SCA Mythology book
Eric S Haverberg
I am currently working on a book of SCA mythology and folklore. Copies of
this book (if finished on time) will be presented/ be available at the
3yc. The biggest problem now is that I need ,ore information.
What I'm looking for is the legendary stories that have been handed down
about the people (past and present) and their deeds (and/ or misdeeds).
This book will be organised like a bardic tale, chronicling the greatness
that is the SCA. If you have any stories that can be verified by either
documentation or multiple first hand witnesses, I'd love to hear them.
Please be as explicit as possible so the full impact of why this should
be included in the mythology/ folklore of the SCA.
Also, I'm trying to decide who is the greatest fighter in the SCA.
Nominations are now being accepted.
You can either reply here or EMail me at SAC5...@CSUS.EDU
Thank you for your submissions.
Ryuama Tenshi
E. Haverberg -- CSUS
James Patrick Klock
writes:
>Dearest Gentle folk,
>
>I am currently working on a book of SCA mythology and folklore. Copies of
>this book (if finished on time) will be presented/ be available at the
>3yc. The biggest problem now is that I need ,ore information.
>
>What I'm looking for is the legendary stories that have been handed down
>about the people (past and present) and their deeds (and/ or misdeeds).
dear friend who had invited me was acquainting me with the reputation of my
host, the great Carolingian Duke Sir Vizivald.
"I once was at a party, where people were telling stories about His Grace's
exploits and adventures," my friend explained, "and every good story I
knew had been told. So I made one up."
"Three people claimed to have been there, and one corrected me on what
had actually happened..."
Sbu...@capitalnet.com
From: sbulger_cap...@101.magsystems.com (sbu...@capitalnet.com)
Subject: SCA Mythology book
Organization: MAG Systems, Inc/TFP BBS
From: sbu...@capitalnet.com (Steve Bulger)
Went down to Ealdormere coronet tourney last weekend. [Exciting trip: two
separate fools nearly killed me on the trip down ...] They had taped a sign to
the outside of the door, using, as I didn't realize until much later, duct
tape wrapped all the way around the door [it was *WINDY*]. Going back out to
my car for some more gear later, I saw the back of the door for the first
time, and it hit me ... You Know You're In The SCA When ... you see a steel
door being held together with _duct_tape_!
This moment of silliness brought to you by ---
Steve
"This universe is sold by weight, not by volume. Some expansion
of the contents may have occured during shipment."
---
--
--
|Fidonet: Sbu...@capitalnet.Com 1:330/317
|Internet: Sbu...@capitalnet.Com
| Web URL: http://www.panda.org
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly their own.
| PandA's Den BBS FidoNet < > internet gateway - email in...@panda.org
Luigi
>Also, I'm trying to decide who is the greatest fighter in the SCA.
>Nominations are now being accepted.
(just kidding! Please don't beat too hard at Pennsic for that)
seriously, I would like to nominate Duke Ronald Wilmot, Earl marshall
of the East. Legend: The last crown that he won he wasn't trying to
win, he just had a major hangover from drinking the night before and
refused to let anyone hit his helmet which had a nice ring to it!
I can get eyewitness accounts for that.
Puppy
Hous Der Kameraden
Gartner Michael
> Also, I'm trying to decide who is the greatest fighter in the SCA.
> Nominations are now being accepted.
That is easy, the one who fights honorably, with chivalry and courtisie,
who is fresh on the field, or the bearer of old scars; he is the greatest
warrior, all others are pretenders usurpers.
> Thank you for your submissions.
>
> Ryuama Tenshi
> E. Haverberg -- CSUS
Duncan Brock
Michael H. Gartner
Universitaet Leipzig, Deutschland
******************************************************************************
Hei tugent, wie smal sint dine stege wie kumberlich sint dine wege!
die dine stege, die dine wege wol ime, der si wege unde stege!
Gottfried von Strassburg, aus seiner Tristan (Engl. Trans. A.T. Hatto, 1960)
******************************************************************************
G. Richard Auklandus
>seriously, I would like to nominate Duke Ronald Wilmot, Earl marshall
>of the East. Legend: The last crown that he won he wasn't trying to
>win, he just had a major hangover from drinking the night before and
>refused to let anyone hit his helmet which had a nice ring to it!
>I can get eyewitness accounts for that.
>
>Puppy
>Hous Der Kameraden
WRONG! Dunno where you heard this but Ron does NOT drink. (OK, there was the night
at Pennsic where Duke Michael of Bedford gave him a bachelor party, but that's
another story...)
Vicomte Cai de Lyon
ex-house Wilmot
Ansteorra, Steppes
Marla Lecin
Puppy replied to Eric S Haverberg:
>>Also, I'm trying to decide who is the greatest fighter in the SCA.
>>Nominations are now being accepted.
>me!
>(just kidding! Please don't beat too hard at Pennsic for that)
>seriously, I would like to nominate Duke Ronald Wilmot, Earl marshall
>of the East. Legend: The last crown that he won he wasn't trying to
>win, he just had a major hangover from drinking the night before and
>refused to let anyone hit his helmet which had a nice ring to it!
>I can get eyewitness accounts for that.
>Puppy
>Hous Der Kameraden
Oh, really? I would like to meet your eyewitnesses, as I was one
of the people with Duke Ronald the night before crown. We spent
it driving from downtown Montreal (we were sightseeing) to the motel
next door to the site. Ronald then went to sleep, while his wife
and I continued sewing our garb for the next day.
Cute legend, but it has a fatal flaw: Ronald doesn't really like
to drink. I believe the last time he drank any great amount was at
his bachelor party, in 1987. (His friend, Duke Michael, insisted.)
