshua wrote:
> >>
> >> I agree. "My" sushi joint in Los Angeles (which I'd be more than happy
> >> to recommend to anyone if they travel that way) would often get live
> >> Urchin, live prawns, live lobster and live crab.
> >
> >So, what's the name of the joint? A new place just opened up recently
> >near me and they get great uni (so I'm told, I don't like uni) from the
> >Santa Barbara area. Apparently most of the urchin from this area are
> >almost exclusively reserved for export to Japan.
>
> I have no idea what amount is taken, and therefore, no idea how much
> would be left after "almost all," but I can tell you that 3 places I
> in which I know the source of the uni (I like it, so I kinda keep up),
> all three usually obtain it from that general area (apparently, some
> also comes from the San Diego area, as well). And there is no
> connection between the places, as one is in NYC, another Florida, and
> the third is in Texas, although I suspect uni suppliers are not a dime
> a dozen, and the supplier(s) may be related or the same. I suspect
> you've tried it more than once, but if not, if I may - if what you had
> a very iodine flavor that put you off, try it again elsewhere.
>
I definitely agree! Uni, when good, is just incredible. When bad, or
even slightly bad, it can put one off forever. Ooh, and the aftertaste
of uni that's just one day older than it should be... ugh.
Pacific urchins tend to be much larger, and more nutty in taste while
the Atlantic urchins (most I've had were from the north atlantic, are
much smaller and much sweeter).
Another dish which I highly recommend to those who lkiek Uni is
Sheo-kata. It's basically sliced squid slivers immersed in fermented
squid livers. It's very unique and may be an aqcuired taste. Antoher
delicacy that when ti's good, it can't be beat! eat it with a little
lemon rind and some she-saw (ohba) elaf and you'll love it!
Joshua
who is a sushi addict
rdean3...@flash.net
wrote:
>
>Right. Meanwhile, both Richard and Greg have made some interesting points.
>So far, we have established that fresh water fish may or may not be safe and
>or delectable. Objections may or may not be based on safety issues, flavor,
>texture, tradition, availability, or any combination of the above and or
>other factors. I just found it curious that unsubstantiated claims that
>fresh water fish is no good for sushi are so readily taken at face
>value......especially in this crowd. :)
>
>Wolfgang
>skeptic to the bitter end.........well, maybe
Well, lessee...I've never fired a shotgun at my foot, nor have I seen
anyone else do it. I have seen bullet wounds and I've seen that feet
seem less sturdy than things I've seen shotgun blasts damage, and so
putting it all together, I feel fairly safe that my reluctance to fire
shotguns at my feet is not only justified, but sensible. However, I
readily admit that I can't prove it...but I'm fine with that...<G>
Seriously, I would suspect that there are a whole host of reasons, but
it mainly comes down to "better safe(r) than sorry" with a dose of
"it's not all that good, anyway" or, at least, "the salt species are
better, anyway," tossed in, and sushi as we are discussing it is
hardly a "survival" issue.
Interestingly, on that subject, what survival training I've had
indicates that _all_ freshwater fish are edible (i.e., none are
poisonous), but certain saltwater fish and critters (or parts thereof)
are not, BUT that all fish should be cooked if possible, esp.
freshwater. On the other hand, there's that joke about "military
intelligence," so....
TC,
R
As always, your mileage may vary...and to a greater extent if you fire
at your own feet...
Wolfgang
<rdean3...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:v1p2ntc7690guo4m6...@4ax.com...
>...Does anyone know of a situation where
> freshwater fish, esp. in warm waters, are "normally" eaten raw?
Never heard of any such myself. Not surprising though; I believe there are
very few places in the world where the flesh of fish, fowl, or beast is
"normally" eaten raw. This is just a guess, mind you, but I suspect that
even in Japan it might be a bit of a stretch to use "normally" in the sense
that actually cooking fish is considered aberrant.
Wolfgang
wondering, in light of what he's read of traditional inuit cuisine, just how
long the term "raw" applies to an uncooked dead thing
Scott Seidman
news:Pine.SOL.4.33.010808...@pacman.gpcc.itd.umich.edu:
Fond portions of my youth were spent at Coney, especially at the original
Nathans. I believe the albacore you are referring to are known to be
"Junkie" albacore. They have been known to be caught with the syringe still
inserted, and the tourniquet still wrapped around their fins.
