Announcing the first headliner for ProgDay 2001 ... THE FLOWER KINGS!
ProgDay
bands in progressive rock today. Led by guitarist and visionary Roine
Stolt, the Flower Kings play a 70s-influenced symphonic rock replete with
strong melodies, extended instrumentals and the same kind of utopian
vision that shaped many of the original progressive rock bands. They have
released several albums in the last few years, including "Retropolis",
"Back in the World of Adventures" and "Stardust We Are". Many of those
who saw them at ProgFest or ProgDay 1998 came away with the feeling that
the future of progressive rock was in good hands. It has been three long
years since The Flower Kings have graced North America. With the release
of "Space Revolver" in 2000 the band continues to expand its musical
palette, but not at the sacrifice of memorable melodies and
arrangements. This is one band that is riding a seemingly endless wave of
creativity and talent. ProgDay is proud to return them to the pastoral
fields of Storybook Farm for a headlining performance!
ProgDay 2001 will take place on the Labor Day weekend, September
1 & 2, 2001. Located at beautiful Storybook Farm in Chapel Hill, North
Carolina, ProgDay is the longest running North American progressive rock
festival, dating back to 1995. Its unique outdoor environment has inspired
countless stellar performances from the likes of Discipline, Finisterre
and Thinking Plague. This, coupled with its festive atmosphere, has made
it a long-time favorite of festival-goers.
Tickets for ProgDay 2001 will go on sale May 1st. For more
information on tickets, bands, or the festival in general, join our
official e-newsletter by going to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProgDayNews
... or check out our web-site at http://www.progday.com.
--
ProgDay 2001
Brian Worthing
ProgDay <pro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9cedtn$raf$1...@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca...
Mauro Faraone Moroni
To Germinale, Odessa and Standarte (after having fixed the $$ for
their travel costs already) "sorry but this year we have no $$ and it
will be a US bands only festival".
Chapeau guys!
--
Mauro Pharaos Moroni "Magister Progressivii"
http://www.mellowrecords.com
mor...@pangea.it
in...@mellowrecords.com
Ron
**thinking out loud ..."the west coast need a fest again..." ... **
*************************************
*************************************
P r o g N a u t . c o m
a Progressive & Classic Rock Fan Page
located @ www.ProgNaut.com
(Site was last updated on 04/27/01)
*Legion* (Brendon Rapp)
-----
*Legion* - NP: Tipographica - God Says I Can't Dance
"Fire in the hole! Fire in the hole!" -- Superfly
-----
Brian Worthing
in the States (even more so than Flower Kings), Maybe the Flower Kings have
become citizens of the US all of a sudden?!? :-) The only thing I can think
of is that the Flower Kings might be doing a mini-tour of the US around the
time of Progday, and that might have eased the travel costs of the
organizers of Progday. It's still unfortunate though....
Mauro Faraone Moroni <mor...@pangea.it> wrote in message
news:3aead3f0...@news.cis.dfn.de...
*Legion* (Brendon Rapp)
>their travel costs already) "sorry but this year we have no $$ and it
>will be a US bands only festival".
Flower Kings are Swedish.
Happy to help.
-- *L*
mystic
Sounds like good business sense to me. If I was to undertake a tour of any
country I would try and book dates around major musical events such as Progday
to help defray touring costs.
Mystic
Mauro Faraone Moroni
<leg...@vgpalace.com> wrote:
>Flower Kings are Swedish.
And Spock's Beard are American.
And Landmarq English.
Glad to have helped.
Mauro Faraone Moroni
Moroni) wrote:
>On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 22:36:24 -0700, "*Legion* (Brendon Rapp)"
><leg...@vgpalace.com> wrote:
>
>>Flower Kings are Swedish.
>
>And Spock's Beard are American.
>And Landmarq English.
Sorry I forgot:
Zartong are Armenian.
Wara are Bolivian.
Canada is burning.
Mindgrind
pick Flower Kings to headline?!?! Looks like I'll be leaving early once
again.
*Legion* (Brendon Rapp)
>pick Flower Kings to headline?!?! Looks like I'll be leaving early once
>again.
They have to sell tickets. Unless you want to volunteer to buy 100
tickets yourself...
-- *L*
Iwan
sentence something like "In the interest of attracting more spectators
while also subsidizing better bands, yet less accessibles, we invite ...
bla bla bla"
TOIB
> With all the great and talented bands lined up so far for this event, they
> pick Flower Kings to headline?!?! Looks like I'll be leaving early once
> again.
Well, many of the Flower Kings fans are probably not going to be
dying with gratitude over the Muffins set either. We try to balance bands
which should have a universal appeal with bands that may have a more
specific appeal but will be a special treat for those who like that
specific type of music. There are a number of constituencies in the prog
community, and if we are going to make this festival healthy in the long
term we need to offer something to all of them. I don't think any
self-respecting RMPer could blink at a line-up that contains YETI, The
Muffins, Azigza, Hands ... but there are some fans who are not interested
in these bands for whatever reason, but will come for the Flower
Kings. It's like NF2000; I came for DFA and Thinking Plague, but plenty of
folks came for Transatlantic.
I saw the Flower Kings live in Quebec City in 1998. I am not the
world's #1 Flower Kings fan, but it was a fairly solid set, with some
really good moments.
