Women who Fight in the SCA
Sir Kief
kingdoms about women not being allowed to fight or men who do their
best discourage (ie. try to beat the **** out of them) women from
fighting. I am interested in whether the climate has changed in areas
that used to discourage women fighting or if the double standard still
exists.
Lorraine DeerSlayer
Barony of Raven's Fort, Kingdom of Ansteorra
I'm also interested in finding out how many female knights there are
other than Sir Ciff and Sir Rowan.
BRIGHID616
don't like to lose to you. That of course is a broad generalization. I
also will go as far as to generalize that the more female fighters in the
area, the better the acceptance.
Lady Brighid the Ageless
Herald of the Barony of Andelcrag
Inhabitant of the canton of Rimsholt
Dorothy J Heydt
In article <3jg1hm$3...@pip.shsu.edu>, Sir Kief <std...@shsu.edu> wrote:
>I'm also interested in finding out how many female knights there are
>other than Sir Ciff and Sir Rowan.
Over a dozen at last count. Among them:
Hilary of Serendip
Maythen Gervais
Trude Lacklandia
The only female Masster at Arms:
Gwenllian Rhiannon
--Hal Ravn
(Hal Heydt)
JkrissW
other than Sir Ciff and Sir Rowan.
>>
Well, there's Sir Andrea here in Caid, and I had the good fortune to meet
Sir Trude a few years ago at an Outlandish event. I'm sure there are
others I've met or heard of whose names slip my recollection at this time.
Daveed of Granada, AoA, CHA
From the Barony of Lyondemere in fair Caid
mka J. Kriss White in smoggy L.A.
jkr...@aol.com
John R. Schmidt
><<I'm also interested in finding out how many female knights there are
>other than Sir Ciff and Sir Rowan.
>Well, there's Sir Andrea here in Caid, and I had the good fortune to meet
>Sir Trude a few years ago at an Outlandish event. I'm sure there are
>others I've met or heard of whose names slip my recollection at this time.
>
Master, Mistress of the Pelican; Viscountess Hilary of Serendip, Knight,
Mistress of the Pelican, Mistress of the Laurel; Dame Boverick Momchilovich;
Sir Fern (in Atlantia). This is in no way a definative list.
Cheers,
John Theophilous
Bitte...@aol.com
Dear Brighid,
As a female fighter, I've found, that women have more trouble taking my shots
then men. Now, I can only guess this is because there are so few female
fighters out there that they're used to fighting men, and have higher
calibrations(sp) because they fight mainly men, who hit harder, and expect to
be hit harder.
I'd hate to think it's a macho problem, but, it certainly could be, in some
cases.
Respectfully,
Bitter
Garrloch
the last 9 years, anyone who wanted to learn has been encouraged, m/f/?,
we didn't really care. Some take extra patience w/females, but by and
large, all are encouraged.
Gar of Loch Carron,
rec.org.sca
Kel Rekuta
now living in Atlantia. She may have been the first female knight
in the stuffy Middle kingdom. The way things are, maybe the last.
PS The Middle Kingdom chivalry has heard this before from others as well
as myself. HINT HINT :}
Ceallach Cumeallain
Joe Bethancourt
: I have heard many horror stories from the past and from other
Certainly no problem here in Central Atenveldt!
Of course, this is where Mistress Trude Lacklandia (the first female knight
of the SCA) calls home ......
--
lock...@indirect.com PO Box 35190 Locksley Plot Systems
White Tree Productions Phoenix, AZ 85069 USA CyberMongol Ltd
"Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
at best it will break your heart, at worst, get you dead."
song lyrics at ftp/nau/edu /sca/ioseph or at http://mac9.ucc.nau.edu
John D Krueger
An incomplete roster of the lady Knights I have known:
Sir Trude Lacklandia -- originally Atenveldt
Sir Cyf and
Duchess Rowan -- both Ansteorra
Sir Hillary of Serendip -- West
Syr Fern de Floret -- originally Middle and now Atlantia
I would welcome additions to this list.
Johannes, Barony Andlecrag, Middle
John Krueger, Kalamazoo, MI
Lisa Steele
the archers.
Michael Huston
D Krueger) writes:
>A few additions which I know of (please forgive any misspellings):
Sir Bolverk Momchiliavich
Viscountess Sir Maythen of Elfhaven
Countess Sir Andrea of Clearmount
Lady Sir Mary of Uffington
Viscountess Sir Leah de Spencer
The titles may be too humble (my info is not current and the fighters
mentioned are most able), but I hope this helps. BTW, I believe there's
a Mistress-at-Arms around somewhere too, but I can't remember her name.