However, I would not dispute that Ronald is one of the premier
fighters in the SCA. The tourney you're referring to was held in
Montreal on November 11 (1989), in cold and drizzly weather. Ronald
met (now Duke) Lucan in a "best 4 out of 7" finals. The first point
was a round of archery. (Quite amusing, as neither entrant was very
good at archery. They both used crossbows, and Lucan won by a bolt
or two.) Lucan took the polearm and two-sword bouts, and Ronald won
the greatsword bout. Lucan needed only one more win to take the
tourney; by now it was getting dark. Ronald proceeded to win the
last 3 bouts straight, all with sword and shield.
Ronald always fights to win when he enters Crown. He has fought in
Eastern Crown three times, and won twice (he was the other finalist
in the Crown he did not win). If Ronald isn't fighting in a Crown
tourney, it's because he (and his lady) don't desire to take the
thrones. (Yosef Alaric used to give odds on the entrants' chances
of winning Crown. The odds on Ronald were 1:2 -- better than even.
You'd lose money betting on him.)
Incidentally, both of Ronald and Bronwyn's reigns were October-April;
the East won both of the Pennsic Wars they conducted (15 & 19). I
don't believe any other Eastern King has done so.
In Service,
Jessa d'Avondale
(House Wilmot)
JOHN MCFARLIN
:
: "I once was at a party, where people were telling stories about His Grace's
: exploits and adventures," my friend explained, "and every good story I
: knew had been told. So I made one up."
:
: "Three people claimed to have been there, and one corrected me on what
: had actually happened..."
"I remember that! But it wasn't one who corrected, it was two, if I
remember correctly...;)" (It's catching...)
Conrad aus Cambrai
Fide Sine Fine
(any resemblance between this previour statement and the truth is
completely the responsibility of the reader)
Barbara Nostrand
I suggest that you not limit yourself to a single legendary fighters. There
are several legendary fighters in the society. First of all there is Paul of
Bellatrix. There is Vissevald Selkirksen (who is the person behind a lot of
the "Sir foo and the Army" stories that you have heard. These are versions
of things that happened to him over 20 years ago.) There is Carriadoc of the
Bow. There is also the fighter (whose name I can find) who is famous for
recreating Cyrano de Bergerac's trick of composing poetry while fighting with
the final stanza corresponding to the slaying of his oponent. Basically
though. Paul of Bellatrix is the most famous fighter of the Old West Kingdom,
Carriadoc of the Bow is the most famous fighter of the Old Middle Kingdom and
Vissevald Selkirksen is the most famous fighter of the Old East Kingdom.
Period. Unfortunately, I can not tell you who the most famous fighter of
Old Atenveld is. That would give you the entire continent of North America.
Arguably, the E-M-W kingdoms give you all of North America, but the BoD
split off Atenweld very early on, so I am not sure whether they have legendary
roots in one of the E-M-W kingdoms.
Your Humble Servant
Solveig Throndardottir
Amateur Scholar
Luigi
>Oh, really? I would like to meet your eyewitnesses, as I was one
>of the people with Duke Ronald the night before crown. We spent
>it driving from downtown Montreal (we were sightseeing) to the motel
>next door to the site. Ronald then went to sleep, while his wife
>and I continued sewing our garb for the next day.
my defense that is way I heard it. As for my sources, I should keep them
anonymous. Okay, I don't remember but I think it was Gunther or Wolfstan
probably, to drown a good myth with reality, just relating Ronalds
nonchalant sense of humor about some things.
>Ronald always fights to win when he enters Crown. He has fought in
>Eastern Crown three times, and won twice (he was the other finalist
>in the Crown he did not win). If Ronald isn't fighting in a Crown
>tourney, it's because he (and his lady) don't desire to take the
>thrones. (Yosef Alaric used to give odds on the entrants' chances
>of winning Crown. The odds on Ronald were 1:2 -- better than even.
>You'd lose money betting on him.)
put a bid in for and didn't fight in he told me, contrary to all other
advice I recieved, that the only reason you should enter crown is if
you intend to win and are prepared to take the throne. I always had
respect for him and that statement amplified that. (and lessened my
opinion of those who advised me to, and so themselves, enter crown for
lesser reasons)
Puppy
Haus Der Kameraden
PS- Ronald honors the white belt he wears, both in fighting skill and in
character. He desrves note of some sort in the SCA mythology book.
(Maybe how at last Pennsic, he took a break and went to a concert to take
his aggression out on skinheads because it's not cool to beat on peers)
Tom Gibson
: >about the people (past and present) and their deeds (and/ or misdeeds).
One of the many problems that SCA has always had is the growth of these
legends, such as the famous, "I'll see your 6 and raise you 30."
When I knocked a guy's helm off in the funfights at Pennsic 8 he put it
back on and called the blow, "HIGH!" This was retold as that he had
called the blow, "LIGHT!" Of course, for HIM, it WAS light.
But my favorite Olde Storye is from the days even earlier than myself.
It seems that Sir Andrew of Seldom Rest (note the lack, yet, of the title
Duke or even HalfDuke?) was at feast, and (being a man of demanding
tastes) had brought his own suckling pig, which he slaughtered and
prepared for his repast. As the meal was finished he found himself with
the piglet's brain alone on his plate. Not to be without gentlemanly
generosity he went around offing this delecacy to the various ladies
present. Incredibly, all declined. He persisted, to find a taker.
Another fellow (the name escapes me) stood and announced, "M'Lords and
Ladies, Sir Andrew here has the brains of a pig!" This brought great
delight to the assembled host. Then the speaker realized that his remark
COULD conceivably be misundertood, and corrected himself. "Oh, no, I
didn't mean that! Sir Andrew does NOT have the brains of a pig!"
