Plastic Armour
u_ge...@mv3800.engr.scarolina.edu
A friend of mine, whose Society name I forget, has a set of
pickle-barrel armour. It is very light, and provides protection to take
some serious sounding hits. He hides the armour under his tabard so as
not to "offend" any members who are disgusted at the sight of polymer
armour. (Ok, so his belt right now is folded duct-tape, but hey, it
keeps the Society together.)
To those who do not like plastic armour and call for a return to
more period looking armour. (Also those who thought we should make the
armour in the period way.)
1) Have fun. As a Mechanical Engineering student, I will thouroughly
enjoy seeing you make chainmail or plate armour. It is very tough.
2) It is expensive as hell. Plastic armour is very cheap. That fits
the pocketbook of most of the fighters I am acquainted with.
3) Some of the period armour really sucks major rocks for mobility.
(As in, you fall down, you ain't getting back up.)
Just my opinions and experiences.
Rolland Steveneson AKA Patrick Gearman
************************************************************************
Famous last words in an RPG (#2): Ok, High and Mighty Odin, since you're
not going to answer my prayers, let me tell you what I _really_ think
of you.
************************************************************************
Victor W. Wong
In a previous article, u_ge...@mv3800.engr.scarolina.edu () says:
> To those who do not like plastic armour and call for a return to
>more period looking armour. (Also those who thought we should make the
>armour in the period way.)
>
> 2) It is expensive as hell. Plastic armour is very cheap. That fits
> the pocketbook of most of the fighters I am acquainted with.
What about carpet armour, milord? Also very cheap, absorbs kinetic energy
fairly well. Ugly as sin, of course, but not so obviously modern-looking.
And there's leather armour. Even easier to manipulate than either plastic
or metal in construction--all you need is a utility knife, something to slice
it on and a way to harden it.
> 3) Some of the period armour really sucks major rocks for mobility.
> (As in, you fall down, you ain't getting back up.)
That's just a question of style. Most people would find full-plate, late-
period problematic, but the Visby Coat of Plates is VERY mobile.
ษอออออออออป
บ8 8 8 8 8บ VINCENT THE CALCULATOR
ฬอออออออออน mka Victor Wong
บ8 8 8 8 8บ vin...@micor.ocunix.on.ca
บ8 8 8 8 8บ Member, Compagnie Mercurie
ศอออออออออผ
--
Tony Jebson
> To those who do not like plastic armour and call for a return to
>more period looking armour. (Also those who thought we should make the
>armour in the period way.)
>
> 2) It is expensive as hell. Plastic armour is very cheap. That fits
> the pocketbook of most of the fighters I am acquainted with.
OK, it *is* expensive I'll grant you that. To replace mine would be 2000+
pounds, sterling.
> 3) Some of the period armour really sucks major rocks for mobility.
> (As in, you fall down, you ain't getting back up.)
I disagree, I own a full suit if reenactment Milanese plate (which when you
add the weight of mail skirt and other bits is about 80-90 pounds). You can in
fact *jump* to your feet with a bit of practise. Tournament armour is a
different story: this weighs well over 100 pounds and half the joints don't
move!
--- start of advertising plug
For those nutters (like me) with more money than sense, here is the address of
my armourer (who I recommend whole-heartedly: he does a lot of work for
museums so his kit is authentic, it also works!):
"White Rose Armoury"
Unit 58,
Staveley Workshops
Works Road
Hollingwood
Chesterfield S43 2PE
ENGLAND
PS I know he does quite a bit of shipping to the USA
PPS If you want his phone number send me an email - I don't like posting them!
--- end plug
Tony
"wearing too much armour rots the brain"
--- Tony Jebson --- International Computers Limited (ICL)
--- a...@wg.icl.co.uk --- All opinions expressed here (however stupid) are my own,
----------------------- and nothing stated here is an official statement by ICL.
U.J|rgen hman
>On the subject of plastic armour:
> A friend of mine, whose Society name I forget, has a set of
>pickle-barrel armour. It is very light, and provides protection to take
>some serious sounding hits. He hides the armour under his tabard so as
>not to "offend" any members who are disgusted at the sight of polymer
>armour. (Ok, so his belt right now is folded duct-tape, but hey, it
>keeps the Society together.)
> To those who do not like plastic armour and call for a return to
>more period looking armour. (Also those who thought we should make the
>armour in the period way.)
> 1) Have fun. As a Mechanical Engineering student, I will thouroughly
> enjoy seeing you make chainmail or plate armour. It is very tough.
Period armour doesnt have to be made of metal, Multilayerd leather, studded
and riveted leather or hardened leather works just as fine, and is period.
> 2) It is expensive as hell. Plastic armour is very cheap. That fits
> the pocketbook of most of the fighters I am acquainted with.
