TRIP REPORT - SUNNY REST LODGE in PA
ORDOVER
The facilities were just fine. The heated pool is great, the motel rooms
comfy, etc.
We found the service to be not all that great, and the food at the restaurant
tastely but overpriced and with small portions.
But the real problem was one of - I guess you could call it "tone." This is
the first nudist place my wife and I have been to where we felt "checked out."
While I called and they confirmed that they weren't a swinger place, and they
had notes and signs warning against that kind of activity in public, my wife
all but walked in on a four-way sex thing in the hot tub.
We're wondering if others have felt this way about SRL.
John
John Ordover
JayMagoo
That's Sunny Rest, all right. The regulars divide each other into the
"players" and the "non-players." Poolside on weekends becomes somewhat frantic
as the hustle goes on. We were comfortably settled into beach chairs poolside
when three attractive women settled near us. I pretty much ignored them, our
attention was with our small group.
However when I went into the water, we found that our chairs had been
appropriated by a series of young men all furiously on the hustle for the
girls. The rudeness was impossible to ignore and the swinging activity kept up
at a frantic pace. It didn't ruin our time at Sunny Rest, but we did retreat
to our campers and stayed away from the pool until the activities ceased and
moved into the dance floor.
The swingers all seem to be from the New York City area, a place known for its
aggressive manners, perhaps that was why they seemed extra obnoxious.
You can have fun at Sunny Rest if you don't mind the frantic swinger activity
all around you. It's a big enough place. But be forewarned.
JM
Kathleen
>Date: 7/27/03 9:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030727121238...@mb-m11.aol.com>
There you go ANOTHER example of what Jonz and I are trying to tell you all.
another unsuspectiong innocent person having to have been subjected to that.
Where was management? and these were COUPLEs not singles making trouble.
Deny all you want but it does go on and it isn't fair to innocents not to warn
them so they can make better choices.
Kathleen
"Peace of mind is not the absence of conflict from life, but the ability to
cope with it."
Kathleen
>"players" and the "non-players." Poolside on weekends becomes somewhat
>frantic
>as the hustle goes on. We were comfortably settled into beach chairs
>poolside
>when three attractive women settled near us. I pretty much ignored them, our
>attention was with our small group.
>
>However when I went into the water, we found that our chairs had been
>appropriated by a series of young men all furiously on the hustle for the
>girls. The rudeness was impossible to ignore and the swinging activity kept
>up
>at a frantic pace. It didn't ruin our time at Sunny Rest, but we did retreat
>to our campers and stayed away from the pool until the activities ceased and
>moved into the dance floor.
>
>The swingers all seem to be from the New York City area, a place known for
>its
>aggressive manners, perhaps that was why they seemed extra obnoxious.
>
>You can have fun at Sunny Rest if you don't mind the frantic swinger activity
>all around you. It's a big enough place. But be forewarned.
>
>JM
>
I sure hope they don't allow children at that place. Not a good place for them.
Lisa
news:20030727220825...@mb-m17.aol.com...
If the place is as bad as John Ordover and Jay Magoo say it is, and I have
no reason to doubt them, then the resort really should let people know that
it's more than swinger friendly. I'd be a little ticked off if I thought I
was going to be spending a day at a family resort but instead had to worry
about spooge in the hot tub.
It's one thing to not tell people that swingers may be there if the swingers
are discreet, but yeah, if people are doing it in the open like that and
management doesn't let you know, then they shouldn't be an AANR club.
Kathleen
>no reason to doubt them, then the resort really should let people know that
>it's more than swinger friendly. I'd be a little ticked off if I thought I
>was going to be spending a day at a family resort but instead had to worry
>about spooge in the hot tub.
>
>It's one thing to not tell people that swingers may be there if the swingers
>are discreet, but yeah, if people are doing it in the open like that and
>management doesn't let you know, then they shouldn't be an AANR club.
>
>
Exactly
ORDOVER
particularly ticked me off was that I called them and -asked- if they were a
family-friendly nudist resort, and they told me they were. I told them we
wanted to avoid swingers and they told me that wouldn't be a problem.
Just to be clear, the hot tub is indoors and has a door you can close. But the
real problem was that Friday night, it was clearly a "choose your partners"
square dance that we were not interested in and annoyed and made uncomfortable
by. We also got dirty looks for having brought our baby.
Just to be clear: What I'm after is truth in labelling, and nothing else.
John Ordover
Rick Adams
>If the place is as bad as John Ordover and Jay Magoo say it is, and I have
>no reason to doubt them, then the resort really should let people know that
>it's more than swinger friendly. I'd be a little ticked off if I thought I
>was going to be spending a day at a family resort but instead had to worry
>about spooge in the hot tub.
>It's one thing to not tell people that swingers may be there if the swingers
>are discreet, but yeah, if people are doing it in the open like that and
>management doesn't let you know, then they shouldn't be an AANR club.
I agree completely, Lisa.
One of the reasons clubs like that one don't tell people in
advance, unfortunately, is that in nearly all situations, doing so
would end up with an organized movement to close them.
Those types of movements (which are often started by nudist
organizations or groups) would make good sense in a case such as that
one where the activities are open and children are admitted.
Unfortunately, they take the same tactic toward venues that are
limited to adults or where swinging takes place in areas where
children are NOT permitted (i.e., in adult-only lounges or dances, in
the hot tub or pool areas after the time that children are required to
be at their campsites or rented facilities, etc.). In those cases, it
seems that the "morality police" tend to have decided that because
their personal morality does not condone swinging, swingers should not
be permitted to have clubs of their own that cater to their interests.
The best example I can think of is a resort that was scheduled
to open in Florida last Fall (we had acquaintances who had planned to
move there for the Winter). The resort was to be adult only, and from
what I was shown of the brochures and sales material (lots were to be
sold there rather than rented), it would have been a very well
designed resort. Their rules made it clear that it tolerated swinging
behavior, but not public sexuality.
Despite the fact that it _would_ have drawn the swingers from
the other nudist resorts in the area like a magnet (which would seem
to be a positive benefit from the perspective of family oriented clubs
and their members), the local nudist resorts (and, as I understand,
the AANR) successfully fought to prevent them from getting the
required permits (they already had the required zoning variance). The
net result? The club never opened, the investors lost money, and the
local clubs remained hosts to the swingers they opposed. But the
morality police won, and that was all that was important to them.
Personally, I don't have any desire to attend a resort such as
the one described in this thread. It wouldn't meet my needs or
interests. But, if they were honest with those who intended to attend
them, neither would I oppose their operations. That others would is,
undoubtedly, the reason they deny the activities in the first
place--it keeps them from being prosecuted for allowing behavior that
may be illegal under the draconian morals laws in our country.
If family nudists really DO want to keep the swingers (or at
least those who are not completely discreet about their activities)
out of our clubs, they way to do it is to encourage the clubs that
_do_ accept them to make that known--and support their right to accept
them. That way, the swingers will have a different set of clubs
(perhaps they should be joining NASCA--the North American Swing Club
Association--instead of the AANR, which would be a lot more effective
place for them to advertise their clubs) than do family nudists and
everyone will benefit.
Of course, that's about as likely to happen as seeing George
W. Bush come out as a nudist, but . . .
Rick
--
Rick Adams
ada...@NOSPAM.direcway.com
"... and the only measure of your worth and your deeds
will be the love you leave behind when you're gone."
Fred Small, J.D., "Everything Possible"
El Dorado Hot Spring
Dear John,
"ORDOVER" <ord...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030727121238...@mb-m11.aol.com...
We're surprised you didn't know. It's not a nudist club. It is what you
experienced, despite their lies to the contrary, as well at the
association's lies to the contrary. Recently, after having been thrown out
several times for being what they are, the association welcomed them back
with open arms, probably because association membership keeps falling as it
has for the last 40 years; it doesn't even keep up with the general
population growth.
Bill
El Dorado Hot Spring
Dear Lisa,
"Lisa" <rvw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:E40Va.66372$k85.2...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> It's one thing to not tell people that swingers may be there if the
swingers
> are discreet, but yeah, if people are doing it in the open like that and
> management doesn't let you know, then they shouldn't be an AANR club.
Right, but it is, part of the two faced way the association does business.
It's very typical of them. Picture a cartoon showing a body with two faces
doing the limbo.
Bill
El Dorado Hot Spring
El Dorado Hot Spring
Dear John,
"ORDOVER" <ord...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030728073701...@mb-m03.aol.com...
We agree. The swinger sleazes should have their own places, labeled as such,
and not attempt to be family naturist when they're anything else but.
Please contact AANR and TNS and state your case. It *_might_* help,
maybe, possibly, perhaps.
Bill
jon...@webtv.net
kids tinker toys and jacks......to get in the mood.....every low llife
ex con and social misfit find their way to nudism......hey may as well
go on down to the bottom and try to start back up....heh heh...just
learned from ricky of this stupid con game of selling shares ....using
sex to sell......then your old buddy over AANR starts raising hell and
soe the money has dones been spent and alas a bunch of crazies sniffle
over their lost money....how many times over the years has this same
damn thing happened in nudism.....i gonna go hug my dog.......he sure is
smart......jonZeee
Lisa
news:15300-3F2...@storefull-2356.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> ahhh man....when it gets this dumb...you really need to drag out the
> kids tinker toys and jacks......to get in the mood.....
Wow. Even kids' TOYS get you in the mood.
Michael R. Kesti
This makes sense, as he likely is a kid.
