LJS - You silly little man.
Joey Goldstein
I still see your snippets of your posts when other people here quote you
in their posts.
I can also access this newsgroup on the Web via GoogleGroups which still
allows me to see what you've written.
I sometimes use GoogleGroups when I'm away from my home computer at one
of the 2 colleges I teach at.
So...
Me seeing your posts has nothing to do with whether I'm honest or not,
you boob. (BTW Notice the spelling of "whether" in this usage... It's
not 'weather', like you do it.)
Not only do you not understand what people are saying here in the
various posts you attempt to contribute to, you don't even understand
the medium in which you are trying to participate, usenet.
You've been posting here for a couple of years now.
Are you really that slow? Did you really need me to explain this to you?
2. I've made no value judgments on any of the music that has been cited
recently. You're imagining what you think I'm saying rather than reading
what I'm actually saying.
I don't think hymns suck, for example. What ever gave you that idea?
For some stupid reason you're jealous of me and the status that you
perceive me having in this newsgroup. Well, I have no staus here. I just
post what I think is the truth and let the rest of you make up your own
minds. There's no reason for you always trying to take me a down a peg.
I know you think that you make logical arguments against my ideas, but
you're really living in a dream world. You never even know what I'm
actually talking about.
I haven't kill filed you because I don't like you. I've kill filed you
because conversing with you is impossible and attempts at doing so have
always been extremely tedious. I'd rather not bother with you most of
the time.
That's all.
3. I was being sarcastic with my comment about you being the Fox News of
rmt. The fact that you didn't 'get' this just points up what I've always
said about you, namely, that you don't 'get' anything.
4. Good-bye.
--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://homepage.mac.com/josephgoldstein/AudioClips/audio.htm>
joegold AT primus DOT ca
LJS
> 1. Even though I have you kill-filed in my usenet news-reading software,
> I still see your snippets of your posts when other people here quote you
> in their posts.
> I can also access this newsgroup on the Web via GoogleGroups which still
> allows me to see what you've written.
> I sometimes use GoogleGroups when I'm away from my home computer at one
> of the 2 colleges I teach at.
So just as I said in a previous post, your kill file BS was a lie!
(why didn't I think of that? lol)
> So...
> Me seeing your posts has nothing to do with whether I'm honest or not,
> you boob. (BTW Notice the spelling of "whether" in this usage... It's
> not 'weather', like you do it.)
Oh, my. You caught me. I did not predict the semantic argument with
spell check mistakes! lol the dishonesty is the very nature of your
threat to kill-file someone! You just admitted it in public. What more
can be said.
> Not only do you not understand what people are saying here in the
> various posts you attempt to contribute to, you don't even understand
> the medium in which you are trying to participate, usenet.
> You've been posting here for a couple of years now.
> Are you really that slow? Did you really need me to explain this to you?
I understand that you make stupid comments and try to bully people on
this net and pretend to understand classical theory. You constant
affirm my understanding. Its you personal attacks and down right lying
and your stupid cover-ups (I hesitate to call them cover-ups because
you might just be foolish enough to actually NOT see the stupidity of
some of your comments! That would be really sad.)
The user net is to exchange information. If mis-information is
presented and left un-corrected, then it is useless. You seem to think
that it is a place for you to pretend to know what you are talking
about. classical music is NOT one of your strong points. Take the
Bloom challenge if you don't believe me. Test yourself on the 6 steps
of understanding in Classical Music Theory in the privacy of your own
home. You may learn something about yourself.
>
> 2. I've made no value judgments on any of the music that has been cited
> recently. You're imagining what you think I'm saying rather than reading
> what I'm actually saying.
> I don't think hymns suck, for example. What ever gave you that idea?
I quoted YOUR comments in your "satire" about how we are saying that
one should strive for unimaginative and weak melodies. That was a
satire wasn't it? To me that is saying that the entire body of
Anglican music is less than very good. The truth is, however, that
this music has been proven to last. It is quoted all the time, it is
used for models of other melodies and they are a big part of the
standards used by theorists to define what good melody is. Your
comments strongly imply that tunes like O Canada, Amazing Grace, and
thousands of other standards to the entire western world is crap. THAT
is what you have been saying and that is what the discussion is about.
If you don't understand HOW you have been saying that, well that is
really sad.
>
> For some stupid reason you're jealous of me and the status that you
> perceive me having in this newsgroup. Well, I have no staus here. I just
> post what I think is the truth and let the rest of you make up your own
> minds. There's no reason for you always trying to take me a down a peg.
> I know you think that you make logical arguments against my ideas, but
> you're really living in a dream world. You never even know what I'm
> actually talking about.
> I haven't kill filed you because I don't like you. I've kill filed you
> because conversing with you is impossible and attempts at doing so have
> always been extremely tedious. I'd rather not bother with you most of
> the time.
