Sunny Rest Lodge
NYC couple
at the end of the month and would love to have some feedback about the
place. Is it like paradise lakes in fla?. That and Cypress cove in FL
are our only experiece in CO resorts. THank you in advance
Joe Collazo
Cozmo
Joe,
I was at Sunny Rest one time. This camp should not go under the guise
of nudist camp. The camp is way overpriced and the facilities are dirty.
Moreover, the atmoshpere ticked me off. I have been a nudist for quite a
while, and I would hate to see the impression this camp would make on a new
couple or family. Don't get me wrong, if you are into this sort of thing,
that's fine, just don't disguise an open swingers weekend retreat as a
credible nudist camp. I consider my wife and I as an attractive couple, and
the lizards would not leave us alone the weekend we visited. I go to a
nudist camp to relax and escape undue pressure of our textile society. The
entire weekend we were at Sunny Rest we were hounded by singles and couples
that may have thought us an easy mark. It ticked me off. Again, I am not
a prude, nor do I lead a sheltered life, however, I was very irritated at
the arrongance, ignorance, and openly lewd conduct we observed at this
camp. From what I understand, the AANR has *AGAIN* revoked it's ESA charter
sometime ago and hopefully will not renew it. If this is your thing, I
hope you enjoy. The camp, nor the people, do not meet my standards.
Natch,
Coz & Hoot (Jim & Pat)
Richard Kenner
>Has anyone out there been to sunny rest lodge in PA? We are going there
>at the end of the month and would love to have some feedback about the
>place. Is it like paradise lakes in fla?. That and Cypress cove in FL
>are our only experiece in CO resorts. THank you in advance
No, it's very different; much smaller and more camping-oriented,
though there are some cabins. On the scale of conservative (Cypress
Cove) vs liberal (Paradise Lakes) resorts, it's furtrher liberal than
Paradise Lakes and has a much stronger reputation of being a place
for swingers (it has been evicted from AANR for that reason).
rere
What do you mean by LIBERAL, Richard? I went there and the owners sure
didn't seem liberal to me. I don't know for sure, but I'll bet they voted
for George Bush.
re re
so much slime, so little time.
--
holofernes
Yes. Great place. Go! Enjoy! You will get out of it what you put in to
it. Ask for the motel accomodation. Great pool. Nothing at all like
those other places you mentioned.
rere
This article was first printed in the ICONoclast in Spring of 1990.
After speaking with Nina on the phone she has assured me
that it was her understanding that NOPE controls the copyright for her
article, and she requests that I post it on the internet. She wants to
share the article with rec.nude readers and is interested in your
feedback. If you care to write her via my p.o. box I will pass the
letters on to her. nikki
The Shame of Being Naked:
A Visit to a Nudist Camp
by Nina Silver
Sunny Rest Lodge in the Poconos is well known among nudists. I was
invited there for a weekend by a male acquaintance, a member of Sunny
Rest who took advantage of the management's offer to bring as many women
as he wanted for free. The owners, responding to the disproportionately
large number of men to women, are trying to attract more single women to
the club.
The evening I arrived, I sat in the recreation room talking with a man in
a body suit who was a writer. After a while, he pulled out his penis and
showed me the nine cock rings on it. I asked him why he needed to exhibit
himself. Quite a paradox at a nudist camp: obviously, one needs to try
very hard to do that there. He told me his exhibitionism afforded him an
outlet which, if he did not have it, might make him even possibly
dangerous as he acted out his need to be noticed in the outside world.
While we were talking, disco dancing was taking place in the adjacent
room. The disco is the only evening activity. The owners told me later
that they had to close the clubs whirlpool between two and six o'clock
am because people had been using the room to have sex.
The following day I was enjoying the heated pool when a man spoke into a
microphone explaining that Sunny Rest was videotaping its yearly lingerie
fashion show by the pool, and anyone who didn't want to be filmed as the
models strolled past was advised to leave the area. I had mixed feelings
both about being there at all and having my image taken as a bystander,
but felt that as a writer it would be valuable for me to stay and observe
from my well-placed seat.
The models were primarily customers of the resort. All of the women came
out in skimpy lingerie, some with garters and cut-off elbow-length gloves.
Most wore panties that often just covered the vulva with a single strap
running between the buttocks to hold the cloth in place. The women also
wore high heels, strutting around the perimeter of the pool in time to
the emcees comments.
"There's Cathy, modeling a black teddy with removable feathers. Seven or
eight guys ought to be able to take care of her." The nudists applauded
as Cathy came out from the door of the dining room adjacent to one side
of the pool, which served as a stage.
"Theresa Pat in black lace and pink flowers. Doesn't she look beautiful?
And a beautiful smile to match, with flashing eyes. That's the way you
should always wrap a package."
The door opened again. "Heroes Sandy in a red lace teddy, pearls and
matching shoes. Shell pass by your place at night and make sure you're
satisfied."
"Back row, back row!" After almost each presentation, the people seated
behind me cajoled the models to come to their area. The lingeried women
would sashay toward them, eyeing their attentive audience, then lean down
and blow kisses or turn around and stick out their rear ends. I looked
closer at the people directly behind me in the back row. The two women
had trimmed their pubic hair into mohawks. The man with them had totally
shaved his.
"I need an Amy," the emcee was saying, referring to a model who had
just emerged from the dining room. "Daun't any of you guys need an Amy?
We
all need an Amy. Here comes Amy in tassels. Amy, you're lookin' good....
Look at that sliding pond. Its getting hard."
There must have been about two hundred people around and in the pool,
watching the fashion show. Now some men emerged.
"There's John, wearing a G-string that's a cockatoo. John didn't want me
to reveal this, but he'll be single for the next two weeks and he said
he'd leave the key to his trailer under the mat."
The male model's G-strings were designed as brightly colored animal
heads that covered the penis. The men wore matching animal head hats.
John, in an elephant motif, jumped in sneakered feet around the pool,
poking various people with the elephants trunk on his hat. None of the
women had pranced like that. They all wore spiked heels and had to walk
slowly as they were being watched.
"Does anybody have a whip? Nine people have volunteered their whips,"
the emcee announced. Two women in matching teddies stepped in opposite
directions and met halfway around the pool. Looking each other in the
eyes, they kissed on the lips. The nudists clapped and cheered.
Another man came out of the dining room wearing a green-and-brown army
camouflage pattern G-string and a helmet. "We got someone from a military
base to model for us," the emcee quipped. "This guys doing night patrol."
Then came the male-female couple walking haltingly in tandem. They wore
matching scanty bottoms attached to each other by a chain. "Hold on to
the person that brought you," we were advised. "Then again, you may not
want to go home with the person that brought you...."
By now I had borrowed a pad and was furiously writing. I had become
more accustomed to the probability that I was in the video movie as the
camera swept by me each time it followed the models into the back row.
Even so, I finally made a face as I looked at the camera.
I also looked at the clock. The show had been going on for about two
hours. Periodically I'd dive in to the pool to cool off. Then I heard:
"Here are Cathy and Amy in pink and white. They're wearing frills. They
look just like little girls." The emcee paused. "Doesn't that give a new
meaning to little girls?"
I looked in the pool at two little girls and two boys about eight years
old, leaning on rubber rafts. They were watching intently.
The last act of the show was two men in drag wearing wigs, heels and
fringes. The nudist audience tittered, cheered and applauded. "Look at
them," we heard through the p.a. system. "They're trying to be careful
and don't want to mess their hair up." The two men joined the third male
model and eleven women for the grand finale, all lined up holding drinks
in a toast position. At least half the people around the pool had
drinks. They were also smoking.
Two of the models were Myra and Buddy Mesher, the owners of Sunny Rest.
I talked to Myra and Buddy after the show. Myra was tired. "I had a
little too much to drink," she told me. But I wouldn't have been able to
model otherwise.
Why? I wanted to know.
Because I was in front of all those people looking at me. I had to
drink so I wouldn't feel self-conscious.
"Don't you think that says something about the premise of the fashion
show?" I asked her. "Maybe you were right to feel self-conscious."
"The show was a good thing." Buddy, her husband, immediately spoke up.
"We have it because the people like it. And I never would have thought
I'd be modeling; initially I felt funny. But I'm glad I did it. It was
very freeing."
"The only thing", he continued, "that may not have been so great was
that the kids were there."
"But its better they learn about this here, where its safe, than on
the outside," Myra interjected.
"Look," Buddy turned toward me, "I know how you feel. But these
happenings are harmless. Women who had been too afraid and shy to go to
lingerie shops were able to get the things here, even heavy women, women
who don't have great figures. They were able to feel good about
themselves. And yes, the people do come here to get titillated. I admit
it, there's swinging here. But what people want to do in the privacy of
their own bedrooms is their business as long as I don't see it."
"Don't you think," I asked him, "that all this swinging diminishes
peoples ability to be genuinely intimate with each other?"
"When people come to Sunny Rest," Buddy explained, "they want to get
away from it all business, family pressures, politics. They don't want
to talk about anything heavy. They need to let loose. Some people come
here just to go to the disco and watch, then they go home and probably
have better sex. Others dance, are part of the show. Whatever the people
need, we provide that for them."
I awakened the next morning thinking about something else that Buddy
had told me. One weekend during a Naturist Society gathering at Sunny
Rest in 1984, he, Myra, and two other family members had seen at least
five different adults with a pre-teenaged boy, all at different times.
One man had been noticed with his hand down the boys pants.
The youths parents were not at the resort. At the end of the weekend,
after he'd seen enough to know that something improper was going on,
Buddy summoned the boy and all the adults into the office, locked the
door and called the police.
(Nikki Craft and Lee Baxandall were present during the next several hours
of questioning. Nikki has informed me that one of the offenders was a
former state trooper named James OBoyle, a member at Sunny Rest, who was
convicted several years later for over 90 counts of child rape and sodomy.
