Michael Stipe & Natalie Merchant - Independent article
Neil Brown
two of them, which I could have attached but I didn't think you'd thank me
for it.
{Intro, in bold text}
Michael Stipe, 33, is the lead singer with multi-million-selling rock band
REM, which formed in Athens, Georgia, in 1980. He is also executive producer
of Todd Haynes’ glam-rock film, Velvet Goldmine. REM's new album, Up was
released last month and is at number 2 in the album charts. Natalie
Merchant, 35, is the former vocalist of the New York-based band 10,000
Maniacs. Her erudite debut solo album Tigerlily, sold more than four million
copies in America alone. Her newly released solo album, Ophelia, is
accompanied by a short film in which she plays seven of the characters from
the songs. To "stay connected", she continues to do regular voluntary work
with the homeless.
MICHAEL STIPE: I knew of Natalie before I met her. In Athens, Georgia, where
I live, everybody was talking about this girl who danced like a whirling
dervish and sang in a band called 10,000 Maniacs. I went to see them perform
in this tiny, packed dub in 1983 and we met shortly after that.
Our first meeting was controversial - it's become something of a legend. I'm
incredibly shy and it was at a horrible party. Apparently, I handed her a
paper bag, then wandered into the bathroom. I escaped through the window,
but eventually I had to come back because Natalie had my bag. She was
probably a little frightened to meet me, but that wouldn't have occurred to
me back then.
The next time I saw her was in Buffalo, New York. I was surprised and really
pleased to see her. Even at the beginning of our friendship, I remember
thinking that Natalie possessed rare knowledge. If there are 12 ways of
looking at something, Natalie will always find a 13th.
Natalie was really the reason my work became politicised in the late
Eighties. The work she was doing was real and important - all about the
human condition. It was a very accurate reflection of the power and greed
the time, and I was impressed by her understanding. Through our
conversations, I got to thinking that the plight of the native American
Indians was a very important issue.
I've always placed great value on shared experiences. There's this idea that
entertainers are this rarefied breed who never have to grow up. That’s not
true of Natalie and me, but I do think we've retained a childlike sense of
wonder about the world. I remember being in New Orleans with her one time.
We had bought a fake tattoo of this ridiculous giant fish and it was so big
that Natalie put on one half and I put on the other. We went stomping around
New Orleans and, typically, Natalie knew more about the city than I did - I
had no idea how or why. I remember talking on some steps and Natalie
pointing out some fellows who had real tattoos. That scared her for some
reason.
I've always been jealous of Natalie’s ability to draw. She keeps journals
and carries sketchbooks around with her. I'm very scattered with my ideas,
whereas she's very thorough and methodical. Natalie’s also got a really
wicked sense of humour. In the press she’s often portrayed as a bit of a
saddo –this flighty, hippy girl who preaches from on high. I think she's
been pigeonholed as a certain kind of female performer, but she's very smart
and funny and doesn't need to prove herself to anybody.
There was an interview that she gave for Us magazine recently, and the
journalist was trying to make it more snarky – ‘snarky’ being a term that
was coined by Entertainment Weekly to describe interviews full of gossip and
slamming of other people. So the journalist was being smug and
mean-spirited, while Natalie was saying these amazing things, trying to
explain why she didn't want to waste the platform her album has given her by
being cynical and ironic. That struck a chord with me. Natalie can
articulate and condense ideas that I’ve had but haven’t been able to
vocalise.
I think the reason our friendship has endured is quite simple - we like each
other a lot. Someone once said that when you see a person after a long time
and you're instantly transported back to the last time you were together,
then that’s how you know a true friend. That’s how it is with us. We have
privileged positions but we've also had to contend with things that most
people don’t: how do you present yourself publicly and deal with it when
that’s handled unfairly? How do you maintain your humour and not allow the
uglier side of your public persona to creep into your real life? I'm really
proud that we've managed to hold on to the essence of our friendship. What
that essence is, I can't pinpoint for you, but it's a great thing.
NATALIE MERCHANT. 1 met Michael 15 years ago in Atlanta, Georgia, around the
time that REM's Reckoning album came out. They were playing a benefit for an
environmental group in a small club. REM excited me because they made this
sound that was distinctly American, yet wasn’t urban. Their music had a
Southern quality in the same way that William Faulkner or Truman Capote
have, and, like 10,000 Maniacs, they had this scene growing around them in
the countryside. I felt a kinship. I also thought Michael was really sexy
and I had a crush on him. I drove 500 miles to meet him on my day off. In my
head it was supposed to be this epic summit, but it was horrible and I
decided I hated him.
Michael is very charismatic and he'll always have a circle of people at
least three deep around him. Later, I came to refer to this as 'the
12-headed monster'. I met him at the after-show party and he was kind of
cagey with me. He wasn't that famous at the time but being as shy and as
young as I was, it was a real big step for me to seek out another musician.
