Economics of commercial fly tying
Vic Brockett
Interesting questions. I have tied flies for several years and have often
thought I knew the answers. Let's use a standard dry fly pattern, elk hair
caddis as an example. Assume you have an order for one dozen and the store
will give you $10/dozen. Uncle will want $1 for excise tax, hooks will
cost about .60, Hoffman hackle will approach $1, miscellaneous materials
maybe another .10. The remaining $7.30 will help you pay for your tools,
self employment tax, income tax, etc.
Say that you tie 5 hours a day and can average a fly every 2 1/2 minutes
counting coffee breaks, stretching exercises, potty breaks, etc. You have
tied 10 dozen and have grossed $100. You can do the math for weekly, etc.
I have heard of tyers doing 3,000 dozen/year but I have only reached
around 2,000 and won't do that again.
Usually, if you can tie fast enough, long enough--you might break even
while everyone else is on the river fishing.
All that said, if you can produce quality flies and find individuals or
stores who are willing to pay a premium price for good flies, you can earn
a fair income. But most of the people I know who tie commercially also
have an additional source of income--selling materials, videos, books, or
guiding--or a spouse with a good job--or are retired from another job.
JR wrote:
> Not that I'm thinking of doing it, but I found myself wondering the
> other day, while fishing:
>
> What kind of profit do independent (i.e., non-salaried) fly tyers make?
> How many flies do they tie per hour or day on average? (I know it
> depends of course on the type of flies they're tying.) What prices do
> they wholesale their flies for (to fly shops, retailers, etc.)? Is it
> possible for anyone in the U.S. to make a living at this, given the
> competition from countries with much lower labor costs?
--
Vic Brockett
Vic's Fly-By-Night
http://www.navicom.net/~vic
mailto:v...@navicom.net
JR
JR
>....(a very clear explanation of the $$$ of commercial fly tying)...
Vic,
Thanks. I can tie not 10 dozen but maybe 10 flies a day, mostly
scraggly, lopsided, ill-proportioned things. Amazing that any of them
will take a fish. Your summary increased my already considerable
respect for commercial fly tiers.
JR
--
reply to:
jtru...@ibm.net
or
jtru...@bendcable.com
hma...@troutflies.com
wrote:
The math will tell you , In round numbers, to make say 30K a year at
ten dollars a dozen which is expensive in the light of imports, you
would have to produce 4000 doz. This assumes a cost of goods at
2.50/doz.(low). This will vary and should be reflected in the sell
price.
2080 traditional working hours in a year 2080/4000 =1.92.. doz per
hour,or,one bug per 2.5 min. Sounds" doable" ? ...then sit and tye for
eight solid hours and then ask that same question. There are few
commercial tiers in the U.S. that do this and it's not the lack of
desire , it's just not profitable. If a tier could sell at 20.00(
retail) a dozen he could make a buck.
Harry
Mike Connor
Vic Brockett schrieb in Nachricht <36429F44...@navicom.net>...
Hi Vic,
An absolutely perfect analysis of the pitfalls of commercial tying. I agree
one hundred percent, ( minus tax ) !
I am amazed at the number of people who try it anyway, apparently without
knowing the math. One thing you forgot to mention is the amount of self
motivation required to keep on tying flies day in and day out without fail,
assuming you get the orders or have the outlets for them in the first place.
Unless you make a name for yourself pretty quickly ( allowing you to raise
prices ) you will probably have trouble even existing on the earnings from
fly-dressing. It is one thing to tie a couple of dozen flies for pocket
money, to subsidise materials, or even a couple of hundred, it is quite
another to do it for a living.
Tight lines !
Mike Connor
Ernie Harrison
--
Ernie Harrison
Fly Fishing Books, Blood Knot Machine
Wading Boots, Making Rods, Fly Tying Box
Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh
Mike Connor <MIKE-...@t-online.de> wrote in article
<721r42$eum$1...@news01.btx.dtag.de>...
f knapp
JR wrote in message <36432861...@bendcable.com>...
>Not that I'm thinking of doing it, but I found myself wondering the
>other day, while fishing:
>
>What kind of profit do independent (i.e., non-salaried) fly tyers make?
>How many flies do they tie per hour or day on average? (I know it
>depends of course on the type of flies they're tying.) What prices do
>they wholesale their flies for (to fly shops, retailers, etc.)? Is it
>possible for anyone in the U.S. to make a living at this, given the
>competition from countries with much lower labor costs?
It would be possible to make good money if you didn't pay 10% federal excise
tax for manufacture of fishing equipment, and 30% self employment tax.
Michael McGuire
: JR wrote in message <36432861...@bendcable.com>...
How does that excise tax work? Is it a retail sales tax, or does it bite every
time fishing tackle changes hands, wholesale and retail?
Mike
--
Michael McGuire Hewlett Packard Laboratories
email:xmcg...@xhpl.xhp.com P.0. Box 10490 (1501 Page Mill Rd.)
