wierd cults at phish shows?
Cleeetus Gazebo
last 2 years at least.
They tend to prey on lonely, angry young males wandering the lots.
You, too, can end up with a crew-cut and dirty fatigues, digging through
Dumpsters!
Jeff Q.
monk dude that comes up asking you to buy his books, but what sucks is they
stick it in your hand and then tells you this bullshit, then says "all we're
asking for is a small donation of a $5 or $10 bucks......" Thst shit's
just annoying i think, but it's not like they want me to warship satan, so i
guess it's not that harmful.
Nitin wrote in message <3A306CF7...@excite.com>...
>are there wierd religious/pseudo-religious cults that try to recruit at
>phish shows/lots? never encountered them myself but i think i've seen an
>offhand mention or two on the newsgroups...just curious, any info would
>be appreciated...
>
>nitin,
>who thinks you all should form a cult around him (nitinism)
Canarsie
would be in your face just as you stepped out of the car -- EVERY
TIME. No matter what concert you were going to in the summer.
"Hey how ya doing today?" (sticks book in my hand) "Blabbity-blah, we'd
like you to have this free book, blabbity blabbity, just a small
donation..."
OR
"Hey how ya doing today? I'm a afraid I have to write you up a ticket
for having too much fun..."
You know these people. Alot of the hippies think it's funny or cute
and they will sit and LISTEN to these people and give them money. I've
been known to throw those books very far. Don't ask me for money for
any of your stupid ass religions. Now when we see them coming we just
yell at them before they say a word. They won't bother you. Just
say "get outta here I don't want your fucking book!"
The funny part is: Say this and watch how mad they get. I mean REAL
pissed and mean. They yell back at you and call you names sometimes.
I get satisfaction from this. These nice benevolent religious phonies
all angry and screaming back at me.
My friend and I have an ongoing joke ever since college. Anytime you
ever see some kind of complimentary bible offer, or some weird cultish
literature offer advertised on TV (like CJC) we call up and order the
shit to be delivered at each other's houses. This is a great practical
joke. Sometimes they get off with just recieving the weird cultish
shit in the mail with a telephone follow-up. But SOMETIMES these
people will deliver the stuff in person, if they have some kind of
local chapter, and harass the shit out of you. One time I had these
two men in suits showing up on the porch of my friend's house every day
for a week as she was walking home from class in college. She had to
walk right by every time and pretend she didn't live there, and wait
for them to go away. Finally she had to sit through their speech and
explain that it was a joke and she didn't want the bible. Recently, I
received the "Jesus" video in the mail, and several follow-up phone
calls. That one was just classic. Hilarious.
In article <90r55r$56g$1...@newsmonger.rutgers.edu>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Burndawg
Nitin <niti...@excite.com> wrote:
> are there wierd religious/pseudo-religious cults that try to recruit
at
> phish shows/lots? never encountered them myself but i think i've seen
an
> offhand mention or two on the newsgroups...just curious, any info
would
> be appreciated...
>
> nitin,
> who thinks you all should form a cult around him (nitinism)
>
Well there's the 12 trbes....they are usually around handing out
literature and stuff...then you have the hare krishnas who will try to
sell you a book, or two or three...there is also the Phellowship, the
christian organization which many pholks consider to be cultish. I've
seen them all and let me tell you if you just tell them you aren't
interested they will leave you alone...most of the time...the ones that
don't get it...well sometimes you have to let them know in no uncertain
terms that you aren't interested.
live and let live,
Burndawg
--
"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too,
While you point your finger someone else is judging you."
Robert Nesta Marley
"Shut your Bonghole Hippy." Bender
Abe Phroman
Andrew Cavagnet
in oswego i ended up in the buss , just sorta wandered in there
i dunno not my kinda crowd
Save Me Jebus!
Nitin <niti...@excite.com> wrote:
> are there wierd religious/pseudo-religious cults that try to recruit
at
> phish shows/lots? never encountered them myself but i think i've seen
an
> offhand mention or two on the newsgroups...just curious, any info
would
> be appreciated...
