Nude swimming classes
RSRLI
After chatting with other nudists, I am finding an experience I had in
school was/is not widespread: nude swimming classes. During my junior and
senior high school years in Dearborn, Michigan, in the late 1960 s and
early 1970 s, our all male gym classes had swimming one week per month in
our indoor pools. Except for the life saving course, the boys swam nude.
Bathing suits were not an option until after the life saving course, but
most of us continued to swim nude. The girls classes were not nude, but
required tank suits. The only thing I have read about this tradition was
in a novel, making a reference to northern European immigrants bringing
this practice to the mid-west.
Richard
JHGOULD
>After chatting with other nudists, I am finding an
>experience I had in
>school was/is not widespread: nude swimming classes.
>During my junior and
>senior high school years in Dearborn, Michigan, in the late >1960 s and
>early 1970 s, our all male gym classes had swimming one
>week per month in
>our indoor pools. Except for the life saving course, the >boys swam
nude.
I did not have a similar experience, but I 've heard of it. Also many
other athletics were conducted nude I've heard. Especially at YMCA's.
On the flip side, I was a lifeguard at a pool. When no one else was
around, me and another naturist guard would skinny dip in the pool. What a
great feeling! I have plenty of nude beaches around, but not many nude
pools!
Lee Florack
Richard,
rs...@aol.com (RSRLI) wrote:
>After chatting with other nudists, I am finding an experience I had in
>school was/is not widespread: nude swimming classes. During my junior and
>senior high school years in Dearborn, Michigan, in the late 1960 s and
>early 1970 s, our all male gym classes had swimming one week per month in
>our indoor pools. Except for the life saving course, the boys swam nude.
>Bathing suits were not an option until after the life saving course, but
>most of us continued to swim nude. The girls classes were not nude, but
>required tank suits. The only thing I have read about this tradition was
>in a novel, making a reference to northern European immigrants bringing
>this practice to the mid-west.
>
>Richard
I graduated from high school in 1967. The boys gym classes that were in
the pool were always nude. Girls on the other hand wore very lose fitting
tank suits. I also attended YMCA swimming classes as a youngster for a
year or two and they were also nude.
It's my understanding that neither of these institutions use nude
swimming.
_________________________________________________________________
lflo...@servtech.com
lflo...@bausch.com
Posted with Forté AGENT .99e/32
pck
RSRLI wrote:
>
> After chatting with other nudists, I am finding an experience I had in
> school was/is not widespread: nude swimming classes. During my junior and
> senior high school years in Dearborn, Michigan, in the late 1960 s and
> early 1970 s, our all male gym classes had swimming one week per month in
> our indoor pools. Except for the life saving course, the boys swam nude.
> Bathing suits were not an option until after the life saving course, but
> most of us continued to swim nude. The girls classes were not nude, but
> required tank suits. The only thing I have read about this tradition was
> in a novel, making a reference to northern European immigrants bringing
> this practice to the mid-west.
>
> Richard
I grew up in Seattle and went to the "Y" for swimming classes during the
late 50's (gee - I don't feel that old!). Anyway, the boys classes were
always in the nude. The instructors wore towels around their waists. I
don't know about the girls' classes.
PHOONIST
Graduated HS in 1958--virtually all my organized pool experience was nude
right thru college gym classes. School gym swimming, YMCA pool, YMCA
camp, and a local company employee pool that allowed kids of employees to
swim in the afternoons (boys and girls at different times). As I look
back on it, most of my swimming experience as a boy was nude and in a
single sex environment--never thought much about it at the time.
Re girls--understood they had to wear pool provided tank suits--pretty
thin and not very attractive
Find today's reported body shyness in kids very different from my
experience as a youth. Failing to take a shower after gym was an absolute
no no. And communal male showers and stalless toilets a part of the
normal scene right thru my army experience in 1964 and early work
experience in a factory.
Wonder if this early nude experience is one of the reasons there are more
nudists of my generation than the succeeding ones.
Chris
RSRLI wrote:
>
> After chatting with other nudists, I am finding an experience I had in
> school was/is not widespread: nude swimming classes. During my junior and
> senior high school years in Dearborn, Michigan, in the late 1960 s and
> early 1970 s, our all male gym classes had swimming one week per month in
> our indoor pools. Except for the life saving course, the boys swam nude.
> Bathing suits were not an option until after the life saving course, but
> most of us continued to swim nude. The girls classes were not nude, but
> required tank suits. The only thing I have read about this tradition was
> in a novel, making a reference to northern European immigrants bringing
> this practice to the mid-west.
>
Massachusetts), we would swim at the Y pool at the end of each camp day,
and no swim suits were allowed; all boys were required to swim nude. I
also remember that we would have to shower first and the counselors
would inspect us for cleanliness at the pool door. If they could scrub
any dirt from your hands or arms, you were sent back down to the showers
to rewash. I'm not positive, but I believe the reason for the boys
swimming nude was to remove one more source of dirt (swim suits) and to
keep the pool cleaner. Anyway, I suspect the practice was fairly common
in the YMCA.
TanMan
I'm of your generation (HS '60) and I get a kick out of reading these
posts. Every city kid of our time learned to swim in the Y and all men
swam nude at the Y's! You are right, if you didn't take a shower after
gym, something not too pleasant happened to you. Usually coach wacked
your butt...if he did that today, he;d be looking at disgrace,
abuse/molestation charges and probably jail time.
I do think that our experiences had something to do with 40/50/60 yo
adults being the backbone of nudism. But the succeeding generations
just don't have the same interests. You only have to look at the
various fraternal/civic/social organizations that are fast becoming a
memory because of lack of membership. The Elks, Rotary, the American
Legion, and various Not-For-Profit organizations with which I am
associated are all desperately seeking ways to attract new membership
and/or volunteers with little success. Even the organized religions are
worried about the lack of participation and new membership.
The Elks, for which I toiled tirelessly for years, now admit women and
blacks and there is talk that the IBPOE (the predominately African
American Elks organization) and the BPOE will eventually merge to save
them both...the phenominum of not joing is race, creed and gender
blind.
