Let's Talk Rockabilly
Bill Bugge
of Rockabilly.
I find too many Rockabilly songs are marked by shrieking, irritating vocals.
In "The Rolling Stone Illustrated History Of Rock & Roll," Peter Guralnick
states: "It was a music of almost classical purity and definition. Perhaps
that is why, except for the work of its major practitioners, it holds up so
poorly today." I agree with his evaluation.
But I'm sure there are many Rockabilly fans in the group. Here's the place
to discuss anything related to Rockabilly, be it its merits, origins,
favorite singers, favorite songs, concerts, anything.
Let's talk Rockabilly.
--
Bill Bugge
------------------------------------
Two "b"s or not to be (delivered)
Bob Roman
we've done that to death--but I do want to get into a
conversation of definition *opinions*. What exactly
characterizes rockabilly? Carl Perkins definitely is
rockabilly; Fats Domino definitely is not. Between those
extremes, where is the cut-off, and why?
Elvis at Sun is considered rockabilly by most (the knock against
him by purists is he's too slick) and Jerry Lee at Sun is
considered rockabilly only by a few (the knock against him is
he's too boogie-woogie). Charlie Rich at Sun is neither slick
nor boogie-woogie--why is he not rockabilly?
Rockabilly is a mix of C&W and R&B. Why is Chuck Berry
(particularly on Maybelline) not rockabilly? Why is Bill Haley
not rockabilly?
Is rockabilly BOTH R&R and C&W? Or neither but BETWEEN? If
between (I've asked this before) why is "Honky Tonk Man" not
rockabilly? (I'm asking WHETHER it is--I'm asking WHY it's not.)
If Hank Williams' "Move It On Over" had been released in 1956,
wouldn't it be considered prototypical rockabilly?
Bob Roman
PS If Norm (Mr. Invisible to me) answers any of my questions,
can someone forward them to me.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Dean F.
>Guralnick states: "It was a music of almost classical purity and
>definition. Perhaps that is why, except for the work of its
>major practitioners, it holds up so poorly today." I agree with
>his evaluation.
Well, I don't. Rockabilly is fucking awesome! Never have I
encountered another genre whose best songs quite literally made
my sex organs tingle, to a point at which I had to repress the
overpowering urge to plug into the nearest female receptacle!
And consider this: there are plenty of latter-day rockabilly and
blues bands consisting entirely of people in their 20s and 30s.
But when was the last time you heard of a latter-day doo-wop
group composed of people who weren't even born in the 1950s?
Probably never!
Whyis this so? Because rockabilly and the blues have withstood
the test of time a hell of a lot better than the vast majority of
that overrated, overpriced doo-wop stuff that most of this
newsgroup reveres!
Rockabilly and the blues will be performed and resopected long
after the last surviving doo-wop fan has kicked the bucket.
And though it may be hard for anyone reading this to believe, I
wrote this posting from the point of view of a group-harmony
fan--albeit one who tries to keep the music in perspective.
Jim Colegrove
Rockabilly, however you define it is certainly one of my favorites.
Jim Colegrove
co...@thecoolgroove.com
Bob Roman
>And consider this: there are plenty of latter-day rockabilly and
>blues bands consisting entirely of people in their 20s and 30s.
>But when was the last time you heard of a latter-day doo-wop
>group composed of people who weren't even born in the 1950s?
>Probably never!
>
>Whyis this so? Because rockabilly and the blues have withstood
>the test of time a hell of a lot better than the vast majority
>of that overrated, overpriced doo-wop stuff that most of this
>newsgroup reveres!
Yeah, but Dean, try this little experiment. Name to yourself as
many truly great vocal harmony groups from the '50s as you can.
Now name to yourself as many truly great rockabilly artists from
the '50s as you can. Is your rockabilly list anywhere near as
long?
Bob Roman
Jim Colegrove
<rromanN...@boltstaff.com.invalid> wrote:
>Dean F. <soulexpre...@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote:
>>And consider this: there are plenty of latter-day rockabilly and
>>blues bands consisting entirely of people in their 20s and 30s.
>>But when was the last time you heard of a latter-day doo-wop
>>group composed of people who weren't even born in the 1950s?
>>Probably never!
>>
>>Whyis this so? Because rockabilly and the blues have withstood
>>the test of time a hell of a lot better than the vast majority
>>of that overrated, overpriced doo-wop stuff that most of this
>>newsgroup reveres!
>
>Yeah, but Dean, try this little experiment. Name to yourself as
>many truly great vocal harmony groups from the '50s as you can.
>Now name to yourself as many truly great rockabilly artists from
>the '50s as you can. Is your rockabilly list anywhere near as
>long?
>
>Bob Roman
Where the problem lies here is "truly great" and "rockabilly." The
definition of rockabilly has been debated long and hard by some in
this group and the term "truly great" could be as well.
Jim Colegrove
co...@thecoolgroove.com
Mark Dintenfass
<soulexpre...@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote:
> Rockabilly and the blues will be performed and resopected long
> after the last surviving doo-wop fan has kicked the bucket.
Hm. Why marry RAB and blues unless you think some of the prestige and
popularity of blues might rub off? It's like some little kid saying me
and my big brother will take you on, and the big brother turns out to
be an 800 pound gorilla.
--md
Mark Dintenfass
Bill Bugge <bbb...@att.net> wrote:
> I find too many Rockabilly songs are marked by shrieking, irritating vocals.
With the exception of Carl Perkins, I find most of the RAB that the
enthusiasts like unlistenable. I tried real hard for a while to acquire
a taste for it, taking cues about what makes good RAB from Roger,
Norm, and the other RAB fans hereabouts, but I finally gave up. No
doubt there is some deficiency in my soul, but RAB as a form is simply
not for me.
