Membership Surcharge for paying by plastic
clark m wright
The latest issue of the Pikestaff has, as usuall, a membership renewal form
in the middle of it.
What I hadn't noticed was that there is a 2.00$ surcharge for paying by
MasterCard, Visa, and probably AmEx. This is illegal. Or more correctly, it
is a violation of the Visa/Mastercard agreement that the SCA had to sign in
order to take MasterCard and Visa. And it can result in them loosing the
ability and privilege of taking MasterCard and Visa, possibly *forever*.
So, who else is going to right to their MasterCard and Visa issuers and complain??
grins,
clark.
Barney O'Borg
(clark m wright) writes:
>What I hadn't noticed was that there is a 2.00$ surcharge for paying by
>MasterCard, Visa, and probably AmEx. This is illegal. Or more correctly, it
>is a violation of the Visa/Mastercard agreement that the SCA had to sign in
>order to take MasterCard and Visa. And it can result in them loosing the
>ability and privilege of taking MasterCard and Visa, possibly *forever*.
It is not necessarily a violation of a non-profit organization to pass
on a surcharge, since the organization gets charged a fee for the
"privilege" of having the use of MasterCard / Visa -- even _if_ no
charges are made or a hundred!
The non-profit sales group here at work also passes on a surcharge for
credit card use. Profits made are used for personnel recreation
(Spring / Fall Picnics, Christmas Party, support of local youth soccer
group, etc. -- not enough employees active to warrant a request of
funds to support local SCA group).
You'd have to get a copy of the agreement between the SCA, Inc. and
the credit card organization to see if passing a surcharge is in fact
illegal, which I doubt. And in any case, seeing as how the BoD is
dragging their collective feet on releasing supposedly public
documents for the membership to view, you'd have a snowball's chance
in Tartarus of getting a copy of the credit card agreement(s).
Moral of the story: Don't use your credit card to pay for membership.
Torcail
--
***** "A little rebellion now and then is a good thing; the *****
***** tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time *****
***** with the blood of patriots and tyrants." *****
***** Thomas Jefferson *****
Dennis O'Connor
] The latest issue of the Pikestaff has, as usuall, a membership renewal form
] in the middle of it.
]
] What I hadn't noticed was that there is a 2.00$ surcharge for paying by
] MasterCard, Visa, and probably AmEx. This is illegal. Or more correctly,
] it is a violation of the Visa/Mastercard agreement that the SCA had to
] sign in order to take MasterCard and Visa.
How do you know ? BOTH the cabs I paid for using my VISA card last
week added on a US$2 surcharge for credit card use. One was a Checker
cab, the other a Yellow cab : not fly-by-night cab companies !
Sound like more BS accusations to me.
--
Dennis O'Connor doco...@sedona.intel.com
Intel i960(R) Microprocessor Division Solely responsible for what I do.
"In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular."
clark m wright
I didn't get her name, told me that the 2$ fee was no longer required.
now, if I add it in by mistake will they fix it, or take it?
clark.
clark m wright (wri...@world.std.com) wrote:
: Well, the BOD is pulling even more fast and nasty money tricks -
Mark Schuldenfrei
How do you know ? BOTH the cabs I paid for using my VISA card last
week added on a US$2 surcharge for credit card use. One was a Checker
cab, the other a Yellow cab : not fly-by-night cab companies !
Sound like more BS accusations to me.
From the misc.consumers FAQ, which is researched pretty well (you can find
it on news.answers if you must have a copy, or for ftp at rtfm.mit.edu
Tibor
Q406. Can the merchant charge credit-card users more than cash customers
for the same item?
In a word, maybe. In a few more words, probably, if the merchant
goes about it the right way.
The Federal Truth-in-Lending Act prohibited surcharges on credit-
card purchases until 1984; since then, there has been no Federal law
on that subject. (Other provisions of the law are still in force.)
The states of CA, CO, CT, FL, KS, MA, ME, NY, OK, and TX have laws
against surcharges, according to Bankcard Holders of America.
Discover allows surcharges on credit-card purchases, except in the
above states. Visa and MasterCard prohibit them. American Express
discourages them in general, and specifically prohibits them by
merchants that also take MasterCard or Visa because Amex doesn't
allow merchants to discriminate against it.
There is a loophole: merchants are allowed to give cash discounts.
This means in practice that they can't charge you more than the
labeled price if you pay by credit card, but they can charge you
less if you pay cash. Some companies announce (usually in tiny
print in the catalog) that all prices "reflect cash discount" of x%
so credit-card users must pay x% more than the stated price; this
may be legal but it certainly violates the spirit of the law or the
regulations. I don't know about the "service fee" charged credit-
card users for things like ordering tickets over the phone, but
they're certainly not allowed to charge you a higher price in person
than if you pay cash.
The other loophole, according to Bankcard Holders of America (BHA),
is this. Certain government agencies are by law not allowed to pay
"discount fees," which are the processing fee the bank charges
merchants for handling credit-card slips. Since the banks won't
handle these for free, if your state lets you pay license fees by
credit card you may well have to pay a surcharge for the privilege.
