Experiencing Nudism in Tiergarten of Berlin, Germany
qquito
I have heard about the liberal attitude of German people toward nudity
and that many places in Germany permit public nudity, but have not
expected that such a place would be right beside my hotel in Berlin.
I spent a week in Berlin in mid-September, 2009. One late afternoon on
my way to Staatsoper Under den Linden (Berlin State Opera), I was
first walking along the Hofjaegerallee that passes through the
Tiergarten, a sprawling park in the central area of the city covered
with green lawns, trees, and flower beds. Hofjaegerallee is a wide,
multi-lane avenue, with wide ways for pedestrians and cyclists on both
sides, and the Tiergarten lawns are well within the view of these
people and certainly of the people within the passing vehicles.
Naturally, I saw the sunbathers on the lawn, and it was not a big
surprise to me to notice that a number of them were in the nude.
It is still very warm under the sun in Berlin in September. So I found
a few free hours in the late afternoon the next day and went there
with a hotel bathing towel to enjoy the warmth of the sun. There were
quite a few people there. The ages were eclectic starting from 20s,
and there were apparently more men in the nude than women. Some were
reading while sunbathing, and a few of them were playing with their
dogs. Some were walking around on the lawn. The lawn was well
maintained and it was very comfortable to walk on barefoot.
There were of course clothed people also. In fact, many clothed people
were either having a walk in the park or passing by along the paths
nearby. The mixing of the clothed and unclothed was kind of surreal.
There is even facility for taking showers---also in the view of other
people, clothed or unclothed. And I took a shower before I got ready
to leave.
When in the US will people treat nudism in this rational way and will
there be conveniently accessible freilichtpark like this for
Freikoerperkultur?
--Roland
2009-09-29
FREECOSPIRIT
Many of us have asked similar questions. Most of the people in the
world do not live near to the sea so why should public clothing
optional places be restricted to beaches. Yes there are inland
beaches near some lakes and rivers. For sunbathing and other forms of
nude relaxation unless you are fortunate enough to have a private
garden or a nearby club your options are very limited. Many people in
the UK and probably elsewhere in the world have asked for areas to be
designated in some parks where nudity is permitted.
When suggestions for official CO places are made to central and local
authorities supported often by lengthy petitions they are either
ignored or rejected through perceived prejudice. Certainly in the UK
there are no spaces in any parks for nude recreation and only around
10 officially designated beaches. Of course there are many beaches
where nudity takes place and people do go nude in land in quieter
spots but not without risk.
Few of us want unrestricted rights to total body freedom but it would
be nice to have near to where you live secluded spots where you know
can go clothes free with official blessing. We are not asking for
exclusive areas just areas where we can go nude if we want to,
textiles would not be excluded and as those areas would relatively few
so bigots could easily avoid them.
In Germany they have many such areas or rather a more open society so
why not everywhere else.
Freecospirit
newsgroups
enable a person to lie nude in a public park. Someone will be offended.
Americans take offense to just about anything a free person might want to do
in public. In defense, many Americans realize their neighbors are
un-civilized, rude, self-centered, self-absorbed, and because of this
reality of American life, the trend is to restrict everyone from doing just
about everything.
Bill S in AZ
"qquito" <qqu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6f3fe752-88ee-4662...@a7g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
Neosapienis
just become a fascist nation and a pale shadow of the principles it was
founded on.
--
Best wishes,
Dario Western
"In order to be what you want to be you've got to learn to be everything
you're not" - Alicia Moore (aka P!nk)
(07) 3267-6789
(0437) 428-859
http://www.myspace.com/fatpizzaman
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"newsgroups" <123...@spam.net> wrote in message
news:i5vwm.236953$0e4.1...@newsfe19.iad...
Zee
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bill...i notice the guy did not tell us if there were kids
around....were they nude....how many...age and gender....then we can
fine tune his portrayal of berlin public nudity....jz
Terry J. Wood
news:ggwwm.44046$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
> A far cry from the days of "Give me liberty or give me death". America
> has just become a fascist nation and a pale shadow of the principles it
> was founded on.
Terry J. Wood
news:ggwwm.44046$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
> A far cry from the days of "Give me liberty or give me death". America
> has just become a fascist nation and a pale shadow of the principles it
> was founded on.
qquito
> On Sep 29, 4:35 pm, "newsgroups" <123...@spam.net> wrote:
>
> > The short answer to your question is never. American culture will never
> > enable a person to lie nude in a public park. Someone will be offended.