I would not eat one of those fish raw, especially when there are some of the
best Knishes in the world just down the street to nosh on instead.
Scott
Wolfgang
<rdean3...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:71v2ntgdt8iliro73...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:30:47 -0500, "Wolfgang" <wolf...@mcw.edu>
> wrote:
> >skeptic to the bitter end.........well, maybe
>
> Well, lessee...I've never fired a shotgun at my foot, nor have I seen
> anyone else do it. I have seen bullet wounds and I've seen that feet
> seem less sturdy than things I've seen shotgun blasts damage, and so
> putting it all together, I feel fairly safe that my reluctance to fire
> shotguns at my feet is not only justified, but sensible. However, I
> readily admit that I can't prove it...but I'm fine with that...<G>
A pretty enough analogy, but I choose to interpret the <G> at the end as
meaning that a refutation would be superfluous.
> Seriously, I would suspect that there are a whole host of reasons, but
> it mainly comes down to "better safe(r) than sorry" with a dose of
> "it's not all that good, anyway" or, at least, "the salt species are
> better, anyway," tossed in, and sushi as we are discussing it is
> hardly a "survival" issue.
I'm willing enough to take it on faith that eating fresh water fish is not
the safest of habits. My point however, remains, as it has been all along
in this discussion, that we have yet to be given anything more than an
appeal to faith.
Wolfgang
who has never, to the best of his recollection, deliberately pointed a fish
at his foot.......loaded or otherwise.
Mu Young Lee
>
> very few places in the world where the flesh of fish, fowl, or beast is
> "normally" eaten raw. This is just a guess, mind you, but I suspect that
> even in Japan it might be a bit of a stretch to use "normally" in the sense
> that actually cooking fish is considered aberrant.
Uncooked steak hasn't been too bad the few times I've tried it.
Mu
George Adams
George Adams
"From the rockin' of the cradle to the rollin' of the hearse, the goin' up was
worth the comin' down."
___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"
Scott Seidman
> On 8 Aug 2001, Scott Seidman wrote:
I'll put my geek hat on.
Its a great Donnan equilibrium problem, where there are negative ions inside
the cell that don't pass through the cell membrane. For osmotic balance,
think in terms of movement of the solvent instead of the ion. Because of
the presense of non-transportable salts inside the cell, intracellular fluid
will be more osmolar than pure water, and water must move into the cell.
For multi-cell organisms, the problem isn't so bad--our extracellular fluid
looks almost exactly like sea water!! It's on the single-cell organisms
level that stuff gets interesting. Any cell placed in deionized water will
rupture unless it has some mechanism to deal with it. I honestly don't
know how an ameoba deals with it. Maybe their intracellular fluid is more
dilute than I think.
As for salts, when an ion moves across the membrane, the membrane develops
an electrical charge that tends to counter further movement of that ion
across that membrane, so salts won't move around so much. A charge, though,
can do nothing to regulate flow of water, which is electrically neutral.
For those not yawning yet, voltage-dependent changes in how permeable the
membrane is to certain ions is the mechanism by which neurons conduct
information.
Scott
Mu Young Lee
>
> Nathans. I believe the albacore you are referring to are known to be
> "Junkie" albacore. They have been known to be caught with the syringe still
> inserted, and the tourniquet still wrapped around their fins.
>
> I would not eat one of those fish raw, especially when there are some of the
> best Knishes in the world just down the street to nosh on instead.
Memories. The closest thing we've got to a New York hot dog here in the
LA area is believe it or not, the hot dogs at Home Depot. There's a place
called Pinks in Hollywood that's better but the service is ridiculously
slow (15 - 20 minutes is typical). Definitely not worth the wait. In
fact waiting there made me very angry because you can see the slothlike
movements of the people who work there.
Mu, knishless in tinseltown
Wolfgang
> Fond portions of my youth were spent at Coney, especially at the original
> Nathans. I believe the albacore you are referring to are known to be
> "Junkie" albacore. They have been known to be caught with the syringe
still
> inserted, and the tourniquet still wrapped around their fins.
>
> I would not eat one of those fish raw, especially when there are some of
the
> best Knishes in the world just down the street to nosh on instead.