Paul Zimmer, who is now out of jail and currently networking with
various naturist groups, was the only one convicted. Robert J. Schumann,
a previously convicted child molester from Clarksburg, New Jersey was not
charged for that incident.)
This was the second incident of pedophilia Buddy had told me about
during our two-hour conversation. The other involved a little girl who
disclosed to Buddy that she was feeling uneasy because a man was
following and staring at her. "I told him very gently what the little
girl said, and he turned pale and started shaking. So I gave him his
money back and asked him to leave."
The morning after my discussion with Buddy and Myra, it is raining. In
one of the bathrooms I speak to a woman in her thirties whose boyfriend
has brought her to Sunny Rest for the weekend without telling her that it
is a nudist camp. As she speaks falteringly about her discomfort, she
inadvertently dries herself off with my towel. I tell her I don't feel
that this or any nudist camp is a good way to become introduced to a
clothing-optional lifestyle. I ask her if her boyfriend swings. She says
he does, but not when she's around, and she doesn't want to do it. He
then appears at the screen door.
"Hi, frizzle-face."
"You're not in a good mood," she says.
"Sure I am."
"You're always in a terrible mood in the morning." Her voice is
restrained, and as she speaks she is looking in the mirror and putting on
makeup.
He takes out a cigarette. "Would you mind, I ask, smoking away from the
door?"
"Not at all," he replies, then mutters as he walks away, "Jesus."
I am not sure he's out of earshot. He was being very hostile, I
remark to the young woman, my voice low. Her eyes are earnestly focused
on me. "This isn't a healthy place to learn about nudity," I repeat; then,
"Don't let him intimidate you."
Even though my new friend is considerably taller than my five foot one
inch height, she seems very frail to me. I don't yet want to leave her.
"You have a right to do what you want," I say softly but firmly. "Don't
let anyone pressure you. It's your life."
Suddenly, awkwardly, she gives me a hug from the side. I am very touched.
"Be good to yourself, I tell her."
"Thank you. Goodbye." As I depart, treading my way down the path outside,
I soberly contemplate that I'll probably never see her again. I doubt
that she'll return to Sunny Rest. At least I hope not. I know I wont.
SIDEBAR #1
The Nudist Lie
"I wonder what it would be like to come to a nudist resort as an adult.
To me it's second nature. I believe in it. I feel it is a safe place to be.
Everyone has the same thing in common."
Judy Olds, former Miss Nude World, 1978.
"I think I'm a well-rounded individual. I don't have hang-ups regarding
sex, clothing or personal communication that are so common today. I'm
much more relaxed and more in touch with people than most others."
Buddy Mesher
"Maybe people think its something else maybe something sexual, but
when they get here they find its a social thing and the experience makes
them feel good."
Myra Mesher
"What's predictable is that many people in our sex-oriented society would
assume that nudism and nudist clubs are sexually oriented. Yet the human
body loses much of its fascination when you stop playing peek-a-boo with
it. First-time visitors to a nudist club are struck almost immediately
with how unsexy a place it is. Nudists are generally very peaceful, very
low-key, very unself-conscious."
Carol Goldbergers
Excerpted from "Why Nudism from The American Sunbathing Association
Bulletin," June 1990.
Sidebar #2 in the ICONoclast
Sunny Rest Lodge (at the time this article was written) was an American
Sunbathing Association Camp and they were then the nudist club of choice
for several Naturist Society Eastern Gatherings. (Evidently the AANR no
longer sponsors them.) I don't know if they are still allied with TNS or
not. It's reputation for swinging is well established and actively
encouraged by management. During past Naturist Society Gatherings at
Sunny Rest the unscheduled evening entertainment included women on table
tops in high heels wearing Frederick of Hollywood nighties during crowded
bar dances.
Nikki Craft
Reprinted from the ICONoclast, p.o. box 2085, Rancho Cordova, Ca 95741-
2085 in Spring of 1990. Copyright by Nikki Craft. Commercial Use
Prohibited. Comments, feedback and information about individual
pedophiles are welcomed. re...@netcom.com or rer...@aol.com
--
holofernes
>
> This article was first printed in the ICONoclast in Spring of 1990.
And reprinted here ad nauseum. What's your (her) problem?
A. This is not the Sunny Rest I know.
B. Sounds like a great place.
C. I think your writer had an agenda. I KNOW you do.
t...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
>The entire weekend we were at Sunny Rest we were hounded by singles and
>couples that may have thought us an easy mark. It ticked me off. Again, I
>am not a prude, nor do I lead a sheltered life, however, I was very
>irritated at the arrongance, ignorance, and openly lewd conduct we observed
>at this camp.
I agree that such behavior has no business being in naturism. One can be
a "swinger" if one likes, but hiding behind (or USING NATURISM) is wrong.
>From what I understand, the AANR has *AGAIN* revoked it's ESA
>charter sometime ago and hopefully will not renew it. If this is your
>thing, I hope you enjoy. The camp, nor the people, do not meet my standards.
Revoked *again*? I'd be in favor of a zero tolerance policy. One strike
and you're out. For good.
I've never heard of this camp before. It is in Eastern PA by chance?
Terry
rere
: re...@netcom.com (rere) wrote:
: >
: > This article was first printed in the ICONoclast in Spring of 1990.
: And reprinted here ad nauseum. What's your (her) problem?
: A. This is not the Sunny Rest I know.
: B. Sounds like a great place.
: C. I think your writer had an agenda. I KNOW you do.
Reality just doesn't support you here. This is why the AANR dropped them
as an affiliated club because of the sleazy goings on. Many will verify
the nightie contests take place and Nina is a reputable journalist, she
didn't make the stuff up. And she's careful about what she writes. And you
think B: it sounds like a great place even with that description?
Hehehehe! What's YOUR agenda?
so much slime, so little time,
re re
--
holofernes
And so will I. I fail to see the problem, however.
>it sounds like a great place even with that description?
Yup.
>What's YOUR agenda?
Some common sense, not paranoia.
holofernes
holofernes
>
> I've never heard of this camp before. It is in Eastern PA by chance?
That's incredible! All you have to do is write "Sunnyrest" and rere aka
Nikki Craft rises to the bait like a trout to the fly. She has posted
that same article before, too.
And yes, it's in Eastern Pennsylvania in the Poconos near Palmerton
Try it for yourself. You might like it.
t...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> That's incredible! All you have to do is write "Sunnyrest" and rere aka
> Nikki Craft rises to the bait like a trout to the fly. She has posted
> that same article before, too.
Of course. It's called "rere-posting". ;-)
> And yes, it's in Eastern Pennsylvania in the Poconos near Palmerton
> Try it for yourself. You might like it.
I don't think so. I don't care much for "organized" naturism. It seems
to bring out the radical feminists^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H worst in people.
Give me disorganized feminism^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H naturism any day.
Terry
rere
: > That's incredible! All you have to do is write "Sunnyrest" and rere aka
: > Nikki Craft rises to the bait like a trout to the fly. She has posted
: > that same article before, too.
This article has not been posted in five or six months. There is much
reposting of articles on rec.nude and no one complains. Some of the FAQs
are posted every month. Beach directions are published frequently. You are
complaining because you don't agree with the content. Tough. Get used to it.
re re
--
rere
: > You are
: > complaining because you don't agree with the content. Tough. Get used to it.
: Wasn't complaining. Was stating a fact. Don't have to get used to it.
: Don't have to read it. And when I get to my home system with kill
: file capability, I won't even see it anymore. (This is NetScape -- no
: kill file.)
I'll look forward to it.
: In an earlier post, did you not make a remark to the effect that if
: you had love you could sleep at night? Life without love is hardly
: life at all. I sympathize with you.
Since my sleep habits have now become a topic of discussion here on
rec.nude, and truth be known, I do keep late hours, but get at least 7 to 8
hours sleep in every twenty four hour period and once I hit the bed I
sleep peaceful and cozy, all snug in cotton or flannel sheets, down
comforter, on piles of feather pillows on a so-called king size water bed,
covered with a thick and plush feather mattress, sometimes shared with a
good friend. I have close friends in my life that I have intimate,
sharing relationships who live all over the country.
Did you actually think I made that remark? The remark I made
was that that post was forged and that I didn't write it.
You must have missed that one. There have even been several other posts
discussing the forgery, but I guess you didn't catch those either. No, I
never made any such remark, and I certainly don't want nor need your
sympathy. When this hacker has forged other typically identifiably
similar sympathy inspiring satires I have said this, that you should save
your sympathy for the US nudist/naturist movement because if they don't
make some changes they are going to deserve a lot more pity than I ever
would.
Richard Kenner
>This article has not been posted in five or six months. There is much
>reposting of articles on rec.nude and no one complains. Some of the FAQs
>are posted every month. Beach directions are published frequently.
You may have noticed that I don't post detailed beach directions any
more. Part of this is my not wanting to take my time to do so. But
it's also to avoid clutter. Instead, I refer people to the FAQ or
home pages. I encourage others to do likewise (e.g., Rich's repeated
posting of California sites). FAQ's are getting obsolete, being
replaced by web pages.
Sunny Rest is, from all I've heard, indeed not your typical nudist
resort and people should be told that. However, it doesn't take a
posting of a hundred lines or so to that. Get that story put in a web
page somewhere and then point people to it.
The purpose of FAQs is to *increase* the signal content of a newsgroup
by putting out lots of information periodically so people don't
constantly ask about it. Note that an FAQ posting of the size of your
single posting contains the answers to *lots* of questions, not just one.
>You are complaining because you don't agree with the content.
No, the complaint is because you again seem to feel you can interpret
longstanding net etiquette rules in whatever ways seems to suit your "cause".
NYC couple
I appreciate all your replies and will probably go anyway. Since we can't
afford to Paradise lakes or Cypress cove all the time, this place will
have to suffice. It sounds a little like Hedonism II in jamaica. We have
been there several times and had a great time. If it's any help I will
post my impressions when we get back
Joe Collazo
holofernes
> I appreciate all your replies and will probably go anyway.