In <4rl636$k...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> phoo...@aol.com (PHOONIST)
writes:
Simon C. Allen
In article <4rjhta$1...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, RSRLI <rs...@aol.com>
writes
>After chatting with other nudists, I am finding an experience I had in
>school was/is not widespread: nude swimming classes. During my junior and
>senior high school years in Dearborn, Michigan, in the late 1960 s and
>early 1970 s, our all male gym classes had swimming one week per month in
>our indoor pools.
>
>Richard
... and I thought that my school was unique!
In Cambridge, England in the early 60's, I learnt to swim nude.
It was a private school, and the preparatory (Junior) school to a well
known college - boys only. The reason we were told that costumes were
not to be used was to 1) remove the excuse of not being able to swim
because "I've forgotton my costume, Sir" and 2) The tatty sight of 100
costumes drying on the line and then being left behind when we went
home.
I was at the school, 1963 to 66 aged 6-9 and thought nothing of it.
Cossies were only required in a swimming gala against another school.
Although I was not in the swimming team, I remember attending the events
and that some boys still swan naked. I did not go to high school in the
U.K. so cannot say what happened in the senior school. At my school in
South Africa, it was clothing all the way in that sexually repressed
land of the late 60s and early 70s.
I have often thought that learning to swim nude is one of the reasons
that I realised nudity was for me. I am glad to say that I nude as I
sit at my PC, eventhough the UK summer weather is not that great (it was
raining a short while ago :((
Simon C. Allen
Lee S. Richardson
phoo...@aol.com (PHOONIST) wrote:
>Graduated HS in 1958--virtually all my organized pool experience was nude
>right thru college gym classes. School gym swimming, YMCA pool, YMCA
>camp, and a local company employee pool that allowed kids of employees to
>swim in the afternoons (boys and girls at different times). As I look
>back on it, most of my swimming experience as a boy was nude and in a
>single sex environment--never thought much about it at the time.
>Re girls--understood they had to wear pool provided tank suits--pretty
>thin and not very attractive
>Find today's reported body shyness in kids very different from my
>experience as a youth. Failing to take a shower after gym was an absolute
>no no. And communal male showers and stalless toilets a part of the
>normal scene right thru my army experience in 1964 and early work
>experience in a factory.
>Wonder if this early nude experience is one of the reasons there are more
>nudists of my generation than the succeeding ones.
I suspect that you are right--I graduated from HS in 1946, and all
swimming was nude, mono-sex except in the public (city) pools, which
were textile oonly. When the big polio scares decreased the
attendance at all pools, many of the school pools opened to everybody,
and started requiring suits. (If you can figure out their reasoning,
let me know--I never could). My time in the military confirmed the
body acceptance of those times. (Of course, I was exceedingly skinny
in those days--115 pounds on a 6 foot frame, so I just had to turn
sideways and nobody could see me).
L.
J. P. Griffin
In article <4rmnla$f...@news.internetmci.com>, ele...@TurboNet.com wrote:
[snip ]
>
> I suspect that you are right--I graduated from HS in 1946, and all
> swimming was nude, mono-sex except in the public (city) pools, which
> were textile oonly. When the big polio scares decreased the
> attendance at all pools, many of the school pools opened to everybody,
> and started requiring suits. (If you can figure out their reasoning,
> let me know--I never could). My time in the military confirmed the
> body acceptance of those times. (Of course, I was exceedingly skinny
> in those days--115 pounds on a 6 foot frame, so I just had to turn
> sideways and nobody could see me).
>
> L.
Lee as usual hits bang on the head.
I'm not *quite* his age - graduated HS in 1971, and am currently 43. We
never got to swim nude.
My Dad worked for a big oil company in Oklahoma (Bartlesville,
specifically, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Phillips Petroleum Co).
They had an athletic facility in one of their main buildings that included
a pool. I'll never forget the sign in the locker room that said, "Shower
in the NUDE before entering the pool." For *years* I thought that the
"NUDE" was the name of the room where one was to shower.
As to the military --- I spent 5+ yrs as a naval officer. Sunning on the
deck of the ship (a cruiser) nude was just not done. Later, when
transporting via an oiler, I encountered a helo pilot assigned to the ship
who regularly sunned nude. I guess it was the different styles of the
Captains -- cruiser Captains are in line for admiral positions and pretty
conservative.
I wasn't exactly 6 feet tall, but was also exceedingly skinny. Never
thought of turning sideways.
--
Jim Griffin - TNS/AANR - gri...@voyageronline.net
"You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time,
and that's sufficient"
DPistor
I am a 17 year old male, and im in high school right now. There is no
pool at my school, but to touch on the point of showers after class. No
one is allowed to shower even, i always thought this was odd. throughout
my life, i have never been allowed to be nude, ever and i think that adds
to my self consiousness of being nude. i would love to be nude but i feel
like its wrong when i am nude
Dan
David M. Spera
Chris <c_cu...@conknet.com> wrote:
>RSRLI wrote:
>> RichardRichard, when I was a boy in YMCA daycamp (back in the 50's, Holyoke
>Massachusetts), we would swim at the Y pool at the end of each camp day,
>and no swim suits were allowed; all boys were required to swim nude. I
>also remember that we would have to shower first and the counselors
>would inspect us for cleanliness at the pool door. If they could scrub
>any dirt from your hands or arms, you were sent back down to the showers
>to rewash. I'm not positive, but I believe the reason for the boys
>swimming nude was to remove one more source of dirt (swim suits) and to
>keep the pool cleaner. Anyway, I suspect the practice was fairly common
>in the YMCA.
Are there any YMCA's left that still allow nude swimming?
--Dave
Keith Alexander Liblick
If I were you i would check with your teacher about. I wouldn't
even bring up anything about being nude, just that you feel sweaty
after gym class.
I am now 22 and when I was in school no one took showers (we were
only given 3 minutes to change. But were required to have a towel
in our locker.
--
Keith A Liblick | klib...@ic.sunysb.edu
Rex Hunt
>> school was/is not widespread: nude swimming classes. During my junior and
>> senior high school years in Dearborn, Michigan, in the late 1960 s and
>> early 1970 s, our all male gym classes had swimming one week per month in
>> Bathing suits were not an option until after the life saving course, but
>> most of us continued to swim nude. The girls classes were not nude, but
>> required tank suits. The only thing I have read about this tradition was
>> in a novel, making a reference to northern European immigrants bringing
>> this practice to the mid-west.