> > Americans take offense to just about anything a free person might want to do
> > in public. In defense, many Americans realize their neighbors are
> > un-civilized, rude, self-centered, self-absorbed, and because of this
> > reality of American life, the trend is to restrict everyone from doing just
> > about everything.
> > Bill S in AZ
>
> Bill...i notice the guy did not tell us if there were kids
> around....were they nude....how many...age and gender....then we can
> fine tune his portrayal of berlin public nudity....jz
On my visit, I did not see any children in the nude, but I did see
clothed children with their parents passing by the area. To my best
knowledge, CO beaches or other CO recreational areas are NOT adult-
only places, but for people of all ages. The two following Internet
pictures may explain it: 1.) An FKK (CO) beach in Duesseldorf:
http://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-tw/File:FKK-Gelande_Sudstrand_Strandimpressionen_%282200637243%29.jpg
2.) A CO beach at Landkreis Oberspreewald-Lausitz, Brandenburg,
Germany:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-1983-0815-302,_FKK-Str%C3%A4nde_des_Senftenberger_Erholungsgebietes.jpg
Zee
> On Sep 29, 10:02 pm, Zee <jonZ...@webtv.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 29, 4:35 pm, "newsgroups" <123...@spam.net> wrote:
>
> > > The short answer to your question is never. American culture will never
> > > enable a person to lie nude in a public park. Someone will be offended.
> > > Americans take offense to just about anything a free person might want to do
> > > in public. In defense, many Americans realize their neighbors are
> > > un-civilized, rude, self-centered, self-absorbed, and because of this
> > > reality of American life, the trend is to restrict everyone from doing just
> > > about everything.
> > > Bill S in AZ
> > ......
>
> > Bill...i notice the guy did not tell us if there were kids
> > around....were they nude....how many...age and gender....then we can
> > fine tune his portrayal of berlin public nudity....jz
>
> On my visit, I did not see any children in the nude, but I did see
> clothed children with their parents passing by the area. To my best
> knowledge, CO beaches or other CO recreational areas are NOT adult-
> only places, but for people of all ages. The two following Internet
>
> 2.) A CO beach at Landkreis Oberspreewald-Lausitz, Brandenburg,
i think in comparison it is equal to the usa.....you did not state if
the kids seemed to not be escourted or loitering or what ever...but
our haul over which would be like down town does not have children in
attendance although there is not sign saying adults only.....and of
course there is not walk way in the nude area......so it does seem
that the world of parents are fully aware of the liability of allowing
their children in these nude areas...the european nude beaches
probably have more children in attendance than in the usa as most nude
things in public have no chidlren participating.....regards...jz
qquito
I was at Haulover Beach one Friday afternoon in May, 2008 for a couple
of hours, and I saw a couple of children in the nude swimming with
their parents. Here are a few things I know about:
1.) Young children up to early teens are nearly always accompanied by
their parents or guardians even in clothed environments. This has
little to do with nudism.
2.) Most crimes committed against minors take place in clothed
environments, and quite a few of them even happen in sacred places
like church where people are always very well clothed.
3.) Among the Western countries, the US is the most prudish one over-
preoccupied with hiding human bodies from children and from each
other, yet the US has, God forbid, the highest rate of teen
pregnancies. [Reference: Paul, G.S., 2005. Cross-National Correlations
of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and
Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies. Journal of Religion &
Society, Vol.(7).]
Zee
>
> - Show quoted text -
so you are from the usa huh......for the last couple of years...fla
tom has reported no children at haulover but yet you saw a
couple...HIGHLY UNUSUAL....two kids among thousands of adults is sure
not many.....and then you say crimes are committed against clothed
children.....when did we start talkin about CRIME.....it seems you are
a sock puppet trying to sell something in rec nude that we dont
need.....and you also mention crimes against children in
churches......whew that is a stretch.....now we are talkin about
crimes in the church house....well that is all g bushes
fault ....right.....are you stuffed tigers sock puppet....thats what i
thought......jz
qquito
> On Sep 30, 1:01 am, qquito <qqu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> so you are from the usa huh......for the last couple of years...fla
> tom has reported no children at haulover but yet you saw a
> couple...HIGHLY UNUSUAL....two kids among thousands of adults is sure
> not many.....and then you say crimes are committed against clothed
> children.....when did we start talkin about CRIME.....it seems you are
> a sock puppet trying to sell something in rec nude that we dont
> need.....and you also mention crimes against children in
> churches......whew that is a stretch.....now we are talkin about
> crimes in the church house....well that is all g bushes
> fault ....right.....are you stuffed tigers sock puppet....thats what i
> thought......jz
I am not against you over anything but merely speaking along the line
over a few issues people are often concerned with when discussing
naturism. --Roland
stinso...@hotmail.com
<dariow...@nospambigpond.com> wrote:
>A far cry from the days of "Give me liberty or give me death". America has
>just become a fascist nation and a pale shadow of the principles it was
>founded on.