Good. Enjoy! After all, if you don't like the people or the activities,
you can leave or go somewhere on the very extensive grounds and be
alone. You can even put your clothes on and explore the territory.
There are shops, nice country restaurants, even sporting events like,
would you believe, demolition derbies.
And when you get there, tell Myra and Buddy Mesher that George and
Linda Ambrozy as well as Nancy and Bill send their regards and best
wishes and how are the children.
holofernes
> You are
> complaining because you don't agree with the content. Tough. Get used to it.
Wasn't complaining. Was stating a fact. Don't have to get used to it.
Don't have to read it. And when I get to my home system with kill
file capability, I won't even see it anymore. (This is NetScape -- no
kill file.)
In an earlier post, did you not make a remark to the effect that if
rere
: In article <rereDBv...@netcom.com> re...@netcom.com (rere) writes:
: >This article has not been posted in five or six months. There is much
: >reposting of articles on rec.nude and no one complains. Some of the FAQs
: >are posted every month. Beach directions are published frequently.
: You may have noticed that I don't post detailed beach directions any
: more. Part of this is my not wanting to take my time to do so. But
: it's also to avoid clutter. Instead, I refer people to the FAQ or
: home pages. I encourage others to do likewise (e.g., Rich's repeated
: posting of California sites). FAQ's are getting obsolete, being
: replaced by web pages.
Well you did do it. If you choose not to then that is your business.
: Sunny Rest is, from all I've heard, indeed not your typical nudist
: resort and people should be told that. However, it doesn't take a
: posting of a hundred lines or so to that. Get that story put in a web
: page somewhere and then point people to it.
I am currently working on that.
: The purpose of FAQs is to *increase* the signal content of a newsgroup
: by putting out lots of information periodically so people don't
: constantly ask about it. Note that an FAQ posting of the size of your
: single posting contains the answers to *lots* of questions, not just one.
: >You are complaining because you don't agree with the content.
: No, the complaint is because you again seem to feel you can interpret
: longstanding net etiquette rules in whatever ways seems to suit your "cause".
Articles are reposted to rec.nude all the time. There is lots of
repetitive information being posted. Repeats of ads for TNS and ANNR
and other clubs. Terry's post (about Jamaica, I think) is one that comes
to mind that has been posted many times and I've not heard anyone say
word one about that and others. Beach updates to the same locations are
frequently posted. I wish I could count the times that the directions
were posted on how to get to the ledges. Now that is the information
that ought to be on a www cite instead of cluttering up this group yet I
never heard you comment on those items being reposted and their
repetitivity.
re re
--
Richard Kenner
>It sounds a little like Hedonism II in jamaica.
As far as social atmosphere, that's probably correct. However, from
what I understand, the *facilities* of Sunny Rest are nowhere near up
to those standards.
holofernes
Quite true. Primitive is not too strong a word. The food is the best
thing the local restaurants have going for them. Rustic. But fun.
rere
Why did you think you could compare that camp to Hedonism? That's
laughable. Run down is a good phrase for it. Why sugar coat it with a
loaded word like "primitive"? I would HOPE the local resaurants have food
going for them, but that hardly a reason to encourage people to travel
across state lines to get there. What's so much fun about Sunny Rest in
particular? What can you get there that you don't get other places?
re re
--
Rex Hunt
>In article <3ue1km$b...@news.Austria.EU.net>, holofernes <@unido.org> writes:
>
>> That's incredible! All you have to do is write "Sunnyrest" and rere aka
>> Nikki Craft rises to the bait like a trout to the fly. She has posted
>> that same article before, too.
>
>
>> And yes, it's in Eastern Pennsylvania in the Poconos near Palmerton
>> Try it for yourself. You might like it.
>
>I don't think so. I don't care much for "organized" naturism. It seems
>to bring out the radical feminists^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H worst in people.
>
>Give me disorganized feminism^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H naturism any day.
>
>Terry
thing out. Terry, your point about "organized" naturism has been a thing
with me for quite some time. I am not a member of a club or any
naturist/nudist orginization. I simply enjoy going out to the quarrys
every once in a while for a swim. Don't have a hot tub :-( but if I did,
you wouldn't see a swimsuit within a mile of the place. Disorganized
Feminism? Isn't that a given? ;->
rere
: In article <rereDBy...@netcom.com> re...@netcom.com (rere) writes:
: >What's so much fun about Sunny Rest in
: Well, there aren't very many nudist (or even "quasi-nudist") resorts
: in the NYC area. Fre-Bare is closer (for some of the city), but is
: even more rustic. Rock Lodge is also closer, but doesn't admit singles.
: Empire Haven and Phoenix are much further.
oh come on richard, you always ruin all my fun. you haven't even been to
sunny rest so just stay out of this. If I'm not mistaken he is from
England, isn't he? So why Sunny Rest?
re re
--
Richard Kenner
Brian
(whatever that means). Part of that is from the earky days of the current
ownership, when they tried to attract customers by advertising in swinger's
magazines. I don't know if they still do advertise in those periodicals;
but the reputation apparently has perpetuated. My experiences at SRL
(extensive, but quite a long time ago) is that it is a little more open
that many other nudist joints, but still is a family place where explicit
sexual behavior is not tolerated. I think any honest nudist would admit
that there is always a sexually active contingent at any nudist resort, at
SRL, it just seems to be a little less under wraps.
holofernes
> oh come on richard, you always ruin all my fun. you haven't even been to
> sunny rest so just stay out of this. If I'm not mistaken he is from
> England, isn't he? So why Sunny Rest?
Are you rereferring to I?
If so, whatever gave you the idea I am from England?
It should be obvious that I have in fact been to Sunny Rest. You know,
in this day and age, a plane ride from Europe to New York, via Concorde,
to be extravagant, takes about three hours. Clearing Customs takes
much longer.
holofernes
>
(Snip a lot. My reader [NetScape] won't tolerate quotes longer than
replies.)
> I think any honest nudist would admit
> that there is always a sexually active contingent at any nudist resort, at
> SRL, it just seems to be a little less under wraps.
I think this gentleman's entire post should be read to put things in
perspective -- if that's what you want, of course. The word and
concept are quite foreign to some people.
Ricardo Ben-Safed
> In article <3ugi83$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> nycc...@aol.com (NYC couple) writes:
>>It sounds a little like Hedonism II in jamaica.
>
> As far as social atmosphere, that's probably correct. However, from
> to those standards.
Just what are the standards at Sunny Rest? -Ricardo
Richard Linsley Hood
> Richard Linsley Hood <rich...@dakal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Austria. What is the Naturist/Nudist movement like over there?
>
> What movement? There is an organization called the Frei Korper Kultur
> (FKK) to which I gather one can belong and get a membership card. This
> entitles you to go as a single to the City thermal baths on Sunday
> evenings when cloting is not allowed. As a pair, no card required.
>
> Aside from that, people here seem to take off their clothes at any
> opportunity. One could almost think the whole country was CO. Which is
> funny in a way since the population of Vienna probably has the highest
> percentage of evening clothes of any place in the world.
snip (regretfully) a wonderful description of a naturist/nudist environment.
> So, come visit.
I would love to, but work, lack of money, a nice beach 4 miles away, and
being tied to this machine (please no bondage comments) means it is not
likely for a while.
Off to the south of France for August though :-)
--
Richard Linsley Hood | Poole, Dorset UK | email: rich...@dakal.demon.co.uk
"Programming is mirroring the world, inside a computer" Larry O'Brien 1991
Brian
Rest, to mid-western Christian fundamentalist type places. There is one
common thread that runs through all these places: if a couple is seeking
swinging, they can find it. We didn't find thi sshockinf though. Lets
face it, I don't care what any particular individual says, there is a
certain element of sexual intrigue (or stimulation) that is part of nudism.
Just like sex is part of advertising, glamour or automobiles. Just that
with nudism, those exposed bodies do seem to make it even more obvious.
Richard Linsley Hood
The problem is, I suspect, that there are a disproportionate number of
'Richard's in this thread. I am one (of the two Richards who are from England)
and it wasn't me who said this and I don't think it was the other one either.
Perhaps the noise got too great (or is that the signal got too small).
By the way I assume from your headers that you are in fact posting from
Austria. What is the Naturist/Nudist movement like over there? And yes I
used to (and did) take a very long time getting through US customs. (and me
with a B1/B2 visa as well).
rere
: SRL has grown up with the reputation of a "swingers" nudist resort
: (whatever that means). Part of that is from the earky days of the current
: ownership, when they tried to attract customers by advertising in swinger's
: magazines.
Well gosh, it's hard to understand why advertising in swinger camps would
attract swinger. Can't understand HOW IN THE WORLD that happened!!!!
I don't know if they still do advertise in those periodicals;
: but the reputation apparently has perpetuated. My experiences at SRL
: (extensive, but quite a long time ago) is that it is a little more open
: that many other nudist joints, but still is a family place where explicit
: sexual behavior is not tolerated. I think any honest nudist would admit
: that there is always a sexually active contingent at any nudist resort, at
: SRL, it just seems to be a little less under wraps.
One reason it's less under wraps is that the owners are swinger and they
run a swinger nudist camp. That's Sunny Rest is a swinger camp. This is
not a problem from the "earky days". This is a current problem and that
is why -- just recently -- the AANR purportedly dropped their
affiliation. Earky days, indeed.
re re
**Michael Moore's TV Nation is on Friday night on FOX NOT NBC.
DON'T MISS THIS SHOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--
holofernes
> That's Sunny Rest is a swinger camp. This is a current problem
Why is it a problem? To whom is it a problem? To you? If to you,
why should that bother anyone else? Those are all people of free
will doing or not doing what they want to do with no harm to anyone
else.
holofernes
> Austria. What is the Naturist/Nudist movement like over there?