>
I call them Deadheads ;p Seriouslah, the Krishnas are about the
closest thing. I did see some of those guys with the weird beards and
old non-descript clothes that are part of this one religious group at
the SCI Ashville show, but who knows, they might have just been hippies.
Peace,
Jeff
--
"You told me once that you always liked cleaning my kitchen
wearing nothing but a tool belt and a 9 iron, toothpick, and a paper
clip" - Alan Yang
Del Schmidt
lucky i was baked and for some reason interested in what he had to say...the
next day i took one look at the book and threw it in the trash
--
"If it feels good, we shake"
Love, Peace, and Happiness,
-Delpot
Jeff Q. wrote in message <90r55r$56g$1...@newsmonger.rutgers.edu>...
Save Me Jebus!
Save Me Jebus! <je...@savemejebus.net> wrote:
>
> I did see some of those guys with the weird big ass beards and
> old non-descript vagrant style clothes that are part of this one
religious group at
> the SCI Ashville show, but who knows, they might have just been
hippies.
>
wait, maybe that was ZZ-Top, whatever...
-Jeff
The 420 Cowboy
> phish shows/lots? never encountered them myself but i think i've seen an
> offhand mention or two on the newsgroups...just curious, any info would
> be appreciated...
I'm also curious - do these cult members actually make it into the shows?
Or are they just parking lot recruiters?
bophefus
drugs but you some of there people awfully tripped out which makes me think
they use drugs for other purposes maybe to control people. there bad people.
ive read up on them its scary shit i wish could remember the link if anyone
knows please post it again. then theres those monks that wont leave you
alone always pushin there books on you sometimes im not sure whos more
annoying some kid beggin you to by his shitty little sticker for the change
in your pocket or being bothered by a whole pack of monks.
Nitin wrote:
> are there wierd religious/pseudo-religious cults that try to recruit at
> phish shows/lots? never encountered them myself but i think i've seen an
> offhand mention or two on the newsgroups...just curious, any info would
> be appreciated...
>
The Dude
the Hassidic jews and goes "Hey, ZZTop! You guys rock!" And the Hassid
goes "Vell, maybe just a little..."
Ahhh Simpsons, when will your antics ever end?
The Dude,
who regrets that Simpsons is only on twice a week in England
Moonphish
standing in the middle of one of the main roads back to the campsites and
going off about being "saved" and how we all need to get together and look
to the lord......it was very strange....but then again it could have all
been a bad dream.....ahhhh... :-)
-Moon ><}}}*>
Nitin <niti...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3A306CF7...@excite.com...
Judith A.Fremy
guy came up to my friend and said that to him and put 12 stickers in his
hands (GD, Phish, Allman Bros., etc. All cool stickers) and asked for only
$5. It seemed like a great deal, so I gave him the $ and he left. I
wouldn't have done that, but it WAS a good deal!
Dawn(saffro...@hotmail.com)
Phish8585
with those guys. This isn't a story, but the main cult at Phish shows is "the
twelve tribes." Basically, they try to act like their jewish by getting jewish
people to join. There not just at Phish shows, but they try to pretend they are
spirtually and figure they can get people at our shows to join. They don't let
me people take medecine, or talk to their families, the whole bit. There was a
story years back when they were on Dead tour, and they wouldn't let a guy take
medecine for diabetes, becuase they had to heal him "with their minds." Sadly,
the guy died. They do all this crazy stuff, then try to pretend their in the
Phish/Dead scene, buy handing fliers with "Fire On The Mountain" or "Birds Of A
Feather" written on the cover. They really are a bunch of awful brainwashed
people. I really hate that they infultrate Phish shows. If they ever come up to
me , I always say "Get away from me, I'm not part of your cult." or something
to that extent.
But anway, a few funny stories having to do with cults and religious zombies at
shows. At Furthur Festival back in 98', there were these Hurre (sp?)
Chrishnas(sp?) at the show and cme up to me and my friends saying all this
weird crap. Asked me if I was Jewish, then asked all these questions about it,
then invited all of us to a free vegeterian dinner at their house in Boston.