Sir Michael the Lucky
David Moore
> [Hal posting from Dorothy's account....]
> In article <3jg1hm$3...@pip.shsu.edu>, Sir Kief <std...@shsu.edu> wrote:
> >I'm also interested in finding out how many female knights there are
> >other than Sir Ciff and Sir Rowan.
>
>
Dafydd
Laurel Hess
event over a decade ago. She was An Tir's first female knight.
M. Gyelle
---
* OLX 2.1 TD * Photons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic.
Arval d'Espas Nord
Greetings from Arval! Sir Michael Lucky listed:
> Viscountess Sir Maythen of Elfhaven
> Countess Sir Andrea of Clearmount
> Lady Sir Mary of Uffington
> Viscountess Sir Leah de Spencer
I can understand why people use combinations like "Countess Sir" (even
though it is not a medieval usage; they would have said either "Sir Andrea
of Clearmount, Countess" or "Countess Andrea of Clearmount, Knight").
But what is the purpose of "Lady Sir Mary"? "Lady" means that the good
lady has received an AoA; but "Sir" tells us that she has subsequently been
promoted to a Patent of Arms. The patent, grant, and award of arms are not
separate awards; they are three ranks of the same award. Calling some
"Lady Sir" is like calling a recently-promoted military officer "Lieutenant
Captain".
Would it ever occur to you to call a man "Lord Sir"? I doubt it.
===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord mit...@panix.com
jari james
Jk>
Jk> other than Sir Ciff and Sir Rowan.
Let's see... here in An Tir we have Lady Bovirk [she specifically stated
the title 'Lady' during her nighting ceremony... don't make the mistake
of calling her 'Sir'] and Sir Crissient [sp?]. And with the number of
female fighters we've been seeing over the years, more to come.
Rowan
Barony of Blatha an Oir
An Tir
Order of the Oleander x 2
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
Andrea Thompson
Huston) writes:
Regarding the list of female chivalry, I would also like to submit the
name of:
Countess Sir Erika Bjornsdottir of Trimaris
Thanks you,
Lady Andrea of Lancaster
Tom Courtney
> I'm also interested in finding out how many female knights there are
> other than Sir Ciff and Sir Rowan.
The ones I can remember are Methan, Trudy Lacklandia, Hilary, Bulverk,
Fern, and Andrea.
Tom Courtney
aka Vissevald Selkirksson
IVA...@delphi.com
Quoting mittle from a message in rec.org.sca
> Greetings from Arval! Sir Michael Lucky listed:
> > Viscountess Sir Maythen of Elfhaven
> > Countess Sir Andrea of Clearmount
> > Lady Sir Mary of Uffington
> > Viscountess Sir Leah de Spencer
> I can understand why people use combinations like "Countess Sir" (even
> though it is not a medieval usage; they would have said either "Sir
>Andrea of Clearmount, Countess" or "Countess Andrea of Clearmount,
>Knight").
When did the German usages like "Herr Professor Doktor" begin to be used?
BTW I agree wholeheartedly about Lady Sir Mary. Especially since the usual
form is to begin with the title of highest rank, and all the others (here
and in my experience) drop Lord or Lady when a higher rank is achieved.
Of course, we do have a Lady Lady in our Barony, but that's a joke based on
her having been awarded arms in two reigns.
Carolyn Boselli Host of Custom Forum 35 SCAdians on Delphi
If you're not new at something, you're not growing.
Stitcher's favorite drink--Sewda!
Rainbow V 1.13.0 for Delphi - Registered
James Prescott
: Lorraine DeerSlayer
: Barony of Raven's Fort, Kingdom of Ansteorra
: I'm also interested in finding out how many female knights there are
: other than Sir Ciff and Sir Rowan.
Two in An Tir:
Sir Bolverk of Momchilovich and Sir Crisiant ferch Eirian.
Dorothy J Heydt
In article <3ju623$4...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,
Andrea Thompson <Andr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>The titles may be too humble (my info is not current and the fighters
>>mentioned are most able), but I hope this helps. BTW, I believe
>there's
>>a Mistress-at-Arms around somewhere too, but I can't remember her name.
No, actually there isn't--but I'm about to confuse you. The lady
*insists* that she is properly...
Viscountess Gwenllion Rhiannon, *Master*-of-Arms.
