THE POP BATTLE!! : Quarter Finals!

[Roger Ford]

Okay folks we are now down to the QUARTER FINALS round of

THE POP BATTLE!!

A tournament that will pitch a whole host of famous and well known
"pop" numbers from the period we generally discuss here (1947-1963)
against one another. The contestants from each year have been chosen
using a formula of 50% the best performing pop chart hits (as per
Billboard) RELEASED in that year and 50% the best performing pop
records from each relevant yearly Singles Battle. Some important and
significant LP tracks are also included.

Only EIGHT contenders left standing!

Facining each other in FOUR randomly chosen bouts!!

Who'll be the lucky guys (or gal) to grace the Semi Final?

Only YOUR vote can help decide so vote today!!

To vote or to register to vote go to

http://MarcDashevsky.com/battle

Don't forget to log in using your personal log in ID

IMPORTANT! Every effort has been made in this contest to provide links
on the ballot page to EVERY record in the contest. There continue to
be problems in this regard as You Tube links that work on one side of
the pond sometimes don't work on t'other Voters indulgence is
requested in this regard.And of course at any time during the contest
a given link could be taken down by the powers that be.This is of
course totally beyond our control and can't be helped sorry.

Remember the site lets you vote for as many or as few match ups as you
wish to deal with at any one time so please take your time.

As always you may vote for one single in each match up or you can
abstain in any match up you choose.
________________________________________________________________

DEADLINE FOR VOTING IN THIS ROUND WILL BE
MIDNIGHT (EST) THURSDAY 23RD MAY
________________________________________________________________

THERE IS NO NEED TO RUSH! YOU CAN RETURN TO THE SITE WHENEVER
YOU LIKE AS MANY TIMES AS YOU LIKE (during the time alloted) AND ADD
AS MANY (OR AS FEW) VOTES PER VISIT AS YOU WISH!

PLEASE! Make allowance for this closing time in the time zone where
you may happen to live and PLEASE DO NOT SUBMIT ANY VOTES AFTER
THIS TIME!

DOUBLE PLEASE!!! MAKE SURE YOUR VOTES ARE CORRECT BEFORE
PRESSING "SUBMIT". WRONGLY CAST VOTES WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BE
ALTERED

When completed you are welcome to post your votes here (you can "cut &
paste" them here directly from the website after you have submitted
your votes)---a few added comments accompanying your votes are
particularly welcome since I think a lot of the fun of these Battles
for many of us here is getting some discussion of the records and
artists involved

Results will be published here FRIDAY 24TH MAY

All winners in this round will feature in the Semi Finals

In the event of any ties in this round votes gained in Rounds 1 thru 6
will be added so producing a winner.

Okay,here's those four bouts needing your votes..........

*******************************************************************************

Tommy Edwards | It's All In The Game | M-G-M 12688 | 1958
Guy Mitchell | Singing The Blues | Columbia 40769 | 1956

Bobby Darin | Mack The Knife | Atco 6147 | 1959
Nat "King" Cole | Mona Lisa | Capitol 1010 | 1950

Dean Martin | Memories Are Made Of This | Capitol 3295 | 1955
Bobby Darin | Beyond The Sea | Atco 6158 | 1960

The Platters | Smoke Gets In Your Eyes | Mercury 71383 | 1958
Sarah Vaughan | Broken Hearted Melody | Mercury 71477 | 1959


*******************************************************************************

To vote or to register to vote go to

http://MarcDashevsky.com/battle

DEADLINE FOR VOTING IN THIS ROUND WILL BE
MIDNIGHT (EST) THURSDAY 23RD MAY

Thanks for your participation!

ROGER FORD
-----------------------

"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
an extra "b" in my e-mail address (mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk).
Please delete same before responding.Thank you!

[The Bloomfield Buddy]

Tommy Edwards -- It's All In The Game -- M-G-M 12688 -- 1958
***** Guy Mitchell -- Singing The Blues -- Columbia 40769 -- 1956

***** Bobby Darin -- Mack The Knife -- Atco 6147 -- 1959
Nat "King" Cole -- Mona Lisa -- Capitol 1010 -- 1950

Dean Martin -- Memories Are Made Of This -- Capitol 3295 -- 1955
***** Bobby Darin -- Beyond The Sea -- Atco 6158 -- 1960

The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury 71383 -- 1958
***** Sarah Vaughan -- Broken Hearted Melody -- Mercury 71477 -- 1959

[Eric Ramon]

I was rooting for Guy Mitchell until I saw he was up against It's All
in the Game. That Tommy Edwards song is not only a great song, it's
sung perfectly, with a brilliant arrangement. Just a touch ahead of
Singing the Blues.

***** Tommy Edwards -- It's All In The Game -- M-G-M 12688 -- 1958

Guy Mitchell -- Singing The Blues -- Columbia 40769 -- 1956

Mack has never been a big favorite of mine and it's up against my
favorite Cole.

Bobby Darin -- Mack The Knife -- Atco 6147 -- 1959

***** Nat "King" Cole -- Mona Lisa -- Capitol 1010 -- 1950

But Darin gets an easy win from me on the next matchup.

Dean Martin -- Memories Are Made Of This -- Capitol 3295 -- 1955
***** Bobby Darin -- Beyond The Sea -- Atco 6158 -- 1960

And my favorite Platters, to round out my votes.

***** The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury 71383 -- 1958

[Roger Ford]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 06:04:25 GMT, mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk (Roger
Ford) wrote:

>Okay folks we are now down to the QUARTER FINALS round of
>
>THE POP BATTLE!!
>

>***** Tommy Edwards -- It's All In The Game -- M-G-M 12688 -- 1958
> Guy Mitchell -- Singing The Blues -- Columbia 40769 -- 1956

Two great #1 hits but Tommy's wonderful remake edges it for me

> Bobby Darin -- Mack The Knife -- Atco 6147 -- 1959
>***** Nat "King" Cole -- Mona Lisa -- Capitol 1010 -- 1950

Nat won in the 1950 contest but is up againsty a REALLY formidable
opponent here.

>***** Dean Martin -- Memories Are Made Of This -- Capitol 3295 -- 1955

> Bobby Darin -- Beyond The Sea -- Atco 6158 -- 1960

Both are big favorites (tho I like Darin's "Mack The Knife" better).
Again Dino just edges it

>***** The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury 71383 -- 1958
> Sarah Vaughan -- Broken Hearted Melody -- Mercury 71477 -- 1959

If I were a betting man I'd go with the Platters as most likely to win
this whole thing

[Sharx35]

My choices:

***** Tommy Edwards -- It's All In The Game -- M-G-M 12688 -- 1958
Guy Mitchell -- Singing The Blues -- Columbia 40769 -- 1956

Bobby Darin -- Mack The Knife -- Atco 6147 -- 1959
***** Nat "King" Cole -- Mona Lisa -- Capitol 1010 -- 1950

***** Dean Martin -- Memories Are Made Of This -- Capitol 3295 --
1955
Bobby Darin -- Beyond The Sea -- Atco 6158 -- 1960

The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury 71383 -- 1958

***** Sarah Vaughan -- Broken Hearted Melody -- Mercury 71477 --
1959

============================================================
No abstentions.

[DianeE]

Darin vs. Cole and Platters vs. Vaughan were total toss-ups for me. I like
them all.
DianeE

Tommy Edwards -- It's All In The Game -- M-G-M 12688 -- 1958

***** Guy Mitchell -- Singing The Blues -- Columbia 40769 -- 1956

Bobby Darin -- Mack The Knife -- Atco 6147 -- 1959
***** Nat "King" Cole -- Mona Lisa -- Capitol 1010 -- 1950

Dean Martin -- Memories Are Made Of This -- Capitol 3295 -- 1955

***** Bobby Darin -- Beyond The Sea -- Atco 6158 -- 1960

***** The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury 71383 -- 1958

[Bill B]

***** Tommy Edwards -- It's All In The Game -- M-G-M 12688 -- 1958

Guy Mitchell -- Singing The Blues -- Columbia 40769 -- 1956

***** Bobby Darin -- Mack The Knife -- Atco 6147 -- 1959

[ordina...@gmail.com]

I never thought these would be my four finalists, but OTOH, I thought I'd have a(n overall) better lot to choose from than this:

Kosloff

[Mark Dintenfass]

In article <5199bcbf...@news.virginmedia.com>, Roger Ford

<mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> Okay folks we are now down to the QUARTER FINALS round of
>
> THE POP BATTLE!!

These all seem like obvious choices to me.

***** Tommy Edwards -- It's All In The Game -- M-G-M 12688 -- 1958
Guy Mitchell -- Singing The Blues -- Columbia 40769 -- 1956

Bobby Darin -- Mack The Knife -- Atco 6147 -- 1959

***** Nat "King" Cole -- Mona Lisa -- Capitol 1010 -- 1950

Dean Martin -- Memories Are Made Of This -- Capitol 3295 -- 1955
***** Bobby Darin -- Beyond The Sea -- Atco 6158 -- 1960

***** The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury 71383 -- 1958
Sarah Vaughan -- Broken Hearted Melody -- Mercury 71477 -- 1959

The best surprise in the contest has been how well Sarah Vaughan has
done.

