Bartok
sanghyun park
Univers Zero) are supposedly influenced by his music. So, I'like to try some
Bartok. Any recommendation? I have no knowledge in classical music. I don't
even know where to buy classical CDs.
SP
cap...@hotmail.com
Try the section in your local CD store labelled "classical". You
should find Bartok under "B". Hope that helps.
Ville V Sinkko
String quartets, maybe, and the "Divertimento" for strings, and the "Music
for strings, percussion and celesta". Those are among his more esteemed
works. They don't sound much like UZ on the surface, though. Albert
Huybrechts (died 1938) would be much closer if you want to hear the real
forefather of UZ's sound, but very little of his music has been issued on
record in modern times. I only got to hear it by getting my hands on a
score and stuffing a bit of it into a MIDI notation program, and it was
very very familiar sounding. ;)
Robert Carlberg
>Try the section in your local CD store labelled "classical". You
>should find Bartok under "B". Hope that helps.
Wise ass... Here's a short list of my favorite Bartok (and yes, much of it
would resonate with UZ fans I think):
Concerto for Strings, Percussion & Celesta
The Miraculous Mandarin
Hungarian Sketches
Concerto for Orchestra
Hungarian Songs
Dance Suite
cap...@hotmail.com
wrote:
>Capolk wrote:
>
>>Try the section in your local CD store labelled "classical". You
>>should find Bartok under "B". Hope that helps.
>
>Wise ass...
Well, gee whiz - I was just answering his question. He DID say he had
no idea where to find classical CD's.
Steve
Bartok and feel modestly qualified to answer.
I would personally recommend his piano works, especially the ones that
specifically reference 'folk music' of Eastern Europe (such as 15 Romanian
dances, 2 Bulgarian whatevers).
There are many budget releases of his piano oeuvre, and I think any of them
would give you a good taste of what it's all about.
Steve
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
[remove .nos.pam to reply]
Alex Temple
should appeal to any UZ fan. I recommend that too.
--
Alex Temple
fiber_optiq at yahoo dot com
"This Temple raving of the week is brought to you by Wayside,
proudly bringing you wierd avant shit since 1981" -Pr33t
Alex Temple
The most UZ-like is probably the first two Piano Concerti. The
recording with Peter Donohoe and the one with Zoltan Kocsis are both excellent.
Also fantastic:
- Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta (I recommend Boulez or Fritz
Reiner conducting -- this is one of my favorite pieces of music ever)
- Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion (I have this on a CD called
_Bartok, Stravinsky, Cage_, played by some Japanese musicians whose
names I don't remember. Great performance.)
- String Quartets (I recommend the Emerson Quartet performance -- these
are a bit more "difficult" than some of the other stuff in this list)
- Piano Music Vol. 4 played by Zoltan Kocsis (with such works as Out of
Doors and the Piano Sonata, both awesome).
As for where to buy classical CDs, try Amazon.
Alex Temple
Check out the Louis Andriessen CD with De Stijl and M is for Man, Music,
Mozart. Nothing to do with Bartok, but any RIO fan should be enthralled
with this music.
Robert Carlberg
Didn't he host Family Feud?
Robert Carlberg
>
>Squirrel bastards.
Pfffft. We all know your "street" is a cellblock, Mike.
Ben Wolfson
> Oh, and Bohuslav Martinu's Double Concerto is a fine Bartok ripoff which
> should appeal to any UZ fan. I recommend that too.
Is there a note of condescension in this post, perhaps?
--
I certainly seem to be enjoying myself in the same way, smacking my
lips, sighing and moaning, dripping [REDACTED] on my shirt and
smearing it into my moustache ... But ... If I snuck a lick of your
cone, I wouldn't smack my lips. -- Ted Cohen
Alex Temple
>
> On Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:35:53 +0000, Alex Temple wrote:
>
> > Oh, and Bohuslav Martinu's Double Concerto is a fine Bartok ripoff which
> > should appeal to any UZ fan. I recommend that too.
>
> Is there a note of condescension in this post, perhaps?
>
excellent piece despite not being very original.
TOIB
Music for Celesta, Percussion and Whatever
String Quartets (you can get all six on 2-CD sets)
Bagatelles
Definitely someone you'll want to hear if you're a prog fan.
