A Whiter Shade Of Pale - Stereo Mix!

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Taliesyn

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May 7, 2002, 12:12:16 PM5/7/02
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A lot of talk goin' on about stereo versions...

I just received in the mail the Procol Harum 2CD set, Classic Tracks
and Rarities: An Anthology. While it has 36 tracks, I was mainly
interested in one - "Whiter Shade of Pale", the stereo version.

I wasn't disappointed. Music of this heavenly magnitude should not
be experienced in mono! Not only does it sound marvelous in stereo, but
it's an extended version (5:53 versus the original 4:05 mono). There are
no extra verses. Instead the chorus line repeats two more times with
more of the same great Hammond organ solos in-between. Also there is a
cold ending, as opposed to the badly (prematurely) faded original mono
we were so used to.

Here's what the liner notes say about this stereo version: "Procol Harum
recorded the tracks for their debut album in mono. However, when it was
released critics panned its production qualities against the stereo
excellence of The Beatles 'Sergeant Pepper'. This early 1967 take of the
band's very first hit is taken from an original four track master tape.
In 1997 it was mixed-down and re-mastered in glorious stereo by Tom
Moulton some thirty years after it was recorded." [end]

This stereo mix does sound slightly different (better?) from the mono.
But after several plays - addictively playing it for the past hour
non-stop - I got so used to it that the old mono is now placed on the
trash heap of history. For those who haven't heard it, it's highly
recommended. The brief excerpt available at one of the big online
dealers convinced me to buy it.

Anyone else find this version a big improvement?

<<< A Whiter Shade of Taliesyn >>>

BobbyTheD

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May 7, 2002, 9:27:37 PM5/7/02
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>I just received in the mail the Procol Harum 2CD set, Classic Tracks
>and Rarities: An Anthology. While it has 36 tracks, I was mainly
>interested in one - "Whiter Shade of Pale", the stereo version.
>
>I wasn't disappointed. Music of this heavenly magnitude should not
>be experienced in mono! Not only does it sound marvelous in stereo, but
>it's an extended version (5:53 versus the original 4:05 mono). There are
>no extra verses. Instead the chorus line repeats two more times with
>more of the same great Hammond organ solos in-between. Also there is a
>cold ending, as opposed to the badly (prematurely) faded original mono
>we were so used to.


Always wondered why this song was never issued in stereo. The fade on the
version we all know and love seemed awfully abrupt, but then again a 4
minute song was almost unheard of in 1967, especially by an unknown band.
Length was an issue back then...I have a promo single of Simon &
Garfunkel's "Fakin' It" from the same summer, and it lists the time as
2:74.


>
>This stereo mix does sound slightly different (better?) from the mono.
>But after several plays - addictively playing it for the past hour
>non-stop - I got so used to it that the old mono is now placed on the
>trash heap of history.

This part bothers me. So many songs get remastered into stereo for CD
where the end result is almost but not quite the same as the original.
Obviously, some people are going to like one mix over the other, but the
mix of a song that's been part of us for 35 years should not be tampered
with imho.

Numbat

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May 7, 2002, 11:18:44 PM5/7/02
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On Tue, 07 May 2002 12:12:16 -0400, Taliesyn <Tali...@netscape.net>
wrote:

I've had this set for about 4 years now,
the Stereo version you talk of (Disc3 Track11?)
sounds to me to be a very different take to
the one that was issued as the single,as noted on the Disc 1 booklet,
especially the vocal.
I would have posted this track to the mp3 group a long time
ago as a stereo version,but to me it was just too different
from the original.
Certainly the stereo version offers a quality improvement
as far as the "sound quality" goes,but it just doesn't sound the same
as the original.
I had a play with the backing track (Disc3 Track12) and overdubing
the vocal from the original single,but the two tracks seem to
be slightly different because around halfway through the vocal and
instruments were slowly getting further and further out of sinc.
If anyone knows how to do these stereo mixing tricks , I can post the
backing track for you to have a play with.....
---
Numbat.