--
--md
_________
Remove xx's from address to reply

[The Bloomfield Buddy]

On May 20, 10:10 am, Mark Dintenfass <mdintenf...@xxnew.rr.com> wrote:
> In article <5199bcbf.1723...@news.virginmedia.com>, Roger Ford

>
> <maria...@bblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > Okay folks we are now down to the QUARTER FINALS round of
>
> > THE POP BATTLE!!
>
> These all seem like obvious choices to me.
>
> ***** Tommy Edwards -- It's All In The Game -- M-G-M 12688 -- 1958
>    Guy Mitchell -- Singing The Blues -- Columbia 40769 -- 1956
>
>    Bobby Darin -- Mack The Knife -- Atco 6147 -- 1959
> ***** Nat "King" Cole -- Mona Lisa -- Capitol 1010 -- 1950
>
>    Dean Martin -- Memories Are Made Of This -- Capitol 3295 -- 1955
> ***** Bobby Darin -- Beyond The Sea -- Atco 6158 -- 1960
>
> ***** The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury 71383 -- 1958
>    Sarah Vaughan -- Broken Hearted Melody -- Mercury 71477 -- 1959
>
> The best surprise in the contest has been how well Sarah Vaughan has
> done.

Imagine Pendragon's face if the final is between two black acts.

[Mark Dintenfass]

In article <5199bd80...@news.virginmedia.com>, Roger Ford

<mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> >***** The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury 71383 -- 1958
> > Sarah Vaughan -- Broken Hearted Melody -- Mercury 71477 -- 1959
>
> If I were a betting man I'd go with the Platters as most likely to win
> this whole thing

There's only one song left I'd vote for over the Platters, but it may
not get through this round. If it does, Nat might take the Platters
down.

[ordina...@gmail.com]

On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:12:25 AM UTC-4, The Bloomfield Buddy wrote:

>Imagine Pendragon's face if the final is between two black acts.

I would never let my choices in any or all of these contests be affected or influenced by what other people think (it hasn't happened before, and it won't happen now), but I would vote for Smoke over Knife, but maybe not against Beyond The Sea. However, TE over either BD. But as I said before, could actually give a rat's S as to whatever Skunkly or Nutley think or favor when it comes to my votes FWIW.

[Michael Pendragon]

> Imagine Pendragon's face if the final is between two black acts.- Hide quoted text -

Well, let's see ... you've recently stated that all four of these
artists/groups were "sell outs to whitey at some point in their
career" and, since these huge popular hits by them would seem to be
prime examples of their "sold out" singles, I can't see why I'd have
any problem with them.

[The Bloomfield Buddy]

On May 20, 1:05 pm, Michael Pendragon

Yes, you're fine with Blacky as long as he acts like Whitey.

[Michael Pendragon]

> Yes, you're fine with Blacky as long as he acts like Whitey.- Hide quoted text -

Anyone who denies a place in the history of "black music" to such
stellar records as Nat "King" Cole's "Mona Lisa," Tommy Edwards' "All
in the Game," Sarah Vaughan's "Broken-Hearted Melody," and The
Platters' masterpiece, "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" is ... pardon my
French ... an idiot.

[The Bloomfield Buddy]

On May 20, 1:53 pm, Michael Pendragon

<michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 20, 1:08 pm, The Bloomfield Buddy <Savo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, you're fine with Blacky as long as he acts like Whitey.
>

> Anyone who denies a place in the history of "black music" to such
> stellar records as Nat "King" Cole's  "Mona Lisa," Tommy Edwards' "All
> in the Game," Sarah Vaughan's "Broken-Hearted Melody," and The
> Platters' masterpiece, "Smoke Gets in Your Eyes" is ... pardon my
> French ... an idiot.

And what about someone who denies a place in history to Otis Redding,
Howlin' Wolf, Muddy Waters, Rosco Gordon, Chuck Willis, The
Temptations, Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles and Little Richard?

What would you call that person?

[Michael Pendragon]

Never heard of Rosco Gordon myself, but ... what to just person would
you be referring?

Certainly not Michael Pendragon. I recognize the historical
significance of most of the above artists *within their particular
genre*. Redding's one song, and certainly the last 4 artists you've
named have a place in mainstream cultural history as well. The fact
that their records stink on ice notwithstanding.

[The Bloomfield Buddy]

On May 20, 2:14 pm, Michael Pendragon

Redding had 11 different songs that made the top 40 on the pop charts,
along with 6 albums that made the top 40 on the pop albums charts,
including two that were top ten on that chart.

Are you claiming that he's not a part of mainstream cultural history?

Not to mention that he wrote one of the biggest songs of all time
(Respect).

[Michael Pendragon]

> Redding had 11 different songs that made the top 40 on the pop charts,
> along with 6 albums that made the top 40 on the pop albums charts,
> including two that were top ten on that chart.

VF Music ranks him as #599 out of the top 1000.

Pat Boone, otoh, is ranked at #44.

That makes Mr. Boone's little toe worth approximately *15* complete
Otis Reddings.

>Are you claiming that he's not a part of mainstream cultural history?

A part. Just not nearly so big a part as that played by Mr. Boone.

> Not to mention that he wrote one of the biggest songs of all time
> (Respect).

However, the name associated with "Respect" is Aretha Franklin's.
I'll bet more people would associate it with Candice Bergen than they
would with Mr. Redding.

[PStoller]

***** Tommy Edwards -- It's All In The Game -- M-G-M 12688 -- 1958
Guy Mitchell -- Singing The Blues -- Columbia 40769 -- 1956

Bobby Darin -- Mack The Knife -- Atco 6147 -- 1959
***** Nat "King" Cole -- Mona Lisa -- Capitol 1010 -- 1950

Dean Martin -- Memories Are Made Of This -- Capitol 3295 -- 1955
***** Bobby Darin -- Beyond The Sea -- Atco 6158 -- 1960

***** The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury 71383 -- 1958
Sarah Vaughan -- Broken Hearted Melody -- Mercury 71477 -- 1959

============================================================
No abstentions.

[Michael Pendragon]

In case anyone other than Bruce is following this conversation, my
mentioning Pat Boone refers to a similar discussion Bruce and I are
currently in the midst of in another thread. (I'm getting my threads
tangled.)

[xpen...@gmail.com]

Scarlotti and Sharx.
>
>

[Michael Pendragon]

What would you call a man with his head so far up his butt that he
sees the bones of his spent gerbils?

Oops! That'd be Tommy Blumenthal.

Let's try again.

What would you call a man with his head so far up his butt that he can
chew his food again on the way down?

Hint: His initials are "D.P."

[Michael Pendragon]

Here's a pro-Otis review. It praises him to the skies, but openly
acknowledges his one-hit wonder status:

"Otis Redding is a posthumous one-hit wonder, but his promise of soul
remains forever imprinted in the genre’s music history. Otis Redding:
The Best See & Hear is a CD/DVD set that celebrates the short four-
year career the singer enjoyed before a tragic plane crash cut future
access to Redding’s rich well of musical potential.

"Inducted into the Rock ‘n‘ Roll Hall of Fame in 1989, he is honored
for his commanding vocals and downright soul that often brought even
himself to his knees. The master of soul is another instance of an
artist ahead of his time. Despite his aptitude for singing and
songwriting, Redding never saw a single of his recordings ascend
higher than No. 21 on the pop top-40 Billboard charts."

http://www.dailyiowanmedia.com/live/2009/10/20/review-otis-redding/

[Sharx35]

"The Bloomfield Buddy" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:adc1eb17-92bc-4c2c...@z10g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

It's NOT Michael who is obsessed with race, Bruce!

[Sharx35]

"The Bloomfield Buddy" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:f01cd545-dc21-4db5...@j4g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

But when "Whitey" acts like "Blacky", you, Bruce, call "Whitey" a
thief.


>
>
>

[Sharx35]

"Michael Pendragon" <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote in
message
news:5244afcb-4e5b-4106...@a8g2000yqp.googlegroups.com...

Or, in severe need of a consultation with a hearing specialist AND
a total music RE-education. In his OWN words, "it's what comes out
of the speakers that counts" and what comes out of the speakers
when the above 4 artists sing those 4 songs is DAMN, FINE MUSIC.

[Sharx35]

"The Bloomfield Buddy" <Sav...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:8c1d8196-47fe-4df4...@i3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...

What I would call YOU, is a person, realizing that they have LOST
the argument, who is DESPERATELY trying to change the subject. The
varying qualifications of your above-noted artists has NOTHING TO
DO with the great abilities of the PREVIOUSLY mentioned 4 artists
when they did the 4 records in question.




>
>
>

[Sharx35]

"Mark Dintenfass" <mdint...@xxnew.rr.com> wrote in message
news:200520130913318237%mdint...@xxnew.rr.com...

> In article <5199bd80...@news.virginmedia.com>, Roger Ford
> <mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >***** The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury
>> >71383 -- 1958
>> > Sarah Vaughan -- Broken Hearted Melody -- Mercury 71477 --
>> > 1959
>>
>> If I were a betting man I'd go with the Platters as most likely
>> to win
>> this whole thing
>
> There's only one song left I'd vote for over the Platters, but it
> may
> not get through this round. If it does, Nat might take the
> Platters
> down.
>

Not "might", "will".

[xpen...@gmail.com]

What would you call a failed poet, and writer of short stories with a
long commute everyday to a dead end job for a thuggish union that
advocates issues that he doesn't believe in?

[Steve Mc]

Tommy Edwards -- It's All In The Game -- M-G-M 12688 -- 1958

***** Guy Mitchell -- Singing The Blues -- Columbia 40769 -- 1956

***** Bobby Darin -- Mack The Knife -- Atco 6147 -- 1959

Nat "King" Cole -- Mona Lisa -- Capitol 1010 -- 1950

***** Dean Martin -- Memories Are Made Of This -- Capitol 3295 -- 1955

Bobby Darin -- Beyond The Sea -- Atco 6158 -- 1960

***** The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury 71383 -- 1958
Sarah Vaughan -- Broken Hearted Melody -- Mercury 71477 -- 1959

============================================================
No abstentions.


