abu garcia rules
CRUSH77943
over the years ive had theses companies to fail in quality; quantum,shimano and
diawa. The abu garcia ambassadeurs ive had have never fail me. And ive had many
of them. My dad have an abu 5000d, all beat up and scratched, yet it works well
and is smooth as silk. I have a 3500c thats 15yrs old and i use it in
tournaments still today. Abu was the first reel with a star drag that all reels
now copy, they were the first with ultracast and changable spools on
baitcasters that
shimano now copies.
In the 1985 bass masters classic, 48 out of 50 fisherman used abu garcia.
Before Rick clunn, Larry nixon, orlando wilson, roland martin, etc were bought
out by sponsors, they used abu garcia.
Why use a reel made in china or japan when you can have the finest swedish
craftmanship, something to be proud of. Oh yeah, abu also has the world record
long distance cast too.
LKMEYER
I also share your feelings for Abassadeur baitcasters. I've had Diawa's for
years and just this summer put on OLD Abu Ambassadeur 5000 on a rod as a
Carolina rig outfit. I now own two Abu Garcia Ambassadeur 5500-c3's and a
4600-c3. It is now the reel I recommend, especially for someone learning as
they are so easy use with miminal backlash.
LT
Yeah!!!! ABU Garcia forever!!!!!
CRUSH77943 wrote in message
<19980121232...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
G Gonda
No matter what species you are chasing, ABU is the best and most reliable.
G Gonda
LT <linu...@mbox3.singnet.com.sg> wrote in article
<6a6uvr$6tt$1...@columbine.singnet.com.sg>...
Ahti Eric Rovainen
G Gonda (ggo...@dcbnet.com) wrote:
: No matter what species you are chasing, ABU is the best and most reliable.
... if you're using a baitcaster. Abu spinning reels OTOH are notoriously
bad; Shimano spinning reels are much better than Abu-Garcia.
gm
"notoriously bad"? I've been using them for 15 years without a single problem,
been a member of a bass club for nearly ten (with a membership averaging 90 per
year) and never heard anybody complain about them other than they make a little
noise. "Notoriously"? Maybe in your fantasy world!
Kevin Kimura
1/24/98
I agree totally, Abu Garcia is the best value for the money. As a college
student who isn't made out of gold, and as a former worker at a tackle
store in Sacramento, CA I can attest that Abu Garcia is the best all
around reel. The 4600, 5500, and 6500 may not feel as smooth as the
calcutta, or curado, but for the money, they are better. Certainly
"instant" anti reverse is as good as Super Stopper or Continous
Anti-reverse or even Daiwa's Infinite Anti-reverse. Further, the 5500 or
6500 can be used quite well for large Salmon and Stripers, the same cannot
be said for many of the baitcasters provided by Quantum, or Shimano.
Kevin
CRUSH77943
I have used both abu and shimano spinning reels, get a little dirt in the
shimano and its history, the abu will last forever! What happened to Roland
Martin and hid loyalty to shimano? The only reason he use to use shamano was
because they paid him to. Abu
garcia is the best!
Richard Caldwell
In Article Re: abu garcia rules , Kevin Kimura <kmki...@puc.edu> wrote:
> 1/24/98
>
> I agree totally, Abu Garcia is the best value for the money. As a
> college student who isn't made out of gold, and as a former worker at a
> tackle store in Sacramento, CA I can attest that Abu Garcia is the best
> all around reel.
That is arguably true, as long as you like round reels with centrifugal
casting brakes. If you want a low-profile reel or magnetic brakes, you can
forget about ABU-Garcias, unless you want to pay $150 for the T3000C.
> The 4600, 5500, and 6500 may not feel as smooth as the calcutta, or
> curado, but for the money, they are better.
It's generally true that, above a certain threshold price, the law of
diminishing returns applies to virtually *any* product. Therefore, you can
pay twice the money, but not get twice the reel. The threshold price for
baitcasting reels seems to be between $50 and $60 these days.
Fortunately, ABU-Garcia is not the *only* company that makes some good
reels in that price range.
> Certainly "instant" anti reverse is as good as Super Stopper or Continous
> Anti-reverse or even Daiwa's Infinite Anti-reverse.
Since they are all done the same way (a 1-way roller bearing), that
shouldn't be surprising.