Taliesyn

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May 7, 2002, 11:22:01 PM5/7/02
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BobbyTheD wrote:
[clipped]

>>This stereo mix does sound slightly different (better?) from the mono.
>>But after several plays - addictively playing it for the past hour
>>non-stop - I got so used to it that the old mono is now placed on the
>>trash heap of history.
>
> This part bothers me. So many songs get remastered into stereo for CD
> where the end result is almost but not quite the same as the original.
> Obviously, some people are going to like one mix over the other, but the
> mix of a song that's been part of us for 35 years should not be tampered
> with imho.


Though I love the Sixties and all the great songs I grew up with, I'm
not tied to them, and only them. When I make my compilation tapes or
CDs, I mix classic hits with Sixties songs I just discovered recently,
without any second thought. Same with different mixes of songs. I
decide which versions please me now, and not back then. For instance, I
chose the alternate version of The Byrds "My Back Pages" for my
Millennium Collection simply because it was more interesting. It
featured a more prominent organ and an intriguing, swirling guitar solo
from McGuinn played through a Leslie Cabinet which literally transforms
the song. This version was originally scheduled as the single release,
but was withdrawn in favor of the longer, album version we know.

<<< Taliesyn >>>

Taliesyn

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May 7, 2002, 11:42:24 PM5/7/02
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Numbat wrote:

> On Tue, 07 May 2002 12:12:16 -0400, Taliesyn <Tali...@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>
>>A lot of talk goin' on about stereo versions...
>>
>>I just received in the mail the Procol Harum 2CD set, Classic Tracks
>>and Rarities: An Anthology. While it has 36 tracks, I was mainly
>>interested in one - "Whiter Shade of Pale", the stereo version.
>>

[clipped]

>>
> I've had this set for about 4 years now,
> the Stereo version you talk of (Disc3 Track11?)
> sounds to me to be a very different take to
> the one that was issued as the single,as noted on the Disc 1 booklet,
> especially the vocal.

I didn't know this version was released on an earlier set. Mine is
a new (2002) UK release - Classic Tracks and Rarities.

I noticed that the vocals are amazingly clear on this stereo mix. You
actually hear Brooker sing "white-er" instead of the somewhat muffled
"wide-er" on the mono mix. I was especially impressed with the
clarity of the vocals. No need to run to the Internet to figure out
the lyrics.

<<< Taliesyn >>>

Numbat

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May 8, 2002, 4:05:57 AM5/8/02
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On Tue, 07 May 2002 23:42:24 -0400, Taliesyn <Tali...@netscape.net>
wrote:

Ah-ha,we may be talking about different takes here?
I have "Procol Harum - 30th Anniversary Anthology" on the Westside
label. WESX 301.Containing "4 original albums,Rarities & Unreleased
tracks",put out in 1997.
The first 2 CD's contain the 4 LP's:
Procol Harum
Shine on Brightly
A Salty Dog
Home

The Third CD contains singles A & B's/Outtakes/Alternate Takes:
Whiter Shade of Pale A&B sides
Homburg A&B sides
Quite Rightly So A&B sides
A Salty Dog A&B sides

Plus:
Monsieur Armand (Outtake)
Seem to have the Blues (Outtake)
Whiter Shade of Pale (Unreleased Stereo Version)
Whiter Shade of Pale (Unreleased Backing Track)
Homburg (Alternate 1967 re-rec)
Homburg (Unreleased 1967 Stereo Version)
Conquistador (Alternate 1967 Stereo)
She Wandered through the Garden Fence (Alt 1967 Stereo Version)
Magdalene (Unreleased 1967 original version)

---
Numbat.