So, you see, there isn't any "Mistress-of-Arms" in the Society.
--Hal Ravn
(Hal Heydt)
Dan Judd
****Sarcasm alert*****
Hi, I am a member of the horribly stuffy MidRealm, where fun, fair play,
and consideration for elevation based on merit have been officially banned
by royal decree for the past 10 years. Originally started during the
reign of Theoderick the Bland, the popularity of the movement snowballed
quickly, supplemented heartily by the following reign of Analawyn the
Retentant. These ground breaking individuals who gave out the first
laurels in double entry bookkeeping, floor waxing, and water purification,
still hold huge popular sway to this day. As well they should, Theoderick
can still spot most of the populace 3 blinks and still win stare down
tournaments handily. Analawyn is still up tight enough to easily bend
quarters with his sphincter, though age has taken its toll and he is no
longer able to bend dimes without great strain.
Fighting no longer consists of attempting to strike an opponent with a
wooden blade. Rather it is now a full contact ego assault where
combatants verbally pick apart the armor of the other until one is
suitably humbled as judged by the marshals (who rig everything in advance
anyway to prevent "embarrassments"). The most recent crown finals were
quite gripping. Terrik the Articulent exploited a poorly documented flaring
of a fleur-de-lis on Paul the Pedantic's gauntlet and was about to deliver
the coup de grace when Paul noticed Terrick's torque had a forward chaining
stitch rather than a back chain appropriate for the period of his helm.
Paul was then able to handily crush Terrik and rise to the position of Tanist.
The reason women are still allowed to fight at all is most current effort
in the MidRealm being spent on the replacement of the dragon on all our
regalia with a large stick in the mud. Once completed I am sure this
problem with be righted.
****Sarcasm over with*****
Seriously, it appears you either believe that we should have separate
standards for women fighters than men, something I have NEVER heard ANY woman
support. Would you support separate standard for different ethnic groups
as well, how about left handers?
Or perhaps you know a female that you believe should be awarded the accolade.
I, personally, have not seen any female fighter currently in the MidRealm
that I believe has knight quality skill. I know several that are good
fighters and worthy to be invited to Crown Tournement and/or be made
members of the Red Company (our mid-level fighting award). I expect
that some will eventually achieve that level, but currently none I have
seen do. If there are any deserving, I expect the Chivalry have not
seen them either, so perhaps the individual merely needs to travel a bit more.
I am not a member of the Chivalry, so you can make what you will of my opinion.
Rye Skyther
-----------
Dan Judd
dan...@cps.msu.edu
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his
hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
Mencken, H. L. (1880-1956)
Prejudices_ 1
Paul Kay
In article <3jvleu$m...@news1.delphi.com>, IVA...@delphi.com writes:
> BTW I agree wholeheartedly about Lady Sir Mary. Especially since the usual
> form is to begin with the title of highest rank, and all the others (here
> and in my experience) drop Lord or Lady when a higher rank is achieved.
>
> Of course, we do have a Lady Lady in our Barony, but that's a joke based on
> her having been awarded arms in two reigns.
>
by the same Royals, in the same reign. They did wait a couple (OK, 3)
months between them.
Aren't courts fun? (I know keeping track of them is. Sigh)
Bart the Bewildered
Carillion, East
(Speaking as a Baron who gave out the local baronial award twice to
3 people because of a break down in the local files. You have
company now, Fiacha)
--
Paul Kay k...@unx.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation sysv::kay
Manalapan, NJ (UNX) (908) 577-6076 (DTN 462)
Ronald L. Charlotte
: Aren't courts fun? (I know keeping track of them is. Sigh)
: Bart the Bewildered
: Carillion, East
: (Speaking as a Baron who gave out the local baronial award twice to
: 3 people because of a break down in the local files. You have
: company now, Fiacha)
I know the feeling; at our investiture, we doubled up on the Barony's
primier service award to no less than our Kingdom Principal Pelican
(that's ok, at least we confused him), for much the same reason.
--
al Thaalibi -- An Crosaire, Trimaris
Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
afn0...@freenet.ufl.edu or roncha...@delphi.com
Tim Troupe
Ailithir
Geoffrey Brent
>
>I know the feeling; at our investiture, we doubled up on the Barony's
>primier service award to no less than our Kingdom Principal Pelican
>(that's ok, at least we confused him), for much the same reason.