> Further, the 5500 or 6500 can be used quite well for large Salmon and
> Stripers, the same cannot be said for many of the baitcasters provided by
> Quantum, or Shimano.
Or, to look at it the other way, Quantum offers a *much* better selection
of sizes. Some of their reels are better for bass fishing, while others,
like the Quantum Iron wide models and the 1420-MG, have the line capacity
for other types of fishing, like catfish, striper, steelhead, salmon, and
even saltwater fishing.
Shimano has only recently responded to this need with the introduction of
its Corsair reels. Time will tell how well these reels compare to the
ABU-Garcias, which have had a virtual monopoly on this market for a long
time.
Good Luck and Good Fishing!
Richard
Richard Caldwell
Now Roland uses SpiderWire and those Mitchell SpiderCast reels. Why?
Because they pay him to. No change, just a different sponsor. Jimmy
Houston is still sponsored by Shimano, so he still uses their reels. The
only lesson from that is that you can't always tell what the pros real
preference is by watching their TV shows, since a lot of them are mostly
info-mercials anyway.
Before David Fritts got his sponsorship from Zebco, what kind of reels did
he use? The same ones that he does now, Lew's BB-1NG's.
> garcia is the best!
Actually, the quality of ABU reels went *down* after they merged with
Garcia. On the other hand, Garcia made some good rods and line, 25 years
ago or so. I still like thier rods, even though they are now owned by OTG
(Berkley). By the way, the quality went down again, after OTG bought them.
I'm glad that they seem to be getting it back to where it ought to be.
I own a Black Max 3600 and a Pro Max 3600. Both are excellent reels, even
though both series have been discontinued.
CRUSH77943
i OWN A FEW ABU garcia low profile reels: 3 gold max sprints,
1 black max, and a few other abu garcia baitcasters.
I LOVE THEM!!!!!! I will never sell or trade them I just found a place in ohio
that has pro max, gold max, lite plus, 521 plus and the 2-speed promax and gold
maxes. After i buy the ones i want with all my imcome tax money$800, i might
post the address, but then again i might not, im sort of selfish when it comes
to getting my
hands on ambassadeurs that have been discontinued, oh well, at least ill be
happy. Abu Garcia rules for ever and ever! they are the alpha and omega of
baitcasters.
Richard Caldwell
In Article Re: abu garcia rules , CRUSH77943 <crush...@aol.com> wrote:
> Path:
> i OWN A FEW ABU garcia low profile reels: 3 gold max sprints,
> 1 black max, and a few other abu garcia baitcasters.
I have never seen a Gold Max baitcaster, only spinning reels. Were they
the predecessors to the Pro Max's?
> I LOVE THEM!!!!!! I will never sell or trade them I just found a place in
> ohio that has pro max, gold max, lite plus, 521 plus and the 2-speed
> promax and gold maxes. After i buy the ones i want with all my imcome tax
> money$800, i might post the address, but then again i might not, im sort
> of selfish when it comes to getting my hands on ambassadeurs that have
> been discontinued, oh well, at least ill be happy. Abu Garcia rules for
> ever and ever! they are the alpha and omega of baitcasters.
If you are looking for good prices on Black Max, Pro Max, and many other of
the ABU-Garcial models, you might try Southwest Parts & Service, in Dallas.
I don't have their number, but you can probably get it from 1-800-555-1212
(the 800 information number).
The last I heard, they had Pro Max's for around $50 and Black Maxes for
around $35. That's a pretty good price for reels that originally sold for
$150 and $90, respectively.
Chris Cook
I have to disagree.I will admit that Abu Garcia makes a good reel,but
not as good as Shimano.Abu Garcia had the reel market for a long
time,but they made no improvements.They did nothing to better their
reels. Now Shimano has taken the market by storm.They have the smoothest
best casting reels today.The reason is that they spent billons of
dollars making a machine to cut their gears. No other company is willing
to pay that kind of money on a machine.So, as of now Shimano has the
best reels.Abu Garcia is tring to match Shimano with their Morrum series
reels,but no one is going to pay $200 for that when you can get a
Calcutta for $160.
E-mail me your opions--...@wedtv.net
CHRI$
Rich Burke
I agree with Chris.
I have had Abu Garcia, Diawa, Quantum, & Shimano reels. Shimano is
the best reel for the money.