Taliesyn

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May 8, 2002, 8:11:23 AM5/8/02
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Numbat wrote:

> On Tue, 07 May 2002 23:42:24 -0400, Taliesyn <Tali...@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>

[clipped]

>>>>I just received in the mail the Procol Harum 2CD set, Classic Tracks
>>>>and Rarities: An Anthology. While it has 36 tracks, I was mainly
>>>>interested in one - "Whiter Shade of Pale", the stereo version.
>>>>

[clipped]

> Ah-ha,we may be talking about different takes here?


> I have "Procol Harum - 30th Anniversary Anthology" on the Westside
> label. WESX 301.Containing "4 original albums,Rarities & Unreleased
> tracks",put out in 1997.

If yours has these characteristics it should be the same mix:

My version of "Pale" is 6:01 long and begins with someone saying,
"Whiter Shade of Pale take 2(?).... (cough) .... 1 - 2 - 3 - 4"
Actual song begins at the 10 second mark on my player.

<<< Taliesyn >>>

Numbat

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May 8, 2002, 10:55:18 AM5/8/02
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On Wed, 08 May 2002 08:11:23 -0400, Taliesyn <Tali...@netscape.net>
wrote:

Exactly the same!!
My book says of the track - "Unreleased stereo version.An earlier 1967
take with a different ending.Taken from a 4 track master,mixed down
and mastered by Tom Moulton 1997".
---
Numbat.

Jeff Troutman

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May 8, 2002, 11:36:59 AM5/8/02
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"Numbat" <Num...@Bilabong.net.au> wrote:
> On Wed, 08 May 2002 08:11:23 -0400, Taliesyn <Tali...@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >My version of "Pale" is 6:01 long and begins with someone saying,
> >"Whiter Shade of Pale take 2(?).... (cough) .... 1 - 2 - 3 - 4"
> >Actual song begins at the 10 second mark on my player.
> >
> Exactly the same!!
> My book says of the track - "Unreleased stereo version.An earlier 1967
> take with a different ending.Taken from a 4 track master,mixed down
> and mastered by Tom Moulton 1997".
>

An earlier take? Interesting. Does it say who the drummer is?

Jeff Troutman

Taliesyn

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May 8, 2002, 12:11:17 PM5/8/02
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Jeff Troutman wrote:

Yes, the liner notes state (in this exact manner):

Bill Eyden (Drums)
With additional drums from Bobby Harrison
Mixed-down & mastered by Tom Moulton

<<< Taliesyn >>>

Greg Ioannou

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May 8, 2002, 3:15:27 PM5/8/02
to

"Taliesyn" <Tali...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3CD7FCE0...@netscape.net...

> A lot of talk goin' on about stereo versions...
>
> I just received in the mail the Procol Harum 2CD set, Classic Tracks
> and Rarities: An Anthology. While it has 36 tracks, I was mainly
> interested in one - "Whiter Shade of Pale", the stereo version.
<snip>

> Here's what the liner notes say about this stereo version: "Procol Harum
> recorded the tracks for their debut album in mono. However, when it was
> released critics panned its production qualities against the stereo
> excellence of The Beatles 'Sergeant Pepper'. This early 1967 take of the
> band's very first hit is taken from an original four track master tape.
> In 1997 it was mixed-down and re-mastered in glorious stereo by Tom
> Moulton some thirty years after it was recorded." [end]
>
<snip>

> Anyone else find this version a big improvement?

Yes, vastly better. I have it on the 3-CD 30th Anniversary Anthology set.
What really stands out for me in the stereo version is Bobby Harrison's
muscular drumming -- to me it is much more effective than B.J. Wilson's
drumming on the version we all know.

Also on the 3-CD set is the matching stereo remix of Homburg, which is even
more of a revelation. The mono Homburg has a wash of distortion and tape
hiss in the background. This version is clear and beautiful. What is
stunning about the stereo Homburg is the ending. Instead of fading out,
there is a long instrumental ending, with Gary Brooker's piano continuing
the line it has played throughout the song in the left channel, and Matthew
Fischer playing a Bach fugue on organ in the right channel. The effect is
magical. This is an earlier take than the one that was released. Presumably
at 5:30 it was too long to be released as a single at the time. Too bad --
it is a much stronger take. (I'm surprised they didn't edit out Brooker's
voice catching on the word Homburg near the end!)

