why would anyone bother with a baitcasting reel for freshwater ?
duty-honor-country
with ANY bait casting reel, and the fact your thumb must ride the spool
at all times to (try to) prevent it- why would anyone bother even using
a bait casting reel for fresh water fishing ? I can see the cranking
advantage to a bait caster, for hauling in huge fish, and dragging
lures through weeds, etc.. But in my actual experience, the bait
casters can't cast as far, and not as accurately, as a cheap open face
spinning reel or even a spincasting reel.
When I go fishing, I want to fish, not untangle the reel ever 4th cast.
Are the 5-ball bearing bait casters so much better they don't tangle,
over a single-ball bearing bait caster ? Common sense tells me no.
These bait casters seem at best something to use, to toss bait a few
feet from the boat, then troll in the ocean or large lakes for huge
fish- NOT for casting with precision and distance. I can cast hundreds
of feet with my spinning reel- and hardly 100 feet with a bait caster
with a lug nut attached for weight.
I'm getting the notion the reel industry is doing a lot of bs-ing to
sell bait casters.
skeptic bordering on cynic...
Carlos
Sometime watch, really watch guys on tv casting. Or even better, go to
a wintertime fishing show where a big name angler is tossing a jig into
a cup 50-80 feet away and never missing. Doing it while not making a
lot of noise. Just laying it in there.
Baitcasters are far more useful, and accurate than you give them credit
for. They take practice. Anything worthwhile does.
Carlos
duty-honor-country
let me elaborate:
I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more
accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect. I can put 6
pound test on an open face and cast 200 feet with ease. And I can put
10 pound test on it and haul in huge bass. And I've fished small
streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far
more precision than any baitcaster can give- and would leave a
baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle.
The only useful purpose I can see for a baitcaster, is fishing from a
boat on large lakes and ocean, where the bait it tossed a few feet from
the boat, and then trolled- and the fish are huge over 15 pounds.
Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an
oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets
tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need
to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash. They don't cast bait for
crap ! The fisherman would be better off attaching the heavy lure or
bait, and throwing it with his pitching arm where he wants it, then
using the reel to retrieve the fish. And I say that only half kidding,
because he'd have no backlash tangles then.
Charles B. Summers
"duty-honor-country" <winches...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154956106....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I've been fishing for 37 years now,
> Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an
duty-honor-country
I just used a brand new one for the last 2 days. Caught 12 fish with
it. Fished the local pond and lake.
Bob La Londe
news:VNOdnfytgJGn3ErZ...@comcast.com...
I'm a long time spinning reel advocate. In fact I think if a person were
restricted to one rod for all kinds of fishing I'ld have to go with the with
a medium power fast action spinning rod, but don't soft sell the baitcasters
of today. With internal breaking controls, spool tension adjustment and
high quality bearings a highly skilled angler can cast pretty far with
incredible accuracy. In fact to such a point that they will malign the
accuracy of spinning tackle. Those of us who grew up casting light lures
while skulking through brush choked banks to get to our fishing holes know
that you can just as accurately with spinning tackle,
Where a baitcaster really shines though is in short and medium range
accuracy. The thumb on the spool allows an angler a great deal of speed and
distance control when pitching. I'm not talking about fdropping it over the
side of the boat, but pitching to targets from 20 to maybe a 80 feet away
from the boat. With a little practice you can even control travel to make a
bait go around a target like to drop behind a stump.
On the flip side, if you are comparing a Daiwa Tournament 1600 spinning reel
to a Penn Jig master you are looking at the wrong thing. I actually can
pitch with a Penn Jig Master, but with only a spool tension control it is
not. Try comparing instead to a properly adjust Quantum Accurist, Browning
Citori, or Shimano Curado.
And don't get all on about cheap spinning reels either. I have probably
owned more than 100 of them over the years, and a cheap spinning reel has
just as many problems as a cheap any other kind of reel. They aren't the
same problems, but they are problems just the same.
Quality products usually start at a little more money. Cheap spinning reels
simple don't hold up as well as more expensive ones. I happen to really
like the Daiwa 1600 Tournament reels, and the Shimano Symetre is in about
the same class. The cheaper Mitchel 300X and 308X fishes very well, but it
has a handle design problem that causes it to loosen up if not checked
constantly. To be fair, the one cheap baitcaster I bought didn't hold up
any better.
Anyway, to say baitcasters are junk or can't cast is an gross overstatement.
To say spinning reels are easier to use with less experience is probably
more accurate. To say one or the other is more accurate is just plain
silly. I do believe that at short and medium range a skilled angler can use
a bait caster with slightly better accuracy, but a spinning reel in the
hands of a skilled angler would not be far behind.
To say one can cast further than the other isn't necessarily true either. I
fished once with a guy named Simon Apodaka who was able to casta 3/4 oz
rattle trap on his baitcasting tackle further than I could cast a 3/4
Kastmaster spoon. The fact that Simon is a custom rod builder who has a
special purpose rod for every lure in his bag might have had some bearing on
the end results, but the fact is that both of our baits traveled so far that
we could only see them from the sun glinting off the shiny sides.
I have to admit that with very light baits like small spinners, tiny spoons,
and some weightless worms a spinning rod seems to cast slightly further. I
also think that fishing in windy conditions a spinning rig will cast
slightly better into the wind with most baits, but there are guys who can do
it well with baitcasters. Hammer (Kwame Kuanda) and I fished a November
tournament where we were slinging spinner baits into the teeth of a 25-35
mph blow. He was casting a 1/2 oz bait and I was throwing a 3/8 oz SWL
spinner bait. Yes he had to pick out a backlash or two, but I had to deal
with more looping line sailing up and away from the rod and reel before I
could make contact with the bait on the retrieve. Was one better than the
other? I don't think so. I caught the bigger fish, and a few more of them,
but we both caught good fish and we took second that day. The amazing thing
though was that he was consistantly casting about 25 to 30 feet further than
I was. That's about the same as if we were casting the different size baits
on identical tackle. No I doubt I could do that with baitcasting tackle. I
certainly couldn't back then, but it demonstrates the point that baitcasting
tackle can get very close to the same distance casting in adverse conditions
in the hands of a skilled angler. Just like spinning tackle can be quite
accurate in the hands of somebody who knows how to use it.
--
Bob La Londe
Fishing Arizona & The Colorado River
Fishing Forums & Contests
http://www.YumaBassMan.com
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
duty-honor-country
You'll never have a backlash problem with a spinning reel. You may
pull a few tangles out on a newly filled reel, but that will be it.
You will have much more tangles with a baitcaster than a spinning rod.
And all of a sudden, the "farther" argument for casting with
baitcasters has disappeared. I've used a lot of reels in my lifetime
too. Skilled angler doesn't equate to skilled baitcaster. Unless
you're hauling up 15 lb. fish every time, baitcasters are an exercise
in futility. It's akin to using a Sherman tank to go plinking cans-
and having to maintain the tank to do it.
duty-honor-country
ps- my spinning reel is a Shimano 4000 that handles up to 12 lb. line.
I see absolutely no advantage to a baitcaster using 12 pound line in
comparison, and a lot of aggravation from backlash tangles with the
latter. There would have to be a pressing need for hauling in 15+ lb.
fish on a regular basis, to make a baitcaster worthwhile, such as an
entry level baitcaster that handles 20 pound line. Where's the
advantage to a reel, that you have to monitor with thumb pressure to
prevent backlashes- to catch sub-12 lb. fish ? The spinning
rod/reel combo I have now handles 3/4 oz. lures without problem.
One can buy about 5 entry-level spinning reels for the price of one
good baitcaster. Suffice to say, those 5 reels would last a long, long
time overall.
I have had cheap spinning reels fall apart eventually- from heavy use,
dirt, falling in the water, lack of oiling- but it took 20 years of
such abuse to destroy them. And all the while, they casted further
and easier, with less tangles, than a baitcaster would.
There simply is not a lot of places to fish, where you catch 5 bass all
over 10 pounds in one day. That's the exception, not the rule. That's
TV tourney fishing- not everyday real world.
Todd Copeland
news:1154956106....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Accuracy and the ability to control the entry of a bait into the water.
> >
> > Sometime watch, really watch guys on tv casting. Or even better, go to
> > a wintertime fishing show where a big name angler is tossing a jig into
> > a cup 50-80 feet away and never missing. Doing it while not making a
> > lot of noise. Just laying it in there.
> >
> > Baitcasters are far more useful, and accurate than you give them credit
> > for. They take practice. Anything worthwhile does.
> I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more
> accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect. I can put 6
> pound test on an open face and cast 200 feet with ease. And I can put
> 10 pound test on it and haul in huge bass. And I've fished small
> streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far
> more precision than any baitcaster can give- and would leave a
> baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle.
Caros mentioned that baitcasters were more _accurate", not that they could
throw a lure further as you keep mentioning. Spinning reels _are_ good for
distance and for using light lures. But baitcaster win hands down for
accuracy.