Regards,
--
Sean McFee
Mike Prete *www.progweed.net*
news:3AEC65...@tsi.enst.fr...
I know that there are plenty of people (including myself) that could live
without seeing TFK, but there are just as many fans of the band that would
like to see the show. We of course hope to attract more people with every
band we announce, and have a sense of diversity. TFK weren't chosen just to
sell tickets.
NP: Frank Zappa - Burnt Weenie Sandwich
--
Mike Prete - Mi...@progweed.net
The Giant Progweed - Progressive Rock Reviews
www.progweed.net
"I think art school is a real racket, especially in this country. You run
into a couple of good teachers and some interesting students but for the
amount of money you spend, it's not worth it" - David Byrne
Gamantyo Hendrantoro
>Then it should be emphasized in the announcement introducing the
>band a sentence something like "In the interest of attracting more
>spectators while also subsidizing better bands, yet less
>accessibles, we invite ... bla bla bla"
For what purpose?
Peter
> Then it should be emphasized in the announcement introducing the band a
> sentence something like "In the interest of attracting more spectators
> while also subsidizing better bands, yet less accessibles, we invite ...
> bla bla bla"
Then I suppose we should add a band that we can hype like this: "In order to
placate those RMPers who have nothing better to do than criticize a festival's
line-up, we are proud to present a PLASTERED ZEPHYR; a band that is so complex
and completely lacking in any melodic intent as to alienate the audience and
drive people from the venue; their debut CD appeals to such a select group of
listener that only 3 copies have been sold worldwide -- truly the diversity our
festival was sorely lacking!" Would that make you happy??? Yeah, I didn't think
so.
Peter
TOIB
>> They have to sell tickets. Unless you want to volunteer to buy 100
>> tickets yourself...
>>
> Then it should be emphasized in the announcement introducing the band a
> sentence something like "In the interest of attracting more spectators
> while also subsidizing better bands, yet less accessibles, we invite ...
> bla bla bla"
You know, maybe I shouldn't say this because it talks about inner
work processes, but I would like to respond to this. We *agonized* over
band selection at the committee level. We had a *lot* of very good bands
to consider; in fact, we found ourselves in the unfortunate situation of
having many bands we very much like and respect who did not get booked for
this year's event.
*Every* band that was selected was done so with a view to its
draw. Every single one. I have been around this scene long enough to know
that there are people who will make the trip for Azigza and YETI who would
not make the trip for eight neo/accessible symph bands. Polydactyl was a
crowd favorite at the pre-show last year and has an inaugural CD coming
out, as well as a strong local following. I obviously don't have to go
into the draw of the Flower Kings, who have been internationally renowned
in prog circles for years. However, *every* band, all eight, is going to
"carry some load" when it comes to draw. The headliners, of course, are
expected to draw more people, but that's the only distinction. Last year
for NEARfest it was undercard bands like DFA and Thinking Plague that got
*my* attendance, not the headliners.
At the same time, *every* band we booked is very good at what they
do. If a band could sell a lot of tickets but would stink up the stage,
they would simply not get booked. This is easy to understand as a
long-term strategy; if people flock to your festival only to hate it, you
have had one successful festival and you're screwed for future years.
To make statements like this is not respectful to the bands who
are playing this event. I think those who have slagged the drawing power
of one band or the quality of another do them a disservice; we have booked
every band because we think they can draw to some extent, and because they
will put on a show that will keep people wanting to support the festival
in future years.
Now if you don't *like* a particular band's style, that's fine and
you aren't expected to be ecstatic about seeing them live. At the same
time, the fact that a few people in a newsgroup or mailing list don't like
a band doesn't make them not as good. I don't want ProgDay line-up
announcements to be used as excuses for ideological axe-grinding, from
pro-neo or pro-RIO factions. There is enough for everybody!
Regards,
--
Sean McFee
Ron
Ummm, didn't some people complain about the last ProgDay?
Peter & Co. you guys have a great line-up so far!!
NP: Opeth: Blackwater Park (aside from the cookie monster vocals, it's
not that bad and Mr. Wilson of PT guests on harmony vocals & plays
piano)
Adam Levin
Let's hope for the Progday organizers' sake that the Flower Kings can draw
more than the 20 people that came to see them in the DC/Baltimore area
back in 1997.
-Adam
----
T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t
http://www.darkaether.net/
http://mp3.com/darkaether/
Romerovm
>pick Flower Kings to headline?!?! Looks like I'll be leaving early once
>again.
Same here, I do not care for the Flower Kings at all.
Victor.
NP-nothing, watching South Park.
Paul Arzooman
>Then I suppose we should add a band that we can hype like this: "In order to
>placate those RMPers who have nothing better to do than criticize a festival's
>line-up, we are proud to present a PLASTERED ZEPHYR; a band that is so complex
>and completely lacking in any melodic intent as to alienate the audience and
>drive people from the venue; their debut CD appeals to such a select group of
>listener that only 3 copies have been sold worldwide -- truly the diversity our
>festival was sorely lacking!" Would that make you happy??? Yeah, I didn't
> think
>so.
>
>Peter
>
Bravo!