Greg


Greg Ioannou

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May 8, 2002, 3:37:00 PM5/8/02
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"Taliesyn" <Tali...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3CD94E25...@netscape.net...

Curious. The 3-CD version says "Track #11 features Bobby Harrison on drums
and guitarist Ray Royer. Others as per the first three albums." No mention
of Eyden. Same line-up for Homburg. Both are descried as "earlier 1967
takes" -- i.e., recorded before the ones that were released as singles.

There's also an almost unlistenable "alternative 1967 stereo re-recording"
of Homburg on the 3-CD set. The problem is terrible tape hiss, which drowns
out the music in some places.

Greg


Gary Jackson

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May 8, 2002, 2:29:17 PM5/8/02
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The message <3CD89EA0...@netscape.net>
from Taliesyn <Tali...@netscape.net> contains these words:

> I didn't know this version was released on an earlier set. Mine is
> a new (2002) UK release - Classic Tracks and Rarities.

The stereo version first saw the light of day on a Westside label box set

Gary

Joan May

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Jun 8, 2002, 7:51:30 PM6/8/02
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Greg Ioannou (gregi...@rogers.com)

Date: 2002-05-08 12:15:29 PST wrote:
"Taliesyn" <Tali...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:3CD7FCE0...@netscape.net..

> A lot of talk goin' on about stereo versions...
>
> I just received in the mail the Procol Harum 2CD set, Classic Tracks
> and Rarities: An Anthology. While it has 36 tracks, I was mainly
> interested in one - "Whiter Shade of Pale", the stereo version. <snip>
> Here's what the liner notes say about this stereo version: "Procol Harum
> recorded the tracks for their debut album in mono. However, when it was
> released critics panned its production qualities against the stereo
> excellence of The Beatles 'Sergeant Pepper'. This early 1967 take of the
> band's very first hit is taken from an original four track master tape.
> In 1997 it was mixed-down and re-mastered in glorious stereo by Tom
> Moulton some thirty years after it was recorded." [end]
> <snip>
> Anyone else find this version a big improvement?

>>Yes, vastly better. I have it on the 3-CD 30th Anniversary Anthology set.
What really stands out for me in the stereo version is Bobby Harrison's
muscular drumming -- to me it is much more effective than B.J. Wilson's
drumming on the version we all know.<<<

That was jazz drummer/session man Bill Eyden on the original version, not B.J.
Wilson. I much prefer Eyden's drumming to Harrision's -- the latter being too
intrusive on the mood of the piece, especially the organ melody. Also you can
hear the pounding piano in the stereo mix and I don't care for that either, for
the same reason I don't like Harrison's drums. The song really sounds best
with organ, bass and drums -- no guitar or piano, imo. On the original version
the guitar and piano are barely audible and that's the way I like it.
I also prefer the fadeout on the original to the cliched ending on the
alternate that seems tacked-on.

By the way, several items on the liner notes to various Procol reissues are in
error. The stereo mix was a later recording than the released single, not
earlier as is reported by Westside Records in the liner notes.

>>>
Also on the 3-CD set is the matching stereo remix of Homburg, which is even
more of a revelation. The mono Homburg has a wash of distortion and tape
hiss in the background. This version is clear and beautiful. What is
stunning about the stereo Homburg is the ending. Instead of fading out,
there is a long instrumental ending, with Gary Brooker's piano continuing
the line it has played throughout the song in the left channel, and Matthew

Fisher playing a Bach fugue on organ in the right channel. The effect is
magical....<<<

Here I agree -- LOVE those organ lines!!!