There are very few times (really none) that anyone should want to throw a
lure 100-200 feet (by the way, the over-hand throw on a 200 foot cast has
_got_ to be scary!)
You mentioned backlashes on a baitcaster and that you've been fishing for 37
years. If you're getting backlashes then you've not fished long enough with
a baitcast to appreciate how well it does. I've been fishing, steady, for
about 10 years and use baitcasters 80% of the time. Out of the past
thousands of casts I'd say I've only had backlash once... and it only took 5
seconds to clear. The only way to control the line on a spinning reel is to
apply slight pressure against the line with your finger once each time the
line wraps around the spool. As you mentioned, on a baitcaster you just need
to drag your thumb across the spool as the line is going out.
From your posts it really seems like you are no open to accept the fact that
baitcasters _are_ more accurate then spinning reels. If they were not, why
do all professional bass fisherman use them 80%-90% of the time? I guess
they _all_ could be wrong about the subject.
Something you don't mention is what _kind_ of bass fishing you do. If you
just need to throw a shiner out into the middle of the lake, then a spinning
reel would work best for your needs. But if you want to throw that plastic
worm or spinning lure right into that 6"x6" hole of lily pads four or five
times, then you might want to consider practicing with a baitcaster.
Dan, danl, Redbeard uh Greybeard now
<winches...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Snip<<<
>ps- my spinning reel is a Shimano 4000 that handles up to 12 lb. line.
>I see absolutely no advantage to a baitcaster using 12 pound line in
>comparison, and a lot of aggravation from backlash tangles with the
>latter. There would have to be a pressing need for hauling in 15+ lb.
>fish on a regular basis, to make a baitcaster worthwhile, such as an
>entry level baitcaster that handles 20 pound line. Where's the
>advantage to a reel, that you have to monitor with thumb pressure to
>prevent backlashes- to catch sub-12 lb. fish ? The spinning
>rod/reel combo I have now handles 3/4 oz. lures without problem.
>
>One can buy about 5 entry-level spinning reels for the price of one
>good baitcaster. Suffice to say, those 5 reels would last a long, long
>time overall.
>
>I have had cheap spinning reels fall apart eventually- from heavy use,
>dirt, falling in the water, lack of oiling- but it took 20 years of
>such abuse to destroy them. And all the while, they casted further
>and easier, with less tangles, than a baitcaster would.
>
>There simply is not a lot of places to fish, where you catch 5 bass all
>over 10 pounds in one day. That's the exception, not the rule. That's
>TV tourney fishing- not everyday real world.
Two things come to mind after reading your posts.
One, someone embarressed the living daylites out of you because of
your inability to master a modern baitcaster in two days time.
This could be caused by several things. You might be unable to afford
the $125 to 200 for a quality baitcaster. You might be unable to ask
someone for instruction in the proper use of a baitcaster. You might
be physically unable to control a baitcaster. Oh the list could go on
and on.
Two, from your rantings I would place you in the troll catigory...The
real poor skills, semi-intelegent dweeb type troll. I do not have to
put forth anything more than your rantings to prove this point, you
have done all the work for me.
Now, if you really want to know how to use a baitcaster properly, take
your attitude and shove it. Come back in a week or so and apologize
for your uncalled for behaviour and ask for advice on how to use the
specific brand baitcaster you failed to master.
I am sure someone here will be willing to help you out.
If not, it's your loss not mine.
PLONKED the troll!
Ken Fortenberry
> "duty-honor-country" wrote:
>> Snip<<<
>> ps- my spinning reel is a Shimano 4000 that handles up to 12 lb. line.
>> I see absolutely no advantage to a baitcaster using 12 pound line in
>> comparison, and a lot of aggravation from backlash tangles with the
>
> <snip>
> real poor skills, semi-intelegent dweeb type troll. I do not have to
> put forth anything more than your rantings to prove this point, you
Damn man, that's harsh. Mr. d-h-c sounds to me like an
opinionated old cuss looking for an argument. Kinda like
a lot of fishermen I know. Usenet isn't very conducive to
the kind of arguments that would seem perfectly OK when
seated next to someone at the bar quaffing a brew. I'm
willing to give Mr. d-h-c the benefit of the doubt and
if I disagreed with him I'd argue it with him with a good
nature and my tongue in cheek. But I tried to cast with my
Dad's old Ambasseuder 5000 and never could get the hang of
the damn thing, so I basically agree with Mr. d-h-c. 1/2 :-)
--
Ken Fortenberry
Bob La Londe
news:sxJBg.3843$kO3....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Never had a 5000, but we had a bunch of 5000D models for catfishing and they
were great. They could crank a catfish out of hole like a Warn winch
pulling a Volkswagon out of a ditch. We could also cast them pretty
accurately for distance when we took the time to adjust them for the weight
of the lure used. I bet I could even pitch with one, but I'm not sure why I
would want to. The size is the big hold up on that reel. Give me a low
profile baitcasting reel anyday of the week for that.
For the overhand guys... you can snap cast with a spinning rig too. You are
not limited to big overhand casts. I side armed and did a variation of a
circle cast with a spinning rod that I taught myself as a kid. It was the
only way to get that precise placement I needed to drop spinners and spoons
along weed edges when I was walking the Gila River.
--
Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com
>
> --
> Ken Fortenberry
Gary Udstrand
> You'll never have a backlash problem with a spinning reel. You may
> pull a few tangles out on a newly filled reel, but that will be it.
> You will have much more tangles with a baitcaster than a spinning rod.
> And all of a sudden, the "farther" argument for casting with
> baitcasters has disappeared. I've used a lot of reels in my lifetime
> too. Skilled angler doesn't equate to skilled baitcaster. Unless
> you're hauling up 15 lb. fish every time, baitcasters are an exercise
> in futility. It's akin to using a Sherman tank to go plinking cans-
> and having to maintain the tank to do it.
Why do you care what people use? If they enjoy using a baitcaster then
more power to them.
--
-Gary
WARREN WOLK
WW
"duty-honor-country" <winches...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154952757....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
WARREN WOLK
tangles you picked out. I think I had a backlash, o maybe 1500 casts or so
ago...
Warren
"duty-honor-country" <winches...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154960296.1...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Charles B. Summers
news:7oled2hvd5ho1jj7m...@4ax.com...
> Two, from your rantings I would place you in the troll catigory...
I stopped just shy of calling this guy a troll.... but that doesn't mean
that I don't agree with you.
WARREN WOLK
Hundreds of feet, lmao...
Warren
"Todd Copeland" <to...@copelandhome.net> wrote in message
news:oOIBg.1061$Qf....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Ken Fortenberry
> "Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
>> ... But I tried to cast with my
>> Dad's old Ambasseuder 5000 and never could get the hang of
>> the damn thing, so I basically agree with Mr. d-h-c. 1/2 :-)
>
> Never had a 5000, but we had a bunch of 5000D models for catfishing and they
> were great. They could crank a catfish out of hole like a Warn winch
Funny, I compare it to a winch too but in a disparaging way.
I just don't see the challenge in catching a 10 pound fish
on 20 lb. test. Hell, you watch some of the stuff on the TV
and those guys may as well just push a button. Fish on, zip,
fish in the boat. Phooey on that. A challenge is catching a
15 pound fish on 4X 6.4 lb. test. And I'm not talkin' about
using 4X just to make a game of it, I'm talking about fishing
for Michigan steelhead using a size 14 black stonefly nymph
where that's the biggest fly that will work and 4X is the
thickest piece of nylon that will fit through the eye of the
hook. Now *that's* a challenge, and a workout for the drag
on your fly reel, and a test of your skill in applying just
the right amount of pressure with the fly rod.
--
Ken Fortenberry - not trolling ... well, not too much ;-)
duty-honor-country
WARREN WOLK wrote:
> Amazing you had time to haul in 12 fish, considering all the backlashes &
> tangles you picked out.
I fished for 9 hours over those 2 days. Spent 6 hours in the boat
yesterday.
Not only did I untangle the reel a zillion times- I'm now on my 3rd
respool of line. It does get better as line size increases- things
are noticeably better now with 15 lb. test on it. Previous 10 & 12 lb
test was a nightmare of sorts.
I think I had a backlash, o maybe 1500 casts or so
> ago...
>
> Warren
sure you did....
duty-honor-country
thanks !!
not opinionated, just scratching my head and wondering "where's the
beef" with this contraption.
FWIW, I could buy the best rod and reel made on the planet today- and
it would be like pocket change to me. But I have a funny feeling it
would give only slightly better results. These baitcasters obviously
need very heavy lures and line to make them cast with minimal hassle.
I just don't see the advantage in a lake where the biggest fish is a 6
or 8 pound bass. My spinning reel will take that no problem.
duty-honor-country
exactly !! Fish a small stream in the thick woods and brush- you can
forget overhead casting- it's all sidearm, and pulling loose line out
to toss. good post
duty-honor-country
You bring up valid points- but to repeat what a previous poster gleaned
from my posts- why use 20 pound test and a heavy lure, to catch an 8
pound fish ? And the added headaches of a baitcaster added to it. It
seems that same lure could be presented with a stout open faced reel
and rod, and horsed in just as easily.