-- Steve Mc

dna to sbc to respond

[The Bloomfield Buddy]

On May 20, 5:22 pm, xpene...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> What would you call a failed poet, and writer of short stories with a
> long commute everyday to a dead end job for a thuggish union that
> advocates issues that he doesn't believe in?

A bill paying sap.

[ordina...@gmail.com]

The Ballad Of Fudge-Packer Pendragon:

"When he took up the gay life, Scarlotti
Developed problems going to the potty

To end his dilemma
He got a HIGH enema

Now he hasn't a brain in his body."

-------------------------------------------------
{Editor's note: which should explain a lot}

[Marc Dashevsky]

In article <200520130913318237%mdint...@xxnew.rr.com>, mdint...@xxnew.rr.com says...

>
> In article <5199bd80...@news.virginmedia.com>, Roger Ford
> <mari...@bblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > >***** The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury 71383 -- 1958
> > > Sarah Vaughan -- Broken Hearted Melody -- Mercury 71477 -- 1959
> >
> > If I were a betting man I'd go with the Platters as most likely to win
> > this whole thing
>
> There's only one song left I'd vote for over the Platters, but it may
> not get through this round. If it does, Nat might take the Platters
> down.

Ditto

[Dean F.]

On Monday, May 20, 2013 5:22:27 PM UTC-4, xpen...@gmail.com wrote:

> What would you call a failed poet, and writer of short stories with a
> long commute everyday to a dead end job for a thuggish union that
> advocates issues that he doesn't believe in?

I'd call him a family man with bills to pay.

[The Bloomfield Buddy]

Are you going through one of your trying not to be immature phases
again, or is this just a case of you thinking that Doug is a bigger
asshole than Pendragon?

[Dean F.]

On Monday, May 20, 2013 9:28:26 PM UTC-4, The Bloomfield Buddy wrote:

> > I'd call him a family man with bills to pay.

> Are you going through one of your trying not to be immature phases
> again, or is this just a case of you thinking that Doug is a bigger
> asshole than Pendragon?

The latter. In this instance, at least.

I deeply resent Doug's holier-than-thou attitude toward the working class. What, exactly, does he do for a living that he thinks is so goddamned superior to how the rest of us earn our paychecks? Inquiring minds want to know, Mr. P!

[Michael Pendragon]

On May 20, 7:47 pm, "stargazer...@gmail.com" <ordinaryt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Well, that's not really worth a new pome from The Pendragon, so I'll
just replay a few of my greatest hits:

GERBIL POME

Here comes Tom from "The City of Brotherly Love"
Inserting his hand in a rubbery glove
Then, finger in hole, he doth swish it about
Trying to wrestle the young gerbil out.


PHILE-Y GUY

He lurks outside the playground
His trenchcoat opened wide
No bloomers on this "Bloomy"
Who's got not a thing to hide.

He gawks at little Billy
Much as one in a trance --
And what's the sticky white stuff
All over Joey's pants?

With one hand on his willy
And one down Johnny's shorts
This gentleman from Philly
Moans and wheezes, grunts and snorts.

He jizzes on the jungle gym
He whizzes on the swing
He takes a leak on little Tim
And sings "My Ding-A-Ling."

But when the Principal arrives
Tom can no longer play
But buttons up his family jewels
And quickly runs away.


LOVE IN BLOOM

It seems to me Tom's "poetry"
Amounts to a confession --
His darts misspent at Scarlotti
Bespeak Love's mad obsession.

Month follows month, year mimics year
Whilst little Tom doth fret
In heated fits of passion queer
O'er _one_ he can't forget.

Tongue hanging out, Tom skulks about
Beseeching but a word --
Yet one more jibe o'er which to pout ...
A goose were less absurd!

Each night, each day, Tom hacks away
Typing Scarlotti's name --
In lovelorn doggerel verses fey
He sings Scarlotti's fame.

A tireless suitor Tom didst prove --
A lifelong occupation.
Scarlotti's heart he might not move
Yet Tom found compensation ...

Releasing unrequited love
In ceaseless masturbation.


FILLY GUY

Tom had a little pony
Its schlong was long and pink
Tom wrapped his tongue around it
While he diddled at its sphinc.
The pony he got flummoxed
(As ponies sometimes do)
He mounted Tommy's buttocks
(And sure his aim was true).
He rammed his rod up Tommy's bum
So far (the story goes)
Each time that long, long schlong doth cum
It squirts out Tommy's nose.

[The Bloomfield Buddy]

He does some kind of graphic arts.

[The Bloomfield Buddy]

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/doug-peneny/1/43a/804

[Dean F.]

On Monday, May 20, 2013 11:20:39 PM UTC-4, The Bloomfield Buddy wrote:

> > I deeply resent Doug's holier-than-thou attitude toward the working class.
> > What, exactly, does he do for a living that he thinks is so goddamned
> > superior to how the rest of us earn our paychecks? Inquiring minds want to
> > know, Mr. P!

> He does some kind of graphic arts.

And how does that make him better than the rest of us?

[The Bloomfield Buddy]

I guess he's one of these Republicans who thinks that everybody
shoulod start their own business.

[Dean F.]

On Monday, May 20, 2013 11:27:19 PM UTC-4, The Bloomfield Buddy wrote:

> I guess he's one of these Republicans who thinks that everybody
> shoulod start their own business.

And who the hell would those businesses employ? The working stiffs that Doug regards as subhuman!

[Sharx35]

"Dean F." <soule...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:60793587-bfc2-41ba...@googlegroups.com...

Some of you guys really seem to have an inferiority complex.
Deservedly so, perhaps?

[Michael Pendragon]

Well he's sure a thing against unions.

[RWC]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 00:26:09 -0600, "Sharx35" <sha...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>My choices:
>
>***** Tommy Edwards -- It's All In The Game -- M-G-M 12688 -- 1958

> Guy Mitchell -- Singing The Blues -- Columbia 40769 -- 1956
>

> Bobby Darin -- Mack The Knife -- Atco 6147 -- 1959

>***** Nat "King" Cole -- Mona Lisa -- Capitol 1010 -- 1950

>
>***** Dean Martin -- Memories Are Made Of This -- Capitol 3295 --
>1955
> Bobby Darin -- Beyond The Sea -- Atco 6158 -- 1960
>

> The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury 71383 -- 1958

>***** Sarah Vaughan -- Broken Hearted Melody -- Mercury 71477 --
>1959
>
Dave, I agree strongly with your last 3 votes (for whatever collection of
personal psychological reasons - like most folk I can only attempt to speculate
what these reasons are).

But why, may I ask, do you prefer the ambience of 'going nowhere' "It's All In
The Game" - over the more tense, exciting, and 'alert and ready for anything in
the future' "Singing The Blues"?

Could it simply be the relative cruisy down home warmth of "It's All In The
Game", that influenced you, compared to the faster paced and less warm "Singing
The Blues" ?

Perhaps just a gut feel preference, fair enough.

All choices are determined by an individual's personal background and consequent
unique psychological mindset - yes, I'm stating the obvious, but this means an
individual's view (mine, Bruce's, Frank's, Mike's, Roger's, etc) is prima facie,
no more valuable than anyone elses (subject to one's personal ego of course :-)

I enjoy both "It's All In The Game" and "Singing The Blues".
They each have different positive qualities that I relate to. On balance, I
slightly prefer the more invigorating "Singing The Blues".


Geoff

[Sharx35]

"RWC" wrote in message
news:rcslp858jrjrrlcmh...@4ax.com...

Geoff, perhaps I should have abstained. I enjoy them both, as you,
yourself, mentioned. Some days I might have voted for the Mitchell
entry. Bottom line, they are both damn fine records. I might as
well as flipped a coin...that's how similar my feelings are for
them.

[Michael Pendragon]

On May 21, 2:19 am, RWC wrote:

I like both records. But despite the fact that Guy Mitchell is one of
my top 5 fav male vocalists, I'd have to go with "It's All in the
Game." For me, it's the arrangement and (especially) the background
vocals that hook me. It's got that perfect blend of styles (1911
melody, 1951 lyrics, lush arrangement, "heavenly" choir, and lite
r'n'r beat) that typifies everything I love about 1950s music. As
great as "Singing the Blues" is, its arrangement is a little too
sparse.

[xpen...@gmail.com]

It looks like I hit a nerve with you, Dean.

[xpen...@gmail.com]

Well thank you for telling me what I think, Dean.

[xpen...@gmail.com]

On Mon, 20 May 2013 21:40:53 -0600, "Sharx35" <sha...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

Dean is just unhappy with his lot in life.

[Michael Pendragon]

On May 21, 2:17 pm, xpene...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 20:25:44 -0700 (PDT), "Dean F."
>

> <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, May 20, 2013 11:20:39 PM UTC-4, The Bloomfield Buddy wrote:
>
> >> > I deeply resent Doug's holier-than-thou attitude toward the working class.
> >> > What, exactly, does he do for a living that he thinks is so goddamned
> >> > superior to how the rest of us earn our paychecks? Inquiring minds want to
> >> > know, Mr. P!
>
> >> He does some kind of graphic arts.
>
> >And how does that make him better than the rest of us?

If his "History of Rock and Roll" website is any indication of his
talents in this field, he can't be very successful at it.