--
========================================================================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mke...@gv.net | - The Who, Bargain
Cheri Alexander
reason and only in the past few years has gotten it back. They need
to investigate it!
Regards, Cheri
Rick Adams <ada...@NOSPAM.direcway.com> wrote in message
news:s7faivcngm8opnv70...@4ax.com...
nudistfamily
"Cheri Alexander" <cheri...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:tOhVa.7053$Pg....@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> Rick, et al., Sunny Rest had lost their AANR/ASA charter for this very
> reason and only in the past few years has gotten it back. They need
> to investigate it!
Sunny Rest: the club that is featured in this month's AANR bulletin. Good
timing, guys! Sheesh.
AANR must make some major decisions. It is either a family oriented
organization, or it is not.
If it wants to portray itself as such an organization--and I think that the
leadership really does want it to be such an organization, it *must* kick
out clubs that allow ANY kind of sleaze in the common ("public") areas, even
if that causes a significant revenue loss. It must also reject ALL
advertising for any places or travel agencies that have a reputation of
catering to swingers. It should require all clubs to have a no-smoking rule
in all common areas, including all indoor areas and even outdoor pool and
sunning areas (except for separate smoking/sunning areas).
It must crack down on rampant alcoholism....I'm not talking about moderate
social drinking...I'm talking about drunks and loud late night drinking
parties. If it is not willing to do these things then it should drop all
pretenses of being a "family oriented" organization, and let another
organization take over that role, albeit a much smaller organization with
fewer clubs.
Like the others here, I'm not opposed to swingers. I'm opposed to mixing
swinging with family nudism.
AANR has some painful decisions to make. It cannot be all things to all
people.
10 or 11 years ago, we visited Sunny Rest, and the place was really creepy.
It seemed to get the
worst element: sleazy New Yorkers. Talk about the double whammy. (And we
didn't even stay for the Sat. night dance.
But we heard about it later.)
There is another club that I am concerned about. Other families are
concerned about it, too. It has been hijacked, to SOME extent, by a group
of alleged swingers, some of whom live on the premises. At one point they
instituted a "no kids in the social hall after X o'clock" rule, so that they
could have "adult" dances. That didn't last long, though. Soon thereafter
a private home was built on the premises by a member, which now is the
likely venue of such dances.
Sometimes, the club simply doesn't feel the same way that it used to. As
for families, cliques of clothed boys prowl the camp, not necessarily
causing any trouble, but most just aren't nudists. It doesn't make for a
very balanced social situation for our girls.
Rick Adams
>just
>learned from ricky of this stupid con game of selling shares
Hardly a "stupid con game," JonZeee. Paradise Lakes, Caliente,
and a number of other very well known and luxurious resorts do the
same thing--as do "co-op" resorts where the members buy shares in the
club itself.
cyndiann
"El Dorado Hot Spring" <HotS...@El-Dorado.com> wrote in message
news:bg3i9k$irl$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
They were welcomed back in because there are new people running the place
that really want to make it better and family oriented and have taken steps
to make it that way. I have a very good friend that spends summers there so
I know the real story, unlike Bill who guesses. What the guy should have
done was let the owners know what happened so they could stop it from
happening. That is constructive criticism. Coming in rec nude and
complaining about it is called whining.
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
jon...@webtv.net
number of other very well known and luxurious resorts do the same
thing--as do "co-op" resorts where the members buy shares in the club
====================================== ricky boy....paradise was
straight as far as i could tell.....but the bulletin had all of the last
page about fifteen years ago after paradise about the grand opening.of
caliente....all amenities....i flew to florida to see this place and it
was nothing but florida straw and sand...zip.....who are you trying to
BS......jim chase in houston toolk an old man in a wheel chair total
life savings of ten thousand dollars and disapeared along with his wife
and children........slick where i come fron we tell the truth and
everything is up front and when we find this one fucking lie.....we
forget it.......but you being a damned cult nudist it must come
natural......and of course with all the ignroant cult rank and file cult
nudist ......great for business huh........you are a carnival
freak...jonZeee
ORDOVER
>done was let the owners know what happened so they could stop it from
>happening. That is constructive criticism. Coming in rec nude and
>complaining about it is called whining.
Thing is, the only person to complain to was the same person who had assured me
on the phone that this was a family resort - but then told me in person when I
complained that oh yes, there were a lot of swingers here. And while public
sex wasn't going on, there was what I can only call "agressive pairing up" that
started Friday night, creating an unpleasant "being sized up" experience and
some odd/dirty looks for having brought our son.
Plus the only high-chair they had was broken and their playground was unused
and in dangeorus disrepair. Not exactly kid-friendly.
The impression I got, btw, is that they want to have their cake and eat it too
- ie, they want the money they can get from both swingers and non-swingers.
That's fine, but then they have to label themselves that way. IMHO.
My wife and I talked about what we are really looking for in a nudist resort,
and we decided that the solution for us is to have Disney open one. :)
John Ordover
ORDOVER
>Please contact AANR and TNS and state your case. It *_might_* help,
>maybe, possibly, perhaps.
Good idea - I will.
John Ordover
BobW
The reason the local clubs and AANR fought it is financial.
AANR views all other Nudist organizations and non-AANR nudist venues as
competition. Paradise Lakes certainly does not want to loose business to
any other group.
This was expressed by a top AANR executive at the FANR convention in Lake
Como recently. This is also why AANR does not team up with TNS on nudist
issues.
Bob
"Rick Adams" <ada...@NOSPAM.direcway.com> wrote in message
news:s7faivcngm8opnv70...@4ax.com...
jon...@webtv.net
ord...@aol.com (ORDOVER)
snatching kids from parents that take their kids to nudist camps and i
have been telling you for years there is no sexless nudity.......and you
persisted and took your kid anyhow.......now you make those calls and
you whine about what another nudist told you.....hell they are all
liars....so for you being so damned block headed....i am gonna call the
CPS on you for being an unfit parent....jonZeee
allnude
I will see the Executive Director of AANR tonight and will voice the
concern. The Bulletin had them as the featured club in the latest issue.
JayMagoo
>Date: 7/28/03 10:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> wrote:
>
>They were welcomed back in because there are new people running the place
>that really want to make it better and family oriented and have taken steps
>to make it that way. I have a very good friend that spends summers there so
>I know the real story, unlike Bill who guesses. What the guy should have
>done was let the owners know what happened so they could stop it from
>happening. That is constructive criticism. Coming in rec nude and
>complaining about it is called whining.
>
>cyndiann
>www.mynudelife.com
>
>
>
When a man takes his wife and family to a weekend resort and expects them to be
treated with dignity, and then he finds his family among a mob of swingers, all
exercising their dirty-little-lifestyle, his complaints are not "whining." He
is damn angry at having been deceived and having been duped into subjecting his
family to such a disgusting environment.
You may condone swinging, cyndiann, and from things you have said in the past I
suspect you may even participate in it, for whatever reasons you choose. But
swinging and all the dirty little things that go with it, are uncivilized and
animalistic behavior and have no place in a family nudist resort.
The person who you say just bought Sunny Rest has no reason to complain. If he
had any brains at all he would have done a "due-diligence" before buying and he
had to know what he is getting into. Rather than whine, to use your word, you
and he should try to overcome the place's reputation and try to convince us and
the rest of the world that it's worth our taking a chance on the place again.
JM.
nudistfamily
"JayMagoo" <jaym...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030729120505...@mb-m06.aol.com...
> The person who you say just bought Sunny Rest has no reason to complain.
If he
> had any brains at all he would have done a "due-diligence" before buying
and he
> had to know what he is getting into. Rather than whine, to use your word,
you
> and he should try to overcome the place's reputation and try to convince
us and
> the rest of the world that it's worth our taking a chance on the place
again.
I've heard it is now owned by the wife of the previous owner, after a
marital breakup.
Anybody able to confirm that?
cyndiann
> > What the guy should have
> >done was let the owners know what happened so they could stop it from
> >happening. That is constructive criticism. Coming in rec nude and
> >complaining about it is called whining.
>
> Thing is, the only person to complain to was the same person who had
assured
There are two owners.... a woman and her father in law.
>me
> on the phone that this was a family resort - but then told me in person
when I
> complained that oh yes, there were a lot of swingers here.
There is nothing bad about having swingers at a club. I don't know a club
that does not have them. They are swingers and nudists too and usually know
how to act in a nudist setting.
> And while public
> sex wasn't going on, there was what I can only call "agressive pairing up"
that
> started Friday night, creating an unpleasant "being sized up" experience
and
> some odd/dirty looks for having brought our son.
Here is where your opinion is clouding the facts of what really happened.
I'm not really sure what you are saying here. They weren't having sex in the
open and that is all that AANR requires as far as I know. Could you
elaborate on what was going on in a factual manner? What exactly happened
that you found objectionable?
>
> Plus the only high-chair they had was broken and their playground was
unused
> and in dangeorus disrepair. Not exactly kid-friendly.
Now that is better... you are presenting solid evidence of a problem.
>
> The impression I got, btw, is that they want to have their cake and eat it
too
> - ie, they want the money they can get from both swingers and
non-swingers.
> That's fine, but then they have to label themselves that way. IMHO.
All clubs would fall under that category. All clubs I know of have swingers
that are also nudists. As long as the behavior is that of a nudist and no
open sex is present it is not up to you to judge them socializing in a
manner you may not like. Up to this point you have really not given any
solid reasons why they should not be there.
cyndiann
"allnude" <all...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bg5u8u$2o7$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
What are you going to tell him? That some guy got some funny looks? So far
he's not really presented anything concrete that AANR would object to.