It is not certain, but I suspect Sir Andrew ate the pig brain himself,
and probably became much wiser for it.
- Warren of the Just Plain
David Salley
Eric S Haverberg (sac5...@saclink1.csus.edu) wrote:
: Dearest Gentle folk,
: about the people (past and present) and their deeds (and/ or misdeeds).
It was Siegfried and Wanda von Halstern's third coronation. It
rained. It poured. It was sodden. The tournament was cancelled. With
Siegfried as king, only an act of God COULD cancel a rattan tournament. The
contest for "Best Lament for a Fighter" was changed to "Best Lament for a
Tournament". After several people poured out their hearts in tales of woe,
one young woman walked up and in a quiet voice said, "I spent the last two
weeks doing ALL of the scrolls for the tournament.", turned and walked off
stage. She won hands down.
That night, the entire House von Halstern crashed in the home of a
woman who lived on a cul-de-sac street. It was wall-to-wall von Halstern.
You could have walked from one end of the house to the other without ever
touching the floor. You very nearly had to, as there was little floor space
unclaimed.
The following morning was Sunday; bright, crisp, clear, beautiful,
DRY! Bone dry! A perfect day for tournament, albeit a day late, or so I
thought. Siegfried is mundanely a New Jersey dockworker with the thickest
`Joirsey' accent I have ever heard. That morning, at breakfast for forty,
he announced, "We haf king. We haf fighters. We haf prizes. We haf M-O-L.
We haf toorney!" The cheer shook the walls of the house.
Sunday morning, 9 am, on a quiet suburban cul-de-sac, the sounds of
battle rang down the street. I was not watching the tournament, I was
watching the windows of houses. The curtains would pull aside and faces peer
out. A moment later a figure in a bathrobe would wander down the driveway.
They'd watch for a minute, then run back into the house. They'd return a
minute later with videocameras for collecting evidence. We actually had
trouble trying to explain to them that they couldn't pass the list ropes.
I kept waiting for someone to call the cops, no one ever did.
BethZimmer
>
>> Nominations are now being accepted.
I'm not sure if I have all my facts right on this one, but if I don't I'm
sure one of you good gentles will correct me. The tale goes:
Many years ago (at least two or three) Sir Mikal Montpass and
several men at arms from House Wolf Star went to the Estrella
Wars (may have been a different war). They arrived Friday night
and set up camp, waiting for the fun to begin the next day. Sir
Mikal became bored. Now for those who know Sir Mikal, you know
that there is nothing more dangerouse than a bored Sir Mikal. Sir
Mikal donned his armour and strood to the middle of the battlefield.
He planted his sword and proclaimed the field his and challenged
all to come and try to take it away from him. Many a brave warrior
accepted the challenge that day. All through the afternoon knight
after knight challenged Sir Mikal's claim to the field. At the end of
the day, Sir Mikal still held the field and all were vanquished.
Next time you're at an event, and you see the T-Shirt with the
knight standing proud and unvanquished with bodies surrounding
him and the words, "One against thousands." That commemorates
this great deed and the awe at what he did that day.
Sir Mikal is now head of House Wolf Star, in the barony of Wiesenford
in the Kingdom of Ansteora. He is a chivialrouse knight and a great
teacher passing on his knowledge, and his love of the SCA and it's
ideals.
Affreana O'Dunlaing
Wiesenford
BethZ
94XLH 883 Hugger
Basic Black
Bitch #6
**************************************************************************
*********
There are no sidelines in the game of life.
Everyones a player
**************************************************************************
*********
zimm...@comswsys.tinkernet.af.mil (work)
beth...@aol.com (play)
Joel "Spydre" Connors
>Sir Mikal donned his armour and strood to the middle of the
>battlefield.
> He planted his sword and proclaimed the field his and challenged
> all to come and try to take it away from him. Many a brave warrior
> accepted the challenge that day. All through the afternoon knight
> after knight challenged Sir Mikal's claim to the field. At the end of
> the day, Sir Mikal still held the field and all were vanquished.
> Next time you're at an event, and you see the T-Shirt with the
> knight standing proud and unvanquished with bodies surrounding
> him and the words, "One against thousands." That commemorates
> this great deed and the awe at what he did that day.
A few years ago the West was still young in holding Rose's tourneys at
its Crowns nd Coronets. Back then the Rose's tourney was fought with
only two fighters on the field at a time. The winner was allowed to stay
in and the loser went and gave a rose to the winners consort.
Then Sir Fabian (Now Duke) did not fight in that Crown (I believe he was
still under Drachewald citizenship). But he chose to go out and fight in
the Rose's tourney. Well by his own account his Lady took home over 80
rose's. This does not account for the ones she gave away. The ones
Fabian one for the queen and so on.
From that Rose's on we now fight with at least two fields and both
fighters leave the field at the end of the match.
Teirnion Shaduaw ap Gruffydd Llanrhudd
"Crown the wise, harness the talented, and cherish the lucky"
LdyGamer
(sp?) The nice thing about these gentlemen is that they are just that!
I'm beginning to think that most of the names of the list have displayed
not only astounding prowess and innovation on the field of battle, but
courtesy, chivalry, and artistic talents as well. Hmm, maybe we should
consider a "Knights of the Round Table" approach..... naaah, it'll never
sell!
Duchess Natalya de Foix
BLACKSCA
would be a lot of 'oh yeah, my dog's bigger than your dog!'. However I now
see it as a sort of tribute to some of the greatest fighters in 'SCA
Mythology' and have enjoyed it immensly.
Here's my favorite.
