What detergent to wash gore-tex waders
Ande Rychter
The washing instructions for the Simms Guide waders say to wash them
in a mild "powdered" ("powdered" underlined) detergent. I called Simms
to find out which particular powdered detergent they recommended.
The young woman at Simms presented herself a the person to answer my
question but when I menitoned the Guides, she didn't quite seem to know
what I was talking about. After some more explanations on my part she
finally said "Use Tide". Since I got the impression that that was the
first brand that came to her mind I was still left uncertain.
Does anybody know what particular powder I should use? Anybody there
from Simms?
Thanks in advance,
-Ande Rychter
Rick Fletcher
Ande Rychter (an...@trout.zso.dec.com) wrote:
: The washing instructions for the Simms Guide waders say to wash them
: in a mild "powdered" ("powdered" underlined) detergent. I called Simms
: to find out which particular powdered detergent they recommended.
You wash them? I thought you were a manly man.
Sheesh.
OBroff: Has anyone else noticed that a fish always rises to the fly if
the fly hits the water *before* the line? Always. Well, almost always.
--
Rick
T. Rick Fletcher - http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/
Associate professor of chemistry | That's Idaho, not Iowa. | ad hominem
University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | ad hominem
Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don't grow potatoes. | ad hominem
JASON P. BEARY
Ande Rychter wrote:
>
> The washing instructions for the Simms Guide waders say to wash them
> in a mild "powdered" ("powdered" underlined) detergent.
Why, in heaven's name, are you washing your waders? Aren't you already
wearing them IN water? If you caught a RREEEEEAALY Big fish and have to
, uh, hem, clean the INSIDE, then use a cloth moistened in hot soapy
water. Then, allow them to air dry. The cleanlyness of the outside of
your waders is irrelevant.
JB
Al Beatty
an...@trout.zso.dec.com (Ande Rychter) wrote:
>Does anybody know what particular powder I should use? Anybody there
>from Simms?
Hi Ande
I wash mine in liquide Tide. Tip: rinse the waders twice. The first
time in the regular wash cycle with the waders right side out. The
second rise with the waders turned inside out. The reason being it's
difficult to get the soap residue out of the inside of the waders unless
you turn them inside out.
Tight Lines
Al Beatty
BT's Fly Fishing Products
Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)
Kat Cruickshank
JASON P. BEARY wrote:
> Andy:
> Why, in heaven's name, are you washing your waders? Aren't you
> already wearing them IN water?
Because they're Gore-Tex (tm), and perversely, Gore-Tex has to be kept
clean to retain its waterproofness. I wash my GT stuff in warm water,
with a bit less powdered detergent than usual (I don't think the brand
of detergent matters; what matters is making sure it all rinses out).
I don't wash them with my other clothes. Then, tumble dry HOT! Or
even iron (low setting)!
There is also a product called Nikwax TX-Direct that you can treat
Gore-Tex with after washing, by adding to the washer and running
another cycle. It reinforces the waterproofing by making the outer
fabric shell (which is *not* Gore-Tex) more water resistant. If your
waders aren't performing as well as you'd like you may want to give
that stuff a try as well. Any store that sells a lot of Gore-Tex
clothing will have it.
Happy wading,
--
K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html
Rick Fletcher
Kat Cruickshank (tr...@mackerel.com) wrote:
: Because they're Gore-Tex (tm), and perversely, Gore-Tex has to be kept
Hey Kat,
Do you (or anyone here) understand why it is necessary to keep Gore-Tex
clean to keep it waterproof? Would you mind sharing that info? I didn't
know that.
Wayne Harrison
flet...@harrier.csrv.uidaho.edu (Rick Fletcher) wrote:
>Ande Rychter (an...@trout.zso.dec.com) wrote:
>: The washing instructions for the Simms Guide waders say to wash them
>:
>OBroff: Has anyone else noticed that a fish always rises to the fly if
>the fly hits the water *before* the line? Always. Well, almost always.
>--
>Rick
>T. Rick Fletcher - http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/
>Associate professor of chemistry | That's Idaho, not Iowa. | ad hominem
>University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | ad hominem
>Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don't grow potatoes. | ad hominem
no.
a. wayne harrison
Nina & Akiva Smith
Rick Fletcher writes:
>Do you (or anyone here) understand why it is necessary to keep
>Gore-Tex clean to keep it waterproof? Would you mind sharing that
>info? I didn't know that.
>--
I could be wrong, but as I understand it...
Gore-Tex is a fabric which is not quite woven rather it is spun
flat. This produces microscopic holes which allow water vapor to
pass through yet are too small for full sized water mollecules(sp.)
under pressure up to 2 atmospheres to pass through.
