Wiring an Aluminum Jon Boat ?
Randy Benjamin
As a winter project, I brought my 14 year old Jon boat into the garage to
clean, paint, and generally overhaul it. While working on it, I decided that
this would be great time to rewire all of the electrical devices, (trolling
motor, bilge pump, lights, livewell pump, depth finder, etc.) shorting the
cables and adding off/on switches. With a 12 foot Jon boat, it seems like
I'm always tripping over a wire somewhere.
So I logged onto eBay and found a very nice marine switch panel that has
several switches including a timed on/off switch for the livewell. My
question is, would it be possible with an aluminum boat, to run the
battery's ground cable directly to the boat, and then just use a few "hot"
wires to the 12 volt devices and switches, much as you'd do in an
automobile? This would eliminate running two wires to everything.
There's no high voltage, even when charging, and the aluminum should be an
excellent conductor. It would sure simplify things. Has anyone done this, or
do you think I'm missing something here that would keep this from working or
would cause it to be dangerous?
I appreciate the group, I'm not very active in it, but I've sure learned a
lot by keeping up with it,
Thanks,
Randy Benjamin
George
I don't think you can get around running two wires to each "device". You
should have to only run a 1 hot and 1 ground from your battery to the block
(which in turn will supply all of the fuses). Then run from the fused
swithches to the "devices". And for the record, aluminum is not a conductor of
electricity..... unless it is wet or has a conductive product placed on it.
George
Bucks County, PA
<a href="http://www.911bassanglers.com>911 Bass Anglers</a>
Robert A. Gramza
boat. Even it it were a good idea you would be relying on the rivets or weld
to be good enough to pass current. They do not use aluminum wire any more
due to bi-metal corrosion, and on existing aluminum wire you have to use a
conductive paste. Put in a pair from the panel and common ground to each
device. Don't risk life, limb, or personal safety over some extra wire.
Get the good marine wire by the way. The high strand count gives you a much
more flexible wire, and will keep it from breaking out of your crimps or
connectors.
"Randy Benjamin" <intern...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:v194jg...@corp.supernews.com...
jack schmitt KQ4C
Solder all the connections rather than use crimp-ons and you will save
yourself a bunch of headaches as time passes.
Carlos
"George" <dis...@aol.com.nospam> wrote in message
news:20030102154401...@mb-md.aol.com...
> Randy,
> And for the record, aluminum is not a conductor of
> electricity..... unless it is wet or has a conductive product placed on
it.
>
> George
> Bucks County, PA
> <a href="http://www.911bassanglers.com>911 Bass Anglers</a>
George, you sure about that?
Carlos
Steve Erwin
LOL LOL LOL, and trying to make your boat the undetectable device. I love
it!!!!
"Robert A. Gramza" <bgr...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:143R9.4818$qU5.3...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
Bob La Londe
news:20030102154401...@mb-md.aol.com...
> I don't think you can get around running two wires to each "device". You
> should have to only run a 1 hot and 1 ground from your battery to the block
> (which in turn will supply all of the fuses). Then run from the fused
> swithches to the "devices". And for the record, aluminum is not a conductor
of
> electricity..... unless it is wet or has a conductive product placed on it.
>
In the 60s and 70s a lot of mobile homes were wired with aluminum wire. It did
not work out very well due to the fact that aluminum oxidizes instantly in
contact with air and reacts with most other metals, but it was used as a
conductor.
Most places it is now illegal to even place a mobile that has aluminum wire, and
it is definitely against NEC to use it anymore.
RichG
longer used in house wiring in most locales..there are many hundreds ( if
not thousands ) of houses here in Houston TX that still run with light;
heat; a/c; refrigerators etc. utilizing AL wiring. They have been doing so
for 25 or more years.
A friend sold one of them a few weeks ago, complete with proper electrical
inspection. Yes, there are AL/CO (Aluminum/Copper) special type switches
that are often substituted for the original switches, but thousands of the
original switches and outlets still power those houses. Whoever told you
aluminum is not a conductor (without special coating etc. ) at all...needs
to check a bit further.