I think metal and leather is cheaper to buy than plastics. Although plastics
can be found in the city dump or elsewhere for free, but so can metal and leather
as well.
> 3) Some of the period armour really sucks major rocks for mobility.
> (As in, you fall down, you ain't getting back up.)
Well...wearing armour, falling down and not getting back up sounds kinda
period to me.
>Just my opinions and experiences.
>Rolland Steveneson AKA Patrick Gearman
Still banning the Knights of Jofa and CCM...
Ulf Mjoedtunga
Frostheim(the northernmost point of the known world), Nordmark, Drachenwald.
u_ge...@mv3800.engr.scarolina.edu
>
>
>In a previous article, u_ge...@mv3800.engr.scarolina.edu () says:
>> 3) Some of the period armour really sucks major rocks for mobility.
>> (As in, you fall down, you ain't getting back up.)
>
>That's just a question of style. Most people would find full-plate, late-
>period problematic, but the Visby Coat of Plates is VERY mobile.
>
casualties were caused by the knights falling off their horses then anything
else. (Now what was the name of that battle? ARRGGGHH!!)
Rolland Steveneson AKA Patrick Gearman
****************************************************************e you're not
going to answer my prayers, let me tell what I _really_ think of you.
****************************************************************************
Keradwc an Cai
> To those who do not like plastic armour and call for a return to
>more period looking armour. (Also those who thought we should make the
>armour in the period way.)
>
> (As in, you fall down, you ain't getting back up.)
>
>Just my opinions and experiences.
Could you provide a pointer to this? Excluding jousting armor, most
of the period armor (not all, granted, but a sufficiently large fraction
as to make 'almost all' conservative) I've seen gave mobility comparable
to reasonably constructed clothes. Heavier, yes, and the binding points were
somewhat different than clothes, but hardly 'sucks major rocks for
mobility.'
Keradwc
fond of italian transitional (~1375-1425) armor
--
Keradwc an Cai A Caidan Mistie (or was that a Misty Caidan?)
Kevin Davis Connery kcon...@isi.com or ker...@rahul.net
Jason R. Pascucci
> In a recent article (<2nams7$p...@redwood.cs.scarolina.edu>), u_ge...@mv3800.engr.scarolina.edu wrote:
> > 3) Some of the period armour really sucks major rocks for mobility.
> > (As in, you fall down, you ain't getting back up.)
> >
> >Just my opinions and experiences.
> Could you provide a pointer to this? Excluding jousting armor, most
> of the period armor (not all, granted, but a sufficiently large fraction
> as to make 'almost all' conservative) I've seen gave mobility comparable
> to reasonably constructed clothes. Heavier, yes, and the binding points were
> somewhat different than clothes, but hardly 'sucks major rocks for
> mobility.'
I agree with both of you, in fact. For one, heavy armor, O(100lb),
means you (the average period Knight you, not the super-men
we have here in the SCA) ain't running anywhere very long, which means
it is bad for, say, small tactical units, hence the 'sucks rocks for
mobility'. However, for 'normal movement', say, wandering around a
tourney field, or even in static battles where you aren't gonna need
to do a 100 yard dash, the heavyness of the armor becomes
less of a problem, and while 'wear like ...clothes' is a little
bit of a stretch, at certain times it tried hard to *look*
like the fashions of the period.
What happened when a period knight needed to get from a to b? He
rode his horse (for the most part). If he was dismounted, his primary
purpose was to either get back up there, or defend himself from the
peasants on the ground pelting him with vegetables and calling him
names, or whatever they did. (It's a little known fact that most of
the rust on chain comes from vegetable stains from vegetables
thrown by peasants against attacking knights. That, and peasant's blood.
Also, leather was especially susceptable to the cabbage, hence the
difficulty the English knights had with Irish bandits, their
armor would just fall off because the straps disintegrated. It's
probably little known because I just made it up.)
> Keradwc
> fond of italian transitional (~1375-1425) armor
In fact, this is about the time, if memory serves, where some silly
kniggets decided it was a good idea to wear a complete set of chain under
their plates, and they couldn't get up much, although most chain
was just to cover spots where the state-of-the-art articulation
couldn't provide adequate coverage and keep freedom of movements
(i.e. crotch, neck, etc)
> Keradwc an Cai A Caidan Mistie (or was that a Misty Caidan?)
Johann
Fond of late german armor (1490-1540)
--
Jason R. Pascucci Email: j...@accint.com
Open Systems Engineer Phone: 617-494-0066x317
Access International 432 Columbia St, Cambridge, MA 02141
Donan
I originally started out in chainmail, bucket-helm and full steel arms and
legs (not counting the other pieces *gorget, gambeson, etc.*) for an overall
weight of 82 lbs!