They use open faced reels for deep sea fishing too- so obviously the
new ones have the gusto to horse a big fish in as well. Correct ?
Keep in mind professional bass fishermen get a lot of sponsor money.
I've yet to try to make a cast that I could not make with a spinning
reel. Where's the accuracy problem ? I've fished streams where the
target area is 2 feet square- and anywhere else is a snag and lost
hook/bait. If that's not an accuracy challenge, what is ?
I agree that for pulling a lure through lilly pads and stumps, a
baitcaster has the leverage advantage. But what average guy would fish
that area, every time ? Sooner or later, one tires of the obstacles
and snags. You may not break the line, but you may have to go up and
unsnag it often.
If there was a place where all of the fish caught were over 10 pounds,
sure I'd use a bait caster. But the baitcaster aura is reminding me of
a street car with a 6-71 supercharger sticking through the hood, that
can't get out of it's own way.
duty-honor-country
Who are you trying to kid ? Now all of a sudden, a spinning rod can't
cast 200 feet ? Wake up and smell the coffee.
Put a full spool light line on a good long spinning rod, with a heavy
bottom weight- and try it one time. 200 feet casts no problem.
Want to go that far heavier line, you say ?? just add weight and keep
the spool topped off.
SimRacer
> question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
> with ANY bait casting reel, and the fact your thumb must ride the spool
> at all times to (try to) prevent it- why would anyone bother even using
> a bait casting reel for fresh water fishing ? I can see the cranking
> advantage to a bait caster, for hauling in huge fish, and dragging
> lures through weeds, etc.. But in my actual experience, the bait
> casters can't cast as far, and not as accurately, as a cheap open face
> spinning reel or even a spincasting reel.
Short answer: They do work, if you learn how to use them. Open-faced
spinning real more accurate than baitcasters? Not in the hands of an
experinced baitcaster user. I bet you don't sit a 5 gallon pale out in the
yard and practice casting to it at all, with any reel, do you? If not, you
are not the target market for baitcasters. Your methods are too casual, you
don't want to practice you just want to fish. Be that the case, then sure,
stick with spinning reels and closed spinning reels like the Zebco 33.
I live and die by the baitcaster, they outnumber the spinning reels on my
boat 6-2. And I keep those 2 spinning reels on there for 2-3 purposes:
Certain extra-light weight baits that I use, very windy conditions, and for
times when non-experienced anglers are going to be on-board and in need of
fishing rods.
And your technique needs some help. You aren't required to keep your thumb
on the spool all the time. You won't get any distance with that much
friction on the spool. The key to casting a baitcaster, consistently and
without hassle IMO, is your casting technique. That's what ultimately sets
and controls the bait's speed, which is what is the root of most overruns.
Too much bait speed at the get-go. Think of it in gun-like terms, you don't
necessarily want a really high muzzle velocity, but you do want a nice
consistent down-range velocity after the launch. A lot of this comes from
the casting wrist & arm, not the casting thumb.
>
> When I go fishing, I want to fish, not untangle the reel ever 4th cast.
Again, it takes practice. You get a backlash every 4 casts, I get one every
4-5 trips, usually when I tried to skip a bait under a distant dock and hit
the dock by mistake. Of course, I have fished baitcasters since I was 8-9
years old (and am currently pushing 40), and I tune mine up each season, and
spend hours in the yard casting to small pales, at different distances, and
don't stop "tuning" my reels until I can use the bait I want, and hit the
pales dead center, 9 out of every 10 casts, using whatever cast I want to
practice: overhead, sidearm (fore and backhand), flipping and pitching.
> Are the 5-ball bearing bait casters so much better they don't tangle,
> over a single-ball bearing bait caster ? Common sense tells me no.
Experience tells me yes. You have to tune a baitcaster to your casting
habits (do you wrist or arm cast? what are your magnet settings, reel/spool
tension, line type and weight?), and extra bearings in a baitcaster make it
more smooth, easier to tune, and way easier to cast accurately once you have
it tuned to your tendencies, bait choices, and weather conditions.
>
> These bait casters seem at best something to use, to toss bait a few
> feet from the boat, then troll in the ocean or large lakes for huge
> fish- NOT for casting with precision and distance. I can cast hundreds
> of feet with my spinning reel- and hardly 100 feet with a bait caster
> with a lug nut attached for weight.
This tells me that you haven't given a baitcaster a fair chance. I
personally, don't tune my baitcasters with lug nuts. And IMO, not many
freshwater sized baitcasters are even setup for the 2-4 ounces that a
typical lug nut surely weighs. Penn Senator salt water baitcasters? Maybe. I
have fished 32 oz Mojos off those for striped bass....
>
> I'm getting the notion the reel industry is doing a lot of bs-ing to
> sell bait casters.
>
No, they market harder to use and control reels to fisherman that want the
most accuracy that they can achieve with them with a little practice.
Do you golf at all? How well do you golf without practicing with your
current clubs? Fishing is the same way when it comes to equipment above the
entry level stuff. Based on your post, I'd say if you DO golf, that you do
it with off-the-shelf equipment, that wasn't "fitted" to you and you wonder
why you can't get rid of that slice, right? Go get your clubs bent to fit
your height and stance and arm length and I promise you'll shave 5 strokes
off your next round.....Put in some practice with a baitcaster - and get it
tuned to your style - and you'll wonder how you ever lived without them.
> skeptic bordering on cynic...
RichZ
> question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
> with ANY bait casting reel,
You are blaming your own shortcomings on the hardware. Sad.
Alwaysfishking
DHC wrote-->
> FWIW, I could buy the best rod and reel made on the planet today- and
> it would be like pocket change to me. But I have a funny feeling it
> would give only slightly better results. These baitcasters obviously
> need very heavy lures and line to make them cast with minimal hassle.
> I just don't see the advantage in a lake where the biggest fish is a 6
> or 8 pound bass. My spinning reel will take that no problem.
. Hookesets are better IMO, accuracy and distance all improve when I'm using
a baitcaster. I also think I can work baits better with a baitcaster. I can
put baits in places that I'm unable to do with a spinning set up, and
backlash's are limited when you learn to use the tools properly. JMO
fish...@gmail.com
I tried to learn to use a baitcaster but spent too much time unraveling
the rats nest tangles in the reel. I use a spinning reel on a medium
action rod for virtually everything I fish for.
duty-honor-country
thanks for the honest, non-flame answer. We just came back today from
another hour and a half fishing nearby, using the baitcasting reel. I
did notice that hits are easier to detect for some reason with it. I
now have 15 lb. test on it and caught 8 panfish just now, using
nightwalkers and a bottom weight. There's a few large catfish there
that we can see, but could not hook one. Released all the fish- the
casting is getting better and further. For comparison I brought along
my spinning rig with a wooden plug- still able to cast much further
with the spinning reel and more accurately.
duty-honor-country
you are blaming another person for your hardware preferences- that's
what's even sadder.
duty-honor-country
If you think about it, it's actually common sense. A baitcaster reel
has more internal friction than a spinning reel. The spool must turn
for the baitcaster reel to cast- while with a spinning reel, the line
itself only has to come out. So logic dictates, a spinning reel will
cast further with the same weight lure and same weight line and same
length/action stiffness rod. I've also noticed, that a baitcaster
needs more casting energy into the cast, to get an equal distance. And
it needs a heavier weight lure to make it cast correctly. Try casting
half a nightwalker on a #8 hook, using 4 lb. test on a baitcaster. NO
DICE, right ?? The line will bury inside the spool. I tried backing
it down to only 8 lb. test and it buried the line in the spool, test
casting and retrieving. So light line and baits are out of the
question with a bait caster.
Bottom line- equal casting force, lure weight, line weight, rod length-
the baitcaster having more internal friction, is not going to cast as
far. And it will require more force to get even equal distance at
short/medium distances to a spinning reel. Another thing I noticed
right off, the more you try to force a long cast from a baitcaster, the
better the chances of it backlashing. Putting more force to get
distance from the baitcaster, means the spool must rotate faster-
increasing the chance of a tangle. The spool can only travel so fast
before it backlashes. Beyond a certain point, increase the spool speed
during a cast, KBANG- tangle.
To get it to work right today, I tightened up the spool tension quite a
bit, and used a very heavy bottom weight, and 15 lb. test- and that
helped a lot- but it still lacks spinning rod performance. What it
does have, is 15 pound test and great ability to crank back in.
Like I said before, it's a winch. Winches are made to crank in- not go
out fast.
Thundercat
<winches...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Who are you trying to kid ? Now all of a sudden, a spinning rod can't
>cast 200 feet ? Wake up and smell the coffee.
