Brutal Attack on REM & Michael
CiRcUsBoY
about music they found less than satisfying through the years. It just what
floats your boat. To me a brutal attack is more of a personal nature not
just a criticism of the music. Alls fair in rock and roll :)
"Stipecast" <stip...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991224195551...@ng-fh1.aol.com...
>
>
>
> The L.A. Times just published a really nasty letter from a Beatles fan
> attacking REM and Michael.
>
> Here's the letter. Written by someone called Martin Lewis. The name
> does seem real familiar. (And I don't mean the comedy team of Martin &
> Lewis!) Anyone know who this REM hater is?
>
>
> Unlike a Rolling Stone
>
> Arno Keks makes the usual mistakes of the small but vocal Beatles-denial
> squad (Letters, Dec. 12). Bob Dylan and the Beatles influenced each
> other. Dylan's lyrics inspired John Lennon. The Beatles' energy
> cantilevered Dylan's electrification.
>
> Keks equates the Rolling Stones' survival compared to the Beatles'
> breakup as indication of some significance. But the Stones' valid
> contributions to contemporary rock were in narrower straits than the
> important quantum leaps in writing and recording engineered by the
> Beatles.
>
> (The reason the Stones continue to tour as a geriatric, Vegas
> self-parody is partly because Mick Jagger still has an enormous chip on
> his shoulder about the Stones perennially being No. 2 to the Beatles.)
>
> Finally, Michael Stipe has been whining for years about how he was never
> influenced by the Beatles and how they created elevator music. But
> without the Beatles' influence on Stipe's heroes, R.E.M. would still be
> taking the stairs. Stipe is accurate though about the lack of direct
> influence. A careful examination behind the myth of the
> self-hagiographic R.E.M. reveals that Stipe was clearly more influenced
> by the Monkees.
>
> MARTIN LEWIS
> Los Angeles
>
>
>
Stipecast
Chris Brown
> attacking REM and Michael.
>
> influenced by the Beatles and how they created elevator music. But
> without the Beatles' influence on Stipe's heroes, R.E.M. would still be
> taking the stairs. Stipe is accurate though about the lack of direct
> influence. A careful examination behind the myth of the
> self-hagiographic R.E.M. reveals that Stipe was clearly more influenced
> by the Monkees.
Whaaa? He said R.E.M. were *influenced by the Beatles*? How can this man
sleep at night? ;-)
Chris
Carl-Fredrik Bergdahl
> without the Beatles' influence on Stipe's heroes, R.E.M. would still be
> taking the stairs.
hehe, I always take the stairs, rather than elevators and escalators...
> influence. A careful examination behind the myth of the
> self-hagiographic R.E.M. reveals that Stipe was clearly more influenced
> by the Monkees.
In-dept analysis, indeed... hasn't he even said so?
/Kalle
--
"I would like details of the service that you offer because I have
an unfeasibly small penis"
(Hank (Henry Race), questioning how to respond to offers of enlargement)
Zebra Corp.
like you haven't heard "I Am The Walrus."
--
- Zebra Corp.
AMYSA
>influenced by the Beatles and how they created elevator music.
this always amuses me. i mean, how hard is it to quote michael directly, rather
than say what you think you heard him say?
>A careful examination behind the myth of the
>self-hagiographic R.E.M. reveals that Stipe was clearly more influenced
>by the Monkees.
ooohh...newsflash. no examination necessary. didn't michael say this in the
same article that everyone is so fond of misquoting?
oh well...it's not as if this actually bothers me. i just always get a kick out
of these random mentions of michael's supposed hatred of the beatles. so, they
meant nothing to him. well, lots of wonderful bands mean nothing at all to
me...life sucks sometimes.
in all fairness, though, there was nothing really brutal or attacking in the
article...just some numbskull thinking that people care what he has to say. we
all do that on a daily basis. but, at least most of us quote correctly. <g>
amy
holden: "you've got a weird thing for canadian melodrama."
banky: "i've got a weird thing for girls who say aboot."
Matchitatt
>self-hagiographic R.E.M. reveals that Stipe was clearly more influenced
>by the Monkees.