>>
>Massachusetts), we would swim at the Y pool at the end of each camp day,
>and no swim suits were allowed; all boys were required to swim nude. I
>also remember that we would have to shower first and the counselors
>would inspect us for cleanliness at the pool door. If they could scrub
>any dirt from your hands or arms, you were sent back down to the showers
>to rewash. I'm not positive, but I believe the reason for the boys
>swimming nude was to remove one more source of dirt (swim suits) and to
>keep the pool cleaner. Anyway, I suspect the practice was fairly common
>in the YMCA.
>
nude. The reason I heard was that the swim suits of the day -- actually
an earlier day -- were wool and wreaked havoc with the filters. Same
reason women had to wear bathing caps.
Rex
Mark Levy
Things sure have changed. When I was in high school, wayyyyy back in the early 70s,
showers after gym class were REQUIRED. You weren't permitted to leave the locker room
until you had showered. Although some school personnel took this a (ahem) little too
far, with "towel checks" and other methods of ensuring compliance, I still feel that
this was a good thing.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE NEW ADDRESS!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Levy, N9RXF | Unix: The only computer virus with
System Management Associates | a user interface (such as it is...)
LEV...@WORLDNET.ATT.NET | Friends don't let friends use Unix!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Unix "file system"
Sure it corrupts your data, but look how fast it is!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David M. Spera
r...@bpo.bus.indiana.edu (Rex Hunt) wrote:
>In article <31DE49...@conknet.com>, Chris <c_cu...@conknet.com> wrote:
>>RSRLI wrote:
>>>
>>> After chatting with other nudists, I am finding an experience I had in
>>> school was/is not widespread: nude swimming classes. During my junior and
>>> senior high school years in Dearborn, Michigan, in the late 1960 s and
>>> early 1970 s, our all male gym classes had swimming one week per month in
>>> our indoor pools. Except for the life saving course, the boys swam nude.
>>> Bathing suits were not an option until after the life saving course, but
>>> most of us continued to swim nude. The girls classes were not nude, but
>>> required tank suits. The only thing I have read about this tradition was
>>> in a novel, making a reference to northern European immigrants bringing
>>> this practice to the mid-west.
For the record, HS class of '68 and the YMCA swimming classes were all
>nude. The reason I heard was that the swim suits of the day -- actually
>an earlier day -- were wool and wreaked havoc with the filters. Same
>reason women had to wear bathing caps.
>
But why then did the girls wear suits? Weren't they wool also?
--Dave
David M. Spera
Mark Levy <LEV...@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> wrote:
>Keith Alexander Liblick wrote:
>>
>> In article <4rn9b4$b...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> dpi...@aol.com (DPistor) writes:
>> >I am a 17 year old male, and im in high school right now. There is no
>> >pool at my school, but to touch on the point of showers after class. No
>> >one is allowed to shower even, i always thought this was odd. throughout
>> >my life, i have never been allowed to be nude, ever and i think that adds
>> >to my self consiousness of being nude. i would love to be nude but i feel
>> >like its wrong when i am nude
>>
>> If I were you i would check with your teacher about. I wouldn't
>> even bring up anything about being nude, just that you feel sweaty
>> after gym class.
>>
>> I am now 22 and when I was in school no one took showers (we were
>> only given 3 minutes to change. But were required to have a towel
>> in our locker.
>>
>> --
>> Keith A Liblick | klib...@ic.sunysb.edu
>
>Things sure have changed. When I was in high school, wayyyyy back in the early 70s,
>showers after gym class were REQUIRED. You weren't permitted to leave the locker room
>until you had showered. Although some school personnel took this a (ahem) little too
>far, with "towel checks" and other methods of ensuring compliance, I still feel that
>this was a good thing.
>
Boy they have changed. In junior high if we even hinted that we
weren't going to take a shower because class was too easy that
period, the gym teacher would make us crawl across the gym floor
on our bellies to get us dirty enough that we wanted to take a shower.
--Dave
John Anderson
> >Massachusetts), we would swim at the Y pool at the end of each camp day,
> >and no swim suits were allowed; all boys were required to swim nude. I
> >also remember that we would have to shower first and the counselors
> >would inspect us for cleanliness at the pool door. If they could scrub
> >any dirt from your hands or arms, you were sent back down to the showers
> >to rewash. I'm not positive, but I believe the reason for the boys
> >swimming nude was to remove one more source of dirt (swim suits) and to
> >keep the pool cleaner. Anyway, I suspect the practice was fairly common
> >in the YMCA.
>
>
> --Dave
>
save the lint from the filters, but then made it optional as new
polester suits came out, then, at complaints of younger boys, began to
require suits for all swimming. But even today, signs say "Nude shower
required before swim" at city pools, but just try it, little boys will
run in and out giggling like girls, older boys and men will think you
are a homo, and you may even get a proposal.......enuf said!
The textile world today can not separate nudity and sex! I am single,
but was married years ago. I would like to experience a nudist park, but
don't know where to go. I hear that there is a park east of Hamilton,
IL in Hancock county, and not too far away, but know nothing more than
that. John Anderson
Sequoia
-> From: lflo...@servtech.com (Lee Florack)
-> Subject: Re: Nude swimming classes
->
-> Richard,
->
-> rs...@aol.com (RSRLI) wrote:
->
-> >After chatting with other nudists, I am finding an experience I had
-> >school was/is not widespread: nude swimming classes. During my juni
-> >senior high school years in Dearborn, Michigan, in the late 1960 s a
-> >early 1970 s, our all male gym classes had swimming one week per mon
-> >our indoor pools. Except for the life saving course, the boys swam
-> >Bathing suits were not an option until after the life saving course,
-> >most of us continued to swim nude. The girls classes were not
-> nude, but >required tank suits. The only thing I have read about
-> this tradition was >in a novel, making a reference to northern
-> European immigrants bringing >this practice to the mid-west.
-> >
-> >Richard
->
-> I graduated from high school in 1967. The boys gym classes that were
-> the pool were always nude. Girls on the other hand wore very lose fi
-> tank suits. I also attended YMCA swimming classes as a youngster for
-> year or two and they were also nude.