>
>Put a full spool light line on a good long spinning rod, with a heavy
>bottom weight- and try it one time. 200 feet casts no problem.
>
>Want to go that far heavier line, you say ?? just add weight and keep
>the spool topped off.
Lets battle! I'll grab my Scorpion spooled w/ 20lb PowerPro, you get
your contraption and I'll trip trap to whatever bridge you live under
and we can go at it with nice simple 5" Senkos for distance. Accuracy
count yes or no?
.
Harry J aka Thundercat
Share the knowledge, compete on execution...
http://www.brooklynbillstackleshop.com
http://secretweaponlures.com
RichZ
??? I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I didn't comment on your
preference for spinning tackle, just your insistence that backlashes and
tangles are unavoidable and 'incessant' with casting tackle -- a
position that just isn't accurate. You seem to think it is, which
reflects only on your your abilities with the tackle, not on the design
of the tackle itself.
There is no denying that casting tackle requires a more skilled and
practiced hand to cast. The lighter the weight being cast, the broader
the gap in how much skill is needed to do it with casting tackle rather
than spinning gear. You apparently haven't developed that skill, and
are blaming the tackle. Then again, you might be trying to learn with a
piece of junk, and it really IS the tackle.
I prefer spinning tackle for any application in which I use 6 lb test or
lower. Since drop shotting is among my favorite techniques, and I pretty
much wrote the book (or at least the article in In-Fisherman magazine
years ago) on light tackle jig & worm fishing, most days I use spinning
gear as much as, or more than casting tackle. But as soon as I go
heavier than that, casting gear gets the nod. It's more comfortable, and
in sizes suitable for handling heavy line, much lighter.
Also, in pure mechanical engineering terms, a casting reel is a more
elegant and efficient machine for retrieving the line. Spinning gear
takes the line around an awkward right angle turn on the retrieve, and
that turn puts pressure at a right angle to the bearing on which the
rotor rotates, trying to cock the rotor whenever it is pulling weight
around that awful corner. Further, the spinning reel asks you to set
into motion a large rotor and bail, instead of a comparatively small
spool to wind the line. The rotor/roller/bail assembly is an out of
balance, rotating mass -- something they taught us to avoid when I
studied mechanical design. If it wasn't such a good design for a reel's
other function (paying out line) it would be tough to even justify the
existence of a spinning reel. But because it does such a good job with
that half of its responsibilities -- particularly when light line and
light weights are involved -- I find it to be worth putting up with its
poor design for the other half of its job, but only in specific
circumstances.
I really don't care what kind of tackle you or anyone else prefers. I
know lots of anglers who don't have the ambition, dexterity or resolve
to learn to use a bait casting reel with any amount of confidence and
grace. I happily share my boat with several 'spinning gear only'
anglers. I'd much rather they concentrate on the important parts of
fishing -- finding fish and forcing them or tricking them into biting
something artificial -- than on trying to master tackle that they're
uncomfortable with for no reason other than that's what some pro uses.
As long as they're not doing something dumb like trying to fish in heavy
cover with 6 or 8 pound test because that's all that really fishes well
on their light spinning gear, more power to them. And to you.
duty-honor-country
I'll put 2 pound test on my Shimano spinning reel, with an ounce
weight- and you'll be waiting for minutes for it to land- and using
binoculars to see where it landed.
duty-honor-country
whoa- are you saying you can use 8 and 10 pound line on a baitcasting
reel ? I disagree- not very reliably !! Set the hook hard with 8
pound test on a baitcaster, and it's going to bury the line into the
spool ! Those baitcasting rigs don't even get near reliable unless
used with 14-15 pound test. Those bass pros aren't using 8 pound test
on baitcasters, that's for sure- it would be a recipe for disaster.
yes, a casting reel is more elegant- for cranking the line in- but not
for casting- and only good IF you use thick line ! that inherently
means shorter casts- because heavier line going out, has more
resistance in the rod eyes.
bass pros use 14-17 lb. test line- but the bass they are catching are
always somewhat smaller than that in weight. So what we have is,
chunking up line size used to drag through weeds and obstacles, and
keep the reel from backlashing on casts- not to drag in 15 lb. fish.
again- if you used the same rod, weight, and line- only difference
being the reel type, spinning vs. baitcasting- the spinning reel is
inherently going to cast further. It doesn't have a spool that's
turning, creating friction, to cast out. And it doesn't have a thumb
on it either, slowing it down, to prevent a backlash.
otherwise, try casting with no thumb control with a baitcaster. BANG-
backlash city. The fisherman HAS TO slow the spool down with his
thumb, or it backlashes- that in itself shortens the cast. It's either
slow it down with your thumb, or tighten up the spool clutch tension.
I've found a tighter clutch tension allows me to keep my thumb off the
spool until the end of the cast. Loosening it up to get distance, it
quickly over-runs without constant thumb braking. I'd rather let the
reel clutch do the braking, and my thumb just end the cast and drop the
bait in the water.
Al J
winches...@hotmail.com says...
I use 10 lb. Berkley Sensation, about the same diameter as normal 8 lb.
mono, on a Shimano Calcutta 150A(a round reel of appropriate size for
that line), with a 6'6" St Croix medium fast action rod and haven't had
a real birds nest type backlash for at least 2 or 3 years I.e. many
thousands of casts. About the worst I get is a few loose coils of line
around the spool at the very end of the cast, easily fixed by pulling
off a foot or two of line. I throw everything from 1/4 oz. Spinnerbaits
for rock bass to much heavier Rattletraps, to much larger in-line
spinners and even Cleo spoons. When a 40"+ Northern dives under the boat
or a spring Coho takes off, having a 'winch' sure comes in handy. The
Calcutta is a no-nonsense reel without the hype, for example what's the
point of an aluminum frame if the side plates or bearing keepers are
plastic? I avoid backlashes by what some would call abuse - I turn the
crank to engage the reel just as the lure hits the water! This technique
turned my old Citica to junk after only a few years, but the Calcutta's
seem to be able to do this just fine - mine's 6 years old and will
probably go 6 more. True it won't cast an 1/8 oz. Rapalla or jig, but
it's not designed to. The Citica will be replaced by Calcutta 200B.
I must be a Klutz, because I have a lot more problems with spinning gear
(a 7' Shimano Compre with a Symetre reel), usually in the form of a
dozen or more coils of line all coming off at once and trying to go
through the first rod guide together. The abrupt halt sometimes snaps
the line, the lure keeps on going, the coils end up on the floor of the
boat and unless I have a spare spool that rig is done for the day. This
usually happens if I try to cast just a bit farther to that special spot
where morning bass are hitting on the surface right about sun-up, or
with a heavier lure than the outfit is designed for.
Regarding distance, it depends. With a lot of lures like smaller spinner
baits, many plastics, or floating Rapallas, the limiting factors are
weight, the rod, and especially wind resistance - it's like a major
league pitcher throwing a wiffle ball, it's only going to go so far and
so fast. A Rattletrap or Cleo spoon may go a few feet farther on the
spinning rig, but with either rig and those lures really long casts
aren't really an issue.
For shore fishing I'd probably choose spinning gear, but from a boat I
use baitcasters a whole lot more than spinning, but I wouldn't swear off
one or the other. I especially like the balance and feel of spinning
gear for vertical jigging.
IMO tournament anglers use heavier gear to avoid loosing fish and to get
them into the boat fast. They wouldn't be using baitcasters if they
spent all their time dealing with backlashes. I fish multi-species for
fun at least twice a week, weather permitting and baitcasters work just
fine with lighter lines down to 8 lb. provided the reel is appropriately
sized. IMO, narrow spools, such as the Shimano 100 series reels are much
better for this than the wider spool 200 series low profile reels.
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
"duty-honor-country" <winches...@hotmail.com> wrote in message <SNIP>
> You bring up valid points- but to repeat what a previous poster gleaned
> from my posts- why use 20 pound test and a heavy lure, to catch an 8
> pound fish ? And the added headaches of a baitcaster added to it. It
> seems that same lure could be presented with a stout open faced reel
> and rod, and horsed in just as easily.
***Why use 20 pound and a heavy lure to catch an 8 pound fish? Because that
is many times the right tools for the job. If you were taught how to
properly set up and use a baitcast rig, there would be no added headache. A
baitcast reel can handle heavier line much better than a spinning reel, and
typically, a spinning rod does not have the necessary backbone to adequately
horse a fish from heavy cover. Sure, it can be done, but I can do the same
with a baitcaster with a rig that is much lighter and easier to fish with
all day. Saying you can do the same with a spinning rod is like saying that
you can pound a nail with a screwdriver. Yep, you probably can, but it's
not the right tool for the job. Matching line weight to fish is fine for
open water fishing, but there are many other factors that must be considered
when choosing tackle. Fishing many of the areas I do with eight pound line
will only result in borken line, lost lures and lost fish.
>
> They use open faced reels for deep sea fishing too- so obviously the
> new ones have the gusto to horse a big fish in as well. Correct ?