Ya just GOTTA love this place! Where else are the multitudes gonna get
their knishes and fishes, their stouts and trouts, their hot buns and
shotguns, their uni and Mu Lee, all in one place? :)
Wolfgang
hell yes, i can quit any time i want..........just don't wanna, yet
rdean3...@flash.net
wrote:
<G>... I only put "normally" in quotes to indicate matter-of-taste
preparations (such as "Tartare," carpaccio, ceviche, sushi/sashimi,
etc.) where at least a portion of the culture ate the item in a
variety of ways, with "raw" being one of the more or less "standard"
ways, rather than in survival situations, Fraternity initiations,
etc., where "raw" is not the norm...
TC,
R
...hmm....maybe ROFF pledges could be fed raw, un-refrigerated
pork...talk about "survival of the fittest"....
Wolfgang
"Mu Young Lee" <muy...@umich.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.4.33.01080...@frogger.gpcc.itd.umich.edu...
> Uncooked steak hasn't been too bad the few times I've tried it.
Agreed. We eat a lot of venison here. It sits on the grill long enough to
get warm, but it's still virtually raw.
Wolfgang
Wolfgang
> Fond portions of my youth were spent at Coney, especially at the original
> Nathans. I believe the albacore you are referring to are known to be
> "Junkie" albacore. They have been known to be caught with the syringe
still
> inserted, and the tourniquet still wrapped around their fins.
>
> I would not eat one of those fish raw, especially when there are some of
the
> best Knishes in the world just down the street to nosh on instead.
Ya just GOTTA love this place! Where else are the multitudes gonna get
Joshua
Mu Young Lee wrote:
> Memories. The closest thing we've got to a New York hot dog here in the
> LA area is believe it or not, the hot dogs at Home Depot. There's a place
> called Pinks in Hollywood that's better but the service is ridiculously
> slow (15 - 20 minutes is typical). Definitely not worth the wait. In
> fact waiting there made me very angry because you can see the slothlike
> movements of the people who work there.
>
> Mu, knishless in tinseltown
Amen.... but....
You've got Johnnies (WLA) and Langar's (Macarthur Park area) for
Pastrami. Oooh yeah!!!!
And don't forget the Pantry for a late night 'snack'.
Joshua
who's getting sick of pierogies and pizza....
Scott Seidman
Mu-
You might be knishless, but there's no reason to go without authentic
Brooklyn cheesecake. Just click on http://www.juniorscheesecake.com/ !
Juniors is a deli in Brooklyn, on Flatbush Avenue, across from the Brooklyn
campus of LIU. They always made a great cheesecake. When the place was
burning down, people stood outside yelling "save the cheesecakes". When
Juniors was rebuilt, they decided to mail-market them. Pricey, but one of
my reasons for living. I don't order via the web. I like to call them up.
The Brooklyn accent on the other end of the line brings tears to my eyes.
Maybe we can coordinate a cheesecake order for the next Penn's Clave, if
DavePA is willing to accept the shipping.
Scott
rdean3...@flash.net
wrote:
>
><rdean3...@flash.net> wrote in message
>news:71v2ntgdt8iliro73...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:30:47 -0500, "Wolfgang" <wolf...@mcw.edu>
>> wrote:
>> >skeptic to the bitter end.........well, maybe
>>
>> Well, lessee...I've never fired a shotgun at my foot, nor have I seen
>> anyone else do it. I have seen bullet wounds and I've seen that feet
>> seem less sturdy than things I've seen shotgun blasts damage, and so
>> putting it all together, I feel fairly safe that my reluctance to fire
>> shotguns at my feet is not only justified, but sensible. However, I
>> readily admit that I can't prove it...but I'm fine with that...<G>
>
>A pretty enough analogy, but I choose to interpret the <G> at the end as
>meaning that a refutation would be superfluous.
Yeah, that interpretation would be safer than shooting at your
feet...even with one of them Coney Island loaded tuna...
>
>> Seriously, I would suspect that there are a whole host of reasons, but
>> it mainly comes down to "better safe(r) than sorry" with a dose of
>> "it's not all that good, anyway" or, at least, "the salt species are
>> better, anyway," tossed in, and sushi as we are discussing it is
>> hardly a "survival" issue.
>
>I'm willing enough to take it on faith that eating fresh water fish is not
>the safest of habits. My point however, remains, as it has been all along
>in this discussion, that we have yet to be given anything more than an
>appeal to faith.