ScippyLisp
> Now if you don't *like* a particular band's style, that's fine and
>you aren't expected to be ecstatic about seeing them live. At the same
>time, the fact that a few people in a newsgroup or mailing list don't like
>a band doesn't make them not as good. I don't want ProgDay line-up
>announcements to be used as excuses for ideological axe-grinding, from
>pro-neo or pro-RIO factions. There is enough for everybody!
>
Quite an enlightened attitude, Sean!
Live and let live is generally my motto. I am glad this experience has enhanced
that credo for you.
You go!
s
e
a
n
Progluvr
I'm glad you like the other bands that we selected for ProgDay. It's too bad
you don't like TFK. The Flower Kings are just as talented...just a different
form of prog. I'm very interested in seeing them as well as the other bands
(most of whom I had never heard of before now, btw) as I'm open minded.
However, everyone has different tastes and this is a festival for 'progressive
music' all encompassing and not limited to just 1 or 2 forms. That's the
beauty of ProgDay and all the more reason to keep it going. They (as well as
NearFest) have turned me on to 'other' bands I probably never would have
considered listening to before I saw them perform live at these events....
Can't wait until Sept, 1&2!
Deb
"the Prog-Rock Diner"
Debbie B. "The Prog-Rock Diner"
www.fcac.org/webr
Iwan
respond to Brendon's post and don't have any slightest intention to
criticize your choice. I know you guys has a difficult task. If I live
in US I'll attend PD 2001.
iwan
Alan Mallery
Alan
amr
Given that there are very few folks like yourself who are willing to put
time, effort, and I-don't-know-how-many-$$$ into keeping ProgDay alive, I
think these kinds of sarcastic posts say more about the poster than they do
about anything else.
Perhaps those who have complaints about the band selection will be willing
to help put together ProgDay 2002?
Meanwhile, I've been sitting on the fence thus far about attending ProgDay,
but the selection of the Flower Kings will definitely put me in attendance
(my first prog festival).
Thank you for your efforts,
Andy
"TOIB" <smc...@chatSP.AMcarleton.ca> wrote in message
news:9ci8s6$cf4$1...@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca...
Progressive World
the Flower Kings have a higher profile in the prog community as a whole, which
translates into a bigger draw to the festival based on those percentages...but
open minded fans - which I would hope most, if not all, of you are - might just
discover that the entire lineup is worth hearing and supporting, so that next
year the "headliners" are, e.g. Yeti. Does that mean you have to stay for every
band? No, of course not, but don't slag the organizers because they want to
appeal to the broadest spectrum of the audience.
Or, the sarcastic comment I was going contribute was: well, at least they didn't
make Madonna or Britney Spears the headliner...*then* we'd have to question
motives.
In this case of course, it shows that the organizers recognize how varied the
potential audience is and wants to provide a little something for everyone.
So bravo ProgDay folks!
Steph
TOIB wrote:
--
Stephanie Sollow
Publisher/Editor/Webmaster Columnist
ProgressiveWorld.net Progression Magazine
http://www.progressiveworld.net http://progressionmagazine.com
mailto:sol...@progressiveworld.net
TOIB
> Given that there are very few folks like yourself who are willing to put
> time, effort, and I-don't-know-how-many-$$$ into keeping ProgDay alive,
One thing I want to mention... I'm just one of many folks who are
working on this, and although I post like a maniac sometimes I don't want
to steal props from my ProgDay homies :).
But thanks for your comments. If we can get this thing back on
track it will all be worth it.
Regards,
--
Sean McFee
James Chokey
smc...@chatSP.AMcarleton.ca wrote on 4/29/01 12:04 PM:
> Mindgrind awakens Beta 14 OK:
>> With all the great and talented bands lined up so far for this event, they
>> pick Flower Kings to headline?!?! Looks like I'll be leaving early once
>> again.
>
> Well, many of the Flower Kings fans are probably not going to be
> dying with gratitude over the Muffins set either. We try to balance bands
> which should have a universal appeal with bands that may have a more
> specific appeal but will be a special treat for those who like that
> specific type of music. There are a number of constituencies in the prog
> community, and if we are going to make this festival healthy in the long
> term we need to offer something to all of them.
I wasn't involved in ProgDay planning, and I normally hate to agree
with anything Sean says.... :-) But he's absolutely, completely,
and unambiguously right about this. You can't please all the prog fans
with every single band at any prog festival. Too many people have
too many different tastes-- it just can't be done. But what you can do
is to offer a variety of acts, so that all but the most narrow-
minded prog fans should be able to find at least 1-2 bands that they
*really* want to see. To me, this seems like just common sense and
thoughtful festival planning.
On a purely personal note, one of the things that *I* enjoy most
about prog festivals is having the chance to hear a number of bands
who play in a wide variety of prog styles-- including those styles
that I don't normally listen to. Variety is the spice of life, or
so the cliche goes... and when it comes to music festivals, I find that
to be very, very true.
-- Jim C.