Regards,
--
Sean McFee
Tony Elka
<wol...@uchicago.edu> wrote:
> Is there a note of condescension in this post, perhaps?
Sounded a bit like bar talk to me.
Tony
"Set the Controls for the Heart of the Candelabra!"
-Liberace
from "A Saucerful of Sequins"
Robert Carlberg
I've always wondered, which note is the "note of condescension"? Is it B#?
Alex Temple
>
> >> Is there a note of condescension in this post, perhaps?
>
> I've always wondered, which note is the "note of condescension"? Is it B#?
Why do you always act like I don't understand what "condescension" means?
TheKobaian
>
>Didn't he host Family Feud?
That's Richard Dawson you're thinking of.
The Scuba DIVER Presently Known As Chris
Remove Nospam to respond
sdavmor
>>>Check out the Louis Andriessen CD
>>
>>Didn't he host Family Feud?
>
> The Scuba DIVER Presently Known As Chris
>
Louie Anderson hosted the "new" Family Fued. You clearly don't spend
enough time watching train-wreck TV.
--
Cheers,
SDM -- a 21st century schizoid man
http://systemstheory.net internet music project
http://thecleanersystem.com software for dry cleaners
NP: nothing
Jeremy Weissenburger
"sdavmor" <sda...@somewhereincyberspace.com> wrote:
> TheKobaian wrote:
>>>> Check out the Louis Andriessen CD
>>>
>>> Didn't he host Family Feud?
>>
>> That's Richard Dawson you're thinking of.
>> The Scuba DIVER Presently Known As Chris
>>
>
> Louie Anderson hosted the "new" Family Fued. You clearly don't spend
> enough time watching train-wreck TV.
And even odder, the new host is Richard Karn of "Home Improvement."
And no, I haven't watched it to see the train wreck.
--Jeremy
L Perez
Bartok is one of my favorite Modern/Impressionist composers. Get
Concerto for 2 Pianos, Percussion and Orchestra
LP
Robert Carlberg
I'd explain it to you, but I don't have all day.
Alex Temple
>
> sanghyun park <spa...@ux12.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote in message news:<InoJ9.4604$Vf3....@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...
> > Very often I encounter the name Bartok. Many of my favorite bands (like
> > Univers Zero) are supposedly influenced by his music. So, I'like to try some
> > Bartok. Any recommendation? I have no knowledge in classical music. I don't
> > even know where to buy classical CDs.
> >
> > SP
>
> Bartok is one of my favorite Modern/Impressionist composers.
Impressionist? How do you figure?
sanghyun park
I will check it out. Thanks.
SP
sdavmor
>>Why do you always act like I don't understand what "condescension" means?
>
>
<rimshot>
LOL! very droll, Robert!
Steven Sullivan
> sanghyun park <spa...@ux12.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote in message news:<InoJ9.4604$Vf3....@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...
>> Very often I encounter the name Bartok. Many of my favorite bands (like
>> Univers Zero) are supposedly influenced by his music. So, I'like to try some
>> Bartok. Any recommendation? I have no knowledge in classical music. I don't
>> even know where to buy classical CDs.
>>
>> SP
> Bartok is one of my favorite Modern/Impressionist composers.
LOL.
Incredible.
--
-S.
"Because I hate you." -- Mr. Tinkles
Alex Temple
>
> "Music for strings, percussion and celesta" seems to be a consensus.
> I will check it out. Thanks.
>
expecting too much UZ similarity or you may be disappointed.
Robert Carlberg
>
Surprised they've let you wander that far. Is the TV room at the far end of
the hall?
Zero the Hero
> Bartok is one of my favorite Modern/Impressionist composers. Get
> Concerto for 2 Pianos, Percussion and Orchestra
...which is a large-ensemble version of the Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion.
Um, 'impressionist'??
0
TOIB
>> Bartok is one of my favorite Modern/Impressionist composers.
> LOL.
> Incredible.
Gotta suck when you use two genres and neither one is quite right.
Regards,
--
Sean McFee
Robert Carlberg
Close. Isn't Napoleon usually pictured with his hand inside his *shirt*?
Pure Absurd
> Steven awakens Beta 14 OK:
> >> Bartok is one of my favorite Modern/Impressionist composers.