When the fabric becomes dirty and the holes clog up, then water
pressure can push on the dirt particles to open up larger holes -
thus causing a leak.
Also, I am not sure about this but I think that part of the process
is that the surface tension of the fabric stops some of the water
pressure from causing leaks. Don't know, but maybe if the fabric
is dirty the surface tension is diminished.
Anyway, this is the way I understand how Gore-Tex fabric works.
I could be wrong, but somehow I remember reading a article about
it and I came away with this understanding.
Good luck finding out the real reason.
Tight Lines -- Akiva Smith -- sn...@ix.netcom.com
Jon McAnulty
In article <4vk8tb$4...@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> sn...@ix.netcom.com(Nina & Akiva Smith) writes:
>From: sn...@ix.netcom.com(Nina & Akiva Smith)
>Subject: How Gore-Tex (r) works (was Re: What detergent to wash gore-tex waders)
>Date: 23 Aug 1996 12:41:15 GMT
>Rick Fletcher writes:
I believe Gore-Tex is expanded PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene). This is a
plastic sheet that when expanded develops pores that are smaller than
condensed water droplets but allow water vapor transport. The fabric you see
when you look at Gore-Tex is for strength as the PTFE alone would not
withstand much punishment. As a sheet of plastic the waterproof capabilites
should not be affected by the cleanliness. However, the breathability requires
that the pores be open and thus must be clean. It seems unlikely that your
theory on water pressure into dirt clogged holes would be true. More likely
that dirty Gore-Tex prevents transpiration of sweat vapor which then condenses
and leaves you damp.
Jon
Jon McAnulty
In article <321DD0...@infosphere.com> T-Bone <twa...@infosphere.com> writes:
>From: T-Bone <twa...@infosphere.com>
>Subject: Re: How Gore-Tex (r) works (was Re: What detergent to wash gore-tex waders)
>Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:38:20 -0600
>this confusion may have resulted from the idea that neoprene gloves
>need to be wet to insulate ?
>TimW
That's possible. Also, some fabrics which are chemically treated such as
Columbia's H2NO products rely on surface tension/hydrophobic effects to get a
breathable, water repellant garment.
Jon
Jon McAnulty
In article <321DB6...@infosphere.com> T-Bone <twa...@infosphere.com> writes:
>From: T-Bone <twa...@infosphere.com>
>Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 07:48:42 -0600
>[SELDOM DOES A POST ANGER ME MORE]
>What is wrong with you people ?!?!
>Never *EVER* (Can I BE MORE PLAIN ?!?!?) WASH:
>VESTS or WADERS !
>Period. End of Discussion.
>TimW
>When you wash your vest, all of your accumulated fishing
>luck goes out with the rinse water. You won't be *due*
>for the big one until the middle of the next century.
If I washed my vest there would probably be little left of it by the end of
the agitation cycle.
Jon
T-Bone
T-Bone
Ande Rychter
Rick Fletcher (flet...@uidaho.edu) writes:
> Ande Rychter (an...@trout.zso.dec.com) wrote:
>
> : The washing instructions for the Simms Guide waders say to wash them
> : in a mild "powdered" ("powdered" underlined) detergent. I called Simms
> : to find out which particular powdered detergent they recommended.
>
> You wash them? I thought you were a manly man.
I must be going soft...
-AR
Rick Fletcher
Wayne Harrison (wa...@spyder.net) wrote:
: flet...@harrier.csrv.uidaho.edu (Rick Fletcher) wrote:
: >OBroff: Has anyone else noticed that a fish always rises to the fly if
: >the fly hits the water *before* the line? Always. Well, almost always.
: no.
Well, hello Mr. Chatty.
David C. Benjamin
I hate to bring this up BUT has anyone thought of
asking the manufacturer?
Michel Lajoie
>
> >: The washing instructions for the Simms Guide waders say to wash them
> >:
>
> >the fly hits the water *before* the line? Always. Well, almost always.
> >Rick
> >T. Rick Fletcher - http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/
> >Associate professor of chemistry | That's Idaho, not Iowa. | ad hominem
> >University of Idaho | Upper Left Hand Corner. | ad hominem
> >Moscow, ID 83844-2343 | No, I don't grow potatoes. | ad hominem
>
>
> a. wayne harrison
good answer Wayne
Ande Rychter
Tim Walker writes:
> Never *EVER* (Can I BE MORE PLAIN ?!?!?) WASH:
> VESTS or WADERS !
> ...
> When you wash your vest, all of your accumulated fishing
> luck goes out with the rinse water. You won't be *due*
> for the big one until the middle of the next century.