What movement? There is an organization called the Frei Korper Kultur
(FKK) to which I gather one can belong and get a membership card. This
entitles you to go as a single to the City thermal baths on Sunday
evenings when cloting is not allowed. As a pair, no card required.
Aside from that, people here seem to take off their clothes at any
opportunity. One could almost think the whole country was CO. Which is
funny in a way since the population of Vienna probably has the highest
percentage of evening clothes of any place in the world.
There is a huge park here called the Lobau on and next to the Donau
Insel (Danube Island). For about five kilometers it is solid CO. There
are also several other araes on and around the island designated as
CO. You know you are there when you see "FKK" painted on the bike
path or see naked people walking around. The whole thing is totally
hassle free and unself conscious. There is a Kinderspielplatz
(children's play ground) in the middle of the FKK area with swings,
sand box, etc. It is of course surrounded be leering pedophiles.
You can get there in 15 minutes from central Vienna. Take the U1
subway (U Bahn, Metro, Underground) to the Kaisermuehlen-Vienna Inter-
national Center station and change to the Number 91A bus right there.
The bus runs every 15 or 20 minutes. Take the bus until you see naked
people walking along the roadway (honest!) or, if it's a slow day and
you see none, get off at Lobgrundstrasse and walk about 150 feet over
toward the river. Then you will see oodles of naked people. Just take
off your clothes and enjoy. Is that a movement? I think not. It's
just being natural. The subway and bus fare is aboiut 17 schillings
one way ($1.70 or one pound ten thereabouts).
There are many restaurants (Gasthauser, Imbiss, Selbsbedienung) in this
area. It is not necessary to put clothes on. The mobile ice cream
vendor, eine huebsche Maedchen, is also naked, surrounded by adults
and children buying ice cream.
Last weekend I was approached by two naked people who asked me to sign
a petition against French nuclear bomb testing. Nowhere to put the
paper to sign it. The aldy turned her attractive back to me and bent
over so I could put the paper on her back and sign it, to the amusemen
of the surrounding naked multitudes.
There is no other place like this. Best of all, no Nikki Crafts to
spoil the pleasure and stir up dissent and discord. People just do
what comes naturally, including, occasionally, behaving in an
inappropriate because public amorous manner, which stops well short
of embarrassing. Get multitudes of naked people horizontal together,
their thoughts may indeed turn to nature.
Which is not to say that everyone in Vienna runs around naked. There
are many people here from the Midle East who also like to picnic.
Indeed, walking by their cookouts is a mouth-watering experience. But
they stay well outside the FKK zones, their women swathed from head to
toe.
So, come visit.
rere
: B...@usa.pipeline.com(Brian) wrote:
: >
: (Snip a lot. My reader [NetScape] won't tolerate quotes longer than
: replies.)
: > I think any honest nudist would admit
: > that there is always a sexually active contingent at any nudist resort, at
: > SRL, it just seems to be a little less under wraps.
: I think this gentleman's entire post should be read to put things in
: perspective -- if that's what you want, of course. The word and
: concept are quite foreign to some people.
What in the heck is THAT supposed to mean. You snip the quote and then
say that it needs to be read. What word? What concept? Being vague here
intentionally? Why not explain directly what you mean and cite the text to
which you are referring?
Austria? England? What's so much FUN about Sunny Rest for a guy from
Austria?
Richard Kenner
I wouldn't go quite so far as tagging them a "swinger's camp", though
certainly swinging goes on.
The "problem" is not the swinging per se, since as you say, adults
should be free to do as they want so long as nobody is harmed.
The problem is that Sunny Rest calls itself a "nudist resort" and so
associates swinging and nudism in the minds of people who know about
it. This is not good press for nudism.
By the way, I think the "problem" is more serious at Paradise Lakes
than Sunny Rest. Even though there is likely proportionally less
swinging at Paradise Lakes and what there is is much more private,
Paradise Lakes is much more well known and is the AANR "flagship
resort".
t...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> ... calls itself a "nudist resort" and so
> associates swinging and nudism in the minds of people who know about
> it. This is not good press for nudism.
It's just one of the many ways that naturism is "used" by those who would
hide behind it. Why don't they just come and and call themselves a "swinger's"
resort and be done with it? Well, we all know the answer. They'd be shut
down in a heart beat.
The same goes with apb.nudism: Why don't they just call themselves
apb.nude-children? The proof is left as an exercise to the reader. ;-)
Terry
Per Bothner
>It should be obvious that I have in fact been to Sunny Rest. You know,
>in this day and age, a plane ride from Europe to New York, via Concorde,
>to be extravagant, takes about three hours. Clearing Customs takes
>much longer.
I don't recall that clearing customs has taken me more than
about half an hour anywhere in the last 10 years.
There were horror stories before then, but U.S. customs has gotten
a lot better, at least the places I've flown into (Chicago's O'Hare,
San Francisco, Newark, LAX, ...)
--
--Per Bothner
Cygnus Support bot...@cygnus.com
Rings228
other resorts. It is a nice friendly place and nobody forces anyone to
swing or indulge in activities they dont like.
Peterkeith
News Master
>
>Has anyone out there been to sunny rest lodge in PA? We are going there
>at the end of the month and would love to have some feedback about the
>place. Is it like paradise lakes in fla?. That and Cypress cove in FL
>are our only experiece in CO resorts. THank you in advance
>
>Joe Collazo
Hi Joe,
I don't know much about Sunny Rest Lodge, but there is a pretty good club
near there, called Beechwood Lodge. This one is located just outside of
Lehighton Pa. I haven't been there for about 10 years. They had a
heated, covered pool, saunna, big, hot whirlpool, nice tennis courts and
a dance hall. Pretty nice place, perhaps not as slick as some, but I
enjoyed it while I was there.
Cozmo
Again I disagree. The people at Sunny Rest were boorish, pushy, arrogant,
and behaved in a manner that made me ashamed that Sunny Rest calls themselves
a nudist facility. Just ask the AANR about them. This organization was
also ashamed to have them under the AANR charter. Nudism does NOT equate
to swinging and open sex. (please don't attempt to tell me that they keep
their sexual activity behind closed doors, myself, wife and freinds were not
hallucinating). You are right about one thing, nobody forced me to swing
or indulge... if they would have tried, I would have kicked some ass. Try
being a (what I consider) an attractive couple and just walk through the
place. Hmmmmmm.... maybe that's why you did notice anthing.
Natch, Coz
Richard C Pasco
So do:
Chess players
Christians
Tennis players
Gourmets
Parents raising small children
etc.
The point is that there is room for everyone. Nudism is not about
swinging, and swingers are by and large discrete: they don't advertise
or practice their preferences openly; in this way they are different from
the other groups mentioned above. Swinging is not contagious, and you
are always at choice, even if approached: "No, thanks, I'm not into that"
is all it takes. Anything more is harassment, and grounds for complaint
to the management.
- Rich
Dean T
THANK GOODNESS! Finally someone has said something that really makes sense.
I get so tired of reading of the freedom expressed by some naturalists here
in one sentence and then the next sentence they condem someone else for
having the freedom to do what they like. It reeks of hyprocracy.
Dean
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean T. | The solution to the drug problem in
Technion University Medical | America is not less drugs, but MORE drugs
de...@tx.technion.ac.il | and give them to the right people!
NoalReid
>In article <3utu7k$8...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, noal...@aol.com
(NoalReid)
>writes:
>
>> Yes, I'm sure swingers have their ways to recognize other swingers.
>
>It's the secret "hand shake". I'd tell you exactly what it is, but then
>they'd
>have to kill (file) me.
Oh, I'd thought maybe, like dogs in heat, they recognized one another by
SCENT! :)
Noal
Richard C Pasco
In article <142...@cup.portal.com>, I wrote:
>The point is that there is room for everyone. Nudism is not about
>swinging, and swingers are by and large discrete: they don't advertise ...
It seems I used the wrong spelling of "discreet". I didn't mean to say
that swingers consist of disconnected parts; I meant to say that they
are circumspect. From the American Heritage Dictionary:
dis-crete adj. 1. Constituting a separate thing; distinct. 2. Consisting
of unconnected distinct parts. 3. Mathematics. Defined for a finite set
of values; not continuous.
dis-creet adj. 1. Marked by, exercising, or showing prudence and wise
self-restraint in speech and behavior; circumspect. 2. Free from
ostentation or pretension; modest.
- Rich
rere
: THANK GOODNESS! Finally someone has said something that really makes sense.
: I get so tired of reading of the freedom expressed by some naturalists here
: in one sentence and then the next sentence they condem someone else for
: having the freedom to do what they like. It reeks of hyprocracy.
Dean, you are coming in on the last decades of nudists claiming that sex
has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism when in fact it motivates many
to get involved in the first place. Wife swapping is more than welcome in
the nudist/naturist lifestyle. It's time they admit it, that's all. Then
people can decide if they wish to allign with the movement. But it's time
for them to stop lying to the public and their members.
--
** Re Re **
*****************PGP 2.6.2.*****************
Public Key fm pgp-pub...@pgp.ai.mit.edu
**********Subj: GET re...@netcom.com*********
Michael Moore's TV Nation is on Friday nights on FOX NOT NBC
************************************************************
Peter F. DeMos
: >>Dean, you are coming in on the last decades of nudists claiming that sex
: >>has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism when in fact it motivates many
: >>to get involved in the first place. Wife swapping is more than welcome in
: >>the nudist/naturist lifestyle.
: re re, this is pure and unadulterated hogwash. I can't speak empirically to
: the first statement, but the second I can.
>I can't tell if you are talking about the whole first sentence, or part
>one of the first sentence, so I'm not how to respond.
I am responding in reverse order.
>: Absolutely not true. Not saying
>: it (swinging) doesn't exist at all, but it is *not* condoned by many.
>: I was going to nude beaches *long* before I started swinging.