So I later discovered plastic armor when a new member of our then shire
came from Caid with his armor when he was a member of the "Corvus" war-unit.
It was basically a Romano-Celtic muscled breastplate harness that covers the
wearer's front torso, "girdle" area in back (between base of spine to halfway
up the back and around the sides) and lastly a seperate piece that covered the
top half of the spine (with the shoulders covered usually in another form of
padding, *for me, lacrosse pads under a tunic*).
After a 32lb chainmail jerkin vs. an approximate 2lb. cuirass, I'll take the
cuirass anytime. Easy to work with (all you need is a sharp knife to cut it,
like a utility knife), a place to heat it in (conventional oven will work fine),
and something to mold it to (whatever you choose to use) and you are all set.
Curt Larsen, Lord Donan MacGlashan (The Baron's Dogrobber)
Chico CA Barony of Rivenoak, Kingdom of the West
Peter Ellison
: In a previous article, u_ge...@mv3800.engr.scarolina.edu () says:
: > To those who do not like plastic armour and call for a return to
: >more period looking armour. (Also those who thought we should make the
: >armour in the period way.)
Covering the plastic with fabric (contact cement, either spray or brush)
is another way. Then a tabord over that and aside from the sounds it makes
most "Period Policemen" will leave you alone. I know quite well about the
harassment of my plastic, that has mostly gone away with convering it.
: > 2) It is expensive as hell. Plastic armour is very cheap. That fits
: > the pocketbook of most of the fighters I am acquainted with.
The cost/time (with one the other is much lower) is not as much as the
problem as up keep. I find the few pieces of steel I have require more
upkeep, but hey that is life ...
: And there's leather armour. Even easier to manipulate than either plastic
: or metal in construction--all you need is a utility knife, something to slice
: it on and a way to harden it.
Combining leather a hiding plastic plates under leather to provide for the
protection desired is another favorite of mine. While really thick leather
can protect you very well it is a little to costly for me.
: > 3) Some of the period armour really sucks major rocks for mobility.
: > (As in, you fall down, you ain't getting back up.)
: That's just a question of style. Most people would find full-plate, late-
: period problematic, but the Visby Coat of Plates is VERY mobile.
Period or not I still don't like falling and getting up :) But since it
is a game lets all be tolerant and help those with either less $$$ or time.
The simple suggestions of covering mine and the help I recieved with
designing my second suit helped calm all but the most radical period policemen
at bay :)
Still Mostly Plastic,
Peter Petrovic
(from the barony boarderd by water to the north,south,east,west Andelcraig MI)
--
/ pwel...@major.cs.mtu.edu
*####*----------------------------------------------
\ All flames etc. to /dev/null. --=}:)
del...@meena.cc.uregina.ca
>In a recent article (<2nams7$p...@redwood.cs.scarolina.edu>), u_ge...@mv3800.engr.scarolina.edu wrote:
>> To those who do not like plastic armour and call for a return to
>>more period looking armour. (Also those who thought we should make the
>>armour in the period way.)
>>
>> 3) Some of the period armour really sucks major rocks for mobility.
>> (As in, you fall down, you ain't getting back up.)
>>
>
>of the period armor (not all, granted, but a sufficiently large fraction
>as to make 'almost all' conservative) I've seen gave mobility comparable
>to reasonably constructed clothes. Heavier, yes, and the binding points were
>somewhat different than clothes, but hardly 'sucks major rocks for
>mobility.'
Apocryhpia, Keradwc--
Last summer, one of my brother serjeants finished off a VERY accurate late
period 3/4 suit. The original was meant to be worn while riding a horse at a
phalanx, firing your crummy matchlock carbine at it, and then galloping away.
He discovered that holding your arms in the position necessary for holds reigns
& gonne was comfortable enough, and he could put them at his sides, but the
shape of the paldrons prohibited ANY front-rear shoulder-swing, so the suit was
USELESS for heavy fighting.
Of course, he could get up easily enough when he got knocked down.
Cedric
(Cuir Bouille in the style of 15th c. german steel)
Tim McDaniel
<u_ge...@mv3800.engr.scarolina.edu> wrote:
>There was some battle where more casualties were caused by the knights
>falling off their horses then anything else. (Now what was the name of
>that battle? ARRGGGHH!!)
That seems an appropriate name for such a battle.
"Me grand-dad, he fell at the Battle of ARRGGGHH!!"
"He died there?"
"Nope, just fell. Six times, in fact. Said it was the silliest damn
battle he'd ever seen. Just galloping along ... *gallomp* *gallomp*
*gallomp* *gallomp* ARRGGGHH!! *crash* After that, nobody used goose
fat to prevent rust ... at least not on their rump armor ..."
DOUGLAS L TRACY
uses of plastic I've seen in use is to build a set of Wisby plate, using
plastic plates in place of the steel ones. Except for the shoulder cops, \
every plate is covered, so no one who doesn't see it being put on can
tell what it's made of.