(remove x's from email if not Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971
a spammer)
Phone: (650)-857-5491
************BE SURE TO DOUBLE CLUTCH WHEN YOU PARADIGM SHIFT.**********
JR
about the economics of commercial fly tying. The responses were enough
to give anyone pause before trying to make a living at it. They also
increased my respect for those who do it. It's amazing that people who
work such long hours and so quickly can produce, as many of them do,
consistently high quality flies day in and day out.
Regards, JR
Al Beatty2
I've been a commercial tier for 40 plus years most of which was along with a
real job. I seldom tie a fly commercially I don't gross at least $20.00 per
hour. Even at that after considering expenses and FedExise Tax my average
adjusted gross income is about $15.00 per hour. Then consider medical insurance
and other benefit type thing and you get down to a net of $10.00 per hour. The
question you have to ask yourself is "Can you get along on that amount?" I can
because I have a retirement income to help. Tying for a living can be a tough
way to go. Good luck & ...
Tight Lines - Al Beatty
Whiting Farms - Hoffman Hackle
whit...@aol.com
albe...@aol.com
Al Beatty2
Gene Dobrzynski
Have tied on and off commercially for years. You are not going to get
rich but I was able to always trade my ties for new rods, reels or stuff I
really wanted but hated to pay the money for. I tie for some of the lodges
in Alaska and the biggest part of the market is in custom ties. You are
able to provide a fly that works for a certain area but not readily
available through catalogs or fly shops.
Gene
Al Beatty2
Federal Excise tax is paid on the first sale of some fishing equipment/flies.
Usually the first sale is from the manufacturer/tier at the wholesale level. If
a tier sells directly to the consumer at retail prices then the tax is paid on
the higher retail price.
FedEx is paid quarterly on IRS Form 720. Once you start reporting this tax you
must submit a form every quarter until you end your business. The form is
submitted even if you did not make any sales during said quarter. The IRS gets
kind of "nasty" if you don't report every quarter - I know, they discussed?! it
with me one time.
What do you have to pay FedEx on? The IRS advised me you pay on anything that
goes to the water or touches the fish as part of the regular function. EX: My
company manufacturers fly floatant and dubbing wax. You pay FedEx on the fly
floatant but not on the dubbing wax - the fly tied with the wax though is
subject to the tax. Sorry for getting so wordy.... Take care & ...
f knapp
Al, I wish I could gross $20.00 an hour tying :)
E- Mail sometime
Frank Knapp
>
Al Beatty2
Today Gretchen and I specialize and only tie parachute patterns. We sell
everything we can produce. Grossing $20.00 per hour only requires tying a dozen
and a half per hour. With the long Hoffman saddle hackle it makes this goal
fairly easy to reach. Take care & ...
AuSable1
In article <19981117110822...@ng-fq1.aol.com>, albe...@aol.com
(Al Beatty2) writes:
>
>Hi Frank,
>
>Today Gretchen and I specialize and only tie parachute patterns. We sell
>everything we can produce. Grossing $20.00 per hour only requires tying a
>dozen
>and a half per hour. With the long Hoffman saddle hackle it makes this goal
>fairly easy to reach. Take care & ...
>
>Tight Lines - Al Beatty
You group,
Last year I tied about 1000dz bugs. I am to the point where like Al and
Gretchen the hackled flies that I tie are wrapped with Hoffman SS. For a
while I felt I had to take the bad (slow expensive patterns) with the good.
Not any more! You need to be an exceptional tier, producing bugs that are all
clones (all look alike), look good in the hand, are durable and of course catch
fish. I think that durability is very important. If you can take a little
more time per bug or use a better grade of materials to create a more durable
pattern you will have it over many tiers. In many cases the better bug will
sell more of your flies. Speed is certainly part of the commercial tying
eqation, but if you sacrifice durability and proportion (usually the first two
things to go when power tying) you loose it all. Then you become just another
bug tier, and there are thousands.
Yippee Tie One On!
AuSable1, Dennis Potter
Jim Mcgrath
I guide in Alaska for four months each year and tie around 450
doz flies in the off season. Most years I'll do about twenty different
patterns in a few different sizes.
Like Dennis memtioned speed is not the only, or the major
componant of commercial tying. When folks watch me tie they're often
surprised that my hands aren't flying around at warp speed, but
instead I tie a lot like they do. I'll second the recommendation for
the Hoffman Saddles. If you can tie a fly (or several) with on feather
it makes a hell of a difference. If I can't tie with a AHoffman saddle
then I want one of their necks. I can't understand why anyone uses
anything else for their dries.
Jim McGrath
Ernie Harrison
I am not a commercial tier, but have recognized the beauty and value of
Hoffman Hackles since they came on the market. I bought a AAA grade
grizzly saddle in the early years when they were $15. II finally used it
up I bought another one for $30. After that one was gone I thought they
were getting too expensive, but my son bought me one for $60. I still have
most of that one.
--
Ernie Harrison
Fly Fishing Books, Blood Knot Machine
Wading Boots, Fly Rods, Fly Tying Box
Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh
--
Ernie Harrison
Fly Fishing Books, Blood Knot Machine
Wading Boots, Making Rods, Fly Tying Box
Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh
Jim Mcgrath <jmcg...@roanoke.infi.net> wrote in article
<365c14e0...@news.roanoke.infi.net>...