--md
Bob Roman
>Bob Roman <rromanN...@boltstaff.com.invalid> wrote:
>>Yeah, but Dean, try this little experiment. Name to yourself
>>as many truly great vocal harmony groups from the '50s as you
>>can. Now name to yourself as many truly great rockabilly
>>artists from the '50s as you can. Is your rockabilly list
>>anywhere near as long?
>
>The definition of rockabilly has been debated long and hard by
>some in this group and the term "truly great" could be as well.
Use any definition, any standard, you like, but be consistent
across the two genres.
Bob Roman
>There are *plenty* of acappella groups composed of young
>folks. True, they don't *only* sing "doowopp," but some of
>them sing it *really well*.
It's true. No one asking for change on the subway is singing
rockabilly.
Anthony Borgosano
"Bob Roman" <rromanN...@boltstaff.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:28accbe6...@usw-ex0101-005.remarq.com...
> "DianeE" <dianee...@att.net> wrote:
> >There are *plenty* of acappella groups composed of young
> >folks. True, they don't *only* sing "doowopp," but some of
> >them sing it *really well*.
>
> It's true. No one asking for change on the subway is singing
> rockabilly.
> If you can sing rockabilly, you wouldn't have to sing it in the subway!
>
> Tony Borgosano
> http://members.tripod.com/~Tony50/index.html
Mark Dintenfass
DianeE <dianee...@att.net> wrote:
> Mark Dintenfass <ml...@execpc.com> wrote in message
> news:260520001950536896%ml...@execpc.com...
> --------------
> Johnny Burnette!
Okay, Diane, Johnny Burnette. I'll give you that one, and I own an
excellent CD compilation of the good stuff he did. But I have to
confess, I almost never choose to listen to it.
--md
Mark Dintenfass
DianeE <dianee...@att.net> wrote:
> > Dean F. <soulexpre...@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote:
> > >And consider this: there are plenty of latter-day rockabilly and
> > >blues bands consisting entirely of people in their 20s and 30s.
> > >But when was the last time you heard of a latter-day doo-wop
> > >group composed of people who weren't even born in the 1950s?
> > >Probably never!
> -----------------
> There are *plenty* of acappella groups composed of young folks. True, they
> don't *only* sing "doowopp," but some of them sing it *really well*.
I'm relatively ignorant about contemporary music, but I believe there
have been in recent years a number of successful black vocal harmony
groups (Boys II Men, for example) with obvious ties to doowop.
--md
Jeanie McWeezl
(snip)>
>There's a lot of great rockabilly records by real obscure artists who only made
>one or two great songs.
(snip)
>Bruce Grossberg
>
OK, Bruce...you seem to know RAB well. Have you ever heard of an
artist by the name of Johnny Duncan? I recently had the good luck of
having someone send me a song called "Last Train to San Fernando" and
after a few listens to this track, I'm hooked! Do you know anything
about this artist or what year this song might have come out or label
it was on??
"So many songs, so little time" -Jeanie McWeezl :)
Dean F.
>Yeah, but Dean, try this little experiment. Name to yourself as
>many truly great vocal harmony groups from the
>'50s as you can. Now name to yourself as many truly great
>rockabilly artists from the '50s as you can. Is your
>rockabilly list anywhere near as long?
But that's not my point, Bob. My point is that the vast majority
of doo-wop fans are people who have dug the stuff since it was
new, or at least since the earliest stages of its revival.
Whereas with other "oldies" genres--like rockabilly, surf, and
blues--you have people in our age bracket and younger who are
wild about the stuff, some enough to form their own bands and
create their own compositions in those styles.
I mean, let's face facts. Gen-X'ers like you and I, who dig the
1950s doo-wop sound beyond what the oldies stations play, are few
and far between. That's one of the reasons I'm glad for the
Internet, because I can meet like-minded music fans in my age
bracket (and in other age brackets, of course).
Besides, a whole lot of my favorite rockabilly records are by
artists who did not wax a whole string of great singles, but only
one, two, or possibly three ass-kickers before they disappeared
for good. So asking me to name a buttload of great RAB artists
really does little good in terms of proving (or disproving) the
music's viability.
Dean F.
>There are *plenty* of acappella groups composed of young folks.
>True, they don't *only* sing "doowopp," but
>some of them sing it *really well*.
That may be true in New York, but I'll bet you dollars to
doughnuts you aren't going to find a whole lot of doo-wop groups
with younger members outside the Northeast. Whereas you've got
Gen-X bands playing rockabilly, surf, and the blues all over the
bloody world!
Dean F.
>Doo-Wop is the least respected.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying! And that's unfortunate,
because, like I said before, the best doo-wop is truly sublime
music. However, some people in this newsgroup seem to confuse our
love of that music with the tastes of the outside world in
general, which couldn't give a damn about the R&B vocal
groups--or, for that matter, about rockabilly, surf, or any other
pre-Beatles musical genre. I was simply trying to put things in
perspective.
>But I would ask, aren't the Doo-Wop shows, especially "Doo-Wop
>50" the biggest fundraisers for the PBS TV stations? When's the
>last time they ran a Rockabilly or a Blues fundraiser?
PBS has aired plenty of blues concerts over the years. As for why
they ran a doo-wop concert during a fundraiser, it's because
people in their 50s and 60s tend to be settled into their lives
and have the most money to pledge. And I guarantee you, the next
time PBS runs anything doo-wop related, it'll be during their
next fund drive!
>Doesn't that indicate Dean's opinion is in the minority?
On this newsgroup, yes. But go out into the real world and ask
any random 34-year-old about doo-wop, and he won't even know what
the hell you're talking about! Of course, he also wouldn't know
what you were talking about if you mentioned rockabilly or surf
music. And if you asked that same 34-year-old about the blues,
he'd immediately think of John Belushi and Dan Aykroyd!
Dean F.
>rockabilly.