I'd advise you to brush up on your political terms. Fascist does not
apply.
-T.
Neosapienis
public nudity) is a fascist in my book.
--
Best wishes,
Dario Western
"In order to be what you want to be you've got to learn to be everything
you're not" - Alicia Moore (aka P!nk)
(07) 3267-6789
(0437) 428-859
http://www.myspace.com/fatpizzaman
http://dariowestern.bebo.com
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http://www.wayn.com/dario_western
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http://dariowestern.hi5.com/
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<stinso...@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message
news:u858c5l8taqc4fl55...@4ax.com...
Zee
wrote:
> Anybody who opposes personal freedom of speech and expression (including
> public nudity) is a fascist in my book.
>
> --
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dario Western
>
> "In order to be what you want to be you've got to learn to be everything
> you're not" - Alicia Moore (aka P!nk)
> (07) 3267-6789
> (0437) 428-859
>
> http://www.myspace.com/fatpizzamanhttp://dariowestern.bebo.comhttp://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=553251115http://www.youtube.com/user/fatpizzamanhttp://www.wayn.com/dario_westernhttp://www.friendster.com/dariowesternhttp://www.tagged.comhttp://dariowestern.hi5.com/http://twitter.com/Dario_Western
>
> news:u858c5l8taqc4fl55...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:56:12 GMT, "Neosapienis"
> > <dariowest...@nospambigpond.com> wrote:
>
> >>A far cry from the days of "Give me liberty or give me death". America
> >>has
> >>just become a fascist nation and a pale shadow of the principles it was
> >>founded on.
>
> > I'd advise you to brush up on your political terms. Fascist does not
> > apply.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
i agree with you that obama is more fascist than mussollini at least
in his dreams......but for you to go against the 99 on the public
nudity acceptance also is fascist in essense....when you address a
poster and that poster responds to you and then you shy away from
addressing what he said in his post ....ie....what i said was a great
new format for rec nude ....tells me you are trying to develop your
character but just cant get there yet.....jz
David Looser
news:urXwm.44413$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Anybody who opposes personal freedom of speech and expression (including
> public nudity) is a fascist in my book.
>
Then in "your book" virtually the entire human race (including yourself of
course) are "fascists". Doesn't make it a very useful term then does it?.
David.
stinso...@hotmail.com
<dariow...@nospambigpond.com> wrote:
>Anybody who opposes personal freedom of speech and expression (including
>public nudity) is a fascist in my book.
They can be a cow in your book as well. But it don't mean you're using
the word correctly.
-T.
Neosapienis
British comedy show "The Young Ones" in the 80's to refer to anybody who was
an authoritarian (e.g. Social Security officers, police officers, TV
detectors).
The word 'sick' has also changed its meaning from being in ill-health, to
meaning 'cool' or 'awesome' with today's kids.
Similarly the word 'gay' meant 'bright', 'strident' and 'happy' until the
early 1970's when the homosexual movement hijacked the term (referring to a
same sex dance known as the 'Gay Gordons'), but since the late 90's it has
also taken to mean 'stupid', 'useless' or 'idiotic'.
--
Best wishes,
Dario Western
"In order to be what you want to be you've got to learn to be everything
you're not" - Alicia Moore (aka P!nk)
(07) 3267-6789
(0437) 428-859
http://www.myspace.com/fatpizzaman
http://dariowestern.bebo.com
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=553251115
http://www.youtube.com/user/fatpizzaman
http://www.wayn.com/dario_western
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http://www.tagged.com
http://dariowestern.hi5.com/
http://twitter.com/Dario_Western
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<stinso...@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message
news:8snac5t65hd77blft...@4ax.com...
David Looser
> Just like any other word today. I first heard the word 'fascist' on the
> British comedy show "The Young Ones" in the 80's to refer to anybody who
> was an authoritarian (e.g. Social Security officers, police officers, TV
> detectors).
