OT Vista
Larry L
anything that doesn't have Vista as the OS ( I looked at the MacBook Pro but
don't want to spend that much to send e-mail and store a few photos
...besides Apple people always seem to be a bit weird :-)
Is Vista as bad, buggy, and machine clogging, as I've heard ...i.e. pretty
damn bad? I've don't know anyone, personally, that is using it.
notbob
> Is Vista as bad, buggy, and machine clogging, as I've heard ...i.e. pretty
> damn bad? I've don't know anyone, personally, that is using it.
Yep. My buddy, who was a six figure income sysadmin, moved up from XP to
Vista. After 2 mos, he dumped it in a frustrated rage after it trashed his
HDD and he returned to XP.
Dell and Lenovo (formerly IBM) still sell XP laptops, but you'd better
hurry, as M$ is killing XP availability, shortly. Also, lest you be
tempted, M$ has a class action suit against it for falsely labeling "Vista
Capable" computers, which they are not.
nb (recommends Linux)
Derek
"notbob" <not...@nothome.com> wrote in message
news:r1PIj.25274$PY1....@fe109.usenetserver.com...
does the Eula still apply - in that bit where it says if you don't not agree
with
the terms and conditions return the software to your retailer for a refund
or replacement.
Derek
(uk)
Charlie Choc
>Is Vista as bad, buggy, and machine clogging, as I've heard ...i.e. pretty
>damn bad? I've don't know anyone, personally, that is using it.
>
Not really. I've been running it since the early betas, and now with SP1 it is
comparable in speed and stability to XP, at least for mainstream stuff. There's
a bit of a learning curve but not too bad. Most of the issues seem to deal with
legacy app's and peripherals.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com
rdean3...@flash.net
<larry_l...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'd recommend solving your problem by buying a good used laptop running
XP. I've seen laptops that would be way beyond enough for your stated
usage for $100-300.00USD on Craigslist, in the classifieds, etc. And
these aren't particularly old units - P4 class with 512 megs, 40-80 gig
HDs, CDRW/DVD players, etc. and better. Some folks, esp. gamers, simply
can't resist buying the "latest and greatest." I picked up a fairly
decked out large-screen ThinkPad (18 month old) for $150 on CL about 3
months ago. I bought it for use on a boat, so I didn't want to spend
much, and was somewhat shocked at what a coupla-hundred US would buy.
If you simply wish to buy new and/or use Vista, I'd offer that Charlie
Choc is about as good a source as you're likely to find (although not
the exclusive source) on ROFF. I've not upgraded any of our machines to
it simply because I've not found a need to do so - IOW, don't fix what
ain't broke.
TC,
R
JT
"Charlie Choc" <charli...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:brg7v39nvstatas6m...@4ax.com...
Ditto that...
If you are starting fresh and aren't planning to migrate pre Vista software,
you should be fine. We have started moving some users to Vista at work
without issues and my new (4 month old laptop) has been stable.
JT
Larry L
<rdean3...@flash.net> wrote
> I'd recommend solving your problem by buying a good used laptop running
> XP.
Since I posted earlier today I found a 'refurbished' one at Dell with a 1
year warranty and more than enough power ( AMD dual-core 1.8ghz, 1gig ram,
fast vid card, onboard WiFi etc ) for my modest needs ... $446.00 to my
door
One reason I wanted to avoid Vista is because I DO have several older
programs I want to run ... and a couple oddball things like Apache, PHP and
MySql, too I KNOW they all work fine on XP, have them on several
different machines, but I'm not looking for a hassle trying to get it all
running on an unknown ( to me ) OS
Thanks all for replies
rdean3...@flash.net
wrote:
To me, the pre-Vista issue is _MAJOR_ factor. For example, it took a
while for Garmin to catch up with XP SR2 - the software needed to
install maps, etc. didn't work with SP2 for a period, which was a major
PITA. I'd offer that one should really investigate what their needs are
before such an upgrade to the OS. This is among the reasons we haven't
upgraded yet.
TC,
R
rdean3...@flash.net
Glad it worked out and it sounds like you got a deal.