>Bob Roman
And if you walk into a Memphis barroom on a Saturday night, you
aren't going to hear an a capella (how the fuck do you spell
that, anyway?) doo-wop group! What's your point, Bob? That
doo-wop is, and always has been, a regional phenomenon? If
so, then you're 100% right!
Try to remember, folks: there's a great, big world outside of New
York City! :-)
Bill Bugge
"Mark Dintenfass" <ml...@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:260520001953547755%ml...@execpc.com...
> In article <07ab9898...@usw-ex0103-023.remarq.com>, Dean F.
> <soulexpre...@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Rockabilly and the blues will be performed and respected long
> > after the last surviving doo-wop fan has kicked the bucket.
>
> Hm. Why marry RAB and blues
I think Dean was just saying, of the three threads I started, Doo-Wop is the
least respected.
But I would ask, aren't the Doo-Wop shows, especially "Doo-Wop 50" the
biggest fundraisers for the PBS TV stations? When's the last time they ran a
Rockabilly or a Blues fundraiser?
Doesn't that indicate Dean's opinion is in the minority?
--
Bill Bugge
"DianeE" <dianee...@att.net> wrote in message
news:Y4GX4.1057$Zm5....@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> There are *plenty* of acappella groups composed of young folks. True,
they
> don't *only* sing "doowopp," but some of them sing it *really well*.
>
There are plenty that do sing only Doo-Wop, at least I think there are.
Ronnie I's groups for example. Dan Madonna, who occasionally posts here but
more frequently to the 60's group, is one. His group, Relatives Bt
Appointment, sings (almost?) exclusively Doo-Wop.
Bill Bugge
"Bob Roman" <rromanN...@boltstaff.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:28accbe6...@usw-ex0101-005.remarq.com...
> "DianeE" <dianee...@att.net> wrote:
> >There are *plenty* of acappella groups composed of young
> >folks.
>
> It's true. No one asking for change on the subway is singing
> rockabilly.
Rockabilly singers get their change by sticking up 7-11s.
SavoyBG
younger people doing this kind of music is that they can relate to it much
better than they can relate to Doo-Wop. Rockabilly is much closer to the sound
of rock & roll from the 60's and 70's than Doo-Wop is.
Some of the rockabilly artists that I think are great are...
Carl Perkins
Mac Curtis
Charlie Feathers
Roy Hall
Billy Wallace
Don Woody
Johnny Burnette Trio
Ray Campi
Janis Martin
(Early) Wanda Jackson
Roy Moss
There's a lot of great rockabilly records by real obscure artists who only made
one or two great songs.
The liner notes on Chuck Berry's first LP describe him as a rockabilly singer.
Bruce Grossberg
V
> On 27 May 2000 03:00:24 GMT, sav...@aol.com (SavoyBG) wrote:
>
> (snip)>
> >There's a lot of great rockabilly records by real obscure artists who only made
> >one or two great songs.
> (snip)
> >Bruce Grossberg
> >
> OK, Bruce...you seem to know RAB well. Have you ever heard of an
> artist by the name of Johnny Duncan? I recently had the good luck of
> having someone send me a song called "Last Train to San Fernando" and
> after a few listens to this track, I'm hooked! Do you know anything
> about this artist or what year this song might have come out or label
> it was on??
>
> "So many songs, so little time" -Jeanie McWeezl :)
It was his only release on Capitol from 1957.
Steve Mc
>But I'm sure there are many Rockabilly fans in the group. Here's the place
>to discuss anything related to Rockabilly, be it its merits, origins,
>favorite singers, favorite songs, concerts, anything.
>
>Let's talk Rockabilly.
In addition to I suppose the better known Elvis Sun +, Carl Perkins & The
Johnny Burnett Trio, my very favorite RAB's are:
School of Rock N Roll - Gene Summers
Rock Ola Ruby - Sonee West
That Long Black Train - Franklin Stewart
and the second tier:
Rock Crazy Baby - Art Adams
Raw Deal - Junior Thompson
I had never heard any of these until the experts around here started sharing.
Thanks again all. Have MP3s, will send.
Steve Mc
Please remove ma to respond.
mr...@elroynet.com
biography. Did any of you read it. Its great.
Mike Rice
On Fri, 26 May 2000 20:33:55 GMT, "Bill Bugge" <bbb...@att.net> wrote:
>Not one of my favorite genres, though I did like many of the early examples
>of Rockabilly.
>
>I find too many Rockabilly songs are marked by shrieking, irritating vocals.
>
>In "The Rolling Stone Illustrated History Of Rock & Roll," Peter Guralnick
>states: "It was a music of almost classical purity and definition. Perhaps
>that is why, except for the work of its major practitioners, it holds up so
>poorly today." I agree with his evaluation.
>
>But I'm sure there are many Rockabilly fans in the group. Here's the place
>to discuss anything related to Rockabilly, be it its merits, origins,
>favorite singers, favorite songs, concerts, anything.
>
>Let's talk Rockabilly.
>
mr...@elroynet.com
hit status. but there is quite a lot of doo wop.
Mike Rice
On Sat, 27 May 2000 01:05:13 GMT, "Bill Bugge" <bbb...@att.net> wrote:
>
>
>"Mark Dintenfass" <ml...@execpc.com> wrote in message
>news:260520001953547755%ml...@execpc.com...
>> In article <07ab9898...@usw-ex0103-023.remarq.com>, Dean F.
>> <soulexpre...@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > Rockabilly and the blues will be performed and respected long
>> > after the last surviving doo-wop fan has kicked the bucket.
>>
>> Hm. Why marry RAB and blues
>
>I think Dean was just saying, of the three threads I started, Doo-Wop is the
>least respected.
>
>But I would ask, aren't the Doo-Wop shows, especially "Doo-Wop 50" the
>biggest fundraisers for the PBS TV stations? When's the last time they ran a
>Rockabilly or a Blues fundraiser?
