Expressionistic Music & Impressionistic Music Questions
Ron Morsillo
Could somebody describe for me the terms "expressionistic
music" and
"impressionistic music"? Also, what style of music are they? Classical?
Electronic?
Or are they styles of music unto themselves?
Thanks in advance.
Pat M.
Your Name Here
>terms "expressionistic music" and
>"impressionistic music"?
Well L Perez will tell you all labels are bullshit(!), but there is a
legitimate style of Classical called "Impressionist." It follows on the
Impressionist painters like Degas, Monet & Renoir and usually includes such
composers as Debussy, Delius, Ravel, Bax, Respighi, Poulenc, Ketelby, Grofe,
sometimes Mussorgsky, Sibelius, Vaughan Williams, Smetana, etc. These
composers are known for their "tone poems" which rely less on melodies than
shifting tonalities in the orchestra. Sibelius' "Finlandia" is perhaps the
purest form of this style.
In my own cataloging of my record collection, I have used the same term to
describe some electronic music which follows the same aesthetic.
"Expressionistic" is not a valid (recognized) style as far as I know, although
I have seen it used to describe music which "expresses emotions".
magnus
"Your Name Here" <rcar...@aol.comma.dot> skrev i melding
news:20030406110202...@mb-ch.aol.com...
> "Expressionistic" is not a valid (recognized) style as far as I know,
although
> I have seen it used to describe music which "expresses emotions".
Don't confuse art-terms (as in painting-art) with musical-terms.
-magnus bruheim
Chris Bekhuis
rcar...@aol.comma.dot says...
> >Could somebody describe for me the
> >terms "expressionistic music" and
> >"impressionistic music"?
>
> Well L Perez will tell you all labels are bullshit(!), but there is a
> legitimate style of Classical called "Impressionist." It follows on the
> Impressionist painters like Degas, Monet & Renoir and usually includes such
> composers as Debussy, Delius, Ravel, Bax, Respighi, Poulenc, Ketelby, Grofe,
> sometimes Mussorgsky, Sibelius, Vaughan Williams, Smetana, etc. These
> composers are known for their "tone poems" which rely less on melodies than
> shifting tonalities in the orchestra. Sibelius' "Finlandia" is perhaps the
> purest form of this style.
Is it? I would reckon pieces like Debussy's Nocturnes or even better his
Prelude a l'apres-midi un faune are way better examples of this
particular musical style. And then of course Frederick Delius' string
pieces like The Walk To The Paradise Garden or On Hearing The First
Cuckoo In Spring.
--
Chris Bekhuis
www.progwereld.org
the all Dutch site on progressive rock / music
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Your Name Here
>Prelude a l'apres-midi un faune are way better examples of this
>particular musical style. And then of course Frederick Delius' string
>pieces like The Walk To The Paradise Garden or On Hearing The First
>Cuckoo In Spring.
All good examples, along with Vaughan Williams' "The Lark Ascending" and
Ketelby's "In A Chinese Temple Garden."
Garth Wallace
I seem to recall seeing "expressionist" used as a name for a musical
style (some subset of 20th century classical), but I'll be damned if I
can recall the composers listed.
I've seen composers like John Cage and Morton Feldman occasionally
referred to as "abstract expressionist". It seems fitting, somehow.
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J.B.L.
>Dear readers,
> Could somebody describe for me the terms "expressionistic
>music" and
>"impressionistic music"? Also, what style of music are they?
IMPRESSIONISM
In both the graphic arts and music, the goal of “impressionism” was to
portray the artist’s “first impressions” of a subject, and to portray the
“continuous change” in the appearance of things.
Center of Impressionist Music: France
Leading exponents of the style: Claude Debussy and Maurice Ravel
musical characteristics of Impressionism:
1) unresolved dissonances
2) use of scales other than major & minor (whole tone scales, medieval modes,
pentatonic scales)
3) “ambiguous tonality” – hard to tell what key it’s in
4) influence of non-western music
Impressionist music shared the following qualities with Romantic music:
the use of program music
nature subjects
lyrical melodies
EXPRESSIONISM
In both the graphic arts and music, the goal of “expressionism” was to
communicate the composer’s (or the dramatic character’s) deep emotions and
feelings in an intense or extreme way.