I am *sooo* amused! Brutal? Not by half. Blustering bag o' wind? You bet your
bellows. The real undie-buncher here, however, is this absurdly tortured,
mongrel hyphenation of his, "self-hagiographic." What in the world? What
twaddle! What unnecessary, abstruse pollysylabication
(to promptly commit the crime myself <g>.) Clearly the lad has yet to doff his
grad-student's cap, gown, or his academic's tin ear. Man, that is one fiercely
unlovely coinage to commit to print--not to MENTION preposterous in its
implication (at length now; bear with me):
A hagiographer is simply a scholar of the lives of saints. (Catholics and
readers of Robertson Davies know these things--despite themselves.) So
apparently (ahem; I'm warming to my rant)--apparently the writer of this
*dropping* is trying to say (ever-so-maladroitly) that R.E.M. have canonized
themselves; that they've become the object of their own beatitude. Really now,
of all unlikely bands at which to level such a charge. If Michael's recent
kitch-ploom fairy turn on SNL isn't sufficient proof that the band has
resolutely checked its ego with the hat-check girl (doubtless the skit was
sanctioned by the whole group or it wouldn't have aired), a *careful
examination* of the largely self-mocking (and sweetly vulnerable) DLO ought to
do the job. I realize I'm preaching to the choir now, but consider also
R.E.M.'s very dexterous, NEVER hamfisted, NEVER preachy treatment of some
pretty perilous subjects (for today's been-the, religion, fame, narcissism,
excess (NAIHF); political corruption, (half)-redemption and jubilant
release-ITEOTWAWKI (Doc); psychosexual manipulation and siege-level desire
(Monster); loss, love, anomie, penance (UP)--just to name a few. Big concepts
like these would have tripped up a lesser band, but R.E.M. makes it live and
breathe. Wouldn't you agree that one of the finest and most rarefied
achievements of R.E.M. is that they are consistently able, by some ineffable,
collaborative magic, to create moving (and often dicey topical) music, without
ever hitting a sour, sanctimonious or knowing note? Isn't that in part the
beauty of R.E.M, that they have the balls to take on material already
sensationalized and/or sentimentalized within the rock-n-roll ethos--and just
lay it bare, fearlessly, defenses down? Their forthrightness and humility is
why I, in good measure, love and admire them so much. Country Feedback was not
created by anybody in the throes of self-piety. Nor World Leader Pretend. Nor
Strange Currencies. Nor Be Mine. I could go on (and on) but you get the idea.
I don't mean to say they've never blundered--they have and they know it--and
that fact alone it should make it plain (to anyone who's paying an ounce of
attention, buster) that they are SO FAR from having appointed themselves
rock-n-roll's seer-saints (I think we can safely leave that to Bono & Co.), or
having consecrated their songs as hymnals ex cathedra (Life and How to Live
It--the irony), I really have to wonder if this bozo
thesis-paper-writer-cum-ersatz-journalist has ever given R.E.M. a thoroughgoing
listen! He CAN'T have done. I recognize his type. He's just a grotesquely
hyphenated, extra-cerebral, deconstructed pomo blowhard. Why do I bother? (Why
indeed? you sing in chorus.) Don't you just KNOW he'd be the guy in the crowd
to intone (over frog-legs and martinis at the Metronome) something really
bullying and loutish and (sickeningly) clever about, oh god, I dunno, say, J.D.
Salinger or Thoreau or the Easter Bunny, or some other such (near) innocent? At
the outset of this over-long post (forgive me) I said I was amused by this news
piece--and I still am, despite my cranky timbres at the moment--but it's just
that (hmmm)--why is this bothering me so much? I'm troubled because there are
so many folks of likemind and in cynical, ironical lockstep with our punky
little pedant here; "smart" people who evidently feel it's their matriculated
duty to go around pissing on every little thing that turns up beautiful and
blameless in this world. And I guess that does make me feel a little sorry, a
little sad.
O, much ado about some twaddly-poo. Back to wrapping presents. Merry Christmas
to those of you who are observing; happy Dec. 25 to all. Thanks for going the
whole breathless nine yards with me.
H. Madigan
Matchitatt
>(for today's been-the,
from previous post, explicated by Matchitatt (a.k.a., H. Madigan) herself.