>
>Doesn't that indicate Dean's opinion is in the minority?
>
>
>
mr...@elroynet.com
something even more obscure, like British
skittle!
Mike Rice
On Sat, 27 May 2000 06:13:34 GMT, Norm Katuna <no...@operamail.com>
wrote:
>How come I can't find him listed in any of my RAB price guides? I can't even
>find him listed in Osborne's Rockin Records on Capitol.
>
>I don't think he is RAB, but could be wrong since I've never heard anything by
>him, and why do I keep thinking he's British?
>
>Norm K
>
Roger Ford
<muzik...@uswest.net> wrote:
>On 27 May 2000 03:00:24 GMT, sav...@aol.com (SavoyBG) wrote:
>
>(snip)>
>>There's a lot of great rockabilly records by real obscure artists who only made
>>one or two great songs.
>(snip)
>>Bruce Grossberg
>>
>OK, Bruce...you seem to know RAB well. Have you ever heard of an
>artist by the name of Johnny Duncan? I recently had the good luck of
>having someone send me a song called "Last Train to San Fernando" and
>after a few listens to this track, I'm hooked! Do you know anything
>about this artist or what year this song might have come out or label
>it was on??
>
Jeannie,I just reposted a lengthy piece about Johnny Duncan & The
Bluegrass Boys that I did a while back which I hope is of some
interest.
.
ROGER FORD
----------
NOTE! SPAM FREE ZONE! In an attempt to stop robot spamming I've added an extra "d" in my e-mail
address (mari...@ddircon.co.uk).Please remove same to respond,thanks!
Roger Ford
wrote:
>On Sat, 27 May 2000 00:23:41 -0400, in rec.music.rock-pop-r+b.1950s, V
><lu...@erols.com>, wrote:
>
>>Jeanie McWeezl wrote:
>>
>>> On 27 May 2000 03:00:24 GMT, sav...@aol.com (SavoyBG) wrote:
>>>
>>> (snip)>
>>> >There's a lot of great rockabilly records by real obscure artists who only made
>>> >one or two great songs.
>>> (snip)
>>> >Bruce Grossberg
>>> >
>>> OK, Bruce...you seem to know RAB well. Have you ever heard of an
>>> artist by the name of Johnny Duncan? I recently had the good luck of
>>> having someone send me a song called "Last Train to San Fernando" and
>>> after a few listens to this track, I'm hooked! Do you know anything
>>> about this artist or what year this song might have come out or label
>>> it was on??
>>>
>>> "So many songs, so little time" -Jeanie McWeezl :)
>>
>>It was his only release on Capitol from 1957.
>
>How come I can't find him listed in any of my RAB price guides? I can't even
>find him listed in Osborne's Rockin Records on Capitol.
>
>I don't think he is RAB, but could be wrong since I've never heard anything by
>him, and why do I keep thinking he's British?
>
Norm,see the piece about Johnny Duncan I just reposted for Jeannie McW
Roger Ford
>I'm getting tired of this. Lets talk about
>something even more obscure, like British
>skittle!
>
It's "SKIFFLE" Mike and what'd ya wanna know?????
Roger Ford
>In addition to I suppose the better known Elvis Sun +, Carl Perkins & The
>Johnny Burnett Trio, my very favorite RAB's are:
>
<other great examples snipped>
>That Long Black Train - Franklin Stewart
Anyone that wants to hear what a GREAT rockabilly track sounds like
can do no better than hear this one.
I've listened to and collected RAB records for more years than I care
to remember but I'd not heard this one until Spade posted it recently
(danke,Spade!!!)
IMO it's up there with the VERY best!!!
Dean F.
>biography. Did any of you read it. Its great.
I read both volumes, and I agree with your assessment. An
incredible piece of work from Mr. Guralnick! Although I must
admit, I found Volume 2 hard to read because the author went into
such excruciating detail in chronicling Presley's artistic and
personal decline.
Elvis' final 20 years were a tragedy worthy of Shakespeare.
pen...@earthlink.net
<rromanN...@boltstaff.com.invalid> wrote:
>Dean F. <soulexpre...@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote:
>>And consider this: there are plenty of latter-day rockabilly and
>>blues bands consisting entirely of people in their 20s and 30s.
>>But when was the last time you heard of a latter-day doo-wop
>>group composed of people who weren't even born in the 1950s?
>>Probably never!
>>
>>Whyis this so? Because rockabilly and the blues have withstood
>>the test of time a hell of a lot better than the vast majority
>>of that overrated, overpriced doo-wop stuff that most of this
>>newsgroup reveres!
>
>Yeah, but Dean, try this little experiment. Name to yourself as
>many truly great vocal harmony groups from the '50s as you can.
>Now name to yourself as many truly great rockabilly artists from
>the '50s as you can. Is your rockabilly list anywhere near as
>long?
>
>Bob Roman
That's not a fair comparision. There were more Doo Wop groups than
there were rockabillys groups. The reason being that a Doo Wop group
only needed a mixture of voices while a rockabilly group needed
instrumentation. Anyone could from a doo wop group as there was no
costs involved.
dkp
>
>* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
>The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
http://www.history-of-rock.com
to e-mail add d in front of peneny
Jim Colegrove
>I like lots of rockabilly very much. I think the reason that there's so many
>younger people doing this kind of music is that they can relate to it much
>better than they can relate to Doo-Wop. Rockabilly is much closer to the sound
>of rock & roll from the 60's and 70's than Doo-Wop is.
>
>Some of the rockabilly artists that I think are great are...
>
>Carl Perkins
>Mac Curtis
>Charlie Feathers
>Roy Hall
>Billy Wallace
>Don Woody
>Johnny Burnette Trio
>Ray Campi
>Janis Martin
>(Early) Wanda Jackson
>Roy Moss
>
>There's a lot of great rockabilly records by real obscure artists who only made
>one or two great songs.