Best,
Joan
http://community-2.webtv.net/jem33/images2/


Taliesyn

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Jun 8, 2002, 8:17:34 PM6/8/02
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Joan May wrote:

>>>
> What really stands out for me in the stereo version is Bobby Harrison's
> muscular drumming -- to me it is much more effective than B.J. Wilson's
> drumming on the version we all know.<<<
>
> That was jazz drummer/session man Bill Eyden on the original version, not B.J.
> Wilson. I much prefer Eyden's drumming to Harrision's


My liner notes say Bill Eyden, with additions drums from Bobby Harrison.

Harrison overdubbed Bill Eyden???

> I also prefer the fadeout on the original to the cliched ending on the
> alternate that seems tacked-on.


I don't like the original fadeout - too rushed, rather careless editing.

And I don't particularly care for the cold ending on the extended stereo
mix. The brief 'drum roll' at the very close seems out of place. I
would have simply let the organ close the song.

> By the way, several items on the liner notes to various Procol reissues are in
> error. The stereo mix was a later recording than the released single, not
> earlier as is reported by Westside Records in the liner notes.


Interesting revelation. I have seen the extra verses for WSOP posted
at the Procol Harum website. I wonder why they chose not to record them
for this later extended version. Actually I don't like them at all, so
perhaps I answered my own question. ;-)


>
> Here I agree -- LOVE those organ lines!!!

I couldn't have said it better... love those organ lines!!!

<<< Taliesyn >>>

Greg Weatherby

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Jun 8, 2002, 8:48:48 PM6/8/02
to
On Sat, 08 Jun 2002 20:17:34 -0400, Taliesyn <Tali...@netscape.net>
wrote:

>> Here I agree -- LOVE those organ lines!!!
>
>I couldn't have said it better... love those organ lines!!!

then track down "Reflections of Charles Brown" by Ruperts People or
"Waiting For The Magic Train" by The Flies to get more!

Greg

-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
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Taliesyn

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Jun 8, 2002, 9:09:40 PM6/8/02
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Greg Weatherby wrote:

> On Sat, 08 Jun 2002 20:17:34 -0400, Taliesyn <Tali...@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>
>>>Here I agree -- LOVE those organ lines!!!
>>>
>>I couldn't have said it better... love those organ lines!!!
>
> then track down "Reflections of Charles Brown" by Ruperts People or
> "Waiting For The Magic Train" by The Flies to get more!
>

Tracked down, safe and sound... I have "Reflections of Charles Brown"
on CD. Great song, and the organ is quite nice but lacks the nobility
(the richness) of Procol's big Hammond. I have both songs planned for
the CD I'll be recording soon for my personal series called The
Millennium Collection, Vol. 4.

I had never heard of the UK group, The Flies and their "Waiting For The
Magic Train". (I just read their brief bio at borderlinebooks.com.)

<<< Taliesyn >>>

David &/or Joan May

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Jun 8, 2002, 8:56:10 PM6/8/02
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Tali...@netscape.net (Taliesyn) wrote:

"....My liner notes say Bill Eyden, with additions drums from Bobby
Harrison.
Harrison overdubbed Bill Eyden??? ..."

I forgot to mention that this was another liner-notes error. Harrison
was the sole drummer on the stereo remix. Eyden just played on the
original single during that one studio session. I've found that liner
notes are often riddled with errors, not just with Procol Harum, but a
lot with them. The best source of info on PH is the vast fan website
procolharum.com.

"....I have seen the extra verses for WSOP posted at the Procol Harum


website. I wonder why they chose not to record them for this later
extended version. Actually I don't like them at all, so perhaps I

answered my own question. ;-) .."

LOL! Yes they are embarrasingly awful aren't they? It's hard to
believe they were ever attached to the wonderful verses of the released
version. Ouch!

