basically the only reason people used them, was back in 1900, there
was nothing else- only baitcasters and fly reels- spinning and
spincasting reels were not invented yet
anyone that says they can "cast further with a baitcaster" is FOS-
think about it, use common sense
on a spinning reel, the only thing that has to leave the reel, is the
line itself
on a baitcaster, the spool has to turn
there is more friction turning the spool, than the line just leaving
the spinning reel
so there you have it
why do people use them ? for the same reason they like 1970
Chevelles, tube stereos, and battleships- they are a cool relic of the
past
truth be told, there's not a freshwater fish alive, you can't land
with a spinning or spincasting reel
the only "practical" sane use for a baitcaster, is deep see fishing or
trolling, for very, very big fish- like swordfish- and trolling- where
you toss your bait over the side, let line out, and troll the lure
sure, there are people that can cast 100-150 ft. with a baitcaster
but even a novice can cast 250 feet with a spinning reel-
there's simply no comparison- but for some reason, these "bass pros"
won't admit to that-
reason- they are getting cash endorsements from reel companies- and
the reel companies make a ton of money from baitcasting reels people
use a few times, have problems with, then sit and collect dust
just look at how many old baitcasting reels there are on Ebay. Just
try casting with one. The old baitcasters had no clutch, drag, or
casting resistance settings- all they had was a clicker button-
the clicker served as a half-assed "drag" to wear down a fish, and an
"alarm" to tell the fisherman, when a fish has hit his lure while
trolling
NOT for casting, or for clutching
the recent additions of the clutch, drag, release button, etc.
settings, was merely an attempt at making a reel designed for cranking
a big fish in, to also cast
having said this, I have spent last 2 days practicing casting an old
1960's vintage baitcaster reel, the reel handle actually spins when
casted, there is no release button on it- maximum casting range so far
is 60 feet- that's about it
To each his own - you use whatever you want to use and I will, too.
With modern baitcaster, I have to disagree about casting distance. In my
experience it's limited primarily by rod length and action, lure weight,
and wind resistance, not by the type of reel. If a baitcaster is set
right on the verge of over-run, I.e. you can see loose coils of line
around the spool during the cast, the reel isn't slowing down the lure
or shortening the cast. While it's impractical, for me at least, to fish
that way all day, just a very slight increase of the cast control
eliminates the loose coils, shortening the cast by a few feet.
I do fish with both kinds, but actually have more tangles with a
spinning reel usually related to line twist. It's a good thing most
spinning reels come with spare spools! And while I wouldn't bother with
a tube stereo, I do have a couple of tube guitar amps & wouldn't have it
any other way ;-)
In article <d31b95f1-42a8-4ba5-ab06-19728b9d1955@
25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>, matthew...@yahoo.com says...
first baitcasters were made in the 1600's- we are talking a 400 year
old design
by comparison, the first spinning reels were invented in the 1870's-
the primary purpose of a spinning reel ? eliminate backlash, and to
cast lighter weight lures
it's common knowledge that baitcasters don't work well with light
lures
see it here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishing_reel#Bait_casting_reel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishing_reel#Spinning_.28fixed_spool.29_reel
"Early reels were often operated by inverting the reel and using back
winding to retrieve line. For this reason, the reel crank handle was
positioned on the right side of the reel.[2] As a result, the right-
hand crank position for bait casting reels has become customary over
the years"
so the reason the crank handle is on the wrong side, is back 200 years
ago, they turned the reel over to crank it in with left hand- now, is
that a good reason to have the crank on right side today ? NO, it
isn't
you have to use common sense with this stuff- a lot of things we are
sold and told today, are done for political and economic (i.e. money)
reasons
Bait casting reel
Bait casting reels are reels in which line is stored on a bearing
supported revolving spool. The bait casting reel is mounted above the
rod, hence its other name, the overhead reel. The bait casting reel
dates from at least the mid-1600s, but came into wide use by amateur
anglers during the 1870s. Early bait casting reels were often
constructed with brass or iron gears, with casings and spools made of
brass, German silver, or hard rubber. Early reels were often operated
by inverting the reel and using back winding to retrieve line. For
this reason, the reel crank handle was positioned on the right side of
the reel.[2] As a result, the right-hand crank position for bait
casting reels has become customary over the years, though models with
left-hand retrieve are now gaining in popularity. Many of today's bait
casting reels are constructed using aluminum, stainless steel, and/or
synthetic composite materials. They typically include a level-wind
mechanism to prevent the line from being trapped under itself on the
spool during rewind and interfering with subsequent casts. Many are
also fitted with anti-reverse handles and drags designed to slow runs
by large and powerful game fish. Because the momentum of the forward
cast must rotate the spool as well as propel the fishing lure, bait
casting designs normally require heavier lures for proper operation
than with other types of reels. The gear ratio in bait casting reels
was initially about 3/1, later standardized at 4/1 in most reels, but
recent developments have seen many bait casting reels with gear ratios
as high as 5.5/1 or even higher. Higher gear ratios allow much faster
retrieval of line, but sacrifice a small amount of power in exchange.