A couple of Estrellas ago I participated in the Champions battle at the
end of Saturday as an (then) unbelted fighter. I believe the Kingdoms were
allowed 30 unbelts and 20 belted fighters. These included, of course, some
of the 'hottest sticks' from several kingdoms.(Dukes or better to open).
Our side (Atenveldt) lost the first round (belted) but won the second
(unbelted). Bragging rights came down to the final engagement (50vs50). To
put it bluntly we were cut down like dogs. At what seemed to be the end,
only Duke Brion Tarragon was left agianst 25 (the number gets bigger every
time this story is retold but I assure you it was very close to 1/2 of the
opposing side, mostly belted).
Some one high up on the other side said, with a certain note of pity in
their voice, "Oh, give him single combat." While I smiled to myself at the
show to come even I was amazed at what followed.
Everyone expected Brion to aquit himself well, even take down a certain
large number before the inevitable. Let's face it, there were knights on
the opposing side whose combined time on the throne had to be measured in
decades.
Duke Brion ran through that entire assemblage in under twenty minutes
without receiving a single wound!!
I still wonder if the person on the other team would repeat his decision
if he had to do it all over (I suspect he would, it was that wonderful).
We all felt that day that we had witnessed something we could talk about
for many years to come.
Still shaking my head in amazement,
Thegn Dan
C. Kevin Kellogg
: Oh goodness! How could we forget Duke Cariadoc of the Bow... or Finvarr
Your Grace, why not a list of the Nine Worthies from each kingdom?
For Caid I would suggest Armand, Hugh, Gregory, Balin, and Tryggvi be
considered.
Avenel Kellough
IVA...@delphi.com
Quoting 0003900943 from a message in rec.org.sca
>Incidentally, both of Ronald and Bronwyn's reigns were October-April;
>the East won both of the Pennsic Wars they conducted (15 & 19). I
>don't believe any other Eastern King has done so.
???? Royalty conduct wars they aren't reigning at?????
If they reigned October-April, they weren't on the Thrones in August, now
were they?
You sure it wan't April-October?
Carolyn Boselli Host of CF 35 SCAdians on Delphi (Medieval Stuff)
Cohost for Caregivers Ref Med Caring for those we love
It's amazing what wisdoms can fit into 52 characters.
Joel "Spydre" Connors
>Hmm, maybe we should
> consider a "Knights of the Round Table" approach..... naaah, it'll never
> sell!
>
Good Duchess and gentles all,
If a 'youngster' could be so bold. If we truly do make a Table Round,
then may I humbly suggest that we not forget one most worthy and noble
master. He may not be the greatest to ever walk (I wont tell him that),
but none can deny a position of great respect to the longest continuous
fighting member of our fair Society.
I say three ales, cheers, or charges (your choice) for a man who most
often would like to be known simply as.
Flieg
Duke Frederick of Holland MSCA, OP, etc know figthing his way into his
30th year in armor.
--
Joel "S" Connors
SCA- Teirnion Shadauw ap Gruffydd Llanrhudd
LdyGamer
criteria and agreeing on that could take us until the end of the world as
we know it....:) I suspect we should stay away from trying to define the
gentle perfect knight, as I fear we are bound to disagree, based on
individual personal experiences. I realize the post started as a search
for the greatest fighters, and given that as the sole criterion, all of
the names I've seen are excellent candidates, with more to be added (Count
Sir Stephan de Lorraine, Viscount Sir Morven of Carrick, Earl Sir Glyn ap
Rhodri).
Duchess Natalya de Foix
rosalyn rice
own list of Worthies. I would make a very interesting tournament at
Pennsic or Estrella.
Lothar
Bryan J. Maloney
ror...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (rosalyn rice) wrote:
However, mere prowess with a stick is NOT enough to qualify as a "worthy"
in the medieval sense of the word. In fact, many of the true "worthies"
had no reputation as being great personal warriors at all.
TRISTAN CLAIR DE LUNE/KEN MONDSCHEIN
No flattery (or flattening) intended here, but I think you wouldn't
have much of a "nine worthies" list without the addition of Viscount
Edward Zifran (of Gendy). Of course, that's just my opinion.
--Tristan
Arval d'Espas Nord
Nine Worthies:
Joshua Hector King Arthur
King David Alexander Charlemagne
Judas Maccabbeus Julius Caesar Godefrey de Bouillion
The third Christian, the most modern of the nine, varies from one work to
another, probably to flatter the patron of the particular artist. In
French texts, it is often Godefrey. In English texts, it is sometimes
William de Warick. And so on.
I would hesitate to generalize that the Worthies were chosen for personal
prowess or for leadership ability. I'm not sure that medieval writers
would have found much significance in that distinction.
===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord mit...@panix.com
SheehanTA
leadership, they were also often selected for the greatness of their
lineage or the endurance of their personal legend.
Deirdre O'Siodhachain
Dorothy J Heydt
Bryan J. Maloney <bj...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>However, mere prowess with a stick is NOT enough to qualify as a "worthy"
>in the medieval sense of the word. In fact, many of the true "worthies"
>had no reputation as being great personal warriors at all.
Really? Could someone supply a list of the traditional Nine
Worthies, and could you annotate it as to which you don't
consider great warriors? My faulty memory supplies David,
Joshua, Charlemagne, Julius Caesar, and one or two Crusader
Kings, formidable warriors all. And it's not safe to assume
(e.g.) "Caesar wasn't a great personal warrior, he was a general
and just commanded the guys who did the real fighting," because (if
I'm not mistaken) the idea of the general commanding from safe
behind the lines is fairly recent. Ancient generals *led* their
troops.