>
> > LOL.
>
> > Incredible.
>
> Gotta suck when you use two genres and neither one is quite right.
Probably in his understanding 'Impressionist' is someone who is 'impressive' :D
Vadim
NP: Trap - Insurrection
Pure Absurd
So far I have an impression that any Bartok I buy is great...
Or is there anything what I should avoid?
Vadim
Alex Temple
>
> Steven awakens Beta 14 OK:
> >> Bartok is one of my favorite Modern/Impressionist composers.
>
> > LOL.
>
> > Incredible.
>
> Gotta suck when you use two genres and neither one is quite right.
>
Alex Temple
Piano Concerto, Concerto for Orchestra. Most would disagree, though.
For the most part, buying Bartók is a gamble between "amazing" and
merely "very good."
Alex Temple
>
> Pure Absurd wrote:
> >
> > sanghyun park wrote:
> >
> > > "Music for strings, percussion and celesta" seems to be a consensus.
> > > I will check it out. Thanks.
> > >
> > > SP
> >
> > So far I have an impression that any Bartok I buy is great...
> >
> > Or is there anything what I should avoid?
> >
> I don't like his later, more Romantic(ish) stuff that much -- e.g. 3rd
> Piano Concerto, Concerto for Orchestra. Most would disagree, though.
> For the most part, buying Bartók is a gamble between "amazing" and
> merely "very good."
>
Julia
>
>It's an amazing piece, and I think you will love it, but don't go in
>expecting too much UZ similarity or you may be disappointed.
I suspect a UZ fan would see the most direct similarity would be with the
3rd and 4th string quartets, where Bartok goes overboard with the glissandos
and other musical devices which IIRC are meant to be an acoustic simulation of
machine music. But getting the right recording can be a problem. I don't recall
what mine is, but it is the complete six, DDD and performed by Eastern Europeans.
And it is harsh as all hell, to the point where I suffer listening fatigue.
So can anyone suggest a suitably warm interpretation/recording, or am I
asking for something that doesn't exist?
--
Julia Dream
Julia
>
>So far I have an impression that any Bartok I buy is great...
>
>Or is there anything what I should avoid?
Depends what your attitude is to classical vocal music. The "Bluebeard"
opera could be a bit much for some, I suspect. But yes, Bartok is one of
the few composers that I personally find to be
equally engaging regardless of whether he is doing chamber, orchestral,
concerto, etc.
--
Julia Dream
Tony Elka
Carlberg <rcar...@aol.computer> wrote:
> Close. Isn't Napoleon usually pictured with his hand inside his *shirt*?
Looking at his hand, this guys seems to have a bone apart.
Austin Bunch
"Tony Elka" <to...@shadowlane.com> wrote in message
news:111220021545393715%to...@shadowlane.com...
> In article <20021211172505...@mb-ct.aol.com>, Robert
> Carlberg <rcar...@aol.computer> wrote:
>
> > Close. Isn't Napoleon usually pictured with his hand inside his
*shirt*?
>
>
> Looking at his hand, this guys seems to have a bone apart.
>
> Tony
>
Hardy-har-har
Alex Temple
>
> In article <3DF77B0D...@yahoo.com>, Alex Temple <fiber_optiqWantsspa...@yahoo.com> writes:
> >
> >It's an amazing piece, and I think you will love it, but don't go in
> >expecting too much UZ similarity or you may be disappointed.
>
> I suspect a UZ fan would see the most direct similarity would be with the
> 3rd and 4th string quartets, where Bartok goes overboard with the glissandos
> and other musical devices which IIRC are meant to be an acoustic simulation of
> machine music. But getting the right recording can be a problem. I don't recall
> what mine is, but it is the complete six, DDD and performed by Eastern
> Europeans.
> And it is harsh as all hell, to the point where I suffer listening fatigue.
Sounds like Takacs.
> So can anyone suggest a suitably warm interpretation/recording, or am I
> asking for something that doesn't exist?
Try Emerson, but if you want warmth, the string quartets are not the
best Bartok to be listening to. Try the Viola Concerto, 2nd and 3rd
Piano Concerto, Contrasts, Concerto for Orchestra, the oft-mentioned M.
for S, P and C...
TOIB
>> Gotta suck when you use two genres and neither one is quite right.