***Yes, they do use spinning rods for deep-sea fishing, but look at the
weight of a spinning rod/reel combination rated for 20 pound line, then
compare a baitcast combo rated for the same. I'd rather hold and cast the
baitcaster all day than the spinning rod/reel.
>
> Keep in mind professional bass fishermen get a lot of sponsor money.
***And those professional bass fishermen get paid to WIN tournaments. If
spinning tackle were the "End-All to End All", those selfsame professional
bass fishermen would be using spinning tackle. But, they don't, so
obviously there is a reason why baitcasting tackle is used. You could use a
Yugo to race the 24 Hours at LeMans, but you wouldn't be competitive.
>
> I've yet to try to make a cast that I could not make with a spinning
> reel. Where's the accuracy problem ? I've fished streams where the
> target area is 2 feet square- and anywhere else is a snag and lost
> hook/bait. If that's not an accuracy challenge, what is ?
***Then you obviously haven't fished with me. Two feet square? C'mon,
that's easy. Now, pitch a lure underneath overhanging tree branches into a
10 inch hole in the weeds, two feet underneath the overhang. THAT'S an
accuracy challenge.
>
> I agree that for pulling a lure through lilly pads and stumps, a
> baitcaster has the leverage advantage. But what average guy would fish
> that area, every time ? Sooner or later, one tires of the obstacles
> and snags. You may not break the line, but you may have to go up and
> unsnag it often.
***THAT'S exactly why baitcasting tackle is used, leverage and mechanical
advantage. I consider myself an average guy and I fish obstacles and snags
quite often. I prefer to actually CATCH fish and that means I have to go
where they live. If you're fishing bass, pike, and muskie, they are a very
object oriented fish. That means heavier tackle, heavier lures. I don't
tire of fishing in heavy cover and I don't have to "go up and unsnag if
often" as I use the proper tools for the job, baitcasting equipment.
>
> If there was a place where all of the fish caught were over 10 pounds,
> sure I'd use a bait caster. But the baitcaster aura is reminding me of
> a street car with a 6-71 supercharger sticking through the hood, that
> can't get out of it's own way.
***Obviously you don't understand the concept of using the correct equipment
for the task at hand and refuse to do so.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com
duty-honor-country
great post- thanks for the info- the problem I had with line 12 lb. and
less size, it would get behind the spool on the sides on the
baitcasting reel- there's just enough space there for a piece of link
to jam its way through- with the 15 lb. test that can't happen, as the
line is physically too large to get stuck back there. Since I moved
to 15 lb. test and tightened the spool tension- I'm having much fewer
backlashes. I just weighed the bottom fishing weight I'm using, it's
3/4 oz.
One thing I have noticed is, the spool tension has to be quite a bit
tighter than the typical "slowly allows the lure to drop to the floor"
setting. At that setting, it's backlash city. I can avoid backlash at
looser spool settings, but then I can't put much energy into the cast
for distance, otherwise it will backlash. With the tighter spool
setting, I can cast it harder and get more distance, and not get
backlashes. Making progress but still not getting the accuracy and
distance of my spinning gear.
But it will crank in an old car if I snag one !
jeffc
>
> I've been fishing for 37 years now, and to say a baitcaster is more
> accurate, is very misleading- and downright incorrect.
Wrong. You've been fishing a long time, which is not the same thing as
saying you're experienced, or good, yet.
>And I've fished small
> streams and creeks with open faced spinning reels, that require far
> more precision than any baitcaster can give-
No, they don't offer more precision. You just aren't good at it. But
spinning gear does offer an advantage over casting gear with very light
weight lures, and that's why you use spinning gear with very light lures.
> and would leave a
> baitcasting reel in a birdsnest tangle.
For those who can't cast, yes.
>
> The only useful purpose I can see for a baitcaster, is fishing from a
> boat on large lakes and ocean, where the bait it tossed a few feet from
> the boat, and then trolled- and the fish are huge over 15 pounds.
Ha ha ha ha ha.
> Calling that 1800's technology a "baitcaster" is somewhat of an
> oxymoron- it's a winch designed to haul up heavy fish- and a winch gets
> tangled when it spins backwards fast. The makers of those reals need
> to improve them a bit, to eliminate backlash.
Virtually all of them do.
> They don't cast bait for crap !
YOU don't cast bait for crap.
jeffc
>
> WARREN WOLK wrote:
>> Amazing you had time to haul in 12 fish, considering all the backlashes &
>> tangles you picked out.
>
> I fished for 9 hours over those 2 days. Spent 6 hours in the boat
> yesterday.
>
> Not only did I untangle the reel a zillion times- I'm now on my 3rd
> respool of line.
Like I said, you're just not good at it. Happens with all sorts of skills
with all sorts of people.
jeffc
>
> If you think about it, it's actually common sense. A baitcaster reel
> has more internal friction than a spinning reel.
Why don't you use your head man? There's a reason all the pros use casting
reels, and it ain't because the manufacturers are twisting their arms. They
could whatever kind of reel was the most popular. Figure out the reason
instead of stating all the time what you "know" about casting reels and how
to fish them.
jeffc
>
> whoa- are you saying you can use 8 and 10 pound line on a baitcasting
> reel ? I disagree- not very reliably !! Set the hook hard with 8
> pound test on a baitcaster, and it's going to bury the line into the
> spool ! Those baitcasting rigs don't even get near reliable unless
> used with 14-15 pound test.
This from an expert who's been using one for about a week.
jeffc
> You'll never have a backlash problem with a spinning reel. You may
> pull a few tangles out on a newly filled reel, but that will be it.
> You will have much more tangles with a baitcaster than a spinning rod.
No, YOU will. I've seen people have horrendous problems with spinning
reels.
> And all of a sudden, the "farther" argument for casting with
> baitcasters has disappeared.
No, just for light lures, as I said. The way the line comes off a spinning
reel means less friction, which is good for very light lures. When the
lures get heavier, it really doesn't matter because a bait caster can't cast
as far as he needs to, so it's moot.
jeffc
>problem I had with line 12 lb. and
> less size, it would get behind the spool on the sides on the
> baitcasting reel- there's just enough space there for a piece of link
> to jam its way through- with the 15 lb. test that can't happen, as the
> line is physically too large to get stuck back there.
That's a reel problem, not a line problem. Get a better reel, or one
designed to use with smaller diameter line.
jeffc
> question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
> at all times to (try to) prevent it- why would anyone bother even using
> a bait casting reel for fresh water fishing ? I can see the cranking
> advantage to a bait caster, for hauling in huge fish, and dragging
> lures through weeds, etc.. But in my actual experience, the bait
> casters can't cast as far, and not as accurately, as a cheap open face
> spinning reel or even a spincasting reel.
Being able to thumb the reel GIVES you control, it doesn't take it away.
Think about it. You fling a spincasting reel, and you're done. There's
nothing you can do about it. Anyway, once you get over how to keep control
of the reel, it's kind of like using a manual car instead of an automatic
one. And there's a feeling of being in "direct drive" rather than going
through an inefficient system - the line is "directly" attached to the reel,
not going through some system of pulleys and gears to get there
(exaggerating slightly :-)
> I'm getting the notion the reel industry is doing a lot of bs-ing to
> sell bait casters.
Don't be ridiculous. For what possible reason?
duty-honor-country
there's quite a few expert bass pros, using spinning and spincasting
reels- are they not just quite good at it ?
your argument does not hold any water.
duty-honor-country
are you saying spinning reels are more prone to backlashes than
baitcasters now ?
that's a hoot...
duty-honor-country
where the heck you've been hiding ?? wake up and smell the coffee-
quite a few of those "pros" you speak of, are showing up with spinning
and spincasting reels, more and more often. You need to get out more.
I posted a valid question- why use a baitcaster- and a few calm,
knowledgeable people posted very valid info. You posted the literal
equivalent of a backlash.
duty-honor-country
thumbing the reel adds friction, and will give control- at the cost of
distance.
you need to realize that baitcasters are slowly being superceded by
spincasting and spinning reels, for bass especially
read about it here
http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/fishing/freshwater/article/0,13199,456529,00.html
Do A Little Jig
Think small when largemouths get picky.
by Mark Hicks
Downsizing may have dire consequences when it comes to corporate
America, but in bass fishing the concept can be a day saver. When bass
grow temperamental, as they often do in response to cold fronts,
fishing pressure, and other myriad factors, they curb their appetites
for standard-size lures. Experienced anglers keep on getting bites by
switching to small plastic baits, such as 4-inch finesse worms, but
when bass are holding in thick cover, these are close to useless
because they can't penetrate the brush.
In this situation, Ron Yurko, who has won hundreds of thousands of
dollars in tournaments held on small, overfished impoundments in his
home state of Ohio, reaches for jigs that weigh only 1/8 ounce or so.
While lightweight jigs have long been a mainstay for smallmouth and
spotted bass anglers, Yurko is happy to admit that those who target
largemouths have little regard for these diminutive lures.