Rich Burke.
Chris Cook wrote in message
<6amh2g$3ap$1...@newsd-112.bryant.webtv.net>...
CRUSH77943
shimano did not pay billions of dollars for anything. Do you realize how much
money 1 billion dollars is? This isnt the automobile industry here, we are
talking fishing reels! I admit the calcutta is an awesome reel, but a 10 year
old ambassadeur is just as smooth, now match a 10 year old shimano up against a
10 year old ambassadeur, i dont ever know of anyone who has any old shimano's.
Abu garcia is the best there ever was, the best there is, and the best there
ever will be! Oh yea, and shimano's calcutta is proof of one thing; "
ambassadeur is often imitated, but never duplicated" ABU GARCIA RULES!
Native
Well I have an old Shimano Batam SG that I believe is from the early
80's. Someone feel free to correct me. But any way, I'm sure it is
more that 10 years old and still as smooth as ice. I have 3 ABU's
also. 4500C from '77, a 5000B from ?, and a early Ambassadeur with mag
cast control. I like them all, but I was more impressed with Shimano
internal construction.
If it feels good, works good... its good!
Brian
James Beck
James Beck wrote:
Crush, if you're ego hasn't been crushed enough I would also like to
agree with all of the other people supporting Shimano. Your argument
about reels ten years old is absurd. Why would the past matter one
bit?? Supposing Abu Garcia made the best reels 10 years ago who cares?
I dont fish with a ten year old reel and if you do you must either be
piss poor or else stuck in the stone age. Not only can you argue that
the Shimano Calcutta feels better, but you can also support the argument
by their precision cut gears. I have owned three abu garcia reels and
all three, along with two other friends have had the same reoccuring
problems. The truth is something you have to be willing to accept and I
am afraid that you are not willing to accept it.
Check out my reel, rod, and tackle reviews at
http://www-scf.usc.edu/~jbeck/fishing.html
Fish On!, with the Calcutta of course
James Beck
jb...@scf.usc.edu
James Beck
CRUSH77943 wrote:
>
> i OWN A FEW ABU garcia low profile reels: 3 gold max sprints,
> 1 black max, and a few other abu garcia baitcasters.
> that has pro max, gold max, lite plus, 521 plus and the 2-speed promax and gold
> maxes. After i buy the ones i want with all my imcome tax money$800, i might
> post the address, but then again i might not, im sort of selfish when it comes
> to getting my
> hands on ambassadeurs that have been discontinued, oh well, at least ill be
> happy. Abu Garcia rules for ever and ever! they are the alpha and omega of
> baitcasters.
James Beck wrote:
Richard Caldwell
In Article Re: abu garcia rules , CRUSH77943 <crush...@aol.com> wrote:
> shimano did not pay billions of dollars for anything.
Oh? Do you keep their books for them?
> Do you realize how much money 1 billion dollars is?
Yup. It's almost enough to pay off all my bills. d8-]
> This isnt the automobile industry here, we are talking fishing reels!
I would certainly *hope* so, since this is a fishing newsgroup. However,
you need to understand that Shimano makes *much* more than just fishing
reels and a computer controlled milling machine can make gears for all
sorts of things, not just fishing reels.
> I admit the calcutta is an awesome reel,
Arguably the best baitcasting reel made today.
> but a 10 year old ambassadeur is just as smooth,
That depends a lot on which Ambassadeur you are talking about. I own an
Ambassadeur Black Max 3600 and a Pro Max 3600. Both of these reels are
*much* smoother than the regular Ambassedeur 4600/500/5500 series. I even
think they are as smooth as my Calcutta, but I don't know if they are as
rugged or not, yet.
> now match a 10 year old shimano up against a 10 year old ambassadeur,
Again, there are many models of Shimanos and many models of Ambassadeurs,
and it makes a *big* difference which models you are talking about. I
think that if you ask the pros who fish 100 days or more a year, they will
tell you that Calcuttas stand up to heavy use as well as any reel ever
made.
> i dont ever know of anyone who has any old shimano's.
I'm not sure when Shimano first started making reels. It was certainly
well after ABU started, and possibly after ABU's merger with Garcia, but
before OTG (Berkley) bought out ABU-Garcia. Unfortunately, the quality of
the Ambassadeur reels went *down* after both of these mergers. I hope they
have turned that trend around and are making better reels now.