He handed me a paper bag, said "Can you hold this for me?', then wandered
off to the bathroom for about 45 minutes. I remember waiting outside like an
obedient puppy, and the longer sat there the more furious and embarrassed I
became. He was just hiding because he needed some space but took it
personally. When he came back I gave him the bag and left in a huff
Our second meeting was much better. REM were playing in Buffalo New York,
about 100 miles from where the Maniacs and I lived. Our bands shared the
same promoter, so I knew they were playing and I turned up at the
soundcheck. At that time I was into vintage clothing and I was quite , a
quirky little girl. I’d brought my juggling balls and I was wearing a pair
of Victorian bloomers and a pyjama top. Michael was wearing his pyjamas that
day, so we made a pretty funny-looking couple when we went to this
vegetarian restaurant. We talked about music and had a great time. I was
doing a lot of research about the genocide against the native American
Indians, and we made a pact that we'd both write songs about their plight.
Michael wrote ‘Green Grow The Rushes' and I wrote ‘Among The Americans'.
Both songs appeared on our next records. I look at that as the beginning of
our friendship.
On stage that night Michael seemed to be channelling some really powerful
energy through his body. When he's having an on-night it can be like
watching a shamanistic ritual. There was less hype about REM then and they
were young and on fire. After that meeting in Buffalo I went home on a high.
I felt that Michael had began to understand why I’d sought him out, and he
must have thought I was pretty cute, because we went on to become lovers.
REM were instrumental in securing industry interest for 10,000 Maniacs, and
they were also great for guidance. I remember Michael saying, 'Don't sell
your publishing, Natalie, it's your virginity. Never give it up.' I wasn’t
sure about the metaphor but it made me think. To this day I still own all my
publishing so that nobody can use my songs without my signature.
I admire Michael's sovereignty and originality as an artist. He's a
photographer, poet and painter as well as a singer, and he's always
encouraging other young artists. I admire the strong bond he has with his
parents and sister and that's obviously been important for him. He also has
very long friendships. Most of the people who were in our circle 15 years
ago are still in it, and even though I don't see Michael that often, when we
do meet there's that feeling of closeness. There are maybe six people in my
life who I could say that about.
We know each other pretty well - as former lovers there's a certain shared
knowledge you can’t unlearn. Michael thinks I read a lot more than I do,
though, and he thinks I'm a better musician than I actually am. If I sit
down at the piano he's like, 'Oh my God! Liberace's in the room!' I'm a very
passionate player but technically I'm no good at all. I've always thought it
would be interesting to see what kind of music Michael would come up with if
he learnt an instrument. I’ve been encouraging him to do that ever since we
met, but his interests lie elsewhere. His life is fast-paced and there's a
lot of it I'm not clued in to. He can spend weeks on end going to parties in
Los Angeles. I abhor LA - that's a major difference.
If Michael sees a piece of art or hears a piece of music that inspires him,
he has to meet the person behind it - and he does. I envy him that: he
learns so much from these people and I'd like to as well. He's good friends
with Radiohead, for example, and I'm dying to sing with Thom Yorke, but too
terrified to meet him. Michael will say, 'I'll give him a call right now,'
and I'll go, 'No, put the phone down.' I'm the flower that Michael peels off
the wall to introduce to people. It’s a good friendship to have, and I hope
I have it for the rest of my life.
(Interviews by James McNair)
kfj
>This is that 'How We Met ' interview. It was accompanied by a photo of the
>two of them, which I could have attached but I didn't think you'd thank me
>for it.
>
> {Intro, in bold text}
>
>Michael Stipe, 33,
um, yeah, in 1993 he was 33! He's 38, right? 2 months away from being 39?
>NATALIE MERCHANT.
>I also thought Michael was really sexy
>and I had a crush on him. I drove 500 miles to meet him on my day off. In
my
>head it was supposed to be this epic summit, but it was horrible and I
>decided I hated him.
>I felt that Michael had began to understand why I’d sought him out, and he
>must have thought I was pretty cute, because we went on to become lovers.
>(Interviews by James McNair)
um, wow in a minor way. Hasn't it been, like, 10 years of saying, "no, we
never went, out, I think he's homely??" This scans funny since she mentions
they went out and Michael doesn't say word one.
interesting, not incredibly surprising.
-k
my mom got her black belt in karate! Go, mom!
jimmy bryant
I do.
jimmy
thin_king
there was no girl as bold as you
Font of All Important Info
bryant) felt compelled by mysterious forces to say:
>Don't you think Natalie and Michael ought to have a baby?
only if they both want to...and apparently, Michael doesn't (not for
Natalie's lack of trying, though)....
--dez
....a pistol-hot cup of Dez...
"Chef of chicanery, your buns are mine!"
--the Tick
dream wanderer
<telef...@email.nospamsn.com> wrote:
>N
>
>
>>NATALIE MERCHANT.
>>I also thought Michael was really sexy
>>and I had a crush on him. I drove 500 miles to meet him on my day off. In
>my
>>head it was supposed to be this epic summit, but it was horrible and I
>>decided I hated him.