Center of Expressionist Music: Germany
Leading Composers: Arnold Schoenberg, Alban Berg
musical characteristics of Expressionism:
1) extremes in the use of harmonic dissonance—expressing maximum tension
2) angular melodies and wide leaps—NOT lyrical
3) the use of instruments and voices in extreme registers (playing very high
notes or very low notes)
IMPRESSIONISTS depict the outer world, while EXPRESSIONISTS depict the inner
nature.
"The tongue is located mere inches from the brain, yet it behaves as if it were
in another county."
Alex Temple
>
> >Could somebody describe for me the
> >terms "expressionistic music" and
> >"impressionistic music"?
>
> Well L Perez will tell you all labels are bullshit(!), but there is a
> legitimate style of Classical called "Impressionist." It follows on the
> Impressionist painters like Degas, Monet & Renoir and usually includes such
> composers as Debussy, Delius, Ravel, Bax, Respighi, Poulenc, Ketelby, Grofe,
> sometimes Mussorgsky, Sibelius, Vaughan Williams, Smetana, etc.
What a weirdly diverse group of composers. Debussy and Ravel are
certainly considered impressionist, but Poulenc was a member of Les Six,
who were adamantly opposed to "feminine" blurriness in music.
Mussorgsky was a Russian late Romantic (admittedly with some modernist
tendencies, but hell, you could say the same of Rimsky), and Respighi is
generally seen as a neoclassicist of some sort.
A more accurate term for most of this crowd would be "early modernists"
(though the subsequent generation of High Modernists from Schoenberg on
would dismiss them as "late Romantics").
> These
> composers are known for their "tone poems" which rely less on melodies than
> shifting tonalities in the orchestra.
Although your actual description applies well to what's generally
regarded as impressionist music, the tone poem was created by Richard
Strauss. Anyone who calls him an "impressionist" has a screw loose or
has never heard any. (Actually, around Elektra he even tends more
towards /ex/pressionism...)
--
Alex Temple
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http://www.isomerica.net/~electricwalrus
"Memes don't exist. Tell your friends."
Alex Temple
>
[some stuff]
This is more or less right on. However, a few nitpicky details...
> IMPRESSIONISM
>
> In both the graphic arts and music, the goal of “impressionismâ€* was to
> portray the artist’s “first impressionsâ€* of a subject, and to portray the
> “continuous changeâ€* in the appearance of things.
In fact, "impressionist" music is a bit of a misnomer; Debussy's major
influence from another art form was not impressionist painting, but
symbolist literature. In fact, "L'Après-Midi d'un Faune" is a piece of
writing (I can't remember if it's poetry or prose) by Stephan Mallarmé.
It's certainly possible to draw connections between Debussy and Monet
(not so much the other impressionist painters), such as the predominance
of blurry rather than crisp timbres, the references to the activities of
the French leisure class ("Voiles"), and a degree of exoticism
("Pagodes"). But the connection is often quite overplayed.
I also don't think it's accurate to refer to "continuous change" in
Debussy, since much of his music is extremely static (though you do
/sometimes/ get continuous timbral change).
> Impressionist music shared the following qualities with Romantic music:
> the use of program music
> nature subjects
> lyrical melodies
This is oversimplifying. There was a powerful strain in Romantic music
that objected fervently to program music, on the grounds that the only
true way to appreciate music in the most abstract, "transcendental"
sense. Viz. Eduard Hanslick's statement that "music is sounding forms
in motion." Furthermore, a lot of impressionist music is minimally
melodic: the textures are lush, and the harmony at least vaguely tonal
(which is why the music sounds "pretty" to ears accustomed to late
19th-century styles), but long flowing melodies are often replaced by
fragmentary motifs or blurred chord complexes.
>
> EXPRESSIONISM
> In both the graphic arts and music, the goal of “expressionismâ€* was to
> communicate the composer’s (or the dramatic character’s) deep emotions and
> feelings in an intense or extreme way.