Cathyn Bluesword, posting from the account of Lord Dunstan du Montsorel
David Friedman
build a set of Wisby plate, using plastic plates in place of the steel
ones. Except for the shoulder cops, every plate is covered, so no one who
doesn't see it being put on can tell what it's made of."
(Cathyn Bluesword)
Except that it goes "clack" instead of "clank."
--
David/Cariadoc
(repeating the comment of his lady wife, who is standing behind him)
DD...@Cornell.Edu
Kevin Davis Connery
>"One of the most period appearing uses of plastic I've seen in use is to
>build a set of Wisby plate, using plastic plates in place of the steel
>ones. Except for the shoulder cops, every plate is covered, so no one who
>doesn't see it being put on can tell what it's made of."
>
>(Cathyn Bluesword)
>
>Except that it goes "clack" instead of "clank."
Only if you're struck, your Grace. Avoid -that-, and there's no sound problem.
<g>
Keradwc
--
| Kevin Connery | Quality must be designed | Not speaking for: |
| ker...@rahul.net | into software; it cannot | Integrated Systems, Inc |
| kcon...@isi.com | be patched on afterwards | Santa Clara, CA |
Adam S Potolsky
: In a recent article (<DDF2-030...@cu-dialup-0110.cit.cornell.edu>), DD...@cornell.edu (David Friedman) wrote:
: >"One of the most period appearing uses of plastic I've seen in use is to
: >build a set of Wisby plate, using plastic plates in place of the steel
: >ones. Except for the shoulder cops, every plate is covered, so no one who
: >doesn't see it being put on can tell what it's made of."
: >
: >(Cathyn Bluesword)
: >
: >Except that it goes "clack" instead of "clank."
: Only if you're struck, your Grace. Avoid -that-, and there's no sound problem.
I have recently found myself enjoying a good thumping. I have searched and
looked for a cheap, easy, and somewhat period looking armour and found that
plastic is it. I was also reminded by a peer that Denim is period and if the
armor is built as a specialized suit of denim with large shaped pockets that
fit cut plastic plates it both looks good and is functional. Besides, whether
clank or clack, I still get thumped. ;)
denim is a canvas from Denim(pronounced den-eem) France.
-a M'Lord Adam Polotsky of Ered Sul
--
a...@pine.cse.nau.edu
--23 skiddo!---
-anon. sometime in the 20's.
Mike.Andrews
a...@pine.cse.nau.edu (Adam S Potolsky) writes:
>denim is a canvas from Denim(pronounced den-eem) France.
Well, actually, it is a cloth "de Nimes" (from or of Nimes), in
what later was known as France, if memory serves. But it is
(IMHO) indisputably period.
--
Pray for the repose of the soul of Katherine Conway Godfrey
Michael Fenwick of Fotheringhay, O.L. (Mike Andrews)
Barony of Namron, Kingdom of Ansteorra
Adam S Potolsky
: Well, actually, it is a cloth "de Nimes" (from or of Nimes), in
: what later was known as France, if memory serves. But it is
: (IMHO) indisputably period.
Thank you for pointing out my error, I'm a bit new at this...
also:
I must apologize for a misleading statement, The Denim is period, but not as
used in armor. The intent was to have period material visible...
Let me avoid another misleading comment, I don't know if denim was used for
armor, but I couldn't prove it at the moment..
Open mouth, insert foot and begin to chew.
When no more foot, insert other foot and begin chewing...
Adam S Potolsky
: In article <CnyuK...@rainbow.cse.nau.edu>,
: a...@pine.cse.nau.edu (Adam S Potolsky) writes:
: >denim is a canvas from Denim(pronounced den-eem) France.
: Well, actually, it is a cloth "de Nimes" (from or of Nimes), in
: what later was known as France, if memory serves. But it is
: (IMHO) indisputably period.
Thank you for pointing out my error, I"m not very versed in french, and have a
tendancy to spell things literally...
also I did not intend to say that armor made with denim was period, rather tha
denim itself is period and since that's all one can see it makes for a good
'quasi-period' looking armor... (and it works pretty well too...)
-a
BrianR0sca
(Adam S Potolsky) writes:
As for myself, i've made a bit of plastic armour. Where i've used
it is on the knees and on the vanbraces as the joint protector. It's
a bit hard on the knees and elbows if you get hit there, so i've went
to wal-mart and purchased knee and elbow pads to cushion the blow.
So far it works fine for me...
anyone else use any plastic armor?
Brynn the Generous from Blacklake
Jim Davis
Is it time for the next round of the plastic armour argument already? -RdG
Richard du Guesclin, Elvegast, Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia
davi...@epamail.epa.gov