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
cyndiann
"nudistfamily" <nudist...@killhotmailspam.com> wrote in message
news:LPxVa.2086$Bg....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
told by a friend that lives there she really wants to make it family
oriented again. This is why it was important for Ordover to tell her what
went on, if anything. At this point all he has said is that they "may have"
walked in on something going on in the hottub room and about attitudes at
poolside which may or may not have had anything to do with swingers.
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
cyndiann
> >Date: 7/28/03 10:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> > wrote:
> >
> >They were welcomed back in because there are new people running the place
> >that really want to make it better and family oriented and have taken
steps
> >to make it that way. I have a very good friend that spends summers there
so
> >I know the real story, unlike Bill who guesses. What the guy should have
> >done was let the owners know what happened so they could stop it from
> >happening. That is constructive criticism. Coming in rec nude and
> >complaining about it is called whining.
> >
> >cyndiann
> >www.mynudelife.com
> >
> >
> >
> Magoo responds:
>
> When a man takes his wife and family to a weekend resort and expects them
to be
> treated with dignity, and then he finds his family among a mob of
swingers, all
> exercising their dirty-little-lifestyle, his complaints are not "whining."
He
> is damn angry at having been deceived and having been duped into
subjecting his
> family to such a disgusting environment.
He said he saw no open sex. Don't change the man's words.
>
> You may condone swinging, cyndiann, and from things you have said in the
past I
> suspect you may even participate in it, for whatever reasons you choose.
But
> swinging and all the dirty little things that go with it, are uncivilized
and
> animalistic behavior and have no place in a family nudist resort.
And did not occur at this resort on that weekend according to Ordover who
posted it here. Again, you are putting words in the man's mouth.
>
> The person who you say just bought Sunny Rest has no reason to complain.
If he
> had any brains at all he would have done a "due-diligence" before buying
and he
> had to know what he is getting into. Rather than whine, to use your word,
you
> and he should try to overcome the place's reputation and try to convince
us and
> the rest of the world that it's worth our taking a chance on the place
again.
She knew what she was getting into because she was married to the previous
owner. When I hear about something that really did happen there besides some
attitudes he didn't like I will consider changing my opinion. What we have
been told so far does not go against anything AANR believes in.
Please, it is bad enough having to wade through what really happened without
you pretending that something happened that didn't.
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
Kathleen
no
>open sex is present it is not up to you to judge them socializing in a
>manner you may not like. Up to this point you have really not given any
>solid reasons why they should not be there.
>>
indeed. He is giving solid reasons why he should not be there especially should
not be there with his wife and child.
The person he talked to on the phone should not have encouraged him to be a
guest with false information.
Kathleen
"Peace of mind is not the absence of conflict from life, but the ability to
cope with it."
John Ordover
Which is what made me want to check it out. Thanks for passing this on.
JayMagoo
>
>>
>She knew what she was getting into because she was married to the previous
>owner. When I hear about something that really did happen there besides some
>attitudes he didn't like I will consider changing my opinion. What we have
>been told so far does not go against anything AANR believes in.
>
>Please, it is bad enough having to wade through what really happened without
>you pretending that something happened that didn't.
>
>cyndiann
>www.mynudelife.com
>
>
>
I visited Sunny Rest Lodge in the summer of 2000, admittedly three years ago,
and the swinging activity was frantic and out-in-the-open. We haven't been back
since, but when Ordover wrote that he and his wife found themselve in the midst
of what appeared to be a pigsty of swingers, I knew what he was talking about.
I had seen the same thing at Sunny Rest Lodge during my visit. I didn't
"pretend" it went on, as your post suggests, I saw it when I was there, and
from the information in Ordover's post, it seemed that the party has been going
on non-stop since 2000.
Now you say Sunny Rest Lodge has been taken over by the ex-wife of the previous
owner. I wish her luck. But if guys like Ordover can't go there in July 2003
without getting the impression of swinging activity, it seems like she has a
whole lot of problems. Ordover didn't peek into anybody's motel room or
camper, so he didn't actually see it. But if it looks like a duck, walks like
a duck, and quacks like a duck, guess what, Cyndiann? It's probably a duck.
Especially if it's found in a place where ducks have always been known to
congregate.
I hope the lady in question does succeed in cleaning up Sunny Rest Lodge. It
was a convenient place for me when I lived in New Jersey. But I'm not
optimistic, especially when I read a report like Ordover's report.
Put on your wading boots and wade through what really happened, Cyndiann. You
might discover there are some things there that you didn't see before. It
doesn't help to pretend they couldn't have happened. And listen for the
quacking.
JM
John Ordover
going on, not overt sexual behavior out of doors. But what was
unacceptable was telling me one story on the phone, then another when
we got there. Frankly, it's just as much of a problem for us that the
playground was falling apart and dangerous, that their one high-chair
was broken, and that we got dirty looks for having our baby with us.
That certainly doesn't match the atmosphere that was promised in the
Bulletain.
cyndiann
"John Ordover" <Ord...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:a0863366.03072...@posting.google.com...
> Cyndiann, what bothered us was the agressive partner-hunting that was
> going on, not overt sexual behavior out of doors. But what was
> unacceptable was telling me one story on the phone, then another when
> we got there.
Who did you talk to on the phone and who did you talk to in person? Were
they the same person?
> Frankly, it's just as much of a problem for us that the
> playground was falling apart and dangerous, that their one high-chair
> was broken, and that we got dirty looks for having our baby with us.
The first two are legitimate gripes about the resort. Did you tell them
about the playground and high chair?
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
nudistfamily
"cyndiann" <cynd...@notemailtampa.com> wrote in message
news:64ff1151e968ae54a166ee7cf1d97d16@TeraNews...
> > Frankly, it's just as much of a problem for us that the
> > playground was falling apart and dangerous, that their one high-chair
> > was broken, and that we got dirty looks for having our baby with us.
>
> The first two are legitimate gripes about the resort. Did you tell them
> about the playground and high chair?
You mean to say that getting dirty looks for bringing a baby is NOT a
legitimate gripe about an AANR resort???
ORDOVER
>> playground was falling apart and dangerous, that their one high-chair
>> was broken, and that we got dirty looks for having our baby with us.
>
>The first two are legitimate gripes about the resort. Did you tell them
>about the playground and high chair?
I complained about the high chair being broken, and was told "that's the only
one we have, there's nothing we can do" without even an apology.
Since we're not going back, I don't have all that much motivation to get them
to change.
btw - I started this topic to ask if others had had similar experiences or if
our experience was somehow an aberration. It seems that we had a typical
experience, were lied to on the phone and then given another story in person
(doesn't matter if we talked to the same person or not).
As I've said over and over, all I ask for is truth in labelling. If a club
wants to have agressive swinger-pairing-up on Friday and Saturday, that's fine
by me. Just tell me that on the phone when I call and ask, so I can make an
informed decision.
Btw - getting nasty looks for having our baby with us is a legitimate
complaint. If we were told babies weren't welcome, we wouldn't have come.
John Ordover
cyndiann
I can't say that they really got "dirty looks". I have a feeling that this
is another "story" about a resort similar to what kathleen posted about
Shangri La. The report is definitely flavored by a desire to make the place
look as bad as possible. I wrote to the owner at Sunny Rest and here is what
she had to say.
*******
I have worked very hard here at Sunny Rest to make all our guests feel
comfortable. Certainly you can believe Ray, if not me that the swinging
here is behind closed doors. I get very positive feedback from all our
guests, new and old about our club. As you know swinging exists at every
nudist park. I know for a fact that many of our regulars are not swingers
and feel very comfortable and are not intimidated by the lifestyles of
others. The reason for the huge growth in our resident population is the
friendliness of our membership toward the newcomer to Sunny Rest. The
comments made about the food and the service could be nothing further from
the truth. Our portions are large and we have paid employees not volunteers
as there are at other nudist camps. I am dismayed about this negative
publicity. Its a shame people are not as vocal about their positive
experiences as they are about their negative ones.
JayMagoo
>Date: 7/30/03 8:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>>
>Wrote:
>
>. I wrote to the owner at Sunny Rest and here is what
>she had to say.
>
>*******
>I have worked very hard here at Sunny Rest to make all our guests feel
>comfortable. Certainly you can believe Ray, if not me that the swinging
>here is behind closed doors. I get very positive feedback from all our
>guests, new and old about our club. As you know swinging exists at every
>nudist park. I know for a fact that many of our regulars are not swingers
>and feel very comfortable and are not intimidated by the lifestyles of
>others. The reason for the huge growth in our resident population is the
>friendliness of our membership toward the newcomer to Sunny Rest. The
>comments made about the food and the service could be nothing further from
>the truth. Our portions are large and we have paid employees not volunteers
>as there are at other nudist camps. I am dismayed about this negative
>publicity. Its a shame people are not as vocal about their positive
>experiences as they are about their negative ones.
>
Magoo replies:
I am a little dismayed when the owner of a nudist resort suggests that many of
their regulars "are not intimidated by the lifestyle of others," with regard to
swinging activity at her resort. That also suggests that people who object to
the pigsty lifestyle of swinging are "intimidated." She has a huge problem.
The perception is out there that Sunny Rest Lodge is a haven for swingers and
all the dirty little activities that go with it.
Intimidation is the wrong word. We are disgusted with it. Until it changes we
will not be back. We don't want to have that kind of activity "in your face"
during what should be a relaxing weekend with the family by the pool in the
sun.