>
> The word 'sick' has also changed its meaning from being in ill-health, to
> meaning 'cool' or 'awesome' with today's kids.
>
> Similarly the word 'gay' meant 'bright', 'strident' and 'happy' until the
> early 1970's when the homosexual movement hijacked the term (referring to
> a same sex dance known as the 'Gay Gordons'), but since the late 90's it
> has also taken to mean 'stupid', 'useless' or 'idiotic'.
>
I think you have to distinguish between the long-term evolution of the
language, and short-term slang usage. "Sick" in the meaning you give is such
a short term use, whilst "gay" has been used by the homosexual community for
*much* longer than you realise. The more recent meanings you give are, of
course, a calculated insult to that community.
As for "fascist" yes it is now used as an insult to mean "authoritarian",
the political movement known as fascism was highly authoritarian. But that's
not how *you* were using it.
You said:
<quote>
Anybody who opposes personal freedom of speech and expression (including
public nudity) is a fascist in my book.
<unquote>
In other words anyone who isn't a libertarian is a "fascist" in your book.
You have demonstrated many times that you have views on sex offenders for
example that are anything but libertarian. So do you accept that you are a
fascist?
ISTM that you are distinguishing between different forms of freedom. Anyone
who opposes those that you espouse, public nudity in particular, you call a
"fascist". Whilst you claim the right to oppose forms of freedom of
expression that you find abhorrent.
You can't have it both ways.
David.
Jenny6833A
wrote:
> "Neosapienis" <dariowest...@nospambigpond.com> wrote in message
David, had those last two paragraphs been written generally, instead
of being addressed to a specific individual, I'd nominate them for the
RNQOTM award, even though we don't have one.
Then, upon reflection, I'd vote against it, because we all _do_ try to
have it both ways. Even you, sometimes, and I reluctantly concede,
even me. Well, perhaps even me.
Nevertheless, a very good post.
:-)
Jenny
Zee
>
> - Show quoted text -
wtf....Dario....i think they are gonna cut you out of their will....jz
Simon
> Similarly the word 'gay' meant 'bright', 'strident' and 'happy' until the
> early 1970's when the homosexual movement hijacked the term (referring to a
> same sex dance known as the 'Gay Gordons'), but since the late 90's it has
> also taken to mean 'stupid', 'useless' or 'idiotic'.
homosexuals to denote themselves as 'Good As You' lead to the acronym
GAY on posters and the rest is history.
Simon.
David Looser
news:4ac691ce$0$2482$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
> Interesting. I had seen it consistently reported that the efforts of
> homosexuals to denote themselves as 'Good As You' lead to the acronym GAY
> on posters and the rest is history.
>
The fact that something is "consistently reported" doesn't make it true. And
this is a case in point. The homosexual community have been using the word
"gay" from at least as long ago as the 1920s, and there is absolutely no
evidence that it was ever an acronym.
David.
TheWhiteCockatoo
> "Simon" <Not_Heysfo...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
I guess it's a little like the word "Naturist" David.
Been around a lot longer, and with a much different meaning, than some
would like to believe ;)
Tony
Neosapienis
from them anyway. ;-)
--
Best wishes,
Dario Western
"In order to be what you want to be you've got to learn to be everything
you're not" - Alicia Moore (aka P!nk)
(07) 3267-6789
(0437) 428-859
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"Zee" <jon...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9a9f5e45-1f1a-4da6...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
vg4cysss7001
Neosapienis <dariow...@nospambigpond.com> writes
>Just like any other word today. I first heard the word 'fascist' on
>the British comedy show "The Young Ones" in the 80's to refer to
>anybody who was an authoritarian (e.g. Social Security officers, police
>officers, TV detectors).
It is kind of you to acknowledge your neophyte status.
Perhaps when you have grown up you will relinquish your childish habit
of top-posting?
--
Misha
Free on-line, off-site backups?
<https://mozy.com/?ref=UK45Y5>
vg4cysss7001
Neosapienis <dariow...@nospambigpond.com> writes
>Hahahahhaha, good one jZ. I'm coping just fine without any financial aid
>from them anyway. ;-)
>
WTF are you referring to?
Zee
> In article <hMGxm.44999$ze1.38...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> Neosapienis <dariowest...@nospambigpond.com> writes
>
> >Hahahahhaha, good one jZ. I'm coping just fine without any financial aid
> >from them anyway. ;-)
>
> WTF are you referring to?