>
>>I felt that Michael had began to understand why I’d sought him out, and he
>>must have thought I was pretty cute, because we went on to become lovers.
>
Forgive me for being skeptical...but that just does not sound like
Natalie Merchant....she.rarely talks about personel things in
interviews....and to come out with something this personel is highly
unusual......but maybe one day she hit the sauce and lost her
inhibitions....wonder if she was just playing with the reporter the
way Michael sometime does????????
AMYSA
>Natalie Merchant....
that's what i was thinking...it seemed a little too detailed...
amy
"I like having low self-esteem. It makes me feel special."--jane lane
AMYSA
>REM, which formed in Athens, Georgia, in 1980.
so, michael was what...14 or 15 when rem got together?
:-)amy
Vedran Dracic
kfj wrote in message ...
>
>um, wow in a minor way. Hasn't it been, like, 10 years of saying, "no, we
>never went, out, I think he's homely??" This scans funny since she mentions
>they went out and Michael doesn't say word one.
>interesting, not incredibly surprising.
That comes from the Sunday magazine, which means: "Who could only know what
the two REALLY said?". But, let's say it's all correct. Michael seemed to be
very diplomatic on this one, and Natalie very open. What's happening with
her? She never used to talk like that.
Although I was never quite sure about how far their relationship went, I
always thought that love was the word that made sense when we talked about
it. You know, it would be hard to think, for example, that nothing ever
happened between Annie Lennox and Dave Stuart.
Vedran Dracic
jimmy bryant wrote in message <3646904c...@news.mindspring.com>...
>Don't you think Natalie and Michael ought to have a baby?
No.
Vedran Dracic
AMYSA wrote in message <19981109082306...@ng-fr1.aol.com>...
>>Michael Stipe, 33, is the lead singer with multi-million-selling rock band
>>REM, which formed in Athens, Georgia, in 1980.
>
What only proves that this article could be nothing but a pure
sensationalism based on everything but the facts - in typical English style!
Sean Ryder (ex-Happy Mondays - I never liked that band) said once about that
kind of magazines something like this: "They only write about who fucks with
who, who don't fuck with who or who should fuck with who". This article
doesn't seem to go far from this description.
Font of All Important Info
felt compelled by mysterious forces to say:
>To paraphrase someone who posted elsewhere on Usenet:
>
>"If those two reproduced, that child would be so all-fired Sensitive it
>would look like the big-eyed kids in those paintings they sell at the
>mall."
BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA!!
--dez, does that also mean the kid would be covered in flocked velvet?
Scott Allison
> >>REM, which formed in Athens, Georgia, in 1980.
> >
>
> What only proves that this article could be nothing but a pure
> sensationalism based on everything but the facts - in typical English style!
Don't be fooled by them getting his age wrong, that's easily done and
newspapers do it all the time. Also if you write 38, it can easily look
like 33.
Scott
Carla Miriam Levy
>>>>> "AMYSA" == AMYSA <am...@aol.com> writes:
>> Forgive me for being skeptical...but that just does not sound
>> like Natalie Merchant....
AMYSA> that's what i was thinking...it seemed a little too
AMYSA> detailed...
She's been talking about personal things a lot more lately, in
interviews and in her music. She's.... changed.
carla
--
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Carla M. Levy ~ http://hussle.harvard.edu/~clevy ~ Harvard Physics
smo...@ihateads.com
> AMYSA wrote in message <19981109082306...@ng-fr1.aol.com>...
> >>Michael Stipe, 33, is the lead singer with multi-million-selling rock band
> >>REM, which formed in Athens, Georgia, in 1980.
> >
> >so, michael was what...14 or 15 when rem got together?
>
> What only proves that this article could be nothing but a pure
> sensationalism based on everything but the facts - in typical English style!
> Sean Ryder (ex-Happy Mondays - I never liked that band) said once about that
> kind of magazines something like this: "They only write about who fucks with
> who, who don't fuck with who or who should fuck with who". This article
> doesn't seem to go far from this description.
I agree with the criticisms, but it was still fun to see it. I want to
thank you Neil for going to all the time and trouble of posting it.
Rebecca, who wonders if it's true that crews on TV shows she's been on are
ordered not to make eye contact or speak to Natalie?
--
To email me, delete "ihatespam.com" and substitute "ix.netcom.com" in the address above.
James Russell
Anyone know where I can get more info about their relationship, I've
always been intrigued by it.
(eg that bit about Natalie wanting a baby?!?)
Thanks,
James
Vedran Dracic
Carla Miriam Levy wrote in message ...
>
>She's been talking about personal things a lot more lately, in
>interviews and in her music. She's.... changed.
Oh really? What else she's been talking about lately?
Did she talk about unhappy childhood? Or about her other "love connections"?
Did she maybe pose naked when she was young?