We voted with our feet and our pocketbooks. We go elsewhere when in that
neighborhood.
She unfortunately inherited a market with her acquisition of SRL. That market
is a herd of swingers. She can either tell them all to stay home, or she can
cater to them. Maybe the swingers are a more logical market for her than
genuine nudists, and maybe she should be honest and exercise a little "truth in
advertising," as John Ordover suggests.
Until then, the message sent out by SRL is ambiguous, at best, and that is
worse than no message at all.
We'll wait this one out and will not visit SRL in the foreseeable future.
JM
cyndiann
What she means is that she feels the swing crowd are not behaving in a
manner that would be noticed by the other visitors. You have the problem
when you twist words just to be right.
> The perception is out there that Sunny Rest Lodge is a haven for swingers
and
> all the dirty little activities that go with it.
> Intimidation is the wrong word. We are disgusted with it. Until it
changes we
> will not be back. We don't want to have that kind of activity "in your
face"
> during what should be a relaxing weekend with the family by the pool in
the
> sun.
She is saying that it isn't "in your face". Why not write her yourself and
share your feelings? Why slam here here where she can't respond?
> We voted with our feet and our pocketbooks. We go elsewhere when in that
> neighborhood.
> She unfortunately inherited a market with her acquisition of SRL. That
market
> is a herd of swingers. She can either tell them all to stay home, or she
can
> cater to them.
Uh, many of them are at home... they live there. However, they are not just
swingers but swingers who are also nudists and should know how to act while
in public areas of the resort.
> Maybe the swingers are a more logical market for her than
> genuine nudists,
Some genuine nudists are swingers as well. There aren't two totally
different people attending there.... they are all nudists. Some swing, some
don't.
Most swingers aren't nudists and would not ever go to Sunny Rest.
> and maybe she should be honest and exercise a little "truth in
> advertising," as John Ordover suggests.
Why not write her and tell her yourself?
> Until then, the message sent out by SRL is ambiguous, at best, and that is
> worse than no message at all.
> We'll wait this one out and will not visit SRL in the foreseeable future.
The message sounded great to me. Funny how you made it into what you wanted
it to be instead of merely taking it for what it was.
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
jon...@webtv.net
wholesome and peaceful enviros to take the family ...smoke free....drug
free....booze free.....politically incorrect free..sex free.....and they
went all over the country....tried churches.....the local parks ....the
neighborhood.....civic groups......kinfolks.....and lo and behold they
for some crazy reason wound up with a bunch of naked crazy nuts and they
settled in for the heaven on earth....and what do they do immediately
start BITCHING.....he he ha ha...what did they expect.....take me to the
place where these people are not....jonZeee
JayMagoo
>Date: 7/30/03 12:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Cyndiann, I have no interest in helping the new owner of SRL clean up her mess.
I am a consumer of services, and the services she offers are not the services
she delivers, according to my own experience and that of John Ordover. I have
no interest in writing her. She must earn my business, I will not go out of my
way to tell her what I am certain she already knows.
My experience was that swinging was "in your face." That is an eyewitness
account. Are you going to tell me I didn't see it, cyndiann?
She said, and I quoted, their regulars "are not intimidated by the lifestyle of
others," with regard to swinging activity at her resort. My direct quote was in
quotes, Cyndiann, even you can understand that (I hope.) How even you can
construe that as twisting words is certainly a mystery.
I'll write it again for you, Cyndiann, so even you can understand. She tells
John Ordover over the telephone that the resort is family friendly, and then
when John Ordover takes his wife and baby there the place is filled with a
crowd of swingers, and his wife is made to feel uncomfortable because she has a
baby with her. That's pretty clear to me.
The fact is that SRL has swingers there. I saw them in 2000, John Ordover saw
them in 2003, and I have heard nothing to indicate they are not still there.
SRL management from what you say doesn't want the world to perceive their
resort as being swinger-friendly, yet the swingers are there and anybody who
goes there must be prepared to have to associate with them.
While I am in sympathy with the new owner of SRL if she is sincere in wanting
to change her resort, she can't do it merely by telling people she has changed
things if she hasn't changed them. She cannot do it by resorting only to PR,
and to bland statements of support from the likes of Cyndiann. She must
actually do something. Otherwise people like Ordover, Magoo, and many other
nudists who think swinging is an abomination, will simply not go there, and we
will tell anybody who asks us why we are no longer going.
I've noticed before, cyndiann, that you see only what you want to see, for
reasons apparently known only to you. I don't know if it's Political
Correctness run amok, or merely self-absorbtion to the nth degree. To try to
answer this question I checked out your webpage, "www.mynudelife.com." It's a
curious display. All I can say is that I wish you success with your rather
novel and unique webpage and I hope you achieve everything from that webpage
that you want to achieve.
JM
Kathleen
to>Certainly you can believe Ray, if not me that the swinging
>here is behind closed doors. I get very positive feedback from all our
>guests, new and old about our club. As you know swinging exists at every
>nudist park.
Thanks cyndiann for exposing the truth about nudist parks.
Another reason that some of us do not want to go to them.
No wonder the people are so friendly ===they are recruiting people for their
behind doors activity.
People have complained on this list about being "recruited" by people to join
certain religious practices...
well, the swingers are just as dilligent in their recruiting tactics if not
more so.
Kathleen
Excellent post
Kathleen
>manner that would be noticed by the other visitors
Then how in the world does she or anyone else even know there are swingers
there?
They must do something or say something so people know that is what they are
into.
Dan Jordan
> "ORDOVER" <ord...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20030729055845...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > What the guy should have
> > >done was let the owners know what happened so they could stop it from
> > >happening. That is constructive criticism. Coming in rec nude and
> > >complaining about it is called whining.
>snipped
> some odd/dirty looks for having brought our son.
>
> Here is where your opinion is clouding the facts of what really happened.
> I'm not really sure what you are saying here. They weren't having sex in the
> open and that is all that AANR requires as far as I know. Could you
> elaborate on what was going on in a factual manner? What exactly happened
> that you found objectionable?
Cindy, if you haven't figured that one (what he found
objectionable)out by now, you are indeed dense.
>
> >
> > Plus the only high-chair they had was broken and their playground was
> unused
> > and in dangeorus disrepair. Not exactly kid-friendly.
>
>snipped again>
> My wife and I talked about what we are really looking for in a
nudist
> resort,
> > and we decided that the solution for us is to have Disney open one. :)
> >
> > John Ordover
> >
Best Regards,
Dan
jon...@webtv.net
swingers there?
They must do something or say something so people know that is what they
are into.
Kathleen
"Peace of mind is not the absence of conflict from life, but the ability
right on Kathleen.....so the people know.....heh heh....that does
include the little kiddies too....right......so for the advanced studies
of ol jonZeee we could could have a class on how swingers in nudist
clubs affect the childs wholesome surroundings......and once we can make
this determination....then we can rate nudism on a scale of one to ten
on how child friendly it is... once and for all......thats
progress......hugs ....john
Kathleen
>From: jon...@webtv.net
>Date: 7/30/03 12:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <22949-3F...@storefull-2354.public.lawson.webtv.net>
Exactly.
I am so glad to see a nudist park owner ADMIT that there is swing activity
going on there and at every other nudist park.
You know there may be swing activity going on in my neighborhood but maybe
not--why? because no one knows about it.
If it is public knowlege that it is going on then it is not being done discreet
enough for me and a lot of other people.
cyndiann
When you were there she didn't own it. Duh!
>
> My experience was that swinging was "in your face." That is an eyewitness
> account. Are you going to tell me I didn't see it, cyndiann?
You probably did... that was before they became an AANR club again and the
new owners took over.
>
> She said, and I quoted, their regulars "are not intimidated by the
lifestyle of
> others," with regard to swinging activity at her resort. My direct quote
was in
> quotes, Cyndiann, even you can understand that (I hope.) How even you can
> construe that as twisting words is certainly a mystery.
>
> I'll write it again for you, Cyndiann, so even you can understand. She
tells
> John Ordover over the telephone that the resort is family friendly, and
then
> when John Ordover takes his wife and baby there the place is filled with a
> crowd of swingers, and his wife is made to feel uncomfortable because she
has a
> baby with her. That's pretty clear to me.
John didn't say who he talked to. He said there was only one person to talk
with but there are two owners. I asked him to tell me exactly who he talked
with on the phone and in person and he failed to answer that.
>
> The fact is that SRL has swingers there. I saw them in 2000, John Ordover
saw
> them in 2003, and I have heard nothing to indicate they are not still
there.
They will always be there just as they are at about all clubs. Do you think
that the club you now go to doesn't have any?
> SRL management from what you say doesn't want the world to perceive their
> resort as being swinger-friendly, yet the swingers are there and anybody
who
> goes there must be prepared to have to associate with them.
Just as they would at any nudist resort.... or any vacation resort for that
matter.
>
> While I am in sympathy with the new owner of SRL if she is sincere in
wanting
> to change her resort, she can't do it merely by telling people she has
changed
> things if she hasn't changed them. She cannot do it by resorting only to
PR,
> and to bland statements of support from the likes of Cyndiann. She must
> actually do something. Otherwise people like Ordover, Magoo, and many
other
> nudists who think swinging is an abomination, will simply not go there,
and we
> will tell anybody who asks us why we are no longer going.
As I said she didn't own it then, it wasn't an AANR club so the situation
was totally different when you were there.
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
cyndiann
"Kathleen" <okeef...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20030730134306...@mb-m02.aol.com...