TC,
R
rw
> ...besides Apple people always seem to be a bit weird :-)
Yeah, we're weird. We like software that actually works. :-)
--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.
Charlie Choc
> For example, it took a
>while for Garmin to catch up with XP SR2 - the software needed to
>install maps, etc. didn't work with SP2 for a period, which was a major
>PITA.
FWIW, MapSource works fine on Vista.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com
JT
<rdean3...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:bkl7v3tallj058nhb...@4ax.com...
I would agree completely. I was going off Larry's first e-mail where he
mentioned using it for e-mail and saving photos. Had he mentioned adding
older software in the first post, I would have said no way.
JT
rw
If you'd bought an Intel-based Mac (it would be more than $446) you'd be
able to run XP AND Vista, in addition to OS X, which is superior to both
of them.
Bundled software (Boot Camp) lets you boot into any of those OS. You
could also run Linux, and probably some other OS I'm not aware of.
With third-party virtualization software (Parallels or VMware Fusion)
you'd be able to run all of them at the same time.
Guy
Just purchased a new laptop with Vista. Functions ok but disappointed so
far. Will not allow Photoshop and digital camera software to load. Guess I
could go to the websites and try to get some compatible install programs for
my software. Pain in the ass. The alternative is waiting for Service Pack 1
from MS, if there is such a thing :( If I cannot get my personal software
to load, I will probably just reformat and install XP.
For what its worth.
Guy
Charlie Choc
>Just purchased a new laptop with Vista. Functions ok but disappointed so
>far. Will not allow Photoshop and digital camera software to load. Guess I
>could go to the websites and try to get some compatible install programs for
>my software. Pain in the ass. The alternative is waiting for Service Pack 1
>from MS, if there is such a thing :( If I cannot get my personal software
>to load, I will probably just reformat and install XP.
>For what its worth.
>Guy
>
SP1 is out. Photoshop CS2 will run on Vista, but CS3 is the only version Adobe
supports.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com
Larry L
"rw" <rw56_to_...@earthlink.net> wrote
>
> If you'd bought an Intel-based Mac (it would be more than $446) you'd be
> able to run XP AND Vista, in addition to OS X, which is superior to both
> of them.
>
> Bundled software (Boot Camp) lets you boot into any of those OS. You could
> also run Linux, and probably some other OS I'm not aware of.
>
> With third-party virtualization software (Parallels or VMware Fusion)
> you'd be able to run all of them at the same time.
>
I'd like to try a Mac someday
... but, as mentioned, my shopping made it seem beyond my needs/means just
to stick in the travel trailer
... we're still spending plenty each year getting the kid higherly
eddakated at the fancy universery
....so I drive a '92 Dodge and buy used laptops
..... but a bit of a brag on the returns from my investment, the kid called
this morning with the news that he was accepted into Phi Beta Kappa, not a
huge deal, but they Have had a couple fairly accomplished members since
1776, so
.... I be proud, ( and glad he takes after his mom, not his Okie bumpkin,
dimly lit, old man )
Larry L
"Guy" <guytee2 at comcast dot net> wrote
> from MS, if there is such a thing :( If I cannot get my personal
> software to load, I will probably just reformat and install XP.
> For what its worth.
careful !!! I looked at one machine locally that the owner had
'downgraded' from Vista to XP .... his tale of horrors about finding XP
drivers for all the hardware on a machine built for Vista was enough to
scare me off that idea
notbob
> SP1 is out. Photoshop CS2 will run on Vista, but CS3 is the only version Adobe
> supports.
Seems to be one of the major probs with Vista. Many 3rd party software
vendors are taking a page from the M$ playbook and using Vista as an excuse
to force upgrades. Worked for Intel, as Vista is so bloated it requires
major hardware upgrades to run the much ballyhooed advanced graphics
features. Others are doing the same. For example, I hope you don't want
good sound from a Creative sound card. Notice, in this explanation by a
benevolent hacker, how a hardware company purposely crippled the drivers
for their own sound cards. This mindset does not bode well for Vista users.
nb
notbob
> good sound from a Creative sound card. Notice, in this explanation by a
> benevolent hacker, how a hardware company purposely crippled the drivers
> for their own sound cards. This mindset does not bode well for Vista users.