Waiting to be enlightened,
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable djh...@uclink.berkeley.edu
PRO DEO ET REGE
Bryan J. Maloney
(Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:
> Kings, formidable warriors all. And it's not safe to assume
> (e.g.) "Caesar wasn't a great personal warrior, he was a general
> and just commanded the guys who did the real fighting," because (if
> I'm not mistaken) the idea of the general commanding from safe
> behind the lines is fairly recent. Ancient generals *led* their
> troops.
Prove that Caesar had great personal physical prowess. I don't deny that
he did, I deny that he MUST have.
TRISTAN CLAIR DE LUNE/KEN MONDSCHEIN
Also, I give the tapestry (at the Met) two thumbs up...
--Tristan
mle...@mcimail.com
>If they reigned October-April, they weren't on the Thrones in August, now
>were they?
>
>You sure it wan't April-October?
Oops. He won the Crowns in October (or November) and stepped up
in April. The reigns ran through the next fall.
Jessa (engage brain before typing)
Craig Levin
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@uclink.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>In article <bjm10-08029...@potato.cit.cornell.edu>,
>Bryan J. Maloney <bj...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
>>However, mere prowess with a stick is NOT enough to qualify as a "worthy"
>>in the medieval sense of the word. In fact, many of the true "worthies"
>>had no reputation as being great personal warriors at all.
>Really? Could someone supply a list of the traditional Nine
>Worthies, and could you annotate it as to which you don't
>consider great warriors? My faulty memory supplies David,
>Joshua, Charlemagne, Julius Caesar, and one or two Crusader
>(e.g.) "Caesar wasn't a great personal warrior, he was a general
>and just commanded the guys who did the real fighting," because (if
>I'm not mistaken) the idea of the general commanding from safe
>behind the lines is fairly recent. Ancient generals *led* their
>troops.
From Keen's _Chivalry_: The Jewish Worthies: David, Judah the
Maccabee, Joshua. Of these 3, all were warriors, and David also
got kudos for his minstrelsy.
The Pagan Worthies: Hector, Caesar, and Alexander the Great. Al
gets credit as a fabulously generous lord, but that's about it.
The Christian Worthies: Arthur, Carolus Magnus, and Godfrey of
Bouillon. Looks like warriors to me.
--
http://pages.ripco.com:8080/~clevin/index.html
cle...@ripco.com
Craig Levin
Lori Iversen
rudi...@utdallas.edu
of the Nine Worthies. It involves combat in various circumstances,
tilting, chivalry, answering questions, presentation, etc. One of the
nine is chosen by the heralds. I believe that one is chosen by the
ladies.
There is no "elimination" by losing fights.
Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin
Keith Johnson
In a previous article, mas...@nwlink.com (Tom Gibson) says:
>When I knocked a guy's helm off in the funfights at Pennsic 8 he put it
>back on and called the blow, "HIGH!" This was retold as that he had
>called the blow, "LIGHT!" Of course, for HIM, it WAS light.
hmmm, nice helmet, I sure as hell wouldn't fight in it. Knock my hat
off, and I won't be happy. You would have to take my head with it.
--
Keith Johnson, NightMaster and Ogedei can be reached at...
ad...@freenet.unbc.edu || keith....@mag-net.com
MY WORLD WIDE WEB HOME PAGE IS LOCATED AT
http://sensemedia.net/sprawl/3923
Dick Eney
Keith Johnson <ad...@freenet.unbc.edu> wrote:
>
>In a previous article, mas...@nwlink.com (Tom Gibson) says:
>
>>When I knocked a guy's helm off in the funfights at Pennsic 8 he put it
>>back on and called the blow, "HIGH!" This was retold as that he had
>>called the blow, "LIGHT!" Of course, for HIM, it WAS light.
>
>hmmm, nice helmet, I sure as hell wouldn't fight in it. Knock my hat
>off, and I won't be happy. You would have to take my head with it.>
>
Please note that it was Pennsic 8. That was before it was required that
a helm be fastened on so that it couldn't be knocked off.
-- Tamar the Gypsy
David Friedman
> But my favorite Olde Storye is from the days even earlier than myself.
>
> It seems that Sir Andrew of Seldom Rest (note the lack, yet, of the title
> Duke or even HalfDuke?) was at feast, and (being a man of demanding
> tastes) had brought his own suckling pig, which he slaughtered and
> prepared for his repast. As the meal was finished he found himself with
> the piglet's brain alone on his plate. Not to be without gentlemanly
> generosity he went around offing this delecacy to the various ladies
> present. Incredibly, all declined. He persisted, to find a taker.
>
> Another fellow (the name escapes me) stood and announced, "M'Lords and
> Ladies, Sir Andrew here has the brains of a pig!" This brought great
> delight to the assembled host. Then the speaker realized that his remark
> COULD conceivably be misundertood, and corrected himself. "Oh, no, I
> didn't mean that! Sir Andrew does NOT have the brains of a pig!"
>
> It is not certain, but I suspect Sir Andrew ate the pig brain himself,
> and probably became much wiser for it.
A somewhat garbled account of an exchange involving me, Andrew, and Yang.
As best I recall, Yang was trying to get me in trouble with Andrew (who I
think was Tanist at the time--it was during Iriel's reign, I believe
twelfthnight) by getting me to say that Andrew either did or did not have
the brains of a pig.
David/Cariadoc
Luigi
>hmmm, nice helmet, I sure as hell wouldn't fight in it. Knock my hat
>off, and I won't be happy. You would have to take my head with it.
A few fighters in my household had entered in the boar hunt a few Pennsics
back. Being some of the more enthusiastics hunters in the woods that day,
if far from the best, we chased a group of animals (for those not familiar
with this setup, the animals are other combatants that the hunter groups
compete in killing the most of) up a small ridge (about 5 feet or so) to
find them teem up with several other animal groups already up there so we
teamed up with two other hunter group to make for a small melee. It was a
30 to 40 foot wide ridge of uneven tree covered terrain that we fought on.