[The Bloomfield Buddy]

On May 21, 2:40 pm, Michael Pendragon

He also is a male model:

http://www.dbusiness.com/DBusiness/May-June-2012/1-800-LAW-FIRM-Office-Opening/index.php?mode=popup&cp=3&view=slideshow&play=0

[Clifford Blau]

***** Tommy Edwards -- It's All In The Game -- M-G-M 12688 -- 1958
Guy Mitchell -- Singing The Blues -- Columbia 40769 -- 1956

***** The Platters -- Smoke Gets In Your Eyes -- Mercury 71383 --
1958

Sarah Vaughan -- Broken Hearted Melody -- Mercury 71477 --
1959

============================================================
Abstentions:

Bobby Darin -- Mack The Knife -- Atco 6147 -- 1959

Nat "King" Cole -- Mona Lisa -- Capitol 1010 -- 1950

Dean Martin -- Memories Are Made Of This -- Capitol 3295 -- 1955
Bobby Darin -- Beyond The Sea -- Atco 6158 -- 1960

"Curse you, Don Tickles, Notary Public!"

[Sharx35]

"Michael Pendragon" <michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote in
message
news:7648059b-1003-4ecd...@k6g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...

Michael, you put into words what I was incapable of, re your
reasons for preferring IAITG.

[Sharx35]

<xpen...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9senp8lque8svotud...@4ax.com...

I just don't understand why Dean went apeshit over this. He usually
is much more taciturn. We all have our own opinions about politics,
economics, gender issues, whether certain orifices are meant to be
one-way or two-way, etc., etc..






>

[ordina...@gmail.com]

The Ballad Of Michael Fudgepacker, part II:

"When Pendragon started to use
Animals in patterns of sexual self-abuse

The shame of acts so vile
Led him deep into denial

And even to frame someone else in a ruse."

[ordina...@gmail.com]

The Ballad Of Michael Fudgepacker, part 3:

"The once was gay names Scarlotti
Who had the usual love of sodomy

He went to the zoo,
To try something new

And was crushed by enraged hippopatomi."

[Michael Pendragon]

On May 21, 6:26 pm, "stargazer...@gmail.com" <ordinaryt...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Dude, a limerick ain't rocket science!

There once was a faggot named Nick
Who liked boys to play with his dick
They yanked it and wanked it
And spanked it and cranked it
And beat it all night with a stick

[RWC]

I understand your preference for a richer, and so on, arrangement, Mike.

However, relative sparseness and relative lack of sophistication in arrangement
is not exactly a crime for someone like me :D - someone who digs the best of
modest ensemble rockabilly and other down home 'garage' genres that have less
'production' than your 50s charting pop.

A factor that might strongly influence my preference for STB is my emotive
predilection for vocals with an ambience of positive tension or angst (which has
significant and meaningful positive symbolism in itself - for me at least) - a
quality certainly present in Guy's rendition of STB (and which is why I've
always enjoyed the hits of Del Shannon, Freddy Cannon, and Dion DiMucci -
seemingly one of the great trademark singing styles of the rock-pop cusp era)

An awesome example of a tension record BTW is the unique "It's Only Make
Believe" by Conway Twitty. Yes, a simple, repetitive even, melody BUT...
(poster replacing live 50s TV sound with the record)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJefPaBsSug
(#1 apparently, on both sides of the Atlantic, but that's by the by)


Geoff

[Michael Pendragon]

On May 22, 10:24 am, RWC wrote:
> On Tue, 21 May 2013 06:25:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
>

> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On May 21, 2:19 am, RWC wrote:
>
> >> I enjoy both "It's All In The Game" and "Singing The Blues".
> >> They each have different positive qualities that I relate to. On balance, I
> >> slightly prefer the more invigorating "Singing The Blues".
>
> >I like both records.  But despite the fact that Guy Mitchell is one of
> >my top 5 fav male vocalists, I'd have to go with "It's All in the
> >Game."  For me, it's the arrangement and (especially) the background
> >vocals that hook me.  It's got that perfect blend of styles (1911
> >melody, 1951 lyrics, lush arrangement, "heavenly" choir, and lite
> >r'n'r beat) that typifies everything I love about 1950s music.  As
> >great as "Singing the Blues" is, its arrangement is a little too
> >sparse.
>
> I understand your preference for a richer, and so on, arrangement, Mike.
>
> However, relative sparseness and relative lack of sophistication in arrangement
> is not exactly a crime for someone like me :D - someone who digs the best of
> modest ensemble rockabilly and other down home 'garage' genres that have less
> 'production' than your 50s charting pop.

It's definitely not a crime. A great singer (like Guy Mitchell) could
be accompanied by a single guitar, a piano, or could sing a
cappella.

But the success (artistically) of such a record rests entirely on the
singer's voice. And when pitted against an equally talented singer
with a full arrangement, the latter has a decided edge.

> A factor that might strongly influence my preference for STB is my emotive
> predilection for vocals with an ambience of positive tension or angst (which has
> significant and meaningful positive symbolism in itself - for me at least) - a
> quality certainly present in Guy's rendition of STB (and which is why I've
> always enjoyed the hits of Del Shannon, Freddy Cannon, and Dion DiMucci -
> seemingly one of the great trademark singing styles of the rock-pop cusp era)

That's an interesting p.o.v. I know just what you're talking about
and agree that it's present in the vocals of the above mentioned
artists. It's what I hear in the classic pop songs of many of my
favorite singers. However, I don't know if it carries through in the
bulk of the music from the cusp years.

> An awesome example of a tension record BTW is the unique "It's Only Make
> Believe" by Conway Twitty.  Yes, a simple, repetitive even, melody BUT...

> (poster replacing live 50s TV sound with the record)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJefPaBsSug

> (#1 apparently, on both sides of the Atlantic, but that's by the by)

I've always like this record, but never considered it unique. Quite
the opposite: it's a typical quasi-operatic Elvis Presley ballad from
that period. Like many people I suspect, I spent some years laboring
under the misconception that it *was* an EP record.

[RWC]

On Wed, 22 May 2013 07:53:18 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:

>A great singer (like Guy Mitchell) could
>be accompanied by a single guitar, a piano, or could sing a
>cappella.
>But the success (artistically) of such a record rests entirely on the
>singer's voice. And when pitted against an equally talented singer
>with a full arrangement, the latter has a decided edge.
>

But this ignores the atmospherics created by the singer's style of singing on a
partular record - which can override considerations of arrangement, or if you
like this is an important part of the arrangement.

>
>> A factor that might strongly influence my preference for STB is my emotive
>> predilection for vocals with an ambience of positive tension or angst (which has
>> significant and meaningful positive symbolism in itself - for me at least) - a
>> quality certainly present in Guy's rendition of STB (and which is why I've
>> always enjoyed the hits of Del Shannon, Freddy Cannon, and Dion DiMucci -
>> seemingly one of the great trademark singing styles of the rock-pop cusp era)
>
>That's an interesting p.o.v. I know just what you're talking about
>and agree that it's present in the vocals of the above mentioned
>artists.

> It's what I hear in the classic pop songs of many of my
>favorite singers.

But usually, the vocal in classic pop songs are not as intense. What classic
pop songs have the vocal tension as heard in "Runaway" for instance (leaving
aside one or two Johnnie Ray records).

> However, I don't know if it carries through in the
>bulk of the music from the cusp years.

I did just say 'one' of the trademarks of cusp music.
Apart from isolated records (such as "Cry"), I don't recall such a quantity of
intense white angst records before or after the cusp period.

BTW whenever I talk with enthusiasm about this style of singing, I recall Marc
(yes with a c) telling me off, some years ago, with words to the effect that not
all folk appreciate such (tension/angst) singing. For some reason, and with a
smile, the bias in me can't resist feeling a bit sorry for these seemingly staid
folk :-)

>
>> An awesome example of a tension record BTW is the unique "It's Only Make
>> Believe" by Conway Twitty.  Yes, a simple, repetitive even, melody BUT...
>> (poster replacing live 50s TV sound with the record)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJefPaBsSug
>> (#1 apparently, on both sides of the Atlantic, but that's by the by)
>
>I've always like this record, but never considered it unique. Quite
>the opposite: it's a typical quasi-operatic Elvis Presley ballad from
>that period.

I do like your 'quasi-operatic Elvis Presley ballad' phrase, Mike.
To be fair, I did not reveal in any detail my reason for claiming this Conway
Twitty record to be 'unique'.
It's unique because of the blatant, in your face, steady gradual rising of vocal
tension to a climax. I bet nobody can name three other songs from the 50's that
are of a similar style. (and 4 [if there are 4] out of 100,000+ is still unique
in my book)

> Like many people I suspect, I spent some years laboring
>under the misconception that it *was* an EP record.

Really? I guess this comes from being immersed, in your youth, in classic pop
(and some current music perhaps), perceiving classic rock'n'roll as just being a
vague past sideshow to classic pop, not worthy of detailed knowledge. Fine,
okay.


Geoff

[Michael Pendragon]

On May 23, 2:50 am, RWC wrote:
> On Wed, 22 May 2013 07:53:18 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
>

> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >A great singer (like Guy Mitchell) could
> >be accompanied by a single guitar, a piano, or could sing a
> >cappella.
> >But the success (artistically) of such a record rests entirely on the
> >singer's voice.  And when pitted against an equally talented singer
> >with a full arrangement, the latter has a decided edge.
>
> But this ignores the atmospherics created by the singer's style of singing on a
> partular record - which can override considerations of arrangement, or if you
> like this is an important part of the arrangement.

I'm not denying the value of the singer's style. I'm saying that in
cases like the one in question, where the vocals are equally great,
the record with the better arrangement will win out.