>>
> You have a problem with describing Bartok as "Modern"?
Yes, it seems rather simplistic to me, since folk music was been a
very important influence for Bartok, whereas in general Modernism was
concerned with new musical language.
What's with you and the one-liners lately anyway?
Regards,
--
Sean McFee
Alex Temple
>
> Alex awakens Beta 14 OK:
> >> Gotta suck when you use two genres and neither one is quite right.
> >>
> > You have a problem with describing Bartok as "Modern"?
>
> Yes, it seems rather simplistic to me, since folk music was been a
> very important influence for Bartok, whereas in general Modernism was
> concerned with new musical language.
Stravinsky also used folk music, and he's pretty much an archetypical Modernist.
>
> What's with you and the one-liners lately anyway?
>
I've been reading RMP as a break from working on papers, so I'm being
frequent and concise rather than occasional and long-winded.
no.nine
Excellent.
> Concerto for Orchestra
Excellenter.
Alex Temple
>
> > Concerto for Strings, Percussion & Celesta
>
> Excellent.
>
--
Alex Temple - NP: The Shins - Oh, Inverted World
L Perez
good thing you're only 23, otherwise I would have expected you to know
this...
yes, Bartok is considered Modern but his initial influence was
Impressionist. Please oh great and wise 23 year old boy, educate me
now... ;-P
Music History 102:
Béla Bartók
Born: Nagyszentmiklós, now part of Rumania, March 25, 1881
Died: New York, September 26, 1945
Bartók began his musical studies as a boy and continued at the
Budapest Conservatory. Initially attracted to the French impressionist
school, Bartók soon became interested in collecting the actual
melodies and rhythms of Hungarian folk music.
Fluxury
I dug through all the Bartok responses and didn't see my all-time favourite
piece:
'The wooden prince' Sz 60 (op.13).
I've got a Pierre Boulez / Chicago Symfony Orchestra recording on Deutsche
Grammophon that I recommend. The Wooden Price has the complete orchestra
discovering the 'woodness' of instruments.
That CD has 'Cantata profana' Sz 94 as an extra.
Jos
Steven Sullivan
> Excellent.
>> Concerto for Orchestra
> Excellenter.
no, worser.
Steven Sullivan
> Steven awakens Beta 14 OK:
>>> Bartok is one of my favorite Modern/Impressionist composers.
>> LOL.
>> Incredible.
> Gotta suck when you use two genres and neither one is quite right.
It's the de rigeur Capitalization that delights me.
Steven Sullivan
> TOIB wrote:
>>
>> Alex awakens Beta 14 OK:
>> >> Gotta suck when you use two genres and neither one is quite right.
>> >>
>> > You have a problem with describing Bartok as "Modern"?
>>
>> Yes, it seems rather simplistic to me, since folk music was been a
>> very important influence for Bartok, whereas in general Modernism was
>> concerned with new musical language.
> Stravinsky also used folk music, and he's pretty much an archetypical Modernist.
Except when he was a neo-Classicist.
Steven Sullivan
> Julia wrote:
>>
>> In article <3DF77B0D...@yahoo.com>, Alex Temple <fiber_optiqWantsspa...@yahoo.com> writes:
>> >
>> >It's an amazing piece, and I think you will love it, but don't go in
>> >expecting too much UZ similarity or you may be disappointed.
>>
>> I suspect a UZ fan would see the most direct similarity would be with the
>> 3rd and 4th string quartets, where Bartok goes overboard with the glissandos
>> and other musical devices which IIRC are meant to be an acoustic simulation of
>> machine music. But getting the right recording can be a problem. I don't recall
>> what mine is, but it is the complete six, DDD and performed by Eastern
>> Europeans.
>> And it is harsh as all hell, to the point where I suffer listening fatigue.
> Sounds like Takacs.
No one else I've heard (emerson, Juilliard, Tokyo, a half dozen other ensembles)
has gotten them *right*.
Steven Sullivan
I think the Third Piano Concerto blows, meself. Nos 1 and 2 are
the height of brilliance, though.
And the early symphonic stuff -- "Kossuth', "Wooden Prince', etc --
is rather derivative. "Bluebeard's Castle' bores me, except for that
crazy C maj organ blast in the middle.