Finally they gave us books, and asked for a small donation. My friends said
they had no money, leaving me to deal with these guys. I said the same thing,
but then they said "we'll take anything, doesn't matter how small," so I said
"i'll give you a dime," and the guy screamed at me and said "give me back the
damn book, and get away." It was soooo funny.
Another funny story. At all the Boston shows (Phil, Phil & Friends, Furthur),
there is always the same three guys wearing the "Jesus saves sign," and saying
"you'll go to hell, if your not with us." The same old crap. So I'm at Furthur
(a different year), with my friend who is an aurthodox Jew, and they get in the
biggest arguement, I was on the street laughing, it was so funny. Especially to
see these guys get so visibily pissed off. It was perfect!
-jonah
playajam
make you give him a "donation" for it. luckily for them i'm nice about it and
just say i don't have extra money to spend. and those damn 12 tribe things are
weird. one time after a show at a friends house i was reading through one of
their handouts and my one friend came up to me and was like "what the hell are
you doing...don't read that shit" haha. and then i saw these monk lookin
kids...musta been 18 or so. they seemed like they freshly joined this thing and
they were worshiping or something in the parking lot. kinda freaky...i don't
correlate religious worship and a phish lot. ah well.
peace,
mike
****************************************************************
http://db.etree.org/playajam
http://www.thehungersite.com
Cheryl Gaster
At Deer Creek (?- I think it could have been any thing from Star Lake > DC)
I by accidentally grabbed one of the 12 tribes books (I swear officer I
thought it was STTA). The woman handing it out gave me such a wired look
because I came over to her and took it. Later reading thru it (hey, it's
reading material and pretty funny {or scary} if you are totally
anti-religous) I cam across an article written by an "ex-feminist" who
blamed not "Surrendering to the will of the men in her life" for all of her
problems. As the son of a staunch feminist and a feminist myself I thought
that that article was pretty funny. (and if true, pretty wrong).
I have also talked to orthodox Jews (I'm Jewish as well) at the Further Fest
'98 @ Meadowlands. (Any religion bugs the shite out of me including "my
own") and I've also seen the "Gefilte Fish" tour bus at a lot of shows.
(Man, if it wasn't for that group, it would make a great T-shirt to sell to
fellow Jews on Tour)
Jeremiah
NFT...@hotmail.com
types... They are very legitamite. They aren't out to convert, merely
educate... which is something that needs to be done... to many damn
anti-semites in this country.
Check out their website... http://www.gefiltefish.org
Peace,
b'Shalom,
-Jacob / Ya'akov
In article <B690BD11.1E4C7%cga...@on.aibn.com>,
Cheryl Gaster
group) than this education is not for anti-Semites, but for 'wayward Jews',
i.e. to try to bring Jews that aren't religious into the fold. Sorta like
all the religious groups that find men in all sorts of places and asks them
if they want to be in a minyian. (Sp?). If I am correct than why is this
night...(ahem) group any different?
Jeremiah
NFT...@hotmail.com
think... tell me if I'm wrong though...) in the airports and such and
asking them if they know the weeks parsha, and if they've laid teffilin
today, and if they want to be part of a minyan, etc... is the
Lubavitch. The Lubavitch also run the Chabad houses. They are THE
ONLY jews who prostelytize... and they only prostelytize to other
Jews. All the same, they weird me out. They try to get any Jew they
can find to be ba'al teshuva... meaning to return to the commandments
and become ultra-orthodox. The gefiltefish group is NOT out to get
anyone to change their practices. They only want people (Jews and
Gentiles) to THINK about their OWN religion and spirituality.
To quote an article about Rav Shmuel Skaist and the gefiltefish group:
"I'm not here to proselytize," Rabbi Skaist
tells me as we walk through the campgrounds.
"If some kid decided to become religious
after a two-hour discussion with me, I'd
tell them they need psychological help."
That makes him different from some of the
other religious groups on the lot. A hundred
feet from where the Gefiltefish RV is parked,
a van flies a large flag with a Star of David
and the logo "Twelve Tribes of Israel." The
flag belongs to a Jews for Jesus outfit, a
growing sect of Protestantism often accused
of being a cult. (Orthodox Jewish groups have
formed the organization Jews for Jews to combat
their evangelical message.) Standing in front
of the flag, a vaguely hippie-looking woman
is preaching as if she were standing on a
soapbox. The crowd on the strip walks by, paying
no attention.
