my eye injury, glowstick wars, and lawsuits
Larry1972
moment, please put yourself in my shoes. I'm not some 12 year old kid as some
have accused me of being. I'm divorced, 27, and I have a 3 year old son that
means the world to me. Everything I do, I do for him, so he can have a better
life than I did. I work as a pilot for a small charter service out of New York,
or should I say worked.
After getting hit in the eye with a glowstick at Hampton,I was taken to the
hospital by freinds. (one personin this newsgroup went so far as to criticize
me for seeking medical attention). After 6 hours, a specialist was called in.I
lost 80% of the vision in my right eye due to retinal damage from blunt trauma.
In other words, the glowstick that hit me in the eye had done permanent
damage.
As you may guess, this has made it impossible for me to work. I'm not wealthy,
most of my money goes to pay for child suport and alimony.
By now you can figure out what type of position I am in. Its very easy to call
me names and say that its my fault. Some have said that I should bring an
umbrella to the show, a good suggestion for the future.
When I stated that I had filed a lawsuit against Hampton Coloseum and Dionysien
Productions it brought me flames and insults. I dont care, I have a son to
think about.
To all of those people who attacked me verbally, I pose one question: Who is
responible for my inuries? How can I be expected to protect myself with an
umbrella or other device without any advance warning? All I wanted to do was
see a Phish show. What did I do wrong? I was standing on the floor, enjoying
the show, and then my life was ruined. Again, who is responsible? Who will
make sure that my son has food to eat now that I cant work?
Nobody, thats who. That is why I'm suing. If you feel I'm going after the
wrong party, then suggest a new course of action before you attack me. Heck,
I'd be willing to drop the lawsuit if just one person would come forward and
take responisbility. If your willing to testify in court that the person
sitting next to you through a glow stick onto the floor at Hampton, I wont have
to sue Hampton of DP.
Well, thats my side of it. Think of me what you will, I dont care. If your
life was suddenly turned upside down and inside out, you might agree.
GlideII
jason
--
.-~*~-.,.-~*~-.,.-~*~-.,.-~*~-.,.-~*~.,
"A friend is always good to have, but a lover's kiss is like
angels raining down on me..." - D. Matthews
"Drum is like learning to ride bicycle built by Dr. Seuss." - FISHMAN
"Each prophet comes presently to identify himself with his thought,
and to esteem his hat and shoes sacred." - R. Emerson
*~-.,.-~*~-.,.-~*~-.,.-~*~-.,.-~*~-.,.-~*
Mule Panic
every stick that gets tossed has to land somewhere. Permanent eye damage is not
something anyone should have to endure as a result of going to a show. Glow
rings in '99.
Namwen11
you. I have to disclaim the position I'm going to take because I don't know
what it's like to be in your shoes, but I'm going to remain firm anyway.
Unfortuately, bad things happen. There is not always someone to blame. Just
like when good things happen, there's not always someone to take credit (though
a lot of people will try to as opposed to no one taking blame for bad things,
of course). When you go to an event such as a concert or sporting event you
are taking a risk. If you go to a baseball game, and are hit in the head with
a foul ball, it's obviously a terrible thing, but it's nobody's fault. You
took the calculated risk of attending that event. I wish you nothing but the
best in dealing with your situation. I'm sorry if this sounds cold, but its
the way I feel. Take Care,
Chris
ajab...@my-dejanews.com
This guy is probably gonna win his lawsuit, because Phish has encouraged glow
stick wars - from the stage at two shows, by Kuroda dimming the lights at
every show a war happens, and by using the glow stick photo on their
Christmas cards last year. Phish has done NOTHING to help prevent them. I
knew these lawsuits were gonna start coming. It was a no brainer.
Phish and Dionysian are such brilliant musicians, artists, and business
people you would think they would have thought of this ahead of time. Then
again, I'm sure their insurance company will take care of all damages.
There will be more lawsuits like this, I assure you.
later,
......AJ......
In article <19990106131036...@ng102.aol.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Forbin5240
>rings in '99.
That's what I'm saying. Next show I go to I'll bring as many as I can for
everybody. If I see anybody with a glowstick(s) I'll offer to trade my ring
for the stick and simply get rid of it.
Let's go.
Stay kind,
Andy
Tapelist: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Disco/4508/index.html
Florida Phans Check out: http://www.acceleration.net/arg/flamphish
"If I were near you, I wouldn't be far from you" - Easy Bag
chil...@my-dejanews.com
Accidents happen you A-Hole. Why do you blame anyone?? That's the problem
with this country, everyone wants someone else to pay. Have you ever, ever,
ever thrown anything at a show? What was the promoter or the venue supposed
to do, they can't hold everybodies hand at a show you jerk off!! Your the
reason our courts are so crowded with frivilous law suits, our insurance and
ticket prices are so high. Become a flight attendent of get retrained in
something else and quit your whining. Oh, by the way, my wife's an attorney,
she'll represent you for only 20% of what you get <g>
Steve Z
unintended, and far-reaching consequences. If you are successful in your lawsuit,
a simple warning on the ticket stub placed there by the concert venue will not be
enough to legally absolve the venue from this kind of liablity. The only way the
venue will be able to protect itself in the future is to frisk every individual ,
and search every last pocket looking for potential hazards. I dont want that to
happen, and I dont think anyone else does either. Like it or not, lawsuits very
frequently ruin a good thing for everyone. Again, I'm very sorry, but I really
dont think going after the venue is the right thing to do. It really isnt their
fault that you were (regretably) injured, and I fear that suing them may have an
undesirable effect on the rest of us... though I wouldn't shed a tear if I never
saw another glowstick war again.
JerDewitt
Forget about the frustrated, hateful people around here.
What happened to you sucks for the entire community.
It's about as bad as karma can get at a show. A fluke accident like
that seems to me to be a bad sign for the vibe of our scene.
I would have liked to have believed that the positive energy of a show
could provide some sort of karmic umbrella to protect us all from harm,
but I guess we must have slipped.
I'm going to take a break today to say a prayer for you and for all of
us.
-Jeremy
Mark Choh
anything, especially Phish. It's not their fault, just as it's not really
anyone's except the person who threw that glowstick and maybe you for not
keeping your head up when a barrage of glowsticks is being thrown (god
knows I have when a war breaks out). You cannot hold Dionysian or Phish
or the Hampton Coliseum responsible for other people's actions...b/c
it's impossible for them to keep an eye on 20,000 people at the same
time. On the back of your ticket, at least on the back of my ticketmaster
tickets, it says...
"WARNING: PUCKS, BALLS, AND OTHER OBJECTS FLYING INTO SPECTATOR AREA CAN
CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY..."
"Holder voluntarily assumes all risks and danger including, but not
limited to, personal injury and other hazards incidental to, arising from
or related in any way to the game, event, etc."
It sucks that you're having a hard time working now....you can probably
get some sort of disability payments or something like that, but to get
money from Phish for something like that is ridiculous. They're just four
guys playing music, just as you're one guy listening to it.