However, BHA says that there are no exceptions for retail merchants.
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (sch...@math.harvard.edu)
Please excuse spelling errors or terseness: I am typing one-handed while my
left wrist heals.
F.L. Watkins
With our bank (which uses the Elan System), we must phone in all
mail order sales and any other sales exceeding a set amount (it
differs from card to card) and check the missing/stolen catalog
that is sent us every other week. If we do that, we get our
money.
BTW, I paid for my membership with plastic. It was a helluva
lot easier to fill out the form and run it thru the FAX machine
(even if Corporate apparently will not accept my signature on
the faxed form as a true signature).
Our local PBS station now offers premiums for persons paying
with plastic. Apparently it is a lot less hassle (and therefore
less expensive regardless of the 4-6% surcharge) than to demand
checks, etc.
Yrs, Folo
--
Damin de Folo - F.L.Watkins - fo...@prairinet.org
Baron Wurm Wald (MK) - Commander, Baldwin's Reg't, NWTA
Contrary to rumors, I don't live in the past--I just visit
Arval d'Espas Nord
> Bank cards are a point of purchase convenience...you accept them because
> you think a customer might not make a purhcase otherwise. Is membership
> an impulse item? Bank cards are not more credit worthy than checks...they
> can be overdrawn or expired, and the paperwork is more involved.
> So what was the rationale behind this?
All the big non-profits are using them. You wouldn't want the directors to
feel like they are just helping to run a small-scale game, would you?
===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord mit...@watson.ibm.com
Diana Parker
>Greetings from Megan!
<snip>
>I seriously question why on earth the cor[corp is using bankcards at all.
>Bank cards are a point of purchase convenience...you accept them because
>you think a customer might not make a purhcase otherwise. Is membership
>an impulse item? Bank cards are not more credit worthy than checks...they
>can be overdrawn or expired, and the paperwork is more involved.
>So what was the rationale behind this?
Customer convenience? As one who does not have a US dollar chequing
account I must say I found it _much_ more convenient to just collect the
signatures & fill out my credit card number when I sent off for our
memberships. Much more convenient than trying to run to the bank to get a
U.S. money order. Personally I didn't even mind paying the $2, even
though I could get the M.O. for free.
If you don't think that convenience is worth it, why do you as a merchant
offer that same convenience?
cheers,
Tabitha
--
----------------------------------------------
Diana Parker <par...@mcmail.mcmaster.ca>
Security Services CUC - 201
McMaster University (905) 525-9140 (x24282)
meg
As a merchant who accepts visa/mastercard, I can tell you that merchants
must pay a 4% fee per purchase for bank card purchases.
This means that if you are using a bank card to pay for your SCA
membership, you are costing them/us/yourself 4%.
I seriously question why on earth the cor[corp is using bankcards at all.
Bank cards are a point of purchase convenience...you accept them because
you think a customer might not make a purhcase otherwise. Is membership
an impulse item? Bank cards are not more credit worthy than checks...they
can be overdrawn or expired, and the paperwork is more involved.
So what was the rationale behind this?
Megan
==
In 1994: Linda Anfuso
In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive
In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644
YYY YYY
m...@tinhat.stonemarche.org | YYYYY |
|____n____|
Mark Schuldenfrei
I seriously question why on earth the cor[corp is using bankcards at all.
Bank cards are a point of purchase convenience...you accept them because
you think a customer might not make a purhcase otherwise. Is membership
an impulse item? Bank cards are not more credit worthy than checks...they
can be overdrawn or expired, and the paperwork is more involved.
So what was the rationale behind this?
I was under the impression that if you follow the regulations for your
clearinghouse, the charge was guarantteed to be paid. Is this not so?
Tibor
Aryk Nusbacher
visit to the bank or the post office.
Aryk Nusbacher
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
is for good men to do nothing. --Edmund Burke
--------------------------------------------------------------------
meg
> In article <RL0gLc...@tinhat.stonemarche.org> m...@tinhat.stonemarche.org (
I offer that convenience because there are many gentles at Pennsic who
don't have enough cash for unnecessary purchases like paintbrushes and
pigments, but who would gladly buy them with plastic if it means they
will have enough cash to get home with. It costs me 4% of each purchase,
a loss which I eat without regret because accepting plastic means I make
alot more sales I probably wouldn't make otherwise. My revenues almost
doubled last Pennsic, all through credit card sales. The most common
response was, "Yeah, I'd love to have a complete set of pigments, but I'm
a student, and I only brought enough money for food...oh, you accept
Visa? Well, I'll take them then. Make it two sets, myfriend back home
would like some too." Point of purchase impulse. Name of the game.