When other anglers can't buy a strike, Yurko consistently hooks bass
by flipping, pitching, and casting his bantam jig to shallow cover.
Aquatic vegetation, submerged wood, rocks, and boat docks all yield
largemouths, including some heavyweights. Most hookups come from water
3 feet deep or less.
Bantam Weights
Yurko's go-to jig is a homemade 1/8-ounce model he dresses sparsely
with either bucktail or squirrel hair. A few strands of thin rubber
over the hair add the final touch. A subtle wire weedguard protrudes
from the pointed jighead and shields the hook. Without a trailer, his
creation looks more like a streamer fly than a bass jig. On the line,
Yurko's bitty jig sinks slowly, settles lightly, and sneaks through
cover. It lures bass close and coaxes a feeding response.
The commercial model that most resembles Yurko's homemade one is the
Big Buck Hair Jig from Venom Lures. Bass Pro Shops' Smallmouth Jig,
which features a bucktail-and-silicone skirt, makes an excellent
substitute when you fish rocky bottoms and sparse cover. Also available
are a number of small-profile rubber-skirted jigs, such as Stanley's
Smallmouth Bass Jig. Don't let these smallmouth tags throw you-tip
these little jigs with tiny trailers, and they'll do a number on
those fickle largemouths.
Of course, every bass lure has drawbacks. Due to its lack of weight, a
bitty jig is much more difficult to flip and pitch into teacup-size
openings than a heavy one. Yurko employs Abu Garcia's discontinued
model 507, an underslung spincasting reel that easily manages 20-pound
line with a featherweight jig. Since it can be difficult to locate one
of these vintage reels, your best option is a spinning outfit loaded
with 12- to 14-pound-test.
In superdense cover, try a thin superbraid coupled with Rippler's
Lo-Pro Jig designed by Frank Scalish, the former Citgo BASS Master Tour
Rookie of the Year. The slightly heavier Lo-Pro jigs come in 1/4- and
3/8-ounce sizes, yet maintain the small profile of a 1/8-ounce model.
The wisp of added weight will help you probe the thick stuff, where a
finicky bass is bound to be waiting for an appetizer. When you get back
to the dock with a load of fish, do Yurko a favor: Don't tell anyone
about your itty-bitty secret.
duty-honor-country
you really think all the pros use casting reels ?
man, are you wrong. Some of those "pros" are stuffing 20 lb. test in
Zebco spincasters, and tightening the drag all the way, and whipping
the guys who have baitcasting reels
http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/fishing/freshwater/article/0,13199,456529,00.html
duty-honor-country
posted like a true bass pro !
mla...@gmail.com
RichZ wrote:
> duty-honor-country wrote:
> > question- considering the incessant amount of tangles and backlashes
> > with ANY bait casting reel,
>
My thoughts exactly...
I grew up fishing the dug out coal mines in Illinois, where I fished
nothing but spinning reels. Once we moved to Florida, I was introduced
to baitcasters...
I USED to HATE baitcasters, but soon found out from a local semi-pro
fisherman that I was using it wrong...
Duty-country-honor... sounds to me like you are angry at baitcasters
for something which is your own fault: not learning the ins/outs... of
the equipment
you need to either:
A) get lessons
B) shut yer cake-hole
baitcasters can be flipped much easier than a spinning real if they
have a flipping release, and are much easier to control larger fish,
maybe you should read your owners manual or download one?
Gary Udstrand
>> Like I said, you're just not good at it. Happens with all sorts of skills
>> with all sorts of people.
>
> there's quite a few expert bass pros, using spinning and spincasting
> reels- are they not just quite good at it ?
>
> your argument does not hold any water.
Yours makes no sense.
Simply, you cannot judge the performance and usage of the baitcaster based
on just your own experience. It appears that you are very much less
skilled than others when it comes to casting and controlling such a reel.
The reason that baitcasters are popular is that they work well for many,
many fisherman. You just don't happen to be one of them.
There is a simple solution, just use your spinning gear and be happy and
recognize that others use and enjoy baitcasters.
Anything less makes you nothing more than a troll.
--
-Gary
Gary Udstrand
> I'll put 2 pound test on my Shimano spinning reel, with an ounce
> weight- and you'll be waiting for minutes for it to land- and using
> binoculars to see where it landed.
I know that the first thing I reach for when fishing a one ounce lure is my
ultra-light with two pound test.
--
-Gary
Charles B. Summers
I can do the same thing with a baitcaster... all the while switching hands
and no thumb.
Why would I want to put 2 pound test on my baitcaster though. It's not about
distance, it's about putting my bait where I need it, using the right bait
at the right time. Nothing else matters...
Putting two pound test on anything and expecting to catch any sizable fish
is just plain crazy... float-n-fly excluded.
"duty-honor-country" <winches...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155003128.2...@n13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Gary Udstrand
> whoa- are you saying you can use 8 and 10 pound line on a baitcasting
> reel ? I disagree- not very reliably !! Set the hook hard with 8
> pound test on a baitcaster, and it's going to bury the line into the
> spool ! Those baitcasting rigs don't even get near reliable unless
> used with 14-15 pound test. Those bass pros aren't using 8 pound test
> on baitcasters, that's for sure- it would be a recipe for disaster.
I use only 10lb test on my baitcaster, have for years. Works just fine. I
think your biggest problem is the failure to acknowledge that others might
be more skilled with a baitcaster than you are with your limited
experience.
--
-Gary
Alwaysfishking
> my spinning rig with a wooden plug- still able to cast much further
> with the spinning reel and more accurately.
You never said what type of casting reel you are using or what type rod it's
mounted on. That would make a difference in your ability to cast acurately
as well as for distance.. It might be that your using a cheaper or older
baitcaster. Technology has come a long way, but it's not cheap. My next reel
will most likey be a Diawa ventro? I saw this reel the other day and it has
a sweet little jigging button right over the spool, just tap it with your
thumb and it reels up a bit of line, looks great for pulling in slack and
working worms and jigs, roughly around 200.00
WARREN WOLK
1 oz lure a mile with it.
WW
"Charles B. Summers" <charles...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:APidnSfhyOeVWEXZ...@comcast.com...
jeffc
Really? Because bass pros use spinning equipment my argument that you're no
good at casting doesn't hold water? Hilarious. How about the fact that as
well as occasional spinning use, pro bass fishermen use casting gear by FAR
more often?
jeffc
What the HELL are you talking about? Go look up "non sequitur" and see what
you think
jeffc
>
> jeffc wrote:
>> "duty-honor-country" <winches...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1154999144.6...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > If you think about it, it's actually common sense. A baitcaster reel
>> > has more internal friction than a spinning reel.
>>
>> Why don't you use your head man? There's a reason all the pros use
>> casting
>> reels, and it ain't because the manufacturers are twisting their arms.
>> They
>> could whatever kind of reel was the most popular. Figure out the reason
>> instead of stating all the time what you "know" about casting reels and
>> how
>> to fish them.
>
> you really think all the pros use casting reels ?
Yes. Most use it most of the time. Most use other gear sometimes. Some
use other gear maybe even more often. You really have trouble with logic
and debate, about as much as you have trouble bait casting.
jeffc
>
>>>
>> > I'm getting the notion the reel industry is doing a lot of bs-ing to
>> > sell bait casters.
>>
>> Don't be ridiculous. For what possible reason?
>
> thumbing the reel adds friction, and will give control- at the cost of
> distance.
The reel industry is bs-ing to sell bait casters because the reel adds
friction? Can you read or are you just being as annoying as possible?
duty-honor-country
jeffc wrote:
> "duty-honor-country" <winches...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1155046824.9...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > jeffc wrote:
> >> "duty-honor-country" <winches...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1154984538....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > WARREN WOLK wrote:
> >> >> Amazing you had time to haul in 12 fish, considering all the
> >> >> backlashes &
> >> >> tangles you picked out.
> >> >
> >> > I fished for 9 hours over those 2 days. Spent 6 hours in the boat
> >> > yesterday.
> >> >
> >> > Not only did I untangle the reel a zillion times- I'm now on my 3rd
> >> > respool of line.
> >>
> >> Like I said, you're just not good at it. Happens with all sorts of
> >> skills
> >> with all sorts of people.
> >
> > there's quite a few expert bass pros, using spinning and spincasting
> > reels- are they not just quite good at it ?
> >
> > your argument does not hold any water.
>
> Really? Because bass pros use spinning equipment my argument that you're no
> good at casting doesn't hold water? Hilarious. How about the fact that as
> well as occasional spinning use, pro bass fishermen use casting gear by FAR
> more often?
yes, your argument doesn't hold any water- because you attack people
you don't even know, over fishing tackle preferences.
We're talking fishing tackle here, not people.
duty-honor-country
jeffc wrote:
> "duty-honor-country" <winches...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1155046883.2...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > jeffc wrote:
> >> "duty-honor-country" <winches...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1154960296.1...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> > You'll never have a backlash problem with a spinning reel. You may
> >> > pull a few tangles out on a newly filled reel, but that will be it.