"....I couldn't have said it better... love those organ lines!!!
<<< Taliesyn >>> "

:-)

Best,
Joan

http://www.procolharum.com/awsopcomp.htm

Taliesyn

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Jun 8, 2002, 9:47:49 PM6/8/02
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David &/or Joan May wrote:

> Tali...@netscape.net (Taliesyn) wrote:
>
> "....My liner notes say Bill Eyden, with additions drums from Bobby
> Harrison.
> Harrison overdubbed Bill Eyden??? ..."
>
> I forgot to mention that this was another liner-notes error. Harrison
> was the sole drummer on the stereo remix. Eyden just played on the
> original single during that one studio session. I've found that liner
> notes are often riddled with errors, not just with Procol Harum, but a
> lot with them. The best source of info on PH is the vast fan website
> procolharum.com.


Thanks very much for this important correction. I'm currently preparing
Vol. 4 of a personal (not for sale) project called The Millennium
Collection. It's a CD containing 20 various artist songs with an
accompanying 52 page full color booklet (8 1/2 x 11 folded) containing
photos, lyrics, bios, group members, etc. This beautiful stereo version
of WSOP will be used. I will therefore update the booklet and remove
Eyden. Thanks again. [Added note, I found a good B&W picture of the
group on eBay (I didn't buy, just copied) which includes Keith Reid.]

> "....I have seen the extra verses for WSOP posted at the Procol Harum
> website. I wonder why they chose not to record them for this later
> extended version. Actually I don't like them at all, so perhaps I
> answered my own question. ;-) .."
>
> LOL! Yes they are embarrasingly awful aren't they? It's hard to
> believe they were ever attached to the wonderful verses of the released
> version. Ouch!


I'm glad you came out saying they're embarrassingly awful. I wasn't
going to use such strong language in case you thought they were good.
What was I thinking!?! Actually, I was being diplomatic.

Best,
<<< Taliesyn >>>

Greg Weatherby

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Jun 8, 2002, 11:10:47 PM6/8/02
to
>Tracked down, safe and sound... I have "Reflections of Charles Brown"
>on CD. Great song, and the organ is quite nice but lacks the nobility
>(the richness) of Procol's big Hammond. I have both songs planned for
>the CD I'll be recording soon for my personal series called The
>Millennium Collection, Vol. 4.

Agree with the comment on the organ sound. The two songs are not very
similar, really, other than the use of the Bach inspired organ. Their
(RP) next single was a real gem, "Prologue To A Magic World". Heard
this one?


>
>I had never heard of the UK group, The Flies and their "Waiting For The
>Magic Train". (I just read their brief bio at borderlinebooks.com.)

They are most well known for their cover of "I'm Not Your Stepping
Stone", which is my least fave song by them, actually. I'll see if I
can find a way to have hear WFTMT. I'll e-mail you off list.

Another organ Procol inspired song is "Ice Man" by Ice.

Taliesyn

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Jun 9, 2002, 9:39:43 AM6/9/02
to
Greg Weatherby wrote:

>>Tracked down, safe and sound... I have "Reflections of Charles Brown"
>>on CD. Great song, and the organ is quite nice but lacks the nobility
>>(the richness) of Procol's big Hammond. I have both songs planned for
>>the CD I'll be recording soon for my personal series called The
>>Millennium Collection, Vol. 4.
>
> Agree with the comment on the organ sound. The two songs are not very
> similar, really, other than the use of the Bach inspired organ. Their
> (RP) next single was a real gem, "Prologue To A Magic World". Heard
> this one?


Yes, I've played it a few times, very nice tune. It reminds me of the
somewhat similar (same idea) american single that I have called "Little
Girl Lost And Found" (also based on Alice) by The Garden Club. That one
made the charts in some American markets in April 1967. I have it at #31
at KCPX in Salt Lake City, Utah on April 17th. I don't know its later
progress though.

<<< Taliesyn >>>

Greg Weatherby

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Jun 9, 2002, 11:51:47 AM6/9/02
to
On Sun, 09 Jun 2002 09:39:43 -0400, Taliesyn <Tali...@netscape.net>
wrote:

>Yes, I've played it a few times, very nice tune. It reminds me of the
>somewhat similar (same idea) american single that I have called "Little
>Girl Lost And Found" (also based on Alice) by The Garden Club. That one
>made the charts in some American markets in April 1967. I have it at #31
>at KCPX in Salt Lake City, Utah on April 17th. I don't know its later
>progress though.

