Help w/deal w/ overzealous, jealous mean SCAr's
Tiny Bitz
been in the SCA for two years now, and mostly it's been fun. However
there are two women I know who constantly and consistantly belittle and
berate anyone who does anything better than them. These two people are
the most mean spirited folks I have ever met and yet they can make be just
as nice as apple pie. If someone gets an award for anything, both of
these women, will seprately make it their business to call me and tell me
how they have been doing this and that for the SCA for all these years and
never recieved anything for it. How supremely jealous I find of them.
They were actually upset because a household received awards because they
had great communication skills and really did the work that got the award.
I want to know, as I am a young woman of 22 years, how to deal with these
kind of folks, especially when your Lord is man at arms to one of them in
particular. It has nearly made me drop out of the SCA but I will damned
if I let someone else's sourpuss attitude affect my desire to be here. I
just need advice on how to deal with these kinds of people, because I ma
sure I am not the only one who has heard this before, so I know someone
has found a way to work around these people.
Truth be known, I would have already told these folks my opinion about
their attitude SCA wise, but I don't feel it diplomatic enough to convey
the message without ruining my Lord's chances.
Any help would be greatly appreciated and welcomed, please reply to me.
Thank you Kindly for your time and effort.
Tiny Bitz
rudi...@utdallas.edu
person somebody is complaining about, then the complainer is soon bored,
and eventually goes somewhere more fun.
"Last knight they gave Lady so-and-so an AoA!"
"Wonderful! She's always so cheerful."
"She's only been in for eight months."
"And already running a guild -- I didn't get involved that quickly."
"Her costumes are polyester."
"Yes, she's spent more time helping the barony than working on her own
clothes -- how generous."
Etc. Play the game of tennis, and return every volley. Enjoy it and
you'll outlast the other person.
But assume that she'll be talking about you in her next phone call --
maybe even to Lady So-and-so. When you find somebody talking about her,
by the way, do the same thing.
"Don't you hate Lady Bigmouth's gossip?"
"She cares a lot about the SCA, doesn't she?"
"She always insults other people's costumes."
"Well, she works hard, and that takes noticing details."
Etc. If you keep it up, you will soon have a reputation for liking
everyone, and the people who want to complain, go elsewhere.
The goal is not to change them, which is not likely. It is to convince
them that you're no fun to complain to.
Robin of Gilwell/Jay Rudin
Heather L. Garvey
>there are two women I know who constantly and consistantly belittle and
>berate anyone who does anything better than them. These two people are
>the most mean spirited folks I have ever met and yet they can make be just
>as nice as apple pie.
> I want to know, as I am a young woman of 22 years, how to deal with these
>kind of folks, especially when your Lord is man at arms to one of them in
>particular. It has nearly made me drop out of the SCA but I will damned
>if I let someone else's sourpuss attitude affect my desire to be here. I
The best thing to do is ignore them. Or pretend to
be listening to them and do the 'smile-and-nod' thing while actually
mentally plotting their painful deaths. :-) Or try to insert nice
things about the object of their scorn into the conversation, gently
but firmly. Or try to move the conversation on to something less
painful. Or do your damndest to avoid them when they are in that mood,
without being rude or cold.
But I'm sure you tried most of that.
If worst comes to worst, excuse yourself with a "Please excuse me,
but I don't think I should be gossiping like this." and move on to another
conversational group. Or look distressed and say "We shouldn't be
talking about So-and-So like this." and either excuse yourself or
see if that can steer the conversation away. Don't look like you're
lecturing them (if you are worried about reprisals), but rather that
it's your fault, that your delicate constitution can't handle
the fervent talk. :-)
You *can* outright tell them that it's not nice to talk
like that ALL the time, but you know the ladies involved better
than I and know how prudent that move would or would not be.
-- Maggie MacKenzie
--
Dani Eder
>I just want to know if I am the only one who thinks like this. I have
>been in the SCA for two years now, and mostly it's been fun. However
>there are two women I know who constantly and consistantly belittle and
>berate anyone who does anything better than them. These two people are
> I want to know, as I am a young woman of 22 years, how to deal with these
>kind of folks, especially when your Lord is man at arms to one of them in
>particular. It has nearly made me drop out of the SCA but I will damned
>if I let someone else's sourpuss attitude affect my desire to be here. I
>just need advice on how to deal with these kinds of people, because I ma
>sure I am not the only one who has heard this before, so I know someone
>has found a way to work around these people.