Check out an article that the Rav wrote for jambands.com at
http://jambands.com/june99/features/rabbi.html
To answer your quesition:
If I am correct than why is this
> night...(ahem) group any different?
This group is different because they aren't out to prostelytize, but to
educate. Most of the Jews on tour, and there are a TON of them, don't
know a whole lot about their cultural heritage. The group is out to
educate them on this and show that what it is, and question them about
their beliefs... more importantly, get them to question their OWN
beliefs, and advance their own spirituality. They don't want every jew
on the lot to become orthodox, they just want them to feel comfortable
exploring their cultural spirituality in a familiar setting. This is
QUITE different from other groups like 12 tribes whose reason for being
there is to get an individual to convert... 12 tribes and other groups
with similar intention are there for their OWN benefit... whereas
gefiltefish is there for the world's benefit.
Peace,
b'Shalom,
-Jacob / Ya'akov
In article <B690E385.1E4FC%cga...@on.aibn.com>,
Save Me Jebus!
xc1...@aol.community (playajam) wrote:
> and those damn 12 tribe things are
> weird.
Are these the guys with the big beards that wear like real drab
clothing and stuff? I had see a show about these guys before, like a
20/20 type show, and I've seen these guys at lots of shows, not just
Phish.
-Jeff
--
"You told me once that you always liked cleaning my kitchen
wearing nothing but a tool belt and a 9 iron, toothpick, and a paper
clip" - Alan Yang
http://www.savemejebus.net and http://www.prankmonkey.com
MCGDaySunshine
there, I got so many religious handouts. It was quite funny. I am Jewish by
lineage, but don't practice or believe in any specific organized religion.
However, I did get something from the Jews for Jesus group there. It was
bashing Bush which I found funny. There were diagrams with trees and apples
saying, "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree." However, for my Phish
content, the only religious cult I have seen at a show was the Hippies for God
bus, and I was not approached by them.
Maggie
NFT...@hotmail.com
Only groups I've seen at the phish shows, that have actually approached
me, were the hare krishnas and the "I have to write you a ticket for
having to much fun, here have a smiley sticker..." folks... that's
about it though...
I wonder if these zealot cults actually have tix and go in to the
concerts, or if they're just rats that follow us around and leech off
us...
Peace,
b'Shalom,
-Jacob
In article <20010121211616...@ng-ca1.aol.com>,
Cheryl Gaster
sometimes} stated that I'm always right.
;o)
Leib Meadvin
i am a chassid of the Lubavitcher Rebbe
it would be nice if you didn't discuss things which you are misinformed
about
especially because there may be no one in the group to correct the info
the goal of Lubavitch is not to turn anyone into an ultraorthodox jew
the Lubavitchers you encounter are only trying to get a person to do a
single mitzvah( a good deed)
this may be a physical act or a spiritual act
because the rabbis teach us that each act can make the difference inh
turning over the whole world to good
think about the book the hundreth monkey l'havdil
now although i haven't done phish tour
i saw almost 300 dead shows
and in theory the scene was based on the idea of turning the world over too
good
from what i read on rmp thats the goal here as well
so it shouldn't weird you out
that someone without some kynd dreds and phatty patch pants can have the
same ideals as you
you're running and you're running and you're running away
but you can't run away from yourself
NFT...@hotmail.com
just doesn't seem to work out that way too often... ;o}
In article <B6910D63.1E524%cga...@on.aibn.com>,
NFT...@hotmail.com
just Christians who prostelytize to Jews by claiming to BE Jews... just
that they believe that Jesus was the savior.
They are very odd... to be quite polite.
Peace,
b'Shalom,
-Jacob / Ya'akov
In article <94g450$gek$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Save Me Jebus! <je...@savemejebus.net> wrote:
Canarsie
> there is always the same three guys wearing the "Jesus saves sign,"
and saying
> "you'll go to hell, if your not with us."
Two funny tshirts I've seen:
JESUS SAVES...passes to buddha...shoots...SCORES!