-Mark Choh
http://www.tufts.edu/~mchoh
mc...@emerald.tufts.edu
"One with the raging winds
Alive on the highest tides
My ship at sail could climb a mountain
Ride it high up to the sky"
-The Disco Biscuits
Vidcam9
might. finally open their mouths - at shows - on the glowstick issue
and the issue would be solved
mkcop...@hotmail.com
forever !
mike
BenDRoss
>Honestly, that sucks. I'm sorry. But suing anyone isn't going to solve
>anything,
Yes it will. This guy can't work anymore. He got completely fucked over. If
he doesn't get any money out of this how do you expect him to feed his son?
------/Ben\-------
--------/Ross\---------
"Vegetarians who eat animal crackers are hypocrites!!!"
-my friend Josh
"Big ten-kegger at the frat.....Or watching Jerry shake his fat"
-Ernest G. Anastasio III
Michael Chavkin
get banned from their favorite venue. I'm sure Phish can afford a couple million
to stay in good standing with the various venues around the nation
NScott5126
>Well, thats my side of it. Think of me what you will, I dont care. If your
>life was suddenly turned upside down and inside out, you might agree.
>
I can't believe people have actually attacked you for filing a lawsuit! In
today's "sue-happy" world full of dime store lawyers and 2-bit plaintiffs, this
is the best reason for a lawsuit I have heard in ages. Cases like yours are
the entire reason we have civil courts. Good look brother! I wish you the
best!
Peace'nLove,
Big Nate
Acupath
are more concerned about the venue. WAKE UP PEOPLE, THIS IS WHY THEY PAY FOR
LIABILITY INSURANCE, WHEN HE WINS (and he probably will) THIS WILL NOT AFFECT
PHISH IN ANY WAY. I doubt the band is even aware of this situation, the
insurance companyies lawyersw always handle this kind of shit. Besides, it
will take years before its finally settled, so don't worry about next year at
hampton. Do you honestly think this is the first guy to sue a band or the
venue they performed at for injuries? Ask Adam Katz's family.
And as for what it says on the back of a ticket stub about assuming risk, I'm
no lawyer and even I can tell you that it holds no real legal standing. Not
unless its made clear with a signiture that the ticketholder understands all of
the rules.
This guy is doing the smart thing, he's looking out for his son. If you want
to send him the money to raise his kid and put a roof over his head, then I'm
sure he would drop his lawsuit. Until then, how about showing some compassion,
instead of attacking the victim.
James Noble
I'm not going to call you any names, except maybe George or Alawishes,
but I was hit and had to get stitches, but Health Insurance made it only
cost $8. As for work, not everything requires two eyes. My mother is a
teacher, doing quite well. She was born with sight in only one eye.
She made it through her entire life with one eye. Life is what you make
it, given the hand you're dealt. I say that sucks, but complaining is
not going to do anything. Suing is only going to piss people off. I
wish you luck. Make your life count.
mkcop...@hotmail.com
Dave
Couldn't you have just said, "Next time wear goggles."?
Evan Hartnett
look up your original post.
-----------------------------
I have Hampton tapes from IFO the SB more options
Author: Larry1972
Email: larr...@aol.com
Date: 1998/11/24
Forums: rec.music.phish
more headers
author profile
view thread
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have Original DAT's of both Hampton shows stealth taped about 50
feet in front of the soundboard, right in the middle. If you were at
the show you may have noticed me with two little things sticking out
of my head. I'll be willing to give anybody digital clones of this
tape (or analog) if you can help me with 1 New Years Ticket, all i
need is one ticket. If you can hook me up with a ticket I'll also
provie you with a tape of the NYE show. I know this sounds like the
usual ticket grovel, but I'm willing to do almst anything for a NYE
ticket. If the tape isn't incentive enough I also have cash
to spend and I'm willing to pay above face value.
let me know if your interested
larr...@aol.com
-----------------------------------
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that most people who sustained an
eye injury as bad as yours would keep taping the show and then have
them up for trade a few days later. Also, if you're really trying to
save some cash why would you say you have cash to spend and you're
willing to pay above face for a NYE ticket?
-Evan
e_har...@hotmail.com
J. Francis
would be a mistake. Hampton Coliseum is responsible for you while you are on
the premises - legally. If I fall in the bathroom due to tons of piss on the
floor, I am going to sue. They were negligent in providing a safe
environment (wet slippery floor without warning). Phish isn't responsible
for the amount of fluid I consumed. So, alas, I don't think Phish will be
effected by this suit other than being very aware what could happen in other
cities with the glowsticks. You hear about a lot of things being cancelled
because the venue (and promoter don't forget) couldn't guarantee the peoples
safety. Happens all the time. Phish could keep on encouraging glowstick wars
as long as they aren't supplying them and really only the venue and promoter
are held responsible, meaning nobody would book Phish anymore.
Now that I've completely given my glowing endorsement to a lawsuit (yuk!),
anybody want to do CDR B&P for me?
Jim
James Noble wrote in message <3693D431...@oswego.edu>...
Vidcam9
not going to do anything. Suing is only going to piss people off.>>
Of course it's going to do something. The guy's going to get a minimum of a
few hundred grand
to live on and support his kid. All the power to him!
GnPhshn
anything, unless its something wrong with the building, I did not get to read
the original post but i am assuming it has something to do with glowstix, and
neither the band or venue are responsible for what happens with glow stix.
Stéfan Bourassa
the domain of newbies and wannabes. I would also like to express my
sympathy for the damage which you sustained, a sobbering turn of events
that should be noted by all the little shits at shows.
That being said however, it is my opinion that a lawsuit against a
particular venue will lead you nowhere. You knew or should have known
that little shits at Phish shows get all horny to throw things around,
glowsticks being a favorite projectile. You also know or should know
that glowsticks have the potential of causing injury when flung about as
they are... the potential for injury is one which is possible and maybe
even to be expected (especially since there are so many thrown around).
Therefore, by attending a Phish show, you implicitely accepted the risk
of injury (including serious eye injury), put simply ... you are shit
out of luck. I know that it really sucks to have that happen to you...
and it sucks even more that you have lost your earning power as a pilot
due to your injury, but a suit against the venue will be futile.
Good luck to you, and punch a tour scum kid for me.
P.Y.I.T.E.
--
MZ
Luis Arambul
hit sorry. But glowsticks are NOT intentionally part of a Phish
concert.
Steve Z
You are correct that this lawsuit will be covered by liability insurance, but the
venue and the promoters are the ones who pay that insurance. When claims are made
against an insurance policy, the natural result is increased premiums. If a venue
observes that a certain band and its followers place them at greater risk for being
sued, that venue will simply ban all future performances (has anyone seen a Phish
show at Red Rocks lately...? didnt think so). If venues start banning Phish from
playing due to increased risk/liability/insurance premiums, we'll all have to gain
a new appreciation for the Dave Matthews band (god help us). Although it is
admittedly naive to predict an end to Phish as we know it if this guy goes through
with his lawsuit, a series of such incidents could have disastrous consequences.
neca.com
posted around the venues...not alway conspicuous, but there nonetheless.
You really give up all rights to lawsuits when you have your ticket
ripped, or even when you drive onto the venue's property.
Unfortunately, people like you have abused the idea of the lawsuit
and it has become a joke. Grow up and take soem repsonsibility
for your own actions. If you fall on your ass on a wet floor, so what?