->
-> It's my understanding that neither of these institutions use nude
-> swimming.
->
-> _________________________________________________________________
-> lflo...@servtech.com
-> lflo...@bausch.com
-> Posted with Forté AGENT .99e/32
The High School I attended in a near west suburb of Chicago had nude
swimming classes for the boys only until the middle of the '70's. At
that time the classes went co-ed and suits became mandatory.
Sequoia
yon...@dmv.com
"David M. Spera" <sp...@telerama.lm.com> wrote:
>Chris <c_cu...@conknet.com> wrote:
>>
>Are there any YMCA's left that still allow nude swimming?
>--Dave
>sp...@telerama.lm.com
I don't know the answer, but at my local "Y" it is stated in the rules
and regulations that a bathing suit is required in the swimming pool.
>
Able&Ready
> phoo...@aol.com (PHOONIST) wrote:
> Graduated HS in 1958--virtually all my organized pool experience was nude
> right thru college gym classes. School gym swimming, YMCA pool, YMCA
> camp, and a local company employee pool that allowed kids of employees to
> swim in the afternoons (boys and girls at different times). As I look
> back on it, most of my swimming experience as a boy was nude and in a
> single sex environment--never thought much about it at the time.
I had similar experiences with one substancial difference. I was taking boys only
swimming lessons taught by a male instructor and we (students) were always nude and
thought nothing of being nude for the simming. This happened from the time I was
8 until I was 12 at the local YMCA.
Parents were allowed to come and sit in the bleachers and watch the lessons if they
like and often did. It was a little embarrasing to be naked in front of other kids
parents when we weren't in the water. One time my mom came to watch & brought
my aunt and a friend of her's & I spent as much time as I could in the water because I
was embarrassed. But looking back on it I actually think it helped build
character and stamina.
I remember that one time our instructor was sick and the FEMALE instructor substituted,
all the boys were naked, we weren't expecting a (female) substitute. We did the class
anyway. Then one time the female instructor got sick & they canceled the girl's
class rather than have the male instructor substitute. According to my sister
the girls classes were naked also.
This was about 1961-65.
Linhowhugh
When I was at the junior school 1955-7 We used to swim at the senior
schools indoor pool in the nude except when there were competitions with
spectataors such as parents,trunks were then worn.
When I went to the senior school all activities were clothed except at the
begining of term when the new Gym teacher measured everyone's height and
weight.
The weighing machine was a seat on a table with those weights that slide
up and down a balance arm.For a few terms one had to drop ones shorts to
be weighed.This was then discontinued.The Gym teacher had previously been
in the army.
Both these schools were boys only and in the UK.
I have been a naturist for 22 years and know that to swim nude is without
doubt the best way.
Linton
ec...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
In article <4rn9b4$b...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, dpi...@aol.com (DPistor) writes:
> I am a 17 year old male, and im in high school right now. There is no
> pool at my school, but to touch on the point of showers after class. No
> one is allowed to shower even, i always thought this was odd.
Now that sounds like a new one to me. Is it because your gym has no showers, or
perhaps you live in an area with water shortages, or is your area very
"puritanical???"
throughout
> my life, i have never been allowed to be nude, ever and i think that adds
> to my self consiousness of being nude. i would love to be nude but i feel
> like its wrong when i am nude
>
It's not wrong to be nude - unfortunately society is not as tolerant as they
once were. Don't feel badly, I never had nude swimming lessons, but we did have
group showers after gym in high school. If you like being nude, you might want
to consider (if you have some $$$) joining a fitness center with sauna/steam
rooms. If you like it - then you may also want to explore naturalist spots, but
as a single guy - you may have some trouble being admitted.
Gene
> Dan
Oleg Sokolsky
John Anderson <john...@interl.net> writes:
> ymca in Burlington Iowa used to require boys to swim nude, presumely to
> save the lint from the filters, but then made it optional as new
> polester suits came out, then, at complaints of younger boys, began to
> require suits for all swimming. But even today, signs say "Nude shower
> required before swim" at city pools, but just try it, little boys will
> run in and out giggling like girls, older boys and men will think you
> are a homo, and you may even get a proposal.......enuf said!
YMCA in Ardmore (just outside of Philadelphia) also has this sign.
It is true that majority of users ignore it, but I've been showering
nude without any hassles, and I was not the only one.
Oleg
--
----------------------------------------------------------------+
Oleg Sokolsky soko...@cccc.com |
Computer Scientist ol...@cs.sunysb.edu |
|
Computer Command & Control Co. work: (215)854-0128 |
2300 Chestnut St. Su.230 fax: (215)854-0665 |
Philadelphia, PA 19103 |
----------------------------------------------------------------+
Rich Pasco
Adding my two cents' worth:
I learned to swim as a ten-year-old at the YMCA in Westfield, NJ around
1960, and all the boys in the class were required to be nude. It was a
great leveller (our "suits" were all the same, regardless of social
class) and felt wonderful, but I never could understand why the teacher
(an adult male) always wore a suit even though we were prohibited to
wear them. I took it that because his body was big and hairy he was
somehow "different" from us...
- Rich
Rob
There were no nude swiming classes when for me when I was growing up, but I know others
of my age (I'm 37) who took swimming classes in the nude.
When I took my first swimming and gym classes that required changing clothes in front of
others, I was very uncomfortable. This would have been when I was 10 or 11 years old;
around 1969. I imagine that I would have been absolutely horrified at the idea of swimming
nude with other boys. I'm not sure why I had this shyness--my parents were fairly open. I
think it's just something that some folks naturally have. Now I love to swim nude, alone or
with others, and that shyness is gone.
More thoughts on the subject:
I recall that around the late 1970s, the Pittsburgh YMCA decided to go co-ed. At that time,
there were a number of items in the news about the male members who were upset that they
would no longer be able to swim in the nude--which they had apparently been doing for quite
a long time.
A few years ago I saw a book of historic sports photos. Flipping through it, I noticed a shot,
taken in a YMCA, of an entire gymnasium full of men exercising (doing toe touches I think)
in the nude. I think the picture was taken around the 1920s or 30s, although I'm not sure. It
stuck in my mind because I knew this would never happen today.