> That's all.
Lol, if only! Joey, I am happy for you if you have found a niche in
life where your talents can give you a nice living but jealous? lol
You flatter yourself waay out of reality. I have taught in more of a
true college position than you are holding. I have had more education.
I have performed and made a living in more genres than you can
possibly imagine and I have lived and taught all over the world. I am
currently at a position where I can and I am making a difference while
I am myself recovering from a great disaster. My house is being
rebuilt much better than before and is on the verge of starting the
finishing details for completion. This will restore all the retirement
losses that I suffered from the storm. I have done exactly what I have
wanted to do for my entire life (to this point at least) I have a
beautiful and talented family, I have helped many students to find
their way through music, and along with a few others in this group,
there has been a lot fewer 'troll' type type postings and totally
fabricated arguments from at least the time that I have been posting
to this group. The quality of help has improved a bit as well during
this time.
I can come an go as I please. I am not locked into any fixed location
and I have exercised this option to live in places where many don't
even have an opportunity to visit. But the main thing is that I can
listen to music, understand it and actually know what is going on in
it. If someone doesn't I can tell them at least one way to understand
a lot of things going on. AND the most important part is that I will
back it up! and if I misunderstand something or make a mistake, I can
admit it. BUT the most important thing is I can tell the difference!
If you learned only that one part of this, you would be a much better
musician and teacher.
What is it that you have that I should be jealous of? I have
everything I ever wanted! I have taught privately. Its nice. For me,
its nice for a while. Then it gets to be a little but of a routine or
what we sometimes call a rut. Its valid and if you want to do that,
fine. Its a great profession. Is it something I would be jealous of? I
don't think so.
Being a big fish in a little pond? Nope. I have been that. Its fine. I
have been that fish in many more genres than you can imagine.
Composing music? I have done this and studied this and analyzed this.
I have heard your tunes on the web. Quite frankly, I would think that
the few things that I have done are maybe a bit more artistic than
your and that is why I don't really try to do it so much, it is only
somewhat better than yours. That is not good enough for me. I have
moments of true artistic creativity. I also don't have the drive to
cultivate it to the level needed to be an artist and I don't like to
write crap, so I don't really do that much writing. Occasionally I
might. And I reaffirm that I can do it but don't want to work that
hard and consistently on that particular aspect of music. That doesn't
seem to bother you and that is fine. You have your own life and I
don't care how you choose to live it. Except when you come into my
range of experience and then misquote me, put words into my mouth, try
to change what you said and follow all your other BS to try to bully
out and confuse people enough that they think you know everything. I
can assure you that those that know are not buying it. You COULD be a
lot better on music theory if you tried, but since you learned
everything that there was before you dropped out of Berklee and you
started to find a group of people that will agree that you know
everything you show no signs of learning the things necessary to put
the pieces together in music theory. Sorry Joey, this totality of the
subject and the understanding of how it all fits together is not in
the pudding. You prove it by the very nature of the things that you
choose to comment upon and the examples that you use. It just shows
that you did not learn how it all fits. The only bad aspects of this
is that you don't know this, you don't care about this and you seem to
want to prevent anyone else from discovering this. Jealous? Really,
don't flatter yourself.
>
> 3. I was being sarcastic with my comment about you being the Fox News of
> rmt. The fact that you didn't 'get' this just points up what I've always
> said about you, namely, that you don't 'get' anything.
I got it all right. Your satire (a related form of sarcasism, for
those that don't relate my response to the whole picture) was just ass
backwards. You picked the absolute worse example. Fox changes context
to spin other people's statements. And to distort the truth and then
tries to cover up their spinning and lack of true research, knowledge
and understanding. They are just spin doctors. In my day they called
it propaganda. Does that sound familiar to you? It should. It is your
published MO.
>
> 4. Good-bye.
>
> --
> Joey Goldstein
> <http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
> <http://homepage.mac.com/josephgoldstein/AudioClips/audio.htm>
> joegold AT primus DOT ca
Well we all heard that before. Good bye! The first time it means
something. Then with each utterance it sort of diminishes its meaning
and expectations. I tell you what. Take your own personal Bloom's
Taxonomy test on the Hymns. Write down your thoughts on these 6
levels of thought with these same hymns and see how you fare with
them. If you need help deciphering them, you can mail me privately and
I will help you out. relate the hymns to music in general and see how
they can be analyzed and what there is to learn and how to learn it as
well as the What If questions and then take the lower levels and see
how they relate when you combine them with the frameworks used in
Jazz. THEN come back and tell us about it. Any sign of the concept of
Continuing Education (something that is required of all real
professors and teachers!) would allow me to take you seriously as a
theorist. As it stands, my last few posts stand on your own words to
which I responded.
LJS.
ps. you comments on Giant Steps showed me an even higher level of mis-
understanding than even I imagined could be coming from you.