Spool tension on most modern bait casting reels can be adjusted with
adjustable spool tension, a centrifugal brake, or a magnetic "cast
control." This reduces spool overrun during a cast and the resultant
line snare, known as backlash. Each time a lure of a different weight
is attached, the cast control must be adjusted. The bait casting reel
design will operate well with a wide variety of fishing lines, ranging
from braided multifilament and heat-fused "superlines" to copolymer,
fluorocarbon, and nylon monofilaments (see Fishing line). Most bait
casting reels can also easily be palmed or thumbed to increase the
drag, set the hook, or to accurately halt the lure at a given point in
the cast.
A variation of the bait casting reel is the big game reel. These are
very large and robust fishing reels, designed and built for heavy
saltwater species such as tuna, marlin, sailfish and sharks. Big game
reels are not designed for casting, but used for trolling or fishing
set baits and lures on the open ocean.
Bait casting reels are sometimes referred to as conventional reels in
the U.S. They are known as multiplier reels in Europe, on account of
their geared line retrieve (one turn of the handle resulting in
multiple turns of the spool).
Bait Casting Reel Operation
A bait casting reel and rod is cast by moving the rod backward, then
snapping it forward. During the forward cast, the weight of the lure
pulls the line off the reel. The thumb is used to halt the lure at the
desired location and to prevent spool overrun. Though modern
centrifigal braking systems help to control backlash, using a bait
casting reel still requires practice, and a certain amount of finesse
on the part of the fisherman for best results.
>heads up people- baitcaster reels are older than the Ford Model T, and
>just as antiquated.......snips.........
My head has been up regarding reels for over 50 years, and for
absolute accuracy and careful presentation, modern baitcasters are
FAR superior to spinning reels. That said, I use both because both
serve their intended purposes extremely well.
My Dad used one and I always called it the knuckle buster AND he used a
braided type of line.
I was reading a "freshwater fishing" hardcover reference book- it
states right there in black and white- a spinning reel will cast much
further, a lot easier, with no backlash problems- than any baitcaster
will
what we have with spinning vs. baitcasting reels is, 2 different
schools of thought- the baitcaster was a descendant of the 1800's
"Kentucky" reel and invented in USA- the spinning reel was invented in
Europe in early 1900's
the spinning reel will handle lighter lures and lighter lines, for
catching cunning fish that won't bite if they see the line- current
spinning rods/reels are designed for 12 lb. test or heavier- plenty
for any bass fisherman
where the baitcaster comes into play is very LARGE fish 15-20 pounds
or larger, where the strong reel design and winch action will wear
down/horse in a large fish with less strain
using a baitcaster reel to catch 3 lb. fish is really overkill, like
swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. Sure it will work, but a
flyswatter is a lot lighter and more efficient and less hassle to
use. The thicker line required on a baitcaster to prevent backlash,
will limit strikes on wary fish like trout- I've gone from 4 lb. to 6
lb. test on my spinning reel and got less trout strikes- that's just
how sensitive those fish are to line size and natural drift of bait- a
heavy line turns them off
casting distance- no comparison- I can cast 2-3 times further with a
cheap open face spinning reel, over any baitcaster reel made
baitcasters are much like golf clubs, you use the same cast force with
every lure, but heavier lures will go further than light lures will-
just like a golfer uses same stroke every time, with a different club-
try to cast a baitcaster harder, it will just backlash worse- casting
it smoothly and with even pressure, actually makes it cast further-
and I can cast much further with a sidearm cast, then overhead pitching
this statement needs to be qualified- more accurate, but how far of a
cast, with what weight line ?