I suspect that in today's climate, a male gym teacher asking his young male students to swim
or exercise nude would be derisively labelled a "fag" by the students. And a male scout master
skinny dipping with his boy scout troup on a camping trip to a remote lake would be labelled a
pervert, pedophile and child molester by the many of kids' parents if they learned of it. But in
the past, many of these sorts of activities seem to have been common, perfectly natural and
harmless. How sad that our society has become so paranoid as try to find a perverse sexual
interpretation to every situation.
Comments?
DA
While maybe straying slightly from the topic, while camping at the beach I
have noticed the hestitancy of younger males to undress in the communial
dressing area's of the campground bathhouses.
Generally there are doors on the showers but the dressing area is open,
most youngsters would opt to enter the shower stall and undress and hang
their clothes on top of the door, rather than undress and place their
clothes on the benches and hooks provided in the dressing area.
I did not find that the older males did this, they mainly chose to
strip down and then go into the stalls, and after showering they would come
out and dry off in the communial area.
My wife tells me that usually this is not the case in the Ladies Bathhouse,
with most people stripping and drying off in the communial area's.
Does this indicate that females are less concerned with public nudity than
the guys? Does anyone else have any observations in this area?
Leo Savage
On 9 Jul 1996, DA wrote:
> Generally there are doors on the showers but the dressing area is open,
> most youngsters would opt to enter the shower stall and undress and hang
> their clothes on top of the door, rather than undress and place their
> clothes on the benches and hooks provided in the dressing area.
>
> I did not find that the older males did this, they mainly chose to
> strip down and then go into the stalls, and after showering they would come
> out and dry off in the communial area.
>
> My wife tells me that usually this is not the case in the Ladies Bathhouse,
> with most people stripping and drying off in the communial area's.
>
> Does this indicate that females are less concerned with public nudity than
> the guys? Does anyone else have any observations in this area?
It probably means that younger men these days have been the most heavily
brow-beaten regarding public nudity (or semi-public, I guess this would
be). The design of various facilities such as you describe, taken with
the stories of long ago nude swimming at YMCAs and Boy Scout camping
trips, are evidence that this is a recent phenomenon.
I would surmise that there has been a recent (last 30 years?) shift in
parenting, where boys in particular are being taught to never be seen
naked _by other boys_.
The reason why could use some pondering. Offhand it might be fallout from
The Great Pedophilia Scare. I know when my nephews were younger my sister
once expressed concern about allowing them to go to the men's room by
themselves, lest there be a "strange man" in there. (I did assure her
that in a lifetime of going to the men's room I have yet to encounter a
"strange man" in there, which seemed to help some.) Still, it seems odd
that boys would have gotten this more heavily than girls. Maybe it's
harder to get boys to keep their clothes on?
Any thoughts, Tony? You tend to think deep and straight.
As for me, I generally try to go either by how everyone else is acting, or
by the design of the facility. Sometimes the latter is difficult to
decipher, though. Perhaps the oddest I've encountered are the bath houses
at Assateague. They have open showers outdoors, then inside the bath
house they have enclosed stalls for changing but open showers. It seems
apparent that it's okay (expected?) to use the inside showers nude, since
if you're going to keep your suit on you could just use the outside
showers. But why the private stalls? Maybe you're supposed to undress
inside a stall, then shower openly, then go back to a stall to get
dressed?
--
("`-/")_.-'"``-._ Leo "doc" Savage
. . `; -._ )-;-,_`)
(v_,)' _ )`-.\ ``-' l...@esva.net
_.- _..-_/ / ((.'
((,.-' ((,/ http://www.esva.net/~leo/
Mike Paley
In article: <4rua7e$c...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com>
man...@usa.pipeline.com(DA) writes:
:) While maybe straying slightly from the topic, while camping at the beach
I
:) have noticed the hestitancy of younger males to undress in the communial
:) dressing area's of the campground bathhouses.
:) Generally there are doors on the showers but the dressing area is
open,
:) most youngsters would opt to enter the shower stall and undress and hang
:) their clothes on top of the door, rather than undress and place their
:) clothes on the benches and hooks provided in the dressing area.
:)
:) I did not find that the older males did this, they mainly chose to
:) strip down and then go into the stalls, and after showering they would
come
:) out and dry off in the communial area.
:)
:) My wife tells me that usually this is not the case in the Ladies
Bathhouse,
:) with most people stripping and drying off in the communial area's.
:)
:) Does this indicate that females are less concerned with public nudity
than
:) the guys? Does anyone else have any observations in this area?
:)
:)
Females are a different sex, need I say more ?
I think females tend to touch each other more than males, they are perhaps
more accepting of others of their sex.
I guess, (talking from experience ??) that the lads worry about penis size -
and you can only blame their parents for letting them get in this poor state
of mind.
--
Comm again, Mike.
If you havn't tried Naturism, you don't know what your missing.
If you want to see the rest of this sig file, please ask !
Steve Swartzell
On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, Mike Paley wrote:
> In article: <4rua7e$c...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com>
> man...@usa.pipeline.com(DA) writes:
[snip]
> :) have noticed the hestitancy of younger males to undress in the communial
> :) dressing area's of the campground bathhouses.
> :) Generally there are doors on the showers but the dressing area is
> open,
> :) most youngsters would opt to enter the shower stall and undress and hang
> :) their clothes on top of the door, rather than undress and place their
> :) clothes on the benches and hooks provided in the dressing area.
> :)
> :) I did not find that the older males did this, they mainly chose to
> :) strip down and then go into the stalls, and after showering they would
> come
> :) out and dry off in the communial area.
> :)
> :) My wife tells me that usually this is not the case in the Ladies
> Bathhouse,
> :) with most people stripping and drying off in the communial area's.
> :)
> :) Does this indicate that females are less concerned with public nudity
> than
This may be the case in the UK but I don't believe it is true in the US
In most high school and college locker rooms that I have seen here in the
Seattle area the boys(mens) locker rooms have open shower areas and most
of the guys tend to walk around without covering up while the
girls(womens) locker rooms do have communal shower areas but they also
have idividual stalls where they can shower in relative privacy.I have
never seen, in all the time I was growing up and now that I am an adult a
mens locker room with private stalls except at resorts or camping areas.