Joey Goldstein
>> 1. Even though I have you kill-filed in my usenet news-reading software,
>> I still see your snippets of your posts when other people here quote you
>> in their posts.
>> I can also access this newsgroup on the Web via GoogleGroups which still
>> allows me to see what you've written.
>> I sometimes use GoogleGroups when I'm away from my home computer at one
>> of the 2 colleges I teach at.
>
> (why didn't I think of that? lol)
Still don't get it.
I guess that was predictable.
>> Not only do you not understand what people are saying here in the
>> various posts you attempt to contribute to, you don't even understand
>> the medium in which you are trying to participate, usenet.
>> You've been posting here for a couple of years now.
>> Are you really that slow? Did you really need me to explain this to you?
>
> I understand that you make stupid comments and try to bully people on
> this net
"This net"?
Lol.
> and pretend to understand classical theory.
I understand basic classical Tonal harmony.
I make no claims of a higher understanding of classical music or of
classical musical theories.
You, on the other hand, make grandiose claims of your musical prowess,
your higher education and your superior moral makeup.
Yet nearly every post where you've ever attempted to participate in here
has been filled with mistakes and misinformation, that is when you've
actually tried to contribute information rather than just rambling on
and on about nonsense like you did in this post I'm replying to.
You've also made claims of your prowess in other musical idioms as well,
including jazz, yet everything you've ever said about jazz music has
been wrong.
Why would *anybody* here ever take you seriously about *anything*?
> The user net is to exchange information. If mis-information is
> presented and left un-corrected, then it is useless.
So stop posting!!!
>> 2. I've made no value judgments on any of the music that has been cited
>> recently. You're imagining what you think I'm saying rather than reading
>> what I'm actually saying.
>> I don't think hymns suck, for example. What ever gave you that idea?
>
> I quoted YOUR comments
No, you didn't.
You made no reference to my comments to link them to your comments.
All you did was to include the text from my post in your reply.
And my comments do not support your stupid little irrelevant theory that
I hate hymns.
> in your "satire" about how we are saying that
> one should strive for unimaginative and weak melodies. That was a
> satire wasn't it?
It was a satirical response to something JR had said earlier about how
his congregation doesn't like surprises.
But, of course, you didn't get that.
> To me that is saying that the entire body of
> Anglican music is less than very good.
Well that's a pretty big leap there dude.
Maybe making leaps like that is one reason why you don't understand
*anything*.
> The truth is, however, that
> this music has been proven to last. It is quoted all the time, it is
> used for models of other melodies and they are a big part of the
> standards used by theorists to define what good melody is.
All very nice, but irrelevant.
> Your
> comments strongly imply that tunes like O Canada, Amazing Grace, and
> thousands of other standards to the entire western world is crap.
My comments imply no such thing.
You are fabricating what you think I'm thinking.
You're in a fantasy world.
>> For some stupid reason you're jealous of me and the status that you
>> perceive me having in this newsgroup. Well, I have no staus here. I just
>> post what I think is the truth and let the rest of you make up your own
>> minds. There's no reason for you always trying to take me a down a peg.
>> I know you think that you make logical arguments against my ideas, but
>> you're really living in a dream world. You never even know what I'm
>> actually talking about.
>> I haven't kill filed you because I don't like you. I've kill filed you
>> because conversing with you is impossible and attempts at doing so have
>> always been extremely tedious. I'd rather not bother with you most of
>> the time.
>> That's all.
>
> Lol, if only! Joey, I am happy for you if you have found a niche in
> life where your talents can give you a nice living
Thanks.
> but jealous?
Yep.
> lol
> You flatter yourself waay out of reality.
No. *You* worry about me way out of reality.
> I have taught in more of a
> true college position than you are holding.
That's too bad, for your students.
All I teach at college is jazz guitar btw.
I also have a jazz ensemble that I coach.
> I have had more education.
I know.
That's why it's so sad that you don't know anything about music.
> I have performed and made a living in more genres than you can
> possibly imagine and I have lived and taught all over the world.
Good for you.
I don't believe you, but good for you anyway!
> I am
> currently at a position where I can and I am making a difference
Making a difference? For whom?
> while
> I am myself recovering from a great disaster. My house is being
> rebuilt much better than before and is on the verge of starting the
> finishing details for completion. This will restore all the retirement
> losses that I suffered from the storm. I have done exactly what I have
> wanted to do for my entire life (to this point at least) I have a
> beautiful and talented family,
All very interesting, but irrelevant.
Hope you get your house built though.
> I have helped many students to find
> their way through music,
You think you've helped them.
I think maybe not.
> and along with a few others in this group,
> there has been a lot fewer 'troll' type type postings and totally
> fabricated arguments from at least the time that I have been posting
> to this group. The quality of help has improved a bit as well during
> this time.