Come on man, grow up a bit.
later,
fta
"J. Francis" <jfra...@stratos.net> writes: > I have to say the guy with the lawsuit is 100% correct. If he didn't sue, it
Phil Fernandez
>with this country, everyone wants someone else to pay. Have you ever, ever,
>ever thrown anything at a show? What was the promoter or the venue
supposed
>to do, they can't hold everybodies hand at a show you jerk off!! Your the
>reason our courts are so crowded with frivilous law suits, our insurance
and
>ticket prices are so high. Become a flight attendent of get retrained in
>something else and quit your whining. Oh, by the way, my wife's an
attorney,
>she'll represent you for only 20% of what you get <g>
Intentionally throwing an object that can do serious damage is no accident.
This guy has been injured as a result. As for you wife, she's the reason
for the "frivilous" lawsuits. Lawyers always end up with more than the
injured victims. "Frivilous" lawsuits is what puts the food on your table,
pal. You should be the last person to bad mouth this poor soul. If this
had happened to you at a show, you would have sued everyone, and your lame
ass wife would probably lose the case for you. Maybe he can get "retrained"
as an attorney - it probably helps to be blind.
Wishing you were here to defend yourself...
Dan Mielcarz
larr...@aol.com (Larry1972) wrote:
>When I stated that I had filed a lawsuit against Hampton Coloseum and Dionysien
>Productions it brought me flames and insults. I dont care, I have a son to
>think about.
>To all of those people who attacked me verbally, I pose one question: Who is
>responible for my inuries? How can I be expected to protect myself with an
>umbrella or other device without any advance warning? All I wanted to do was
>see a Phish show. What did I do wrong? I was standing on the floor, enjoying
>the show, and then my life was ruined. Again, who is responsible? Who will
>make sure that my son has food to eat now that I cant work?
Frankly, I think that the venue does have a responsibility to ensure the
relative safety of the people inside, and the suit against them is
probably justified. Against Phish, however, he might have a tougher case.
FWIW, at least Chris Kuroda agrees with him and understands the potential
for injury:
"In an interview with Jeff Waful for Jambands.com, Chris Koruda voiced
support for rings versus sticks: "I think that the glow-rings, the kind
that fit together in the little plastic insert, theyąre great. They look
great flying around up there. They're not gonna hurt a fly. The thick,
plastic glow sticks are hurting lots of people in the crowd with serious
injuries requiring stitches. Some friends of mine, as a matter of fact
[have been injured]. There is no need to throw those. I mean, it looks
great and it looks cool and youąre at a concert, and itąs the heat of the
moment. I can understand why people do it, butŠ.. I donąt like the glow
sticks. Every time it starts, the first thing I tell my two guys is,
'everybody, watch your head; duck.' Weąre all looking out. Some people
really just whip them. I really have no tolerance for that. Youąre gonna
really hurt someone. Thatąs not the heat of the concert-moment getting to
you. Thatąs just a jerk whipping a glow stick. [When it first happened,
and at the Great Went, it] looked great, but you learn as time goes on. We
thought the glowstick thing was gonna be the greatest thing in the world
until we realized people were getting hurt. [At one time Trey said "get
more of those" but] Since then, I would say that they [the band] are a
little down on them. I think they feel the exact same way I do. Get
thousands and millions of those little ringed ones. Theyąre thin. They
couldnąt hurt a fly. Throw them around. Theyąll look amazing. "
This is from the Phish.Net FAQ page about glowsticks at
<http://www.phish.net/PhishFAQ/lglowrings.html> taken from the interview
as stated.
-Dan
--
Dan.Mi...@dartmouth.edu
<http://www.dartmouth.edu/~mielcarz/>
"Hello, my name is Dan Mielcarz. I sniff lots of glue."-phi...@aol.com
Jon McLennand
On 7 Jan 1999, Jsemmler wrote:
> > Yes it will. This guy can't work anymore.
> > He got completely fucked over. If he
> > doesn't get any money out of this how do
> > you expect him to feed his son?
>
> Just because you don't have eyesight that doesn't mean you can't make an honest
> decent living doing something else. He still has one good eye from what I've
> read.
>
Ah but Joby you forgot to mention the fact that he has been trained to be
a pilot. If your training in life has been to perform a specific job,
such as flying, and then you no longer have an opportunity to perform that
job, guess what, you've lost an entire lifetime of experience. You can't
just go out and find a job flying planes, you have to go for years of
training.
This guy is SOL when it comes to his profession. He's left with McDonalds
(not that severe but I'm trying to get a point across), or going back to
school. And how is he supposed to afford further training if he has no
money support, and then alimony and child support on top of that.
> While it is still a terribly tragic accident, a good lawyer could argue around
> the point and will find a way to win as this is by no means an open and shut
> case for the defendant. If he'd been to a show before then chances are he knew
> ahead of time one way or another that glowsticks would be thrown in the air and
> the chance of injury could occur.
>
So then what is he supposed to do, give up floor tickets, because people
are incompetent (my view on glowsticks revealed), and how is he supposed
to know that at that certain show there will be a glowstick war? Granted
they've been occuring with more frequency this year, starting with the
Island tour, but they didn't occur at everyshow I was at this year, in
fact only half, 7 of the 14. I thnk a greater chance of injury occurs
when sitting by some crazy dancer, oh say one with a cast for instance,
but once again that should not stop anyone from going to a show.
> There are many ways of looking at this and it just depends on if the judge is
> open minded or not. FWIW you can't protect people from themselves and if he
> knew going into a show that glowsticks could be thrown at him at any time then
> he put himself in his own dangerous spot. You can't sue someone for hitting
> you with a car if you're standing in the middle of the road.
>
But you could think of it that Dionysian and Hampton Coliseum knew of the
dangers involved in the show that would take place, and did nothing to
prevent that.
ever think of it that way?
food for thought,
Jon
OPc carini, halley's, tweeprise, 4/3/98
Tim Markham
>
> <<Therefore, by attending a Phish show, you implicitely accepted the risk
> of injury (including serious eye injury), put simply ... you are shit
> out of luck. >>
>
Yea, all of you folks who think that the fine print paragraph on the
back of the tickets (and the signs in the venue) will hold up in court
have been duped. The venue, the band and insurance companies put that
there to scare off people from suing when something like this happens.
It looks to me like it would've worked on about 80% of us too.
Unfortunatley this guy will in his suit and our ticket prices will go up
and Hampton will now enforce strip searches, well ok maybe not that bad.
peace,
Tim
POSTER
wrong.. ive been trying to tell you to use the glow necklaces for months
now.. the 6 inch glowsticks could really fuck someone up.. i wish i had
taken a picture of chaz with the blood running down his face at the
halloween show.. hit with a 6 inch glow stick.. i hate to say it but
even then the glowstick wars looked cool and we got off on them both
nights in vegas , from the stands and from the floor.. but the floor was
dangerous.. so in closing the necklaces are about the same cost wise ,
and they look even cooler .. you can stick em together to make one big
long one.. love for all. poster
Jsemmler
> He got completely fucked over. If he
> doesn't get any money out of this how do
> you expect him to feed his son?
Just because you don't have eyesight that doesn't mean you can't make an honest
decent living doing something else. He still has one good eye from what I've
read.