Mike Prete
news:eb91c9d7.02121...@posting.google.com...
> se...@nexusSP.AMcarleton.ca (TOIB) wrote in message
news:<at8b11$gbr$1...@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>...
> > Steven awakens Beta 14 OK:
> > >> Bartok is one of my favorite Modern/Impressionist composers.
> >
> > > LOL.
> >
> > > Incredible.
> >
> > Gotta suck when you use two genres and neither one is quite right.
> >
> > Regards,
>
> good thing you're only 23, otherwise I would have expected you to know
> this...
> yes, Bartok is considered Modern but his initial influence was
> Impressionist. Please oh great and wise 23 year old boy, educate me
> now... ;-P
>
> Music History 102:
ROFL. Um... nevermind. You'll find out soon enough.
> Béla Bartók
> Born: Nagyszentmiklós, now part of Rumania, March 25, 1881
> Died: New York, September 26, 1945
> Bartók began his musical studies as a boy and continued at the
> Budapest Conservatory. Initially attracted to the French impressionist
> school, Bartók soon became interested in collecting the actual
> melodies and rhythms of Hungarian folk music.
--
Mike Prete
www.progweed.net
Alex Temple
--
Alex Temple - NP: Eno - Taking Tiger Mountain (By Strategy)
Alex Temple
>
> > Sounds like Takacs.
>
> No one else I've heard (emerson, Juilliard, Tokyo, a half dozen other ensembles)
> has gotten them *right*.
>
than that...
Alex Temple
Modernism isn't a style. Neo-Classicism is a Modernist movement, just
like twelve-tone composition, Cubism, Surrealism, etc.
cap...@hotmail.com
<fiber_optiqWantsspa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Steven Sullivan wrote:
>>
>Modernism isn't a style. Neo-Classicism is a Modernist movement, just
>like twelve-tone composition, Cubism, Surrealism, etc.
Bowel...
DTohir
>Impressionist. Please oh great and wise 23 year old boy, educate me
>now... ;-P
>
>Music History 102:
>
>Béla Bartók
>Born: Nagyszentmiklós, now part of Rumania, March 25, 1881
>Died: New York, September 26, 1945
>Bartók began his musical studies as a boy and continued at the
>Budapest Conservatory. Initially attracted to the French impressionist
>school, Bartók soon became interested in collecting the actual
>melodies and rhythms of Hungarian folk music.
>
Whatever his initial influences (*everyone* was influenced by Debussy's
harmonic language), to classify Bartok as an impressionist is to completely
miss the mark. Most musicologists reject the notion of impressionism anyway as
an attempt to saddle music with an art movements designation that simply
doesn't fit.
Antonio Siniscalchi
> Very often I encounter the name Bartok. Many of my favorite bands (like
try music for strings percussion and celesta.
Alex Temple
> >
> > > Initially attracted to the French impressionist
> > > school, Bartók soon became interested in collecting the actual
> > > melodies and rhythms of Hungarian folk music.
>
> soon became interested in writing his own more distinctive songs...."
>
> Would this mean Lennon is a "skiffle composer"? (Oops, I should say "Skiffle
> composer," in this case.)
Perhaps you would, if you were a big fan of his work from that period.
--
Alex Temple
Julia
>
>No one else I've heard (emerson, Juilliard, Tokyo, a half dozen other ensembles)
>has gotten them *right*.
I went back and checked mine, which is the Eder Quartet, on Teledisc. Despite
being DDD, it looks to have been originally recorded in 1981, and then possibly
remastered in 1996. I suspect my problem is a combination of recording and
performance. But, hunting around on the Net, it appears that lots of them wind
up accused of being cold and/or stiff. Tokyo actually seem to get a generally
good rap.
--
Julia Dream
L Perez
> TOIB <se...@nexussp.amcarleton.ca> wrote:
> > Steven awakens Beta 14 OK:
> >>> Bartok is one of my favorite Modern/Impressionist composers.
>
> >> LOL.
>
> >> Incredible.
>
> > Gotta suck when you use two genres and neither one is quite right.
>
> It's the de rigeur Capitalization that delights me.