In my 18 years in the Society, I have had my share of 'difficult
people' to deal with, and I humbly submit my observations and opinions
in the hope that they will help:
(1) Many people forget to distinguish between the persona and the
person. Someone may be a pompous ass or a scoundrel in persona, and
quite a nice person when not in persona. You might ask these ladies
when not in persona about their persona's background and what made
their characters so envious of other's success. You can mentions that
the act they put on of being mean is so good, sometimes you forget
it's just an act.
(2) You can tell them you are not into politics and gossip. If you
were you would have chosen an Italian Renaissance persona (unless,
of course you did). If the people in question are lacking in courtesy
for others and modesty for themselves, then perhaps they are not
suitable teachers for your man-at-arms. For the road to true
knighthood is much more than just knowing how to fight well.
(3) Humanity in general is not perfect. While we have a dream of
a courteous and chivalrous Society, not everyone acts that way. We
can hope that on the whole we do better than modern society, and we
can resolve in our person to do so. I like to help people with
garb and other projects, and usually a thank you is sufficient. But
as happened recently someone asked my help in making garb,
and proceeded to sit and read books while I did all the work, and
later used my workshop till an ungodly late hour, leaving it
a mess, and then never once said thank you. I gritted my teeth,
held my tongue, have been polite to this person, and simply resolved
not to offer to help this person with projects in the future.
I tell myself I'm building moral character.
(4) In serious situations, letters of anti-recommendation can be
sent to the appropriate place. If someone is being truly nasty
and vindictive, they might not deserve a particular award they
are under consideration for.
(5) In our shire, we used to have a 'Stitch & Bitch' night on
the calendar. If you wanted to gossip and bitch, you did it there,
and people caould be told to save it for then if they tried to
start on something at fighter practice, business meeting, etc.
hose of us who have no interest in politics could then avoid that
night.
I hope you find something of use in my comments. If by chance
you will be at Pennsic, please feel free to look me up in the
Meridian encampment, to discuss these issues further.
Daniel of Raven's Nest
Josh Mittleman
I agree with Robin: The only way to deal malicious gossip is to refuse to
play the game. Don't humor the gossiper or sympathize: That just
encourages him. Don't argue with him: That is just another form of
encouragement. Change the subject or mutate it in positive directions. If
you can't do that, break off the conversation.
Arval
Tony Bassette
> ...
>there are two women I know who constantly and consistantly belittle and
>berate anyone who does anything better than them.
> I want to know, as I am a young woman of 22 years, how to deal with
these
>kind of folks, especially when your Lord is man at arms to one of them
in
>particular. It has nearly made me drop out of the SCA but I will damned
>if I let someone else's sourpuss attitude affect my desire to be here.
If you haven't spoken to your lord you might want to for two reasons.
First that he might be able to help. The second is he might want to
reconsider being a man at arms for a person like this. What if your or
he should receive a reward that they hadn't?
Other things to do : You might try quickly changing the subject to
something you know bores them? Distancing yourself from them might be
good. They sound like trouble waiting to happen.
Find other people more pleasing to spend time with.
I'm very glad to hear that you refuse let two bad apples drive you out of
the SCA and spoil your fun. I wish you luck.
Drakemire
Michael Greenstein
[A Tale of Two Ninnies edited out.]
Your best bet under the circumstances, assuming you prefer to avoid
direct confrontation (which, according to your description of their
character, would probably do no good), is to simply ignore them, thus
avoiding adding fuel to their endeavors. If they try to natter at
you about things you would prefer not to hear, simply tell them,
"Please forgive me, but I don't think it's fair to cut someone up behind
his or her back. I'm sorry you feel wronged, but I prefer not to
discuss that sort of thing."
Be prepared to be put on their blacklist... but do you really care?
All they do is discredit themselves with every derogatory comment.
There may be a large number of folks who feel as you do, but like you are
too courteous to say anything.
What I wonder is why your Lord has not said anything to them about this
obviously unchivalrous behavior. Does he know it bothers you? He should
be told, if not. Then you will get the golden opportunity to see where
his priorities truly lie... with an aspect of the game we all play (and
which far too many people take far too seriously), or with the Lady
who (one hopes) occupies his heart.
The other alternative I see is to seek out the local authority (seneschal,
whatever), and ask him/her to have a talk with the offenders, of the
"I've been hearing some complaints about your behavior" sort. But I
wouldn't count on it having much effect. Better to avoid wasting your
time and energy dealing with them outside of social contexts and basic
civility.