This responds to sentence one of the statement of yours at the beginning
of this post and admittedly applies directly to me, but I know many others
with much the same story as mine. Being a recovering alcoholic for as many
years as I have, I am quite comfortable discussing it, and know many recovering
people in the 'movement' as well. Many have similar stories as mine. Many also
quit their sexual escapades, when they got sober. Thank the Lord, I didn't
have to :-) Thank the Lord as well that I have stayed alive, caught no
deadly diseases or dangerous STD's during this time and I am grateful to
have entered another phase of life; PARENTHOOD!!!!! ARRRGGGHHHHH!!! Hehehehe.
>I didn't mean to be laying down any hard and fast rules about how nudists
>get into swinging or swingers get into nudism. I just know it seems to be
>an overlap.
See my numbers below. Though not 'scientific' in its' base, I do have a lot
of experience in this 'field'.
>I certainly wasn't commenting on how, why, or the chronology
>of how you got involved in swinging or nudism.
And I never thought you were.
>: I got involved
>: with swinging due to my drug and alcohol use/abuse, *not* because of my
>: nude beach attendance, or the lifestyle I adopted.
By the by, I don't *blame* my experiences and path on drug/alcohol use/abuse,
I simply believe that is how *I* got involved. Personally, I'm glad I did.
I have never impinged my beliefs or 'rights' on ANYone.
I have enjoyed a rich, healthy, varied sex life that seems to finally
becoming a somewhat more sedate life that befits my advancing age. Hehehehe.
>I'm not sure what you are saying is hogwash. I know that many do not
>condone swinging and are critical, but don't you think that swinging is
>tolerated by the movement in general? That's what I found.
I have found that to be not true. In general, I would say that is a false
hypothesis. Swingers may make up at *most* a 6-8% part of 'regular' society.
I would say that swingers *might* make up, again at most, 12-15% (roughly
double) of the nudist/naturist society. Mind you, this includes the
drug/alcohol user that may do it once, maybe twice, when intoxicated/loaded.
And that I think is *very* generous.
Probably another 35-40% don't care what others might do behind closed doors,
and the remainder (again, this is my own experience and idea) are your typical
intolerant prigs that want to put down most anyone that is 'different' from
them. I have known a *lot* of rednecks in the nudist society over the years.
In *spite* of the fact that they themselves are nudists, a not enTIREly
accepted activity by much of society.
<snipped part about history with Lee, and others>
>This is partly where my held opinions about nudism and swinging come from.
re re, I consider myself to be a friend of yours in spite of some of our
differences, as you well know. I invite you to reexamine your opinions, and
see where you may be wrong, or off base.
peterd
rere
: The situation with AANR is a political one. SRL still remains a good place
: to visit.
I don't doubt it's a politial one. So why don't you explain what you are
talking about instead of just dropping a one liner. Give us information.
DGrassi
>nudists claiming that sex has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism
>when in fact it motivates >many to get involved in the first place.
Gee, a similar statement can be made about male/female relationships
LEADING to marriage. Let's try:
Men and women claiming that sex has NOTHING to do with love or marriage
when in fact it motivates many to get involved in the first place.
So is love and marriage also bad?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Dan Grassi, DGr...@aol.com
DGrassi
>I didn't mean to be laying down any hard and fast rules about how nudists
>get into swinging or swingers get into nudism. I just know it seems to be
>an overlap.
And there is also such an overlap between swinging and most other
interests/memberships including Ham Radio, Church, NRA, etc.
So what?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Dan Grassi, DGr...@aol.com
Richard Linsley Hood
> Dean, you are coming in on the last decades of nudists claiming that sex
> has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism when in fact it motivates many
> to get involved in the first place. Wife swapping is more than welcome in
> the nudist/naturist lifestyle. It's time they admit it, that's all. Then
> people can decide if they wish to allign with the movement. But it's time
> for them to stop lying to the public and their members.
Over here in the UK Naturism has little or nothing to do with wife swapping
at all. If you went to BDOC (a very long term Naturist club near here,
shown recently - Monday - on TV during a piece on Naturism in the UK) you
would have to look VERY hard to find anyone who swaps anything but stamps or
model trains. Studland beach (also near here) is full of people lying around
with no clothes on and swapping nothing but tall stories.
If you were to suggest to 99% (or more) of the people who attend either of
those venues that what they did was firstly motivated by sex, or that
wife swapping was expected as part of what they did, I would suggest that
any assumtions about traditional English reserve would be rapidly removed.
BN, as a UK example, does not expect, condone or promote sexuality in any
form as part of the Naturist lifestyle. They are not lying. To suggest
they are is plainly false.
Rings228
tim keene
>Dean T (de...@techunix.technion.ac.il) wrote:
>
>: THANK GOODNESS! Finally someone has said something that really makes sense.
>: I get so tired of reading of the freedom expressed by some naturalists here
>: in one sentence and then the next sentence they condem someone else for
>: having the freedom to do what they like. It reeks of hyprocracy.
>
>has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism when in fact it motivates many
>to get involved in the first place.
A few, I'm sure, are so motivated.
>Wife swapping is more than welcome in the nudist/naturist lifestyle.
I'll take exception to the above statement. By using the phrase, 'in the
nudist/naturist lifestyle', you are implying, to those unaccostomed to
nudism, that *all* nudists follow that doctrine. I'm sure some do, and I
have at least one friend, here, on rec.nude, who is a swinger. But if
you are going to paint with so broad a brush, then you perhaps should
have used the phrase '20th century man', instead of the one you did. I'm
not a swinger, and while I do look at women, I don't believe I do so in a
manner, or with such gusto, as to be offensive to any.
>It's time they admit it, that's all. Then
>people can decide if they wish to allign with the movement.
Here, you have tied all nudists to a particular lifestyle, then said that
people who disagree (perhaps) shouldn't allign with the 'movement'. And
next, you write . . .
>But it's time for them to stop lying to the public and their members.
. . . . Which says that *not* all nudists believe what you have just
alluded, but only the *leaders*. I'm sorry, but *I don't recognize a
'leader' to what I do on the weekends.* Neither do I swing. So what you
are addressing doesn't apply to me, or in fact, about 95% of the people I
know.
In trying to attack pedofiles, you have, in fact, attacked many, if not
most, of the nudists who *exist*. I agree with you that pedofiles can,
and likely do, work some of the nudist camps. When you lump everyone
into the same basket, you will *always* miss your target.
attilla
--
attilla the hun (Tim Keene)
Best Process server/Skip-Tracer
in known world. (408-262-7021)
att...@netcom.com
Peter F. DeMos
>Dean, you are coming in on the last decades of nudists claiming that sex
>has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism when in fact it motivates many
>to get involved in the first place. Wife swapping is more than welcome in
>the nudist/naturist lifestyle.
re re, this is pure and unadulterated hogwash. I can't speak empirically to
the first statement, but the second I can. Absolutely not true. Not saying
it (swinging) doesn't exist at all, but it is *not* condoned by many.
I was going to nude beaches *long* before I started swinging. I got involved
with swinging due to my drug and alcohol use/abuse, *not* because of my
nude beach attendance, or the lifestyle I adopted.
peterd
rere
: re...@netcom.com (rere) writes:
: >Dean, you are coming in on the last decades of nudists claiming that sex
: >has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism when in fact it motivates many
: >to get involved in the first place. Wife swapping is more than welcome in
: >the nudist/naturist lifestyle.
: re re, this is pure and unadulterated hogwash. I can't speak empirically to
: the first statement, but the second I can.
I can't tell if you are talking about the whole first sentence, or part
one of the first sentence, so I'm not how to respond.
: Absolutely not true. Not saying
: it (swinging) doesn't exist at all, but it is *not* condoned by many.
: I was going to nude beaches *long* before I started swinging.
I didn't mean to be laying down any hard and fast rules about how nudists
get into swinging or swingers get into nudism. I just know it seems to be
an overlap. I certainly wasn't commenting on how, why, or the chronology
of how you got involved in swinging or nudism.
: I got involved
: with swinging due to my drug and alcohol use/abuse, *not* because of my
: nude beach attendance, or the lifestyle I adopted.
I'm not sure what you are saying is hogwash. I know that many do not
condone swinging and are critical, but don't you think that swinging is
tolerated by the movement in general? That's what I found.
When Nancy Volak complained about all the swingers she was the one
who was called "paranoid" and I watched Lee Baxandall for years be
afraid to even run a critique (tho he has done so since then)
because of what he felt was likely to come down from the nudist faction. He
didn't run anything against swinging until just the last few years even
tho swinging was one of the things that disgusted him the most about
nudists. But he always said that in private.
This is partly where my held opinions about nudism and swinging come from.
--
Brian
Martin Brilliant
> Dean T (de...@techunix.technion.ac.il) wrote:
> [ snip ]
>
> Dean, you are coming in on the last decades of nudists claiming that sex
> has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism when in fact it motivates many
> to get involved in the first place. Wife swapping is more than welcome in
> the nudist/naturist lifestyle. It's time they admit it, that's all. Then
> people can decide if they wish to allign with the movement. But it's time
> for them to stop lying to the public and their members.
I would guess that that's a half truth. I think a lot of people get
interested in naturism, not exactly because they think it will get them
actual active sex, but because they think the experience will be
stimulating - call it "prurient interest" as in pornography.
Then I think most of them find out that it's really different - it's not
tittilating (not as much as they expected, anyway), it's relaxing,
refreshing, liberating. It's a whole new way of feeling the world. And
they like it.
That's most of them. I will accept that a few sickies never catch on.
But they are a minority among naturists, even if they are enough to create
a problem.
And I won't agree that there is a "naturist life style" that necessarily
includes wife-swapping. I will accept that other people do it, but
personally I find it disgusting - and I don't feel that way about gay sex,
in case anybody wants to know.
Posting with pants on - for a change.