>
>The liner notes on Chuck Berry's first LP describe him as a rockabilly singer.
>
>
>
>Bruce Grossberg
>
Bruce, I agree with you and there are so many more whom I think are
"truly great" that fall into the obscure catagory. I have been
working on a list now around 130 artists.
Jim Colegrove
co...@thecoolgroove.com
pen...@earthlink.net
<rromanN...@boltstaff.com.invalid> wrote:
>"DianeE" <dianee...@att.net> wrote:
>>There are *plenty* of acappella groups composed of young
>>folks. True, they don't *only* sing "doowopp," but some of
>>them sing it *really well*.
>
>It's true. No one asking for change on the subway is singing
>rockabilly.
>
>Bob Roman
You don't find them singing rockabilly because rockabilly is more than
the singing. Here's a list of elements of rockabilly from the book "Go
Cat Go" - Rockabilly and It's Makers:
Obviously Presley influence
Performer s with a country background
Identifiable country and rhythm and blues inflections
Blues structure
Use of echo effect
Strong Rhythm and beat
Emotion and feeling
Wild and extreme vocal style
An energetic, blues influenced guitar solo
Upright bass, especially if played in a slapped manner
Moderate to fast tempo
A date of 1954, 1955 or 1956
Subways = urban cities where it was never sung in it's hey day. BTW
there were a few great White Doo Wop groups, but were there any great
Black Rockabillys or for that matter good ones?
Mark Dintenfass
<co...@thecoolgroove.com> wrote:
> Bruce, I agree with you and there are so many more whom I think are
> "truly great" that fall into the obscure catagory. I have been
> working on a list now around 130 artists.
Amazing. A hundred and thirty artists in RAB alone who are "truly
great." And yet when we did forty-best surveys of ALL 50s and cusp
music a while back, everyone pretty much agreed that the bottoms of the
list were occupied by the "very good" or even "fairly good" rather than
the "truly great." I must confess, you RAB fans certainly are devoted.
--md
Jeanie McWeezl
wrote:
>Jeanie:
>
>You may like the Johnny Duncan record, but please, please don't get this sound
>confused with RAB. It isn't even close to being RAB.
>
>Norm K
I'm sorry Norm :-]
Y'know I plead ignorance on this one, but I really do like this tune
very much. I grew up in the 60s and 70s, so my 50s knowledge is
extremely weak--I don't know the difference between "doo wop" vs.
"r&b-vocals" either ...and everything that's from the 50's that sounds
even slightly country I've naturally assumed is "rockabilly". I
remember some songs from the 50's because I have older siblings who
played 45s and I learned about others from the 50's revival around the
time the film "American Graffiti" came out. So a lot of this stuff,
especially the more obscure items, are completely *new* to me, I'm
trying to learn as I go. Thanks for the clarification.
darryl rhoades
Dintenfass <ml...@execpc.com> wrote:
>In article <TcBX4.680$Zm5.37304@bgtnsc06-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>Bill Bugge <bbb...@att.net> wrote:
>
>> I find too many Rockabilly songs are marked by shrieking,
irritating vocals.
>
the
>enthusiasts like unlistenable. I tried real hard for a while to
acquire
>a taste for it, taking cues about what makes good RAB from
Roger,
>Norm, and the other RAB fans hereabouts, but I finally gave up.
No
>doubt there is some deficiency in my soul, but RAB as a form is
simply
>not for me.
>
>--md
I'm not sure what your exposure to rockabilly has been but when
I listen to some of the primitives or very early examples such
as Billy Lee Riley, Johnny Horton, Gene Vincent, Eddie Cochran
and on and on I still get chills. I've played with several of
the pioneers and while most don't have that passion they
possessed in their youth it was still an honor.
A good friend of mine, Paul Peek who was one of the early Blue
Caps with Gene Vincent, is very ill with liver disease. I speak
with him occasionally but he's got stories that would fill
several volumns.
Anyone that's ever played behind Jerry Lee can tell you about
the crazed energy you feel when you have no idea what's coming
next. Literally, the man circles many planets.
Check out Warren Smith, Charlie Feathers, and many other early
Sun Pioneers. I got to see the Sun Rhythm Section several years
ago in Atlanta and while they were men in the late 50's and 60's
they were more fun that ten Pearl Jams.
Darryl Rhoades
Bill Bugge
"darryl rhoades" <_sunglas...@excite.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:1eddd5a0...@usw-ex0106-047.remarq.com...
> Anyone that's ever played behind Jerry Lee can tell you about
> the crazed energy you feel when you have no idea what's coming
> next. Literally, the man circles many planets.
But Darryl, most of the Rockabilly enthusiasts in this group will tell you
Jerry Lee wasn't Rockabilly.
Jim Colegrove
wrote:
>In article <clmvissulbnmg9dqi...@4ax.com>, Jim Colegrove
You see, here we go with the definitions again. When I brought this
"truly great" definition up with Bob Roman his response was "Use any
definition, any standard, you like, but be consistent across the two
genres."
We are going back to this arguement about what this means or that
means to this person or that person. The old "subjectivty" versus
"objectivity" again. What I think is "truly great" in "rockabilly"
may make some people puke their guts out. Some people can't drink
their whiskey straight either.
What's the count on the doo-wop list? Better throw those at the
bottom out.
Jim Colegrove
co...@thecoolgroove.com
Jim Colegrove
>
>
>"darryl rhoades" <_sunglas...@excite.com.invalid> wrote in message
>news:1eddd5a0...@usw-ex0106-047.remarq.com...
>> Anyone that's ever played behind Jerry Lee can tell you about
>> the crazed energy you feel when you have no idea what's coming
>> next. Literally, the man circles many planets.
>
>But Darryl, most of the Rockabilly enthusiasts in this group will tell you
>Jerry Lee wasn't Rockabilly.