> cyndiann post letter from sunnyrest lodge here is part I want to respond
> to>Certainly you can believe Ray, if not me that the swinging
> >here is behind closed doors. I get very positive feedback from all our
> >guests, new and old about our club. As you know swinging exists at every
> >nudist park.
>
join
> certain religious practices...
> well, the swingers are just as dilligent in their recruiting tactics if
not
> more so.
And you know this is the case at Sunny Rest because??
cyndiann
"Kathleen" <okeef...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
> cyndiann>What she means is that she feels the swing crowd are not behaving
in a
> >manner that would be noticed by the other visitors
>
> Then how in the world does she or anyone else even know there are swingers
> there?
Because they all live there all summer. You get to know people when you see
them every day.
> They must do something or say something so people know that is what they
are
> into.
Why not write the owner and ask your silly question?
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
Kathleen
you see
>them every day.
>
I see my neighbors every day. We have lunch together. We have block parties. We
babysit for each other's kids. We go to Disneyland together and I have not a
clue as to what they do in their sex lives.
If people at nudist parks are so close that they all know what goes on in each
others sex lives that is an uncomfortable environment for myself and my
chiildren and for many other people.
I am glad you are helping to let it be known so people can make more informed
decisions.
Rick Adams
>Magoo replies:
>
>I am a little dismayed when the owner of a nudist resort suggests that many of
>their regulars "are not intimidated by the lifestyle of others," with regard to
>swinging activity at her resort. That also suggests that people who object to
>the pigsty lifestyle of swinging are "intimidated." She has a huge problem.
>The perception is out there that Sunny Rest Lodge is a haven for swingers and
>all the dirty little activities that go with it.
Try this:
I am a little dismayed when the owner of a family resort suggests that
many of their regulars "are not intimidated by the lifestyle of
others," with regard to nudist activity at her resort. That also
suggests that people who object to the pigsty lifestyle of nudism are
"intimidated." She has a huge problem. The perception is out there
that Sunny Rest Lodge is a haven for nudism and all the dirty little
activities that go with it.
Is there any reason that this version, which would certainly
fit the feelings of a textile opposed to nudism, is any less valid
than yours?
The concept that swinging is a "pigsty" lifestyle and that
swingers engage in "dirty little activities" does nothing but brand
you as a prude. It doesn't represent the "universal" you wish it did,
it only represents the views of a group of people who, in most cases,
were convinced of it by their superstitious beliefs. That it is not
your personal choice of a lifestyle is fine. It isn't mine either. But
that you feel it is in any way inferior to the lifestyles we _have_
chosen for ourselves IS important, because that simply demonstrates
bigotry.
>Intimidation is the wrong word. We are disgusted with it. Until it changes we
>will not be back. We don't want to have that kind of activity "in your face"
>during what should be a relaxing weekend with the family by the pool in the
>sun.
Why shouldn't discrete swingers (and I don't claim those that
were encountered by the original poster _were_ discrete) not be as
welcome at a club as anyone else? Their lifestyle is none of your
business or anyone else's but their own.
>We voted with our feet and our pocketbooks. We go elsewhere when in that
>neighborhood.
Ever wonder what would happen if the swingers did the same
thing at the clubs _you_ enjoy? The bottom might very well drop out
economically for them.
Frankly, if I were a swinger, I would refuse to attend any
resort where swingers weren't specifically (and openly) welcomed. Of
course, that might tip the balance that is keeping some of the clubs
afloat financially, but it would be their choice to do so.
Perhaps that's why some nudists _are_ so opposed to clubs that
cater to swingers--they know that if those clubs are allowed to
operate openly without opposition they will lose revenues from their
own resorts.
>She unfortunately inherited a market with her acquisition of SRL. That market
>is a herd of swingers. She can either tell them all to stay home, or she can
>cater to them. Maybe the swingers are a more logical market for her than
>genuine nudists, and maybe she should be honest and exercise a little "truth in
>advertising," as John Ordover suggests.
Is there some particular reason you view one as excluding the
other? I know swingers at a number of resorts, and I see no difference
between their public behavior and that of other non-swinger members.
Does being a swinger, or celibate for that matter, mean you can't be a
nudist? I see no reason it would, and as yet I've never seen anyone
else post one either.
Rick
--
Rick Adams
ada...@NOSPAM.direcway.com
"... and the only measure of your worth and your deeds
will be the love you leave behind when you're gone."
Fred Small, J.D., "Everything Possible"
Kathleen
>other? I know swingers at a number of resorts, and I see no difference
>between their public behavior and that of other non-swinger members.
>Does being a swinger, or celibate for that matter, mean you can't be a
>nudist? I see no reason it would, and as yet I've never seen anyone
>else post one either.
>
> Rick
>
>--
>
>Rick Adams
Why are you so interested in the sex life of others to even know if people are
swingers or not?
Why do swingers want people to know what they do in their sex life?
Maybe because they are in the (monkey) business of recruiting and now better to
get more people into their lifestyle then to tell others that that is one of
the ways they enjoy sexaul relations.
Hmmm
rick, you are now aother person that is attesting to the fact that people at
nudist resorts make it known that they are swingers. People know.
I applaud you for your honestly. You are another person stepping forward with
the truth so people can make more informed decisions.
soon swingers will take over the nudist resorts ---won't that be special.
JayMagoo
in this newsgroup in the last couple of months. But in case you missed it, the
chief arguments nudists have against swinging is that swingers, or
wife-swappers, if you will, use nudism as a cover for their sleazy activities.
This gives the general public the impression that all nudists are drooling,
lusting wife-swappers, and gives the conservatives more ammunition to close up
nudist venues.
Nudism in the minds of many traditional nudists is a movement dating back to
pre-war Germany which was based on healthful living and enjoying the great
outdoors. Unlimited sex with each other was not a part of it. Swinging, whose
major objective is allowing all members to have unlimited sex with each other
whenever and wherever they might be, seems to have been attracted to nudism by
the nude aspect of nudism. The nude aspect of it apparently appeals to them
because when one guy is trying to bargain with another for a swap of their
wives, he can show exact what he is offering if she is nude. Sort of puts sex
on a plane with horse trading or picking a puppy out of a litter, doesn't it?.
In a truly free society, one without rules, such behavior would be widely
approved. (There was rhyming saying by Odgen Nash, "In the world of mules,
there are no rules.") But we are presumably civilized, having risen above the
slime and the grime of the barnyard floor, and our aspirations and practices
are a bit elevated from the goal of having sex with anyone we wish to at any
time we can.
Nudists, at least this nudist, likes to think homo sapiens is different from
the barnyard animals the swingers seek to emulate. Call me a bigot (as you did)
but I stick by my guns.
Swingers also try to recruit. I and my girlfriend have been approached on the
beach many times by those who ask us "do you swing." I'm on the nude beach
because I enjoy the natural feeling of being nude and because being nude brings
me closer to nature. The swingers? They seem to be there to find someone to
have sex with. We have different goals and I, like most people, usually
gravitate toward those who share the same goals and aspirations as I do, and
away from those who goals I hold in contempt.
I frankly think the swinging lifestyle is a pigsty. I avoid going places where
swinging is out in the open. I don't want to be around them -- they give me the
creeps. Call me a prude. (which you did) because I do not want to offer some
guy the right to have sex with my girlfriend in exchange for his allowing me to
have sex with his.
I do feel superior to people who feel it is their right to copulate with each
and every other member of their group whenever and wherever the notion strikes
them. I feel I am more civilized than them, a little higher up the
evolutionary ladder. It's called civilization. Check it out.
If nudist clubs depend upon swingers to stay in business and at the same time
they claim they have no swingers there, then maybe they are in the wrong
business. And maybe if they were honest swingers would gravitate toward clubs
who want them, rather than try to go to nudist clubs. Then the marketplace
would decide just how viable nudism really is.
A celibate? A flippant, facetious suggestion. But not without amusement value.
This "prudish bigot" will continue to regard swingers as a lower form of life
and will avoid them at all cost.
JM
Kathleen
>Date: 7/30/03 7:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030730223303...@mb-m02.aol.com>
nudistfamily
> I wrote to the owner at Sunny Rest and here is what
> she had to say.
>
> *******
> I have worked very hard here at Sunny Rest to make all our guests feel
> comfortable.
Notice the word "all".
I guess she wants the swingers to feel welcome and "comfortable" too.
But, if the original poster is accurate, I guess she doesn't want a baby in
a (broken) highchair to feel comfortable.
And this is EXACTLY what I was referring to earlier.
The club is trying to be ALL THINGS TO ALL PEOPLE.
If true, it should be kicked out of AANR again.
Now, before you label me as Magoo II, I am not as critical of swingers
themselves.
I just don't want swinger/swinging whether overt, whispered about,
late-night, or behind "closed doors",
to be a part of an AANR club. Simple as that. The club owners MUST choose.
They cannot have
it both ways any longer.
>Certainly you can believe Ray, if not me that the swinging
> here is behind closed doors.
Then how does she know about it?
Is she behind those doors, alongside the swingers?
>I get very positive feedback from all our
> guests, new and old about our club.
The ones who make a return visit, that is.
And there she goes using the "all" word again. That's going to get her into
trouble.
>As you know swinging exists at every
> nudist park.
There she goes. Now it's "every". Has she BEEN to "every" nudist park?
If not, how does she know?
> I know for a fact that many of our regulars are not swingers
> and feel very comfortable and are not intimidated by the lifestyles of
> others.
This is probably very true. Obviously, if they were intimidated, they
wouldn't have become "regulars".