Oops... forgot the link:;
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/04/daniel_k-who-fi.html
nb
Chip Thomas
Vista is shit. If you get a Vista-based laptop you should immediately
upgrade to XP SP2.
Vista requires at least 1gb of memory, 512mb isn't even close (even M$
is quietly changing its recommended minimum requirements). Also
requires a more powerful video processor. Even with a nicely developed
system XP runs a lot faster. Vista SP1 is not an improvement.
The complete and utter failure of Vista is the reason M$ has accelerated
the release of the successor to Vista by almost a year.
Chip
(If Fedora Core 8 were faster, it would be a better choice than Vista.)
Guy
"Charlie Choc" <charli...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
Charlie,
My Photoshop is an older edition - 5.0 Limited Edition. It will do more than
I have time in my life to learn. Any ideas on how to install it? I will go
find SP1 and install.
Thanks,
G
Charlie Choc
>- 5.0 Limited Edition. It will do more than
>I have time in my life to learn. Any ideas on how to install it? I will go
>find SP1 and install.
Run the install in admin mode with XP compatibility (set these in the properties
dialog of the install program). If that doesn't work you're probably out of
luck.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com
Charlie Choc
>
> ... and a couple oddball things like Apache, PHP and
>MySql, too
I run my web server (Apache, PHP, MySQL) on Linux ,XP is a lousy platform for
Apache.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com
Guy
"Chip Thomas" <spam...@gmail.net> wrote in message
news:8iSIj.9176$Rq1....@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Larry L wrote:
>> I've been shopping for a laptop for my summer travels and it's hard to
>> find anything that doesn't have Vista as the OS ( I looked at the MacBook
>> Pro but don't want to spend that much to send e-mail and store a few
>> photos ...besides Apple people always seem to be a bit weird :-)
>>
>> Is Vista as bad, buggy, and machine clogging, as I've heard ...i.e.
>> pretty damn bad? I've don't know anyone, personally, that is using it.
>
> Vista is shit. If you get a Vista-based laptop you should immediately
> upgrade to XP SP2.
Is XP SP2 an upgrade for Vista? Or is it XP?
Thanks,
G
Chip Thomas
XP SP2 (XP Service Pack 2) is an upgrade from Vista back to XP. Its
moving backwards to a better operating system.
Larry L
"Charlie Choc" <charli...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote
> I run my web server (Apache, PHP, MySQL) on Linux ,XP is a lousy platform
> for
> Apache.
> --
agreed ...
I don't use it as a 'real' web server, just to test scripts on my local
machine, before uploading to a real server.
To be honest, the only reason I 'need' them on the laptop is that my fishing
log was built using PHP/MySql, so I keep track of getting skunked daily
using three 'Linux' Open Source apps. I may soon shut down my web site
and stop keeping track of the skunks. It served me well when I was still in
business, but my main reason for the domain, at this point, is that e-mail
addresses for my entire family go through it.
rw
An "upgrade" back to XP??? That's hilarious. I feel sorry for you guys.
Maybe you can get an upgrade back to DOS.
Larry L
"rw" <rw56_to_...@earthlink.net> wrote
>
> Maybe you can get an upgrade back to DOS.
>
Dangit ... I hate dorkie "LOL" posts
but, that, really had me
LOL
rdean3...@flash.net
<charli...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:59:57 -0500, rdean3...@flash.net wrote:
>
>> For example, it took a
>>while for Garmin to catch up with XP SR2 - the software needed to
>>install maps, etc. didn't work with SP2 for a period, which was a major
>>PITA.
>
>FWIW, MapSource works fine on Vista.
Oh, yeah, it now works on SP2 as well, but for a period of time (I can't
remember exactly how long, but it was more than a month, less than a
year) it didn't. As you can well imagine, having major issues with the
updating of nautical/offshore charts on chartplotters, GPSs, etc. in
larger boats, esp. in the wake of Katrina, was, um, well, not a good
thing.
TC,
R
Guy
Thanks.