There are reference books on the subject of "rockabilly" that include
Jerry Lee Lewis.
Jim Colegrove
co...@thecoolgroove.com
Jim Colegrove
Mark Dintenfass
rhoades <_sunglas...@excite.com.invalid> wrote:
> In article <260520001950536896%ml...@execpc.com>, Mark
> Anyone that's ever played behind Jerry Lee can tell you about
> the crazed energy you feel when you have no idea what's coming
> next. Literally, the man circles many planets.
> Check out Warren Smith, Charlie Feathers, and many other early
> Sun Pioneers. I got to see the Sun Rhythm Section several years
> ago in Atlanta and while they were men in the late 50's and 60's
> they were more fun that ten Pearl Jams.
> Darryl Rhoades
Darryl,
Just to set the record straight, the RAB I was talking about is not the
music of people like Horton, Vincent, Cochran, and Lewis, which I like
a lot and which isn't RAB according to the aficionados. The rule of
thumb seems to be that if non-aficionados have heard of the artist, it
isn't "real" RAB.
--md
Mark Dintenfass
<co...@thecoolgroove.com> wrote:
Ray Charles, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Fats Domino, Sam Cooke, the
Impressions. And that pretty much completes my list of the "truly
great" in the 50s. Then would come a list of "greats," with maybe a
dozen names headed by Jackie Wilson, Clyde McPhatter, the Drifters, the
Clovers, and, in a generous mood, the Orioles and the Cadillacs. Maybe
I've forgotten a name or two that someone will remind me of. After that
my rankings become very good to awful. I'll confess, however, that my
students complain because I am a hard grader.
--md
Dean F.
>The rule of thumb seems to be that if non-aficionados have heard
>of the artist, it isn't "real" RAB.
Can you say, "self-ghettoization"?
Al Galek
don't think so. What do you think? How about Ricky Nelson?
AL
Bill Bugge
"darryl rhoades" <_sunglas...@excite.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:1eddd5a0...@usw-ex0106-047.remarq.com...
> Check out ........ Sun Pioneers.
I especially enjoy their "Cool Water" and "Tumblin' Tumbleweeds." ;-)
Bill Bugge
"Jim Colegrove" <co...@thecoolgroove.com> wrote in message
news:rr1uis05f4ec7vcrb...@4ax.com...
> Rockabilly, however you define it is certainly one of my favorites.
>
>
What if I define it as R&B vocal group harmony or white vocal group harmony
rooted in R&B from the late 40's to the early 60's? ;-)
Bill Bugge
"Jim Colegrove" <co...@thecoolgroove.com> wrote in message
news:al70jso1ph5jhqlfi...@4ax.com...
>
> >There are reference books on the subject of "rockabilly" that include
> >Jerry Lee Lewis.
> >
>
> Certainly more than include Johnny Cash :)
>
>
The one I have ("The Rolling Stone Illustrated History Of Rock & Roll")
includes both.
Bob Roman
>[...]they were not recognized as distinct from the birthing
>musical form at that time - they hadn't reached that critical
>mass. With Elvis, everything was changed.
>
>In country the same could be said of Eck Robertson's 1922
>cuts. It is frequntly called the first country record. Still,
>the real critical mass, when country is recognized as something
>truly distinct, occurs in Bristol in 1927. After that event,
>everything is changed.
Good analogy. For those not familiar with the history of C&W,
you are referring to the first sessions by both Jimmie Rodgers
and the Carter Family. But is the Bill Haley figure in this
story Vernon Dalhart or Dave Macon?
Bob Roman
Jim Colegrove
>>the Sons of the Pioneers did cut a couple rockabilly styled songs.
>>
>>
>>I'd love to hear what the purists think about that.
>>
>>
>Don't worry about the hardcore purists, no one takes them seriously anyway. By
>now, most have limited their definition of rockabilly so tightly that its now
>down to one record by an unidentified artist out of Paducah, Kentucky. That
>record, unfortunately, was lost in 1962. Everything else is only an attempt at
>rockabilly.
>
>;^)
You must be referring to that truly great rockabilly: The Duck of
Paducah!
Jim Colegrove
co...@thecoolgroove.com
Bill Bugge
"Rockabi101" <rocka...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000527212818...@ng-fe1.aol.com...
the Sons of the Pioneers did cut a couple rockabilly styled
> songs.
I'd love to hear what the purists think about that.
Mark Dintenfass
<no...@operamail.com> wrote:
> >
> >Darryl,
> >
> >Just to set the record straight, the RAB I was talking about is not the
> >music of people like Horton, Vincent, Cochran, and Lewis, which I like
> >a lot and which isn't RAB according to the aficionados. The rule of
> >thumb seems to be that if non-aficionados have heard of the artist, it
> >isn't "real" RAB.
>
> Then I guess you've never heard of Carl Perkins. He was just about the
> first--(if you discount the Elvis Sun stuff which I usually do) to have some
> of
> the really good stuff especially with "Boppin The Blues"
Norm,
If you re-read my original message, you'll find I said "with the
exception of Carl Perkins."
--md
Jim Colegrove
wrote:
>I have heard Buddy Knox and Charlie Gracie described as rockabilly but I
>don't think so. What do you think? How about Ricky Nelson?
>
>AL
>
>
>
Let me just say that I don't think all artists that made rockabilly
recordings are by definition "rockabilly artists." Many are rock and
roll artists that also made some rockabilly records.
I haven't really heard enough of Charlie Gracie's records to say.
What I have heard indicates to me that if he had wanted to do
rockabilly he could. I think some of Buddy Knox's records are
rockabilly, not all. Ricky Nelson had a rockabilly band when he hired
Bob Luman's band to back him up. I think some of his records are
rockabilly. But I also think that rockabilly falls under the great
umbrella that is rock and roll.