Now Playing-- Azahar, _Azahar_
==========================================================================
| James A. Chokey jch...@mindspring.com |
| |
| http://www.mindspring.com/~jchokey/personal/ |
| |
| 'Do you think that the sciences would ever have arisen and become |
| great if there had not been magicians, alchemists, astrologers, |
| and wizards who thirsted and hungered after hidden, forbidden |
| powers?' |
| -- Nietzsche |
| |
==========================================================================
Germinale
> > To Germinale, Odessa and Standarte (after having fixed the $$ for
> > their travel costs already) "sorry but this year we have no $$ and it
> > will be a US bands only festival".
> > Chapeau guys!
> That REALLY sucks! I would have loved to have seen
> Geminale and Odessa here
> in the States (even more so than Flower Kings)
Thanks for the nice words, Brian.
Mauro told the truth.
I don't want to be rude to Peter Renfro, Sean and all the people who work
hard for the festival, but i regret the fact that we had an offer in january
23 & 30 (and we said *yes!*), than another in february 21, and we said again
*yes, it's not too much but it's ok*, then nobody wrote me for the next two
months!
I know for sure that Standarte had the same treatment, don't know for Odessa
& Armonite.
A key Sentence Sean (but the mail arrived me as *Peter Renfro*??) wrote to
me was: *Unfortunately even your very reasonable terms for playing were hard
to fit in to our budget.*
So, why were you asking if we accepted that amount of money???
One of the many misteries of prog.
Hope you'll enjoy the progday, hope some one else will call us in the next
years! ;-)
Bye guys, sorry for my english.
p.s.: our third album *Cielo & Terra* (Heaven & Earth, or Sky & Ground, in
italian are the same words!) is now out and available at
www.mellowrecords.com
--
On behalf of Germinale
Marco Masoni
marco...@hotmail.com
"Ma neanche una farfalla sa di volare
in boschi di alti alberi odorosi
o su ciminiere fumose. O forse sì?
Che differenza c'è ? La vita è la stessa.
La morte verrà. Che differenza c'è?"
(Germinale, 'Cielo & Terra')
TOIB
> I don't want to be rude to Peter Renfro, Sean and all the people who work
> hard for the festival, but i regret the fact that we had an offer in january
> 23 & 30 (and we said *yes!*), than another in february 21, and we said again
> *yes, it's not too much but it's ok*, then nobody wrote me for the next two
> months!
You were never extended an offer to play. We asked how much you
would *want* to play, but it was made explicitly clear to every band
contacted that this was simply discussion, and not an offer.
> Hope you'll enjoy the progday, hope some one else will call us in the next
> years! ;-)
If you have any further questions, or need something clarified,
feel free to contact us by e-mail.
Regards,
--
Sean McFee
Germinale
> You were never extended an offer to play. We asked how much you
> would *want* to play, but it was made explicitly clear to every band
> contacted that this was simply discussion, and not an offer.
No no no no no no!
You gave me (us) an offer!
Nobody asked us *how much do you want to play*, I only received e-mails
asking me if we woul like to come to progday 2001, and we answered yes!
These are the EXACT sencences Geoff Logsdon wrote me:
January 30:
*So it is unpleasant for me to tell you we can only
offer you $ (omissis), which I guess would have to be put toward
your travel expenses. I'm sorry to have to give you such a small offer but
we hope very much you will consider it. We would very much like for you to
come.*
February 21:
*I spoke again to the committee about Germinale and
they told me we could offer you $ (omissis) and hotels if
that is acceptable.*
I again answered *yes*, but nobody answered.
That's the story, that's simple, and I am not saying nothing else.
> If you have any further questions, or need something clarified,
> feel free to contact us by e-mail.
Thank you, maybe I'll do that, but it became a public affair!
--
For Germinale:
Marco Masoni.
marco...@hotmail.com
"La terra ormai è approssimazione,
tutto è enfatizzato, dalla terra si estrae
la luce vera, la sotterranea linfa.
La corrente sotto terra è vorticosa,
non si ferma e ci decapita
con quel filo di nylon che è la fretta
la produzione di velocità"
Mauro Faraone Moroni
> You were never extended an offer to play. We asked how much you
>would *want* to play, but it was made explicitly clear to every band
>contacted that this was simply discussion, and not an offer.
Sean, a small suggestion:
silence, silence and more silence.
It's the best thing ProgDay commitee can do.
We are neither idiots nor stupids and I could publish all the offers
that were given to Mellow and not Mellow bands.
So in the memory of the friendship with Peter and the other guys
please stop here.
Don't force me to start shouting with my usual class.
First and last advice.
Stevesly
Steve Sly
Stevesly
>Let's hope for the Progday organizers' sake that the Flower Kings can draw
>more than the 20 people that came to see them in the DC/Baltimore area
>back in 1997.<<
The fact remains that the largest Progday crowd in it's 7 year history was 1998
when The Flower Kings headlined the show.
Steve Sly
(NP - Savatage - Live In Japan)
Adam Levin
> Adam wrote:
>
> >Let's hope for the Progday organizers' sake that the Flower Kings can draw
> >more than the 20 people that came to see them in the DC/Baltimore area
> >back in 1997.<<
>
> The fact remains that the largest Progday crowd in it's 7 year history was 1998
> when The Flower Kings headlined the show.
The turnout numbers may be a fact, but implying that the spike was
specifically due to the inclusion of The Flower Kings is not.