Tim -- The evidence seems to point to the contrary. With a freshly
washed vest, I fished the Firehole in early July. I caught several big
browns, including a 20-incher. I don't think they get much bigger than
that in the Firehole.
Cheers,
-AR
T-Bone
Now you've REALLY done it.
You only THINK you've gotten away with it. Mother nature keeps records.
You'll get yours when you finally spend the 8 grand on a trip to
New Zealand or something.
TimW
KCWalsh1
I hope that I can clear up some confusion on this topic. Gore-Tex is an
extruded material, which is similar to Teflon (PTFE). In the case of
our waders, we use a thicker version of Gore-Tex, labeled by Gore as
"Immersion Technology," which was originally developed for use in
overwater flight suits for the U.S. Air Force. This material is
laminated to a dense outer fabric and a nylon tricot inner liner material.
The outer fabric, whether our Micro Fiber or Cordura, is treated at
W.L. Gore with a very durable waterproof finish (DWR).
The Gore-Tex itself is highly durable, and in our estimation, the
finest waterproof, breathable barrier available on the market today. We
have experimented with other such materials and we used to offer an Ultrex
rain jacket, but none of the other waterproof breathables have compared
favorably for us to Gore-Tex. It is highly resistant to saltwater,
deet, gasoline and other corrosive liquids, and unlike popular
misconceptions Gore-Tex does not need to be cleaned to retain its
waterproofness.
We suggest occasional cleaning of Simms/Gore-Tex Waders with a mild
powdered detergent to retain the waterproof treatment (DWR) on the outer
fabric. It's easy to tell when your waders need it, as the outer fabric
will start to absorb water and will appear darker than normal. The
waders still should not leak, but will take on the weight of the water
that they retain. The brand of detergrent is not important, but it is
critical that the detergent be POWDERED. Liquid detergent actually
removes the DWR finish on the outer fabric.
Finally, the washing instructions for our Guide Weight Gore-Tex Waders
(with neoprene feet) are different than those for our Standard Gore-Tex
Waders (without neoprene feet). The Simms Guide Weights, due to the
construction of the neoprene feet with hot melt seam tape, should only
be washed by hand and air dried. The Standard Simms/Gore-Tex Waders can
be machine washed on a soft cycle and tumble dried in a normal clothes
dryer.
Don't worry about printing this post, specific cleaning and care
instructions are sewn-in to the top seam of all Simms/Gore-Tex Waders.
If you do not yet have Gore-Tex Waders, please remember if they don't
carry the Simms or Gore labels, they aren't Gore-Tex.
Tight lines and empty creels,
K.C. Walsh, President
Simms Fishing Products Corp
Ande Rychter
JASON P. BEARY" <jp...@lehigh.edu> writes:
> Why, in heaven's name, are you washing your waders?
I wash my fishing outfit every ten years whether it needs it or not.
-AR
Ande Rychter
David C. Benjamin, d...@virginia.edu writes:
> I hate to bring this up BUT has anyone thought of
> asking the manufacturer?
David, as I said in the original post, I got an off-the-cuff answer ("Use
Tide") from someone at Simms who didn't quite know what gore-tex waders were.
-AR
Ande Rychter
Tim Walker writes:
:Ande Rychter wrote:
:>
:> Tim -- The evidence seems to point to the contrary. With a freshly
:> washed vest, I fished the Firehole in early July. I caught several big
:> browns, including a 20-incher.
:
: Now you've REALLY done it.
:
: You only THINK you've gotten away with it. Mother nature keeps records.
: You'll get yours when you finally spend the 8 grand on a trip to
: New Zealand or something.
Tim -- Now you've got me worried. How can I undo the damage?
Thanks in advance,
-AR
Peter Metelski
Jon McAnulty (mcan...@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu) wrote:
: In article <321DD0...@infosphere.com> T-Bone <twa...@infosphere.com> writes:
: >From: T-Bone <twa...@infosphere.com>
: >Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:38:20 -0600
: >this confusion may have resulted from the idea that neoprene gloves
: >need to be wet to insulate ?
: >TimW
: That's possible. Also, some fabrics which are chemically treated such as
: Columbia's H2NO products rely on surface tension/hydrophobic effects to get a
: breathable, water repellant garment.
: Jon
Gortex relies on it's hydrophobicity for its remarkable
properties. There are far too many pores in Gortex garments to
get clogged completely by dirt, however the dirt that is there is
not hydrophobic. The dirt attracts water (hydrophylic) causing
gortex fabrics to lose their "beading-up" ability.
Once the shell is wetted through, the effectiveness of the gortex
backing is greatly reduced.