And at Purgatorio last year, the heralds accidentally announced the
massed Pelicans as the company of the Order of the Laurel... the
reversal of that announcement could hardly be heard over the Pelicans'
cries of "The king's word is law ! The king's word is law !"
Geoffrey the Quiet
--
(gbr...@rsc.anu.edu.au, gbr...@laplace.anu.edu.au)
Diana Parker
>That's funny, we have a Lord Lord in our group. He was awarded Arms twice,
>by the same Royals, in the same reign. They did wait a couple (OK, 3)
>months between them.
We had a Lord Lord in our group. Same Royals, same reign, same event!
To be fair, it was a different by-name on each scroll.
Cheers
Tabitha
--
----------------------------------------------
Diana Parker <par...@mcmail.mcmaster.ca>
Security Services CUC - 201
McMaster University (905) 525-9140 (x24282)
Susan Carroll-Clark
Greetings!
But isn't knighthood more than just skill on the field--or more
specifically in tournies? How about chivalry and honour? What about
leadership qualities, or skill in leading teams? Is "knighthood-level
skill" a quantitative thing? And if so, why do some really "butt-kicking"
fighters never get knighted?
I think you know the answer to these questions. Knighthood should
never be a simple given when a fighter gets to a certain skill level.
Likewise, a fighter who perhaps isn't Crown finalist calibre, but is a
skilled fighter AND exceptional for other reasons (like those mentioned
above) should be considered for the accolade. Besides, I'm of the opinion
that the world needs more knights--especially the type that are inspired
leaders on and off the field. Leadership and skill should be equally
important.
Not a knight, nor a squire....just an antenna jock (or jane, in this case...)
Nicolaa/Susan
Canton of Eoforwic
scl...@epas.utoronto.ca
Susan Carroll-Clark
The Principality of Ealdormere has an A&S award known as the Golden
Otter. It's an order...you're only supposed to be inducted once. A lady
from our group, Catriona Gower of York, has received it twice, and thus
has the pleasure of being Ealdormere's only Twin Otter (insert airplane
noises here...)
Cheers!
DOK KSCA
And as for female knights, here's one that seems to have been overlooked,
Sir Mary of Uffington, Kingdom of the West.
Derrick of Kent, KSCA, Caid
MAN...@delphi.com
Quoting parkerd from a message in rec.org.sca
> In article <3k4p9u$8...@jac.zko.dec.com>, Paul Kay <k...@unx.dec.com>
> wrote:
> >That's funny, we have a Lord Lord in our group. He was awarded
> >Arms twice, by the same Royals, in the same reign. They did
> >wait a couple (OK, 3) months between them.
> We had a Lord Lord in our group. Same Royals, same reign, same event!
> To be fair, it was a different by-name on each scroll.
> Cheers
> Tabitha
We had a Lady Lady in our Barony (or was it still a shire then, I can't
remember that far back :).
Same event, same name!!!!!!
To be fair, it was different royals ... it was at a coronation.
Pretending to be of service
Emrys
David Mann MAN...@delphi.com
Rainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered
Colin Yemm
--
Colin Yemm "It's not gator tolerance, it's poodle control"
Paramedic, LifeFleet A society that needs disclaimers has too
SysAdmin, COHPA - U.C.F. many lawyers.
Cynan and Tess
And also, if I remember correctly, only the second female Knight ever in
the Society.
Can anyone check me on this?
Cynan,
- hoping for the priviledge of personally *watching* a Lady win the
Crown by her own hand...
P.S. - Yes, I know it's been done - the 2 lady Knights who've won Coronets,
Maythen & Gwenllian, are local & friends of mine; nor am I unaware of the
even grander accomplishment of Sir Rowan. But *I* didn't get to *see it*!
Does anyone have films/videotapes of any of these three events,
particularly the Finals of each? I'd greatly appreciate the chance to
obtain copies...
Georgiana Schultz
Atenveldt has a knight who is female from WAY back there... Mistress/Sir Leah of Loch
Salann.. I thought she was like # 3 or something... not sure..
Cystennin Ap Gareth of Drafn, Esq.
Barony of Califia, Kingdom of Caid
"Home of the Iron Brigade"
Bill McNutt
>One point of order: Lady Mary has expressed distaste for the
>appelation "Sir" being applied to female knights; "Sir" seems
>to imply that the lady is fulfilling a male role, whereas
>leaving the title as "Lady" acknowledges that the skill and
>other qualifications for knighthood are simply part of who
>the lady is.