Oh, Lord...faith...OK, the loaves were probably baked, but the fishes?
Hmm...Biblical Sushi...sounds like some funky new-age band...what was
their hit? Oh, yeah....
"Goin' on up to the YO! Sushi in the sky,
That's where I'm goin' when I die,
When I die, and they lay me to rest,
I'll eat crappie sushi, 'cause it's really the best,
Goin' on up to the tatami in the sky....
---Tatami in the sky---
Prepare wasabi, you know it's a must(ard)
You gotta have a friend in Jesus
So that you know if you don't fry,
You're gonna be on a tatami in the sky...."
TC,
R
Stan Gula
> I'll put my geek hat on.
And a very nice geek hat it is. And much more polite that Paul's.
Heh, heh, he said 'ass molar'.
rdean3...@flash.net
<sg...@noporkbellatlantic.net> wrote:
>
>"Scott Seidman" <ScottS...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns90F797DABFEE9Sc...@130.133.1.4...
>> I'll put my geek hat on.
><snip>
>
>And a very nice geek hat it is. And much more polite that Paul's.
>
Awww, how sweet...lemmee guess...he had you at "equilibrium"...<G>
TC,
R
Mu Young Lee
> No wonder you guys became fly fishermen.........you ate all the bait.
I love salmon eggs. My uncle once brought back a bunch from Siberia.
They were fantastic.
Now, I won't eat hexagenia limbata nymphs although some Michigan
steelheaders hold them in their mouths to prevent them from freezing.
As a kid I loved roasted silkworm pupae that had been extracted from their
cocoons. I tried them again a few years back and gagged.
Mu
Mu Young Lee
>
>
> Agreed. We eat a lot of venison here. It sits on the grill long enough to
> get warm, but it's still virtually raw.
The kind I eat is sliced really thin and is practically frozen when it
arrives. As it immediately unfreezes on your tongue the flesh seems to
melt along with the ice.
Mu
Mu Young Lee
>
> You might be knishless, but there's no reason to go without authentic
> Brooklyn cheesecake. Just click on http://www.juniorscheesecake.com/ !
Man o man. When I used to work for the Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce we
sometimes had business luncheons at Juniors. Yum yum.
Mu
rdean3...@flash.net
wrote:
>No wonder you guys became fly fishermen.........you ate all the bait.
>
>
>
>
>George Adams
>
Popular sign in Fort Worth (Texas) -
"In Dallas, they call it "sushi"
In Fort Worth, we call it "bait."
Interestingly, Fort Worth (and certainly, Tarrant County) probably now
has more sushi choices, restaurant-wise, based on population, than
Dallas.
TC,
R
cy...@tiny.net
>fresh water fish is no good for sushi are so readily taken at face
>value......especially in this crowd. :)
>
>Wolfgang
I believed it because every fish (all freshwater) that I ever cleaned
as a kid had little nodules and stuff that I took to be parasites or
cysts. In fact, I assumed all fish had them and have avoided sushi
partly because of that. A tiny well cooked parasite never bothered my
mind. One on the loose in my digestive tract always has. Even before
a round of Giardia.
Any of the C & K folks want to comment on what they see when they
clean their catches in modern times?
---
rbc: vixen Fairly harmless
http://www.visi.com/~cyli
Wolfgang
<cy...@tiny.net> wrote in message
news:4s5cnt0k6m7cfdnh9...@4ax.com...
> .......Any of the C & K folks want to comment on what they see when they
> clean their catches in modern times?
I keep a few trout occasionally and blue gills only whenever I get the
chance. Blue gills are frequently infested with a small parasite that looks
like little grains of pepper. I have been assured that these are entirely
harmless. I have never noticed that they have any effect on the quality of
the meat. I don't recall that I have ever seen these or any sign of any
other parasite in trout.
Wolfgang
Mike Connor
"Wolfgang" <wolf...@mcw.edu> wrote in message
news:9l8hdq$gao$1...@wiscnews.wiscnet.net...
I would like to know how to keep things without getting the chance? :)
TL
MC
Wolfgang
"Mike Connor" <MIKE-...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:9l8k3j$m0b$05$3...@news.t-online.com...
So would I! Can't have too many blue gills.
Wolfgang
beset by hunger