Tent Vs. Bivvy Bag for bike touring
David Weingarten
Howdy! I've got a question for anybody with any experience in
bike-touring, backpacking, extended camping, etc. I'm particularly
looking for folks who have experience with bivouac bags.
I'm hoping to go on an extended bike tour in the near future. I have
a Kona mountain bike, which I have outfitted with a good rack and fairly
sizable panniers. I bought a tent recently, but I'm not entirely happy
with it. I tried to get a nice, lightweight tent, but the trouble is
that almost all the lightweight tents I've found are NOT freestanding;
they MUST be staked in. I didn't think this would be a problem, but
I've camped in my tent three times now, and have had a problem staking
it in every time. The ground is almost always too rocky. I read a
book on bike touring that recommended bivvy bags as an alternative to
a one-person tent (I will be doing this trip entirely solo), because
they're so light and compact. I've seen a couple nice bivvy bags that
have a lightweight pole and netting which gives you some space at the
head end. Unfortunately, when I asked about them at REI, the person
I spoke with said that they are really NOT a good alternative, because
you inevitably get condensation on the inside of the bag. He said that,
because the temperature gradient from your body to the outside is so
abrupt, that you are bound to get moisture on your bag, even though the
bivvy bags are made out of Gore-Tex, which is supposed to be breathable.
I'm hoping to do a lot of my touring out in the Willamette National
Forest. I've driven out there and camped a couple times, and while
it's not too hard to find a place to throw down a tent, it is quite
difficult to find a place that's not too rocky for stakes. I was
figuring that the bivvy bags would be great, because I could just
throw it down "wherever" and camp. I figured that I'd throw down one
tarp for ground cover and, if there were a place to tie it, I'd tie
another tarp above me for rain protection. You can get these great
combination space-blanket/tarps for $10 at REI which I think would serve
this purpose well. (I already have one for ground cover, and it works
great. I figured I'd buy another one for an overhead tarp.)
Any opinions? (Incidentally, the reason I'm posting this to the off-road
biking groups is that the Willamette National Forest is almost all gravel
or dirt roads, some of which are closed to cars because of mudslides
over the roads; so, it's not ENTIRELY mis-cross-posted. :) )
Thanks in advance,
-- David
cyli
If your bag is synthetic, a bit of moisture isn't going to do any harm.
If it's down, it will to a degree variable on temp and humidity and
stuff. He's probably thinking in terms of down bags, because they're a
tad lighter weight and assumed (or asked your kind) that's what you'd be
using. Some of that moisture will be coming from your breath and there's
just no way to avoid that. You get some even in a tent, though it's less
noticable.
--
"If I die of curiosity, who will entertain you with naive questions?"
I only answer my mail on an average of once every two months. Be
patient.
JonDax
I agree with what the REI guy told you about the bags. Also, I felt a
little claustraphobic when I used one. A tent also has an advantage in
that you can use it to change clothes in if you have to. I got a Sierra
Designs Clip Flashlight tent which is a very compact, lightweight two
person tent, which I used by myself on a long tour. Easy to set up if you
can get the stakes in, which I didn't seem to have much trouble. I went
for the two person so I could have some breathing room. It only weighs a
little under two lbs., and I really like it. I would see if you have any
friends with the bivvy bag so you can give it a try for yourself.
Have fun,
JD
In article <52af69$k...@pith.uoregon.edu>, dav...@inferno.uoregon.edu
(David Weingarten) wrote:
lnr...@azstarnet.com
dav...@inferno.uoregon.edu (David Weingarten) wrote:
>Howdy! I've got a question for anybody with any experience in
>bike-touring, backpacking, extended camping, etc. I'm particularly
>looking for folks who have experience with bivouac bags.
<For brevity's sake, the rest of the post was snipped.>
When I first began bike touring back in the early 1980s, I tried a
bivvy bag. I quickly realized why most of the other bike tourists were
using tents. The bivvy bag was good for very little except inducing
claustrophobia, which in turn deprived the occupant of a good night's
sleep.