When I was 16, in the spring of 1958, I was in my first "rock and
roll" band. By and large, our repertoire was what was later defined
as "rockabilly" songs. No bands that we knew of, at least in my area
of the country, which was southern Ohio, defined themselves as
"rockabilly." If they played music with a beat they referred to
themselves as a "rock and roll" band. While the term "rockabilly" had
been used in some magazines and on the Guy Mitchell record, we thought
of it as something some press agent in New York must have made up and
it wasn't something we wanted to be known as. The term "rockabilly"
stemmed from "hillbilly" and that's something we were trying to get
away from.
Jim Colegrove
co...@thecoolgroove.com
Dean F.
Hartford, Connecticut, in the '40s and '50s:
"Nobody I knew listened to rockabilly. We were into Chuck Berry,
Little Richard, and doo-wop. If we caught any of our buddies
listening to that hillbilly shit, we ridiculed the fuck out of
him. And that went double for anybody we caught listening to that
asshole, Presley."
I never had the heart to tell dad that one of his favorite
Italian-American rockers, Dion, has cited Hank Williams as an
influence!
RealWildChild
THANKS BILL BUGGE
for starting this thread on Rockabilly
I'm a Newbie to this group, Hi everyone.
I like every type of popular music from the 50's
with the exception of Tony Martin type sounds.
For instance I love:
Whatever Lola Wants by Sarah Vaughan
I Forgot To Remember To Forget by Elvis
Real Wild Child {take 1} by Buddy Holly
26 Miles (Santa Catalina) by the Four Preps (1958)
Henrietta by Jimmy Dee & The Offbeats
and Love is Strange by Mickey and Sylvia (1957)
I admit, in general, to being more influenced (turned on) by the
overall sound of a recording rather than the lyrics.
My life-long favourite (favorite :-) ELVIS PRESLEY
My fav 50's rockabilly artist so far:
Werly Fairburn
I think it was the legendary Spade that posted a collection of
Werly's songs, including the awesome Telephone Baby, a year or
so ago
And I would like to mention Don Woody.
On scanning this wonderful thread, here are some of the gems for
me.
Elvis at Sun is considered rockabilly by most (the knock against
him by purists is he's too slick) and Jerry Lee at Sun is
considered rockabilly only by a few (the knock against him is
he's too boogie-woogie).
Bob Roman
The definition of rockabilly has been debated long and hard by
some in this group and the term "truly great" could be as well
Jim Colgrove
a whole lot of my favorite rockabilly records are by artists who
did not wax a whole string of great singles, but only one, two,
or possibly three ass-kickers before they disappeared for good
Dean F.
the best doo-wop is truly sublime music
Dean F.
Elvis' final 20 years were a tragedy worthy of Shakespeare
Dean.F.
I had never heard any of these until the experts around here
started sharing. Thanks again all.
Steve Mc
I'm getting tired of this. Lets talk about
something even more obscure, like British
skittle!
Mike Rice :-)
He is frequently mentioned as a black rockabilly artist. Chuck
acknowledges the country influence in his music and felt himself
a rockabilly artist. There were few black rockabilly releases,
but there were some. Big Al Downing had several and I've always
thought Teddy Humphries' "Guitar Pickin' Fool" qualifies.
Rockabi101
I admit the presence of sax has always hurt Haley.
(Some "purists" insist a sax is outside the definition of
rockabilly.)
Rockabi101
Before that, there are unusual examples within another form that
we might identify today as rockabilly
Rockabi101
If anything, rockabilly was as influenced, if not more
influenced, by bluegrass than honky-tonk
Rockabi101
There were more Doo Wop groups than there were rockabilly
groups. The reason being that a Doo Wop group only needed a
mixture of voices while a rockabilly group needed
instrumentation. Anyone could from a doo wop group as there was
no costs involved
dkp
there are so many more whom I think are "truly great" that fall
into the obscure catagory
Jim Colegrove (Werly Fairburn?)
You don't find them singing rockabilly because rockabilly is
more than the singing
Peneny
Anyone that's ever played behind Jerry Lee can tell you about
the crazed energy you feel when you have no idea what's coming
next
Darryl Rhoades
Don't worry about the hardcore purists, no one takes them
seriously anyway
Rockabi101
{in 1958} No bands that we knew of, at least in my area of the
country, which was southern Ohio, defined themselves
as "rockabilly." If they played music with a beat they referred
to themselves as a "rock and roll" band. While the
term "rockabilly" had been used in some magazines and on the Guy
Mitchell record, we thought of it as something some press agent
in New York must have made up and it wasn't something we wanted
to be known as. The term "rockabilly" stemmed from "hillbilly"
and that's something we were trying to get away from.
Jim Colgrove
And finally, to be controversial perhaps, I'm surprised at many
of the implied recommendations in this thread. They are
recordings that I would consider to be "Rockabilly Lite" as
distinct from "G-Spot Rockabilly" (for want of a better word).
The latter category, in my humble opinion, would include:
Alvis Wayne - Don't Mean Maybe Baby (1958)
Alvadean Coker - We're Gonna Bop (1955)
Dave Diddle Ray - Blue Moon Baby (1957)
Ronnie Dee - Action Packed (1958)
Dwight Pullen - Teenage Bug (1958)
Terry Daly - You Don't Bug Me (1958)
Tracey Pendarvis & The Swingers - A Thousand Guitars (1960)
The first recording doesn't seem to be listed in
Rockabillyhall.com?
Warm regards
Geoff
Jim Colegrove
<letsrock...@pobox.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>THANKS BILL BUGGE
>
> for starting this thread on Rockabilly
>
>I'm a Newbie to this group, Hi everyone.
>
>I like every type of popular music from the 50's
>with the exception of Tony Martin type sounds.