I'll point you back to your own poll conducted in 1998 and you'll note
that The Flower Kings came in 5th place (out of 10) in the "Best
Performance" as well as the "Bands You Would Most Like to See Again"
votes. 5th out of 10 in both votes doesn't exactly scream overwhelming FK
fan support for that year's Progday lineup, does it?
Something that I find interesting to note is that Discipline - a band
without label support nor big glossy ads in Progression (so perhaps they
are not perceived as being as "popular"?) received twice as many votes in
both of those categories.
It's also worth noting that the highest that any member of the Flower
Kings placed in that years' polls was number 3 for Roine Stolt in the
guitar catagory behind Nicola Gardinale of A Piedi Nudi (who I know that
nearly 2 dozen folks from the Baltimore/DC area specifically went to
Progday to catch) and John Preston Bouda of Discipline.
The bottom line is that I think it would be wrong to assume that the
larger turnout in 1998 was due to the Flower Kings as you imply.
Jason E
closest I came was in 1987 when Pink Floyd (well, the pink floyd cover band
as it was known) came here. Oh - I did see Rick Wakeman play at a small pub
in 1984 too...
I would give my eye teeth to see any event like this - just to see some good
prog performed live would we great. You guys living in the northern
hemesphere don't know how LUCKY you are! :-)
Jason
Gamantyo Hendrantoro
>You guys living in
>the northern hemesphere don't know how LUCKY you are! :-)
Oh yes, summer is coming!
Adam Levin
explanation of 1998 boasting the largest attendance of any of the Progdays
past or future - NO COMPETITION. That was the only year in Progday's
history that there was no other US prog festival to compete for
fan attendance. Progscape was gone. Progfest didn't happen that year and
NEARFest was yet to come.
Fringe Cognoscenti
Moroni) wrote:
>On 1 May 2001 15:37:30 GMT, smc...@chatSP.AMcarleton.ca (TOIB) wrote:
>
>> You were never extended an offer to play. We asked how much you
>>would *want* to play, but it was made explicitly clear to every band
>>contacted that this was simply discussion, and not an offer.
>
>Sean, a small suggestion:
>silence, silence and more silence.
>It's the best thing ProgDay commitee can do.
>We are neither idiots nor stupids and I could publish all the offers
>that were given to Mellow and not Mellow bands.
>
>So in the memory of the friendship with Peter and the other guys
>please stop here.
>Don't force me to start shouting with my usual class.
>First and last advice.
C'mon Mauro,
Don't you love "He said, she said" banter?
All kidding aside, maybe it was better off if you hadn't brought it up
in the first place, therefore this chain of events would not have
occured.
That's my advice.
Stevesly
>The bottom line is that I think it would be wrong to assume that the
>larger turnout in 1998 was due to the Flower Kings as you imply.<<
Ok, I admit you make some very good points, and maybe I am incorrect in my
assesment of the reason for the audience spike in 1998. I guess the other side
of that coin is that The Flower Kings have consistantly finished in the top 10
(usually top 5) of just about every internet album poll I have seen in the past
several years (Dutch Progressive Rock Page, Music News Network, ProgAndOther,
ect..). Like it or not Roine Stolt's involvment with Transatlantic has, at
the very least, raised awareness of The Flower Kings in the more "maistream"
end of the prog community. Their e-mail list has also grown significantly over
the last few years. I guess I don't understand all the bitching about them.
We have Yeti, we have The Muffins, we have Agzigza, we have Polydactyl, why
can't we have a band that appeals to the more mainstream element of the prog
audience? Do they deserve to be a headliner? I think that they do, but I
guess it is all a matter of perspective.
Steve Sly
Steve
1) Have an extremely SMALL stylistic range of bands and hope to draw strongly
from this style's group of fans.
2) Have a wide variety of quality bands, knowing that you will make NO ONE
completely happy with your choices, but also knowing that there should be quite
a bit there for everyone.
Progday have chosen #2 and have done an fine job of it, imo.
I think that they have an excellent & varied lineup of bands for this year.
Don't like The Muffins? Take a nap in the sun.
Don't like Yeti? Find a quiet corner & talk to your buddies.
Don't like the Flower Kings? Make it an early nite.
But bitching about 1-2 bands that you don't like in the lineup of 8 doesn't
change a thing, doesn't help Progday, and is actually pretty silly, imo.
Steve F.
[remove .nospam to reply]
Jason E
...and winter here! I was thinking that my previous post could start to get
a bit Monty Python "four men from York-ish.... you know how it
goes...."arguing over prog bands you *don't* want to see!! I'd give me right
eye to argue over prog bands I *don't* want to see... when I was a lad the
closest thing I got to seein' prog was a deep purple covers band and they
couldn't even play "Child in Time or Space Truckin'...." that kind of
thing.
Adam Levin
> Adam wrote:
>
> >The bottom line is that I think it would be wrong to assume that the
> >larger turnout in 1998 was due to the Flower Kings as you imply.<<
>
> Ok, I admit you make some very good points, and maybe I am incorrect in my
> assesment of the reason for the audience spike in 1998. I guess the other side
> of that coin is that The Flower Kings have consistantly finished in the top 10
> (usually top 5) of just about every internet album poll I have seen in the past
> several years (Dutch Progressive Rock Page, Music News Network, ProgAndOther,
> ect..).