Sorry Carla, but somehow I don't believe you! How has she changed?
dream wanderer
wrote:
I've seen a recent interview with her and she has changed in the sense
that she seems more relaxed and smiles a lot more...but the content of
the interview wasn't all that personal...I have heard her talk about
how in high school she wasn't that popular etc....and how the maniacs
got started but I still think she is basically a private person with a
capital P.
Does anyone think Michael has changed? He says they have put cynicism
and irony behind them and he seems more relaxed in interviews...smiles
a lot more...he seems more animated in the peformances I have
seen...he seems almost....dare I say ..happy?
Vedran Dracic
Scott Allison wrote in message <364771FD...@wirefree.com>...
>
>Don't be fooled by them getting his age wrong, that's easily done and
>newspapers do it all the time. Also if you write 38, it can easily look
>like 33.
The age is not the point, but the way Natalie Merchant "said" those things.
If you ask me, I believe that Michael and Natalie were in love at one point
(you know, the close friendship of that kind can always grow into love), but
the article shouldn't be taken as a factor that proves anything.
Vedran Dracic
smo...@ihateads.com wrote in message ...
>thank you Neil for going to all the time and trouble of posting it.
It was fun to read, I agree. But it shouldn't be taken too seriously.
Carla Miriam Levy
>>>>> "Vedran" == Vedran Dracic <vdr...@foi.hr> writes:
Vedran> Carla Miriam Levy wrote in message ...
>> She's been talking about personal things a lot more lately, in
>> interviews and in her music. She's.... changed.
Vedran> Oh really? What else she's been talking about lately? Did
Vedran> she talk about unhappy childhood? Or about her other "love
Vedran> connections"? Did she maybe pose naked when she was
Vedran> young? Sorry Carla, but somehow I don't believe you! How
Vedran> has she changed?
I'm charmed that you don't believe me.
The final comment of my post was somewhat tongue in cheek. But I do
find the quality of her interviews somewhat different of late. She's
been involved with Yanovitz for over 6 years, and has only started
talking about it recently. Whatever. I never claimed any special
knowledge, just an impression that I think a few others have shared.
Furrfu.
MischaRP
>It was fun to read, I agree. But it shouldn't be taken too seriously.
>
to be really honest, i don't see why it shouldn't be taken seriously. so they
got michael's age wrong. but the independent is a well-respected and generally
high-brow paper that does not get by on sensationalism. they have this *how we
met* feature every sunday, which are always the people in question talking
about the other person that they met and how they did so. as there would be no
reason for natalie to lie, and no reason for the paper to fabricate her
statement, there's no reason to doubt that anything natalie said isn't the
truth.
Mischa.
dream wanderer
You may be right..we're just saying that if this is legitimate
Natalie has done a real about face concerning what she talks about in
interviews. It would be like Michael suddenly talking about all the
lovers he has had in the past five years or so or Peter going into
detail about why his first marriage went bad..her talking about
personal things just wasn't done...she was extremely private.
I do have a small theory but I have no way to prove it...I suspect
some American entertainers will say things in the European press that
they won't say here...I may be wrong ...but I suspect it.
Sharon
kfj
>You may be right..we're just saying that if this is legitimate
>Natalie has done a real about face concerning what she talks about in
>interviews. It would be like Michael suddenly talking about all the
>lovers he has had in the past five years or so or Peter going into
>detail about why his first marriage went bad..her talking about
>personal things just wasn't done...she was extremely private.
>I do have a small theory but I have no way to prove it...I suspect
>some American entertainers will say things in the European press that
>they won't say here...I may be wrong ...but I suspect it.
>
> Sharon
>
I recall reading something where Peter or Bill were saying the European
press asks more questions about a person's personal life, more
psycho-analysis type stuff. Certainly, I've read more personal type info in
Euro mags than in the U.S. I always tend to think of the Euro press as less
sychophantic.
I also found this an abrupt about face on Natalie's part - this sounds
horribly disrespectful, but my first thought was "record sales down,
natalie?"
I've always liked that I have no idea what happened in Peter's marriage or
who Michael is sleeping with. Not to say i'm not interested, but I totally
respect the fact that they prefer to keep it private, and they regard all
that as irrelevant.
-k
and i don't care who mike's sleeping with either! (sigh. since it's not me.
:( )
MischaRP
>You may be right..we're just saying that if this is legitimate
>Natalie has done a real about face concerning what she talks about in
>interviews. It would be like Michael suddenly talking about all the
>lovers he has had in the past five years or so or Peter going into
>detail about why his first marriage went bad..her talking about
>personal things just wasn't done...she was extremely private.
>I do have a small theory but I have no way to prove it...I suspect
>some American entertainers will say things in the European press that
>they won't say here...I may be wrong ...but I suspect it.
>
> Sharon
sure, i agree - i was quite taken aback at the bluntness of her statement too.
i just feel that it's likely everything they printed was exactly what was said.