> >> A factor that might strongly influence my preference for STB is my emotive
> >> predilection for vocals with an ambience of positive tension or angst (which has
> >> significant and meaningful positive symbolism in itself - for me at least) - a
> >> quality certainly present in Guy's rendition of STB (and which is why I've
> >> always enjoyed the hits of Del Shannon, Freddy Cannon, and Dion DiMucci -
> >> seemingly one of the great trademark singing styles of the rock-pop cusp era)
>
> >That's an interesting p.o.v.  I know just what you're talking about
> >and agree that it's present in the vocals of the above mentioned
> >artists.
> > It's what I hear in the classic pop songs of many of my
> >favorite singers.
>
> But usually, the vocal in classic pop songs are not as intense.  What classic
> pop songs have the vocal tension as heard in "Runaway" for instance (leaving
> aside one or two Johnnie Ray records).

One or two???

I don't see how "Runaway" is any more intense than your average
classic pop record. To take but one example from yesterday's HLL
playlist, I think that Gayla Peevey's vocal on "Too Young (To Have a
Broken Heart)" is far more emotionally intense than Del Shannon's
"Runaway."

> > However, I don't know if it carries through in the
> >bulk of the music from the cusp years.
>
> I did just say 'one' of the trademarks of cusp music.
> Apart from isolated records (such as "Cry"), I don't recall such a quantity of
> intense white angst records before or after the cusp period.

I'm flabbergasted.

"Tennessee Waltz," "Our Heartbreaking Waltz," "Smile," "Pretend," "Let
Me Go Lover," "Wheel of Fortune," "I'm Just a Poor Bachelor," "While
You Danced, Danced, Danced," "How Did He Look?," "How About Me?,"
"Here in My Heart," "You Don't Know Me," "A Sinner Am I," "I Can Dream
Can't I?," "Not Like a Sister," "You'll Never Be Mine," etc.

These songs are all about unrequited (even hopeless) longing, loss,
and unfulfilled dreams. Apart from some of Johnnie Ray's more extreme
psychodramas like "Mountains in the Moonlight," it doesn't get any
angstier than this.

>
> BTW whenever I talk with enthusiasm about this style of singing, I recall Marc
> (yes with a c) telling me off, some years ago, with words to the effect that not
> all folk appreciate such (tension/angst) singing. For some reason, and with a
> smile, the bias in me can't resist feeling a bit sorry for these seemingly staid
> folk :-)
>
>
>
> >> An awesome example of a tension record BTW is the unique "It's Only Make
> >> Believe" by Conway Twitty.  Yes, a simple, repetitive even, melody BUT...
> >> (poster replacing live 50s TV sound with the record)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJefPaBsSug
> >> (#1 apparently, on both sides of the Atlantic, but that's by the by)
>
> >I've always like this record, but never considered it unique.  Quite
> >the opposite: it's a typical quasi-operatic Elvis Presley ballad from
> >that period.
>
> I do like your 'quasi-operatic Elvis Presley ballad' phrase, Mike.
> To be fair, I did not reveal in any detail my reason for claiming this Conway
> Twitty record to be 'unique'.
> It's unique because of the blatant, in your face, steady gradual rising of vocal
> tension to a climax. I bet nobody can name three other songs from the 50's that
> are of a similar style. (and 4 [if there are 4] out of 100,000+ is still unique
> in my book)

Frankie Laine's "Jealousy (Jalousie)" immediately springs to mind.

> > Like many people I suspect, I spent some years laboring
> >under the misconception that it *was* an EP record.
>
> Really? I guess this comes from being immersed, in your youth, in classic pop
> (and some current music perhaps), perceiving classic rock'n'roll as just being a
> vague past sideshow to classic pop, not worthy of detailed knowledge. Fine,
> okay.

No, it came from my having heard it on the radio and thinking "that's
a good Elvis song." It just sounds so much like Elvis, that I never
thought to check that it might not be him.

[Frank]

Geoff>

An awesome example of a tension record BTW is the unique "It's Only Make
>> Believe" by Conway Twitty. Yes, a simple, repetitive even, melody BUT...
>> (poster replacing live 50s TV sound with the record)

Besides IOMB, how about Orbison's "Running Scared" and "It's Over" as tension builders?
Of more recent vintage, the Bocelli/Brightman version of "Time to Say Goodbye" as beautiful and poignant a song as I've ever heard comes to mind. It's operatic, not pop or rock (obviously) although towards the end there's a drumbeat a bit similar to "Running Scared" as it builds and of course the high notes at the end are breathtaking.

BTW, when I first heard the name Conway Twitty, I thought it could have a subliminal connection, like the sound itself, to the name Elvis Presley.....first and last names I never heard of. Then along came Ersel Hickey and Ferlin Husky ;-)

[Michael Pendragon]

On May 23, 12:47 pm, Frank <espon...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Geoff>
>  An awesome example of a tension record BTW is the unique "It's Only Make
>
> >> Believe" by Conway Twitty.  Yes, a simple, repetitive even, melody BUT...
> >> (poster replacing live 50s TV sound with the record)
>
> Besides IOMB, how about Orbison's "Running Scared" and "It's Over" as tension builders?

I was thinking of those as well. Also Frankie Laine's 1960 "Journey's
End" which could easily stand as a prototype of both (I'm not saying
it is, only that it sounds a *lot* like them).

> Of more recent vintage, the Bocelli/Brightman version of "Time to Say Goodbye" as beautiful and poignant a song as I've ever heard comes to mind. It's operatic, not pop or rock (obviously) although towards the end there's a drumbeat a bit similar to "Running Scared" as it builds and of course the high notes at the end are breathtaking.

I'm not familiar with that one. I did check out one or two Sarah
Brightman tunes at youtube some time back, but only recall that they
weren't to my taste.

>
> BTW, when I first heard the name Conway Twitty, I thought it could have a subliminal connection, like the sound itself, to the name Elvis Presley.....first and last names I never heard of. Then along came Ersel Hickey and Ferlin Husky ;-)

The odd thing is that Harold Jenkins actually chose to call himself
"Conway Twitty." I guess in those pre-Python days, the British term
"twit" had yet to reach the U.S.

[Frank]

Brightman is a bit shrill and has some affectations I don't like.
Bocelli's blindness (speaking of blindness) IMO makes him more appealing, looking very vulnerable and innocent. He's not highly regarded among opera purists, but he's fine for me. Several years ago he took the daunting task of performing a complete opera. Besides having to memorize the libretto, it was in full costume with scenery. He also had to know where all the stage props were as well.

Anyway, with no prompting, here's "Time to Say Goodbye" with Brightman and Bocelli. You might want to skip Sarah's solo part and start at the 3:00 mark, or the real build-up and final high note which starts around the 4:00 mark. It gives me chills.....dammit.
Listen to the orchestral build up during the last minute....somewhat like "Running Scared"?

I doubt if you'll like this and maybe very, very few others would as well. Good luck ;-)

[RWC]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 08:21:46 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 23, 2:50 am, RWC wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 May 2013 07:53:18 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
>>
>> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >A great singer (like Guy Mitchell) could
>> >be accompanied by a single guitar, a piano, or could sing a
>> >cappella.
>> >But the success (artistically) of such a record rests entirely on the
>> >singer's voice.  And when pitted against an equally talented singer
>> >with a full arrangement, the latter has a decided edge.
>>
>> But this ignores the atmospherics created by the singer's style of singing on a
>> partular record - which can override considerations of arrangement, or if you
>> like this is an important part of the arrangement.
>
>I'm not denying the value of the singer's style. I'm saying that in
>cases like the one in question, where the vocals are equally great,
>the record with the better arrangement will win out.
>

Regarding these two records, it's banal to say the "the vocals are equally
great". You are either insensitive to, or with calculation, ignoring my
atmospherics argument :-)

>> >> A factor that might strongly influence my preference for STB is my emotive
>> >> predilection for vocals with an ambience of positive tension or angst (which has
>> >> significant and meaningful positive symbolism in itself - for me at least) - a
>> >> quality certainly present in Guy's rendition of STB (and which is why I've
>> >> always enjoyed the hits of Del Shannon, Freddy Cannon, and Dion DiMucci -
>> >> seemingly one of the great trademark singing styles of the rock-pop cusp era)
>>
>> >That's an interesting p.o.v.  I know just what you're talking about
>> >and agree that it's present in the vocals of the above mentioned
>> >artists.
>> > It's what I hear in the classic pop songs of many of my
>> >favorite singers.
>>
>> But usually, the vocal in classic pop songs are not as intense.  What classic
>> pop songs have the vocal tension as heard in "Runaway" for instance (leaving
>> aside one or two Johnnie Ray records).
>
>One or two???
>
>I don't see how "Runaway" is any more intense than your average
>classic pop record.

You must be joking, Mr Provocateur (thanks Frank :-)

>To take but one example from yesterday's HLL
>playlist, I think that Gayla Peevey's vocal on "Too Young (To Have a
>Broken Heart)" is far more emotionally intense than Del Shannon's
>"Runaway."

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCFxGzYhsng
>
Yes, sure :-))) OMG There is a major disconnect in our understanding of vocal
intensity.

>
>> > However, I don't know if it carries through in the
>> >bulk of the music from the cusp years.
>>
>> I did just say 'one' of the trademarks of cusp music.
>> Apart from isolated records (such as "Cry"), I don't recall such a quantity of
>> intense white angst records before or after the cusp period.
>
>I'm flabbergasted.
>
>"Tennessee Waltz," "Our Heartbreaking Waltz," "Smile," "Pretend," "Let
>Me Go Lover," "Wheel of Fortune," "I'm Just a Poor Bachelor," "While
>You Danced, Danced, Danced," "How Did He Look?," "How About Me?,"
>"Here in My Heart," "You Don't Know Me," "A Sinner Am I," "I Can Dream
>Can't I?," "Not Like a Sister," "You'll Never Be Mine," etc.
>
>These songs are all about unrequited (even hopeless) longing, loss,
>and unfulfilled dreams. Apart from some of Johnnie Ray's more extreme
>psychodramas like "Mountains in the Moonlight," it doesn't get any
>angstier than this.
>

Mike, I admit, with regard to this debate I'm not taking into account the lyrics
(yes, this might be sadly unsophisticated and pathetic from your p.o.v.). Lyrics
seem to be a major factor in what turns you on - which might explain our
disconnect. For me, the *sound* of the vocal in 'Runaway" slays the vocal in
"Tennessee Waltz", etc, with regard to angst/tension and its important symbolic
meaning.