Contrast this to the very deliberate decision of whether or not to buy a
membership, which EXCEPT for foreign (non-U.S., sorry) folks can just as
easily be paid for by a check. It takes time for the check to be
processed by the Corporation, anyway, and it can be done anytime before
the end of a given month, so you can surely save up for it before hand as
easily as save up to pay it off after the fact. Processing a check means
stamping the back of it with an endorsement stamp, adding the totals of
all the checks, and depositing them with a deposit slip. Processing bank
cards involves alot more paperwork. Triplicate forms, archaic carbons,
silly cellophane batch envelopes, having a calculator tape tally besides
a merchant batch header card tally, totalling the number of the slips as
well, triplicate deposit slips, with the figures entered, dated, checking
account number on the merchant header form , and all signed, sealed, pand
and paperclipped, not stapled. Takes alot more time and effort. Not to
mention it looses the merchant 4% of the sales.
I guess what i am tryin to say is that if the Corp. is in such dire
straits, why deliberately give away 4% of the needed money? But your
point about non-U.S. funds is well taken, I must agree. Perhaps this
convenience should be extended only to non_U.S. members, all others pay
by check or money order?
On a lighter note...The most strange moment for me at Pennsic last year
was when Cariodoc purchased a period wax tablet using a credit card. He
got wax, I got carbon paper. The mind reels. It was wonderful.
Dave Calafrancesco
DO> wri...@world.std.com (clark m wright) writes:
DO> ] Well, the BOD is pulling even more fast and nasty money
DO> tricks - ]
DO> ] The latest issue of the Pikestaff has, as usuall, a
DO> membership renewal form ] in the middle of it.
DO> ]
DO> ] What I hadn't noticed was that there is a 2.00$ surcharge
DO> for paying by ] MasterCard, Visa, and probably AmEx. This
DO> is illegal. Or more correctly, ] it is a violation of the
DO> Visa/Mastercard agreement that the SCA had to ] sign in
DO> order to take MasterCard and Visa.
DO> How do you know ? BOTH the cabs I paid for using my VISA
DO> card last week added on a US$2 surcharge for credit card
DO> use. One was a Checker cab, the other a Yellow cab : not
DO> fly-by-night cab companies !
DO> Sound like more BS accusations to me.
Dennis, before accusing someone of making BS accusations, try calling a credit
card company. They do in fact have a rule that states that there is to be NO
SURCHARGE for using a card over paying with any other method. This however
does little to stop the rampant abuses of this rule. As the BoD has shown us,
just because it says (in the rules) that they have to do it the way they
agreed, doesn't mean they will.
If you want to have lots of fun with the cab companies, show VISA or MC your
bill and ask them to explain this extra charge you paid. They will probably go
suitably ballistic and revoke the cab companies merchant status. What a lot of
companies have attempted is to use a discount for paying cash but that works
out to paying the same amount for the same level of non-service. Kinda like
pay to play, same crap, different name, just as wrong.
Haraldr Bassi, Frosted Hills, East
har...@rochgte.fidonet.org
Dave Calafrancesco, Team OS/2, Fido 1:272/54
As I own the company and this BBS, I can pound salt if I don't like my views,
but they are still my views, not that of my office.
Tony Luck
> Dennis, before accusing someone of making BS accusations, try calling a
> credit card company. They do in fact have a rule that states that there
> is to be NO SURCHARGE for using a card over paying with any other
> method. This however does little to stop the rampant abuses of this
> rule. As the BoD has shown us, just because it says (in the rules) that
> they have to do it the way they agreed, doesn't mean they will.
Credit card companies seem to delight in negotiating individual contracts
with the merchants that want to accept plastic. Terms vary (e.g. the
percentage cut that the credit card company takes out of the transaction)
but the "thou shalt not charge extra for using the card" seems pretty
universal.
> If you want to have lots of fun with the cab companies, show VISA or MC
> your bill and ask them to explain this extra charge you paid. They will
> probably go suitably ballistic and revoke the cab companies merchant
> status.
I tried this once with VISA after a hotel stuck an extra 5% on my bill
when I paid by plastic. VISA agreed that this was against their rules,
but didn't seem enthusiastic about doing anything about it (after all I
was the one that had paid the surcharge ... they hadn't lost a penny on
the transaction (in fact they made more money as they got their usual
percentage cut of the extra 5%) ... if they rushed out and revoked the
hotels merchant status then they would lose all further business with
the hotel, rather than the occasional case where someone happens to have
enough cash at the end of their stay and so doesn't use VISA).
-Tony Luck a.k.a. Anthony fitz Robert
KGO...@artspas.watstar.uwaterloo.ca
>I seriously question why on earth the cor[corp is using bankcards at all.
>Bank cards are a point of purchase convenience...you accept them because
>you think a customer might not make a purhcase otherwise. Is membership
>an impulse item? Bank cards are not more credit worthy than checks...they
>can be overdrawn or expired, and the paperwork is more involved.
>So what was the rationale behind this?
For some of us a getting a membership means actually getting to your bank
when they're open and getting a money order in US funds. I find a credit
card option much more convenient. Though I would have gotten a membership
anyways. Often the cost of a money order is greater than the cost for the
credit card.
Eyrny