> --
> Misha
> Free on-line, off-site backups?
> <https://mozy.com/?ref=UK45Y5>
Dario.....in determining the retardiness of posters.....notice the
chronic killfilers have continued their life long addiction to their
beloved CULT and it is plain to see they miss the oposing viewpoints
and have to stop rec nude to ask questions that intelligent non
killfiler folks possess continuously.....you have all the good
qualities with no need to accomodate their ignorance.....jz
Neosapienis
me to the police over it? :p
--
Best wishes,
Dario Western
"In order to be what you want to be you've got to learn to be everything
you're not" - Alicia Moore (aka P!nk)
(07) 3267-6789
(0437) 428-859
http://www.myspace.com/fatpizzaman
http://dariowestern.bebo.com
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"vg4cysss7001" <127@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:0xenZqdf...@spam.filter...
Neosapienis
"Top-posting seems to be the most common style in business e-mail
correspondence.[3]
Top-posting is a natural consequence of the behavior of the "reply" function
in many current e-mail readers, such as Microsoft Outlook, Mozilla
Thunderbird, Gmail, and others. By default, these programs insert into the
reply message a copy of the original message (without headers and often
without any extra indentation or quotation markers), and position the
editing cursor above it. Moreover, a bug present on most flavours of
Microsoft Outlook caused the quotation markers to be lost when replying in
plain text to a message that was originally sent in HTML/RTF. In addition,
users of mobile devices, like BlackBerries, are encouraged to use
top-posting, because the devices only download the beginning of a message
for viewing. The rest of the message is only retrieved when needed, which
takes additional download time. Putting the relevant content at the
beginning of the message requires less bandwidth, less time, and less
scrolling for the Blackberry user.[4][5][6] For these and possibly other
reasons, many users seem to accept top-posting as the "standard" reply
style.
Partially because of Microsoft's influence, top-posting is very common on
mailing lists and in personal e-mail.[7][8][9][10]
Objections to top-posting on newsgroups, as a rule, seem to come from
persons who first went online in the earlier days of Usenet, and in
communities that date to Usenet's early days. Until the mid-90s, top-posting
was unknown and interleaved posting an obvious standard that all
net.newcomers had to learn. Among the most vehement communities are those in
the Usenet comp.lang hierarchy, especially comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c++.
Top-posting is more tolerated on the alt hierarchy. Newer online
participants, especially those with limited experience of Usenet, tend to be
less sensitive to arguments about posting style.
Top-posting has always been the standard format for forwarding a message to
a third party; in which case the comments at the top (if any) are a "cover
note" for the recipient.
The classical reverse chronological post ordering used in most weblogs is
essentially top posting.
[edit] Bottom-posting
In the "bottom-posting" style, the reply is appended to a full or partial
copy of the original message. The name bottom-posting is sometimes used for
inline-style replies, and indeed the two formats are the same when only one
point is being replied to."
"Neosapienis" <dariow...@nospambigpond.com> wrote in message
news:eiaym.45360$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
The Doctor
Conclusion, top-posting is for dinosaurs.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Never Satan President Republic!
For the latest World News go to http://www.cuttingedge.org/
David Looser
> According to wikipedia's article on posting styles:
>
> "Top-posting seems to be the most common style in business e-mail
> correspondence.[3]
>
Yes, for business (or indeed private) e-mails where there are two parties
having a conversation top-posting is fine. For Usenet however, where the
reader will not know which previous post in a thread the new post is a reply
to, and likely is not intimately familiar with each and every post in that
thread, top-posting is simply arrogant laziness. It says "I can't be
bothered to do this properly, you (the reader) will have to make the effort
to scroll down to the bottom of the post to find out what the context of my
post is" Add to that the fact that few top-posters can be bothered to snip
the accumulated garbage from a long thread adds to the problem.
David.
TheWhiteCockatoo
top-posting is simply arrogant laziness. It says "I can't be
> bothered to do this properly, you (the reader) will have to make the effort
> to scroll down to the bottom of the post to find out what the context of my
> post is"
>
> David.
Perfectly said David,
And the problem is only exacerbated when the top posters uninteresting
signature is longer than their reply itself ;)
Tony
The Doctor
Top-Posting is rude and impolite in any media.
Imagine reading a top-posted newspaper.
Maybe possible if Bill Gates is editor.