I have since tried several tents, and here are my thoughts on them:
1. Bibler Solo tent. Good for keeping you warm, but not so hot for
keeping you dry. (Yes, I did seam-seal it!)
2. Sierra Designs Flashlight. Better in the dryness department, but
not perfect. (I guess no tent is...)
3. Major credit card. Works best when indoor shelter is readily
available <g>.
Martha J. Retallick, lnr...@azstarnet.com
Ride The Bike Path: http://www.azstarnet.com/~lnrider/bikepath.htm
Henry Dan Lambright
I've had some pretty bad experiences with bivvy sacks which sound like
what that guy from REI was talking about. Maybe the one I bought was
cheap, but I'd wake up in the morning *soaked* from condensation. It was
so awful I ended up buying a tent (I was on a long cycle tour at the time)
and never regretted it. In my opinion this is one piece of equipment
thats definately worth shelling out the bucks for..
As for the difficulty in finding a place to put your stakes into the
ground.. I guess I've always been able to grab a nearby rock and force
them into the earth with effort. Some places are harder then others but
I've always gotten the tent up eventually even in some pretty rocky areas.
> David Weingarten wrote:
> >
> > Howdy! I've got a question for anybody with any experience in
> > bike-touring, backpacking, extended camping, etc. I'm particularly
> > looking for folks who have experience with bivouac bags.
> >
LocoFoto
dav...@inferno.uoregon.edu (David Weingarten) wrote:
>Howdy! I've got a question for anybody with any experience in
>bike-touring, backpacking, extended camping, etc. I'm particularly
>looking for folks who have experience with bivouac bags.
I've found that a goretex bivy works well, but I still feel like I need a
tarp over it to keep my gear dry, and let me open up a bit for
ventilation. So if I have a tarp, I don't need the bivy, just a
groundcloth.
Still, a tarp needs to be staked, so you'll have the same problem with
rocky ground. BTW, I'm talking about a large, coated nylon fly-type tarp,
about 9x9 or 10x10.
cheers,
Ken
John Milton
David Weingarten (dav...@inferno.uoregon.edu) wrote:
<Snip>:I figured that I'd throw down one
: tarp for ground cover and, if there were a place to tie it, I'd tie
: another tarp above me for rain protection. You can get these great
: combination space-blanket/tarps for $10 at REI which I think would serve
: this purpose well. (I already have one for ground cover, and it works
: great. I figured I'd buy another one for an overhead tarp.)
This system works quite well if you have sufficient trees to tie your
roof tarp to, if you need to rely on pegging the tarp down then obviously
you are in the same bind as with your tent, As well as the condensation
problems I find Bivy sacks just too small to be practical. The major
problem with the tarp system is lack of insect protection. I would
suggest getting a good bug net {hard to find around here, try army
surplus stores} and sew in hanging loops for it on the inside surface of
your roof tarp to attach it to. (Don't forget to seam seal the stiching
where you do this) One of the major advantages of the tarp system is that
you can create large shelters without paying much cash and with very
little weight compared to a full tent, so don't skimp on the size of the
roof
--
G Brown
Any body try the 1 person tents like Ureka? They make a tent with a
mosquito netting roof and a rainfly one can pull over the netting. At 2
lbs., it might be good for solo trips, but it might be claustophobic.
Bigger than a bivy, smaller than a 2 person tent.
--
gbr...@va.med.umich.edu <--real addr
Larry Von Moss
dav...@inferno.uoregon.edu (David Weingarten) wrote:
>sizable panniers. I bought a tent recently, but I'm not entirely happy
>with it. I tried to get a nice, lightweight tent, but the trouble is
>that almost all the lightweight tents I've found are NOT freestanding;
>they MUST be staked in. I didn't think this would be a problem, but
>I've camped in my tent three times now, and have had a problem staking
>it in every time. The ground is almost always too rocky.
Check out the lightweight tents from North Face. They are
freestanding. The whole thing in the stuff sack (tent, poles, fly)
weighs 4 pounds. The poles stay attached to the tent so you never
have to rethread them when setting it up. Sleeps one comfortably, two
in a pinch.
The model I bought was called the Tadpole, though I believe they
recently renamed it, even though it is essentially the same tent.