Marty
Martin B. Brilliant at home in Holmdel, NJ
rere
: In article <rereDCA...@netcom.com> re...@netcom.com "rere" writes:
: > Dean, you are coming in on the last decades of nudists claiming that sex
: > has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism when in fact it motivates many
: > to get involved in the first place. Wife swapping is more than welcome in
: > the nudist/naturist lifestyle. It's time they admit it, that's all. Then
: > people can decide if they wish to allign with the movement. But it's time
: > for them to stop lying to the public and their members.
: Over here in the UK Naturism has little or nothing to do with wife swapping
: at all. If you went to BDOC (a very long term Naturist club near here,
: shown recently - Monday - on TV during a piece on Naturism in the UK) you
: would have to look VERY hard to find anyone who swaps anything but stamps or
: model trains. Studland beach (also near here) is full of people lying around
: with no clothes on and swapping nothing but tall stories.
: If you were to suggest to 99% (or more) of the people who attend either of
: those venues that what they did was firstly motivated by sex, or that
: wife swapping was expected as part of what they did, I would suggest that
: any assumtions about traditional English reserve would be rapidly removed.
: BN, as a UK example, does not expect, condone or promote sexuality in any
: form as part of the Naturist lifestyle. They are not lying. To suggest
: they are is plainly false.
I've stated I am talking about US naturism. Ya'll are getting your own
group because this is the US group ;-). True, I don't know what is going on
over there, and I did state that, however the fact that H & E is the number
one European naturist porn magazine (and not BN WHICH IS NOT PORN!) DOES
make me wonder, but -- as I've said -- I am only talking about the US.
> Dean, you are coming in on the last decades of nudists claiming that sex
: > has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism when in fact it motivates many
: > to get involved in the first place.
This is what I am talking about the movement lying about -- not the wife
swapping (that is only a part of it) and not what I mean to emphasize as
long this is going to be my most quoted post for the month :-).
re re
rere
: rere writes:
: >nudists claiming that sex has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism
: >when in fact it motivates >many to get involved in the first place.
: Gee, a similar statement can be made about male/female relationships
: LEADING to marriage. Let's try:
: Men and women claiming that sex has NOTHING to do with love or marriage
: when in fact it motivates many to get involved in the first place.
: So is love and marriage also bad?
Well no one is saying that sex doesn't have ANYthing to do with
marriage are they?-) Never did hear that claim, did you? So it's time
nudists/naturists stop making the claim that *nudism* has nothing to do with
sex because there are many who are attracted to nudism simply because
they believe nudity = sex and they want some of it. You know, like the
voyeurs on the cliffs that some naturists are so fond of recruiting. You
know, like the pedophles who are looking at pictures of your kids while
they are being *healed*. You know the kind of nudists and naturists who
think that nudity = sex. That doesn't mean ALL that means too many. Let's
just have the leadership get down and admit that and it won't be
hypocritical.
so much slime,
so little time,
wharfie
>And I won't agree that there is a "naturist life style" that necessarily
>includes wife-swapping. I will accept that other people do it, but
Necessarily, no. Possibly, yes.
It's not at all hard for me to imagine people who don't care
who their mates choose to make love to.
wharfie
>List nearly any two groups of people and you'll find some overlap.
For instance, nudists and rabid Dworkinite wackos.
woody(webersol@epix.net)
> Date: Wed, 26 JUL 1995 01:53:37 GMT
> From: rere <re...@netcom.com>
> Newgroups: rec.nude
> Subject: Re: Swinger's Restort vs. Nudist Resort
>
> has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism when in fact it motivates many
> to get involved in the first place. Wife swapping is more than welcome in
> the nudist/naturist lifestyle. It's time they admit it, that's all. Then
> people can decide if they wish to allign with the movement. But it's time
> for them to stop lying to the public and their members.
WIFE SWAPPING? You are showing your age on that one That is a tired old
description fron the sixties.In this day and age more swapping is
instigated by the female who is more than likely not married to her
swinging partner. Why not try a real investigation before saying things
you know nothing about.
If a person has no hang-ups about his or her body and believes that your
partner is NOT your property to direct as you see fit , then you may find
that life is fun and filled with adventure be it nudeism or
swinging,Swinging another bad term ,should be called exerciseing your
right to choose.
Too many confuse sex and love, they are not the same. Sex can be a part
of love ,but you can love someone without ever having sex with them.Sex
is a normal body function and should be treated as such unless you have
been brain-washed by years of the Puritian ethic(If it's fun , it's bad)
Thats all I'm off my soap-box for now.
Woody Ebersold webe...@epix.net
Richard Linsley Hood
> I've stated I am talking about US naturism. Ya'll are getting your own
> group because this is the US group ;-). True, I don't know what is going on
> over there, and I did state that, however the fact that H & E is the number
> one European naturist porn magazine (and not BN WHICH IS NOT PORN!) DOES
> make me wonder, but -- as I've said -- I am only talking about the US.
Please tell me why you believe that Naturists in the US are any different
from Naturists here in the UK (or in France, Holland, Germany or anywhere
else for that matter). I thought the simple pleasure of going to a beach,
park or club, taking ones clothes off and relaxing in the sun was universal.
The only possible reason for trying to start up a non US based group (which
is by no means certain to get approval) would be to reduce the amount of off
topic posts.
P.S. Something is either Naturist or porn it cannot be both. Either H&E is
a porn mag or its a Naturist mag. I vote one way, you vote the other.
Richard Kenner
>I didn't mean to be laying down any hard and fast rules about how nudists
>get into swinging or swingers get into nudism. I just know it seems to be
>an overlap.
List nearly any two groups of people and you'll find some overlap.
What's your point?
Brian
learned, it was that Brits and Yanks have very different culture. It would
seem very un-English for an Englishman to blantantly profess any sort of
swinging. Are there pubs for swingers?
rere
: > I've stated I am talking about US naturism. Ya'll are getting your own
: > group because this is the US group ;-). True, I don't know what is going on
: > over there, and I did state that, however the fact that H & E is the number
: > one European naturist porn magazine (and not BN WHICH IS NOT PORN!) DOES
: > make me wonder, but -- as I've said -- I am only talking about the US.
: Please tell me why you believe that Naturists in the US are any different
: from Naturists here in the UK (or in France, Holland, Germany or anywhere
: else for that matter). I thought the simple pleasure of going to a beach,
: park or club, taking ones clothes off and relaxing in the sun was universal.
Cultures may vary, but ask holoferenes if there is a difference in US
culture and yours. I think there might be but wouldn't venture where.
: The only possible reason for trying to start up a non US based group (which
: is by no means certain to get approval) would be to reduce the amount of off
: topic posts.
: P.S. Something is either Naturist or porn it cannot be both. Either H&E is
: a porn mag or its a Naturist mag. I vote one way, you vote the other.
--
** Re Re **
rere
Martin Brilliant
> Richard Linsley Hood (rich...@dakal.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> : In article <rereDCD...@netcom.com> re...@netcom.com "rere" writes:
>
> : > I've stated I am talking about US naturism. Ya'll are getting your own
> : > group because this is the US group ;-)....
>
> : Please tell me why you believe that Naturists in the US are any different
> : from Naturists here in the UK (or in France, Holland, Germany or anywhere
> : else for that matter). I thought the simple pleasure of going to a beach,
> : park or club, taking ones clothes off and relaxing in the sun was universal.
To be fair to re re, she said she was talking about "US naturism," not "US
naturists." The "simple pleasure" may be universal, but US culture -
specifically the puritan heritage - is different. "US naturists" may be
the same as naturists everywhere, but "US naturism" as a movement has to
adapt to the problems of the non-naturist side of US culture.
rere
to this and then I'll add whatever I have to add to it after you've
addressed these issues. Thanks. re re
rere (re...@netcom.com)
wrote: : woody(webe...@epix.net) (webe...@grape.epix.net) wrote:
: : On Wed, 26 Jul 1995, rere wrote:
: : > Date: Wed, 26 JUL 1995 01:53:37 GMT
: : > From: rere <re...@netcom.com>
: : > Newgroups: rec.nude
: : > Subject: Re: Swinger's Restort vs. Nudist Resort
: : >
: : > has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism when in fact it motivates many
: : > to get involved in the first place. Wife swapping is more than welcome in
snipped
Richard Linsley Hood
> Richard Linsley Hood (rich...@dakal.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>
> : In article <rereDCD...@netcom.com> re...@netcom.com "rere" writes:
>
> : > I've stated I am talking about US naturism. Ya'll are getting your own
> : > group because this is the US group ;-). True, I don't know what is going
> : > on over there, and I did state that, however the fact that H & E is the
> : > number
> : > one European naturist porn magazine (and not BN WHICH IS NOT PORN!) DOES
> : > make me wonder, but -- as I've said -- I am only talking about the US.
>
> : Please tell me why you believe that Naturists in the US are any different
> : from Naturists here in the UK (or in France, Holland, Germany or anywhere
> : else for that matter). I thought the simple pleasure of going to a beach,
> : park or club, taking ones clothes off and relaxing in the sun was universal.
>
> Cultures may vary, but ask holoferenes if there is a difference in US
> culture and yours. I think there might be but wouldn't venture where.
No I asked you. What I was tying to establish, and you deliberately ducked,
was if you believed the Naturist movement itself was wrong, or just the US
implementation of it, or indeeed just some members within the Naturist
movement.
I was not asking about culture, I was asking about Naturists and Naturism.
Richard Linsley Hood
ma...@mars.superlink.net "Martin Brilliant" writes:
> To be fair to re re, she said she was talking about "US naturism," not "US
> naturists." The "simple pleasure" may be universal, but US culture -
> specifically the puritan heritage - is different. "US naturists" may be
> the same as naturists everywhere, but "US naturism" as a movement has to
> adapt to the problems of the non-naturist side of US culture.