All that said, our questioner should be running two wires ( Pos/Neutral)
with pre-tinned; stranded wire to the switch panel.
--
regards, RichG
rgr...@houston.rr.com
"George" <dis...@aol.com.nospam> wrote in message
news:20030102154401...@mb-md.aol.com...
Randy Benjamin
Thanks for the advise. I'll go ahead and run separate wires. It wasn't a big
deal, just thought I'd try something different. I knew I'd seen aluminum
wire before but I didn't think it was as good a conductor as copper.
I'm running the wire through PVC tubing, cut to length, so it will look good
and be out of the way. Soldering sounds like the way to go too. I do a lot
of fishing in this old boat. It will sure be nice to get the wires out of
the way and fused. I've fixed my only leak and painted and waxed the old
boat. It looks like a new one. I'm bringing the trailer in next month for an
overhaul as well.
Thanks for the replys and tips. I really appreciate it.
Randy
RichZ
> I'm running the wire through PVC tubing, cut to length,
>
length of the tube and is not tied or taped into any harnessing you do
where wires come out of the tube. That way, when you inevitably want to add
another wire or need to replace something, you have the cord in place to
pull it through without taking stuff apart. If it's more than twice the
tube's length, you can pull things through in either direction without
pulling the cord OUT, and it will always be there, waiting.
RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing
Dan Krueger
cheap!
Dan
Mike Niemela
We have used PVC and CPVC pipe as wiring conduit for a number of years
on trailers. Recently we have switched to the "plastic" electrical
conduit. Reason being we are able to buy waterproof boxes and other
fittings that are appropriate for wiring rather than plumbing projects.
We have found that difficult corners can be overcome by using lengths of
garden hose that is then clamped to the conduit using hose clamps.
Even with the tough insulation on todays wire we have had cases of wires
shorting inside this conduit. At least they don't go to ground and take
out the whole system. With both positive and negative wires in the
conduit you could have direct shorts. The trick of spraying the wire
with silicone lube as you feed it into the conduit makes it pull in much
easier and also reduces the chafing from vibration.
Don't run transducer or antenna cables in the same conduit as your other
wiring, you MAY pick up noise on the screen/radio.
For the marine application I agree with using the marine rated wire and
soldered joints. Be sure to use the proper solder and flux. I like to
solder, coat with liquid tape and then heat shrink the whole mess.
Best
Mike N
Dan, danl, danny boy, Redbeard, actually Greybeard now
Niemela) sent into the ether:
Hi Mike,
Have you tried the gray plastic electrical conduit that is heat
bendable? I would think that would work better for corners and bends
than hose. I have even seen double bends where it goes around objects
protruding out of a surface. Appears to be good stuff.
danl
Good fishing, great catching
Remove left x for direct reply
RichG
joints. The main thrust of the objections were along the lines of "solder
makes the flexible wire stiff at the joint. This can cause vibration
breakage. "
The apparent reason that most boat wiring is flexible/stranded is to
alleviate the "hard spot" that solder would cause. Additionally, I believe
that solder will melt at the temperature produced by an over-heated (
shorted) 12 v battery wire. I personally can't see a lot of difference
between a crimp-on connection and a soldered connection regarding the "hard
spot".
I CAN see a difference in the melting problem when the wire gets
over-heated. Whose to say if one is better off with a melted joint and
perhaps a blown fuse..., or just a blown fuse ...I guess --just the blown
fuse-- would be my choice. I don't have any experience specifically in
these areas, rather I am simply parroting a lot of stuff I've read and
believe.
--
regards, RichG
rgr...@houston.rr.com
Dan, danl, danny boy, Redbeard, actually Greybeard now
sent into the ether:
That's why I recommend fusing at the source (battery) and the load
(electrical device) It is a little more work, but there is no chance
of wiring starting a fire that way. I also recommend fusing both the
neg and pos lines. When soldering I always use quite a bit of elec
tape and or shrink tube so there is no stress on the solder joint
itself. I also do this when crimping and I only crimp when I am
forced to. I use silicon seal to "water proof" both kinds of joints
if they are exposed to moisture. I know of several 12v lines and
soldered joints in my boat the "Sponge" that routinely are under
water. No breakage from vibration or shorting out due to moisture for
10 years or so now.