> >> > You will have much more tangles with a baitcaster than a spinning rod.
> >>
> >> No, YOU will. I've seen people have horrendous problems with spinning
> >> reels.
> >>
> >> > And all of a sudden, the "farther" argument for casting with
> >> > baitcasters has disappeared.
> >>
> >> No, just for light lures, as I said. The way the line comes off a
> >> spinning
> >> reel means less friction, which is good for very light lures. When the
> >> lures get heavier, it really doesn't matter because a bait caster can't
> >> cast
> >> as far as he needs to, so it's moot.
> >
> > are you saying spinning reels are more prone to backlashes than
> > baitcasters now ?
>
> What the HELL are you talking about? Go look up "non sequitur" and see what
> you think
semantics
duty-honor-country
I disagree- I CAN judge the baitcasting reel I'm using, because I
bought it- so I have that right. It's mine to hold in whatever regard
I want. And after sampling one, unless you use a 3/4 oz. lure and are
willing to give up casting distance- the only thing they are good for,
is cranking big fish in reliably. A baitcaster casting traits are
inferior to spinning and spincasting- in distance and maintenance
issues- i.e. backlash tangles.
You're forgetting, I bought one.
duty-honor-country
Yes, earlier in the thread I stated it's a Shimano open faced spinning
reel with fighting drag-
and now that you ask, it is an Abu Garcia graphite rod.
duty-honor-country
hey, it's a casting contest. It's not a fishing contest.
jeffc
>
> jeffc wrote:
>> "duty-honor-country" <winches...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1154999144.6...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > If you think about it, it's actually common sense. A baitcaster reel
>> > has more internal friction than a spinning reel.
>>
>> Why don't you use your head man? There's a reason all the pros use
>> casting
>> reels, and it ain't because the manufacturers are twisting their arms.
>> They
>> could whatever kind of reel was the most popular. Figure out the reason
>> instead of stating all the time what you "know" about casting reels and
>> how
>> to fish them.
>
> where the heck you've been hiding ?? wake up and smell the coffee-
> quite a few of those "pros" you speak of, are showing up with spinning
> and spincasting reels, more and more often. You need to get out more.
So? They still use casting gear most often. And according to you, it can't
be done without hopelessly tangling their gear and wasting fishing time. I
wonder why they would do that all day long? Did you hear anyone here say
there is no place for spinning gear among serious bass fishermen?
> I posted a valid question- why use a baitcaster
No you didn't. You keep trolling and you're getting plenty of what you
deserve. You came to argue and trash something you don't understand because
you have very little experience with it.
duty-honor-country
The man thinks he can outcast a spinning rod, while he uses 20 pound
test. He's mistaken. Even if there was 8 lb. test on the spinning
rig, it would cast further. And you could still haul in a 6 pound
bass. So this is a matter of semantics and a moot point.
duty-honor-country
maybe on the 3rd cast it may break. But it would still outcast a
baitcaster for distance, the baitcaster using 20 lb. test- that's a
laughable challenge on the baitcaster's part ! He would not have a
chance.
heck, one could outcast him with 6 pound test on a spinning rod just as
easily.
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
"duty-honor-country" <winches...@hotmail.com> wrote in message <SNIP>
> I disagree- I CAN judge the baitcasting reel I'm using, because I
> bought it- so I have that right. It's mine to hold in whatever regard
> I want. And after sampling one, unless you use a 3/4 oz. lure and are
> willing to give up casting distance- the only thing they are good for,
> is cranking big fish in reliably. A baitcaster casting traits are
> inferior to spinning and spincasting- in distance and maintenance
> issues- i.e. backlash tangles.
>
> You're forgetting, I bought one.
Yeah fine, you bought one. But what kind? There is a world of difference
in quality and castability of baitcast reels. That's like saying, I think
all cars suck because I bought and drove a Pinto!
I use primarily Shimano Curado, Chronarch and Cardiff reels. I reliably,
accurately and as far as I want to cast lures as light as 1/4 oz. with my
baitcasting tackle. One thing you haven't mentioned is what kind of reel
you're using, what brand/kind of line and what rod you're using. The rod
you use is an important part of the casting equation.
Years ago, I worked in a bait/tackle shop. I had a middle-aged guy come in,
asking for assistance with some fishing tackle he had purchased elsewhere.
He explained that he was having trouble casting his new baitcaster without
bird's nests. Since we were slow at the time, I went out into the parking
lot with him.
He had an Ambassaduer 5500 reel (a decent enough reel), mated with a 9 foot
fly rod (and a cheap one at that)!!! Well duh, no wonder why he was having
trouble casting!!!
So, tell me exactly what reel you're using, what rod you have (brand, power
rating and line/lure rating). I also need to know the line you're using and
is the rod rated moderate, fast, extra-fast, what is the total package
you're attempting to use with so much difficulty.
To carry the car analogy further, it's hard to get Indy Car performance when
the car is riding on Wal-Mart tires. The reel might be the problem, it
might be the rod too.
So, before you start slamming baitcasting tackle as obsolete technology,
only good for winching fish out, or the tackle companies out to pull a fast
one, enlighten us with your complete setup.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
But, what kind of Abu Garcia graphite rod? What is the power rating, what
is the line rating, what is the lure weight range and is it a moderate, fast
or extra-fast taper? All that information should be on the label of the
rod.
Now, what brand and model of baitcast reel?
RichZ
>
> whoa- are you saying you can use 8 and 10 pound line on a baitcasting
> reel ? I disagree- not very reliably !!
You have no business telling me or anyone else what is or isn't possible
with tackle that you don't use and haven't bothered to master. I used 8
on casting tackle all through the spring for throwing jerkbaits. I use
10 on casting tackle for virtually all light jigging. Hell, I won a
Ranger in a tourney more than 20 years ago and every single fish I
caught in that tourney was caught on 10 pound test line on a casting
rod, throwing a 1/4 oz jig & pig.
You really need to refrain from spouting off about something you know
nothing whatsoever about.
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
"duty-honor-country" <winches...@hotmail.com> wrote in message <SNIP>
> The man thinks he can outcast a spinning rod, while he uses 20 pound
> test. He's mistaken. Even if there was 8 lb. test on the spinning
> rig, it would cast further. And you could still haul in a 6 pound
> bass. So this is a matter of semantics and a moot point.
LOL, don't discount Harry. I've seen him cast and I wouldn't put it past
him to outcast a spinning rod while using 20 pound line on a baitcast rod.
And, come on up to the Northwoods Classic next month. You can fish with me
using 8 pound test and a spinning rod. I'll fish nothing but my baitcast
equipment. At the end of two days of fishing, we'll see who has more fish
weight landed!
It's not semantics, it's reasonable and responsible angling. Fishing isn't
about who can cast the furthest, it's about hooking and LANDING fish!
Thundercat
>lol, this troll is eating well. 2# test would snap if you tried to heave a
>1 oz lure a mile with it.
>
>WW
>
It would make for an interesting sight. His 1oz weight sitting 3 feet
behind him after snapping his 2 lb test line while trying to create
enough velocity to heave the thing farther than I can with my
curmudgeonly old bait caster. Simple things amuse me.
For the record, it appears that many of my posts are not showing up
here so I am forced to use this Google stuff. My (joke of an) ISP is
well, a joke. :)
RichZ
>
>
> man, are you wrong. Some of those "pros" are stuffing 20 lb. test in
> Zebco spincasters, and tightening the drag all the way, and whipping
> the guys who have baitcasting reels
Name them. Don't quote the article referenced below. It's about ONE guy
doing something totally different, who is forced to use an oddball
discontinued reel (not a common zebco spincast reel as you intimated) to
use very light lures in very heavy cover. And guess what -- there are
hundreds of pros out there using casting and flipping gear to present
similar lures. Further, as soon as he switches to heavier lures, you can
be Mr Yurko switches to casting gear.
>
> http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/fishing/freshwater/article/0,13199,456529,00.html
>
You keep mentioning distance, but casting distance is very close to
being irrelevant in bass fishing. I probably fish farther from my quarry
than most bass anglers, and have no problems reaching them with casting
tackle -- and I'm not even close to the most skilled caster I know.
I'm done. I do not suffer fools gladly, and have grown quite weary of
arguing with one. It's apparent by the amount of time you have invested
in this thread that you are in serious need of a life. I, on the other
hand have one, and the time I'm willing to take from it for this matter
has expired.
Todd Copeland
>
> Gary Udstrand wrote:
> > Simply, you cannot judge the performance and usage of the baitcaster
based
> > on just your own experience. It appears that you are very much less
> > skilled than others when it comes to casting and controlling such a
reel.
> > The reason that baitcasters are popular is that they work well for many,
> > many fisherman. You just don't happen to be one of them.