>
>For instance I love:
> Whatever Lola Wants by Sarah Vaughan
> I Forgot To Remember To Forget by Elvis
> Real Wild Child {take 1} by Buddy Holly
> 26 Miles (Santa Catalina) by the Four Preps (1958)
> Henrietta by Jimmy Dee & The Offbeats
>and Love is Strange by Mickey and Sylvia (1957)
>
>I admit, in general, to being more influenced (turned on) by the
>overall sound of a recording rather than the lyrics.
>
>My life-long favourite (favorite :-) ELVIS PRESLEY
>
>My fav 50's rockabilly artist so far:
>
>Werly Fairburn
>
He just happens to be on my "truly great" list.
Jim Colegrove
co...@thecoolgroove.com
Bill Bugge
"RealWildChild" <letsrock...@pobox.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:0edc5da9...@usw-ex0105-035.remarq.com...
>
> THANKS BILL BUGGE
>
> for starting this thread on Rockabilly
>
> I'm a Newbie to this group, Hi everyone.
>
You're welcome and welcome.
Even though I am not a fan of the genre, at least what the purists now
consider Rockabilly, I was impressed by the participation in this thread. It
trounced the "Vocal Group" and "Blues" threads by a wide margin.
But that's probably primarily due to the points made by the early posters in
the thread, inviting further response, and because vocal groups are
discussed here much more frequently. I suppose the Rockabilly fans get
starved for attention and jump when they get a chance to discuss it.
I believe the longest running thread in this group was one on Rockabilly
which I started probably more than a year ago.
Dean F.
>of the implied recommendations in this thread. They
>are recordings that I would consider to be "Rockabilly Lite"
What recordings would those be? Forgive me, but I really don't
feel like going back and re-reading this whole thread!
And pelase tell me that your definition of "Rockabilly Lite" does
not include my all-time favorite recording in the genre, Johnny
Burnette's "Train Kept A-Rollin'."
>as distinct from "G-Spot Rockabilly" (for want of a better
>word).
Hey, I like that term! I'll have to use it on the air some time.
>The latter category, in my humble opinion, would include:
<snipped>
>Alvadean Coker - We're Gonna Bop (1955)
Too redneck for my Connecticut-born ass.
>Dave Diddle Ray - Blue Moon Baby (1957)
Fucking awesome record! You've gotta love a guy whose nickname
was a synonom for the sex act.
>Ronnie Dee - Action Packed (1958)
Another awesome tune! I also love "Rockin' Bones."
RealWildChild
>{'Rockabilly Lite'} What recordings would those be? Forgive me,
but I really don't feel like going back and re-reading this
whole thread!
Um, are you trying to get me into trouble :-) Well, I'll name
one.
That Long Black Train by Franklin Stewart
It's not bad, but it's not 'exciting' and it does not, for me,
have any indefinable magical qualities (tension?) as found, for
example, in Don Woody's slower paced Morse Code when a third
of the way thru he sings 'well I love you ...'
What's 'exciting' - Rockin' In The Graveyard by Jackie
Morningstar
('tension' records - classic examples being, of course, Del
Shannon's Runaway, Roy Orbison's Only The Lonely, Dion's
Runaround Sue, Jackie Wilson's Lonely Teardrops)
By the way, if you read this group via Remarq.com one can easily
and quickly read/scan the thread of 71 messages on just 3 pages.
>And please tell me that your definition of "Rockabilly Lite"
does
>not include my all-time favorite recording in the genre, Johnny
>Burnette's "Train Kept A-Rollin'."
>
Of Course Not Dean, The Johnny Burnette Trio on Coral were wild.
Actually, of my modest collection of nine 50's tracks, which
includes Train.., I like best an Alan Freed show recording of Oh
Baby, Babe and Tear It Up. Of the less frenetic numbers I like
I Just Found Out.
Going off thread now, please forgive.
I won't expect a response if it's not, but Dean is your radio
show on the internet? Unless they know already, do you want to
tell the group about your show, its format, content, where, when
etc?
Would there be any value in starting a thread containing
fav/recommended links to 50's pop, rock and R & B sites with
substantial info, such as dates for one's mp3s - or has this
been done recently, or is it a case of 'Look, we know how to use
a search engine mate/buddy' Anyway, here's one or two or three
http://www.tsimon.com/rrlinks.htm
http://www.summer.com.br/~pfilho/html/main_index/welcome.html
(lyrics)
back on thread!
http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=rockabilly&id=89&list
Geoff
Bob Roman
>Ronnie Dee - Action Packed (1958)
This is just my taste, but I don't like kid-vocal rockabilly any
more than I like kid-vocal doo-wop.
Bob Roman
Dean F.
>Morningstar
Yes, another fantastically frantic hunka hunka burning
rockabilly!
>('tension' records - classic examples being, of course, Del
>Shannon's Runaway, Roy Orbison's Only The Lonely,
>Dion's Runaround Sue, Jackie Wilson's Lonely Teardrops)
Hmm.... I love all those tunes, but I never thought of any of
them as rockabilly.
>Going off thread now, please forgive.
I absolve you, my child! :-)
>I won't expect a response if it's not, but Dean is your radio
>show on the internet?
Sure is! It webcasts at the oh-so-convenient time slot of
midnight-3:00 a.m. on Saturday nights (or Sunday mornings,
depending on how you look at it).
>Unless they know already, do you want to tell the group about
>your show, its format, content, where, when etc?
It's called "The Roots Rock Revue." I'm doing it for the summer
only as my college radio station has experienced a severe DJ
shortage with the students going.
My format is R&B, doo-wop, rockabilly, surf music, girl groups,
and garage rock, mostly (but not exclusively) from the '50s and
'60s. You can get to the webcasr via my homepage:
http://whusfm.saup.uconn.edu/SoulExpress/index.html
Unfortunately, last weekend--when my show just happened to
premiere!--the webcast was down, but as of this evening, it's
back up and running.