>

>> >> An awesome example of a tension record BTW is the unique "It's Only Make
>> >> Believe" by Conway Twitty.  Yes, a simple, repetitive even, melody BUT...
>> >> (poster replacing live 50s TV sound with the record)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJefPaBsSug
>> >> (#1 apparently, on both sides of the Atlantic, but that's by the by)
>>
>> >I've always like this record, but never considered it unique.  Quite
>> >the opposite: it's a typical quasi-operatic Elvis Presley ballad from
>> >that period.
>>
>> I do like your 'quasi-operatic Elvis Presley ballad' phrase, Mike.
>> To be fair, I did not reveal in any detail my reason for claiming this Conway
>> Twitty record to be 'unique'.
>> It's unique because of the blatant, in your face, steady gradual rising of vocal
>> tension to a climax. I bet nobody can name three other songs from the 50's that
>> are of a similar style. (and 4 [if there are 4] out of 100,000+ is still unique
>> in my book)
>
>Frankie Laine's "Jealousy (Jalousie)" immediately springs to mind.

Definitely, and I enjoy this rich and, mellow yet exciting, record.


Geoff

[Frank]

I guess it would help if I put up the link to TTSG....know what I mean?
http://youtu.be/Nl9WMIPzd6w

[Michael Pendragon]

On May 23, 2:14 pm, RWC wrote:
> On Thu, 23 May 2013 08:21:46 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
>
>
>
>
>
> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On May 23, 2:50 am, RWC wrote:
> >> On Wed, 22 May 2013 07:53:18 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
>
> >> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >A great singer (like Guy Mitchell) could
> >> >be accompanied by a single guitar, a piano, or could sing a
> >> >cappella.
> >> >But the success (artistically) of such a record rests entirely on the
> >> >singer's voice.  And when pitted against an equally talented singer
> >> >with a full arrangement, the latter has a decided edge.
>
> >> But this ignores the atmospherics created by the singer's style of singing on a
> >> partular record - which can override considerations of arrangement, or if you
> >> like this is an important part of the arrangement.
>
> >I'm not denying the value of the singer's style.  I'm saying that in
> >cases like the one in question, where the vocals are equally great,
> >the record with the better arrangement will win out.
>
> Regarding these two records, it's banal to say the "the vocals are equally
> great".  You are either insensitive to, or with calculation, ignoring my
> atmospherics argument :-)

Neither. I feel that both Tommy Edwards and Guy Mitchell's vocals
create an emotionally charged atmosphere independent of the
orchestration.

Both records are, IMHO, included among the select batch of super hits
that I consider "era-defining."

Choosing between them is a tough call, but if forced to, the wonderful
orchestration on "IAITG" gives it a (very) slight edge.

> >> >> A factor that might strongly influence my preference for STB is my emotive
> >> >> predilection for vocals with an ambience of positive tension or angst (which has
> >> >> significant and meaningful positive symbolism in itself - for me at least) - a
> >> >> quality certainly present in Guy's rendition of STB (and which is why I've
> >> >> always enjoyed the hits of Del Shannon, Freddy Cannon, and Dion DiMucci -
> >> >> seemingly one of the great trademark singing styles of the rock-pop cusp era)
>
> >> >That's an interesting p.o.v.  I know just what you're talking about
> >> >and agree that it's present in the vocals of the above mentioned
> >> >artists.
> >> > It's what I hear in the classic pop songs of many of my
> >> >favorite singers.
>
> >> But usually, the vocal in classic pop songs are not as intense.  What classic
> >> pop songs have the vocal tension as heard in "Runaway" for instance (leaving
> >> aside one or two Johnnie Ray records).
>
> >One or two???
>
> >I don't see how "Runaway" is any more intense than your average
> >classic pop record.
>
> You must be joking, Mr Provocateur (thanks Frank :-)

No, I'm quite serious.

I've always liked "Runaway," but I don't see it as being exceptionally
emotional (that is, any more emotional than the bulk of 50s pop).
There's a certain amount of "intensity" in the arrangement
(particularly the signature keyboard solo), but the vocal itself isn't
reaching me on anywhere near the level you seem to be experiencing.

> >To take but one example from yesterday's HLL
> >playlist, I think that Gayla Peevey's vocal on "Too Young (To Have a
> >Broken Heart)" is far more emotionally intense than Del Shannon's
> >"Runaway."
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCFxGzYhsng
>
> Yes, sure :-))) OMG There is a major disconnect in our understanding of vocal
> intensity.

I picked that example, in part, because it's a typical "teen pop"
record. I don't know if you're familiar with this record, but the
lyric alone should provide an understanding of the song's angst-ridden
theme: Miss Peevey is being told that she's too young to experience
real love, and consequently real hurt from its loss, but she
nevertheless feel the pain to the extent that her world has fallen
apart. The combination of heartbreak/despair over a lost love and the
frustration over everyone's refusal to take her loss seriously is
devastating.

> >> > However, I don't know if it carries through in the
> >> >bulk of the music from the cusp years.
>
> >> I did just say 'one' of the trademarks of cusp music.
> >> Apart from isolated records (such as "Cry"), I don't recall such a quantity of
> >> intense white angst records before or after the cusp period.
>
> >I'm flabbergasted.
>
> >"Tennessee Waltz," "Our Heartbreaking Waltz," "Smile," "Pretend," "Let
> >Me Go Lover," "Wheel of Fortune," "I'm Just a Poor Bachelor," "While
> >You Danced, Danced, Danced," "How Did He Look?," "How About Me?,"
> >"Here in My Heart," "You Don't Know Me," "A Sinner Am I," "I Can Dream
> >Can't I?," "Not Like a Sister," "You'll Never Be Mine," etc.
>
> >These songs are all about unrequited (even hopeless) longing, loss,
> >and unfulfilled dreams.  Apart from some of Johnnie Ray's more extreme
> >psychodramas like "Mountains in the Moonlight," it doesn't get any
> >angstier than this.
>
> Mike, I admit, with regard to this debate I'm not taking into account the lyrics
> (yes, this might be sadly unsophisticated and pathetic from your p.o.v.). Lyrics
> seem to be a major factor in what turns you on - which might explain our
> disconnect.  For me, the *sound* of the vocal in 'Runaway" slays the vocal in
> "Tennessee Waltz", etc, with regard to angst/tension and its important symbolic
> meaning.

There's a slightly whiny edge to Del Shannon's delivery .... that's
all I'm really picking up from a vocal standpoint. Patti Page's vocal
is more subtle, but I hear real pain in her delivery of the line "I
remember the night" -- not an immediate pain, but a distant,
reflective pain that time can never fully heal.

> >> >> An awesome example of a tension record BTW is the unique "It's Only Make
> >> >> Believe" by Conway Twitty.  Yes, a simple, repetitive even, melody BUT...
> >> >> (poster replacing live 50s TV sound with the record)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJefPaBsSug
> >> >> (#1 apparently, on both sides of the Atlantic, but that's by the by)
>
> >> >I've always like this record, but never considered it unique.  Quite
> >> >the opposite: it's a typical quasi-operatic Elvis Presley ballad from
> >> >that period.
>
> >> I do like your 'quasi-operatic Elvis Presley ballad' phrase, Mike.
> >> To be fair, I did not reveal in any detail my reason for claiming this Conway
> >> Twitty record to be 'unique'.
> >> It's unique because of the blatant, in your face, steady gradual rising of vocal
> >> tension to a climax. I bet nobody can name three other songs from the 50's that
> >> are of a similar style. (and 4 [if there are 4] out of 100,000+ is still unique
> >> in my book)
>
> >Frankie Laine's "Jealousy (Jalousie)" immediately springs to mind.
>
> Definitely, and I enjoy this rich and, mellow yet exciting, record.

You're probably the first person who's ever called a Frankie Laine
record "mellow." :-)

[Michael Pendragon]

On May 21, 2:25 pm, xpene...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 20 May 2013 21:40:53 -0600, "Sharx35" <shar...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >"Dean F." <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> >news:60793587-bfc2-41ba...@googlegroups.com...
> >> On Monday, May 20, 2013 11:27:19 PM UTC-4, The Bloomfield Buddy
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> I guess he's one of these Republicans who thinks that everybody
> >>> shoulod start their own business.
>
> >> And who the hell would those businesses employ? The working
> >> stiffs that Doug regards as subhuman!
>
> >Some of you guys really seem to have an inferiority complex.
> >Deservedly so, perhaps?
>
> Dean is just unhappy with his lot in life.

Generally people who constantly belittle others over one particular
issue, tend to be insecure about the same thing in themselves.

[The Bloomfield Buddy]

On May 23, 12:47 pm, Frank <espon...@comcast.net> wrote:

Conway Twitty is not his real name.