And if they decide to turn against you, that means they won't talk to
you any more, right? Sounds like a good solution to me.
Best of luck, m'lady.
===========================================================================
Michael Alewright of the Marche | a/k/a Michael Greenstein
|
Barony Marche of the Debatable Lands | zar...@platinum.nb.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I tell you this...
"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
- James, son of Morris
===========================================================================
Susan Carroll-Clark
Greetings!
>(4) In serious situations, letters of anti-recommendation can be
>sent to the appropriate place. If someone is being truly nasty
>and vindictive, they might not deserve a particular award they
>are under consideration for.
This is a step I would avoid at all costs, unless the Royalty or
whomever you are writing to know you personally and know that only an
extreme situation would provoke such a response. Even then, it would
be better to speak with the royals than write them. It just isn't
worth it, IMHO to besmirch your own reputation by doing a hatchet
job, even a deserved one, on someone else. Let their own behaviour
ensnare them. And if they do by chance get an undeserved award--
big whoopie. They'll be happy, but it will likely do nothing to change
their reputations.
From the description given, it sounds like there's a very good reason these
ladies have not gotten awards....because for most awards, someone
either has to recommend them or a polling order has to vote them in.
Cheers!
Nicolaa/Susan
Canton of Eoforwic
scl...@epas.utoronto.ca
Orilee Ireland-Delfs
keep reminding yourself that this type of attitude eventually
backfires and either the women will eventually get tired
of the fact that they are not being recognized for their
efforts(!) and will decide to play martyr and go away
or that they'll find very few people will actually communicate
with them and they'll be out in the cold socially.
Your lord might also reconsider his relationship with these
women, since it is as likely that he will be tagged with their
bad rep rather than they hurting his rep.
Tyr the polite cold shoulder, ignore them when you can, and remind
yourself that they are *not* what's good and wonderful about the SCA.
Orianna
Bob Carter
> I just want to know if I am the only one who thinks like this. I have
> been in the SCA for two years now, and mostly it's been fun. However
> there are two women I know who constantly and consistantly belittle and
> berate anyone who does anything better than them. These two people are
> the most mean spirited folks I have ever met and yet they can make be just
> as nice as apple pie. If someone gets an award for anything, both of
> these women, will seprately make it their business to call me and tell me
> how they have been doing this and that for the SCA for all these years and
> never recieved anything for it. How supremely jealous I find of them.
> They were actually upset because a household received awards because they
> had great communication skills and really did the work that got the award.
> I want to know, as I am a young woman of 22 years, how to deal with these
> kind of folks, especially when your Lord is man at arms to one of them in
> particular. It has nearly made me drop out of the SCA but I will damned
> if I let someone else's sourpuss attitude affect my desire to be here. I
> just need advice on how to deal with these kinds of people, because I ma
> sure I am not the only one who has heard this before, so I know someone
> has found a way to work around these people.
> Truth be known, I would have already told these folks my opinion about
> their attitude SCA wise, but I don't feel it diplomatic enough to convey
> the message without ruining my Lord's chances.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated and welcomed, please reply to me.
> Thank you Kindly for your time and effort.
> Tiny Bitz
>
>
Well, my advice, in this situation, would be merely to ignore them.
Outright avoidance would present a problem to you, since your Lord is a
Man at Arms to one of them, but that doesn't mean that you necessarily
HAVE to spend all of your time at events with these women. Indeed, it is
quite possible to avoid people without giving offense and creating more
difficulties. A simple "M'Lord, would you be gracious enough to escort me
to Merchant's Row?" can work sheer wonders when you wanna get away for a
while from gentles whose attitudes offend you.
Anyhoo, that's my two bits worth :)
Brother Alisdair MacArthur
Moth Eaten Order of St. Golias
Outlands
Glaveman
What you need is a can of Deep Wood's Fubawaba OFF!! These ladies are the
perfect example of a FUBAWABA (FUgly BroadAss With A Bad Attitude)
(Incidentally, this moniker no longer carries with it an insinuation that
the person labeled with said moniker is big as a barge, we have found that
the term is easily applied to anyone that is just real shitty, and the
older we get there are fewer people that look truly fat next to us)
I say cut your losses, now. Your Lord needs to look to a more suitable
mentor, and you need to be able to trust your Lord, should the viles of
these two demonic FUBS be focused in your direction.
Falcone Raasouli Ita Ravin