Oh, you've been a big benefit to the group. (That's sarcasm again, in
case you didn't get it, again.)
Margo, Matt, Steve, Ian, et al hardly ever post here anymore, if at all.
And although I only know of one other regular besides me who also has
you kill-filed I'm guessing there's more.
> I can come an go as I please. I am not locked into any fixed location
> and I have exercised this option to live in places where many don't
> even have an opportunity to visit.
Who gives a shit?
Why do you think that anybody here would want to read this?
> But the main thing is that I can
> listen to music, understand it and actually know what is going on in
> it.
I think you're fooling yourself.
> If someone doesn't I can tell them at least one way to understand
> a lot of things going on.
Actually, no you can't.
> AND the most important part is that I will
> back it up!
But you never have.
> and if I misunderstand something or make a mistake, I can
> admit it.
I'll believe it when I see it.
> BUT the most important thing is I can tell the difference!
Lol.
> What is it that you have that I should be jealous of?
I have no idea.
So stop it already.
> You have your own life and I
> don't care how you choose to live it. Except when you come into my
> range of experience and then misquote me, put words into my mouth,
I've never had to do that.
You do a great job of sabotaging yourself.
> try
> to change what you said and follow all your other BS to try to bully
> out and confuse people enough that they think you know everything.
Anybody who thinks I know everything is an idiot.
I can be a bully sometimes.
Better to be a bully who's correct than someone who thinks he's a nice
guy, like you, who's actually a malevolent deluded self-absorbed idiot, IMO.
> I
> can assure you that those that know are not buying it.
It must tear you up you then that I generally have more respect here
from more people than you do.
How do you rationalize that?
Ah... You can't. So you get jealous and try to take me down.
> You COULD be a
> lot better on music theory if you tried,
True.
Yet evidently you have tried, and very hard too, yet you don't get any
of it.
It's really quite sad. Vexing too.
> but since you learned
> everything that there was before you dropped out of Berklee
I've learned quite a bit since getting out school, unlike yourself.
> and you
> started to find a group of people that will agree that you know
> everything
People who agree with me do so on the strengths of my assertions.
Unlike yourself I do not participate in discussions that are over my
head or about something of which I know nothing, unless I'm asking
questions.
You're like that Kristen Wiig character on SNL who always interrupts
anyone who's talking, interjecting her own inane self-flattering
nonsense in a fit of ecstatic narcissism.
> you show no signs of learning the things necessary to put
> the pieces together in music theory.
Look up the word "projection" as it applies to psychology.
>> 3. I was being sarcastic with my comment about you being the Fox News of
>> rmt. The fact that you didn't 'get' this just points up what I've always
>> said about you, namely, that you don't 'get' anything.
>
> I got it all right.
No. You didn't.
> ps. you comments on Giant Steps showed me an even higher level of mis-
> understanding than even I imagined could be coming from you.
Do go on.
LJS
I don't worry about you. You flatter yourself again. I correct your
most stupid statements. Period. Other than that, I could care less
about you. Maybe a bit for some students that might ONLY have you to
guide them. But you? Don't flatter yourself.
>
> > I have taught in more of a
> > true college position than you are holding.
Are you tenured? Are you certified? Congratulations! You didn't inform
us of your advanced study and these certifications.
>
> That's too bad, for your students.
> All I teach at college is jazz guitar btw.
> I also have a jazz ensemble that I coach.
Great. How does that affect my students? Not at all.
>
> > I have had more education.
>
> I know.
> That's why it's so sad that you don't know anything about music.
Retorts without any backup, typical.
>
> > I have performed and made a living in more genres than you can
> > possibly imagine and I have lived and taught all over the world.
>
> Good for you.
> I don't believe you, but good for you anyway!
Ignore the truth about me. That hurts no one. It is your ignoring the
truth and depth concerning music that is a problem for students when
their teacher holds that position.
>
> > I am
> > currently at a position where I can and I am making a difference
>
> Making a difference? For whom?
Students. Not for my personal ego.
>
> > while
> > I am myself recovering from a great disaster. My house is being
> > rebuilt much better than before and is on the verge of starting the
> > finishing details for completion. This will restore all the retirement
> > losses that I suffered from the storm. I have done exactly what I have
> > wanted to do for my entire life (to this point at least) I have a
> > beautiful and talented family,
>
> All very interesting, but irrelevant.
> Hope you get your house built though.
>
> > I have helped many students to find
> > their way through music,
>
> You think you've helped them.
> I think maybe not.
>
> > and along with a few others in this group,
> > there has been a lot fewer 'troll' type type postings and totally
> > fabricated arguments from at least the time that I have been posting
> > to this group. The quality of help has improved a bit as well during
> > this time.
>
> Oh, you've been a big benefit to the group. (That's sarcasm again, in
> case you didn't get it, again.)