D. Kirkpatrick
"Neosapienis" <dariow...@nospambigpond.com> wrote:
> Top-posting is a natural consequence of the behavior of the "reply" function
> in many current e-mail readers, such as Microsoft Outlook, Mozilla
> Thunderbird, Gmail, and others. By default, these programs insert into the
> reply message a copy of the original message (without headers and often
> without any extra indentation or quotation markers)
MS Outlook and Outlook Express force this on people, at least in newer
versions. There is a registry hack to *fix* this anomaly so you don't
have to do a lot of cut and paste.
Many other clients have an option in the settings area to choose
whether to insert the reply cursor above or below the quotes text.
DMK
vg4cysss7001
Neosapienis <dariow...@nospambigpond.com> writes
>According to wikipedia's article on posting styles:
>
>"Top-posting seems to be the most common style in business e-mail
>correspondence.[3]
>
Usenet is not business e-mail.
>Top-posting is a natural consequence of the behavior of the "reply" function
>in many current e-mail readers, such as Microsoft Outlook, Mozilla
>Thunderbird, Gmail, and others. By default, these programs insert into the
>reply message a copy of the original message (without headers and often
>without any extra indentation or quotation markers), and position the
>editing cursor above it.
N. B. _editing_ cursor, _not_ insertion point.
If you had the courtesy to edit what you reply to,
you would be moving the cursor (or at least your attention)
down the quoted text anyway.
>Moreover, a bug present on most flavours of
>Microsoft Outlook caused the quotation markers to be lost when replying in
>plain text to a message that was originally sent in HTML/RTF.
They also appear not to adjust quote marks when text is split
to allow insertion, hence Quote-fix.
> In addition,
>users of mobile devices, like BlackBerries, are encouraged to use
>top-posting, because the devices only download the beginning of a message
>for viewing.
Which is where top-posters would have put their spew.
> The rest of the message is only retrieved when needed,
Such as when multiple points are being responded to?
>which
>takes additional download time. Putting the relevant content at the
>beginning of the message requires less bandwidth, less time, and less
>scrolling for the Blackberry user.[4][5][6]
Surely the quoted (parts of) previous posting(s) is/are
relevant?
>For these and possibly other
>reasons, many users seem to accept top-posting as the "standard" reply
>style.
>
>Partially because of Microsoft's influence, top-posting is very common on
>mailing lists and in personal e-mail.[7][8][9][10]
>
Usenet is not mailing lists or personal e-mail.
[snip]
>
>Top-posting has always been the standard format for forwarding a message to
>a third party; in which case the comments at the top (if any) are a "cover
>note" for the recipient.
Quite reasonable.
The final recipient may need to know why a message, which is not
necessarily an interaction or "conversation", is being
forwarded.
>
>The classical reverse chronological post ordering used in most weblogs is
>essentially top posting.
>
Similarly, I may to choose to sequence my in-boxes as newest
first, since older e-mails may be superseded.
I use web-sites similar to weblogs and find that, even with
quoting, if I reply to a message other than the latest few,
it really breaks continuity.
>[edit] Bottom-posting
>In the "bottom-posting" style, the reply is appended to a full or partial
>copy of the original message. The name bottom-posting is sometimes used for
>inline-style replies, and indeed the two formats are the same when only one
>point is being replied to."
In this case, several points are being replied to.
Had I top-posted all my comments, would you have understood what
each one referred to?
>
>
>"Neosapienis" <dariow...@nospambigpond.com> wrote in message
>news:eiaym.45360$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> If I want to top post, that's my business. What are you going to do,
>> report me to the police over it? :p
No, just regard you with contempt.
>>
>> --
N. B. Your software does not honour .sig separators either :-(
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Dario Western
[snip]
... and your .sig is bigger than the accepted convention :-(
Terry J. Wood
"David Looser" <david....@btinternet.com> wrote in
news:7itkqmF...@mid.individual.net:
> "Neosapienis" <dariow...@nospambigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:XAaym.45365$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> According to wikipedia's article on posting styles:
>> "Top-posting seems to be the most common style in business e-mail
>> correspondence.[3]
> Yes, for business (or indeed private) e-mails where there are two
> parties having a conversation top-posting is fine. For Usenet however,
> where the reader will not know which previous post in a thread the new
> post is a reply to, and likely is not intimately familiar with each and
> every post in that thread, top-posting is simply arrogant laziness.
WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?
Terry "I double post" Wood
The Doctor
Still business e-mail should be scrutinised as much as a post!
vg4cysss7001
<doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> writes
>Still business e-mail should be scrutinised as much as a post!