JESUS SAVES...passes to Jordan, who JAMS it home!!!!
I love that.
Save Me Jebus!
Canarsie <cana...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > there is always the same three guys wearing the "Jesus saves sign,"
> and saying
> > "you'll go to hell, if your not with us."
>
> Two funny tshirts I've seen:
>
> JESUS SAVES...passes to buddha...shoots...SCORES!
>
> JESUS SAVES...passes to Jordan, who JAMS it home!!!!
>
There really needs to be a hispanic hockey player named Jesus'
something so he can pass to Miroslav Satan...that would be an
announcer's dream...Jesus to Satan and he scores!!!
-Jeff
--
"You told me once that you always liked cleaning my kitchen
wearing nothing but a tool belt and a 9 iron, toothpick, and a paper
clip" - Alan Yang
http://www.savemejebus.net and http://www.prankmonkey.com
Rice Milk Breath
Adam
NFT...@hotmail.com
informed about the movement. You cannot say that the Chabad house is
out to do something other than get Liberal Jews to practice *your*
way. This is nothing other than prostelyzation. I may lay tefillin,
or I may not. I may wear tzitzit and a kippah, or I may not. I may
say habrachot hashacor every morning, or I may not... WHATEVER I do,
it's up to me to do it my way... and I have always felt that by
approaching a Jew in an airport and pressuring them, you are infringing
upon their right to find their own sprituality. This path of finding
your own way is what I believe Judaism is all about in the first
place. These are merely my personal beliefs, as well as those of many
others in the Jewish world. I feel that the Ba'al Shem Tov's original
intentions have been twisted around absurdly, but that's just my
personal opinion.
DO NOT tell me what I am misinformed about. You don't know me, or what
type of synagogue I was raised in or go to.
I don't feel that this is the correct forum in which to discuss the
philosophy behind how you believe that laying teffilin etc... will aid
in making the world a better place... that's simply a mere disagreement
of beliefs which would be better left to "agree to disagree" terms.
As for your statement:
> so it shouldn't weird you out
> that someone without some kynd dreds and phatty patch pants can have
the
> same ideals as you
Actually, I have "kynd dreds and phatty patch pants" as well as a
kippah and tzitzit. I don't think that being "weird[ed] out" is the
issue here. I think the issue is pressuring someone to practice *your
way* rather than allowing them to discover their own way through a self-
led spiritual journey.
> you're running and you're running and you're running away
> but you can't run away from yourself
>
Could you please explain what you mean by this?
b'Shalom,
-Jacob / Ya'akov
PS I appologize if I come of as insulting here. That is certainly not
my intent. While I may take issue with, and strongly disagree with
many of the practices of the Lubavitch movement, it is still very
comforting for me to find a chassidic individual on RMP. Good to know
there are a few out there!!! Baruch Hashem!
In article <3A6BCDE4...@home.com>,
NFT...@hotmail.com
part of my own spiritual journey... (I personally am more inclined to
agree with many of their interpretations of the torah than the
interpretations of the rabbis) I've never come across them as a group
from Jamaica... although the Rasta do believe in Jesus, so it would
make sense that it would be easy for a messianic Jewish group to use
that name to obscure their intentions...
Could you tell me/us more about the group from Jamaica? Or where I
could find more info about them? I appreciate your input here!
Peace,
b'Shalom,
-Jacob / Ya'akov
In article <3A6C537E...@hotmail.com>,
N. Hayman
the 12 Tribes of Israel, a fairly ancient order of judaic black-skinned
people who claim to be of a fairly direct lineage to x000 year old jewish
people of Ethiopia. They are related to the Rastafarians in that the two
cultures feed off each other in the islands (Jamaica) where they are
strongest. Read Tim White's biography of Bob Marley for some good
information about all of that.
Then there are the Tribes of Israel that drive their big old tour
bus around and help people out with First Aid, etc.... Those guys are part
of a perhaps 20 year old order from upstate New York.
Three things I find unsettling are:
1) Folks who run with these guys seem to really detach themselves from
their "former" lives.