> Margo, Matt, Steve, Ian, et al hardly ever post here anymore, if at all.
> And although I only know of one other regular besides me who also has
> you kill-filed I'm guessing there's more.
Well, I guess they have seen some of the problems with the contexts in
this group. Margo rarely posts unless we are talking about he quarter
tone scales and no one has brought it up. Matt stated that he was
busy, if I remember correctly and as I also remember that he was
already very low with the posting before I started to post. Steve has
claimed that you were very important to his learning Jazz. That is a
plus for you. I have seen him echo the same arguments (remember the
cadential 6/4 chords?) but to no avail. Apparently you can "teach"
what you know, but you have to improve your skills on the learning of
the classical theory. I followed that thread quite carefully and you
just would not believe him and argued with him as much as with me and
still did not learn what was being said. That said, Steve still needs
to learn more about the "non classical guitar" aspects of higher
theory. He does seem to be learning it but my impression is that he is
more interested in jazz chord types than the important things to be up
on the correct contexts and various approaches that have been used in
music over the ages. He seems to be learning but has a few hangups on
a few subjects. If he does look into Bloom, then he would correct
this. I have seen him learn some things. I would hope that in his
continuing education and his job at OD that he is simply busy and that
he is spending much of his net time in the guitar groups. If he wants
to be only a chord context theorist, that is his choice. It seems as
though he is trying to put that into perspective. Ian has some good
ideas and approaches and I seem to remember that he comes and goes
somehow related to the things that he runs across.
And did I say that I was solely responsible for the increase. NO I
did not. That is your false claim about me. You just make these things
up.
>
> > I can come an go as I please. I am not locked into any fixed location
> > and I have exercised this option to live in places where many don't
> > even have an opportunity to visit.
>
> Who gives a shit?
> Why do you think that anybody here would want to read this?
you did! and after saying "good bye" even.
>
> > But the main thing is that I can
> > listen to music, understand it and actually know what is going on in
> > it.
>
> I think you're fooling yourself.
>
> > If someone doesn't I can tell them at least one way to understand
> > a lot of things going on.
>
> Actually, no you can't.
again, maybe you can't but you are the exception. Most people can. and
have. Just like Ripley's Believe it or Don't.
>
> > AND the most important part is that I will
> > back it up!
>
> But you never have.
None are so blind as those that refuse to see!
>
> > and if I misunderstand something or make a mistake, I can
> > admit it.
>
> I'll believe it when I see it.
I guess you don't read the posts very well. It is all in the
archives!
>
> > BUT the most important thing is I can tell the difference!
>
> Lol.
>
> > What is it that you have that I should be jealous of?
>
> I have no idea.
> So stop it already.
>
> > You have your own life and I
> > don't care how you choose to live it. Except when you come into my
> > range of experience and then misquote me, put words into my mouth,
>
> I've never had to do that.
> You do a great job of sabotaging yourself.
You always change the context and spin. Read the other posts. Most are
more polite than I am, but they are telling you the same thing Joey.
Wake up!
>
> > try
> > to change what you said and follow all your other BS to try to bully
> > out and confuse people enough that they think you know everything.
>
> Anybody who thinks I know everything is an idiot.
Since you are the one that always claims to be right and don't
understand how there can be another viewpoint, what is this statement
saying about you Joey. lol (maybe it is an ESL thing? Were you reared
speaking French?)
> I can be a bully sometimes.
> Better to be a bully who's correct than someone who thinks he's a nice
> guy, like you, who's actually a malevolent deluded self-absorbed idiot, IMO.
Yes, but it is your Opinion that is in question. It is YOUR opinion
that the Hymns are not interesting and that they did not fit the terms
of the posts! That is YOUR opinion. Not mine, not JRL NOT anyone's
except yours. I agree that opinion has nothing to do with the blatant
gaffs that you spouted as truth in this thread, but since you brought
it up. I can't make you understand what you said. But it is in the
posts. If people want to believe it, I can't change the world. I can,
however, state the truth. Not the Joeyism, but the truth. If you don't
understand and do not want to learn, that is your choice.
>
> > I
> > can assure you that those that know are not buying it.
>
> It must tear you up you then that I generally have more respect here
> from more people than you do.
> How do you rationalize that?
I don't have to rationalize. The truth it out there. Its in the
archives. Find someone that knows something and let them read your
statements. See what you get.
> Ah... You can't. So you get jealous and try to take me down.
I never try to take you down. I point out your misunderstandings. If
that "takes you down" then you have a deep problem. I can only show
you the path, I can't make you learn.
>
> > You COULD be a
> > lot better on music theory if you tried,
>
> True.
> Yet evidently you have tried, and very hard too, yet you don't get any
> of it.