If you believe that the US is any more puritanical than the UK then I
suggest you visit here and find out. In general during my visits to the
US on business I found that there was about the same levels of hangups on
both sides of the 'pond'.
rere
: I have never been to Eureka. I don't 'keep quiet about Ereka'. I just
: plain and simple don't know. There is sleaze everywhere in this world. I'm
: sure the Vatican has its sleazer side. The major question is whether it is a
: large or fundamental part of the Naturist movement. In the UK it most
: certainly is not. I am fairly certain it is not in the US.
I think you have a responsibility to find out what is going on in
naturist camps in your country. And if it's a strip that is having
children's beauty pageants where nudist children are being
exploited you need to be doing something about it as the English naturist
movement. If you don't see that as a responsibility there's problems, yes.
: I wouldn't 'bother' you if you stopped posting such wild and inaccurate
: claims that the whole of the Naturist movement throughout the world is
: supportive of what is at best very small minority groups within in.
: Naturists in the UK (at least all the ones I have talked to) do not
: support: pedophiles, swinging, overt sexual behaviour in public,
: pornography, or a whole range of other things that you state we do.
: Your claims seems to be based purely on your own personal history in the US
From all I can cite about what I have personally witnessed and what
others have encountered and shared with me and what I have
researched in court records and newspaper accounts there is a fairly
damning case to be made against nudism/naturism and women's experiences
in it.
: with no regard given to the fact that there are an awfully large number
: of people out there who are supportive of your basic aims but slightly
: fed up with your disruptive tactics.
Lip service doesn't mean ANYthing to me. If they don't get their act
together and DO something within their own movement about their own kind
then their "support" for the issues doesn't mean zilch to me.
so much slime,
so little time,
re re
rere
: > Thanks. No matter how I say it or how people interpret it, I am talking
: > about this movement as a whole, not each person individually. I've got
: > lots of individual friends in this movement and there are some really
: > good people here. OVERALL some changes have GOT to be made.
: If you had said 'this movement in the US' then I would not be in a position
: to comment. By saying 'this movement as a whole' then you include all those
: of us in the rest of the world in your sweeping condemnations.
: Naturism, particularly in Europe, does not equate Nude with Lewd. You do.
: You appear to have problems with some people with the US, partially I
: understand from personal bad experiences. This smaller sub-set of the
: Naturist movement does not (and cannot) be equated to be particularly
: representative of the Naturist movement as a whole and possibly not even
: of the movement in the US.
: I still ask (and still am unable to get you to reply), is Naturism itself
: wrong, just the part of the movement in the US or just some people within
: the movement there?
Depends on what you mean by naturism. If you are talking about Fred
Bishoff's, Bill Fleshers, Ed Lange's, Dave Patrick's, Tim Wilcox's,
Jonathna Lynn's, -- MAN, DON't MAKE ME GO ON! -- then no. But I take nude
hot tubs with friends and I go to nude beaches. As a national movement,
if naturists don't change and start taking responsibility for the sleaze
elements within their midst then, yes, there is something wrong --
something badly wrong.
Why do you keep so quiet about Eureka? That's over there in your neck of
the woods. What give about that naturist club? What do you know about it?
Who are the men that you know who go to their events and make these
_wholesome_ (smirk) videos? It sounds like there is a sleazy element over
there and you are into denying it. If the movement is quiet about it and
goes there then I've got my gripes about organized naturism in England.
What about it? Does Eureka get heat from you guys, or do you just spend
your time bothering me? Just curious.
Richard Linsley Hood
> : I still ask (and still am unable to get you to reply), is Naturism itself
> : wrong, just the part of the movement in the US or just some people within
> : the movement there?
>
> Depends on what you mean by naturism. If you are talking about Fred
> Bishoff's, Bill Fleshers, Ed Lange's, Dave Patrick's, Tim Wilcox's,
> Jonathna Lynn's, -- MAN, DON't MAKE ME GO ON! -- then no. But I take nude
From that I take it that the problem is with people within the Naturist
movement in the US rather than the movement as a whole?
> Why do you keep so quiet about Eureka? That's over there in your neck of
> the woods. What give about that naturist club? What do you know about it?
> Who are the men that you know who go to their events and make these
> _wholesome_ (smirk) videos? It sounds like there is a sleazy element over
> there and you are into denying it. If the movement is quiet about it and
> goes there then I've got my gripes about organized naturism in England.
> What about it? Does Eureka get heat from you guys, or do you just spend
> your time bothering me? Just curious.
I have never been to Eureka. I don't 'keep quiet about Ereka'. I just
plain and simple don't know. There is sleaze everywhere in this world. I'm
sure the Vatican has its sleazer side. The major question is whether it is a
large or fundamental part of the Naturist movement. In the UK it most
certainly is not. I am fairly certain it is not in the US.
I wouldn't 'bother' you if you stopped posting such wild and inaccurate
claims that the whole of the Naturist movement throughout the world is
supportive of what is at best very small minority groups within in.
Naturists in the UK (at least all the ones I have talked to) do not
support: pedophiles, swinging, overt sexual behaviour in public,
pornography, or a whole range of other things that you state we do.
Your claims seems to be based purely on your own personal history in the US
with no regard given to the fact that there are an awfully large number
of people out there who are supportive of your basic aims but slightly
fed up with your disruptive tactics.
--
rere
: Richard Linsley Hood <rich...@dakal.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: > From my research the Naturist movement, in the UK at least, is in the
: > main free from those vices that you believe are endemic within the US
: > one. My experiences in Europe also seem to support this.
: I would certainly agree with you, most certainly from what I have seen
: both here in Vienna and in the States. The movement, if you insist on
: calling it one, is just as free of those vices that woman and too many
: of her accolytes believe to be rampant. They are not.
: Anyway, I tire of attempting to overcome invincible ignorance. (Not you,
: a rare voice of reason here.) I retire from the useless fray.
Remember this is the most reasonable naturist -- holoferenes -- who defends
H&D and nude beauty pageants. Ever been to Eureka, holoferenes?
Richard Linsley Hood
> Richard Linsley Hood (rich...@dakal.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>
> : I have never been to Eureka. I don't 'keep quiet about Ereka'. I just
> : plain and simple don't know. There is sleaze everywhere in this world. I'm
> : sure the Vatican has its sleazer side. The major question is whether it is a
> : large or fundamental part of the Naturist movement. In the UK it most
> : certainly is not. I am fairly certain it is not in the US.
>
> I think you have a responsibility to find out what is going on in
> naturist camps in your country. And if it's a strip that is having
> children's beauty pageants where nudist children are being
> exploited you need to be doing something about it as the English naturist
> movement. If you don't see that as a responsibility there's problems, yes.
Why? I don't go to Naturist camps. I go to Naturist beaches and a Naturist
Sauna/Swim. I, and most of the people I know at both, act as normal 'good
citizens' taking any action that we feel is appropriate in any given situation.
This includes, giving directions to strangers, helping with first aid, finding
lost children, discusing the weather, soaking up the sun, collecting litter,
etc, etc. I do not have the time to add to my life the requirement to visit
each and every Naturist club in the UK, vet it as to its policies, do a
background check to see if I am being lied to, personally check out all
those who run or attend it to see if they are 'fit for the purpose' and so
on.
> : I wouldn't 'bother' you if you stopped posting such wild and inaccurate
> : claims that the whole of the Naturist movement throughout the world is
> : supportive of what is at best very small minority groups within in.
> : Naturists in the UK (at least all the ones I have talked to) do not
> : support: pedophiles, swinging, overt sexual behaviour in public,
> : pornography, or a whole range of other things that you state we do.
>
> : Your claims seems to be based purely on your own personal history in the US
>
> From all I can cite about what I have personally witnessed and what
> others have encountered and shared with me and what I have
> researched in court records and newspaper accounts there is a fairly
> damning case to be made against nudism/naturism and women's experiences
> in it.
From my research the Naturist movement, in the UK at least, is in the
main free from those vices that you believe are endemic within the US
one. My experiences in Europe also seem to support this. I repeat (in case
you missed it):
Naturists (and the Naturist movement) in the UK do NOT support:
Pedophiles, swinging, overt sexual behaviour in public, pornography.
(is there anything I missed?).
> : with no regard given to the fact that there are an awfully large number
> : of people out there who are supportive of your basic aims but slightly
> : fed up with your disruptive tactics.
>
> Lip service doesn't mean ANYthing to me. If they don't get their act
> together and DO something within their own movement about their own kind
> then their "support" for the issues doesn't mean zilch to me.
On the contrary, without the support of, if not the majority then at the
very least a very substantial minority, no action you take will have any
effect what so ever. No movement has ever succeeded from the actions of
one person, but many have achieved success when persuasion has been used
to 'add' people to the cause. A reasonably accurate 'rule of thumb' is that
you need something like 4 'ordinary people' for each 'activist' if you are
to achieve your desired aims. Those 4 people have to be encouraged to join
you, not antagonised.
holofernes
> From my research the Naturist movement, in the UK at least, is in the
> main free from those vices that you believe are endemic within the US
> one. My experiences in Europe also seem to support this.
I would certainly agree with you, most certainly from what I have seen
holofernes
>
> Remember this is the most reasonable naturist -- holoferenes -- who defends
> H&D and nude beauty pageants. Ever been to Eureka, holoferenes?
A. It's H&E and doesn't need defending. Does quite nicely on its own.
Haven't seen a copy in many many months. Going to England tomorrow so
perhaps I'll pick up a copy and see what all the fuss is about. I need
some amusement.
B. Don't believe I ever mentioned nude beauty pageants. But so what?
What's wrong with them?
C. Eureka? Never heard of it. Guess I have not been paying close enough
attention. I have a life outside the Net.
Richard Linsley Hood
> holofernes (@unido.org) wrote:
> : I would certainly agree with you, most certainly from what I have seen
> : both here in Vienna and in the States. The movement, if you insist on
> : calling it one, is just as free of those vices that woman and too many
> : of her accolytes believe to be rampant. They are not.