Also from
what I here most women walk around in the locker room with some sort of
wrap around them until they get in the showers.
> Females are a different sex, need I say more ?
Agreed! =)
> I think females tend to touch each other more than males, they are perhaps
> more accepting of others of their sex.
IMHO females are more excepting of others of their sex but they are also
more concerned with body image.
[snip]
talk to you later
Steve
______________________________________________________________________________
Steven M. Swartzell
University of Washington, box 352145
Seattle, Washington 98195-2145
email:swar...@u.washington.edu
______________________________________________________________________________
DA
On Jul 11, 1996 11:07:20 in article <Re: Nude swimming classes>, 'Steve
Adding more to this, during a past trip to Paradise lakes in Fla, we
noticed that there were several teen girls sunbathing nude around the pool,
while many teen boys simply walking around in shorts and shirts. Of maybe
30 teens we noticed only two boys who were in fact nude, and only 4 girls
who were dressed. Two young teen boys were swimming in the pool with suits
on, someone from Paradise management asked them to remove the suits or not
use the pool (paradise is clothes optional, except for in the pool or hot
tub where nude is the rule) the boys argued for several minutes before
skulking off to swim in the lake (still in their suits).
About twenty minutes later a couple with a young teen girl came down
to the pool, the parents nude but the girl in a swim suit, when the
Paradise staff asked her to remove the suit to swim she smiled and slipped
out of it.
Maybe more credence to my belief that the females care less about public or
semi-public nudisty than the young males do.
Coyote
In article <4s3qit$k...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com> man...@usa.pipeline.com(DA) writes:
>Adding more to this, during a past trip to Paradise lakes in Fla, we
>noticed that there were several teen girls sunbathing nude around the pool,
>while many teen boys simply walking around in shorts and shirts. Of maybe
>30 teens we noticed only two boys who were in fact nude, and only 4 girls
>who were dressed. Two young teen boys were swimming in the pool with suits
>on, someone from Paradise management asked them to remove the suits or not
>use the pool (paradise is clothes optional, except for in the pool or hot
>tub where nude is the rule) the boys argued for several minutes before
>skulking off to swim in the lake (still in their suits).
>
> About twenty minutes later a couple with a young teen girl came down
>to the pool, the parents nude but the girl in a swim suit, when the
>Paradise staff asked her to remove the suit to swim she smiled and slipped
>out of it.
I wonder if this can be attributed to a more exhibitionist nature? As men
are visually stimulated, I would think that women would have developed some
form of genetically linked exhibitionistic traits. If this were the case, one
would expect to find evidence within everyday society. And, I think one can
find much in general society that would support this hypothesis. Women are
constantly trying to draw attention to their physical forms. Either by
applying gobs of makeup, wearing the tightest jeans and low cut tops, or
the very skimpiest of swim suites at the textile beaches and pools. As to
a genetic link, I would believe that this could be a "survival of species"
mechanism. Those women with the "exhibitionist trait" would have a better
chance of attracting a mate then those women who would hide their figures.
Guys, OTOH, are quite competitive by nature, and a guy with "inferior"
equipment (or a young pre-teen to early teen who has not yet developed) may
be fearful of redicule over the size of his organ when compared to that of
other young men. By refusing to disrobe they are in effect protecting
their egos (which for most guys seems to be of utmost importance), and not
risking the sometimes cruel abuse that children seem to be so easily able
to hand out to one another.
Anyway... just my $.02 worth.
William Epperly | Any advertising man who is guilty
epp...@cs.odu.edu | of perpetrating such drivel as you
| have sent me has something wrong
with his medulla oblongata. --
-- Dale Carnegie
Richard Kenner
In article <4s3qit$k...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com> man...@usa.pipeline.com(DA) writes:
>someone from Paradise management asked them to remove the suits or not
>use the pool (paradise is clothes optional, except for in the pool or hot
>tub where nude is the rule)
This is not the case currently and hasn't been for quite a while.
Paradise Lakes is clothing optional everywhere.
>the boys argued for several minutes before
>skulking off to swim in the lake (still in their suits).
Ah! This dates it somewhat. People don't swim in the lake anymore
and haven't in years. Also, the fact they were near the lake implies
they were at the Phase I pool, which probably means it was before
Phase III construction was finished some 5-6 years sgo.
RSRLI
I started this thread a week or two ago. What I find very interesting is
when I was in junior and senior high school (late '60's and early 70's),
the boys had nude swimming classes and the girls wore tank suits. I had
thought part of the reason for this was girls were taught (by society and
males) to be modest about their bodies, whereas boys were not. Why a 180
degree change in less than 30 years? Could part of it be the male sex was
the proud sex then and now the proud sex is female. I may get a lot of
flames for this controversial idea, but from what I observe currently,
within the younger generation, the females are considered dominate to the
males. Therefore, the males have a inferiority complex which affects
their body image.
Go ahead and torch me!
Richard
RobEdmonds
>Adding more to this, during a past trip to Paradise lakes >in Fla, we
>noticed that there were several teen girls sunbathing >nude around the
pool,
>while many teen boys simply walking around in shorts and >shirts. Of
maybe
>30 teens we noticed only two boys who were in fact nude, >and only 4
girls
>who were dressed.
This is different from what many describe as typical experience. In
general, young women are thought of as wrapping or covering up at resorts
while males are usually all nude. Women are sometimes seen to cover up
nervously as soon as they leave the water, for example.
RE
Nafana
In article <4s3qit$k...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com>, man...@usa.pipeline.co
says...
>>
>Adding more to this, during a past trip to Paradise lakes in Fla, we
>noticed that there were several teen girls sunbathing nude around the pool,
>while many teen boys simply walking around in shorts and shirts. Of maybe
>30 teens we noticed only two boys who were in fact nude, and only 4 girls
>who were dressed. Two young teen boys were swimming in the pool with suits
>on, someone from Paradise management asked them to remove the suits or not
>use the pool (paradise is clothes optional, except for in the pool or hot
>tub where nude is the rule) the boys argued for several minutes before
>skulking off to swim in the lake (still in their suits).
>
I definitely agree that today's kids (and boys in particular) are much more
uncomfortable about nudity than in the past. One reason for this I think is
that due to AIDS,Gay-rights,ect, kids are much more aware of homosexuality
now and so being nude (even among one's own sex) has sexual connotations
which didn't exist in past generations.