Mischa
James Russell
I GOT SOMETHING SIGNED BY MICHAEL STIPE
Sorry, just had to share,
Michael has changed
James
MyRaye
>I've always liked that I have no idea what happened in Peter's marriage or
>who Michael is sleeping with. Not to say i'm not interested, but I totally
>respect the fact that they prefer to keep it private, and they regard all
>that as irrelevant.
>-k
>and i don't care who mike's sleeping with either! (sigh. since it's not me.
>:( )
Ok, I can understand that! You're thing is with Mike and I can appreciate that
but I'm more concerned with who is sleeping with Bill? I absolutely adore this
man and why? I don't know...maybe the eyebrows or unibrow...maybe the
teddybear image! Whatever! I'm waiting until December to see on VH1 what
he'll say on Behind The Music. I heard they interviewed him and I'm sure he's
happy, probably remarried and about to be a father. I may not watch it now!
Of course I will! But I still want to know why his marriage broke up!
Luisa Gidoni
<jam...@ihug.co.nz> writes
Me too! I did't see him, but he signed the playlist of a private
recording when asked by my boyfriend. It reads:
Luisa
See you soon
Best
Michael Stipe
I think in the rush he forgot to write best WHAT! What about the *see
you soon* anyway? Is he implying that they are going to play live soon?
*** I found a way to make you smile ***
Luisa Gidoni
>who Michael is sleeping with. Not to say i'm not interested, but I totally
>respect the fact that they prefer to keep it private, and they regard all
>that as irrelevant.
>-k
>and i don't care who mike's sleeping with either! (sigh. since it's not me.
>:( )
Could not agree more.
Ron Henry
>Me too! I did't see him, but he signed the playlist of a private
>recording when asked by my boyfriend. It reads:
>
>Luisa
>See you soon
>Best
>Michael Stipe
>
>I think in the rush he forgot to write best WHAT! What about the *see
>you soon* anyway? Is he implying that they are going to play live soon?
Luisa, just FYI, in the US folks often abbreviate "Best wishes" as simply
"Best" when signing a note.
Ron
Ron Henry
rg...@cornell.edu / evisc...@geocities.com
Read the rec.music.rem FAQ --
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/8789/remfaq.htm
HC10000
really be what she said. Or record sales are down so she's just after
publicity. Yikes!
Odd as this might sound, REM fans (or many of them) seem almost jealous &
resentful of Natalie - of her relationship with Michael, I guess.
In any event, I don't think what Natalie said in that article is quite such a
radical departure. Regarding Michael, she has gone from saying they were just
friends, to admitting they dated for a while, to now acknowledging that they
were lovers.
Vedran Dracic" <vdr...@foi.hr> writes:
<<Did she talk about unhappy childhood? Or about her other "love connections"?
Did she maybe pose naked when she was young?>>
The answer to all 3 questions is yes!
She has talked about her childhood - although it doesn't sound particularly
unhappy.
And yes, she did pose nude when she was young. She was a nude model for art
classes when she was in college to make extra money. She's talked about that
recently as well.
And she also recently acknowledged that she's been involved with her boyfriend,
Peter Yanowitz, for the past 6 years.
So it's true that she has opened up in interviews some over the last several
years.
T.
----------------------------------
visit the @Natalie web site:
http://www.gdrmusic.com/atnatalie/
Vedran Dracic
HC10000 wrote in message <19981112011132...@ng139.aol.com>...
>
>She has talked about her childhood - although it doesn't sound particularly
>unhappy.
Then the answer is "no".
>So it's true that she has opened up in interviews some over the last
several
>years.
Ok, thanks for the informations. Now I think we had enough of Natalie in
rec.music.rem for this year.
Does anybody know if Michael Stipe had anything serious with Courtney Love?
And did she have anything serious with Brad Pitt?
Did Michael Stipe had anything with Brad Pitt? :)))
dream wanderer
>
>Does anybody know if Michael Stipe had anything serious with Courtney Love?
a fag'....but she said it as a joke and with great affection.
dream wanderer
>Geez, why are REM fans so catty when it comes to Natalie? Oh, that can't
>really be what she said. Or record sales are down so she's just after
>publicity. Yikes!
>
>Odd as this might sound, REM fans (or many of them) seem almost jealous &
>resentful of Natalie - of her relationship with Michael, I guess.
>
Believe it or not many of us don't care what went on with Michael and
Natalie over 10 years ago...we are just commenting on how Natalie has
changed if the article is true....it's the delivery...not the content.
Loverem1
>Nah -- I just find her kind of self-righteous and annoying.
>Oh, COME on! Not everyone who likes a band is in love with the lead
>singer, you know
I agree with these words completely!!! I can't stand her because of her
attitude and her singing ability or lack thereof. She is an annoyance on the
radio!
kfj
>complain about her.