Larry Von Moss
Kirk Mueller
In article <jonathan_dachs-...@blv-pm2-ip21.halcyon.com>,
jonatha...@appart.com (JonDax) wrote:
> Snip . . .
> > I'm hoping to go on an extended bike tour in the near future.
> > . . . . .Snip . . . . I bought a tent recently, but I'm not entirely happy
> > with it. I tried to get a nice, lightweight tent, but the trouble is
> > that almost all the lightweight tents I've found are NOT freestanding;
> > they MUST be staked in. I didn't think this would be a problem, but
> > I've camped in my tent three times now, and have had a problem staking
> > it in every time. The ground is almost always too rocky. . . . Snip . . .
You might consider buying aftermarket tent stakes. I bought those
$2.50 each high tech tent stakes (2024-T3 aluminum tubing with formed
pointed ends). They're very expensive but worth it. Provided I avoid the
obvious rocks, they always have gone into the ground OK. The wimpy stakes
provided with most tents bend extremely easily.
Take a look at the Hughes Hiking Club if you live in the Southern
California area. Our URL is:
http://home.earthlink.net/~kirkm2506/Hiking.html
Kirk Mueller
kdmu...@ccgate.hac.com (310)334-2586
Hughes Aircraft Co., Radar and Communications Sector
El Segundo, CA USA
--- All comments are strictly my own. I believe they're accurate,
but disclaim responsibility if I happen to be in error. ---
Darrell Noakes
David Weingarten wrote:
>
> Howdy! I've got a question for anybody with any experience in
> bike-touring, backpacking, extended camping, etc. I'm particularly
> looking for folks who have experience with bivouac bags.
>
corner of the basement and just used a lightweight (950 g) bivvy bag for
touring. I think it's terrific, even if many of my cycling companions
disagree. I find that a small, light tarp suspended overhead reduces
condensation. Mostly, though, I prefer to be able to wake up during the
night to peer up at the stars through the mosquito netting on the bag
and then thoroughly dry my sleeping bag and bivvy bag in the sun before
packing at the start of the next day's ride.
Terry Rau
I have know clue about bivvy bag, but I bought this cheap bike tent from
target ( don't laugh it works ). but you don't need stakes, but you can
use them it you want. So times i don't even use the because the tent
just sits up on it own. I called something like High Sierra bike tent,
this was about 5 years ago. So I don't know if they still sell them.
Price is right for about 20 or 30 bones. also the inner part can be
sperated for the outter shell. just use the outter part for wind brake.
when the inner part is in place you have about a 4-5 in air gap between
the two. I take a little tarp to lay down and put the tent on top to
protect from rocks and stuff. It takes about 10 sec to set up to. it has
like these spring load rods that you have to push together, when there
all together the tent just pops up like a little dome without stakes,
plus it fits two people if you want. never had problems with
condensation. it pretty compacted about 12in long 6 in diameter. I
bought it in Washington. good luck if you can find it.
Brett Buckingham
Unless you are very very concerned about weight / pack space, consider
a good 2 person freestanding tent. I have a Kelty Vortex 2, which is
very comfortable with 1 or 2 in the tent, sets up in about 30 secs,
and has room for my stuff either inside or under the rain fly. About
5 lbs with fly, and packs small enough to be easily packed on a bike.
Also don't need a second tent for car camping.
Get a good tent, taped seams, rain fly, aluminum poles - you won't
regret it. Check out some specs on the web.
--
R. Brett Buckingham
Nortel Ltd., Ottawa, CANADA
bre...@nortel.ca
Paul
dav...@inferno.uoregon.edu (David Weingarten) wrote:
>Howdy! I've got a question for anybody with any experience in
>bike-touring, backpacking, extended camping, etc. I'm particularly
>looking for folks who have experience with bivouac bags.
>
I have no experience with bivy bags, the thought of being in something so
small makes my skin crawl. My preference is a two man tent even though
its usually just me. I like to have room to spread out and I like the
fact I don't have to worry about the wind blowing rain in under by tarp.