No doubt. Each of those sites/mailing lists/magazines are geared towards
the more poppier side of prog. My guess is similarly run polls in venues
like the avant-progressive, fusenet or gnosis-users mailing lists or
Expose magazine would hold significantly different results. Wouldn't you
think?
> I guess I don't understand all the bitching about them. We have Yeti,
> we have The Muffins, we have Agzigza, we have Polydactyl, why can't we
> have a band that appeals to the more mainstream element of the prog
> audience?
Certainly. I have no problem with the inclusion of bands that don't
neccesarily appeal to my tastes. My point is that I think there's a major
misperception that certain bands are the bands that are "really going to
pack 'em in" due to their label visibility while others are the ones "just
there to appease the guys who like the weird shit". I think it's
disrespectful to the other bands and their fans - and as I've pointed out,
there's ample evidence that the extent of the popularity of these bands is
not quite what people think.
> Do they deserve to be a headliner? I think that they do, but I
> guess it is all a matter of perspective.
It *is* a matter of perspective and I'm certainly sorry to see that YETI
has been stuck in the morning slot on Saturday - a slot that typically
gets less visibility due to the fact that many people who're travelling
tend to miss it.
I think it would be very interesting if at this year's festivals,
questionaires were handed out that asked questions such as:
1) What bands did you specifically come to see? (i.e. the ones that when
announced made you say "Now I'm definitely going!")
2) What bands had you never heard of before?
3) Of the bands that you had never heard of before, did you have any
favorites?
4) Which were your favorite performances?
Unlike internet polls where you're less likely to get the response of all
people who actually attended (and run the risk of getting bogus votes from
people who didn't), this would paint a more accurate picture of the tastes
of the people who actually get off of their asses and ATTEND such events.
Romerovm
>neccesarily appeal to my tastes. My point is that I think there's a major
>misperception that certain bands are the bands that are "really going to
>pack 'em in" due to their label visibility while others are the ones "just
>there to appease the guys who like the weird shit". I think it's
>disrespectful to the other bands and their fans - and as I've pointed out,
>there's ample evidence that the extent of the popularity of these bands is
>not quite what people think.
I agree 100 %.
>> Do they deserve to be a headliner? I think that they do, but I
>> guess it is all a matter of perspective.
>
>It *is* a matter of perspective and I'm certainly sorry to see that YETI
>has been stuck in the morning slot on Saturday - a slot that typically
>gets less visibility due to the fact that many people who're travelling
>tend to miss it.
>
>I think it would be very interesting if at this year's festivals,
>questionaires were handed out that asked questions such as:
>
>1) What bands did you specifically come to see? (i.e. the ones that when
> announced made you say "Now I'm definitely going!")
>2) What bands had you never heard of before?
>3) Of the bands that you had never heard of before, did you have any
> favorites?
>4) Which were your favorite performances?
>
>Unlike internet polls where you're less likely to get the response of all
>people who actually attended (and run the risk of getting bogus votes from
>people who didn't), this would paint a more accurate picture of the tastes
>of the people who actually get off of their asses and ATTEND such events.
This is a great idea, a lot of people that usually vote on this kind of polls
do not attend concerts. Adam's suggestion would give you the "real" numbers. I
assure you that half of the crowd will be there for Yeti, or Hands and not for
the Flower Kings, I include myself here...
Victor.
NP-Acid Mothers Temple & The Melting Paraiso UFO.
TOIB
> No doubt. Each of those sites/mailing lists/magazines are geared towards
> the more poppier side of prog. My guess is similarly run polls in venues
> like the avant-progressive, fusenet or gnosis-users mailing lists or
> Expose magazine would hold significantly different results. Wouldn't you
> think?
Well, sure. It wouldn't be a very fun festival though if we only
made people from the avant-progressive, fusenet and gnosis-users lists
feel welcome, though. And for what it's worth, in Steve's Year 2000 poll,
the Flower Kings finished 11th (I believe) in "best performances of all
time". The only other act from 1998 that beat them was A Piedi Nudi.
Bottom line... some people like The Flower Kings. Some people
don't. You should all buy tickets :).
> Certainly. I have no problem with the inclusion of bands that don't
> neccesarily appeal to my tastes. My point is that I think there's a major
> misperception that certain bands are the bands that are "really going to
> pack 'em in" due to their label visibility while others are the ones "just
> there to appease the guys who like the weird shit".
Well, as I explained before, we are depending on every band for
draw, and expecting a good show from every band. Besides, do you really
think I would be involved in something that was only going to pay lip
service to music I like?
>> Do they deserve to be a headliner? I think that they do, but I
>> guess it is all a matter of perspective.
> It *is* a matter of perspective and I'm certainly sorry to see that YETI
> has been stuck in the morning slot on Saturday
The slot they get "stuck" into is to accommodate their own
schedule and equipment needs. The full band schedule is not yet set in
stone, or else we'd have published it.
> I think it would be very interesting if at this year's festivals,
> questionaires were handed out [...]
This *would* be a good idea.
Regards,
--
Sean McFee
Progluvr
released their latest (and some think the best) CD, 'Space Revolver'
I'm looking forward to this fest!