I've been using spinning reels for 40 years- and fishing some very
difficult, covered streams with them- where any type of overhead cast
means you're stuck in a tree branch above you due to cover brush- and
using 4-6 lb. test lines- there's simply no way a baitcaster can do
that
try casting a baitcaster with 2 mealie grubs for bait on a hook, with
4 lb. line. A spinning reel does it effortlessly
the basic design of a baitcaster, makes it less accurate, not more
accurate. The reel spool turning and putting drag on the lure, and
requiring thumb pressure to prevent backlash, isn't helping accuracy.
You can pitch a spinning reel lure the same as a baitcaster, with no
backlash and with thinner line, and lighter weight lure-and not have
to thumb the spool.
the baitcaster needs to equal/best a spinning reel in all respects,
if it's going to be "better"
the same amount of practice would yield same accuracy with spinning
reel, and the spinning reel has more distance- one can master a
spinning reel in one day- not so with a baitcaster
what we have is, a lot of misinformation/disinformation from reel
companies, who are still selling what is basically an outdated
trolling reel or deep sea reel design, for casting baits- it's simply
not as good a for casting as a spinning reel
a baitcaster DOES have more winching in power- hands down- that is its
only salvation- for catching a large quantity of fish over 10 lbs. in
size, trolling from a boat or deap sea fishing, the choice would be a
baitcaster
a baitcaster does have a vintage romantic charm to it though- and it's
a sturdy thing- I have 4 of them myself, and have using them for about
2 years now. But after a while, it's nice to just put 8 lb. test on
my open face reel, and cast 200 feet effortlessly- and it's deadly
accurate.
I'm not sure what it's called, but what happens to me with spinning
reels, particularly wide spool ones when I try a cast just a little
farther than it wants to go, is about 100-200 loops of line come off the
spool all at once and try to make it through the first guide. The abrupt
stop sometimes send whatever was tied on the end off into the deep blue.
Unlike minor backlashes on a baitcaster, there's no way to fix this
mess.
> Fished all morning with my trusty Calcutta 150, St Croix 6.5' medium
> fast rod, 10 lb. Berkley Sensation, and had zero backlashes, which is
> pretty much normal. Sure glad I had it when that Northern shot out from
> nowhere, hit the lure 3 ft. away from the boat going like a freight
> train, and dove under the boat into the weeds. He pretty much trashed my
> spinnerbait, but I figure it was worth it.
I don't know why baitcasting would serve you better than spinning in that
situation if you were also using 10# line and a similar strength rod and
proper drag setting.
> I'm not sure what it's called, but what happens to me with spinning
> reels, particularly wide spool ones when I try a cast just a little
> farther than it wants to go, is about 100-200 loops of line come off the
> spool all at once and try to make it through the first guide. The abrupt
> stop sometimes send whatever was tied on the end off into the deep blue.
> Unlike minor backlashes on a baitcaster, there's no way to fix this
> mess.
I call them spinning tangles or birds' nests. I use only spinning these days
but when I used some baitcasting years ago I didn't have many backlash
problems and what I did have were not nearly as bad as spinning tangles
which, fortunately, don't occur that often. If you're getting 100+ loops
coming off at once you may be using a line that's too stiff for spinning
reels and/or allowing loops to form on the reel spool.
I do use spinning as well and have a nice 7' ML on the boat for more
vertical presentations and keep a 6'L in the truck for promising streams
and ponds - I don't think I would use a baitcaster from shore.
> > I'm not sure what it's called, but what happens to me with spinning
> > reels, particularly wide spool ones when I try a cast just a little
> > farther than it wants to go, is about 100-200 loops of line come off the
> > spool all at once and try to make it through the first guide. The abrupt
> > stop sometimes send whatever was tied on the end off into the deep blue.
> > Unlike minor backlashes on a baitcaster, there's no way to fix this
> > mess.
>
> I call them spinning tangles or birds' nests. I use only spinning these days
> but when I used some baitcasting years ago I didn't have many backlash
> problems and what I did have were not nearly as bad as spinning tangles
> which, fortunately, don't occur that often. If you're getting 100+ loops
> coming off at once you may be using a line that's too stiff for spinning
> reels and/or allowing loops to form on the reel spool.