[Frank]

On Thursday, May 23, 2013 3:52:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On May 21, 2:25 pm, xpene...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 20 May 2013 21:40:53 -0600, "Sharx35" <shar...@hotmail.com>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >"Dean F." <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:60793587-bfc2-41ba...@googlegroups.com...
>
> > >> On Monday, May 20, 2013 11:27:19 PM UTC-4, The Bloomfield Buddy
>
> > >> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >>> I guess he's one of these Republicans who thinks that everybody
>
> > >>> shoulod start their own business.
>
> >
>
> > >> And who the hell would those businesses employ? The working
>
> > >> stiffs that Doug regards as subhuman!
>

No idea if Doug considers such people as subhuman. Is that an assumption, or did he actually say that? Dean, are these the same working stiffs who Bruce, a year or two ago described those who commute to work as a bunch a mindless sheep? I don't recall you posting any "outrage" to that....although I could be wrong. Geez, Roger's job is "commuting".

[Michael Pendragon]

Bruce was making a broad generalization. I disagree with him, but I'm
not going to take issue with it.

Doug continually belittles specific members of this group (myself
included) for having jobs that he considers beneath him.

Bruce is espousing an elitist p.o.v. Doug is just being an asshole.

[Frank]

I'm not defending Doug and in fact was not truly aware he attacks people by their occupation, unless it was just an "anything goes" flame war....but I believe you.

[Jim Colegrove]

So, I guess you have neither heard of Conway, Texas or Twitty, Texas.
I guess you haven't hear of Vernon or Dalhart either.


Jim Colegrove
www.thecoolgroove.com

[Michael Pendragon]

Unfortunately, no. I've never really been off the East Coast.

[Michael Pendragon]

Yeah ... it just isn't connecting with me. Sarah Brightman has a
pretty enough voice, but ... it sounds like opera. :-)

[xpen...@gmail.com]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 13:49:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Bruce was making a broad generalization. I disagree with him, but I'm
>not going to take issue with it.
>
>Doug continually belittles specific members of this group (myself
>included) for having jobs that he considers beneath him.

Really? What is belittling about saying that you make a long commute
to work for a union that advocates against most if all issues that you
oppose? You don't consider writing poetry and short stories to be a
job do you? OTOH we have the decreed Denny the "smartest man" on the
internet with a huge vocabulary, thirty plus years experience in the
plumbing industry now working the counter. Nothing wrong with that
work but I expected more from a man of Denny's caliber.

>
>Bruce is espousing an elitist p.o.v. Doug is just being an asshole.

Scarlotti you are aware who are the ones that cast the first stone(s)
aren't you?

[xpen...@gmail.com]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 13:19:40 -0700 (PDT), Frank <espo...@comcast.net>

wrote:

>> > >>> I guess he's one of these Republicans who thinks that everybody
>>
>> > >>> shoulod start their own business.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > >> And who the hell would those businesses employ? The working
>>
>> > >> stiffs that Doug regards as subhuman!
>>
>
>No idea if Doug considers such people as subhuman. Is that an assumption, or did he actually say that? Dean, are these the same working stiffs who Bruce, a year or two ago described those who commute to work as a bunch a mindless sheep? I don't recall you posting any "outrage" to that....although I could be wrong. Geez, Roger's job is "commuting".
>

Of course not but simply Dean's interpretation based on "he's one of
those Republicans."

[xpen...@gmail.com]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 14:13:14 -0700 (PDT), Frank <espo...@comcast.net>
wrote:

>I'm not defending Doug and in fact was not truly aware he attacks people by their occupation, unless it was just an "anything goes" flame war....but I believe you.

Frank, you don't have all the facts. If I'm belittling Scarlotti it's
not for his work since I have no idea what he does. It's that he works
for a union that advocates against virtually everything he believes
in.

[Jim Colegrove]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 21:02:02 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 23, 7:48�ｿｽpm, Jim Colegrove <co...@thecoolgroove.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 10:06:01 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> >On May 23, 12:47�ｿｽpm, Frank <espon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >> Geoff>
>> >> �ｿｽAn awesome example of a tension record BTW is the unique "It's Only Make
>>
>> >> >> Believe" by Conway Twitty. �ｿｽYes, a simple, repetitive even, melody BUT...

>> >> >> (poster replacing live 50s TV sound with the record)
>>
>> >> Besides IOMB, how about Orbison's "Running Scared" and "It's Over" as tension builders?
>>

>> >I was thinking of those as well. �ｿｽAlso Frankie Laine's 1960 "Journey's

>> >End" which could easily stand as a prototype of both (I'm not saying
>> >it is, only that it sounds a *lot* like them).
>>
>> >> Of more recent vintage, the Bocelli/Brightman version of "Time to Say Goodbye" as beautiful and poignant a song as I've ever heard comes to mind. It's operatic, not pop or rock (obviously) although towards the end there's a drumbeat a bit similar to "Running Scared" as it builds and of course the high notes at the end are breathtaking.
>>

>> >I'm not familiar with that one. �ｿｽI did check out one or two Sarah

>> >Brightman tunes at youtube some time back, but only recall that they
>> >weren't to my taste.
>>
>> >> BTW, when I first heard the name Conway Twitty, I thought it could have a subliminal connection, like the sound itself, to the name Elvis Presley.....first and last names I never heard of. Then along came Ersel Hickey and Ferlin Husky ;-)
>>
>> >The odd thing is that Harold Jenkins actually chose to call himself

>> >"Conway Twitty." �ｿｽI guess in those pre-Python days, the British term

>> >"twit" had yet to reach the U.S.
>>
>> So, I guess you have neither heard of Conway, Texas or Twitty, Texas.
>> I guess you haven't hear of Vernon or Dalhart either.
>
>Unfortunately, no. I've never really been off the East Coast.

That kills my next question on Del Rio and Glen Rose. Both great
personalities from Texas.

Jim Colegrove
www.thecoolgroove.com

[Michael Pendragon]

On May 24, 8:22 am, xpene...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 23 May 2013 13:49:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
>

> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Bruce was making a broad generalization.  I disagree with him, but I'm
> >not going to take issue with it.
>
> >Doug continually belittles specific members of this group (myself
> >included) for having jobs that he considers beneath him.
>
> Really? What is belittling about saying that you make a long commute
> to work for a union that advocates against most if all issues that you
> oppose?

You asked (rhetorically) what one calls a person who does the above.
And the tone of your question (when taken in context) made it
abundantly clear that your preconceived answer was hardly a flattering
one.

> You don't consider writing poetry and short stories to be a
> job do you?

Your comment was directed at my job, not my avocation.

> OTOH we have the decreed Denny the "smartest man" on the
> internet with a huge vocabulary, thirty plus years experience in the
> plumbing industry now working the counter. Nothing wrong with that
> work but I expected more from a man of Denny's caliber.

Which clearly implies that you believe his job to be beneath him.

> >Bruce is espousing an elitist p.o.v.  Doug is just being an asshole.
>
> Scarlotti you are aware who are the ones that cast the first stone(s)
> aren't you?

Quite. And, as noted above, I have a feeling that deep down you feel
that you have not lived up to your own potential.

[Michael Pendragon]

On May 24, 8:51 am, xpene...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 23 May 2013 14:13:14 -0700 (PDT), Frank <espon...@comcast.net>

> wrote:
>
> >I'm not defending Doug and in fact was not truly aware he attacks people by their occupation, unless it was just an "anything goes" flame war....but I  believe  you.
>
> Frank, you don't have all the facts. If I'm belittling Scarlotti it's
> not for his work since I have no idea what he does. It's that he works
> for a union that advocates against virtually everything he believes
> in.

I believe in the empowerment of the working man.

But where is it written that everyone must agree with his employers'
politics?

Most people work to support themselves and, when applicable, their
family. That's all.

[Frank]

Well, if that's the case, Mike missed his calling. We have 435 people on Capitol Hill who get re-elected again and again and have very few core beliefs.
If the current Obama "scandals".... and I put the quotation marks around the word because I don't think Benghazi is a scandal, just a political situation they screwed up. The IRS and snooping on journalists probably qualify as
scandals.... were during the Bush administration, the Dems would be bleating and the Reps go quiet. It's party over principle. A POX ON BOTH THEIR HOUSES!!

[xpen...@gmail.com]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:43:08 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 24, 8:22 am, xpene...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 May 2013 13:49:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
>>
>> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Bruce was making a broad generalization.  I disagree with him, but I'm
>> >not going to take issue with it.
>>
>> >Doug continually belittles specific members of this group (myself
>> >included) for having jobs that he considers beneath him.
>>
>> Really? What is belittling about saying that you make a long commute
>> to work for a union that advocates against most if all issues that you
>> oppose?
>
>You asked (rhetorically) what one calls a person who does the above.
>And the tone of your question (when taken in context) made it
>abundantly clear that your preconceived answer was hardly a flattering
>one.

So you admit being hypocrite isn't flattering?

>
>> You don't consider writing poetry and short stories to be a
>> job do you?
>
>Your comment was directed at my job, not my avocation.
>
>> OTOH we have the decreed Denny the "smartest man" on the
>> internet with a huge vocabulary, thirty plus years experience in the
>> plumbing industry now working the counter. Nothing wrong with that
>> work but I expected more from a man of Denny's caliber.
>
>Which clearly implies that you believe his job to be beneath him.

Well I do think that one with a college degree with 30+ years in a
single industry should have risen a bit higher. Wouldn't you agree?

>
>> >Bruce is espousing an elitist p.o.v.  Doug is just being an asshole.
>>
>> Scarlotti you are aware who are the ones that cast the first stone(s)
>> aren't you?
>
>Quite. And, as noted above, I have a feeling that deep down you feel
>that you have not lived up to your own potential.

Maybe. Maybe not. OTOH while not Republican rich I've done well
enough.

[xpen...@gmail.com]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:50:14 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I believe in the empowerment of the working man.

and what is this suppose to mean?

>
>But where is it written that everyone must agree with his employers'
>politics?