On the first hold, some on one side announced that some slipped off the edge.
Being in the middle of everything, I remember walking up a 5 foot slope so
I didn't think much of it after he anounced that the person looked alright.
During the next hold, I was still in the middle and the same guy was on the
end who gave an update: chiurgeons were attending to the guy. This started
making less and less sense but I (I should say we, this was the general
attitude of everyone in my household that was fighting there) we figuered
that if he wasn't alright, at least the chiurgeons already got to him so we
layed on. During the third hold, the same genious on the end points to me
and said "Oh by the way, that guy down there is wearing on of your tabbards."
Me and the one other guy in my house that were still alive (the others
returned to the resurection point where we though our poor frien Diago went)
went to the edge and saw a forty foot drop. No exageration. There was a five
foot wide flattened path through the undergrowth that went straight a bout
half way down, then at a tree, moved over a bit then continued the rest of
the way down. Luckily the slope was gentle enough where he rolled the whole
way down. He got too close to the edge and lost his balance. The spot where
he encountered the tree, he hit his head on it, and his chin strap broke,
knocking his helmet off. He landed right between two large thorn bushes on
his back. His helmet landed on his gut knocking the wind out of him. Otherwise
he was entirely uninjured.
At the feild battle, same Pennsic, our clumsy friend Diago also fell through
a shield wall, we charged through and tore the unit to pieces. We never
let the poor guy live it down.
The joke in the household was told of as him falling of the rainbow bridge on
his trip to Valhala.
Puppy
Hous Der Kameraden
lka...@delphi.com
pu...@con2.com
Brian Martin
>
> Life would be simpler if each kingdom just came up with their
>own list of Worthies. I would make a very interesting tournament at
>Pennsic or Estrella.
>
On the subject of the best fighters in the Known World, I do remember the
Crowns of the Known World Tournament that was held at TFYC. In order to enter
the list, a combatent had to have won a Crown Tournament. Of course, there were
a great many qualified fighters who were not at TFYC, but it did make for quite
a tourny.
Oh, and the winner of that tournament? His Grace, Sir Hector Philip Martel, one
of the finest knights I have ever seen.
Pendaran
Norman J. Finkelshteyn
: At a recent SCA demo, I was approached by a member of the local Star Trek
: Fan Club with questions about what it would take to make a Worf-type sash
: out of mail. After discussion, the conclusion is that it needs to be as
: light as is feasible, yet durable enough to go through a con, not just a
: masquerade. So, I promised to collect information and get back with her.
: So far I have come up with the following and would like comments (positive
: or negative)
: 1. Gauge - 16 or 18
: 2. Fairly large links - faster to make and lighter
One and two depend on each other - the larger the link the heavier guage
you need to use. I wouldn't use 18 guage for anything larger than 1/4
diameter link. at a half inch I wouldn't use anything lighter than 14 guage.
: 3. Cut the links instead of snipping them - won't snag or come loose as
: easily
I don't think this is the case. I use armour of mail and plates and I use
diagonal pliers to cut the rings - It's all in how carefully you join
them.
: Questions
: 1. Is aluminum wire an option? I have never worked with it, and would
: like an opinion.
I saw someone with an aluminum mail loin cloth - the rings were about ten
guage.
Make your life easy, use commercialy sold galvanised steel wire.
: 2. How much wire is needed? Before I even think about agreeing to do this
: and a price, I would like to know materials cost.
How big is the guy?
If the thing Warf wears on the tele were mail, it would probably take 6
to 10 packs of 58 foot 14 guage wire (that's how mine comes so that's all
I got to judge from) - figure about 30 to 40 dollars.
Oh yes, I do have a
: winding jig with four sizes of rods, from jewelry size to 5/16ths. Would
: a larger rod be better?
I'd vote with somewhere round half an inch.
Nahum
Chris and Elisabeth Zakes
>When I knocked a guy's helm off in the funfights at Pennsic 8 he put it
>back on and called the blow, "HIGH!" This was retold as that he had
>called the blow, "LIGHT!" Of course, for HIM, it WAS light.
And then there was the line I heard in the woods battle during Pennsic
16: "forceful, but glancing".
??????????????
-Tivar Moondragon
C and E Zakes
Tivar Moondragon (Patience and Persistence)
and Aethelyan of Moondragon (Decadence is its own reward)
moon...@bga.com
Tom Gibson
: > It is not certain, but I suspect Sir Andrew ate the pig brain himself,
: A somewhat garbled account of an exchange involving me, Andrew, and Yang.
: As best I recall, Yang was trying to get me in trouble with Andrew (who I
: think was Tanist at the time--it was during Iriel's reign, I believe
: twelfthnight) by getting me to say that Andrew either did or did not have
: the brains of a pig.
: David/Cariadoc
I should have known I would get into trouble relating old 2nd-hand
stories. The trouble is, they're not old ENOUGH. Anyway, I think the
version I give is better. It IS afterall a legend. Eh?
Tom Gibson
: >In a previous article, mas...@nwlink.com (Tom Gibson) says:
: >>called the blow, "LIGHT!" Of course, for HIM, it WAS light.
: >hmmm, nice helmet, I sure as hell wouldn't fight in it. Knock my hat
Ayup! Can't have one without the other.
: Please note that it was Pennsic 8. That was before it was required that
: a helm be fastened on so that it couldn't be knocked off.
So true. The debates were just winding down in the Mid about that.