Now this is interesting. Is it written by John Pantry? I'm wondering
if this is the same song as the one by Peter and The Wolves, which
came out in 67 as well. I'm guessing it is, because of the timing and
the 'Alice In Wonderland' theme.

mcp6453

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Jun 9, 2002, 12:41:22 PM6/9/02
to
Joan May wrote:

[snip]

> Here I agree -- LOVE those organ lines!!!

Here is part of an email that I received from Matthew Fisher (organist
on AWSOP). I don't think he would mind me posting this...

"AWSOP was recorded in the old Olympic #2 studio in Barnes. I don't
remember what microphones they used, but I subsequently noticed they
used a lot of AKG C12As and Neumann U67s. (The C12A was the tube
version of the C414 and the U67 the tube version of the U87.). They
also used Beyer and AKG dynamic mikes on snare drums, bass drums, etc.

"The engineer was a guy called Keith Grant (who's still going strong)
and the machine would have been some kind of Ampex 4-track. All the
consoles at Olympic in those days were built by a firm called Helios
(led by a guy called Dick Swettenham). The track layout was:

Track 1: Bass & Drums
Track 2: Piano & Gtr
Track 3: Organ
Track 4: Vocal

and there were NO OVERDUBS (not even the vocal)!

"During the mix, the engineer compressed the Piano & Gtr track, which
had a lot to do with the 'swirly' sound of the record. Other factors are
that there was a great deal of leakage from the cymbals into Gary's
vocal mike and that the balance of the mikes on the Leslie was a bit
bottom-heavy."

Taliesyn

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Jun 9, 2002, 1:57:47 PM6/9/02
to
Greg Weatherby wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Jun 2002 09:39:43 -0400, Taliesyn <Tali...@netscape.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Yes, I've played it a few times, very nice tune. It reminds me of the
>>somewhat similar (same idea) american single that I have called "Little
>>Girl Lost And Found" (also based on Alice) by The Garden Club. That one
>>made the charts in some American markets in April 1967. I have it at #31
>>at KCPX in Salt Lake City, Utah on April 17th. I don't know its later
>>progress though.
>
> Now this is interesting. Is it written by John Pantry? I'm wondering
> if this is the same song as the one by Peter and The Wolves, which
> came out in 67 as well. I'm guessing it is, because of the timing and
> the 'Alice In Wonderland' theme.


No, The Garden Club's "Little Girl Lost-And-Found" was written by Walsh
& Almer. Almer being the Tandyn Almer who wrote "Along Comes Mary" for
The Association. Almer also co-arranged the song with Larry Marks, who
produced it. Marks was also the producer for the US group Merry-Go-Round
who gave us "Live" and "You're A Very Lovely Woman" in 1967.

<<< Taliesyn >>>

Greg Weatherby

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Jun 9, 2002, 2:04:29 PM6/9/02
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>No, The Garden Club's "Little Girl Lost-And-Found" was written by Walsh
>& Almer. Almer being the Tandyn Almer who wrote "Along Comes Mary" for
>The Association. Almer also co-arranged the song with Larry Marks, who
>produced it. Marks was also the producer for the US group Merry-Go-Round
>who gave us "Live" and "You're A Very Lovely Woman" in 1967.

Very cool. I managed to track down this song in the mean time, and it
is the same song. I thought it had been written by the great John
Pantry, who did so much good stuff with the Bunch, Peter and The
Wolves, the Kinsmen, Wolfe, and others. The PaTW was the only version
I had heard. Pantry was also a studio engineer with the Beatles, and
Bee Gees amongst others. His material is well worth tracking down if
you love BritPsychLite!

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