You're free to work or not work for who ever you like. You act like
your employer is just the run of the mill boss. The fact is that your
employer spends million of dollars union dues to elect candidates.
that many union workers don't support.

During the years of Stern's leadership, the SEIU funneled vast amounts
of financing to the Democratic Party and its candidates, far
outnumbering the contributions of other unions during the last two
election cycles. SEIU contributed $65 million to the 2004 presidential
campaign of John Kerry. The union spent another $85 million on
Democratic candidates in 2008; $60 million going toward the election
of President Barack Obama. Maybe you excuse this since SEIU thugs
while hurling racial epithets beat up a black man in a wheelchair
while he was selling American flags.

[Michael Pendragon]

On May 24, 1:50 pm, xpene...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:43:08 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
>

> >You asked (rhetorically) what one calls a person who does the above.
> >And the tone of your question (when taken in context) made it
> >abundantly clear that your preconceived answer was hardly a flattering
> >one.
>
> So you admit being hypocrite isn't flattering?

How am I being a hypocrite?

I do the job I get to do.

I don't vote for anyone or anything based on what my employers
support.

And I'm certainly not pretending to be a Democrat while at work --
I've got a bronze bust of Ronald Reagan sitting in a position of honor
on the center of my desk.

> >> You don't consider writing poetry and short stories to be a
> >> job do you?
>
> >Your comment was directed at my job, not my avocation.
>
> >> OTOH we have the decreed Denny the "smartest man" on the
> >> internet with a huge vocabulary, thirty plus years experience in the
> >> plumbing industry now working the counter. Nothing wrong with that
> >> work but I expected more from a man of Denny's caliber.
>
> >Which clearly implies that you believe his job to be beneath him.
>
> Well I do think that one with a college degree with 30+ years in a
> single industry should have risen a bit higher. Wouldn't you agree?

I don't know how high his position is considered at his job, and
neither do you.

I've got a college degree (more or less), and I've been with my job
almost 20 years, but I'm far from being in a high level position. Nor
do I desire to be in one.

> >> >Bruce is espousing an elitist p.o.v.  Doug is just being an asshole.
>
> >> Scarlotti you are aware who are the ones that cast the first stone(s)
> >> aren't you?
>
> >Quite.  And, as noted above, I have a feeling that deep down you feel
> >that you have not lived up to your own potential.
>
> Maybe. Maybe not. OTOH while not Republican rich I've done well
> enough.

And while not Democrat rich (or Democrat poor), I think I've done well
enough, too. And if Dennis is cool with his job, then you should be
cool with where all three of us are in our respective "careers."

[xpen...@gmail.com]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 11:40:21 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 21, 2:17 pm, xpene...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 May 2013 20:25:44 -0700 (PDT), "Dean F."
>>
>> <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Monday, May 20, 2013 11:20:39 PM UTC-4, The Bloomfield Buddy wrote:
>>
>> >> > I deeply resent Doug's holier-than-thou attitude toward the working class.
>> >> > What, exactly, does he do for a living that he thinks is so goddamned
>> >> > superior to how the rest of us earn our paychecks? Inquiring minds want to
>> >> > know, Mr. P!
>>
>> >> He does some kind of graphic arts.
>>
>> >And how does that make him better than the rest of us?
>
>If his "History of Rock and Roll" website is any indication of his
>talents in this field, he can't be very successful at it.

It doesn't pay my bills, not that it was ever intended too, but it
certainly generates more income than your short stories and poems.

[xpen...@gmail.com]

On Tue, 21 May 2013 11:43:04 -0700 (PDT), The Bloomfield Buddy
<Sav...@aol.com> wrote:

>On May 21, 2:40 pm, Michael Pendragon

><michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On May 21, 2:17 pm, xpene...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, 20 May 2013 20:25:44 -0700 (PDT), "Dean F."
>>
>> > <soulexpr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >On Monday, May 20, 2013 11:20:39 PM UTC-4, The Bloomfield Buddy wrote:
>>
>> > >> > I deeply resent Doug's holier-than-thou attitude toward the working class.
>> > >> > What, exactly, does he do for a living that he thinks is so goddamned
>> > >> > superior to how the rest of us earn our paychecks? Inquiring minds want to
>> > >> > know, Mr. P!
>>
>> > >> He does some kind of graphic arts.
>>
>> > >And how does that make him better than the rest of us?
>>
>> If his "History of Rock and Roll" website is any indication of his
>> talents in this field, he can't be very successful at it.
>

>He also is a male model:
>
>http://www.dbusiness.com/DBusiness/May-June-2012/1-800-LAW-FIRM-Office-Opening/index.php?mode=popup&cp=3&view=slideshow&play=0

If your buddy Denny put as much effort into his job maybe after 30+
years he'd have become head counter boy.

[The Bloomfield Buddy]

On May 24, 2:54 pm, Michael Pendragon

<michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've got a college degree (more or less),

Clarification please?

> I'm far from being in a high level position.  Nor
> do I desire to be in one.

Sounds like sweet lemon to me.

[Michael Pendragon]

On May 24, 2:26 pm, xpene...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 24 May 2013 07:50:14 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
>

> <michaelmaleficapendra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I believe in the empowerment of the working man.
>
> and what is this suppose to mean?

Just what it says.

I believe in and strongly support workers' unions.

> >But where is it written that everyone must agree with his employers'
> >politics?
>
> You're free to work or not work for who ever you like.  You act like
> your employer is just the run of the mill boss. The fact is that your
> employer spends million of dollars union dues to elect candidates.
> that many union workers don't support.

The union itself (not the individual fund I work for) is a political
entity. They support candidates in return for the candidates' support
of pro-union legislation.

The fund that I work for provides healthcare workers with financial
assistance for higher education.

> During the years of Stern's leadership, the SEIU funneled vast amounts
> of financing to the Democratic Party and its candidates, far
> outnumbering the contributions of other unions during the last two
> election cycles. SEIU contributed $65 million to the 2004 presidential
> campaign of John Kerry. The union spent another $85 million on
> Democratic candidates in 2008; $60 million going toward the election
> of President Barack Obama.

And their candidates pass pro-union laws and provide the union with
millions in grants -- several of which help finance the fund that I
work for.

> Maybe you excuse this since SEIU thugs
> while hurling racial epithets beat up a black man in a wheelchair
> while he was selling American flags.

The union I work for is a member of SEIU, not SEIU itself. I've never
even met any SEIU representatives. My union, which bills itself as
"Martin Luther King's Favorite Union," has a largely African American
constituency. The idea of them having anything to do with such an
incident is laughable.

[RWC]

On Thu, 23 May 2013 11:44:42 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:


>> >To take but one example from yesterday's HLL
>> >playlist, I think that Gayla Peevey's vocal on "Too Young (To Have a
>> >Broken Heart)" is far more emotionally intense than Del Shannon's
>> >"Runaway."
>> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCFxGzYhsng
>>

>... I don't know if you're familiar with this record, but the

>lyric alone should provide an understanding of the song's angst-ridden

>theme ...

The link above is to Gayla's record - I should have labelled it better.

There is little sonic tension in the vocal of this youngster - in our context
this is just another record in the 50s adult pop style.

>There's a slightly whiny edge to Del Shannon's delivery .... that's
>all I'm really picking up from a vocal standpoint.

You mean like Johnnie Ray :-)

In the recording studio this likely didn't happen, but when listening to records
like "Runaway" one can imagine the artist singing into the microphone in a
moving hyped up emotional state - a state that no 'adult pop' singer can be
imagined to have (leaving aside, on occasion, the legendary Johnnie Ray, Frankie
Laine and perhaps one or two others).

Any artiste, Patti Page or competent amateur Janet Smith, can sing lyrics put in
front of them. The style of singing can transcend lyrics when it comes to
invoking important base emotions - but that doesn't mean, in general, the
artiste can just sing nonsense throughout the record, and lyrics of course can
enhance the emotive evocation.

L&S would not have been so successful if their material was sung only by mundane
performers - the Coasters had an appealing 'sound' to their records which more
than complimented the humorous lyrics (meaning you might only partially pick up
on the lyrics but still enjoy the record because of several other qualities in
the vocals).

>You're probably the first person who's ever called a Frankie Laine
>record "mellow." :-)

Compared to raucous rock 'n roll?


Geoff

[RWC]

On Sat, 25 May 2013 12:03:12 +1000, RWC wrote:

>The style of singing can transcend lyrics when it comes to

>invoking important base emotions.

I refer you to the popularity of Édith Piaf, amongst non French speaking
peoples.

(BTW this is not the same as hearing nonsense lyrics throughout since one's mind
assumes she's not)

[xpen...@gmail.com]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 11:54:08 -0700 (PDT), Michael Pendragon
<michaelmalef...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I don't know how high his position is considered at his job, and
>neither do you.

Where do you think working the counter falls in company?

>
>I've got a college degree (more or less), and I've been with my job
>almost 20 years, but I'm far from being in a high level position. Nor
>do I desire to be in one.

You either got a degree or you don't. You wouldn't like to be better
able to support your family?

>
>> >> >Bruce is espousing an elitist p.o.v.  Doug is just being an asshole.
>>
>> >> Scarlotti you are aware who are the ones that cast the first stone(s)
>> >> aren't you?
>>
>> >Quite.  And, as noted above, I have a feeling that deep down you feel
>> >that you have not lived up to your own potential.
>>
>> Maybe. Maybe not. OTOH while not Republican rich I've done well
>> enough.
>
>And while not Democrat rich (or Democrat poor), I think I've done well
>enough, too. And if Dennis is cool with his job, then you should be
>cool with where all three of us are in our respective "careers."

I guess its just that I expect more from men of your caliber.