>
> : Anyway, I tire of attempting to overcome invincible ignorance. (Not you,
> : a rare voice of reason here.) I retire from the useless fray.
>
> Remember this is the most reasonable naturist -- holoferenes -- who defends
> H&D and nude beauty pageants. Ever been to Eureka, holoferenes?
As he posts from a Austrian address it would seem unlikely. You managed
not to answer the fact that both he and I state that Naturism, as evidenced
in our countries, is basically free from the problems that you percieve you
have in the US.
I ask again. Do you believe that there is a problem with Naturism as a
whole, only with Naturism in the US or with a limited number of people within
Naturism over there?
DGrassi
> From all I can cite about what I have personally witnessed and what
others have encountered and shared with me and what I have
researched in court records and newspaper accounts there is a fairly
damning case to be made against nudism/naturism and women's experiences
in it.
Gee, why not take on the Church, seems a much larger problem.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Dan Grassi, DGr...@aol.com
Kevin Hunter
> Oh no! Naturism causes drug abuse! ;-)
It also causes a propensity for booger picking, too (no hankies or shirt
sleeves). Just wait... You may never think you'e be involved with something
like *that* but just wait. Soon someone on a Long Island nude beach will be
out snapping photos for a.b.p.v. and there you'll be. Nude on the internet
with your finger in your nose.
kev
GCNYC
Kevin Hunter
> I get the feeling that some people think that NUDITY == SEX and so any
> sexual hobby that anyone has (such as "swinging") is "proof" of this
> notion. It also might explain the fascination with the pedo subject.
>
> Frankly, I think that NUDITY == HAM RADIO. ;-)
No, no! Nudity=Boogers. ]}:-~{)
kev
GCNYC
t...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> re...@netcom.com (rere) writes:
>>Dean, you are coming in on the last decades of nudists claiming that sex
>>has NOTHING to do with nudism or naturism when in fact it motivates many
>>to get involved in the first place. Wife swapping is more than welcome in
>>the nudist/naturist lifestyle.
> re re, this is pure and unadulterated hogwash.
Are you surprised?
> I can't speak empirically to
> the first statement, but the second I can. Absolutely not true. Not saying
> it (swinging) doesn't exist at all, but it is *not* condoned by many.
> I was going to nude beaches *long* before I started swinging. I got involved
> with swinging due to my drug and alcohol use/abuse, *not* because of my
> nude beach attendance, or the lifestyle I adopted.
Oh no! Naturism causes drug abuse! ;-)
Terry
t...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> And there is also such an overlap between swinging and most other
> interests/memberships including Ham Radio, Church, NRA, etc.
> So what?
I get the feeling that some people think that NUDITY == SEX and so any
sexual hobby that anyone has (such as "swinging") is "proof" of this
notion. It also might explain the fascination with the pedo subject.
Frankly, I think that NUDITY == HAM RADIO. ;-)
Terry
t...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> I would guess that that's a half truth. I think a lot of people get
> interested in naturism, not exactly because they think it will get them
> actual active sex, but because they think the experience will be
> stimulating - call it "prurient interest" as in pornography.
> Then I think most of them find out that it's really different - it's not
> tittilating (not as much as they expected, anyway), it's relaxing,
> refreshing, liberating. It's a whole new way of feeling the world. And
> they like it.
AMEN BROTHER! PREACH THE TRUTH!
> Posting with pants on - for a change.
Forgive him Father, for he has sinned!
Terry
t...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> A. It's H&E and doesn't need defending. Does quite nicely on its own.
It's like abp.nudism: It doesn't represent what we, in rec.nude, call
naturism, but there's not much one can do about it. Folks wishing to
know what naturism is REALLY all about should TRY IT, not read about it.
Rec.nude can help you learn the ropes and can help prevent the obvious
newbie mistakes when visting a restort. Rec.nude can help you FIND that
resort, etc.
But the opinions expressed on rec.nude are just that -- opinions. Since
anyone can post here -- even NON NUDISTS -- you should take the opinions
on "pedos" or "swingers" (to name just two topics) with a grain of salt.
Terry
t...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> As he posts from a Austrian address it would seem unlikely. You managed
> not to answer the fact that both he and I state that Naturism, as evidenced
> in our countries, is basically free from the problems that you percieve you
> have in the US.
Perhaps they aren't problems in the US either?
Terry
Richard Linsley Hood
A radical thought indeed. Has anyone any proof of this though? I realise that
20 years of experience over here in the UK badly suits me to evaluate the
Naturist movement thoughout the world. It could be true that that whole thing
is just riddled with perverts looking for sexual thrills. On the other hand
it could be as innocent as visits to Studland beach seem to show.
Who knows?
rere
: > And there is also such an overlap between swinging and most other
: > interests/memberships including Ham Radio, Church, NRA, etc.
: > So what?
: I get the feeling that some people think that NUDITY == SEX and so any
: sexual hobby that anyone has (such as "swinging") is "proof" of this
: notion. It also might explain the fascination with the pedo subject.
To call people who identify those who are connecting to nudism because of
their sexual interests the ones who are confusing nudity with sex is
obfuscation.
so much slime,
so little time,
re re
--
** Re Re **
*****************PGP 2.6.2.*****************
Public Key fm pgp-pub...@pgp.ai.mit.edu
**********Subj: GET re...@netcom.com*********
Michael Moore's TV Nation is on Friday nights on FOX NOT NBC
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rere
: > Oh no! Naturism causes drug abuse! ;-)
: It also causes a propensity for booger picking, too (no hankies or shirt
: sleeves). Just wait... You may never think you'e be involved with something
: like *that* but just wait. Soon someone on a Long Island nude beach will be
: out snapping photos for a.b.p.v. and there you'll be. Nude on the internet
: with your finger in your nose.
: kev
: GCNYC
take it alt.booger.misc. yes, there is a new group with just that name
that I thought you especially needed to know about.
so much slime,
Chuck Fisher
rere wrote:
>take it alt.booger.misc. yes, there is a new group with just that name
>that I thought you especially needed to know about.
>so much slime,
Yes! re re's found her slime, and wouldn't you know it, it was
under her nose all the time!
Chuck "eewwwww, even I gotta wonder about myself" Fisher
averti
> t...@vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote:
> : In article <3v6gco$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, dgr...@aol.com (DGrassi) writes:
>
> : > And there is also such an overlap between swinging and most other
> : > interests/memberships including Ham Radio, Church, NRA, etc.
>
> : > So what?
>
> : I get the feeling that some people think that NUDITY == SEX and so any
> : sexual hobby that anyone has (such as "swinging") is "proof" of this
> : notion. It also might explain the fascination with the pedo subject.
>
> To call people who identify those who are connecting to nudism because of
> their sexual interests the ones who are confusing nudity with sex is
> obfuscation.
Is this an english sentence? 8)
How about people who are connecting to nudism because of mature,
consensual sexual interests (not including ``pedo-ness'')? That was
part of my original question--why is this newsgroup so bound up in
discussing sex crimes? Surely such things must be extremely rare in
organized nudism. Why the hollering?
And why the lumping together of benign, non-criminal activities (like
pictures of naked people in magazines, gasp) with the rape of children?
Something has gone real wrong, proportion-wise, with this group.
>
> so much slime,
> so little time,
> re re
> --
so many loons,
so few spoons,
averti
Mighty CheefDan!
: Oh no! Naturism causes drug abuse! ;-)
Well, that certainly would explain the decreased sex drive.
--
"The Animal Lovers' Home Page"
http://www.netaxs.com/~cheefdan/animals.html
t...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
than happy to take any example of anyone with their clothes off, call them
a nudist and use it to damn all of naturism.
Those of us who are naturists know what the real story is. We've been there.
Naturism is more than running around with your clothes off. You don't have
to be involved with a "national organization" to be one, either. Naturism
is a state of mind.
But we're not going to convince those who believe that "NUDITY == SEX" that
there aren't pedos behind every tree waiting to kidnap children and sell
them into slavery. So why bother to argue with these people? If they wish
to waste their time, let them. Use your kill files. Or sit on your hands.
They aren't interested in "helping" children. They are only interested in
using children to satisfy their hidden agenda of slamming naturism. To me,
this is a bad as those who prey, sexually, upon children.
I'm going to continue to turn "evil dooers" over the the FBI. I feel that
this is, by far, a more productive effort to help children than posting 30
year old articles to USENET. I'd urge all of you to do the same -- and I'd
urge you to ignore the flame bait being put out by a few that is designed
to keep YOU jumping up and down about this non-issue.
After all, haven't you seen ENOUGH on this subject to make up you own mind,
one way or the other?
'Nuff said?
Terry
David M. Stoner
> .... I'd
>urge you to ignore the flame bait being put out by a few that is designed
>to keep YOU jumping up and down about this non-issue.
>After all, haven't you seen ENOUGH on this subject to make up you own mind,
>one way or the other?
>'Nuff said?
>Terry
More than enough, six months ago. This is classic good advice, and I
confess I'm surprised more people on this forum haven't ignored the
flame bait.
I'd add this: If you can't ignore them, try answering politely, factually and
BRIEFLY. Try agreeing with them, to the extent possible. That will drive
them right up the wall.
-David
t...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> : Oh no! Naturism causes drug abuse! ;-)
> Well, that certainly would explain the decreased sex drive.
Hehehehe! I never thought of that!
When you read some of the articles posted here you have to chuckle. Naturism
is accused of causing all sorts of ills. Everything from drug abuse to
the dissapearance of Elvis. ;-)
It's amazing what the non-naturists "know" about naturism!
Terry
Cozmo
>
>When you read some of the articles posted here you have to chuckle. Naturism
>is accused of causing all sorts of ills. Everything from drug abuse to
>the dissapearance of Elvis. ;-)
>
Ya know, Hoot and I were in a fast food place just the other day and
the guy that took our order looked amazingly like....... nah, couldn't be.
Natch, Coz & Hoot