Weird. They had all kinds of rules about hand, neck, knee, crotch, etc,
but the helm didn't have to be fastened on. I often wondered it that had
anything to do with the importance of what it contained?
Too bad we couldn't have a rule that requires the helm to be filled with
something to get rid of the hollow sound too. :-) Isn't in great that
things are So Much Better now? :-)
Tom Gibson
quintescential Master of the FAST Blade. A samurai back in the days when
there weren't many, besides being generally noted as one Hellofa fighter,
he was also reputed to be the only fighter known to be so quick as to be
able to hit you on BOTH sides of your helm at the same time. Using just
his katana.
Arval d'Espas Nord
Cariadoc had writ:
> : A somewhat garbled account of an exchange involving me, Andrew, and Yang.
> : As best I recall, Yang was trying to get me in trouble with Andrew (who I
> : think was Tanist at the time--it was during Iriel's reign, I believe
> : twelfthnight) by getting me to say that Andrew either did or did not have
> : the brains of a pig.
Tom Gibson replied:
> I should have known I would get into trouble relating old 2nd-hand
> stories. The trouble is, they're not old ENOUGH. Anyway, I think the
> version I give is better. It IS afterall a legend. Eh?
I agree, but I think you need to polish up your version of the story, Tom.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
It came to pass in the early days of the Middle Kingdom that Andrew of
Seldomrest, the second king of that land, gave a Twelfth Night feast for
the most noble of his subjects. At that feast, his honored guest was
Cariadoc of the Bow, the first king of that land.
Now, Andrew was a man of simple and earthy pleasures; and it so happened
that one of his favored foods was pig's brains. Most men might quail at
such a ... fine delicacy, but to Andrew they were as manna to the
Israelites. He couldn't get enough of 'em.
As all know, it is an ancient and joyous tradition at Twelfth Night to
roast a boar and to serve forth the head of the boar with great ceremony
and appropriate music.
The head cook at this feast noticed this culinary coincidence of custom and
inclination, and prepared a plan to please the princely palate. A head was
produced with a plate of specially prepared pig's brains secreted within
the skull. The head was ushered forth with melifluent hymns, placed before
the king, and with a flourish the choice dish was revealed to his grace's
delight.
Now, you will all agree when I tell you that it is a common thing in our
lands that a ceremony at high table cannot be seen nor heard much beyond
the first row of tables. And so there was a great outcry among the people
to know what had transpired. It fell to Sir Cariadoc to provide this
service.
Drawing himself up to his full five-foot-two (not counting the turban),
Cariadoc spoke in his very best herald's voice: "His Majesty has the brains
of a pig!"
There was much laughter.
Some minutes later, it dawned upon King Andrew (who, at least for purpose
of mythology, was not a man renowned for acuity of wit) what had just
happened. He was full wroth, and stood over Sir Cariadoc in his ire, his
six-foot-eleven-inch frame towering over the diminutive knight. "I demand
an apology," he thundered, "You can't say things like that about me; I'm
the KING!"
Cariadoc, ever the faithful servant, bowed low to his leige lord, and
addressed the populace once more, in his very best herald's voice: "A
correction: His Majesty does _not_ have the brains of a pig!"
And that is the first part of the Cycle of Andrew Seldomrest.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Any factual errors in the foregoing text are presented without qualm. The
facts wouldn't make nearly as good a story.
Re-publication of this story beyond its normal, one-time distribution on
the Rialto is forbidden. Oral history should remain oral.
Chris and Elisabeth Zakes
>When I knocked a guy's helm off in the funfights at Pennsic 8 he put it
>back on and called the blow, "HIGH!" This was retold as that he had
>called the blow, "LIGHT!" Of course, for HIM, it WAS light.
And then there was the line I heard in the woods battle during Pennsic
Kel Rekuta
I don't know about that, you'd have to ask Rolac or Dagan.
I did watch him fight through a free for all melee. Like a kayak
through a winding rocky river. A cut here, a duck there, what a sight!
It was an inspiration to me to start fighting way back when.
I've always remembered the lesson I learned that day. It's better to
dodge than block whenever the opportunity presents itself.
More new fighters would be wise to learn that lesson today.
Fond memories......
Ceallach
Ealdormerean Old Phart
G. Richard Auklandus
> Some minutes later, it dawned upon King Andrew (who, at least for purpose
> of mythology, was not a man renowned for acuity of wit) what had just
> happened. He was full wroth, and stood over Sir Cariadoc in his ire, his
> six-foot-eleven-inch frame towering over the diminutive knight. "I demand
> an apology," he thundered, "You can't say things like that about me; I'm
> the KING!"
>
> Cariadoc, ever the faithful servant, bowed low to his leige lord, and
> addressed the populace once more, in his very best herald's voice: "A
> correction: His Majesty does _not_ have the brains of a pig!"
>
> And that is the first part of the Cycle of Andrew Seldomrest.
Now, I heard the story as being about King Andrew of Riga of the West.
What I heard was said was that Andrew (being mundanely Jewish) and
being presented with the brains and the herald crying out "The king
has the brains of a pig", asked that the "delicacy" be taken away.
The herald then announced "The king hasn't the brains of a pig."
Andy turned, very upset, and said "Apologize!"
And the herald, loudly, announced "I'm sorry the king hasn't the
brains of a pig!"
Vicomte Cai de Lyon
Ansteorra, Steppes
(11 days until East, Ostgardr!)
rudi...@utdallas.edu
> Re-publication of this story beyond its normal, one-time distribution on
> the Rialto is forbidden. Oral history should remain oral.
Isn't that like saying, "Now don't do that again. Virgins should stay
virgins."?
David Friedman
> Now, I heard the story as being about King Andrew of Riga of the West.