Fritz Nordengren
http://www.bateau.com/stores/books/elec_list.html
Especially the 12 Volt Bible for Boats
http://www.bateau.com/stores/books/elec_16_23.html
RichZ
> The apparent reason that most boat wiring is flexible/stranded is to
> alleviate the "hard spot" that solder would cause
>
Every joint of stranded wire in an airplane or spacecraft is soldered.
Solid wire connections, on the other hand are often made with a friction
wrap fit, using a wire wrapping gun.
The "hard spot" to which you refer is called wicking, and is caused by
liquid solder flowing away from the joint and up the wire through capillary
action. Soldering very heavy wires without wicking is very difficult, but
can be done.
Shortly after getting out of high school in the early 60s I was a quality
control and reclamation technician for United Technologies (Norden,
Sikorsky and Hamilton Standard divisions) and actually spent 3 weeks in
NASA soldering school.
Even so, I prefer crimp connectors for stranded wire heavier than 12 gauge.
RichZ©
www.richz.com/fishing
Al J
>
>
> Even so, I prefer crimp connectors for stranded wire heavier than 12 gauge.
>
The local PBS station here has a boat repair show and the guy was using
some kind of marine grade cold-shrink connectors and terminals???
They're pre-filled with dielectric grease and are supposed to be
watertight. I've never seen them in a hardware store...
RichG
wires - 110 volt, but no reason they wouldn't work fine on 12 v. boat
wiring.
--
regards, RichG
rgr...@houston.rr.com
"Al J" <ajs...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1880aa193...@flood.xnet.com...
Richard Rodgers
I know its not the best but my lights are on.
On Thu, 2 Jan 2003 17:06:56 -0600, "Carlos" <k9...@frontiernet.net>
wrote:
Bassman
it as well as copper, but copper doesn't conduct as well as gold either. :)
The one real problem with aluminum wiring is that it tends to expand and
contract with heat and cold, respectively, causing the connections to loosen
and cause arcing. According to "Wiring Simplified", which lists the latest
codes, one fix is to pig-tail a piece of copper wire onto the end of the
aluminum wire and then connect the copper to the switch or whatever. If you
use hook-eyes on to make the connections, you might have to tighten the
screws on aluminum wire every year or two if it is exposed to radical temp
changes like a boat would be.
Bassman
"Richard Rodgers" <rwrodg...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:p1ud1vkiemfpaados...@4ax.com...
Ken
It is my impression that the reasons that aluminum wiring has been
discontinued in most cases is because its tendency for poor connections over
time. The expansion and contraction rate of aluminum is different than the
metals in the screw connections. Therefore, the connections over time would
deteriorate and heat would form at the poor connection. Causing a fire. If
an anti corrosion paste was not used and the specified connection, heat
would form there also.
A licensed electrician or your local fire marshal would be a better source
of information in reference to aluminum wiring in structures.
If nothing else, check all connections where aluminum wiring is used and
make sure that the connections are tight and secure.
Just my $0.02.
Halon
"Richard Rodgers" <rwrodg...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:p1ud1vkiemfpaados...@4ax.com...
Richard Rodgers
You can hear the arc when the connection starts to deteriorate. Then
you remove the switch, clean the connections, apply the paste, and
presto works like new again.
I was responding because of the comment that aluminum does not
conduct.
I would run two wires because of the possibility that the fish could
detect the current in the water. Thus spooking the fish. Of course I
never studied it but the small current running through the boat could
attract fish.
$0.02
Calif Bill
thing in an aluminum boat.
Bill
"Randy Benjamin" <intern...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:v1avof5...@corp.supernews.com...
Bassman
them float to the top. =)
Bassman
"Richard Rodgers" <rwrodg...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:l9ag1vgh1ur7h7jn8...@4ax.com...
>
>... Of course I never studied it but the small current running through the
boat could attract fish.