Deb
Zero the Hero
> I think it would be very interesting if at this year's festivals,
> questionaires were handed out that asked questions such as:
> 1) What bands did you specifically come to see? (i.e. the ones that when
> announced made you say "Now I'm definitely going!")
> 2) What bands had you never heard of before?
> 3) Of the bands that you had never heard of before, did you have any
> favorites?
> 4) Which were your favorite performances?
This is an excellent idea. Let's do it.
NP: Marc Johnson - Bass Desires
--
Jason Ellerbee - jel...@unf.edu
DREAMS WIDE AWAKE radio show - http://www.unf.edu/~jeller/dreams.html
Now broadcasting on the Internet!
Sturgeon's Law: 'Ninety percent of everything is crap.'
Zero the Hero
> 2) Have a wide variety of quality bands, knowing that you will make NO ONE
> completely happy with your choices, but also knowing that there should be quite
> a bit there for everyone.
> Progday have chosen #2 and have done an fine job of it, imo.
FWIW, I have always preferred this approach. Diversity is everything.
> Don't like The Muffins? Take a nap in the sun.
> Don't like Yeti? Find a quiet corner & talk to your buddies.
> Don't like the Flower Kings? Make it an early nite.
This clearly demonstrates the advantages of having an outdoor festival,
IMO.
> But bitching about 1-2 bands that you don't like in the lineup of 8 doesn't
> change a thing, doesn't help Progday, and is actually pretty silly, imo.
Couldn't agree more.
prog...@mindspring.com
>I realized right after posting that I forgot to mention the most obvious
>explanation of 1998 boasting the largest attendance of any of the Progdays
>past or future - NO COMPETITION. That was the only year in Progday's
>history that there was no other US prog festival to compete for
>fan attendance. Progscape was gone. Progfest didn't happen that year and
>NEARFest was yet to come.
I think the 'no competition' goes a long way towards explaining the
turnout in '98...and conversely the turnout in 2000....HOWEVER,
61% of tickets sold thus far for ProgDay 2001 have been to fans of The
Flower Kings....and if we focus on just the phone orders last night,
that would be 100% of those called and ordered tickets had comments or
questions pertaining specifically to The Flower Kings. While most
callers were open-minded concerning the other bands, Azigza was the
only other band named specifically.
Obviously, there are still a lot of tickets left to sell and I'm sure
some Yeti or Muffins fanactics will be ordering...but it does appear
that (1) we were smart to add The Flower Kings to the line-up and (2)
they seemed to have earned their headliner status.
Peter <prog...@mindspring.com>
AllGdPple
>From: Adam Levin ale...@DarkAether.net
>Date: 5/2/01 11:02 AM Eastern
>1) What bands did you specifically come to see? (i.e. the ones that when
> announced made you say "Now I'm definitely going!")
>2) What bands had you never heard of before?
>3) Of the bands that you had never heard of before, did you have any
> favorites?
>4) Which were your favorite performances?
>
excellent idea......a poll could be conducted on the ProgDay website for ticket
buyers only....you'd have to register to vote in the poll and Peter could
moderate since he's the ticket agent(i think:)...
just a musing (c'mon KANSAS fans, sing it with me)
kenny
Stevesly
>No doubt. Each of those sites/mailing lists/magazines are geared towards
>the more poppier side of prog.<<
Yes, no doubt about it the polls that I cited to tend to attract a more
mainstream side of the prog audience, and tend to reflect similar opinions.
>> My guess is similarly run polls in venues
>like the avant-progressive, fusenet or gnosis-users mailing lists or
>Expose magazine would hold significantly different results. Wouldn't you
>think?<<
Yes, in fact Expose's annual writer's top 10 lists usually are very different
from most of the internet polls that I am aware of, and their readership
appears to support many of those opinions. Are Expose's readers the majority?
The Ghostland website recently conducted a poll asking "which prog publication
do you read most often?" Expose finished a distant second to Progression who
received 56.8% of the vote. Expose and Sea Of Tranquility received 12.3% and
Music News Network 12.5%. Of course this poll is not scientific so maybe no
conclusions can be drawn from it. With the exception of Music News Network I
have no idea what the actual subscription base is for these publications.
Personally I am a subscriber to all 4 publications and find things to like in
all of them.
>>Certainly. I have no problem with the inclusion of bands that don't
>neccesarily appeal to my tastes. My point is that I think there's a major
>misperception that certain bands are the bands that are "really going to
>pack 'em in" due to their label visibility while others are the ones "just
>there to appease the guys who like the weird shit". <<
I guess I take my cue from NEARfest. They sold out in 99 with Spock's Beard
and IQ on top. 2000 with Transatlantic and Happy The Man on top, and 2001 with
Banco and Porcupine Tree on top. Of course you could argue that the undercard
bands draw as much as the headliners, but in my discussions with Rob my
impression from him has been that the headliner acts have mainly "sold" the
festival. Of course I am not directly involved so I could be wrong on this.
>> I think it's
>disrespectful to the other bands and their fans - and as I've pointed out,
>there's ample evidence that the extent of the popularity of these bands is
>not quite what people think.<<
I think that there is plenty of disrespect on both sides of the fence.