> >
> I disagree- I CAN judge the baitcasting reel I'm using, because I
> bought it- so I have that right. It's mine to hold in whatever regard
> I want. And after sampling one, unless you use a 3/4 oz. lure and are
> willing to give up casting distance- the only thing they are good for,
> is cranking big fish in reliably. A baitcaster casting traits are
> inferior to spinning and spincasting- in distance and maintenance
> issues- i.e. backlash tangles.
Your posts asks why _"anyone"_ would use a baitcaster... not just yourself.
No one can speak for why you would or would not use one. What people _are_
addressing is why they (and most people_ use baitcasters.
If you don't agree, don't. But the fact is clear... most people use
baitcasters because they _are_ more accurate.
jeffc
>> >
>> > are you saying spinning reels are more prone to backlashes than
>> > baitcasters now ?
>>
>> What the HELL are you talking about? Go look up "non sequitur" and see
>> what
>> you think
>
> semantics
You have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
mhood
(1/16-1/2oz, 2-12# line) with 4# Yozuri Soft spooled and it will cast a
1/8oz Rat-L-Trap well over 100'. I have an identical pimped Pixy (with
a drag upgrade coming + the super-tuning done to it's twin) on the
Megabass F7-711X Seven-Eleven (Fast, ΕΊ-2 oz., 10-30lbs.) Telescopic with
20# PowerPro braid spooled. This thing is a pitchin' and flippin'
monster. I find that some baitcasters cast light weights better than
others but IMHO, distance isn't a big factor in the decision to go with
a spinner until you get down to 1/16-1/32oz. My spinning gear is all UL
and only gets used for panfish. OMT, I only tried shootin' docks one
time with a baitcaster. :-)
duty-honor-country wrote:
> I can cast hundreds
> of feet with my spinning reel- and hardly 100 feet with a bait caster
> with a lug nut attached for weight.
>
> I'm getting the notion the reel industry is doing a lot of bs-ing to
> sell bait casters.
>
> skeptic bordering on cynic...
>
jeffc
>
> yes, your argument doesn't hold any water- because you attack people
> you don't even know, over fishing tackle preferences.
>
> We're talking fishing tackle here, not people.
Bwahahahahahaha. It's not your "preference". You've argued with every
person here, and every person here has told you the exact same thing.
You're dogmatic and argumentative and you wonder why someone gives you a
hard time back. You fairly new to Usenet?
jeffc
"Todd Copeland" <to...@copelandhome.net> wrote in message
news:vN9Cg.5636$xp2....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> Your posts asks why _"anyone"_ would use a baitcaster... not just
> yourself.
> No one can speak for why you would or would not use one.
I'll give it a shot. He's incompetant with bait casting tackle. However,
I'm getting the impression he's either pretty dumb, or pretty competant at
trolling Usenet.
Joe Z
"Ken Fortenberry" <kennethfo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9LMBg.2386$%j7....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
> Bob La Londe wrote:
>> "Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
>>> ... But I tried to cast with my
>>> Dad's old Ambasseuder 5000 and never could get the hang of
>>> the damn thing, so I basically agree with Mr. d-h-c. 1/2 :-)
>>
>> Never had a 5000, but we had a bunch of 5000D models for catfishing and
>> they
>> were great. They could crank a catfish out of hole like a Warn winch
>> pulling a Volkswagon out of a ditch. ...
>
> Funny, I compare it to a winch too but in a disparaging way.
> I just don't see the challenge in catching a 10 pound fish
> on 20 lb. test. Hell, you watch some of the stuff on the TV
> and those guys may as well just push a button. Fish on, zip,
> fish in the boat. Phooey on that. A challenge is catching a
> 15 pound fish on 4X 6.4 lb. test. And I'm not talkin' about
> using 4X just to make a game of it, I'm talking about fishing
> for Michigan steelhead using a size 14 black stonefly nymph
> where that's the biggest fly that will work and 4X is the
> thickest piece of nylon that will fit through the eye of the
> hook. Now *that's* a challenge, and a workout for the drag
> on your fly reel, and a test of your skill in applying just
> the right amount of pressure with the fly rod.
>
> --
> Ken Fortenberry - not trolling ... well, not too much ;-)
I think you hit the nail on the head Ken....... trolling. Mr. DHC has
suckered the whole damn group into a lot of chest thumping and
hyperventilating. IMHO of course. Joe Z ;-)
duty-honor-country
A car is a lot more complex machine than a fishing reel. Not a good
comparison.
A baitcaster IS obsolete technology- it dates from the 1800's, which is
why they are called a "conventional" fishing rig.
They require very heavy line and lures to cast well- and still will not
cast as far as a spinning reel.
I can see where a baitcaster's brute force aspect would be a good thing
for hauling in large fish- as they are a mini-winch. But they make
spinning reels that take 15 lb. test now too.
Spinning reels are becoming more attractive. That's all I'm saying. A
baitcaster is more labor-intensive. Not everyone wants to thumb the
spool to avoid backlashes when fishing.
duty-honor-country
I have yet to see this accuracy advantage. I also shoot and own many
guns. More accurate ones are obvious from the first 3 shots. This reel
scatters the lure all over the place. My Shimano spinning reel is
actually more accurate.
duty-honor-country
I've got 2 shingles hanging on the wall here. How many do you have ??
Oh, that's right...none.
duty-honor-country
ps- and you spelled "incompetent" wrong. Funny isn't it...and you're
pointing the finger at others, saying they are dumb.
duty-honor-country
hey, I'm not the one spelling words wrong, you are.
duty-honor-country
what the hell you looking for, a gay date ? or are you writing a
friggin' book ?
besides, you can't even spell
duty-honor-country
hey, chest thumping and hyper-ventilating is part of being a man. I
shoot guns, race cars with big V-8's in them, and fish. You don't see
bass pros or NASCAR drivers who are successful, without a bit of an
ego. So this is a good thing.
I set out to find out WHY someone would put up with all the downfalls
of a baitcaster- and it seems to be, for the cranking in capability.
It's certainly not for the casting ability, because they are inferior
casting machines. It seems many have been suckered in by advertising
ploys. Now that bass pros are showing up with spinning and spincasting
reels, it's obvious even the pros aren't buying into this baitcaster
line 100%.
Who wants to fish with a 3/4 oz. lure all the time ?
duty-honor-country
the problem is, you have to use 15 lb. test and a 3/4 oz. lure to get
the reel to avoid backlash
they are more accurate ?? then tie a #8 hook on, and half a live
nightwalker- and see how far you can cast, with 8 lb. test.
Karen C.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060809/NEWS02/308090045
Karen C.
Bass_Mr.
14 year old DAUGHTER can use one with ease. I taught her.
You may be toooooooo proud to actually "learn" from someone else with your
chest stuck out so far.Do us all a favor and make it your
DUTY- to learn to use one.
HONOR- us all by not being a blowhard whiner.
COUNTRY- move to another one.
Or, be a man and admit you can't or won't learn from someone that can teach
you. Otherwise, just shut up! This thread had gotten way too much attention.
I'm done.news:1155126046.3...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
Charles B. Summers
> bitty jig is much more difficult to flip and pitch into teacup-size
> openings than a heavy one.
LOL... you've never seen me pitch.
Charles B. Summers
Thanks bicyclingg
<bicyc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1155129926.4...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Bass_Mr. wrote:
>> Your total ineptness with baitcasting equipment is the real problem here.
>> My
>> 14 year old DAUGHTER can use one with ease. I taught her.
>> You may be toooooooo proud to actually "learn" from someone else with
>> your
>> chest stuck out so far.Do us all a favor and make it your
>> DUTY- to learn to use one.
>> HONOR- us all by not being a blowhard whiner.
>> COUNTRY- move to another one.
>> Or, be a man and admit you can't or won't learn from someone that can
>> teach
>> you. Otherwise, just shut up! This thread had gotten way too much
>> attention.
>> I'm done.
>
> Google "Charlie Nudo" or "66fourdoor" and see who you are dealing with.
>
duty-honor-country
How can you pass judgement ? You never saw me cast. Again- you're
attacking a person, rather than discussing the gear.
And your 14 year old daughter can cast a spinning reel even easier.
How many run-overs did you have to untangle for her ?
"with ease"- yeh, sure she can..
Whatmeworry
Well...since your so damn smart, why did you buy a conventional reel
in the first place?
bill allemann
to ask?
bill
duty-honor-country
hey, you're the expert on the bass newsgroup, right ??- I've yet to see
you post rod length recommended per lure weight used- which is ancient
rule of thumb for baitcasting- info that a baitcasting guru such as
yourself should know. A few have answered calmly and sensibly and were
informative. You are amongst the posters who attack people, over the
topic is fishing tackle.
you must be really fun to fish with, no doubt...no doubt...really
fun...
John Kerr
angels can dance on the head of a pin?"
Is there really a right or wrong answer?
I also noted that some peope have more idle time on their hands than a
"fisherman" would :).
Anyone interested in how the "hot" weather bite is going on Kentucky
Lake?
JK