>
> Center of Expressionist Music: Germany
> Leading Composers: Arnold Schoenberg, Alban Berg
But note that this only applies to their output from their "free atonal"
periods, i.e. before the invention of the 12-tone system. Serialism is
far too orderly to get across the kind of visceral ANGST that these
composers were going for.
There's an interesting book about Expressionism in music, whose author
and title I've unfortunately forgotten, that also discusses such works
as the Rite of Spring, some early Prokofiev, Bartók's Miraculous
Mandarin and Hindemith's Kammermusik #1. This is obviously a somewhat
more expanded usage, but it seems to pinpoint an impulse towards
tortured anarchy that more or less receded once neoclassicism set in
after WWI.
> IMPRESSIONISTS depict the outer world, while EXPRESSIONISTS depict the inner
> nature.
And specifically the most horrifying, tormented aspects thereof: hence
Schoenberg addressing death and fear in "Erwartung," and nightmare,
paranoia and self-mortification in "Pierrot Lunaire." Freud was big.
Alex Temple
>
> I've seen composers like John Cage and Morton Feldman occasionally
> referred to as "abstract expressionist". It seems fitting, somehow.
Hardly! Abstract expressionist painters (think Pollock) fling paint on
the canvas with an enormous ferocity, while Cage's and Feldman's music
is calm sometimes to the point of being soporific. A more apt
comparison might be to minimalist painting, especially in light of
Feldman's piece "Rothko Chapel."
DTohir
>legitimate style of Classical called "Impressionist."
Perhaps, though many, many musicologists dismiss it as a meaningless
catagorization.
> It follows on the
>Impressionist painters like Degas, Monet & Renoir and usually includes such
>composers as Debussy, Delius, Ravel, Bax, Respighi, Poulenc, Ketelby, Grofe,
>sometimes Mussorgsky, Sibelius, Vaughan Williams, Smetana, etc. These
>composers are known for their "tone poems" which rely less on melodies than
>shifting tonalities in the orchestra. Sibelius' "Finlandia" is perhaps the
>purest form of this style.
>
Gotta say, I've never heard Bax, Poulenc, Ketelby, Grofe, Mussorgsky, Sibelius,
Vaughan Williams, or Smetana ever referred to as impressionists.
>
>"Expressionistic" is not a valid (recognized) style as far as I know,
>although
>I have seen it used to describe music which "expresses emotions".
Never caught on as a term as much as "Impressionism" to be sure. Both are
attempts to link music with visual art movements& both miss the mark, afaic.
Your Name Here
Yeah well, all labels are bullshit. I never took any classes so everything I
say is suspect.
Best you remember that!
Garth Wallace
> Garth Wallace wrote:
>
>>I've seen composers like John Cage and Morton Feldman occasionally
>>referred to as "abstract expressionist". It seems fitting, somehow.
>
>
> Hardly! Abstract expressionist painters (think Pollock) fling paint on
> the canvas with an enormous ferocity, while Cage's and Feldman's music
> is calm sometimes to the point of being soporific. A more apt
> comparison might be to minimalist painting, especially in light of
> Feldman's piece "Rothko Chapel."
I was thinking more in terms of the role of random chance, and the
avoidance of formal structures.
Your Name Here
>avoidance of formal structures.
I prefer the term aleatory for those.
Alex Temple
>
> Alex Temple wrote:
> > Garth Wallace wrote:
> >
> >>I've seen composers like John Cage and Morton Feldman occasionally
> >>referred to as "abstract expressionist". It seems fitting, somehow.
> >
> >
> > Hardly! Abstract expressionist painters (think Pollock) fling paint on
> > the canvas with an enormous ferocity, while Cage's and Feldman's music
> > is calm sometimes to the point of being soporific. A more apt
> > comparison might be to minimalist painting, especially in light of
> > Feldman's piece "Rothko Chapel."
>
> I was thinking more in terms of the role of random chance, and the
> avoidance of formal structures.
OK, there's something to that.
Garth Wallace
True, aleatory is a more descriptive term. I'm just saying that calling
them "abstract impressionist" isn't complete gibberish. ;)