>
>> Odd as this might sound, REM fans (or many of them) seem almost jealous &
>> resentful of Natalie
>
>acknowledge that Stipe can be both of those things as well, but at least
>there are two other people in R.E.M. to balance things out. I enjoyed
>some of Merchant's work with the Maniacs (in fact, "In My Tribe" is one
>of my all-time favorite albums), but without the buffer a band provides,
>I find both her music and her personality insufferable.
thanks, i wanted to say that.
>> - of her relationship with Michael, I guess.
>
>Oh, COME on! Not everyone who likes a band is in love with the lead
>singer, you know. I don't know any of the members of R.E.M. from Adam,
>and I'm certainly not going to be jealous of their lovers. Hell, I
>wouldn't even care if Merchant had slept with Mike Mills, whom I find
>*far* more attractive than Stipe. (Stipe never did that much for me, and
>does nothing at all now that he's bald.)
oh, and, by the way, a lot of people on this newsgroup may find members of
the band attractive and realize that they will never meet them and never
have a relationship with them. I like to think of it as a "clue," which is
to say, many of us have one. I agree with Laura, Mills is a cutie but I have
no illusions that I would ever meet him (beyond getting an autograph) and
whatever statements of lust I jokingly make, I don't feel anything one way
or the other towards the band's dates or ex-dates. I made the comment about
the record sales and I acknowledge it was bitchy - but Natalie did make
kinda turn around on her public statements and it was surprising. Plus, as
noted above, she annoys me lately.
>BTW -- is it a sign of the times that when I see the name "Natalie" in a
>musical context, without a last name attached, my first thought is of
>Natalie Imbruglia?
>
>Laura Del Col
Turn off your radio! I think Natalie Cole, how f*cked is that?
-k
AMYSA
>singer, you know. I don't know any of the members of R.E.M. from Adam,
>and I'm certainly not going to be jealous of their lovers.
exactly...who cares if natalie and michael had a thing. i love the 10,000
maniacs and i actually like some of natalie's solo stuff, but i could give or
take her in a heartbeat. she is NOT someone that i'd ever want to meet and
she's certainly not someone that i would want to be forced to spend any time
with. i watch interviews with her out of morbid curiosity. honestly, she has
been more delightful in interviews as of late...so, it's possible that she has
changed a bit from her earlier persona. then again...we all should know by now
that it is the "tv natalie" that we see anyway. remember her explaining her
accent? remember her denying that she HAD an accent?
amy
"I like having low self-esteem. It makes me feel special."--jane lane
Vedran Dracic
Laura Del Col wrote in message <9EE22.210$ow5....@nntp1.nac.net>...
>hc1...@aol.com (HC10000) writes:
>
>> - of her relationship with Michael, I guess.
>
>singer, you know.
That's right. We're all in love with the music, not with the members.
>I don't know any of the members of R.E.M. from Adam,
>and I'm certainly not going to be jealous of their lovers. Hell, I
>wouldn't even care if Merchant had slept with Mike Mills, whom I find
>*far* more attractive than Stipe.
Yes, I agree. Now when we know that she slept with Stipe, we should find
about Mike, then Bill and finally Peter. It could be, you know, the guys
were young, she was young, there were parties all the time. :-)))
> (Stipe never did that much for me, and
>does nothing at all now that he's bald.)
And what do you think of the other 3 guys?
>> And yes, she did pose nude when she was young.
>
>I *didn't* need that picture in my head.
Who did? :-)
>BTW -- is it a sign of the times that when I see the name "Natalie" in a
>musical context, without a last name attached, my first thought is of
>Natalie Imbruglia?
This is the only part where I don't agree. I still think that Merchant is
musically superior to Imbruglia. In non-musical context, I agree.
Imbruglia's younger and more attractive. But that's for some other thread.
Art1Vulcan
natalie merchant and her whole demure, holier-than-thou-
hippy-chick-chic-thing is soooooo 80's and i think
people found her un-genuine (although, i would be willing
to admit, that is not a word ) and the preachy stuff
gets old after a while..........
M "i'm really gonna get it now" Cole, san francsico
Luisa Gidoni
<rg...@cornell.edu> writes
Cheers Ron!
Even my British friends didn't seem to have any idea of the reason
behing the *missing* word...
Luisa
P.S. JMS was great during during the European MTV Music Awards tonight -
the only hint of political consciousness in a very shallow world. Well
done R.E.M.!
smo...@ihateads.com
art1v...@aol.com (Art1Vulcan) wrote:
I agree that she seems pretentious and overly precious. (Although I agree
that she's way more talented than Natalie Imbruglia.) I totally agree with
the posts by KFJ and Laura Del Col regarding her work.
Further, I hate her voice singing with Stipe's voice. I can't stand their
duets! I love his voice with Kirsten Hirsh and Syd Straw and many other
women (and men especially Mike Mills). But listening to her sing with
R.E.M. (or him with 10,000 Maniacs) is like nails on a chalkboard to me. I
don't think their voices work together at all.