2) They self-educate their children with a certain diligence - a cool
thing on its own but see #3
3) They truly believe homosexuality, alternative lifestyles, etc.... is an
abomination, that the world is on an apocyliptic brink, and that they are
accumulating one of the 12 lost tribes of Israel, that will meet in some
sort of completion beyond the edge of existence.
I have had some really good onversations with these guys though, they
tend to be pretty open to critism, and have been a long-standing (and
helpful) presence in the Dead scene.
praise yashua,
N
p.s. great movie - "Holy Smoke" with Harvey Keitel.
NFT...@hotmail.com
origin... I have done a good deal of research on afro-judaic studies
and the connections between Ethiopia, the rest of Africa, the Islands,
and the Jewish/Hebrew people. Check out
http://debate.uvm.edu/dreadlibrary/thayer.html for a good description
of the Rasta 12 Tribes group
As for the *other* 12 Tribes group... check out
http://www.twelvetribes.com and
http://www.rickross.com/groups/tribes.html
Peace,
b'Shalom,
-Jacob / Ya'akov
In article <Pine.A41.4.21.0101221055270.81866-
100...@dante12.u.washington.edu>,
Burndawg
NFT...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Now don't throw Gefiltefish in with any group of weird psycho cult
> types... They are very legitamite. They aren't out to convert,
merely
> educate... which is something that needs to be done... to many damn
> anti-semites in this country.
>
> Check out their website... http://www.gefiltefish.org
>
> Peace,
>
> b'Shalom,
>
> -Jacob / Ya'akov
Most cults don't claim to preach...they "Speak the truth" and try
to "educate" (read that make you think what they think) people
to "save" them.
You call it education, I can in turn call it brainwashing. The issue is
perception, and when one is dealing with a subject such as religion
things get ugly since everyone knows the *answer* and in turn knows
that everyone else who doesn't think or act the same way doesn't *know
the answer*...I've spent a long time studying the religions of the
world (hell that's my farking degree) and how they operate. If you want
to see buddhism as the truth and the be all nad end all of your
existence then that's that, if you don't you don't. My point here is
that even saying that a certain group is out to *educate* others, they
walk a very fine line between holding true to their original purpose
and falling into the ego driven crusade to *change the world*. Arguing
with someone who doesn't hold the same opinion as you is fruitless, nad
will only lead to more dissention.
Live and let live,
Burndawg
--
"The road of life is rocky, and you may stumble too,
While you point your finger someone else is judging you."
Robert Nesta Marley
"You can't put bread in a cold oven." Isaac Hayes on the art of making
love and writing music.
"It's like a journey: Some parts are warm and fuzzy and some parts are
uncomfortable. It's all about being uncomfortably warm and fuzzy." DJ
Hell.
"Shut your bonghole hippy." Bender.
"I think I have issues, but I don't know the publication." Some random
Pig Pen looking du
NFT...@hotmail.com
'Cult' set to serve Olympic masses
The Courier-Mail, September 5, 2000
A fundamentalist cult will provide catering at Sydney 2000 Olympic
equestrian events. This is even though it was banned in Britain after
distributing anti-Semitic literature.
It was reported on 4 September 2000 that the leader of the Twelve
Tribes, also known as the Messianic Communities, is American Elbert
Spriggs.
Spriggs supports black slavery, racial segregation, describes Jews as
murderers, and uses passages from the Bible to justify beating children
with rods.
The cult has a significant money-making arm around the world, which
includes such ventures as candle-making, painting, plumbing and the
catering business that will serve at the Games venue, The Common Ground
Cafe.
Australian Jewish groups are outraged that the Sydney Organising
Committee for the Olympic Games and its caterer, Eurest Australia, know
little about the cult's background.
SOCOG says action will be taken against the group if it distributes
literature at any events.
This was from the site I had a link to in the last post...
N. Hayman
Then again, maybe they are the same people, if this site is on the money.
No doubt its a wierd world!
N
N. Hayman
groups) I mentioned in the previous post have anything to do with
this......