While it is still a terribly tragic accident, a good lawyer could argue around
the point and will find a way to win as this is by no means an open and shut
case for the defendant. If he'd been to a show before then chances are he knew
ahead of time one way or another that glowsticks would be thrown in the air and
the chance of injury could occur.
There are many ways of looking at this and it just depends on if the judge is
open minded or not. FWIW you can't protect people from themselves and if he
knew going into a show that glowsticks could be thrown at him at any time then
he put himself in his own dangerous spot. You can't sue someone for hitting
you with a car if you're standing in the middle of the road.
jjs
oPc: 12-28-98 Carini :o)
Vidcam9
Vidcam9
a pilot. If your training in life has been to perform a specific job,>>
Joby cannot relate to this because his training is in
assininity, something he could continue to practice even with no sense(s)
SCincident
sued all the time. You can get sued for anything these days no matter how much
precautions and warnings you give.
Epitone5
law suits, why we have insurance and the reason for ticket prices being high (i
think thaey are resonable by the way).
biotch
ilan
>Your the
>reason our courts are so crowded with frivilous law suits, our insurance and
>ticket prices are so high. Become a flight attendent of get retrained in
>something else and quit your whining. Oh, by the way, my wife's an attorney,
ilan bachrach
Epitone5
ilan
>and if Phish is banned from the Coliseum i would personaly hate you
>forever !
>
>mike
ilan bachrach
Moobob123
guy. just for one second, imagine the predicament these silly glow sticks have
gotten this man and his son into. not only does he have permanent eye damage
resulting from this increasily prevalent and indescribably idiotic trend, but
his ability to support his family has been taken away from him. here he is,
struggling to feed his son, and you're complaining about premiums and not being
able to see a concert? it takes a very selfish and unappreciative person to
exhibit the lack of perspective and sympathy for what this guy must be going
through. anyways, enough of my opinions for a while, i will now slowly sink
back into lurker mode. oh, before i get going, i feel the need to express my
opinion about this entire glow stick fiasco. and yes, it is now officially a
fiasco. it still baffles me that someone actually thought that throwing hard
sticks of plastic through the air in large amounts was, in fact, a reasonable
thing to do. it was only a matter of time before a serious injury like this
one would occur. please, for the sake of my cornea and everyone else's, let us
now officially declare 1999 the year of the glow ring.
peace, and good riddance to the glow stick,
dave a. heal
p.s. if you wish to register your complaints with the previous passage, please
refrain from the use of profanity and try to resist attacking whatever grammar
and/or spelling mistakes may exist.
J3st
I'm positive that if these people were injured with glowsticks, they would feel
very differently.
Jsemmler
> training is in assininity, something he could
> continue to practice even with no sense(s)
Did you go get the thesaurus for that one? You really do belong as a 4th grade
English teacher. As far as your attempted insult, since I consider your
opinion to be worth about one bucket of warm goat shit I'll refrain from
responding to how much of a schmuck you are. For the record that's spelled
S-C-H-M-U-C-K.
Are you sure you weren't the fat girl that sat behind me in Miss Hessler's 4th
grade English class? She had no friends cause she constantly isolated
everyone's faults due to the fact she was so insecure of her own. By the way,
bisciut bisciut bisciut bisciut bisciut bisciut bisciut bisciut bisciut
bisciut bisciut bisciut bisciut bisciut bisciut bisciut bisciut.....
jjs
oPc: 8-3-98 Ride Captain Ride :o)
Jsemmler
> has been trained to be a pilot. If your training in
> and then you no longer have an opportunity to
> perform that job, guess what, you've lost an entire
> lifetime of experience. You can't just go out and
> find a job flying planes, you have to go for years of
> training.
I agree with you that he more than likely is no longer going to be flying
planes. However, he hasn't lost any of the education/training that was given
to him which could lead him to other opportunites such as teaching, consulting,
etc....
A friend of mine was in a car accident that left him in a wheelchair. He was
at the top of his field before the accident and today he has gone on with his
life in the same field, be it in a different capacity, and still makes a
boatload of money. In all seriousness, the guy is an inspiration as to what
one human can be dealt with yet come out standing on his feet. I only wish
Larry the same luck.
> This guy is SOL when it comes to his profession. He's
> left with McDonalds (not that severe but I'm trying to
> get a point across), or going back to school. And how
> is he supposed to afford further training if he has no
> money support, and then alimony and child support
> on top of that.
I think this is a knee jerk reaction that all hope is lost. Granted the road
will be long and a pain in the ass but if he's in the top echelon of his
profession I would assume there will be other opportunites for him somewhere
down the road. McDonald's is a tad overdramticized aye JM?
> So then what is he supposed to do, give up floor tickets,
> because people are incompetent (my view on glowsticks
> revealed), and how is he supposed to know that at that
> certain show there will be a glowstick war?
By no means was I trying to justify the actions of anyone who throws a glow
stick in the arena. I was giving fuel to the arguement that a good lawyer has
plenty of avenues to choose in forming a defense. I'd bet a week's paycheck
this is settled out of court so the venue doesn't risk any bad publicity.
> But you could think of it that Dionysian and Hampton
> Coliseum knew of the dangers involved in the show
> that would take place, and did nothing to prevent that.
> ever think of it that way?
I'm sure that's the case. These types of "wars" have been going on for some
time now. I would say it's a safe bet that a multi-million dollar industry
such as "Phish, Inc." has a team of lawyers that are consistenty protecting the
band's best interest. It isn't a stretch to think that something like this has
happened before yet to my knowledge the band has yet to be successfully sued.
If the band had been successfully sued, IMHO there would be an intense crack
down on security at every single venue so no glowsticks whatsoever would be
allowed in.
> food for thought,
> Jon
You college kids-- always doing it quicker, smarter and faster than us old
folks :o)
jjs
oPc: 4-3-98 Loving Cup > Antelope :o)
Poster4629
biggest kick ass job, to be able to fly. But his livelihood has been taken
away, because some people got stupid. I don't always agree, I thought at one
time that glowsticks had their place, but not anymore. It used to be fun, and
then you only had to worry about Hood. But then it has spread to anything
where the lights get a bit dark. They have become nothing more than an
annoyanve and a distraction. You should have heard the people talk on the
train back to jersey. People are actually proud of whipping them at the stage
and the band. And boy do I feel for the monitor board guy. He's fortunate
that he hasn't been injured. Just because it looks cool, doesn't mean it's ok
all the time. I could live with it for hood, MAYBE, BUT not every show. And
this guy should win his suit. There are now warnings as far as I know to watch
out for hard glowing objects traveling at high speeds at a phish show. It
isn't a known thing unless you are more than a passing fan. The arena is
responsible for the safety of it's occupants beyond their own means, and it is
the promoter's responsibility as well. As far as the band I'm not sure they
should be held responsible as well. their only job is to play music, nothing
esle, but in suits at shows the band is always included. It's a shame, but
maybe if people would just listen to the music and get over their infantile
urge to throw things we wouldn't be discussing this. Would we?