Sure and what is easier to scrutinise when several,
disparate points are being addressed?
Richard C.
It makes much more sense than having to scroll through all the previous crap
to read a new post.
If you want to reference a top quote, it is all there below!
=================================
"vg4cysss7001" <127@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:0xenZqdf...@spam.filter...
: In article <%1hxm.44693$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
Richard C.
Thanks.
=======================
"Neosapienis" <dariow...@nospambigpond.com> wrote in message
news:XAaym.45365$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
: According to wikipedia's article on posting styles:
: >
: >
:
:
Marc
> Excellent post!
>
What was?
Lane
_Odnb4SPvKaNlbXn...@bt.com:
> Richard C. wrote:
>> Excellent post!
>>
>
> What was?
>
Presumably, he was referring to the article that Dario plagiarized from
Wikipedia.
--
Lane
Marc
David Looser
news:HBNym.1149$4Y3...@newsfe25.ams2...
> Someday all intelligent people will top post.
>
> It makes much more sense than having to scroll through all the previous
> crap
> to read a new post.
If people had the good manners to snip "all the previous crap" that wouldn't
be an issue!
Top posting is lazy and selfish. Failing to correctly snip "all the previous
crap" is lazy and selfish.
David.
Steve Doerr
> References:
<6f3fe752-88ee-4662...@a7g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
<i5vwm.236953$0e4.1...@newsfe19.iad>
<ggwwm.44046$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
<u858c5l8taqc4fl55...@4ax.com>
<urXwm.44413$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
<8snac5t65hd77blft...@4ax.com>
<%1hxm.44693$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
<0xenZqdf...@spam.filter>
<eiaym.45360$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
<XAaym.45365$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
<zCNym.1150$4Y3...@newsfe25.ams2>
> Richard C. wrote:
> > Excellent post!
> What was?
<XAaym.45365$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, presumably.
vg4cysss7001
<post...@spamcop.net> writes
>Excellent post!
Which you could not be bothered to edit :-(
Do you think that _everyone_ has uncapped broadband?
>
>Thanks.
... for nothing.
Lane
> In article <zCNym.1150$4Y3...@newsfe25.ams2>, Richard C.
> <post...@spamcop.net> writes
>>Excellent post!
>
> Which you could not be bothered to edit :-(
> Do you think that _everyone_ has uncapped broadband?
>
What? Your broadband is capped in the kilobytes range?
Sheesh.
--
Lane
AndyC
"Marc" <initial...@btintenret.com> wrote in message
news:8_Odnb4SPvKaNlbX...@bt.com...
> Richard C. wrote:
>> Excellent post!
>>
>
> What was?
I think that was a "whoosh"
Oh, the irony...
vg4cysss7001
<REVERSEdo...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>Marc wrote:
>
>> References:
><6f3fe752-88ee-4662...@a7g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
><i5vwm.236953$0e4.1...@newsfe19.iad> <ggwwm.44046$ze1.11666@news-
>server.bigpond.net.au> <u858c5l8taqc4fl55...@4ax.com>
><urXwm.44413$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <8snac5t65hd77blft8n
>5pb9jti...@4ax.com> <%1hxm.44693$ze1.35678@news-
>server.bigpond.net.au> <0xenZqdf...@spam.filter>
><eiaym.45360$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
><XAaym.45365$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au> <zCNym.1150$4Y3.605@
>newsfe25.ams2>
>
>> Richard C. wrote:
>> > Excellent post!
>
>> What was?
>
><XAaym.45365$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, presumably.
Smart-arse :-)
It may have expired, either locally, or on the server.
Steve Doerr
> It may have expired, either locally, or on the server.
But not on Google (unless X-No-Archive is set, I suppose).
--
Steve
vg4cysss7001
<absolu...@yahoo.com> writes
minute :-(
Lane
> In article <Xns9C9CD5DA3EEa...@188.40.43.213>, Lane
> <absolu...@yahoo.com> writes
>>vg4cysss7001 <127@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in
>>news:FxMr5SPU...@spam.filter:
>>
>>> In article <zCNym.1150$4Y3...@newsfe25.ams2>, Richard C.
>>> <post...@spamcop.net> writes
>>>>Excellent post!
>>>
>>> Which you could not be bothered to edit :-(
>>> Do you think that _everyone_ has uncapped broadband?
>>>
>>
>>What? Your broadband is capped in the kilobytes range?