Shimano made the first Lew's Speed Spool reels, before they were selling
under their own name, and before the Lew's contract went to Ryobi. I know
some guys who have some of those old Lew's Speed Spools (with the Shimano
logo on the bottome of the reel-foot), and they won't let them go at *any*
price. They consider them to be *much* better than any of the Lew's reels
made since by Ryobi or Zebco.
> Abu garcia is the best there ever was, the best there is, and the best
> there ever will be!
Yeah, and the Dallas Cowboys will *always* be the best NFL team. d8-]
> Oh yea, and shimano's calcutta is proof of one thing; "
> ambassadeur is often imitated, but never duplicated" ABU GARCIA RULES!
Actually, one of ABU-Garcia's first imitators was Daiwa, with their
Millionaire series. But Daiwa improved on the original design by adding
ball bearings and higher gear ratios, which forced ABU to follow suite with
the model 5500, which was ABU's first model with ball bearings and a 5:1
gear ratio and was an obvious copy of the Daiwa Millionaire.
Years later, Shimano introduced the Calcutta, which kicked ABU-Garcia's
(and everyone else's) butt and forced ABU-Garcia to come out with the Black
Max and Pro Max, which were copies of the Calcutta, but with more ball
bearings. They are still trying to compete with the Calcutta with the
latest Tournament series reels and the Morrum. I hope they keep trying.
Competition is good for the business *and* us customers.
Also, the successful low-profile models of Daiwa, Shimano, Ryobi, and
Quantum forced ABU-Garcia to come out with their own copies of these reels.
So, when it comes to imitating others, ABU-Garcia has been doing as much of
it as anyone else over the years. However, I think we can award the latest
prize in the "Imitation is the highest form of flattery" department to
ABU-Garcia. Shimano's newest models, the Corsairs, appear to be pretty
close imitators of the Ambassadeur 5500/6500 series.
The problem with ABU-Garcia is that the controlled the market for so long
that they became complacent. When new, hungry companies, like Daiwa,
Shimano, and Quantum (Zebco) came along, they didn't react quickly and
aggressively enough and got passed up, both in quality and in quantity of
sales. But, they eventually woke up and smelled the stinkbait and are
trying hard to compete again, which is good.
ABU made some *very* good reels, 30 or 40 years ago. But time never stands
still. Since ABU-Garcia is now American owned, I hope that they and Zebco
continue their current trend of improvement until they have attained
dominance of the fishing tackle industry in both quality and quantity.
In fact, I think they have both beaten out Daiwa in recent years, IMHO.
Now there is just Shimano to chase. I wonder if Shimano will become
complacent in their position, or will continue to improve/expand their
product line. So far, they show no signs of resting on their laurels.
Anyhoo, the next few years should be fun ones for the fishing tackle
industry. d8-]
CRUSH77943
Well to begin with, i own about 10 ambassadeurs, old and new.
Shimano has never had a lifetime warrenty on any of there reels, if they did
they would go out of business. Where did the calcuttas
round design come from?
Where did the curados changable spool design cime from? It came from abu
garcias designs. PLUS ABU GARCIA STILL HOLDS THE RECORD FOR LONGEST CAST EVER
MADE!
Plus swedish craftmanship is famous, not sweat-shop asian stuff.
a $59 ambassadeur wil out last and outcast any shimano anytime!
HERE ARE A LIST OF IDEAS OTHE CO. HAVE
"BORROWED" FROM ABU GARCIA:
1. Round design
2. Star drag
3. Centifugal braking system
4. Utra cast spool design
5. Changable spool design
In 1990 when abu garcia came out with the promax 5600, all co. just about
came out with a copy-cat version, these co. are:
1. Shimano
2. Bass Pro shops
3. Quantum
4. Pinnacle
5. Mitchel
6. Lews
7. Browning
Where would all of these other companies be without stealing ideas from
abu garcia?
" often immitated but never duplicated"
Richard Caldwell
In Article Re: abu garcia rules , CRUSH77943 <crush...@aol.com> wrote:
> Well to begin with, i own about 10 ambassadeurs, old and new.
Good for you. How many Shimano, Daiwa, Quantum, or other brands of reels
do you own? If you feel qualified to compare them, don't you think you
should have actually *tried* the others first? d8-]
> Shimano has never had a lifetime warrenty on any of there reels, if they
> did they would go out of business.