N
On Mon, 22 Jan 2001 NFT...@hotmail.com wrote:
Rice Milk Breath
anyway, the rasta 12 tribes I was talking about I read about in the book Soul Rebels. It was pretty good. If you are interested in rastafarianism it is a good book, although it portrays the 12 tribes in sort of a negative light as compared to the rural rasta in Jamaica. From only really reading about them in this book, I agree, as the 12 tribes are more of a political group, when the actual faith is about not participating in such groups.
Cheryl Gaster
>
> p.s. great movie - "Holy Smoke" with Harvey Keitel.
just sunk into stupidity.
Jeremiah
Slipknot!
may see at fests like Berkfest or the moe.down. At moe.down their
stand was set up along side an "Open Forum" which included a big round
table w/ stools. The only thing, the Twelve Tribes people had at least
three heads there at all times. If you tried to say anything that
conflicted with their beliefs, you were double and triple teamed by
them and basically forced to leave the table. Not very open... peace,
Brett
--
Please reply to br...@twcny.rr.com ****
I don't read the Deja account*******
N. Hayman
> Really? I thought it rather sucked. The beginning had promise but than it
> just sunk into stupidity.
> Jeremiah
>
is Keitel's character sinking into depravity, while the victim becomes
something of the hero, sort of like the two passed each other on the road
from/to insanity.
N
Cheryl Gaster
but heroic? (except at the sucky, sucky end)
Jeremiah
> From: "N. Hayman" <ni...@u.washington.edu>
> Organization: University of Washington
> Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:54:32 -0800
> Subject: Re: wierd cults at phish shows?
>
Moonphish
"N. Hayman" <ni...@u.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.A41.4.21.010122...@dante12.u.washington.edu...
>
> p.s. great movie - "Holy Smoke" with Harvey Keitel.
>
>
you either like it or ya' don't type movies. :-)
-Moon ><}}}*>
Moonphish
"Moonphish" <moon_...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:94j4rl$sl1$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
Whoops! I just realized I had the wrong movie.....I was thinking you meant
"Smoke" because Harvey Keitel is in that one as well. I've never heard of
"Holy Smoke." Ahhh well...
-Moon ><}}}*>
N. Hayman
I grew up, - many a high school morning spent getting prepped for the day
on a stoop looking at 3rd St. and 7th Ave (where the dude was taking those
photos).
over and out from this weird culty conversation
N
N. Hayman
RMP for the week and get back to my work, does anybody else find it
humorous to discuss "wierd cults at Phish shows")
I agree about Holy Smoke seeming really really stupid - but it stuck with
me and here is why.... OK - everybody in this woman's family was freaked,
but then in that comic Aussie-Kiwi way. Yet, by the end, we realize this
woman was looking for something real when she was in India, and her guru's
cult gave it to her - streamlined with a wow-touch on the head. She is a
victim however you cut it, even if she seems a better human being than
just about anybody around her. Harvey is called in, and though deeply
strange in a cheezy sort of way, with the scene by the candle light it is
clear that he is able to engage in cult-type methods to
"deprogram" "victims". It slowly becomes apparent that Harvey is a loose
cannon, and ultimately himself falls into a mentally jelly-state. The
thing is though, it all seems stupid, over-the-top and icky, but when it
comes down to it, Harvey hallucinates this Vishnu goddess strolling
towards him and only the woman can save him from his own cult-programming.
The thing is, at the very very end, the woman is free of her cult-baggage,
yet walking into India with her mother, *still searching* for whatever it
is that will make her complete, but knowing that there is a way to do it
on her own terms, without selling her entire life to a guru.
That is how i see it anyway. To me, it was almost as if if the movie
wasn't so stupid, satirish, and yes, disturbing in a shallow way, it
wouldn't have made its point. I can see how alot of folks might not like
it though, and apolagize for giving it all away in a newsgroup
post!. - btw, my girlfriend liked it because there was full frontal nudity
of a woman who was shaped like a real woman, and whose character was
developed with some depth!
N
Cheryl Gaster
ending, which I had liked and was just thinking about the last scene with
the 2 of them.
Oh well,
Jeremiah
> From: "N. Hayman" <ni...@u.washington.edu>
> Organization: University of Washington
> Newsgroups: rec.music.phish