I have a great tent it is made by Quick Tent. Its a free standing dome
tent that is easy to set up, lightweight, full coverage rain fly. This
tent has been wonderful, it has good ventilation, it keeps me dry and the
bugs out, three things I need so I can sleep. Quick Tent has a website
http://onlinecol.com/sd/qui/025.html if you are interested.
Good luck
Paul
Linda Foskey
David,
I recently did a short 4WD tour of Western Australia. Instead of using tents, they gave us each a
canvas swag (bivvy bag). It contained a thin foam mattress, a slim pillow and our sleeping bags
and rolled up to the size of a medium sized tent.
The first night it was cool and dewy and when I woke in the morning the outside of my swag was
damp, but I was dry on the inside. I don't know how it would go in the rain though!
Linda
Armidale, Australia
in the other New England!
John
The way I see it, you probably want a tent to keep your bike in. I just
bought a macpac Microlight at 1.7kg weight. Idea for MTBing. It's a 1 man
tent with enough room for the bike in the vesiblue when you take the
wheels off. It depends whether you feel the need to sleep with your bike,
I think. A bivvy bag is abviously going to be lihgter in the extreme.
Regards,
John
drg...@coral.llnl.gov
In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.960927...@hammer.thor.cam.ac.uk>, John <jm...@thor.cam.ac.uk> writes:
|>
|> The way I see it, you probably want a tent to keep your bike in. I just
|> bought a macpac Microlight at 1.7kg weight. Idea for MTBing. It's a 1 man
|> tent with enough room for the bike in the vesiblue when you take the
|> wheels off. It depends whether you feel the need to sleep with your bike,
|> I think. A bivvy bag is abviously going to be lihgter in the extreme.
I just take a very lightweight piece of plastic--a cheapo disposable
drop cloth works great--a drape it over the bike(s) at night.
-Peter
Tom Mish
JonDax wrote:
>
> I agree with what the REI guy told you about the bags. Also, I felt a
> little claustraphobic when I used one. A tent also has an advantage in
> that you can use it to change clothes in if you have to. I got a Sierra
> Designs Clip Flashlight tent which is a very compact, lightweight two
> person tent, which I used by myself on a long tour. Easy to set up if you
> can get the stakes in, which I didn't seem to have much trouble. I went
> for the two person so I could have some breathing room. It only weighs a
I too have a Flashlight by Sierra Designs. It was purchased specifically
for bike camping. I found it's size very comfortble for 1 + gear in the
tent. For two it was a bit crowded for extended trips. After getting
married I ended up getting the 3-person version of the tent. It's
plenty big for two people for extended trips, and only slightly heavier
(check the literature for specs.). The larger version has even better
ventilation than the 2-person with considerably more headroom at the
fron of the tent. I also purchased an "attic" for the tent and found
that for extended trips canoeing and/or car camping that the attic
was a terribly useful feature.
My only complaint is that it isn't a freestanding tent. However, it's
fairly easy to rig in light weather with just a couple of big rocks
if you can't drive stakes in anywhere...
-- TM
----------------------------------------------------------------
System Consultant mi...@biostat.wisc.edu
Dept. of Biostatistics http://www.biostat.wisc.edu/~mish
Medical Informatics (608)265-3712
UW-Madison FAX:(608)263-0415
Peter D Norquist
For touring, backpacking and climbing, I use an Outdoor Research Gore-tex
bivy that has two small poles. I've used it in all seasons and so
far in 3 years, it hasn't leaked or given me any problems whatsoever.
An easy modification to your tent would be to tie loops of bungee cord
at your tent's tie down points, making each loop about 12 inches in
circumference. If you camp somewhere that's too rocky to put down tent
stakes, you can put the stretchy bungee loops around large rocks,
downed tree trunks, etc. I use this technique all the time with my
non-freestanding tents and have never had a problem with it. Sometimes
one needs to get creative about things to lasso but I've always managed
to find *something* to make it work.
-Peter
Sandy and John
I have never used a bivy sack but personally I like to have a place to get
inside of when I'm touring. Sometimes it is necessary to cook in out of the
weather and there are always the considerations of flying creatures and
privacy.