Butley
********************************************
~(_8(|) - "Or what...You'll release the dogs, or the bees, or the dogs with
bees in their mouth and when they bark they shoot bees at you? Well go ahead,
do your worst"
Butley, aka the chocolate monkey....
neca.com
Come on now, folks, safety first. Just trying to lighten up this
thread a bit. Sue me if you are offended.
later
fta
poste...@aol.com (Poster4629) writes: > I do feel bad for this guy. I mean he was a PILOT. I think this has to be the
Tyler Woyiwada
Steve Z wrote:
> I feel really bad for you too, but I fear that a lawsuit may have a number of
> unintended, and far-reaching consequences. If you are successful in your lawsuit,
> a simple warning on the ticket stub placed there by the concert venue will not be
> enough to legally absolve the venue from this kind of liablity. The only way the
> venue will be able to protect itself in the future is to frisk every individual ,
> and search every last pocket looking for potential hazards. I dont want that to
> happen, and I dont think anyone else does either. Like it or not, lawsuits very
> frequently ruin a good thing for everyone.
And some good things ruin people's lives.
> Again, I'm very sorry, but I really
> dont think going after the venue is the right thing to do. It really isnt their
> fault that you were (regretably) injured, and I fear that suing them may have an
> undesirable effect on the rest of us... though I wouldn't shed a tear if I never
> saw another glowstick war again.
Boy, do I love this. Yeah, it's all love and fun until there are consequences.
Suddenly it seems that something might(gasp) interfere with your good time. Wouldn't
that be a terrible injustice for you to be searched at MSG! I mean, becoming half
blind is one thing, but the inconvenience done to you as a result of making sure that
other people don't get hurt is really terrible. The funny thing is, I bet you think
that you're a really caring guy. Ah, the 'heads of hypocrisy!
Styler
Ellis Godard
On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 20:09:00 -0800 (PST), im...@webtv.net (POSTER)
posted to rec.music.phish:
Tyler Woyiwada
Phil Fernandez wrote:
> >Accidents happen you A-Hole. Why do you blame anyone?? That's the problem
> >with this country, everyone wants someone else to pay. Have you ever, ever,
> >ever thrown anything at a show? What was the promoter or the venue
> supposed
> >to do, they can't hold everybodies hand at a show you jerk off!! Your the
> >reason our courts are so crowded with frivilous law suits, our insurance
> and
> >ticket prices are so high. Become a flight attendent of get retrained in
> >something else and quit your whining. Oh, by the way, my wife's an
> attorney,
> >she'll represent you for only 20% of what you get <g>
>
> Intentionally throwing an object that can do serious damage is no accident.
> This guy has been injured as a result. As for you wife, she's the reason
> for the "frivilous" lawsuits. Lawyers always end up with more than the
> injured victims. "Frivilous" lawsuits is what puts the food on your table,
> pal. You should be the last person to bad mouth this poor soul. If this
> had happened to you at a show, you would have sued everyone, and your lame
> ass wife would probably lose the case for you. Maybe he can get "retrained"
> as an attorney - it probably helps to be blind.
>
> Wishing you were here to defend yourself...
Heh. My sentiments exactly.
Styler
Tyler Woyiwada
Vidcam9 wrote:
Seriously. Although it is amusing to see the lawyer wannabes come out of the
woodwork. Go ahead people, act out your courtroom dramas but realize that it
doesn't really work like you saw in the movies.
Styler
Tyler Woyiwada
James Noble wrote:
> I'm not going to call you any names, except maybe George or Alawishes,
> but I was hit and had to get stitches, but Health Insurance made it only
> cost $8. As for work, not everything requires two eyes. My mother is a
> teacher, doing quite well. She was born with sight in only one eye.
> She made it through her entire life with one eye. Life is what you make
> it, given the hand you're dealt. I say that sucks, but complaining is
> not going to do anything. Suing is only going to piss people off. I
> wish you luck. Make your life count.
You obviously have no conception of adult life.
Tyler Woyiwada
Actually, the reason that there are so many lawsuits in America is because there
are so many people doing stupid, dangerous things. This poor guy is an effect, not
a cause.
Styler
> i think you are absolutly correct. this man is the sole reason for frivalous
> law suits, why we have insurance and the reason for ticket prices being high (i
> think thaey are resonable by the way).
>
> biotch
> ilan
>
> >Your the
> >reason our courts are so crowded with frivilous law suits, our insurance and
> >ticket prices are so high. Become a flight attendent of get retrained in
> >something else and quit your whining. Oh, by the way, my wife's an attorney,
>
> ilan bachrach
Tyler Woyiwada
Luis Arambul wrote:
> Baseballs are part of the game ,pucks are part of the game ,if you get
> hit sorry. But glowsticks are NOT intentionally part of a Phish
> concert.
An irrelevant metaphor.
Styler
Jon McLennand
> > Ah but Joby you forgot to mention the fact that he
> > has been trained to be a pilot. If your training in
> > life has been to perform a specific job, such as flying,
> > and then you no longer have an opportunity to
> > perform that job, guess what, you've lost an entire
> > lifetime of experience. You can't just go out and
> > find a job flying planes, you have to go for years of
> > training.
>
> I agree with you that he more than likely is no longer going to be flying
> planes. However, he hasn't lost any of the education/training that was given
> to him which could lead him to other opportunites such as teaching, consulting,
> etc....
>
(I thought I'd leave the whole message in because if you're not concerned
with the threat you wouldn'thave bothered anyways)
Point taken, obviously I'm unaware of this individuals past when it comes
to education and the quality thereof, he could be extremely qualified for
other positinos, but I figure this was his trained profession.
> A friend of mine was in a car accident that left him in a wheelchair. He was
> at the top of his field before the accident and today he has gone on with his
> life in the same field, be it in a different capacity, and still makes a
> boatload of money. In all seriousness, the guy is an inspiration as to what
> one human can be dealt with yet come out standing on his feet. I only wish
> Larry the same luck.
>
Wait a second, are you talking about the same guy Grind was dedicated
to?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Sorry, I just kind of felt like saying that. I do think
that the boatload of money comment is a little bit unnecessary though eh?
I wish Larry the same luck as well.
You know know, I remember someone posting last year a fake story about a
very similar event to screw with people, and I remember thinking, man I
can't wait until it happens, just to show these people what could really
happen. Or wait let me slightly rephrase that, I can't wait until it
happens, except for the poor unfortunate soul who is victimized by
people's neglect to realize the potential consequences of their actions.
> > This guy is SOL when it comes to his profession. He's
> > left with McDonalds (not that severe but I'm trying to
> > get a point across), or going back to school. And how
> > is he supposed to afford further training if he has no
> > money support, and then alimony and child support
> > on top of that.
>
> I think this is a knee jerk reaction that all hope is lost. Granted the road
> will be long and a pain in the ass but if he's in the top echelon of his
> profession I would assume there will be other opportunites for him somewhere
> down the road. McDonald's is a tad overdramticized aye JM?
>
I love overdramaticization (and I didn't even use a thesaurus on that one
:) I do hope that other opportunities arrive, otherwise this will be a
very sad chapter in the annals of Phishtory.
> > So then what is he supposed to do, give up floor tickets,
> > because people are incompetent (my view on glowsticks
> > revealed), and how is he supposed to know that at that
> > certain show there will be a glowstick war?
>
> By no means was I trying to justify the actions of anyone who throws a glow
> stick in the arena. I was giving fuel to the arguement that a good lawyer has
> plenty of avenues to choose in forming a defense. I'd bet a week's paycheck
> this is settled out of court so the venue doesn't risk any bad publicity.