Rebecca
--
To email me, delete "ihatespam.com" and substitute "ix.netcom.com" in the address above.
kfj
>art1v...@aol.com (Art1Vulcan) wrote:
>
>> oh no, im gonna be bitchy now......
>>
>> natalie merchant and her whole demure, holier-than-thou-
>> hippy-chick-chic-thing is soooooo 80's and i think
>> people found her un-genuine (although, i would be willing
>> to admit, that is not a word ) and the preachy stuff
>> gets old after a while..........
>>
>> M "i'm really gonna get it now" Cole, san francsico
>
>I agree that she seems pretentious and overly precious. (Although I agree
>that she's way more talented than Natalie Imbruglia.) I totally agree with
>the posts by KFJ and Laura Del Col regarding her work.
i have a thing about caps - i like kfj (which is JFK backwards - and I've
had a asst. named Lincoln ;) - just kidding. tho i do plan to stay away
from Dallas.)
>Further, I hate her voice singing with Stipe's voice. I can't stand their
>duets! I love his voice with Kirsten Hirsh and Syd Straw and many other
>women (and men especially Mike Mills). But listening to her sing with
>R.E.M. (or him with 10,000 Maniacs) is like nails on a chalkboard to me. I
>don't think their voices work together at all.
>
>Rebecca
Wellll, I really like the maniacs albums and I love photograph so I'm gonna
have to disagree here. I think Michael has such a distinctive, emotive
voice - you can pick him out anywhere - as does Natalie, tho not nearly as
moving generally. The campfire song was one of my favorites when I first got
that album, believe it or not. But Natalie does not write political songs as
well as Michael - only about half of blind man's zoo really hits the mark.
Her solo stuff is where I got off the boat - her songs just aren't as good
as the ones with the maniacs and she's become more mannered and pretentious
at the same time she's going off in interviews about how she's loosened up.
Plus, i found it odd that when she initially left the maniacs she said it
wasn't to pursue solo projects, but to maybe to go to college or just time
to herself. Then, boom, she's got a solo album out. I could be smoking crack
and holding this against her when I'm off in my facts so feel free to
correct me. But I hate when the lead singer becomes the foxus of a band and
then the singer buys into it. (which i don't think jms has, BTW!)
-k
ooh! i hate disagreeing with Rebecca!
Luthor66
I remember back in 87 we all had big crushes on Natalie, and I'm really
intrigued that there's a nude photo! I have some friends who would pay good
money to have that destroyed so she doesn't fall off the pedestal for them.
I never found her preachiness obnoxious, just naive. Which I originally found
pretty charming, but have also gotten tired of. However, I still think "Our
Time in Eden" is just amazing, and am glad we have people who care as much as
Nat does in this world.
"Sink to my rung, hear my tongue" (L&HTLI, I think!)
dream wanderer
If Natalie Merchant didn't make another record...or sing another song
I don't think I would notice...
HC10000
>
>Hey, at least we don't barge into the Natalie Merchant newsgroup to
>complain about her.
Well next time I'll knock.
Wasn't complaining just making an observation after reading 28 reponses to that
Independent article, many of which seemed really bitchy and snotty with regards
to Natalie. And since the responses focused on the relationship between
Natalie & Michael, (not her music or attitude or TV persona or whatever it is
about her that annoys some of you), it just struck me as odd - as if folks were
affronted at the very idea of Natalie & Michael being together. Guess I just
read too much into the posts.
And as great fan of Natalie's & 10,000 Maniacs (including my web address as a
form of disclosure) I thought I had something to add regarding the question of
how out of character Natalie's comments supposedly were. Plus someone asked
specific questions that no one else had answered.
As for being biased, well who isn't? Do you think you're response to that
article was not colored by your opinions of Natalie & Michael?
BTW, re-reading the article it seems rather choppily edited. I mean it is
presented as if each one said those things straight through from beginning to
end. But it was probably edited together from a series of different
statements. And who knows what specific questions they were responding to or
if they were even asked the same questions.
AMYSA
>Natalie & Michael, (not her music or attitude or TV persona or whatever it is
>about her that annoys some of you), it just struck me as odd - as if folks
>were
>affronted at the very idea of Natalie & Michael being together.
the responses were about that because the article was about that. if the
article had been about how michael and natalie are avid hangliders then (if
anyone were truly intersted in that) then the responses would probably heavily
feature comments about hangliding.
Luthor66
Michael's. I think she has one of the best voices (I don't mean best range or
strongest!) in music. It just has such a great sound.
There's no accounting for taste!
-Bob (the non-aesthetician!)
Loverem1
meet mike and I did on August 30th at a charity event! Believe me, he was
completely worth the trip I made to get there!!!
dream wanderer
>. And since the responses focused on the relationship between
>>Natalie & Michael, (not her music or attitude or TV persona or whatever it is
>>about her that annoys some of you), it just struck me as odd - as if folks
>>were
>>affronted at the very idea of Natalie & Michael being together.