>>
>>Sheesh.
>>
>>
>>
> Occasionally I have no alternative to 9600 baud dial-up at 25 pence
> per minute :-(
Interesting, though I wouldn't call that broadband, and I gotta tell ya,
if that were ever the case for me, I wouldn't be wasting the bandwidth
on Usenet.
--
Lane
Simon
> Top posting is lazy and selfish. Failing to correctly snip "all the previous
> crap" is lazy and selfish.
> David.
I have to say that, you are fighting a lost battle.
In email, I top post and in Usenet, I bottom post.
I really can't see the problem. OK, I know that there are those who do
not know the differance but there is no cure and, as Usenet fades
slowly, then top posting will continue to dominate.
Simon (UK)
vg4cysss7001
>news:Xmsf8ykT...@spam.filter:
>> Occasionally I have no alternative to 9600 baud dial-up at 25 pence
>> per minute :-(
>
>Interesting, though I wouldn't call that broadband, and I gotta tell ya,
>if that were ever the case for me, I wouldn't be wasting the bandwidth
>on Usenet.
>
>
>
I don't recall that I ever called it broadband.
I asked if there was an assumption that everyone had uncapped broadband.
In such circumstances text-only e-mail and Usenet is precisely what I
want.
E-mail would be subjected to a cursory header inspection and newsgroups
that are subject to garbage are "browse" (header only, initially).
Terry J. Wood
> It makes much more sense than having to scroll through all the previous
> crap to read a new post.
Or you could just edit out the crap instead of quoting it.
Stuffed Tiger
<Jenny...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Oct 2, 12:19?am, "David Looser" <david.loo...@btinternet.com>
>wrote:
>> <quote>
>> Anybody who opposes personal freedom of speech and expression (including
>> public nudity) is a fascist in my book.
>> <unquote>
>> In other words anyone who isn't a libertarian is a "fascist" in your book.
>> You have demonstrated many times that you have views on sex offenders for
>> example that are anything but libertarian. So do you accept that you are a
>> fascist?
>>
>> ISTM that you are distinguishing between different forms of freedom. Anyone
>> who opposes those that you espouse, public nudity in particular, you call a
>> "fascist". Whilst you claim the right to oppose forms of freedom of
>> expression that you find abhorrent.
>>
>> You can't have it both ways.
>>
>> David.
>
>David, had those last two paragraphs been written generally, instead
>of being addressed to a specific individual, I'd nominate them for the
>RNQOTM award, even though we don't have one.
>
>Then, upon reflection, I'd vote against it, because we all _do_ try to
>have it both ways. Even you, sometimes, and I reluctantly concede,
>even me. Well, perhaps even me.
>
>Nevertheless, a very good post.
>
>:-)
>
>Jenny
Nice post, David. I tried to write back simply that I agreed with
Jenny but then, upon reflection, I did but I didn't IYKWIM. :-)
Stuffed Tiger
<in...@thewhitecockatoo.com> wrote:
>On Oct 3, 5:33�pm, "David Looser" <david.loo...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> "Simon" <Not_Heysfo...@Yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4ac691ce$0$2482$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>>
>> > Interesting. I had seen it consistently reported that the efforts of
>> > homosexuals to denote themselves as 'Good As You' lead to the acronym GAY
>> > on posters and the rest is history.
>>
>> The fact that something is "consistently reported" doesn't make it true. And
>> this is a case in point. The homosexual community have been using the word
>> "gay" from at least as long ago as the 1920s, and there is absolutely no
>> evidence that it was ever an acronym.
>>
>> David.
>
>I guess it's a little like the word "Naturist" David.
>
>Been around a lot longer, and with a much different meaning, than some
>would like to believe ;)
>
>Tony
It seems the word NUDE is also from an acronym widely used in 2020:
Normal
Universal
Delightful
Experience
Stuffed Tiger
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 08:36:28 -0500, "Terry J. Wood"
<Terry...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?
Because posting just under the statement being replied to is helpful.
...
>WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?
Because deleting extraneous material can also be helpful.
...
>
>Terry "I double post" Wood
LOL
Richard C.
news:Xns9C9F2D8...@216.168.3.30...
: "Richard C." <post...@spamcop.net> wrote in
I often do. MAny others do not.
qquito
On Sep 29, 1:14 am, qquito <qqu...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Experiencing Nudism in Tiergarten of Berlin, Germany
Stuffed Tiger
Thank you, Richard. It does help.