>
Is that one of your paycheks against one of mine? I get a lot of laons,
but could always use the gas money :) No I'd go even farther to guarantee
that this one is settled out of court. Not to say that out of court
settlements are bad publicity, but yes they taint reputations much less.
> > But you could think of it that Dionysian and Hampton
> > Coliseum knew of the dangers involved in the show
> > that would take place, and did nothing to prevent that.
> > ever think of it that way?
>
> I'm sure that's the case. These types of "wars" have been going on for some
> time now. I would say it's a safe bet that a multi-million dollar industry
> such as "Phish, Inc." has a team of lawyers that are consistenty protecting the
> band's best interest. It isn't a stretch to think that something like this has
> happened before yet to my knowledge the band has yet to be successfully sued.
> If the band had been successfully sued, IMHO there would be an intense crack
> down on security at every single venue so no glowsticks whatsoever would be
> allowed in.
Okay I'm trying to reach into my memory for examples of such suits, I can
only think of a couple mosh pit/stage diving incidents, which involved
either death or paralyzation. I can't remember the outcomes though. I'm
pretty sure they involved out of court settlements with both the band and
the venue.
>
> > food for thought,
> > Jon
>
> You college kids-- always doing it quicker, smarter and faster than us old
> folks :o)
>
That's what we pay the big bucks for :) It's either that or the skipping
80% of class, drinking too much beer on tuesdays, or the crazy sex orgies
(one of those isn't true)
a light snack for thought,
Jon
> oPc: 4-3-98 Loving Cup > Antelope :o)
and how could I resist, to finish off the set
oPc: 4/3/98 Roses are Free> Piper (anyone who's been reading this thread,
think we liked this set)
personal to Joby- got me a new deck, I can't remember if I told you, keep
me posted about Tod's, I'm very psyched, and one other thing, LoS in
Champaign 2/2/99
Check out my DAT list @ http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~mclennan/
SuzieGreenberg
gets their eye poked out."
Lofting projectiles into a sea of human flesh is bound to end up in a
catastrophe sooner or later. Experiencing a few "trails" off a lightstick is
so superficial when compared to increasing the probability of blinding an
individual for life. Accept some personal responsibility and throw your trip
toys in the privacy of your own home, not in the hockey arena.
Besides, the novelty of it is getting old.
Mule Panic wrote in message
<19990106134949...@ng-fp1.aol.com>...
>I think Larry makes some good points. Glowstick wars look cool and all, but
>every stick that gets tossed has to land somewhere. Permanent eye damage is
not
>something anyone should have to endure as a result of going to a show. Glow
>rings in '99.
Chris Frisby
on the floor and, although I caught a couple of glowsticks, I did get hit in the
head with one. There wasn't any permanent damage as in your case, and I have
wondered before if anybody has gotten truly hurt by one, but I still like them. I
hate it when people throw them on stage or into the tapers' section, but I like
the crowd interaction. I think your situation is similar to that of sommebody
who gets hit by a foul ball at a baseball game. You don't expect it to happen,
but it can be extremely dangerous when it does. I wish you the best of luck in the
future (and Phish shows that are to come if you haven't sworn against them), but
don't hold it against the people who like glowstick wars. Yes, I wish more people
would get the glow rings that are much safer, but I know that nobody wanted that
to happen to another phan. Hopefully this won't keep the Hampton execs from
letting Phish do a 3-night stand fall of '99.
chil...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <19990106131036...@ng102.aol.com>,
> larr...@aol.com (Larry1972) wrote:
> > Many people have outright attacked me and have called me names. For just one
> > moment, please put yourself in my shoes. I'm not some 12 year old kid as some
> > have accused me of being. I'm divorced, 27, and I have a 3 year old son that
> > means the world to me. Everything I do, I do for him, so he can have a better
> > life than I did. I work as a pilot for a small charter service out of New
> York,
> > or should I say worked.
> > After getting hit in the eye with a glowstick at Hampton,I was taken to the
> > hospital by freinds. (one personin this newsgroup went so far as to criticize
> > me for seeking medical attention). After 6 hours, a specialist was called
> in.I
> > lost 80% of the vision in my right eye due to retinal damage from blunt
> trauma.
> > In other words, the glowstick that hit me in the eye had done permanent
> > damage.
> > As you may guess, this has made it impossible for me to work. I'm not
> wealthy,
> > most of my money goes to pay for child suport and alimony.
> > By now you can figure out what type of position I am in. Its very easy to call
> > me names and say that its my fault. Some have said that I should bring an
> > umbrella to the show, a good suggestion for the future.
> > When I stated that I had filed a lawsuit against Hampton Coloseum and
> Dionysien
> > Productions it brought me flames and insults. I dont care, I have a son to
> > think about.
> > To all of those people who attacked me verbally, I pose one question: Who is
> > responible for my inuries? How can I be expected to protect myself with an
> > umbrella or other device without any advance warning? All I wanted to do was
> > see a Phish show. What did I do wrong? I was standing on the floor, enjoying
> > the show, and then my life was ruined. Again, who is responsible? Who will
> > make sure that my son has food to eat now that I cant work?
> > Nobody, thats who. That is why I'm suing. If you feel I'm going after the
> > wrong party, then suggest a new course of action before you attack me. Heck,
> > I'd be willing to drop the lawsuit if just one person would come forward and
> > take responisbility. If your willing to testify in court that the person
> > sitting next to you through a glow stick onto the floor at Hampton, I wont
> have
> > to sue Hampton of DP.
> > Well, thats my side of it. Think of me what you will, I dont care. If your
> > life was suddenly turned upside down and inside out, you might agree.
> >
>
> Accidents happen you A-Hole. Why do you blame anyone?? That's the problem
> with this country, everyone wants someone else to pay. Have you ever, ever,
> ever thrown anything at a show? What was the promoter or the venue supposed
> to do, they can't hold everybodies hand at a show you jerk off!! Your the
> reason our courts are so crowded with frivilous law suits, our insurance and
> ticket prices are so high. Become a flight attendent of get retrained in
> something else and quit your whining. Oh, by the way, my wife's an attorney,
> she'll represent you for only 20% of what you get <g>
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Mark Choh
talking about how they feed off the audience and everything, and then
people started throwing glowsticks, I'm sure most of the people weren't
thinking, goddamn I hope I don't lose an eye. And those that were
thinking that probably had enough sense to duck. But most people were
thinking, "this is one of the most amazing things that I've ever
experienced at a Phish show" I know I was thinking that. Now, yes, the
wars have gone a bit overboard (except for the Wheel and the MSG
glowsnakes, and maybe a few other exceptions), or maybe not overboard, but
simply trying to recreate a moment that will never happen again. And for
me, it's not that I don't feel for this guy. It sucks what happened to
him, and I will think twice before ever throwing a glowstick again. But
Phish, nor Dionsysian, nor the Hampton Coliseum should not be responsible,
b/c they had no control over it. Outside of strip-searching everyone to
prevent the complete influx of glowsticks into the arena, there is little
they could do. Even at MSG< where tons of security guards were going as
far as kicking people out of the show for throwing glowsticks (with no
wwarnings at all, from what I hear), there were still hundreds of them
being thrown. What happened to this guy is horrible, but
a) none of the above mentioned parties should be blamed, and thus a
lawsuit should not be filed
b) most of the lawsuits you hear about in this country are ridiculous, and
this just adds to the idea that when something that sucks happens, you can
make a pretty dollar off of it...
c) This guy is not hopeless. Apparently, he is still has sight in one
eye, and 20% of his sight in the other, and while he will not be able to
continue his job as a pilot, there are *plenty* of other jobs that he can
take, including many that he could probably get through his pilot job,
that would allow him to keep working. In fact, as something like a
consultant, he would have a job that would require him to travel less,
which may allow him to spend more time with his son, which would allow him
to better raise him.