I dunno which names get caps and which dont so I cap 'em all! ;-P
"I'm a busta cap in yo ass" :)
L Perez
> "L Perez" <LPerez...@usa.net> wrote in message
> news:eb91c9d7.02121...@posting.google.com...
> > se...@nexusSP.AMcarleton.ca (TOIB) wrote in message
> news:<at8b11$gbr$1...@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>...
> > > Steven awakens Beta 14 OK:
> > > >> Bartok is one of my favorite Modern/Impressionist composers.
>
> > > > LOL.
>
> > > > Incredible.
> > >
> > > Gotta suck when you use two genres and neither one is quite right.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> >
> > good thing you're only 23, otherwise I would have expected you to know
> > this...
> > yes, Bartok is considered Modern but his initial influence was
> > Impressionist. Please oh great and wise 23 year old boy, educate me
> > now... ;-P
> >
> > Music History 102:
>
> ROFL. Um... nevermind. You'll find out soon enough.
oh goody... the 19 year old who has his trunk wrapped around the 23
year old's tail chimes in...
enlighten us oh aged wise one! ;-P
TOIB
Dunno what you mean, since my good friend quoted back my
assessment of how Bartok differs from the Modernists in general in order
to "disagree" with me.
;-P.
Regards,
Sean
> L Perez wrote:
>>
>> se...@nexusSP.AMcarleton.ca (TOIB) wrote in message news:<at8b11$gbr$1...@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca>...
>> > Steven awakens Beta 14 OK:
>> > >> Bartok is one of my favorite Modern/Impressionist composers.
>> >
>> > > LOL.
>> >
>> > > Incredible.
>> >
>> > Gotta suck when you use two genres and neither one is quite right.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>>
>> good thing you're only 23, otherwise I would have expected you to know
>> this...
>> yes, Bartok is considered Modern but his initial influence was
>> Impressionist. Please oh great and wise 23 year old boy, educate me
>> now... ;-P
>>
>> Music History 102:
>>
>> Béla Bartók
>> Born: Nagyszentmiklós, now part of Rumania, March 25, 1881
>> Died: New York, September 26, 1945
>> Bartók began his musical studies as a boy and continued at the
>> Budapest Conservatory. Initially attracted to the French impressionist
>> school, Bartók soon became interested in collecting the actual
>> melodies and rhythms of Hungarian folk music.
--
Sean McFee
Garth Wallace
> sanghyun park wrote:
>
>
>>"Music for strings, percussion and celesta" seems to be a consensus.
>>I will check it out. Thanks.
>>
>>SP
>
>
> So far I have an impression that any Bartok I buy is great...
>
> Or is there anything what I should avoid?
I don't know what to avoid, but I will say that the Concerto for Violin
and Orchestra conducted by Boulex with Gil Shaham on violin, on Deutche
Gramafon, is amazing.
--
Happy denizen of the Nightstar IRC Network
Webcomics discussion: irc://us.nightstar.net/webcomics
Progressive rock chat: irc://us.nightstar.net/progrock
Martial arts talk: irc://us.nightstar.net/martial-arts
The Quick & Dirty Guide to IRC:
http://himi.org/~gwalla/qndguide2irc.html
L Perez
> Alex awakens Beta 14 OK:
> > Crap... he's right!
>
> Dunno what you mean, since my good friend quoted back my
> assessment of how Bartok differs from the Modernists in general in order
> to "disagree" with me.
dude, ya need ya sum glasses!!!
I quoted a scholar on the subject who stated he is indeed considered
Modern (which you said was wrong) whose influences are Impressionist
(which you also said is wrong)
now how do you get that since *you* were wrong on both accounts, that
makes *me* wrong?!?
wait, you dont have to answer that... I was 23 once too ;-P
DTohir
>Modern (which you said was wrong) whose influences are Impressionist
>(which you also said is wrong)
You quote didn't address whether Bartok was modern or not. Of course part of
the problem here is semantics, are we talking simply about recent or are we
talking about if he is a modernist. If the former, well he's somewhat recent I
guess, but he's certainly not a modernist.
As far as the impressionist part of the equation, his early influences do not
make him an impressionist. Most every major source is going to discuss him as
part of the 20th century nationalists.
Greg Northrup
> dude, ya need ya sum glasses!!!