As best I recall, the exchange occurred at the twelfth night prior to
Pennsic 1, which I think predates any of Riga's reigns. Of course, the
idea could have been invented more than once. Alternatively, Yang and
someone in the west might have both lifted the idea from some third
source.
David/Cariadoc
Pyotr Filipivich
}Arval d'Espas Nord wrote:
}> Some minutes later, it dawned upon King Andrew (who, at least for purpose
}> of mythology, was not a man renowned for acuity of wit) what had just
}> happened. He was full wroth, and stood over Sir Cariadoc in his ire, his
}> six-foot-eleven-inch frame towering over the diminutive knight. "I demand
}> an apology," he thundered, "You can't say things like that about me; I'm
}> the KING!"
}>
}> Cariadoc, ever the faithful servant, bowed low to his leige lord, and
}> addressed the populace once more, in his very best herald's voice: "A
}> correction: His Majesty does _not_ have the brains of a pig!"
}>
}> And that is the first part of the Cycle of Andrew Seldomrest.
}Now, I heard the story as being about King Andrew of Riga of the West.
}What I heard was said was that Andrew (being mundanely Jewish) and
}being presented with the brains and the herald crying out "The king
}has the brains of a pig", asked that the "delicacy" be taken away.
}The herald then announced "The king hasn't the brains of a pig."
}Andy turned, very upset, and said "Apologize!"
}And the herald, loudly, announced "I'm sorry the king hasn't the
}brains of a pig!"
This story gets better and better everytime.
now I await the denunciation of this as having never happened at all
in any of the particulars,, and it will be a done deed! :-)
It was really "the king has the brains of a pict!" and was said in
battle! Yeah - that's the ticket ...
Farewell all from
Nikolai Petrovich
--
py...@halcyon.com Pyotr Filipivich, amongst others.
When I was a boy, we had Outcome Based Education, too.
We called it "Being held back a year"
Tom Gibson
: (brains of a pig story)
It is good to know that I have managed at last to make a contribution to
the culture of this group. :-)
: Alternatively, Yang and
: someone in the west might have both lifted the idea from some third
: source.
If Yang were to be included in the story it would surely grow far more...
MORE!
- Warren of the Just Plain
Who, when confronted with a pig brain, gingerly
felt about his own head, and sighed in relief.
LdyGamer
but I couldn't find his response)..... I don't think it was Duke Andrew of
Riga because there is no way anyone could have sensibly accused him of
having the brains of a pig! Also, they lived at opposite sides of the map
until just recently. Oh yes, and the other reason it couldn't be Andrew
of Riga is because he isn't 6'8"...
Duchess Natalya de Foix
P.S. Arval, if oral history should remain oral, why did you relay the
story in the first place?
Dorothy J Heydt
G. Richard Auklandus <RAU...@jcpenney.com> wrote:
>
>Now, I heard the [brains of a pig] story as being about King Andrew of Riga
of the West.
No, but I'll tell you what did happen.
In the days of Andrew's first reign, Caid was still a
Principality of the West. And every Twelfth Night a little
delegation of Caidans (typically three, all dressed in white)
would come up and present the Royals with gold, frankincense and
myrrh "in the tradition of the Christmas King." Nobody objected
that I know of, including Andrew (who *is* Jewish).
Anyway, observing that on this Twelfth Night our first Jewish
king was to be crowned, and that the Caidans would surely come up
with the usual g. f. and m., Hal and his sister and I determined
to do a presentation of our own. We fixed it with the heralds,
and right on the tail of the Caidans came Ravnsgaard with lox,
bagels, and cream cheese.
The King said, "Hal, God's gonna get you for that."
(But he hasn't so far.)
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West UC Berkeley
Argent, a cross forme'e sable djh...@uclink.berkeley.edu
PRO DEO ET REGE
normteck@frontiernet.net@frontiernet.net
>delegation of Caidans (typically three, all dressed in white)
>would come up and present the Royals with gold, frankincense and
>myrrh "in the tradition of the Christmas King." Nobody objected
>that I know of, including Andrew (who *is* Jewish).
>
>Anyway, observing that on this Twelfth Night our first Jewish
I was living in Three Rivers, Calontir at the time, and a very dear friend of
mine, Nathan Adelar received his white belt, chain and spurs at an event
held during Passover. Nathan was the first Jew in Calontir to be so recognized.
Many centuries ago someone had already coined the phrase I was to use in
pointing out Nathan's ethnic differences from his knightly brothers.
Recognizing the holiday season, Nathan's ethnicity and status, it was virtually
preordained that I should ask the populace, "Why is this knight different from
all other knights?".
Raphael Tempovaloroso
Marks Robert B
: >every Twelfth Night a little
: Raphael Tempovaloroso
Reminds me of a story that occurs in our canton. It seems that there was
this one gentleman (can't remember the name) who was at a feast where
Scraeling Althing (probably spell'd it wrong) was entertaining another
baron. The baron being entertained made the comment that since S-A
didn't have many fighters, his barony should take it under protection.
The gentleman in question, realizing that he should defend the honour of
his baron and baroness, leaps to his feet, draws his sword, and promptly
drops it. He then picks it up, realizes that he shouldn't have drawn it
in the frist place, and juggles it around for a couple of minutes. At
this point a voice comes from the table saying "Behold the armed might of
Scraeling Althing!". The poor man has bourne that nickname ever since...
Dougall Scott, Canton of Greyfells
--
"All our kind is feared by mortals," the Shivan [Dragon] stated. "They
hunt us out of fear, out of the fear that ignorance provides. The result
is that when in need, few mortals will help our kind."
-- from The Dragonquest