My two cents,
Mark
-Mark Choh
http://www.tufts.edu/~mchoh
mc...@emerald.tufts.edu
"One with the raging winds
Alive on the highest tides
My ship at sail could climb a mountain
Ride it high up to the sky"
-The Disco Biscuits
Mitch Jareo
I was always under the impression that there was no way for anyone to
restrict anyone's right to sue. I even think that it is a right guaranteed
by common law and maybe the constitution.
I think, it is really up to the courts to interpret any limitation of
liability imposed upon an individual. If this were not the case, the band
could chuck lawn darts into the crowd and it would be okay; so long as the
liability limitations were correctly worded.
Just my $0.02, of course. I don't even know why it was brought up. I would
of thought that this guy's lawyer would have told him to keep quiet.
<@neca.com> wrote in message news:770sr4$e18$1...@taurus.neca.com...
>Read the back of your ticket sometime, and also notice the signs
>posted around the venues...not alway conspicuous, but there nonetheless.
>You really give up all rights to lawsuits when you have your ticket
>ripped, or even when you drive onto the venue's property.
>
>Unfortunately, people like you have abused the idea of the lawsuit
>and it has become a joke. Grow up and take soem repsonsibility
>for your own actions. If you fall on your ass on a wet floor, so what?
>Come on man, grow up a bit.
>
>later,
>fta
>
Dan Mielcarz
McLennand <mcle...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>You know know, I remember someone posting last year a fake story about a
>very similar event to screw with people, and I remember thinking, man I
>can't wait until it happens, just to show these people what could really
>happen. Or wait let me slightly rephrase that, I can't wait until it
>happens, except for the poor unfortunate soul who is victimized by
>people's neglect to realize the potential consequences of their actions.
While I'm inclined to believe Larry's story, he did post this message
shortly after the Hampton shows, making no mention of any eye injury,
implying that he was able to stealth the whole show and stating that he
has money to spend for an above face NYE. Doesn't sound to me like he was
worrying too much about his son. I'm sorry to be such a cynic, but years
of reading stuff on the net has taught me not to believe anything without
confirmation.
>From: larr...@aol.com (Larry1972)
>Subject: I have Hampton tapes from IFO the SB
>Date: 24 Nov 1998 00:00:00 GMT
>Message-ID: <19981124150559...@ng26.aol.com>
>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>Newsgroups: rec.music.phish
>X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
>
>I have Original DAT's of both Hampton shows stealth taped about 50 feet in
>front of the soundboard, right in the middle. If you were at the show you may
>have noticed me with two little things sticking out of my head.
>I'll be willing to give anybody digital clones of this tape (or analog) if you
>can help me with 1 New Years Ticket, all i need is one ticket. If you can hook
>me up with a ticket I'll also provie you with a tape of the NYE show.
>I know this sounds like the usual ticket grovel, but I'm willing to do almst
>anything for a NYE ticket. If the tape isn't incentive enough I also have cash
>to spend and I'm willing to pay above face value.
>let me know if your interested
>larr...@aol.com
That said, if your story is true, Larry, I wish you the best and I
apologize for doubting you. And even if it isn't true, it makes a good
point: THROW GLOW RINGS. Glowsticks are a bad thing to be throwing, and
everyone should stick to rings, a point clearly made by Phish at NYE when
they handed out the rings.
-Dan
--
Dan.Mi...@dartmouth.edu
<http://www.dartmouth.edu/~mielcarz/>
"Hello, my name is Dan Mielcarz. I sniff lots of glue."-phi...@aol.com
Dave McGuriman
Well said Tyler, indeed!! What is it that people need to take in a show
with them anyway, that they're worried about getting searched? Just because
you cant take your herb into the show means that someone with a permanent,
career-ending injury should stop their lawsuit. In law, I believe ones
predictions as to what would take place after a precedent was set, would be
termed slippery slope. I for one think it would finally put an end to
glowsticks, and that's about all the lawsuit would do, I spent 20 minutes
trying to avoid glowsticks while on the floor on Halloween. 20 minutes of
NO JOY. I go for the music, yes, if I go deaf, sure it's my fault, but if I
get hit by a glowstick it's the irresponsible fans fault, and the only way
to stop the fans is to get the band to stop the fans and if it takes a few
lawsuits to do it then I'm all for it. You shouldn't be angry with the
victim, but the selfish fans who can't restrain themselves. I say selfish
because they are saying to themselves, "I don't care if someone else gets
hurt, I think they are neat," well maybe it's time to think about others for
a change, have some respect.
Dave
GIVEMELIP
woodwork. Go ahead people, act out your courtroom dramas but realize that it
doesn't really work like you saw in the movies.>>
You've made a couple of posts to this effect.
Are you giving any thought at all to what your
retraction will say when he does win?
The Greatest Of All Times
I was taking in this particular night from section 54, and noticed
that people were being kicked out, sometimes forcefully for throwing
glowsticks. During the intermission I spoke with one of the guards
involved and he said that Bart instructed him to throw people out of
the show who threw the STICKS, because "some one had to be taken to
the hospital at the last show."
I believe the guy that made the original post has a legitimate
case,and while it is unfortunate -the band should be held partially
liable. The band encouraged this behavior, and refused to make any
public statements to curb this behavior once things started getting
way out of hand. A simple definitive statement from the band, MAY have
prevented this guy from getting hurt.
I'm all about the glow RINGs on a limited basis, but STICKS have no
place at a Phish concert.
CASSIUS
GIVEMELIP
>for your own actions. If you fall on your ass on a wet floor, so what?
>Come on man, grow up a bit.
You once posted that you found me annoying.
Pot & kettle all the way, baby!
PZerbo
>The Events of 12-28-98 begin to make more sense..
>
>I was taking in this particular night from section 54, and noticed
>that people were being kicked out, sometimes forcefully for throwing
>glowsticks. During the intermission I spoke with one of the guards
>involved and he said that Bart instructed him to throw people out of
>the show who threw the STICKS, because "some one had to be taken to
>the hospital at the last show."
<snip>
While I admit to having enjoyed two or three of the glowstick things, I've been
annoyed by them far more often and I'll be rather pleased to see the whole fad
die, whether by our collective choice or otherwise. AND what is said above is
hearsay, not fact. But IF it was true that Bart was instructing people to get
tossed from the venue for throwing a glow stick, I'd be mighty pissed at Phish.
You can't encourage something one day, then toss people out of the venue for
doing something the next without some type of explicit notice. I doubt Phish
would be that arbitrary and malicious in implementing such a new policy, but
you never know.