I can support that. I have no problem with women strapping on armour, beating
people upside the head, acting in a chivalrous manner, getting whopped on the
shoulder with a sword in the name of St. George, and wearing golden spurs.
But the phrase "Sir Mary" makes my skin crawl.
Call me old-fashioned, but it just doesn't soar.
John William Chambless
>> And as for female knights, here's one that seems to have been overlooked,
>> Sir Mary of Uffington, Kingdom of the West.
In article <Pine.NEB.3.91.95032...@atticus.com>,
Cynan and Tess <the...@atticus.com> wrote:
>And also, if I remember correctly, only the second female Knight ever in
>the Society.
>Can anyone check me on this?
Since I have the great honor of knowing Lady Mary, I can indeed
verify, from her own word, that she is both the second female
knight in the SCA and the youngest person knighted by the SCA,
at least at that time.
One point of order: Lady Mary has expressed distaste for the
appelation "Sir" being applied to female knights; "Sir" seems
to imply that the lady is fulfilling a male role, whereas
leaving the title as "Lady" acknowledges that the skill and
other qualifications for knighthood are simply part of who
the lady is.
I'd respectfully suggest to all the gentlefolk here that they
know and respect the wishes of any lady knight in this matter
of titles. In the case of Lady Mary, to be sure, she is
a force to be reckoned with, and the wise anger her not.
--
* Sandoz the Ancient -- neither SCAdian nor mundane
* cham...@whale.st.usm.edu
* In Real Life: Billy Chambless
Jay Brandt
MCN...@gateway.ce.utk.edu (Bill McNutt) wrote:
> In article <3l6une$13...@whale.st.usm.edu> cham...@whale.st.usm.edu
(John William Chambless) writes:
> >One point of order: Lady Mary has expressed distaste for the
> >appelation "Sir" being applied to female knights; "Sir" seems
> >to imply that the lady is fulfilling a male role, whereas
> >leaving the title as "Lady" acknowledges that the skill and
> >other qualifications for knighthood are simply part of who
> >the lady is.
>
> I can support that. I have no problem with women strapping on armour,
beating
> people upside the head, acting in a chivalrous manner, getting whopped on the
> shoulder with a sword in the name of St. George, and wearing golden spurs.
>
> But the phrase "Sir Mary" makes my skin crawl.
>
> Call me old-fashioned, but it just doesn't soar.
I've always preferred the British convention. A woman who is knighted in
England is known as 'Dame'. Many lady fighters I have spoken with have
said that they would prefer this to 'Sir' should they ever win their
spurs.
A few have found the title 'Dame' unappealing, however. Sir Boverik of
Montchillovich was one such woman. (I slaughtered the spelling of her name
there, I am sure, and for that I beg forgiveness). It has been a long time
since I last spoke with her, but I seem to recall that she once told me
that she chose to use 'Sir' because she didn't like the connotations of
'Dame' or 'Mistress'.
--
Regards, Jay Brandt --- Austin, Texas, USA --- <rze...@email.sps.mot.com>
Motorola -------- Advanced Products Research and Development Labs (APRDL)
In the SCA, HLS Jason of Rosaria, JdL, GdS, AoA --------- (Member # 3016)
Owner / Designer / Craftsman ------------------------- Bear Paw Woodworks
*** I do not speak for my employer, spouse, or anyone else. Just me. ***
Laurie Brandt
<Pine.SUN.3.91.950308060454...@spider.lloyd.com>,
David Moore <da...@spider.lloyd.com> wrote:
> > [Hal posting from Dorothy's account....]
> > In article <3jg1hm$3...@pip.shsu.edu>, Sir Kief <std...@shsu.edu> wrote:
> > >I'm also interested in finding out how many female knights there are
> > >other than Sir Ciff and Sir Rowan.
Here is a list that appered in Flower of Souvenace Vol 1 no 2 Nov 1987 p52
Trude Lacklandia (Trude Duckworth), Mary of Uffington (Mary Rowe),
Maythen of Elfhaven (DSana Kramer-Rolls) Cbdera if Clearmount, Cyf
O'Donnell (snja Ross) Bolverk Monchilivich, Hilary of Serendip (Hilda
Powers) Leah DeSpencer, Leah Spencer) Fern de'La' Foret (Lorraine Erikson.
I know of several other that were Knighted in An Tir I will post them when
I find them.
