Terminology: Flatted vs. Flattened?

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Michael Crutcher

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Sep 16, 2019, 10:22:28 PM9/16/19
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So, I keep coming across internet discussions about music that make reference to notes being "flattened" or "sharpened." Is it me, or is this the wrong nomenclature? Shouldn't this be "flatted" or "sharped"?

J. Van Thuyne

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Sep 17, 2019, 12:08:13 PM9/17/19
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On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 19:22:26 -0700 (PDT), Michael Crutcher <funkmei...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So, I keep coming across internet discussions about music that make reference to notes being "flattened" or "sharpened." Is it me, or is this the wrong nomenclature? Shouldn't this be "flatted" or "sharped"?

Yeah, Merriam-Webster defines "to flat; flatted; flatting" as a verb for lowering a pitch, and "to sharp; sharped; sharping" for raising a pitch. It doesn't assign that meaning to "to flatten" or "to sharpen".

--
J.

steve...@gmail.com

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Sep 17, 2019, 4:34:28 PM9/17/19
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+1

Joey Goldstein

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Sep 18, 2019, 10:53:56 AM9/18/19
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On 2019-09-16 10:22 p.m., Michael Crutcher wrote:
> So, I keep coming across internet discussions about music that make reference to notes being "flattened" or "sharpened." Is it me, or is this the wrong nomenclature? Shouldn't this be "flatted" or "sharped"?
>

Who cares?

ttw...@att.net

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Sep 19, 2019, 12:26:41 AM9/19/19
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On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 9:22:28 PM UTC-5, Michael Crutcher wrote:
> So, I keep coming across internet discussions about music that make reference to notes being "flattened" or "sharpened." Is it me, or is this the wrong nomenclature? Shouldn't this be "flatted" or "sharped"?

I have seen both the "ened" and the "ed" forms. Both are easy to understand so no problem.

Michael Crutcher

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Sep 19, 2019, 12:46:14 AM9/19/19
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I just think it sounds stupid when someone refers to a "sharpened" note. It's not a friggin' pencil, it's a note.

Michael Crutcher

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Sep 19, 2019, 12:50:14 AM9/19/19
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I've seen people say "should of" a lot, too. I know what they mean, but it doesn't mean that they're not ignorant.

Joey Goldstein

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Sep 19, 2019, 10:39:12 AM9/19/19
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FWIW
Most of the time I just say "flat" or "Sharp".
E.g. "It's a b9."
"It's a #5."
"Flat that fifth."
"Curiously, for sharps, I'd usually say "It's a raised fifth" or "Raise
that fifth" rather than "Sharp that fifth" or "Sharpen that fifth."
Etc.

What really matters is that the other musicians you're talking to
understand what you're saying.

steve...@gmail.com

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Sep 19, 2019, 4:42:35 PM9/19/19
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Totally agree. When everyone knows what's correct, it's a luxury, and it makes communication very pleasant. I'm surprised at some of the responses here that don't seem interested in correctness.

Michael Crutcher

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Sep 19, 2019, 5:50:41 PM9/19/19
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Well, it's why we have language. If we used the same word for every subject, e.g., "I drove my pick down to the pick so that I could buy some picks to bring back to my pick, and then my family could sit down to eat pick", you'd probably be able to figure out what I meant, but it's a helluva lot more mental energy to translate. Yes, it's confusing to use the word "flat" to mean lowered in pitch as well as smooth and even without marked lumps or indentations but although they are same word, they should not be iterated the same way. A note is not squashed down to a different shape; it is lowered innpitc, therefore flatted.

ttw...@att.net

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Sep 19, 2019, 8:29:13 PM9/19/19
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Color terms do funny things with the "en" ending. Things get whitened, reddened, blackened, but not bluened or yellowened. (Some linguists suggest that the en forms are older.)

After some perusing things, I find that using "flat" and "sharp" as adjectives is also done. This allows for a dominant chord with a flattened fifth, a flatted fifth, or a flat fifth.
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