I wonder how many people never go back. WE never did....but maybe we will,
just to see if things are
any different from 10 years ago.
>The reason for the huge growth in our resident population is the
> friendliness of our membership toward the newcomer to Sunny Rest.
Oh, I'm sure they are QUITE friendly to the newcomers.
>The
> comments made about the food and the service could be nothing further from
> the truth. Our portions are large and we have paid employees not
volunteers
> as there are at other nudist camps. I am dismayed about this negative
> publicity. Its a shame people are not as vocal about their positive
> experiences as they are about their negative ones.
As an AANR club...especially in the current legal environment...there
shouldn't BE any negative experiences
for "social FAMILY nudists".
If she values the presence of the "behind closed doors" swingers, why
doesn't she just do us all a favor and voluntarily drop the AANR
affiliation???
jon...@webtv.net
with you ...and maybe she is a slut.....and loves all the swingers and
sex shows and erections.....or maybe you do not know what she really
is......but for a descent woman she would not go the first step with
you...considering you are some kind of nut that preaches how he dislikes
swingers while really enjoying it as a multitude of other options are
available.......get lost little boy.....jonZeee
jon...@webtv.net
your children when you say you may check it out later ....to see if it
has cleaned out the obvious swingers.....well you drive all the ways to
the nude beach and plop down among the pedos with your kids.... so one
could expect anything from you .....jonZeee
cyndiann
"Kathleen" <okeef...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
And I'm glad you are such a freak that you can't help but agree with the dot
man even when he says he harms kids and yet you jump on any opportunity to
jump on anything I post as if it is a negative to you.
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
cyndiann
> This is an old argument, Rick, and it has been hashed over to a
fair-thee-well
> in this newsgroup in the last couple of months. But in case you missed it,
the
> chief arguments nudists have against swinging is that swingers, or
> wife-swappers, if you will, use nudism as a cover for their sleazy
activities.
And you know that because.... well you don't know that at all because most
swingers you'd not be able to pick out of a weekend crowd at a resort. They
are also nudists and blend in well enough that you'd have a lot of
difficulty picking them out.
> This gives the general public the impression that all nudists are
drooling,
> lusting wife-swappers, and gives the conservatives more ammunition to
close up
> nudist venues.
The general public would not in most cases to tell which ones were swingers
and which ones were not.
>
> Nudism in the minds of many traditional nudists is a movement dating back
to
> pre-war Germany which was based on healthful living and enjoying the great
> outdoors.
Yes, that is what it was based on decades ago. This is not what it is based
on today, even by "traditional nudists".
> Unlimited sex with each other was not a part of it. Swinging, whose
> major objective is allowing all members to have unlimited sex with each
other
> whenever and wherever they might be,
Nope, that is not the major objective. How can we discuss this if you don't
even know what they do and how they go about doing it? I don't believe you
know much about swingers at nudist resorts because you are posting so much
garbage that doesn't apply to them. Ain't no way you know what you are
talking about.
> seems to have been attracted to nudism by
> the nude aspect of nudism. The nude aspect of it apparently appeals to
them
> because when one guy is trying to bargain with another for a swap of their
> wives, he can show exact what he is offering if she is nude.
Swingers are nudists because they like being nudists not to use naked wives
as bargaining chips. Your imagination is really running away with you here.
> Sort of puts sex
> on a plane with horse trading or picking a puppy out of a litter, doesn't
it?.
>
> In a truly free society, one without rules, such behavior would be widely
> approved. (There was rhyming saying by Odgen Nash, "In the world of mules,
> there are no rules.") But we are presumably civilized, having risen above
the
> slime and the grime of the barnyard floor, and our aspirations and
practices
> are a bit elevated from the goal of having sex with anyone we wish to at
any
> time we can.
>
> Nudists, at least this nudist, likes to think homo sapiens is different
from
> the barnyard animals the swingers seek to emulate. Call me a bigot (as you
did)
> but I stick by my guns.
Of course you do...obviously you made it all up because it doesn't portray
swingers in the slightest.
>
> Swingers also try to recruit. I and my girlfriend have been approached on
the
> beach many times by those who ask us "do you swing." I'm on the nude
beach
> because I enjoy the natural feeling of being nude and because being nude
brings
> me closer to nature. The swingers? They seem to be there to find someone
to
> have sex with. We have different goals and I, like most people, usually
> gravitate toward those who share the same goals and aspirations as I do,
and
> away from those who goals I hold in contempt.
>
> I frankly think the swinging lifestyle is a pigsty. I avoid going places
where
> swinging is out in the open.
Bullshit... you've complained on here about swingers at Haulover and you
don't avoid it.
> I don't want to be around them -- they give me the
> creeps. Call me a prude. (which you did) because I do not want to offer
some
> guy the right to have sex with my girlfriend in exchange for his allowing
me to
> have sex with his.
>
> I do feel superior to people who feel it is their right to copulate with
each
> and every other member of their group whenever and wherever the notion
strikes
> them.
But that isn't what swingers do.
> I feel I am more civilized than them, a little higher up the
> evolutionary ladder. It's called civilization. Check it out.
If you have to make up stories about what swingers do to feel more civilized
then you weren't civilized to begin with.
>
> If nudist clubs depend upon swingers to stay in business and at the same
time
> they claim they have no swingers there, then maybe they are in the wrong
> business.
Nobody claimed there were no swingers at Sunny Rest. Can't you get a single
detail right?
> And maybe if they were honest swingers would gravitate toward clubs
> who want them, rather than try to go to nudist clubs. Then the marketplace
> would decide just how viable nudism really is.
But they are nudists too and have every right to be there, just as much as
you do.
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
cyndiann
"Kathleen" <okeef...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
>
And one of these days maybe you will actually make your own excellent post
instead of all these "me too" and "amen" posts.
cyndiann
cyndiann
>
> "cyndiann" <cynd...@notemailtampa.com> wrote in message
> news:09e4857d6cc8a58d418a8f3a520ff6c2@TeraNews...
> > I wrote to the owner at Sunny Rest and here is what
> > she had to say.
> >
> > *******
> > I have worked very hard here at Sunny Rest to make all our guests feel
> > comfortable.
>
> Notice the word "all".
> I guess she wants the swingers to feel welcome and "comfortable" too.
> But, if the original poster is accurate, I guess she doesn't want a baby
in
> a (broken) highchair to feel comfortable.
>
> And this is EXACTLY what I was referring to earlier.
> The club is trying to be ALL THINGS TO ALL PEOPLE.
> If true, it should be kicked out of AANR again.
>
> Now, before you label me as Magoo II, I am not as critical of swingers
> themselves.
> I just don't want swinger/swinging whether overt, whispered about,
> late-night, or behind "closed doors",
> to be a part of an AANR club. Simple as that. The club owners MUST
choose.
> They cannot have
> it both ways any longer.
Why do they have to choose? All clubs have swingers in them and none have to
choose.
Why not make all of the AANR clubs drop it since they all have swingers in
them. How do I know? I took a freaking poll.
cyndiann
El Dorado Hot Spring
> What are you going to tell him? That some guy got some funny looks? So far
> he's not really presented anything concrete that AANR would object to.
They would not object to the foursome in the hot tub that Mrs. walked in on?
El Dorado Hot Spring
Dear NF,
"nudistfamily" <nudist...@killhotmailspam.com> wrote in message
news:LPxVa.2086$Bg....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> I've heard it is now owned by the wife of the previous owner, after a
> marital breakup.
> Anybody able to confirm that?
S'truth = Myra Mesher, former spouse of Buddy, who along with his father
Irving, helped build the fine reputation the place has. She asserts she'll
clean the place up and John Ordover's complaint, along with several others,
have already been passed along to her.
It's all been said before. We doubt there'll be changes.
Bill
El Dorado Hot Spring
> There is nothing bad about having swingers at a club. I don't know a club
> that does not have them.
> All clubs would fall under that category. All clubs I know of have
swingers
> that are also nudists.
This poster obviously hasn't been to many naturist and nudist venues. Either
that or the poster gravitates to where the sexpreds are. Or...?
El Dorado Hot Spring
> objectionable)out by now, you are indeed dense.
That is proven nearly every time the person posts.
El Dorado Hot Spring
> > >I know the real story, unlike Bill who guesses.
If you mean Bill Pennington, again, you prove how little you know and how
limited (apparently mostly to sexpred venues) and narrow your experiences
are.
> When I hear about something that really did happen there besides some
> attitudes he didn't like I will consider changing my opinion.
Just go there; you'll love it.
Bill
El Dorado Hot Spring
> What she means is that she feels the swing crowd are not behaving in a
The other brain dead, deaf and blind visitors you mean, correct? Or do you
mean the ones too drunk to know what's going on? Observant visitors like
Mrs. & John Ordover, as well as Jay Magoo and we can't escape what's going
on -- the abnormalties are EVERYwhere.
> You have the problem
> when you twist words just to be right.
He's telling it like it is, but false posters don't like to hear it.
El Dorado Hot Spring
Dear John,
"ORDOVER" <ord...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030730054309...@mb-m14.aol.com...
> As I've said over and over, all I ask for is truth in labelling. If a
club
> wants to have agressive swinger-pairing-up on Friday and Saturday, that's
fine
> by me. Just tell me that on the phone when I call and ask, so I can make
an
> informed decision.
EXACTLY correct.
> Btw - getting nasty looks for having our baby with us is a legitimate
> complaint. If we were told babies weren't welcome, we wouldn't have come.