> I quoted a scholar on the subject who stated he is indeed considered
> Modern (which you said was wrong) whose influences are Impressionist
> (which you also said is wrong)
Sean didn't say that Bartok's influences weren't impressionist, he
said that Bartok himself wasn't an impressionist.
--
Greg N.
www.gnosis2000.net
www.progweed.net
Alex Temple
Ugh. Calling Bartók a nationalist (musical, not political) is totally
missing the point.
--
Alex Temple - NP: Spoon - Kill the Moonlight
DTohir
>missing the point.
>
Tell that to Donald Grout & practically every other musicologist out there...
;-)
L Perez
Don Pardo... tell him what he's won!
TOIB
>> You quote didn't address whether Bartok was modern or not. Of course
>> part of the problem here is semantics, are we talking simply about
>> recent or are we talking about if he is a modernist. If the former,
>> well he's somewhat recent I guess, but he's certainly not a modernist.
Thank you.
>> As far as the impressionist part of the equation, his early influences
>> do not make him an impressionist.
Thank you again :).
Then ART wrote:
> Ugh. Calling Bartók a nationalist (musical, not political) is totally
> missing the point.
Without knowing what point you refer to it's hard to parse that.
Regards,
--
Sean McFee
Alex Temple
Give me their email addresses and I will!
--
Alex Temple
Alex Temple
>
> Then ART wrote:
> > Ugh. Calling Bartók a nationalist (musical, not political) is totally
> > missing the point.
>
> Without knowing what point you refer to it's hard to parse that.
>
but Bartók's music is much more about complex thematic development,
contrasting key/pitch-set areas, orchestration, etc.
--
Alex Temple - NP: The Muffins - <185>
TOIB
>>
> The point of his music. Sure, Magyar folk music is a major influence,
> but Bartók's music is much more about complex thematic development,
> contrasting key/pitch-set areas, orchestration, etc.
Well my tendency is to defer to you since you are fairly
knowledgeable on classical music in general, but I think the "point of his
music" *must* include the study and inclusion of his folk
(National) music. Keep in mind that these nationalist movements were
generally not associated with Modernists, but with Romanticists; the
Czechs, the Russians, the Germans, etc. all raided their cultural
heritage. That is why it's notable, and hell, interesting, that Bartok
would have done so compared to most of who is generally considered
"Modernist", although obviously Bartok took it so much further than
the "Romantic nationalists".
And frankly with this many genre tags these posts are starting to
look a bit too much like you-know-who. So I'd just as soon take the rest
of this up off-line :).
Regards,
--
Sean McFee
Mike Prete
news:37004ff3.02121...@posting.google.com...
> LPerez...@usa.net (L Perez) wrote in message
news:<eb91c9d7.02121...@posting.google.com>...
> > dude, ya need ya sum glasses!!!
> > I quoted a scholar on the subject who stated he is indeed considered
> > Modern (which you said was wrong) whose influences are Impressionist
> > (which you also said is wrong)
>
> Sean didn't say that Bartok's influences weren't impressionist, he
> said that Bartok himself wasn't an impressionist.
Another one with his trunk wrapped around the 23 y/o's tail! ;-P
--
Mike Prete
www.progweed.net
"I dunno which names get caps and which dont so I cap 'em all! ;-P" - Louie
Perez
david.gooding1
lightweight (for Bartock!). His real breakthrough was 'Bluebeard's Castle'
which is fantastic but defintely an acquired taste (especially if you don't
like opera).
Dave Gooding
"sanghyun park" <spa...@ux12.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:InoJ9.4604$Vf3....@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu...
> Very often I encounter the name Bartok. Many of my favorite bands (like
Steven Sullivan
> I would try "Music for strings, percussion and celesta" which is fairly
> lightweight (for Bartock!). His real breakthrough was 'Bluebeard's Castle'
> which is fantastic but defintely an acquired taste (especially if you don't
> like opera).
Bluebeard came a couple of decades before MfSP&C. I think the latter is far more
of a 'breakthrough' than the former.
--
-S.
"Because I hate you." -- Mr. Tinkles
Alex Temple
was, if I remember correctly, the first time he really rejected
Romanticism. (Not that he didn't come back to it later!) Remarkably
innovative work, too -- polymodality in 1908!