Are you saying that ABU-Garcia, or anyone else *does* have a lifetime
warranty? If they do, I've never seen one. Zebco used to rebuild any
model 33 you sent them, for $1, when I was a kid. I figure that's about as
close to a lifetime warranty as you can get.
> Where did the calcuttas round design come from?
Where did *all* baitcasters get their round design? It *certainly* started
*long* before the Swedish "Clock Factory Incorporated" (that's what ABU
stands for, in Swedish) started building fishing reels.
> Where did the curados changable spool design cime from? It came from abu
> garcias designs.
And from *all* the baitcasting reels that have changeable spools for many
years. I don't know if ABU was the first to make them, but by the late
80's, when the Curado was first introduced, it was pretty much a universal
feature on *all* baitcasters, not just ABU-Garcias.
> PLUS ABU GARCIA STILL HOLDS THE RECORD FOR LONGEST CAST EVER MADE!
ABU-Garcia *and* whoever did the casting. A special reel, specially tuned
for distance casting, and never intended to be used for fishing can make
*very* long casts, but it's not very relevant to my needs as an angler.
> Plus swedish craftmanship is famous, not sweat-shop asian stuff.
I guess you've never visited a Shimano factory, huh? The "sweat shops"
have moved to China, Mexico, and other places. Swedish craftsmanship may
be famous, but lower QC standards and cheaper materials can hurt *any*
reel, nomatter *where* it's made.
> a $59 ambassadeur wil out last and outcast any shimano anytime!
That's just plain bullshit, and you know it. There is more variation
between individual reels than between different brands of reels. I have
worked on Ambassadeur 4600/5000/5500's that were *very* smooth, and others
that were *very* rough. The old ones (pre Garcia) outlasted the ones made
after the merger, in general. There are people who still comb the garage
sales and pawn shops for pre-merger ABU's.
I do agree that, for $59, an Ambassadeur 5500 is more reel-for-the-money
than a $150 Shimano. I have stated that opinion more than once.
> HERE ARE A LIST OF IDEAS OTHE CO. HAVE
> "BORROWED" FROM ABU GARCIA:
>
> 1. Round design
Pre-dates ABU reels by *many* years.
> 2. Star drag
Saltwater reels had them *long* before ABU reels.
> 3. Centifugal braking system
I'm not sure, but I'll give you that one.
> 4. Utra cast spool design
Nobody else makes the "Ultra Cast" design, so I don't think you can say
it's beeing copied.
> 5. Changable spool design
I'm not sure who did this first, but *everyone* does it now, so a new reel
that has it is copying the entire market, not just ABU-Garcia.
> In 1990 when abu garcia came out with the promax 5600, all co. just about
> came out with a copy-cat version, these co. are:
The Pro Max was discontinued in 1995 because their early troubles with QC
caused the reel to have a bad reputation. Even though the problems had
been fixed, they couldn't sell them any more. It was replaced by the "SM"
series, which was discontinued a couple years later.
I have a Pro Max 3600 that I like a lot. It was rebuilt by Southwest Parts
& Service, in Dallas, to correct the original problems.
> 1. Shimano
The Pro-Max was a *copy* of Shimano's Calcutta.
> 2. Bass Pro shops
BPS just sells the Pinnacle, with a different label.
> 3. Quantum
The Quantum Tour reels are copies of the Shimano Calcutta, not the Pro Max.
> 4. Pinnacle
The Pinnacle is made by Silstar, which is a Korean company that is famous
for copying other companies.
> 5. Mitchel
That's "Mitchell", and they have only recently introduced a cheap, round
reel. Their best selling reel is the Spidercast baitcaster, which is
shaped more like the early Shimano/Ryobi reels.
> 6. Lews
> 7. Browning
Lew's/Browning was bought by Zebco a few years ago. The round models with
these names on them are just Quantum Iron reels with different paint jobs,
handles, and labels.
> Where would all of these other companies be without stealing ideas
> from abu garcia?
About where they are, outselling ABU-Garcia in their selected niches of the
market.