--
The attitude of unhappinesses is not only painful, it is mean and uglyŠ
It but fastens and perpetuates the trouble which occasioned it, and increases the total evil of the situation. -William James-
Laurie E. W. Brandt|aka Her Ladyship, Pegasus Devona, A.o.A., G.d's.
5814 Gloucester Ln.| Barony of Bryn Gwlad, Kingdom of Ansteorra
Austin, Tx 78723 |Gules, a pegasus rampent within a bourder argent.
|Society for Creative Anachronism Membership #04720
Suze Hammond
JB> MCN...@gateway.ce.utk.edu (Bill McNutt) wrote:
> In article <3l6une$13...@whale.st.usm.edu> cham...@whale.st.usm.edu
> > (John William Chambless) writes:
> >One point of order: Lady Mary has expressed distaste for the
> >appelation "Sir" being applied to female knights; "Sir" seems
> >to imply that the lady is fulfilling a male role, whereas
> >leaving the title as "Lady" acknowledges that the skill and
> >other qualifications for knighthood are simply part of who
> >the lady is.
>
> I can support that. I have no problem with women strapping on armour,
> beating people upside the head, acting in a chivalrous manner, getting
> whopped on the shoulder with a sword in the name of St. George, and
> wearing golden spurs.
>
> But the phrase "Sir Mary" makes my skin crawl.
>
> Call me old-fashioned, but it just doesn't soar.
Well, I'd call you "Victorian" rather than "old fashioned", because that's
a Victorian ideal, not medieval. I'm not certain why it should bother
everybody so much that women sometimes fulfill male roles. Our medieval
ancestors don't seem to have made the same distinctions, at least not all
the time. QE I seems to have, according to some documents, really been
"king" of England (although Victoria insisted on being queen). Those few
women who were warlords (the "ancestral" position to knight) used whatever
the word was in their language, usually masculine. Those few women who
seem to have belonged to the great orders of knighthood in their own right
seem to be impossible to pick out in the records, so by late period people
were obviously beginning to develop this cultural "need" to categorize by
sex with a separate appellation, but if such people existed before that,
it wasn't given a special title. We don't find "knightess" (which seems
the logical construction) like we find "baroness". Rosie the Riveter
wasn't called "Rosie the Rivetress" in our own time, and Rosie looked as
feminine as she could in a welding mask, in all those WWII posters.
If it somehow magically made you the gender of the word you were called,
all those people forced by necessity into jobs/roles usually performed by
the opposite sex would have noticed by now, I'm sure. All this unease with
this sort of thing strikes me more as some sort of unconscious homophobia,
than a matter of "proper English". (No offense to the writers above. This
is not a personal value judgement, merely a long-term observation of the
human condition.)
JB> I've always preferred the British convention. A woman who is knighted
JB> in England is known as 'Dame'. Many lady fighters I have spoken with
JB> have said that they would prefer this to 'Sir' should they ever win
JB> their spurs.
JB> A few have found the title 'Dame' unappealing, however. Sir Boverik of
JB> Montchillovich was one such woman. (I slaughtered the spelling of her
JB> name there, I am sure, and for that I beg forgiveness). It has been a
JB> long time since I last spoke with her, but I seem to recall that she
JB> once told me that she chose to use 'Sir' because she didn't like the
JB> connotations of 'Dame' or 'Mistress'.
JB> --
JB> Regards, Jay Brandt --- Austin, Texas, USA ---
The SCA has found -nobody- who wants Dame badly enough to continue to
protect it for female knights, and it has been released for use by the
other peerages. That's just how unpopular it is with female members of the
Chivalry. Methinks if you are a woman and a Knight of the SCA, and this
does bother you, I would suggest you become a Mistress at Arms.
Unambiguous, historic title, that.
... This brief over-generalization brought to you by: Moreach, who else?
Dorothy J Heydt
Suze Hammond <Suze.H...@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org> wrote:
[Much deleted about preferred titles for women in the Order of
Chivalry and in routine Fealty.... --whh]
>The SCA has found -nobody- who wants Dame badly enough to continue to
>protect it for female knights, and it has been released for use by the
>other peerages. That's just how unpopular it is with female members of the
>Chivalry. Methinks if you are a woman and a Knight of the SCA, and this
>does bother you, I would suggest you become a Mistress at Arms.
>Unambiguous, historic title, that.
And, so far, the only lady entitled to that usage has rejected it
and insists that she is a *Master* of Arms. (Since she is also a
Viscountess by virtue of her own efforts, I am disinclined to
argue the point.)
--Hal Ravn
(Hal Heydt)