T-Bone
There is a way. But, it won't be easy. The fastest way to accrue
flyfishing karma is to head out in the dead of winter when nothing
is hatching except icicles. Fish until your fingers hurt and
don't complain. The next best way to get "Browning" points is
to create an anti-CR campaign on the Internet. This last
technique is amazingly efficient. You will no longer catch
'pan-sized' fish, but will immediately start nailing 10 and
15 pound beautiful wild fish that will test your resolve to the
marrow.
Good luck and I hope that you haven't done too much damage already.
TimW
(Did you know that a fellow caught a 30 inch brown from the firehole
in early July ? Right after you left, no doubt. It is rumored that,
not nly did he not wash his vest, but he rolled in bison dung on
the way down to the river).
T-Bone
KCWalsh1 wrote:
[delete]
> Tight lines and empty creels,
AAAARRGGGHHHHH !
Thomas Dalzell
In article <4vvb7u$o...@ninja.zso.dec.com> an...@trout.zso.dec.com (Ande Rychter) writes:
>From: an...@trout.zso.dec.com (Ande Rychter)
>Subject: Re: What detergent to wash gore-tex waders
>Date: 27 Aug 1996 17:28:30 GMT
>-AR
I used to manufacture Gore Tex garments. I think that Wl Gore has their own
cleaner. In additio they always used to recomend Zero, Downy, Ivory SNow,
those simple soap prodducts for delicates and knits.
Thomas
J & J SANDONE
Being fashionably conscious, I wash my vest at least 3x a year. After
the accumulated slime of say, oh, 2-300 fish starts to set up, I get
accused of ironing my vest.Can't have that now can we?
J & J SANDONE
Being fashionably conscious, I wash my vest at least 3x a year. After
the accumulated slime of say, oh, 2-300 fish starts to set up, I get
great oppurtunity to organize my vest after stuffing the pockets
randomly with what ever is in my hand.
DGracia
In article <4vvfq2$1a...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
pmet...@acs1.acs.ucalgary.ca (Peter Metelski) writes:
<SNIP>
>
>Once the shell is wetted through, the effectiveness of the gortex
>backing is greatly reduced.
The water reppellancy of the outer fabric has a lot to do with the comfort
of Gore-tex. When the outer fabric looses its DWR (Durable Water Repellant
finish) it no longer beads up water. This can result in the outer fabric
becoming soaked. When the outer fabric is soaked it does not reduce the
ability of the membrane to resist water or to "breathe". What it does do
is make it feel like it leaked. It transports the feel of the water next
to your skin without actually leaking. If you put a paper towel or other
absorbent material on the inside of the membrane it would still be dry.
Still doesn't feel good though. So you do need to renew the DWR from time
to time.
A simple way to renew the DWR is to iron the fabric with a warm - NOT HOT
- iron. After years of use this may no longer work, and I always feel a
little strange ironing my fishing stuff anyway. Gore-tex recommends
re-treating the outer garment with Techron or Scotchgaurd after washing
with Tide (Tide cleans the membrane). That way it not only works it feels
good doing it.
Good Fishing,
Dan
Dan Gracia
Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools
DGr...@aol.com
If you kill that big fish you can't catch 'em again. So what if they eat
other fish? If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left
(funny how that works!).
DGracia
In article <dalzell.47...@titan.tcn.net>, dal...@titan.tcn.net
(Thomas Dalzell) writes:
>I used to manufacture Gore Tex garments. I think that Wl Gore has their
own
>cleaner. In additio they always used to recomend Zero, Downy, Ivory
SNow,
>those simple soap prodducts for delicates and knits.
About 3 years ago I called William Gore Co. regarding an Orvis Gore-tex
jacket that was leaking after 6 years of use causing the owner some
consternation as he was headed for Alaska and was counting on it for his
raingear. They said to wash it twice with Tide and then spray it with
Techron or Scotch Guard. The tide cleans the Gore-tex and the Techron
renews the "durable water repellent finish (DWR)" which causes water to
bead up on the outside fabric instead of soaking into it and resting on
the membrane. We gave the customer a can of Techron and asked him to wash
his Gore-tex garment according to the recommendation we received from Wm.
Gore co and spray it with the Techron. He did, took it to Alaska, and
came back to let us know that it performed like new and he had a great
trip. In the current Gore-tex garments Orvis sells, you may also dry
clean it if you specify "clean clear fluid" - basically the first batch of
the day. If it is not the clean clear fluid dry cleaning can clog it.
Gore-tex actually changed its membrane around 6 to 8 years ago. It is not
safe to dry clean the earlier material. Now it is an expanded PTFE
membrane which won't clog or deteriorate with salt, gas, oil etc.
Hope this helps,