RobEdmonds
> I may get a lot of flames for this controversial idea, but
>generation, the females are considered dominate to the
>males.
No flames, no controversy that's 100% true. They've taken over the reigns
in everything where we used to have power, while still retaining all the
power they ever had in other disciplines before. For example, now, when
they are intersted a guy, they just ask him out themselves. That sounds
good at first, until you realize that there are a lot of "less
interesting" guys in the past who were able to secure relationships mainly
because they were the ones that had the courage to ask her out. Now
those guys don't stand chance, because as soon as the woman decides she's
"eligible" she just goes out and picks the one she wants. You couple this
type of thing with their newly earned power in the workplace and politics,
and contemporary young woman seems to be about the most frightening thing
ever unleashed on this planet to today's young guy.
RE
man...@usa.pipeline.com
On Jul 12, 1996 12:02:22 in article <Re: Nude swimming classes>,
'ken...@lab.ultra.nyu.edu (Richard Kenner)' wrote:
>In article <4s3qit$k...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com>
man...@usa.pipeline.com(DA)
>writes:
>>use the pool (paradise is clothes optional, except for in the pool or hot
>>tub where nude is the rule)
>
>This is not the case currently and hasn't been for quite a while.
>Paradise Lakes is clothing optional everywhere.
>
>>the boys argued for several minutes before
>>skulking off to swim in the lake (still in their suits).
>
>Ah! This dates it somewhat. People don't swim in the lake anymore
>and haven't in years. Also, the fact they were near the lake implies
>they were at the Phase I pool, which probably means it was before
>Phase III construction was finished some 5-6 years sgo.
This was indeed several years ago, we haven't been to Paradise in about 5
years, didn't know about the clothes optional everywhere rule now. What has
this done to the club? do most people wear swimsuits now?
Richard Kenner
In article <4s88j0$4...@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com> man...@usa.pipeline.com writes:
>This was indeed several years ago, we haven't been to Paradise in about 5
>years, didn't know about the clothes optional everywhere rule now. What has
>this done to the club?
It's made it possible to bring more first-timers in since they often want
the security of knowing they won't be forced to be nude.
>do most people wear swimsuits now?
Of course not! About the only people you see in the pool wearing
anything are teenagers.
Simon C. Allen
In article <4s7mvu$7...@perseus.peganet.com>, Nafana <naf...@peganet.com>
writes
>
> I definitely agree that today's kids (and boys in particular) are much more
>uncomfortable about nudity than in the past. One reason for this I think is
>that due to AIDS,Gay-rights,ect, kids are much more aware of homosexuality
>now and so being nude (even among one's own sex) has sexual connotations
>which didn't exist in past generations.
>
My partner and I go to the local baths with friends for regular swimming
every Wednesday. We recently compared notes about behaviour in the
changing rooms.
The rooms are (apparently) identical, with large open spaces and two
smaller areas of privacy. In my side, men over 35-ish are far more
likely to strip in the communal shower area and to dress/undress without
fumbling under a towel.
However, we have found that, in the showers it is often the case that
if, when I get to the shower area it is completely vacant those that
follow seem more likely to strip! I cannot say this is always the case
but, if the showers have several men with their trunks still on and I
remove mine, the next man often does too.
I do not think I am being propositioned as Donna says that she and her
friend have exactly the same experience next door! We are in our late
30s and the people around us male and female conform to this new
sterotype.
So - show the way and see who follows but the young guys 10/29 are very,
very, cautious in the way that they undress. Yet, when the 18/23 guys
are in their form hugging costumes - that show every bulge - they parade
like stags. Funny old world.
Simon C. Allen
BAYCITVIDGRP
In <4s8a7u$p...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> robed...@aol.com (RobEdmonds)
writes:
>> I may get a lot of flames for this controversial idea, but
>>from what I observe currently,within the younger
>>generation, the females are considered dominate to the
>>males.
>
>No flames, no controversy that's 100% true. They've taken over the
reigns
>in everything where we used to have power, while still retaining all
the
>power they ever had in other disciplines before.
GET REAL ROB......
So, when I was a lifeguard and swimming instructor and pool mgr
and more....if a fem asks me out because she sees me in my skin
that this gives her power over me.....for asking me out? for
thinking that my body was the reason that she came to me in the
first place and took a chance that "others" had beat her to me.
I think you need an education about yourself first and women last.
When I lived in Honolulu and worked on the beach I never had to
be the asker of women to go out with me...some ritual which got
old, fast. On the beach...if her smile is enough and yours is
enough to get her juices flowing, why should she not approach by
asking me: "hi, I need some advice for which you are overly
qualified for"...and boy, am I hooked? How can I say no to this
intelligent female who is able to "understand me" this way....
Women came on to me...in Honolulu at the beach, while walking
in Waikiki, surfing up at Makaha or belly boarding at Sandy
I never felt that they owned me. Or had some diabolical scheme
in mind...some did. some were not so "nice".
More fine women than bad ones. Really nice females who were able
to "speak" from their soul as they began their approach towards me
and I saw it coming...I could have turned the other way and ran
away.
No way brah....women are women and to label them as 'wrong' for
being OPEN is your problem, not theirs. when we had a recession
in Honolulu tourists no come and have to get work....drive cab
and then the local women approach in cab or women on their vacation
and I found them charming and delightful.
Your contention is shallow as are your attitudes about the female
sex. Moah bettah u get some doctah to fill da puka in yoah head.
your mind is malo.
bill conduit
David M. Spera
alev...@aol.com (Al EvansJr) wrote:
>
>Societal conditioning probably has a lot to do with it. One only has to
>look at what passes for "shorts" or "swim suits" nowadays for boys and
>men. All they are is long pants with the bottom half of the legs cut off
>at or below the knee. One effect of this (other than making boys a lot
>more uncomfortable than they need to be during hot weather, I'd imagine)
>would be to subliminally teach a boy that he has to cover as much of his
>body as possible at all times.
>
Just last weekend I tried to buy some new shorts. I couldn't believe
how long they are now! They must be uncomfortable in hot weather. Maybe
I'll just have to cut off some old jeans (if the waist fits :).