(IT IS OF TREMENDOUS IMPORTANCE THAT YOU READ AND ABSORB THIS)
As if it weren't enough that I went on at a merry, self-indulgent length about
the so-called Brutal Attack in the LA Times, now I'm quoting myself from that
post and--gasp!--annotating. But wait! I'm not just a ng piggy--my message got
scrambled! I'm well aware that it was enough of a tiresome ass-pain to read in
any event, so I'd like to take this opportunity to correct my electronic
errata. The fucked up (arrgh!) line goes like this (no one cares about this but
me, I know): "for today's been-there, done-that rock-n-roll ubiquity):
Now you're all gonna arrow back and try once again to make sense of it all,
right?
Blushing like sundown,
H. Madigan
jennie
me too :) elevators frighten me a little. and i really dont mind taking the
stairs most of the time.
as for the article, i didnt think it was brutal, just kind of stupid. the
writer really didnt say much of anything.
~jennie :)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
QOTD: "I'm pushing an elephant up your nose..." --my mom :)
house of bean: http://www.angelfire.com/ga/jbean
Christi Rose
stip...@aol.com (Stipecast) quoted Martin Lewis:
> Finally, Michael Stipe has been whining for years about how he was never
> influenced by the Beatles and how they created elevator music. But
> without the Beatles' influence on Stipe's heroes, R.E.M. would still be
> taking the stairs. Stipe is accurate though about the lack of direct
> influence. A careful examination behind the myth of the
> self-hagiographic R.E.M. reveals that Stipe was clearly more influenced
> by the Monkees.
>
> MARTIN LEWIS
> Los Angeles
What Martin forgets is that there are there are other people in REM who
have listened to enough of the Beatles -- REM never was, and still is not,
Michael Stipe only.
Christi.
--
"If the dancers are attempting to prove that gravity does not exist,
then it's ballet.
If the dancers are attempting to demonstrate that gravity does
exist and it's a bitch, then it's modern.
If the dancers are attempting to demonstrate that gravity does
exist but they'd rather die fighting it than give in to it,
then it's jazz."
--Tom Parke
*** send replies to car...@metro.net ***
Ron Henry
>Here’s the letter. Written by someone called Martin Lewis. The name
>does seem real familiar. (And I don’t mean the comedy team of Martin &
>Lewis!) Anyone know who this REM hater is?
Ah, cranks are a dime a dozen. I like the Beatles greatly, and have since I
was a kid, but there are rabid fans who begin frothing at any sign of
"heretics" who might argue that the Beatles are not the most important thing
to happen to music in the 20th century. Shrug. You have to take such folks
with the grain of salt they deserve.
The Beatles were great, sure; but Stipe saying they didn't mean much to him
when he was growing up hardly warrants the overreactions he has gotten. It
amuses me that these rabid fans are essentially reacting like the
fundamentalists who castigated John Lennon for comments like "We're bigger
than Jesus".
>Finally, Michael Stipe has been whining for years about how he was never
>influenced by the Beatles and how they created elevator music. But
>without the Beatles' influence on Stipe's heroes, R.E.M. would still be
>taking the stairs. Stipe is accurate though about the lack of direct
>influence. A careful examination behind the myth of the
>self-hagiographic R.E.M. reveals that Stipe was clearly more influenced
>by the Monkees.
I don't think many people would take such a cheap shot very seriously.
Ron
--
Ron Henry ronh...@clarityconnect.com
http://people2.clarityconnect.com/webpages6/ronhenry/
Kristin
>>influenced by the Beatles and how they created elevator music. But
>>without the Beatles' influence on Stipe's heroes, R.E.M. would still be
>>taking the stairs. Stipe is accurate though about the lack of direct
>>influence. A careful examination behind the myth of the
>>self-hagiographic R.E.M. reveals that Stipe was clearly more influenced
>>by the Monkees.
>
stipe has said all of this. that he never liked the beatles much but that he
recognizes their influence. and that he prefers the monkees. what, exactly, is
the insult? aside from churlish words like "whining" and "hagiographic" which
are just immature slaps that cranky people use when they waste time writing
about people they don't like. which is always a waste of time.
Kristin
TO REPLY, REMOVE "MY UNDIES"