>
That may be, but I suspect it may be from not enough tension during the
retrieve with light surface lures, stop and go retrieves, or when bottom
bouncing a jig. Then a harder cast pulls it all off. Fortunately spool
changes are easy.
I'm using a ultralight baitcaster with 5 pound mono to toss a 1/16 oz bullet
weight, 1/0 hook and 4 inch worm, I figure it'll put off surgery for me for
at least 2 years. I've had one already on the left wrist from too much
fishing with the spinning rod.
"ANTIQUE AUDIO" <matthew...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8f38eb91-1094-4849...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Maybe, but I think he would have popped the bail open and taken the
> loose line around the lower unit.
Popping a bail open is something I've never seen in 35 years of spinning.
>I've had Northern that follow hit on
> an L-turn or figure-8 close to the boat, but this wasn't like that. I
> don't know how fast they can swim, but he was really moving parallel to
> the boat and hit at a right angle 3' away. I was wearing polarized
> glasses and saw the flash or I probably would have lost the rod. Not
> real big just ~32" with a bad attitude. IMO the drag on a Calcutta is
> about as good as it gets. My 150 is 5 years old, has taken salmon out
> Lake Michigan, hauled up a 20lb. catfish, numerous Northern, Smallmouth,
> and Largemouth out of the weeds.
My friend has a couple of Calcuttas and likes them a lot, but they're not
unique in their ability to land fish. Of course, baitcasters are better
suited for heavy line.
>If you're getting 100+ loops
>> coming off at once you may be using a line that's too stiff for spinning
>> reels and/or allowing loops to form on the reel spool.
>>
> That may be, but I suspect it may be from not enough tension during the
> retrieve with light surface lures, stop and go retrieves, or when bottom
> bouncing a jig. Then a harder cast pulls it all off. Fortunately spool
> changes are easy.
Sounds possible, maybe likely, but the idea is to maintain tension so as to
avoid the loops and changing of spools.
The first trouble free baitcester I had was an old Black Magnum 100.
After it I picked up a Speedmaster Ultra Light Special, used it with 8
lb line and a light action rod for many years. Besides the Calcutta 150,
I also currently have a Currado 100 on a medium light rod, and it can
handle almost as light a lure as the retired ULS.
Until recently the 200 series Shimano's seem like they've been the most
popular, but with the new superlines becoming more common, the narrow
spool 100's seem to be more common.
one thing I found out, was the best way to pitch/overhead cast a
baitcaster, is turn the reel handle upward- this is something most
fishermen don't tell you, and it's also not in the reel directions-
but it is in any old literature about how to cast with a baitcaster
reel- the difference is remarkable- and I gained another 5 yards
casting distance facing the reel handle up during casting. What this
does is, it places the spool in a verticle position with bearings on
top/bottom during the cast, rather than horizontal. There seems to be
slightly less friction and less backlash, and smoother casting.
I still don't see the logic in using a baitcast reel for fish smaller
than 10 pound though, because the modern large spinning reels will
definitely handle up that that size fish and line with ease- and cast
easier, and further.
But as far as maximum casting distance try this. Take every spinning rod
you have that can handle a 1/8 oz. lure. Tie on a Rapalla #7 original
floating minnow and see how far it goes. Repeat with 1/8 oz. jig, and
with 1/8 oz. spinnerbait with a big Colorado. Or if you want to mix in
baitcasters, try a Rapalla #7 Shallow Shad Rap, a 1/4 oz. jig, and a 1/4
oz. spinnerbait with a big colorado blade. With all but the jig, casting
distance will be limited more by air resistance than anything else.
> I still don't see the logic in using a baitcast reel for fish smaller
> than 10 pound though, because the modern large spinning reels will
> definitely handle up that that size fish and line with ease- and cast
> easier, and further.
Large spinning reels are heavy, bulky, and ungainly. From a retrieve
perspective, the entire design of a spinning reel is a mechanical
nightmare, that unnecessarily takes the energy around two right angles.
If casting distance was of a major advantage in bass angling, there
might be some merit to using big spinning gear. But since it's not, then
there really is no need to burden yourself with a reel that twists the
line, weighs twice as much or more than a casting reel that will do the
job, is out of balance by design, and requires a rod equipped with
gigantic guides.