My programmer guru son is dropping my grandkids off tonight while he and his
her go to Vegas. I will show him this string.
Where's the Xanax & Pain Pills!!!!!!! To hell with the blood pressure and
cholesterol meds.
G
Mike
> I don't use it as a 'real' web server, just to test scripts on my local
> machine, before uploading to a real server.
>
> To be honest, the only reason I 'need' them on the laptop is that my fishing
> log was built using PHP/MySql, so I keep track of getting skunked daily
> using three 'Linux' Open Source apps. I may soon shut down my web site
> and stop keeping track of the skunks. It served me well when I was still in
> business, but my main reason for the domain, at this point, is that e-mail
> addresses for my entire family go through it.
TL
MC
rdean3...@flash.net
<charli...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:49:19 GMT, "Larry L" <larry_l...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Is Vista as bad, buggy, and machine clogging, as I've heard ...i.e. pretty
>>damn bad? I've don't know anyone, personally, that is using it.
>>
>Not really. I've been running it since the early betas, and now with SP1 it is
>comparable in speed and stability to XP, at least for mainstream stuff. There's
>a bit of a learning curve but not too bad. Most of the issues seem to deal with
>legacy app's and peripherals.
OK, I'm curious as to your opinion as to why most folks would want to
upgrade to Vista.
TC,
R
Mike
beta does. Remains to be seen whether the final release solves the
problems. So be careful if you want to "upgrade".
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=68c48dad-bc34-40be-8d85-6bb4f56f5110&displaylang=en
With regard to Vista, I also "downgraded" to XP, as I simply had too
many problems with Vista and various applications. Was also extremely
slow.
I run one machine with this;
quite excellent, but some terrible problems with peripherals, most
especially external hardware drivers, ( scanner, printer, etc), so not
yet a real alternative to windows.
TL
MC
Charlie Choc
>OK, I'm curious as to your opinion as to why most folks would want to
>upgrade to Vista.
>
If you are happy and productive with XP on a current machine, no particular
reason - unless you want to switch to the 64bit version, which has better memory
management than the 64 bit version of XP. If you get a new machine with Vista on
it and the applications and devices you are using are currently supported by
their vendors, then there is no particular reason *not* to run Vista. If you are
waiting for the next OS from MS, be prepared to wait longer than you think, and
be advised that it will likely be more similar to, and have more in common with,
Vista than XP.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com
Mike
wrote:
That may well be so Charlie. If any of the linux distributions solve
a few of their problems with periphery drivers, then they will blow
windows away for many applications. Very many people, a large
proportion of the public sector, and many businesses here have already
changed to various linux distributions. For some of the high end
peripheral hardware, and most "normal" business applications, it is
just better. Less useful for many personal applications though because
of the driver problems associated with a lot of "personal" hardware,
and
the difficulty in getteing some "old" applications to run on it.
Although all in all, the linux software palette is greather than the
windows palette. It is also no longer just a "geek" system.
This may be of interest;
TL
MC
rdean3...@flash.net
I'm not waiting, nor would I wait, for any particular OS from either MS
or Apple. I look at PCs for personal use as no more or less than a
tool. If they are doing the job I intend them to do, I see no reason to
upgrade simply to upgrade, i.e., without any practical benefit. I was
just curious as to your opinion as to any benefit in upgrading. I've
used Apples and IBM compatible/Windows since about '83 (I still have a
couple of Apple Lisas, one of which was sorta-directly from one of the
Steves - I can't remember which - a long story, IAC), and now use
(mainly) Windows machines for purely practical reasons: they do all I
ask at a price point that can't be touched by Apple machines.
Thanks,
R
jeff miller
>
> ..... but a bit of a brag on the returns from my investment, the kid called
> this morning with the news that he was accepted into Phi Beta Kappa, not a
> huge deal, but they Have had a couple fairly accomplished members since
> 1776, so
> .... I be proud, ( and glad he takes after his mom, not his Okie bumpkin,
> dimly lit, old man )
>
>
there is no better investment...no, there may be nothing better... than
seeing your child achieve beyond your own station, abilities, and
expectations. it is a huge deal, and all three of you are justifiably
proud in the accomplishment. it didn't happen without significant
effort by each of you. congratulations.
jeff
Wayne Knight
"rw" <rw56_to_...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5tmdnVFbB7IHRm7a...@earthlink.com...