This is the worst, most blatant part. Young people are our most valuable
natural resource, but sex blind people like the uninformed poster and the
owners of swing clubs, thinking with their genitals and thus unable to
recognize their self defeating behavior, will never know that, instead
encouraging others to become sultans of sleaze.
Eldo
El Dorado Hot Spring
> You probably did... that was before they became an AANR club again and the
> new owners took over.
> As I said she didn't own it then, it wasn't an AANR club so the situation
> was totally different when you were there.
This sad, chronically uninformed poster mixes things up all the time, not
having the ability to separate what's not true from what is true. The poster
twice makes it sound like the new owner took over when the sewer became an
association club once again, but as we all know, the poster is quite out of
contact with what's really going on.
The sad, chronically uninformed poster also obviously doesn't know (or is
intentionally lying to us all to make it sound different from what it
actually is) that the club was an association club at least three times
before the present owner took over. (They were regularly thrown out, which
is the reason for the three time label.)
The facts of the matter are that the new owner became the new owner only
within the last year, receiving the spoils (no pun intended) of a divorce
settlement. The renewed condoning of sexpreds by the association took place
nearly a year before that based on the false appeals of the old owner.
Still I believe there's a larger element here -- the association is losing
ground all the time and is so desperate for new members, that it will,
literally, take just about anything.
Bill
El Dorado Hot Spring
> As you know swinging exists at every
> nudist park.
A completely uninformed, lacking-in-credibility statement.
Bill
El Dorado Hot Spring
> > Then how in the world does she or anyone else even know there are
swingers
> > there?
> Why not write the owner and ask your silly question?
The sensible question tears apart all your intentional lies. It's right to
the point and not silly at all.
Bill Pennington (Real Name)
jon...@webtv.net
lies when she says SAID i harmed children.......got any ideas why
people trap themselves as liars......could be no value
system.....huh....jonZeee
Kathleen
as some of these people today have been.
Bravo to them!
But you go ahead see if you can give it a shot. It is not as easy as you seem
to think it is to write some of these wonderful mini essays we have seen today.
Kathleen
environment...there
>shouldn't BE any negative experiences
>for "social FAMILY nudists".
>
>If she values the presence of the "behind closed doors" swingers, why
>doesn't she just do us all a favor and voluntarily drop the AANR
>affiliation???
>
Kathleen
>mean the ones too drunk to know what's going on? Observant visitors like
>Mrs. & John Ordover, as well as Jay Magoo and we can't escape what's going
>on -- the abnormalties are EVERYwhere.
>
Exactly, Bill, exactly
Kathleen
>Date: 7/30/03 9:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <13491-3F...@storefull-2355.public.lawson.webtv.net>
I know exactly what you said and didn't say.
AND I know what you mean.
AND I am glad that lately the lie is being exposed more and more by
others--though I don't think they intended it to be.
ah well, the truth has a way of sneaking out and you are being proven right
more than once a day now.
nudistfamily
<jon...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:13492-3F...@storefull-2355.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Get a few things straight, loser:
1. If we return to SRL, we will leave the kids at home until we verify that
it is family oriented.
2. If we go to the beach nowadays, with the proliferation of video cell
phones, the kids will remain clothed.
Any other wise-ass remarks from you?
Kathleen
>natural resource, but sex blind people like the uninformed poster and the
>owners of swing clubs, thinking with their genitals and thus unable to
>recognize their self defeating behavior, will never know that, instead
>encouraging others to become sultans of sleaze.
>
>Eldo
>
>
Kathleen
>ground all the time and is so desperate for new members, that it will,
>literally, take just about anything.
>
>Bill
And many others believe the same.
All well said posts, Bill.
nudistfamily
There *you* go. I sincerely doubt you have been to "all" clubs. So your
statement is just speculation, even
though it MIGHT be true. If you wish to say, "all of the clubs that I know
well" have swingers in them, then fine.
and none have to
> choose.
Aah. Correct. They have not had to choose.......yet.
Soon they will.
Swingers or families. Not both.
Then let them call it the Association of Adult Naked Romping.
>How do I know? I took a freaking poll.
A poll of freaks, you mean.
ORDOVER
people have various axes to grind here, but please be careful not to put words
in my mouth. As I've stated, my only crusade here is truth-in-labelling.
Just to be clear - my major problems had nothing to do with swinging per say,
which we're not interested in but have no problem with whatsover as long as we
are not in the middle of it (I feel the same way about pro sports, for example
- if you like football, that's fine, but I don't want to be around a whole
bunch of people who are talking about it and expect me to be, because I'm not
interested).
My problem with SRL was that it was more like being told that we were going to
Chucky Cheese and finding ourselves at Studio 54.
I have no problem with the lifestyles of others. But just as I wouldn't be
particularly intersted in attending, oh, say, a rare button collector's
convention, with everyone trying to trade buttons with me, when what I was told
to expect was a convention of people who collect something I -am- interested
in.
We were more bothered by there not being a working high-chair and that the
playground equipment was in disrepair, rusty and dangerous, than by anything
else. If you don't believe me that that is the condition of the equipment,
just go there and look at it.
Finally, though, I asked specifically, on the phone, whether SRL was a swinger
place or not, and made it very clear I didn't want a swinger environment at any
level, When I asked at the desk on Friday night, I was told "sure, there are a
lot of swingers here. It's a mixed environment."
Again, my goal here is labelling. I truly don't care what other people do, I
just want to be able to sort out what's what so I can go where I want to.
btw - this would have been a good customer service response to the type of
complaint I posted, whether I was reasonable in my complaints or not:
"We're always sorry to hear that we have disappointed one of our guests, or
that one of our visitors feels they were misled in some way. We do cater to a
mixed environment and in the future will make a greater effort to make this
clear on the phone.
While we feel our prices are reasonable and our portion size generous, that's
always a matter of personal perception, and again we're sorry if we've failed
to meet any guests' expectations.
As to the condition of the high-chair and playground equipment, I have looked
into it and found that immediate improvements are warranted on both fronts. I
have begun that process and if you try us again in a few weeks, you'll find
that both problems have been recitified.
Again, it's our goal show all our visitors a wonderful time, and we're sorry
if we failed to do so on this occassion. Please give us another try so we can
do better."
Compare that to the letter that was posted here, that even includes a personal
attack, and ask yourself 1) which letter might prompt a disappointed guest to
try you again and 2) what the tone of the letter says about the level of
customer service that we recieved while we were there.
John Ordover
Mark
"Kathleen" <okeef...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
> No way. I have never been a good writer.
That is verifiable by reading your posts
> I am not anywhere near as articulate
> as some of these people today have been.
You've had no original thoughts to relate to anyone.
nudistfamily
> You know, this is why people don't like to post trip reports. :) I realize
> people have various axes to grind here, but please be careful not to put
words
> in my mouth. As I've stated, my only crusade here is truth-in-labelling.
>
> Just to be clear - my major problems had nothing to do with swinging per
say,
> which we're not interested in but have no problem with whatsover as long
as we
> are not in the middle of it (I feel the same way about pro sports,
You are a kindred spirit.
> for example
> - if you like football, that's fine, but I don't want to be around a whole
> bunch of people who are talking about it and expect me to be, because I'm
not
> interested).
>
> My problem with SRL was that it was more like being told that we were
going to
> Chucky Cheese and finding ourselves at Studio 54.
>
> I have no problem with the lifestyles of others. But just as I wouldn't
be
> particularly intersted in attending, oh, say, a rare button collector's
> convention, with everyone trying to trade buttons with me, when what I was
told
> to expect was a convention of people who collect something I -am-
interested
> in.
In this case, they weren't trading buttons. They were trading holes.
>
>
> We were more bothered by there not being a working high-chair and that the
> playground equipment was in disrepair, rusty and dangerous, than by
anything
> else. If you don't believe me that that is the condition of the
equipment,
> just go there and look at it.
>
> Finally, though, I asked specifically, on the phone, whether SRL was a
swinger
> place or not, and made it very clear I didn't want a swinger environment
at any
> level, When I asked at the desk on Friday night, I was told "sure, there
are a
> lot of swingers here. It's a mixed environment."
I'm surprised they, as an AANR club, admitted that.
>
> Again, my goal here is labelling. I truly don't care what other people
do, I
> just want to be able to sort out what's what so I can go where I want to.
>
> btw - this would have been a good customer service response to the type of
> complaint I posted, whether I was reasonable in my complaints or not:
>
> "We're always sorry to hear that we have disappointed one of our guests,
or
> that one of our visitors feels they were misled in some way. We do cater
to a
> mixed environment
Dream on. If they want to have AANR affiliation, they had better not admit
that,
especially over the phone with a stranger.
>and in the future will make a greater effort to make this
> clear on the phone.
>
> While we feel our prices are reasonable and our portion size generous,
that's
> always a matter of personal perception, and again we're sorry if we've
failed
> to meet any guests' expectations.
>
> As to the condition of the high-chair and playground equipment, I have
looked
> into it and found that immediate improvements are warranted on both
fronts. I
> have begun that process and if you try us again in a few weeks, you'll
find
> that both problems have been recitified.
>
> Again, it's our goal show all our visitors a wonderful time, and we're
sorry
> if we failed to do so on this occassion. Please give us another try so we
can
> do better."
Now, tell me how they could have responded to a complaint that "you are an
affiliate of
AANR, which claims to serve 'family social nudism'. How can you justify
your AANR
affiliation?" Be creative now!