--Dave
Jon Tufts
On 14 Jul 1996 16:20:57 GMT, "David M. Spera" <sp...@telerama.lm.com>
wrote:
>alev...@aol.com (Al EvansJr) wrote:
This silly trend the clothing manufacturers have taken toward making
shorts knee length for men and boys has bugged me as well. I am in
favor of being able to buy the shortest possible shorts that I can and
have had to hunt through quite a few stores before finding anything
that I like. Another trick I have taken to doing is to take those
long shorts to my tailor, who by now has gotten the idea that I like
to showoff a bit :) and had him shorten them to the length that I
like. It is particularly fun when it comes time for him to put pins
in the cloth near my crotch.
William A. Elbert
I agree that nude swimming just seems natural. Too bad the opportunity is virtually
nonexistent nowadays. I never had the opportunity when I was growing up, although I
read that some YMCA facilities offered nude male swimming. What's interesting to note
is that nude swimming is not offered even in cities that have both a YMCA and a YWCA.
William
Al EvansJr
<<we noticed only two boys who were in fact nude, and only 4 girls
who were dressed. Two young teen boys were swimming in the pool with suits
use the pool (paradise is clothes optional, except for in the pool or hot
skulking off to swim in the lake (still in their suits). >>
Societal conditioning probably has a lot to do with it. One only has to
look at what passes for "shorts" or "swim suits" nowadays for boys and
men. All they are is long pants with the bottom half of the legs cut off
at or below the knee. One effect of this (other than making boys a lot
more uncomfortable than they need to be during hot weather, I'd imagine)
would be to subliminally teach a boy that he has to cover as much of his
body as possible at all times.
Girls, of course, are given just the opposite message.
==================================================
"The problem with a global village is all the global village idiots."
-Unknown
alev...@aol.com My home page:
Portland, Oregon USA http://members.aol.com/alevansjr/
=================================================
Joe Strahl
> Moah bettah u get some doctah to fill da puka in yoah head.
> your mind is malo.
>
> bill conduit
>
Now who could argue with that?:)
Griff
r...@cbebl2.cb.att.com (Robert Neinast) wrote:
>In article <31e964e2...@199.4.94.14>,
>Try the Sport Europa catalogue. They have some pretty nice cargo shorts
>(2 different styles, 2 different lengths, but both pretty short).
>They are also at http://www.SportEuropa.com
>Regards,
>Bob
I'll second that! I bought a pair of those cargo shorts 3 years ago.
Wore then everywhere (except nude beaches, etc.). They finally ripped
out where I carried my wallet this year. Best damned pair of shorts
I've ever owned. Lightwight, but durable enough.
Griff
Just Say NO
To Tan Lines
Robert Neinast
In article <31e964e2...@199.4.94.14>,
jont...@netwizards.net (Jon Tufts) says:
> On 14 Jul 1996 16:20:57 GMT, "David M. Spera" <sp...@telerama.lm.com>
> wrote:
> >Just last weekend I tried to buy some new shorts. I couldn't believe
> >how long they are now! They must be uncomfortable in hot weather. Maybe
> >I'll just have to cut off some old jeans (if the waist fits :).
> This silly trend the clothing manufacturers have taken toward making
> shorts knee length for men and boys has bugged me as well. I am in
> favor of being able to buy the shortest possible shorts that I can and
> have had to hunt through quite a few stores before finding anything
> that I like.
Try the Sport Europa catalogue. They have some pretty nice cargo shorts
(2 different styles, 2 different lengths, but both pretty short).
They are also at http://www.SportEuropa.com
Regards,
Bob
--
". . . and shun the frumious Bandersnatch."
Robert Neinast (nei...@lucent.com)
Lucent Technologies - Bell Labs (Columbus, OH)
Robert Neinast
In article <4sc37q$o...@nntpb.cb.lucent.com>,
r...@cbebl2.cb.att.com (Robert Neinast) says:
> Try the Sport Europa catalogue. They have some pretty nice cargo shorts
> (2 different styles, 2 different lengths, but both pretty short).
>
> They are also at http://www.SportEuropa.com
It has been pointed out to me (thanks!) that this is the wrong address.
That'll teach me to rely on my memory instead of looking it up in
my bookmarks. The correct address is
Sorry,
Al EvansJr
Now it appears that these shorts, besides looking stupid and being
uncomfortable as all get-out in warm weather, are dangerous as well.
From Tuesday's Oregonian newspaper account of the weekend drowning of a 17
year old boy in the Clackamas River:
"Based on statements from witnesses, authorities believe the boy's baggy
shorts may have filled with water, weighing him down, said Deputy Damon
Coats of the Clackamas County Sheriff's Department. Coats said divers
found the shorts around the boy's ankles."
==================================================
"The problem with a global village is all the global village idiots."
-Unknown
alev...@aol.com My home page:
Portland, Oregon USA http://members.aol.com/alevansjr/
==================================================
aha...@yahoo.de
> After chatting with other nudists, I am finding an experience I had in school was/is not widespread: nude swimming classes. During my junior and senior high school years in Dearborn, Michigan, in the late 1960 s and early 1970 s, our all male gym classes had swimming one week per month in our indoor pools. Except for the life saving course, the boys swam nude. Bathing suits were not an option until after the life saving course, but most of us continued to swim nude. The girls classes were not nude, but required tank suits. The only thing I have read about this tradition was in a novel, making a reference to northern European immigrants bringing this practice to the mid-west.Richard
ride...@gmail.com
> Adding more to this, during a past trip to Paradise lakes in Fla, we
> noticed that there were several teen girls sunbathing nude around the pool,
> while many teen boys simply walking around in shorts and shirts. Of maybe
> on, someone from Paradise management asked them to remove the suits or not
> use the pool (paradise is clothes optional, except for in the pool or hot
> tub where nude is the rule) the boys argued for several minutes before
> skulking off to swim in the lake (still in their suits).
>
> to the pool, the parents nude but the girl in a swim suit, when the
> Paradise staff asked her to remove the suit to swim she smiled and slipped
> out of it.
>
> semi-public nudisty than the young males do.
-- Buck Stark <https://www.dialup4less.com/~aloe/skinnydip>