On the other hand, I love spinning gear for application requiring 6lb
test line or less.
"RichZ" <remove_the_obv...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:GOHsk.18760$9u1....@newsfe09.iad...
>............much great stuff snipped.........
>On the other hand, I love spinning gear for application requiring 6lb
>test line or less.
Rich, once again you've smacked the nail square on the head, knocked
it outa the park, hit the bullseye, scored a hat trick, rolled 300,
gold medaled, etc., etc.
Thanks!
Hate to argue with a guy who's forgotten more than I'll ever know, but:
Maybe there's no NEED to burden myself, but there's a DESIRE to do so. Sure,
reels can twist line, but some reels do much better than others in their
anti-twist properties, and twist has been minimally problematic. And it's a
non-factor with braid.
I believe the weight of the reel is not as significant as baitcasters
because of the inverted position, and the size of the guides doesn't affect
me, as far as I know.
I used to use some baitcasting and it was OK, I just didn't like what I
perceived as less versatility as spinning. And they weren't difficult to
use, not the rocket science that some make it out to be (not including Rich
in that group).
The bottom line is I'm just a recreational angler who enjoys spinning and
feel it accomplishes everything I ask of it.
Spinning fans always rely on this argument, but it's based on faulty
logic, imho. There are precious few moments in fishing in which I hold
the rod on a horizontal plane, other than vertical fishing, which
amounts to less than 10% of my time. In fact, it's attitude is much more
often much closer to vertical than horizontal. All that extra weight is
extended out in front of my hand by the long reel foot, totally
destroying the balance. A casting reel on the other hand, is IN my hand,
and when I hold the rod vertically, all the weight of both the rod and
reel (which is lighter than the spinning combo in the first place) is
pretty much centered above my hand. It's not too bad of a deal with the
little bitty reel on my drop shot rod, but any spinning reel capable of
handling 12 pound line or more is just too awkward and heavy when the
rod is much more vertical than 2 o'clock.
> The bottom line is I'm just a recreational angler who enjoys spinning
and
> feel it accomplishes everything I ask of it.
>
>
And I have no problem with that position at all. My problem is with
no-it-alls who come on stating that there's no use in bass fishing for a
bait casting reel.
Real men use a fly rod? ;-)) I was out fishing yesterday morning, couple
of bass, half dozen pike, nothing really special. Used a baitcaster
never even thinking about it, then I remembered this thread. It's not
rocket science at all, what it's really like is the Shakespeare model
1776 Wonder-reel I had as a kid. Push the button, cast, reel it in.
Caught my first 'northwoods' pike on it also a dogfish on the same day.
Anyone else? I still have it along with the matching Wonder-rod. I think
I'll dig it out, put some line on it and take it fishing this weekend.
LOL, hanging on the wall of my office, I've still got the steel rod and
Pflueger knuckle-buster reel, with braided Dacron line that I learned to
cast with! My dad gave me the rod he had to learn on, we didn't have the
money for one of those new-fangled pushbutton reels!
I prefer my current baitcasters, and like you, fish one without even
thinking about it. I cast as far as I want to, and do it with more accuracy
and ease than I can with a spinning reel.
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com
>
>"AJ" <So...@nomail.com> wrote in message <SNIP>
>>
>> Real men use a fly rod? ;-)) I was out fishing yesterday morning, couple
>> of bass, half dozen pike, nothing really special. Used a baitcaster
>> never even thinking about it, then I remembered this thread. It's not
>> rocket science at all, what it's really like is the Shakespeare model
>> 1776 Wonder-reel I had as a kid. Push the button, cast, reel it in.
>> Caught my first 'northwoods' pike on it also a dogfish on the same day.
>> Anyone else? I still have it along with the matching Wonder-rod. I think
>> I'll dig it out, put some line on it and take it fishing this weekend.
>
>LOL, hanging on the wall of my office, I've still got the steel rod and
>Pflueger knuckle-buster reel, with braided Dacron line that I learned to
>cast with! My dad gave me the rod he had to learn on, we didn't have the
>money for one of those new-fangled pushbutton reels!
>
>I prefer my current baitcasters, and like you, fish one without even
>thinking about it. I cast as far as I want to, and do it with more accuracy
>and ease than I can with a spinning reel.
Oh man----you fellas sure know how to make me feel OLD!!