I don't like to get into semantic errors, but " I have tried" to show
you your mistakes and I don't get any of it? There is something there
that just doesn't make sense. Yes, it is true that you COULD be better
at music theory. But it is you that do not try and that is why you are
very static with your learning and you have not addressed the
omissions that you had in your educational life. There are things that
we did not cover in school. I went back and picked up these things. If
you have tried to do this, you are on the right track but apparently
you need to reevaluate what you know and don't know so that you can
continue to progress.
> It's really quite sad. Vexing too.
>
> > but since you learned
> > everything that there was before you dropped out of Berklee
>
> I've learned quite a bit since getting out school, unlike yourself.
More unfounded statements and no backup. Talk is cheap. Give us an
example and show how it is possible for the cadential 6/4 chord to be
explained with the Harmonic Series. Start with which Harmonic series
are at play and how they relate to the cadence. Even if you don't
agree with my presentation, if you understand the concept you should
be able to explain it. I tried to show you, Steve tried to show you
and if that is not enough, I would think that with both of us trying
to explain it to you, that if you still did not understand that you
would certainly do some research, ask people or something. A decent
answer would be the only support that you have EVER given to support
one of your statements. So if you have been learning, tell us what you
have learned.
I don't expect you to know anything, but this was a bit discussion.
You MUST have learned something if your statements about your
continuing education are true.
>
> > and you
> > started to find a group of people that will agree that you know
> > everything
>
> People who agree with me do so on the strengths of my assertions.
> Unlike yourself I do not participate in discussions that are over my
> head or about something of which I know nothing, unless I'm asking
> questions.
Laughable if it was not so sad. Have someone else read your posts and
see if they see it the same way that you do. Try someone that is not
dependent on your giving them a grade or approval. Try someone in the
English department. See if they agree with the statements you made in
this thread. Don't believe me, try it on some other people.
> You're like that Kristen Wiig character on SNL who always interrupts
> anyone who's talking, interjecting her own inane self-flattering
> nonsense in a fit of ecstatic narcissism.
>
> > you show no signs of learning the things necessary to put
> > the pieces together in music theory.
>
> Look up the word "projection" as it applies to psychology.
lol, look up the facts about the thread. You can project your opinion
as much as you want. Its the validity of your statements that have
been in error. maybe you did learn that there ARE one note per chord
Hymns. If you did it would be a start, but that doesn't change the
fact that you made them and re made them and insisted that they were
correct. Now after it is obvious that you were in error, you start
with the personal things and then take make up other arguments that
you use as talking points. Well, we have enough Spin doctors in the
US. You are no match for them. if you are trying to get into that
game, you have to know how far you can stretch the truth to get away
with it. You have not mastered that.
>
> >> 3. I was being sarcastic with my comment about you being the Fox News of
> >> rmt. The fact that you didn't 'get' this just points up what I've always
> >> said about you, namely, that you don't 'get' anything.
>
> > I got it all right.
>
> No. You didn't.
I pointed out the satire in the initial response? You can read can't
you?
>
> > ps. you comments on Giant Steps showed me an even higher level of mis-
> > understanding than even I imagined could be coming from you.
>
> Do go on.
OK, after you realized that Giant Steps does literally follow the
rules set forth in the thread you add the extra condition of "Oh yes,
but there are solos in between and they don't follow these rules so
this is not true either" If you can't see that this is less than an
honest retort, well, what more can be said.
LJS
Oh yes. I though you said "goodbye". I guess you just forgot.
Joey Goldstein joegold AT sympatico DOT ca (I never use my yahoo email account)
> On Oct 22, 1:34 am, Joey Goldstein <nos...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> > > I have taught in more of a
> > > true college position than you are holding.
>
> Are you tenured? Are you certified? Congratulations! You didn't inform
> us of your advanced study and these certifications.
I hope you realize that you're talking to yourself here. lol
> > > I have had more education.
>
> > I know.
> > That's why it's so sad that you don't know anything about music.
>
> Retorts without any backup, typical.
My comment is backed up by every post you've ever made here.
> > > I am
> > > currently at a position where I can and I am making a difference
>
> > Making a difference? For whom?
>
> Students.
i hope not. Any student listening to you is getting misinformation.
At least you explain it badly too, so they still might have some
chance.
> > Oh, you've been a big benefit to the group. (That's sarcasm again, in
> > case you didn't get it, again.)
> > Margo, Matt, Steve, Ian, et al hardly ever post here anymore, if at all.
> > And although I only know of one other regular besides me who also has
> > you kill-filed I'm guessing there's more.
>
> Well, I guess they have seen some of the problems with the contexts in
> this group.
"Problems with the contexts".
I see. Yes, that must be it.
> Steve has
> claimed that you were very important to his learning Jazz.
You can't learn jazz by talking on a newsgroup.
But I'm glad if I've helped Steve with certain concepts because he's
also helped me.