Then there was all that stuff from 1926 -- first Piano Concerto, Piano
Sonata, Out of Doors Suite... another breakthrough, in that his music
finally became "AMAZING OH MY GOD HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE" rather than
merely "fucking awesome."
--
Alex Temple
Steven Sullivan
> Steven Sullivan wrote:
>>
>> david.gooding1 <david.g...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> > I would try "Music for strings, percussion and celesta" which is fairly
>> > lightweight (for Bartock!). His real breakthrough was 'Bluebeard's Castle'
>> > which is fantastic but defintely an acquired taste (especially if you don't
>> > like opera).
>>
>> Bluebeard came a couple of decades before MfSP&C. I think the latter is far
>> more of a 'breakthrough' than the former.
>>
> You could argue that the real "breakthrough" is the 14 Bagatelles, which
> was, if I remember correctly, the first time he really rejected
> Romanticism. (Not that he didn't come back to it later!) Remarkably
> innovative work, too -- polymodality in 1908!
IIRC 'Out of Doors' was considered something of a breakthrough, perhaps
his first composition of 'night music'?
I need to reread that Bartok biography...it's been years.
> Then there was all that stuff from 1926 -- first Piano Concerto, Piano
> Sonata, Out of Doors Suite... another breakthrough, in that his music
> finally became "AMAZING OH MY GOD HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE" rather than
> merely "fucking awesome."
Agreed.
Alex Temple
>
[a lot of stuff in this thread]
Incidentally, we seem to have /identical/ taste in Bartók's music. Weird.
Alex Temple
>
> I need to reread that Bartok biography...it's been years.
Halsey Stevens?
bringoutyourdead
> year old's tail chimes in...
>
> enlighten us oh aged wise one! ;-P
Age is hardly a relevant point here. After all, a 23 year old could run
circles around most of us if he's majored in music. I've seen Bartok refered
to both as a modernist or as a composer who used modern devices, but being
influenced by impressionism no more makes him an impressionist than his folk
influences makes him a folk artist.
Robert Carlberg
>more makes him an impressionist than
>his folk influences makes him a folk
> artist.
Kittens born in the oven are not muffins.
cap...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Wow - to hell with that Biota thing from a while back - THAT'S what I
want on a t-shirt!!!
J.B.L.
>3rd and 4th string quartets
I still hear more Schoenberg than Bartok in UZ; Art Zoyd is closer to Bartok.
NP: Nicholas Lens - Flamma Flamma (The Fire Requiem)
"By itself the instrument is nothing...until you add the human factor."
L Perez
but they still taste great!
cap...@hotmail.com
>> Kittens born in the oven are not muffins.
>
>but they still taste great!
YES! That's what can be on the back side of the shirt...
Alex Temple
>
> >I suspect a UZ fan would see the most direct similarity would be with the
> >3rd and 4th string quartets
>
> I still hear more Schoenberg than Bartok in UZ;
Like what Schoenberg pieces specifically?
Alex Temple
I thought the other side should be the cover of <185>.
Steven Sullivan
> Steven Sullivan wrote:
>>
>> I need to reread that Bartok biography...it's been years.
> Halsey Stevens?
Don't recall --it's a bible-thick paperback edition, on my bookshelf
somewhere.
Zero the Hero
>
> but they still taste great!
My God, you *are* Victor!
0
Steven Sullivan
>>I suspect a UZ fan would see the most direct similarity would be with the
>>3rd and 4th string quartets
> I still hear more Schoenberg than Bartok in UZ; Art Zoyd is closer to Bartok.
I was listening to the first track off 'Heresie' a few days ago ; it
had soem Bartokian flavors, and reminded me of parts of the 'Divertimento
for Strings' , for example (the middle movement).
J.B.L.
> "J.B.L." wrote:
> > I still hear more Schoenberg than Bartok in UZ;
>
> Like what Schoenberg pieces specifically?
Quite a few; right off the top of my head, the 5 Orchestral Pieces,
Serenade (despite the voice), Accompaniment to a Cinematographic
Scene.
Alex Temple
Interesting: of these, I'm only familiar with the 5 Orchestral Pieces
(which sounds nothing like UZ to my ears, except that they're both
dissonant). I'm always glad to hear more free-atonal-period Schoenberg,
though, so care to point me at some good performances?