>>>It *is* a matter of perspective and I'm certainly sorry to see that YETI
>has been stuck in the morning slot on Saturday - a slot that typically
>gets less visibility due to the fact that many people who're travelling
>tend to miss it.<<
I really can't answer this question as I was not involved in band placement on
the bill.
>I think it would be very interesting if at this year's festivals,
>questionaires were handed out that asked questions such as:
>
>1) What bands did you specifically come to see? (i.e. the ones that when
> announced made you say "Now I'm definitely going!")
>2) What bands had you never heard of before?
>3) Of the bands that you had never heard of before, did you have any
> favorites?
>4) Which were your favorite performances?<<
I think this is a very good idea. NEARfest did this the first year, and I
think it would be a good idea for Progday as well.
>Unlike internet polls where you're less likely to get the response of all
>people who actually attended (and run the risk of getting bogus votes from
>people who didn't), this would paint a more accurate picture of the tastes
>of the people who actually get off of their asses and ATTEND such events.<<
Yes, I agree. I have conducted internet polls after the last several Progdays,
but the results can be skewed by people who did not actually attend the event.
Steve Sly
(NP - Fates Warning - Still Life)
laura in space
Adam Levin (ale...@DarkAether.net) wrote:
: 1) What bands did you specifically come to see? (i.e. the ones that when
: announced made you say "Now I'm definitely going!")
Azigza and Hands.
: 2) What bands had you never heard of before?
Muffins. have heard *of* Yeti; haven't *heard* yet.
have heard and like Polydactyl.
really don't care about the Flower Kings. (fwiw.) wouldn't get me there,
but don't *think* I'll be leaving early. ;-)
: 3) Of the bands that you had never heard of before, did you have any
: favorites?
: 4) Which were your favorite performances?
donno yet. ;-)
I like the "outa nowhere" bands like Ankh at Baja. never heard of em and
they blew me away. wonder who will do that at ProgDay ... ?
laura
another good q:
--
So where the hell was Biggles when you needed him last Saturday?
laura in space
: Steve <cune...@aol.com.nospam> set up us the bomb:
: > But bitching about 1-2 bands that you don't like in the lineup of 8 doesn't
: > change a thing, doesn't help Progday, and is actually pretty silly, imo.
: Couldn't agree more.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
?? I find this just a *bit* odd coming from *you*, Jason, as I have seen
you do (more than?) your share of lineup-bitching. ;-) so I think you
*could* agree more.
<just razzin you ...>
laura
--
Dawn of Our Power we amuse redescending as fast as misused expression ...
*Legion* (Brendon Rapp)
Heh. Well, if someone *were* to do a pre-fest poll, these would be my
answers (this assumes that I do make it at ProgDay, which at this
point I consider to be a 50/50 chance).
>: 1) What bands did you specifically come to see? (i.e. the ones that when
>: announced made you say "Now I'm definitely going!")
Yeti and Azigza.
>: 2) What bands had you never heard of before?
I've heard of every band. I have not heard much Muffins or Hands,
though, so those would be fresh to me.
I guess if one has to be literal, I haven't heard any Polydactyl, but
I dig the last Ozone Quartet album.
As for the Flower Kings... well, I'd watch their set and hope for the
best.
-- *L*
Zero the Hero
> Zero the Hero (jel...@osprey.unf.edu) wrote:
> : Couldn't agree more.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ?? I find this just a *bit* odd coming from *you*, Jason, as I have seen
> you do (more than?) your share of lineup-bitching. ;-) so I think you
> *could* agree more.
> <just razzin you ...>
Razz away, my dear :-)
Yeah, I could do without the Flower Kings, but I heartily applaud the PD
staff for such a diverse lineup. I value diversity in these festivals,
even if it means I don't like all the bands (I'd like to like most of
them, though). The PD lineup this year might be the best in that regard
in recent festival history, attempting to represent 'Prog' in all its
forms (or most of them anyway). Of course, we still have the last two
band announcements to look forward to...
The main thing I'm agreeing with Steve about is all the perennial
arguments that flare up every time a controversial band is announced.
People need to chill.
One thing I have bitched about in the past is when prog legends have been
relegated to a spot on the undercard (I love that term), while some
wet-behind-the-ears newbies with mondo advertising exposure get the
headliner spots. I'm not sure my opinion on that will change, but it's
neither here nor there...
--
Jason Ellerbee - jel...@unf.edu
DREAMS WIDE AWAKE radio show - http://www.unf.edu/~jeller/dreams.html
Now broadcasting on the Internet!
End Credit Ratio: The longer the end credits are, the more money there
was spent on special effects, and the less money there was spent on plot,
characterization, and dialogue.
-- Ebert's Little Movie Glossary
ScippyLisp
>As for the Flower Kings... well, I'd watch their set and hope for the
>best.
>
>-- *L*
>
Hopefully they will play all the bonus trax from Flower Power. ;-)
s
e
a
n
*Legion* (Brendon Rapp)
>>best.
>
*sob*
I'd survive. But if the Flower Kings played Sinkadus covers, I would
start hurting people...
-- *L*
ScippyLisp
>>Hopefully they will play all the bonus trax from Flower Power. ;-)
>
>*sob*
>
>I'd survive. But if the Flower Kings played Sinkadus covers, I would
>start hurting people...
LOL!
s
e
a
n