When Steve, unlike yourself, disagrees with me he makes sense and I
listen.
he's a bright intelligent and openminded person with lots of musical
training and. presumably, experience.
You're a delusional boob.
> That is a
> plus for you. I have seen him echo the same arguments
has's echoed *your* arguments?
I think not.
> (remember the
> cadential 6/4 chords?)
Yes. I do.
Steve understands my position.
Steve understands the traditional position as well.
As far as the acoustical root of a 2nd inv triad is concerned he
agrees with me.
As far as the OTS *not* being the basis for the traditional treatment
of 2nd inversion chords, he agrees with me.
But of course *you* didn't get that, because you don't get anything.
> I followed that thread quite carefully
Yet with no comprehension.
> and you
> just would not believe him
I totally understand everything he said in his descriptions of the
reasons why classical composers approached those chords the way they
did. But i do disagree with that reasoning. So does he, btw.
Steve doesn't think the OTS has anything to do with it.
Like me, he believes that the treatment of the P4th interval of a 2nd
inv chord was really treated as a dissonance because of stylistic
preferences, not some objective fact having to do with the OTS. That's
because invoking the OTS to explain this treatment of 2nd inv chords
is untenable.
Steve. Feel free to chime in here if I am misrepresenting your
position.
But that's the way I remember it.
But of course that's not what you got out of it, because you don't get
anything.
> and argued with him as much as with me and
> still did not learn what was being said. That said, Steve still needs
> to learn more about the "non classical guitar" aspects of higher
> theory.
> He does seem to be learning it but my impression is that he is
> more interested in jazz chord types than the important things to be up
> on the correct contexts and various approaches that have been used in
> music over the ages. He seems to be learning but has a few hangups on
> a few subjects. If he does look into Bloom, then he would correct
> this. I have seen him learn some things. I would hope that in his
> continuing education and his job at OD that he is simply busy and that
> he is spending much of his net time in the guitar groups. If he wants
> to be only a chord context theorist, that is his choice. It seems as
> though he is trying to put that into perspective. Ian has some good
> ideas and approaches and I seem to remember that he comes and goes
> somehow related to the things that he runs across.
You pompous ignorant know-nothing delusional fool.
Orangeboxman
Olympics.
LJS
> Trolling is to this thread what the Olympics are to the Special
> Olympics.
Well, I guess I'll have to take your word for that.. Do you have
anything musical to say?
LJS
Orangeboxman
What is "The Musical Question"?
LJS
> That depends.
>
> What is "The Musical Question"?
Did I reply to your post? If so, sorry, I was addressing Joey and his
statement to graciously allow me to talk music with him.
The question was in the post, I think.
LJS
Ps. For such a long time, I had to reach Joey through replies of
others that had not been kill filed. I got into the habit of not
noticing who's post it was, as if I wanted to point out something to
Joey, I had to put it inside someone elses post and when they replied
next, he would get the message. I later found out that he lied about
kill filling me. Well, he did in one reader or computer, but he would
go to another computer or reader and keep in touch. I have not
adjusted to talking to him directly. When he decided to go into his
"attack mode" and get away from music and into personality, he un-kill
filed me, (I think that is what he said) but Sorry to have bumped into
your post.
LJS
>
> What is "The Musical Question"?
oops, I was confusing this with one of my more recent posts. It is so
confusing when you are killed on one post and not in another.
In this case, I had only read your post about the Olympics and it had
no musical content. just the reference to the trolling and then the
Olympics. Since then I think we have had some musical discussion and
that we each have apologized to each other.
Maybe now we can get back to theory.
LJS
Orangeboxman
I'm here to talk music theory and mock trolls.
LJS
> I'm not here for apologies (which I appreciate, thanks).
>
> I'm here to talk music theory and mock trolls.
Its a public news group. I would, however, ask that in order to keep
the myriad of posts somewhat organized that you keep the header of the
post you are responding to so that there would be less chance of
loosing touch with who said what. When I get your posts on google, the
only clue is the thread name and the quote. I know that it saves
bandwidth (does not seem to be a problem with Google) but then that
saving is lost when there are a series of confused "who said what and
in which context". Then all bandwidth savings are lost.
LJS
Bohgosity BumaskiL
article, and one thing you really should do to distinguish yourself from
someone deserving of censure is refrain from making any evaluations of your
opponent. Do not put crude numbers on your opponent's record. Do not try to
class them as either student or teacher. Do not make blanket comparisons or
assessments of your overall status to that of your opponent. Do not use an
estimate of which year of school someone's theory belongs with to trash
someone's theory.
Those things are meaningless, here, and detrimental to your own credibility,
because you hav no clue how many eighth-graders may be lurking, nor hav you
any idea how much effort went into making a concept usable to eighth
graders. Newsgroups are not classrooms. Putting a low score on someone's
performance will not keep anybody off a stage, out of a loft, or out of a
recording studio. Newsgroups are counsel from students and to students, no
matter the title of professor. Please make your criticism more useful to the
thoughts before you. In jeneral, if a comment makes you feel good at
someone's expense, and it does not require you to actually understand
something, then it does not belong here. There is a group called
news://localhost/alt.flame for that.