>
> Compare that to the letter that was posted here, that even includes a
personal
> attack, and ask yourself 1) which letter might prompt a disappointed guest
to
> try you again and 2) what the tone of the letter says about the level of
> customer service that we recieved while we were there.
Hell, I'd just attribute that attitude to the proximity to NYC.
Let me tell you. I deal with New Yorkers over the phone all the time.
While most are reasonably nice (despite the obnoxious accent), the absolute
worst people
I ever deal with are from the NYC area. If only I could have picked and
chosen which
New Yorkers were in the WTC on 9/11!!
[If I have stepped on any toes here on rec.nude, stick out another foot so I
can step on more.]
cyndiann
"El Dorado Hot Spring" <HotS...@El-Dorado.com> wrote in message
news:bga7uo$2p4$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> > You probably did... that was before they became an AANR club again and
the
> > new owners took over.
>
> > As I said she didn't own it then, it wasn't an AANR club so the
situation
> > was totally different when you were there.
>
> This sad, chronically uninformed poster mixes things up all the time, not
> having the ability to separate what's not true from what is true.
I posted directly what the owner told me and what a friend that lives there
told me. I don't think the owner's words qualify as being uninformed.
cyndiann
mynudelife.com
cyndiann
"El Dorado Hot Spring" <HotS...@El-Dorado.com> wrote in message
He didn't say there was a foursome....
he hinted that it may have been one but he never said anything was actually
going on that they saw.
Given that he's mad at Sunny Rest and wanting to do them harm his statements
can't be taken as fact, especially not that one. He insinuates that
something just may have been going on but he didn't see anything he can
definitely post about so he takes a moment in time that could have been
almost anything and lets loose his imagination, causing them to be swingers
when he really doesn't have anything to base that on.
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
cyndiann
"El Dorado Hot Spring" <HotS...@El-Dorado.com> wrote in message
Or you have too much time on your hands and can't resist stirring up shit
just for the fun of it. You are the sex pred Bill.... you know I still have
all that email you sent me, telling about that woman you fuck on the side
and how you visit those "sex pred" places. What a hypocrite!
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
cyndiann
"El Dorado Hot Spring" <HotS...@El-Dorado.com> wrote in message
I've been there.....
and I'm invited up to stay with my friend if I can dig up the planefare.
Bill, if all you are going to add to this discussion is insults and inuendo
get lost.
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
cyndiann
"El Dorado Hot Spring" <HotS...@El-Dorado.com> wrote in message
>
> > What she means is that she feels the swing crowd are not behaving in a
> > manner that would be noticed by the other visitors.
>
> The other brain dead, deaf and blind visitors you mean, correct? Or do you
> mean the ones too drunk to know what's going on? Observant visitors like
> Mrs. & John Ordover, as well as Jay Magoo and we can't escape what's going
> on -- the abnormalties are EVERYwhere.
Jay hasn't been there since the new owner took it over. I've said that many
times in the past few days. Are you that stupid that you can't comprehend
what that means?
Ordover has an agenda.... he's not posting truthfully because he's out to
make the place look as bad as possible.
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
cyndiann
"Kathleen" <okeef...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
>
says the little parrot with no thoughts of her own....
cyndiann
people from all over the world. I've never had anyone say their club had
absolutely no swingers have you?
cyndiann
www.mynudelife.com
cyndiann
"El Dorado Hot Spring" <HotS...@El-Dorado.com> wrote in message
>
> Dear John,
>
> "ORDOVER" <ord...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20030730054309...@mb-m14.aol.com...
>
> > As I've said over and over, all I ask for is truth in labelling. If a
> club
> > wants to have agressive swinger-pairing-up on Friday and Saturday,
that's
> fine
> > by me. Just tell me that on the phone when I call and ask, so I can
make
> an
> > informed decision.
>
> EXACTLY correct.
>
> > Btw - getting nasty looks for having our baby with us is a legitimate
> > complaint. If we were told babies weren't welcome, we wouldn't have
come.
>
> This is the worst, most blatant part. Young people are our most valuable
> natural resource,
What do young people have to do with this thread?
> but sex blind people like the uninformed poster and the
> owners of swing clubs, thinking with their genitals and thus unable to
> recognize their self defeating behavior, will never know that, instead
> encouraging others to become sultans of sleaze.
Want me to post your words to me again Bill? You are the sleazy one....
your questions to me were way more digusting than anything that ever
happened at Sunny Rest.
cyndiann
cyndiann
Who told you that? I've asked you this a couple times now.
cyndiann
Why? Having swingers at a club isn't against AANR policies. Open swinging
is.
>
> >
> > Again, my goal here is labelling. I truly don't care what other people
> do, I
> > just want to be able to sort out what's what so I can go where I want
to.
> >
> > btw - this would have been a good customer service response to the type
of
> > complaint I posted, whether I was reasonable in my complaints or not:
> >
> > "We're always sorry to hear that we have disappointed one of our guests,
> or
> > that one of our visitors feels they were misled in some way. We do
cater
> to a
> > mixed environment
>
> Dream on. If they want to have AANR affiliation, they had better not
admit
> that,
> especially over the phone with a stranger.
I don't know why they bother... an AANR affiliation is basicly worthless.
Now this post was written in a much better manner than the original one. It
has opinions but much less attitude. I'd be more likely to believe what this
post had to say than the original one which was full of anger and inuendo.
nudistfamily
>
> "El Dorado Hot Spring" <HotS...@El-Dorado.com> wrote in message
> news:bga7um$2p4$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
> >
> > Dear John,
> >
> > "ORDOVER" <ord...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20030730054309...@mb-m14.aol.com...
> >
> > > As I've said over and over, all I ask for is truth in labelling. If a
> > club
> > > wants to have agressive swinger-pairing-up on Friday and Saturday,
> that's
> > fine
> > > by me. Just tell me that on the phone when I call and ask, so I can
> make
> > an
> > > informed decision.
> >
> > EXACTLY correct.
> >
> > > Btw - getting nasty looks for having our baby with us is a legitimate
> > > complaint. If we were told babies weren't welcome, we wouldn't have
> come.
> >
> > This is the worst, most blatant part. Young people are our most valuable
> > natural resource,
>
> What do young people have to do with this thread?
Please, let's not get into the definition of "family social nudism" again.
Just check Google from 1997-2000.
Rick Adams
I have to hand it to you JonZeee--you're the only person I've
ever met that would _admit_ to something publicly then call others
liars for saying you did it!
You are a pedophile. Live with it.
Rick
--
Rick Adams
ada...@NOSPAM.direcway.com
"... and the only measure of your worth and your deeds
will be the love you leave behind when you're gone."
Fred Small, J.D., "Everything Possible"
Rick Adams
wrote:
>They like to play naked twister. But I can see the forest for the trees.
>I know exactly what you said and didn't say.
So does everyone else in the NG.
>AND I know what you mean.
Then translate for the rest of us, because he certainly
doesn't make much sense himself.
>AND I am glad that lately the lie is being exposed more and more by
>others--though I don't think they intended it to be.
If you mean JonZeee's lie about not being a pedophile, I
agree.
>ah well, the truth has a way of sneaking out and you are being proven right
>more than once a day now.
Proven right at what, Kathleen? At his claim there are
pedophiles in the clubs he visits? That's a self-fulfilling prophecy;
if he visits a club, by definition it has a pedophile in it.
Rick Adams
wrote:
>Why are you so interested in the sex life of others to even know if people are
>swingers or not?
As it happens, Kathleen, I do research in the area of sexual
variations--including both deviancy and alternative lifestyles. I've
studied swingers extensively and in the course of doing so have met
quite a number of people who are part of the swinging lifestyle.
>Why do swingers want people to know what they do in their sex life?
Perhaps because they are no more ashamed of it than you are of
having people know you are a nudist? Ever met an "out" gay man or
lesbian? Why did _they_ want people to know about their sexual
orientation?
>Maybe because they are in the (monkey) business of recruiting and now better to
>get more people into their lifestyle then to tell others that that is one of
>the ways they enjoy sexaul relations.
You just put swingers into the same stereotyped class as gay
men with your "recruiting" statement. Are you a homophobe too, or does
your prejudice end at heterosexual behaviors you personally don't
approve of?
>Hmmm
>rick, you are now aother person that is attesting to the fact that people at
>nudist resorts make it known that they are swingers. People know.
Making something known and acting inappropriately are two
different things. A lesbian may well "make it known" that she _is_ a
lesbian, but she is unlikely to act in an inappropriate manner toward
other women at a nudist facility.
I'm sure you would strongly prefer swingers to remain in their
closets--it's even possible you would prefer homosexual men and women
to do so as well. But not everyone agrees with you that being open
about one's self is wrong.
>I applaud you for your honestly. You are another person stepping forward with
>the truth so people can make more informed decisions.
Funny--you seem to be the kind of person who would hate that.
You do, after all, insist that swingers shouldn't make it known that
they _are_ swingers at the resorts. How do you equate that "stay in
the closet" mentality with your claim that you respect those who are
truthful?
>soon swingers will take over the nudist resorts ---won't that be special.
I doubt it seriously. Outside of a few prudish hypocrites who
spend all their time worrying about what other people are doing
instead of minding their own business and living their own lives, most
nudists really don't _care_ if other members of their clubs are
swingers or not. And if they run out the prudes and the busybodies,
the rest of us will ALL enjoy our clubs more. Personally, I have no
problem with swingers at a resort so long as they are discrete in
public places (and, contrary to your scare tactics, most are) and
respect my personal choices not to be part of their lifestyle.