> " often immitated but never duplicated"
You seem to think that ABU invented the concept of the round baitcatsing
reel. They didn't. They copied it off of the old Shakespeares and other
baitcasting reels that came before them. They may have invented the
centrifugal casting brake, or may not. I'm not sure who did that one. The
point is that, just because they were the first reel that *you* ever saw
with these features, doesn't mean that they were the first to make them.
Another important feature that you don't mention is the level-wind. I
don't know who made the first one of those either, but that's at least as
important as the casting brake in the evolution of baitcasters.
Here are a few features that ABU/ABU-Garcia has copied off of other reels,
and one or two that they *should* copy, but haven't.
1. Ball bearings - from the Daiwa Millionaire.
2. Higher gear ratios - from the Daiwa Millionaire.
3. Single-grip handle - from the Daiwa Millionaire, later dropped.
4. Low-profile design - from the Japanese companies.
5. One-piece, cast aluminum frame - from the Shimano Calcutta.
6. Magnetic casting brake (on low-profile models) - from Daiwa/Ryobi.
7. Variable centrifugal brake - A-G doesn't make them, but they should.
The lesson ..., these companies *all* copy good ideas from each other, if
they can without patent infringement. ABU-Garcia is certainly not above
copying others.
ABU was once the benchmark of freshwater baitcasting reels, just as the
Mitchell 300 was the benchmark of spinning reels. Both of these reels and
companies have been merged/sold over the years and, along the way, they
have lost their dominant position in the market.
ABU-Garcia still makes some *very* good reels, especially for the money.
But they don't make the best reels available today, and haven't for years.
Perhaps the new Morrum reels will recapture the "best reel made" title for
them, I don't know. I do know that, at $200 a pop, there won't be many
anglers who can afford to try one out. d8-]
LT
I own 15 Ambassadeurs of various vintages and I must say that the smoothest
of these are the new 2500Ci and 4600UC. They are so well made that it is
impossible to backlash with them. I had a couple of Calcuttas once but sold
them off when I realised that the levelwind remained in postion when casting
and when line was pulled off against the drag. This stationary levelwind
mechanism messes up the even laying of the line and this creates a very
sticky drag when the line is coming off one side of the spool and the
levelwind is on the other side - a totally unacceptable situation. The
constant levelwinds on the ABUs negate this problem.
They may not be everyones' choice but for me ABUs are the ONLY way to go.
Richard Caldwell
In Article Re: abu garcia rules , LT <linu...@mbox3.singnet.com.sg> wrote:
> I own 15 Ambassadeurs of various vintages and I must say that the
> smoothest of these are the new 2500Ci and 4600UC.
Unfortunately, I believe the Ci series has been discontinued.
> They are so well made that it is impossible to backlash with them.
That's really not a function of the reel's quality, unless it is combined
with the ability to make long casts. Most reels will make backlashes
*virtually* impossible, if you set their casting brakes at the maximum
setting. However, this limits casting distance.
> I had a couple of Calcuttas once but sold them off when I realised that
> the levelwind remained in postion when casting and when line was pulled
> off against the drag. This stationary levelwind mechanism messes up the
> even laying of the line and this creates a very sticky drag when the line
> is coming off one side of the spool and the levelwind is on the other
> side - a totally unacceptable situation. The constant levelwinds on the
> ABUs negate this problem.
Actually, the "constant levelwinds", as you call them were the only kind
there were for many years. This limits casting distance by forcing the
spool to turn the level-wind while the line is going out. Some reel
manufacturers discovered that, by disengaging the level-wind when you push
the casting button, the spool becomes freer and casts become longer.
Obviously, there is a tradeoff. However, ABU-Garcia must think that the
newer design has some merit, because the level-wind disengages when casting
for both my Black Max 3600 and Pro Max 3600. (This was *not* the case on my
Black Max 5600, when I had one.) On the other hand, it does *not* remain
stationary when the drag is slipping and neither does the level-wind on my
other reels that work that way. So, the situation is not quite as
black/white as you describe it to be.
> They may not be everyones' choice but for me ABUs are the ONLY way to go.
They are definitely good reels, especially for the money, and probably have
as many dedicated customers as any company in the fishing tackle business.
CHAR36
I have two garcia 5000's and one 5600 that are mid 60's ventage. I've never
had a failure. The quality and durability is definately there. As far as
centrifugal versus magnetic drag, I can't really see that much difference (I'm
comparing to my shimano).