_______
Don't shoot the messenjer.
LJS
<brewh...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
> I do not mind telling you that your opposition to me has improved my
> article,
Glad to be of help.
> and one thing you really should do to distinguish yourself from
> someone deserving of censure is refrain from making any evaluations of your
> opponent.
Opponent? I have neither attacked you nor do I consider you an
opponent. I believe that these are you may be speaking to your own
viewpoint and not mine.
> Do not put crude numbers on your opponent's record. Do not try to
> class them as either student or teacher. Do not make blanket comparisons or
> assessments of your overall status to that of your opponent. Do not use an
> estimate of which year of school someone's theory belongs with to trash
> someone's theory.
I have done neither of the things you have mentioned. Maybe it is an
ESL thing, but I addressed the statements that were made. They were
and still are those of a student. They are not the type of questions
that an artistic musician would make. They are statements that would
come out of someone that has not attained the skills to understand
what is involved in being an artistic musician. The only reason I
addressed the statements at all is that they provided a very low
standard to judge musicianship and if there is anyone out there that
cares about artistry, statements like those are demeaning to any that
may have paid he dues necessary to be a high level musician.
Personally, I know nothing about you and that is why I addressed your
statements. As I have said before, if the shoe fits wear it and at
least your continuation of the discussion showed that you were at
least trying to put things into perspective.
>
> Those things are meaningless, here, and detrimental to your own credibility,
> because you hav no clue how many eighth-graders may be lurking, nor hav you
> any idea how much effort went into making a concept usable to eighth
> graders.
Methinks that you may have me and you confused! I have taught 8th
graders all over the world. I have taught them in many different
settings and quite frankly, most of them learned how to think as a
composer and learned what it meant to be a composer and to use their
tools to create music. Some learned more than others, but all learned
to think like a composer and broadened their understanding of what is
necessary to be an artist in music. Others learned to follow a set of
directions and come to a predicable end. Quite frankly, the comments
that I responded to fall into the latter category.
I don't know why you want to make it personal. If you are a successful
jingle writer then why are you concerned with what I think? If you
think that the statements I responded to are what a true musician is
about, you don't have any idea of what the musician is about. I don't
know if any of this applies to you personally, or if you were quoting
someone else, if you are the person that contacted me off line or
anything else. Quite frankly, I don't really care that much. The
statements demeaned the work of serious musicians and I responded to
them. If you took them personally, that is your problem and has
nothing to do with me.
> Newsgroups are not classrooms. Putting a low score on someone's
> performance will not keep anybody off a stage, out of a loft, or out of a
> recording studio. Newsgroups are counsel from students and to students, no
> matter the title of professor.
Thanks for your opinion of what news groups are and are not. I believe
that I thanked you for your opinion of what the functions of a
musician were and pointed out that they are YOUR opinions and
certainly not mine. In general, however, maybe you should try to
refrain from totally changing my statements to a personal attack.
Maybe that is a Canadian thing or just a different interpretation of
the language I really don't know or care. "Title of professor?" did
anyone say anything about title of professor? Now you are starting to
sound like Joey.
>Please make your criticism more useful to the
> thoughts before you. In jeneral, if a comment makes you feel good at
> someone's expense, and it does not require you to actually understand
> something, then it does not belong here. There is a group called
> news://localhost/alt.flame for that.
Hmm, Let's recap. I read statements that elevated someone to the
status of MUSICIAN if they could put a limerick verse to music and
sell it but has a problem with anything other than simple forms at the
expense of people that have devoted a lifetime to learning about music
at a high level. I pointed out that there is more than music than
being a jingle writer. You seem to disagree. After reading this post I
have to ask:
Are you the teacher that uses jingles to teach rhythm and melody and
simple forms to 8th graders? or are you the 8th grade student that
thinks he has learned music by being able to do this? I believe that
if you read my posts carefully and if you get my meaning that you will
see that I didn't make any value judgments concerning you personally
if you were either of those options or if you are something else
entirely.
I do find it strange that you elect to twist statements to seem like a
personal attack on you! If you are the same person that contacted me
off line, then I have to question your motives. The only thing that I
can say is IF you believe the statements that I questions then you are
not a high level musician. You may make money and be technically able
to call yourself a professional musician, but making money with music
does not automatically qualify one to be a serious musician.
In all my comments, a simple restatement substituting Jinglest for
Musician would have been fine. You never did that! If you don't
consider my comments to be helpful, you have totally missed the point
and you have no idea of what it means to devote your life to learning
and creating music. Sorry.. That is the way it is.
LJS