David Weingarten <dav...@inferno.uoregon.edu> wrote in article
<52af69$k...@pith.uoregon.edu>...
> anybody with any experience in
> bike-touring, backpacking, extended camping, etc.
David Weingarten
Sandy and John (san...@northcoast.com) wrote:
: I have never used a bivy sack but personally I like to have a place to get
: inside of when I'm touring. Sometimes it is necessary to cook in out of the
: weather and there are always the considerations of flying creatures and
I don't suppose you read the directions on the stoves that say
"do not use in inclosed spaces"? Just curious...
-- David
John
I wouldn't leave my 2500 ukp bike outside my tent - not in a camp site
that is. If I was far away from anywhere, I wouldn't be so bothered.
John
----
John Appleby, Two wheels,
Cambridge University, Two skis -
UK. Whatever.
Wilfried Braakhuis
spam...@address.goes.here--see.below (G Brown) wrote:
>--
>gbr...@va.med.umich.edu <--real addr
On my biking trips, I used the Eureka gossamer successful,
244x82cm,weight 1250gramme,aluminium sticks, a few tent-pegs.
Within a few minutes pitched and take down,indeed you catch
claustrophobia,barring this I sleep the sleep of the just, indeed like
a log.The little package takes up no room,this 1 person tent seem to
be not good for windy spots,at the front hard wind can make trouble.
The only step you should ever
==========================================
Wilfried Braakhuis,Netherlands
http://web.inter.nl.net/users/W.Braakhuis
===========================================
leave on the beach are your footsteps
Niklas Ingvar-Nilsson
I have rather good experience of Sierra Designs Tiros pro. Its a frestanding
tent for "two" persons but I find it quite comfortable for a single person.
It got plenty of space and it got separated inner and outertents that is good
of several reasons. It make it easier so separate it in stuffbags, if no rain
in sight then only put up the innertent (no sauna-effekt in the mornings). it
is rathe windstable. It is not incredible light (3,4 kg) and the absids could
be bigger but i am rather pleast with it.
Niklas ingvar-Nilsson <b0nikingulmo.stud.slu.se>
In article <52af69$k...@pith.uoregon.edu>, dav...@inferno.uoregon.edu says...
Howdy! I've got a question for anybody with any experience in
bike-touring, backpacking, extended camping, etc. I'm particularly
looking for folks who have experience with bivouac bags.
I'm hoping to go on an extended bike tour in the near future. I have
a Kona mountain bike, which I have outfitted with a good rack and fairly
sizable panniers. I bought a tent recently, but I'm not entirely happy
with it. I tried to get a nice, lightweight tent, but the trouble is
that almost all the lightweight tents I've found are NOT freestanding;
they MUST be staked in. I didn't think this would be a problem, but
I've camped in my tent three times now, and have had a problem staking
it in every time. The ground is almost always too rocky. I read a
book on bike touring that recommended bivvy bags as an alternative to
a one-person tent (I will be doing this trip entirely solo), because
they're so light and compact. I've seen a couple nice bivvy bags that
have a lightweight pole and netting which gives you some space at the
ead end. Unfortunately, when I asked about them at REI, the person
spoke with said that they are really NOT a good alternative, because
you inevitably get condensation on the inside of the bag. He said that,
because the temperature gradient from your body to the outside is so
abrupt, that you are bound to get moisture on your bag, even though the
bivvy bags are made out of Gore-Tex, which is supposed to be breathable.
I'm hoping to do a lot of my touring out in the Willamette National
Forest. I've driven out there and camped a couple times, and while
it's not too hard to find a place to throw down a tent, it is quite
difficult to find a place that's not too rocky for stakes. I was
figuring that the bivvy bags would be great, because I could just
throw it down "wherever" and camp. I figured that I'd throw down one
tarp for ground cover and, if there were a place to tie it, I'd tie
another tarp above me for rain protection. You can get these great
combination space-blanket/tarps for $10 at REI which I think would serve
this purpose well. (I already have one for ground cover, and it works
great. I figured I'd buy another one for an overhead tarp.)