>
>the responses were about that because the article was about that. if the
>article had been about how michael and natalie are avid hangliders then (if
>anyone were truly intersted in that) then the responses would probably heavily
>feature comments about hangliding.
>
>amy
Especially if Natalie had spent the last ten years telling us that she
really didn't care for hang gliding..that she just liked to watch or
if she refused to answer any questions about hang gliding in
interviews..and then she suddenly comes out with the fact that she has
actually been hangliding all along!
And if we don't like the idea of Natalie and Michael together ..so
what? The idea of Michael and Courtney together doesn' bother me...or
Michael and Jane Pratt..or Michael and Helena Christianson (remember
the stink that one caused!) and I think he and Stephen Dorf really
looked cute together...I guess it just means basically that we don't
like Natalie for whatever reason....I never really thought about it
all that much and probably won't again as soon as this thread ends...
donna salsbury
>> remember her explaining her accent? remember her denying that she HAD
an accent?
amy
"I like having low self-esteem. It makes me feel special."--jane lane<<
I would have LOVED to have seen this. I always thought that accent was
one of her more annoying affectations. Do you at all recall what she
had to say about said accent? I love *In My Tribe* but, was never
really able to get into the Maniacs (or Natalie solo) partly because I
found her manner of speaking to be affected (there's that word again)
and she always seemed to be so self-righteous and condescending.
ds
AMYSA
>one of her more annoying affectations. Do you at all recall what she
>had to say about said accent? I love *In My Tribe* but, was never
>really able to get into the Maniacs (or Natalie solo) partly because I
>found her manner of speaking to be affected (there's that word again)
>and she always seemed to be so self-righteous and condescending.
>
i cannot for the life of me remember where i read the conflicting comments by
her. i'll try to remember, but i'm sure someone on here read the same thing
(hell...i could have even read it here...who knows...)
smo...@ihateads.com
<telef...@email.nospamsn.com> wrote:
> ooh! i hate disagreeing with Rebecca!
That's fine, especially when done so intelligently. (And politely.) And
I'm sorry about the caps, kfj - I didn't notice you never capitalize them.
SomaREM
>>singer, you know
Yeah isn't that the truth? If you love a band just cause you have a crush on
its members than you may as well listen to the Backstreet Boys (who I admit I
find attractive but I would never ever be their fan cause I think their music
sucks)
Katie
Visit 'Walk Unafraid
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Plaza/5193/Default.htm
SomaREM
>R.E.M. (or him with 10,000 Maniacs) is like nails on a chalkboard to me. I
>don't think their voices work together at all.
Her voice is just too deep and throaty. I love listening to her music but I
never got into it as much as other female singers because I have too high of a
singing voice to sing along with her which is something I like to do when
listening to music, the type that can sing Celine Dion songs (which I don't but
I have the ability to do it).
SomaREM
>musically superior to Imbruglia. In non-musical context, I agree.
>Imbruglia's younger and more attractive. But that's for some other thread.
I find Natalie Imbruglia's music good. I actually think some of you are
judging her prematurely by saying she is less talented than Merchant. Maybe
that can wait until she has a few albums out.
Just a thought.......
Joey Odorisio
>and irony behind them and he seems more relaxed in interviews...smiles
>a lot more...he seems more animated in the peformances I have
>seen...he seems almost....dare I say ..happy?
In that wonderful Charlie Rose interview, Michael said he is a
happy person nowadays. And why shouldn`t he be?
- JOEY ODORISIO Joey.A....@widener.edu
http://pages.prodigy.com/RGJX08B/index.html
"I`m not scared...I`m outta here."-R.E.M.,Electrolite
Art1Vulcan
it may bring maturity........
damn i sound old.......
mc. sf
min...@my-dejanews.com
som...@aol.com (SomaREM) wrote:
> >This is the only part where I don't agree. I still think that Merchant is
> >musically superior to Imbruglia. In non-musical context, I agree.
> >Imbruglia's younger and more attractive. But that's for some other thread.
>
> I find Natalie Imbruglia's music good. I actually think some of you are
> judging her prematurely by saying she is less talented than Merchant. Maybe
> that can wait until she has a few albums out.
> Just a thought.......
I think you can tell from someone's first album at least how much potential
someone has, and in Imbrulia's I just don't see it. I think if there's anyone
who I'd compare to Natalie Merchant, it'd be Jewel Kilchner.
Mindel
--
"I've got three sisters - all girls." -Natalie Imbruglia on The Tonight Show
(and no, she wasn't trying to be funny)
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Vedran Dracic
Luisa Gidoni wrote in message ...
>>I've always liked that I have no idea what happened in Peter's marriage or
>>who Michael is sleeping with. Not to say i'm not interested, but I totally
>>respect the fact that they prefer to keep it private, and they regard all
>>that as irrelevant.
>>-k
>>and i don't care who mike's sleeping with either! (sigh. since it's not
me.
>>:( )
>Could not agree more.
Why? Did you dream that you slept with him? Or anybody?