> With third-party virtualization software (Parallels or VMware Fusion)
> you'd be able to run all of them at the same time.
And it generally works pretty well except on my Magellan software.
Magellan's software is not apple os compatible but the software doesn't
recognize the USB port where the GPS unit is plugged in.
Wayne Knight
"Larry L" <larry_l...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:QeRIj.64095$D_3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I'd like to try a Mac someday
> ... but, as mentioned, my shopping made it seem beyond my needs/means just
> to stick in the travel trailer
Apple allows students and/or their families to purchase one desktop and one
laptop per year at a slightly discounted price. You mentioned the macbook
pro but the entry level macbook is a pretty decent machine and more than
capable of handling the tasks you mention for around a grand with the
discount.
Congrats on the kid's accomplishments. You have every right to be proud.
fle...@highaltitudes.net
On 2-Apr-2008, "Larry L" <larry_l...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've been shopping for a laptop for my summer travels and it's hard to
> find
> anything that doesn't have Vista as the OS ( I looked at the MacBook Pro
> but
> don't want to spend that much to send e-mail and store a few photos
> ...besides Apple people always seem to be a bit weird :-)
>
> Is Vista as bad, buggy, and machine clogging, as I've heard ...i.e.
> pretty
> damn bad? I've don't know anyone, personally, that is using it.
Vista - yes it seems to be as bad - as everyone tells me
I just bought a Toshiba Portege - pricey but real light and I was "lucky"
to find one model w Windows XP
Fred
n...@here.com
<larry_l...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I've been shopping for a laptop for my summer travels and it's hard to find
>anything that doesn't have Vista as the OS ( I looked at the MacBook Pro but
>don't want to spend that much to send e-mail and store a few photos
>...besides Apple people always seem to be a bit weird :-)
>
>Is Vista as bad, buggy, and machine clogging, as I've heard ...i.e. pretty
>damn bad? I've don't know anyone, personally, that is using it.
>
I have vista. I would rather have ME instead of this crap OS. Before
you buy, please note that vista comes in several versions, and each
version is available in 32 and 64 bit. Most of your current software
will not work, or will have trouble working correctly.
You can start here to see some of the problems - these are questions
asked by end users.
http://www.vistaforums.com/Forum/Forum9-1.aspx?Update=1
--
Calling an Illegal Alien an "Undocumented Worker" is like calling a
Crack Dealer an "Unlicensed Pharmacist"
sned...@msn.com
> "rw" <rw56_to_the_ch...@earthlink.net> wrote
>
>
>
> > If you'd bought an Intel-based Mac (it would be more than $446) you'd be
> > able to run XP AND Vista, in addition to OS X, which is superior to both
> > of them.
>
> > Bundled software (Boot Camp) lets you boot into any of those OS. You could
> > also run Linux, and probably some other OS I'm not aware of.
>
> > With third-party virtualization software (Parallels or VMware Fusion)
> > you'd be able to run all of them at the same time.
>
> ... but, as mentioned, my shopping made it seem beyond my needs/means just
> to stick in the travel trailer
>
> eddakated at the fancy universery
> ....so I drive a '92 Dodge and buy used laptops
>
> ..... but a bit of a brag on the returns from my investment, the kid called
> this morning with the news that he was accepted into Phi Beta Kappa, not a
> huge deal, but they Have had a couple fairly accomplished members since
> 1776, so
> .... I be proud, ( and glad he takes after his mom, not his Okie bumpkin,
> dimly lit, old man )
Hey, it IS a big deal. Good going.
Dave
jc...@cs.nmsu.edu
> Larry L wrote:
> > ...besides Apple people always seem to be a bit weird :-)
>
My wife's MacBook looked nice and I was seriously contemplating a
switch (after all, it's Unix now), but she upgraded the OS (leopard-
>tiger or tiger->leopard or whatever), and now the machine is sucking
wind from the bloated software, and sometimes crashes. And her new map
software won't even recognize the GPS that's plugged in, despite
claims that the Mac does not need any special drivers. I don't
understand the mac geeks who think that Apple can do no wrong.
I'll stick to Linux. OpenSuse right now, but I'll probably switch to
Ubuntu this summer.
Jon.
PS: And the one-button thing STILL drives me crazy...users aren't that
dumb! They CAN intelligently use more than one button! (BTW, my wife
didn't want her free iPod when she got her Mac, so I've been playing
with it. The too-overloaded one button thing drives me crazy there,
too. Maybe its me who's wierd...)
notbob
> claims that the Mac does not need any special drivers. I don't
> understand the mac geeks who think that Apple can do no wrong.
After paying through the nose, they'll never 'fess to it.
> PS: And the one-button thing STILL drives me crazy...users aren't that
> dumb!
Apple: proof that ignorance is bliss
nb
Russell D.
Try www.opensuse.org . It may cure some of those ills. I have given
Ubuntu a try a couple of times. I have used Suse as my main operating
system for 5 years now and I found Ubuntu lacking.
YMMV of course.
Russell
Larry L
"jeff miller" <jmill...@suddenlink.net> wrote
>
> there is no better investment...
I was a reluctant father before becoming one ... overpopulation is a major
issue for me and has been since I was old enough to understand it, if not
contribute to it yet.
Now, I rank the experience with any I can even imagine ... but certainly
still think we all have to limit our production.
Being a late starter ( I was 39 when the kid arrived ) has allowed us
several advantages and we've worked hard at trying to provide opportunities.
My wife is the best mother I've ever seen in action, an artist at a
wonderful craft, a beautiful woman whose deepest beauty only became apparent
when her child arrived. My kid is 21 1/2 and it's been a little over 21
years since I had my last drink ... I was a flaming, drunk daily, alcoholic
back then .. when I realized I didn't want MY kid raised by one of those
...... he saved MY life, of that I am 100% certain.
Yes, parenting can be great but it can be tough, too.
For instance, apparently the ceremony to initiate him into pbk is something
parents are invited to and he wants us there. It's to be May 18th. My
wife already has airline tickets and Broadway tickets bought and paid for
and will be in NYC May 18th. I'M 'supposed' to be in Ashton, Id. fishing
the lower HFork on May 18th .... but I guess I'll be feeling uncomfortable,
a bumpkin out of place, at a stuffy ceremony over at University Of The
Pacific ... instead .... parenting is tough
Jeff, others,
Thanks
Tom Littleton
>but I guess I'll be feeling uncomfortable,
> a bumpkin out of place, at a stuffy ceremony over at University Of The
> Pacific ... instead .... parenting is tough
>
>
day will work out fine, and be a bit more memorable.
Tom
Larry L
"JT" <jeff_cu...@airjunky.com> wrote
>
> I would agree completely. I was going off Larry's first e-mail where he
> mentioned using it for e-mail and saving photos. Had he mentioned adding
> older software in the first post, I would have said no way.
>
I just went off to buy Rosetta Stone Spanish programs and noticed this
"
Current Rosetta Stone® products have been engineered to install and run on
the Windows Vista operating system. Some 3rd party components used in
Rosetta Stone products have not been certified by Microsoft as ‘Vista
Compliant’. Accordingly, you may encounter some Vista-related operating
issues. Rosetta Stone technical support may or may not be able to resolve
these Vista-related issues. Rosetta Stone hereby disclaims any
representations, warranties, guaranties and conditions with respect to the
compatibility of the Rosetta Stone products with the Windows Vista operating
systems"
So even though it's "engineered" for Vista, they don't expect it to work on
it !!
JT
Old or NEW software (that's even engineered for Vista)! It's nice they let
you know before you buy it!
So far Vista has worked okay for me, however it's pretty much only been used
for standard apps, email, ERP, & the Microsoft suite. Anything beyond that I
have seen, heard and experienced issues.
Someone mentioned Microsoft ME over Vista, no thanks. I hated MS ME.
JT