It's no biggie to me, as I don't chuck glowsticks for fun, but it would be
insanely unfair to those that do. If that is policy--and I haven't asked Bart
or anyone else so I don't know that it is or isn't--it should be communicated
clearly before the next tour. Glowsticks are a problem that can be dealt
with... but throwing some kid who doesn't know better out of the show without
notice seems harsh in the extreme.
IF such a policy is going to exist in the future, I encourage Phish as an
organization to say explicitly what is and is not OK, especially when the
consequence is something like getting tossed from the show. There are plenty of
available communication outlets to get the word around...
-Phillip
Glenn Gillis
chil...@my-dejanews.com opened his cakehole & shat the following:
>
> Accidents happen you A-Hole. Why do you blame anyone?? That's the problem
> with this country, everyone wants someone else to pay. Have you ever, ever,
> ever thrown anything at a show? What was the promoter or the venue supposed
> to do, they can't hold everybodies hand at a show you jerk off!! Your the
> reason our courts are so crowded with frivilous law suits, our insurance and
> ticket prices are so high. Become a flight attendent of get retrained in
> something else and quit your whining. Oh, by the way, my wife's an attorney,
> she'll represent you for only 20% of what you get <g>
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
All I can say is: this guy is a prick! My God, have you no decency? This guy is
injured at at concert through no fault of his own, and you decide to attack him for
suing the venue? Uh, well, you sir are the asshole.
This guy will no longer be able to continue in his chosen line of work. I am also
willing to bet that he loves flying, something he will never be able to do again
from the pilot's seat.
I am willing to bet you are a troll just trying to start shit, so I am going to go
to the crux of the matter, and ignore your asinine & childish post.
The venues have a responisbility to ensure the safety of the patrons period. If
they allow a glow stick war to happen, they are responsible for any injuries that
occur. How could they stop one? Simple. Make it known by signs, etc., that
throwing of glow sticks (or any objects) while inside said venue will cause the
thrower to be ejected from the concert. After a few people are ejected, I can
guarentee this will stop. Yeah, watching glow sticks fly looks cool, but at what
cost? Who knows what could happen if this continues? Another loss of vision or an
eye? Broken nose or split lip? These last may sound minor, but put yourself in the
position of someone who has been hit: You are trippin' balls, or maybe just
enjoying yourself dancing around, when a six inch piece of hard plastic throw as
hard as possible by someone comes & hits you in the face. Hurts doesn't it?
As far as the lawsuit goes, the guy will win. No doubt in my mind about it. Maybe
the insurance will go up a bit. However, do you think that this will keep Phish
from playing certain venues? Please. I guess few of you ever attended a metal
concert with a mosh pit. I never went into the pit, but the thrashing around in
there is surely a higher insurance risk than anything Phish fans could do. I have
seen fights, and heard of stabbings at concerts. Anyone remember Altamont?
Quick synopsis: The Stones, in 1969, decided they wanted to play a free show in CA
to thank the fans for a great tour. They manage to acquire a speedway (ever hear
the Dead song "New Spedway Boogie"?) and the Dead lay on the security which was the
Hell's Angels. The Angels beat up audience members and eventually one of the
members of the Jefferson Airplane calls them on it, and gets decked by one of the
Angels. The scene was getting to be so bad, that the Dead cancelled their portion
of the show. When the stones came on, and were playing the Angels were still
beating up fans. Jagger could not control them...they eventually stabbed a black
guy who was with a white girl, killing him (I have seen the footage of this, it is
very depressing).
Now, the above is a very sad story, but it highlights a point: Did venues ban the
Stones? I think not. They are swinging through the U.S. again here shortly (man I
wish I could see them again...they really do put on a great show, but I can't affod
the tickets). It is, for the promoters and the venues, all about the almighty
dollar. Phish regulary sells out, making much money for all. The venues will not
refuse Phish because of a lawsuit. Did the Dead stop playing when Adam Katz (I
think this was his name) was killed? No. They played the same venue again not too
long afterwards.
Red Rocks is an exception to these rules. Why? Because Morrison Colorado is a
small town, a good hour from Denver. The people have more of a say in what is going
on there. Also, think of this: The large influx of people in a town like Denver
for a show is a drop in a bucket. But in a small town like Morrison, all of these
people are a huge addition to the population. They put a strain on everything, and
effect virtually every person that lives there in various ways.
I have rambled enough, suffice it to say that this gentleman has every right to sue
the venue (I hate to see him sue Phish, and that is another issue), and I hope he
wins. So your ticket prices may go up by a couple bucks (and they may not. Hard to
say).
Glenn
Glenn Gillis
wouyld be even better if it was a lawyer who was liscnesced to practice there in VA
(laws do vary from state to state). My sister just finished law school (in CA;
great job Laura!!!), I should contact her st see what she thinks....
NScott5126
In article <369508f3...@news.uoregon.edu>, Cas...@gladstone.uoregon.edu
(The Greatest Of All Times) writes:
>I believe the guy that made the original post has a legitimate
>case,and while it is unfortunate -the band should be held partially
>liable. The band encouraged this behavior, and refused to make any
>public statements to curb this behavior once things started getting
>way out of hand. A simple definitive statement from the band, MAY have
>prevented this guy from getting hurt.
>
Good post brother, and it brings to mind a term they use in the legal community
called "Tacit Authorization." Now I'm no lawyer, and don't want to be, but if
it's true that Trey has on one or more occasions thrown glowsticks BACK at the
audience, it's can be seen by the law as condoning the throwing of the
glowsticks. I would be very surprised if this guy's lawyer didn't try to argue
this.
It seems the band could help unify the Phish community by speaking out
decisively, but it's up to them really.
Peace'nLove,
Big Nate
sandboy
attorney.........is her name Monica Starr ?
Phil Fernandez <vega...@sover.net> wrote in article
<tQSk2.349$C6....@news14.ispnews.com>...
> >Accidents happen you A-Hole. Why do you blame anyone?? That's the
problem
> >with this country, everyone wants someone else to pay. Have you ever,
ever,
> >ever thrown anything at a show? What was the promoter or the venue
> supposed
> >to do, they can't hold everybodies hand at a show you jerk off!! Your
the
> >reason our courts are so crowded with frivilous law suits, our insurance
> and
> >ticket prices are so high. Become a flight attendent of get retrained
in
> >something else and quit your whining. Oh, by the way, my wife's an
> attorney,
> >she'll represent you for only 20% of what you get <g>
>
>
David Steinberg
> Good post brother, and it brings to mind a term they use in the legal community
> called "Tacit Authorization." Now I'm no lawyer, and don't want to be, but if
> it's true that Trey has on one or more occasions thrown glowsticks BACK at the
> audience, it's can be seen by the law as condoning the throwing of the
> glowsticks. I would be very surprised if this guy's lawyer didn't try to argue
> this.
If this did happen, I wonder if the band will throw back the fact that
the person involved was stealth taping at the time.
-David "ZZYZX" Steinberg www.ihoz.com "very strange raving egomaniac"
**************************************************************************
*"Like if... in order for you to run *"I can't believe I'm a junior and a*
* an email program you had to make a * film major, when all I really *
* necklace out of seed beads and then* wanted in this life was to marry a*
* bake a pie from scratch." * lobsterman and cook fish." *
* -a Sarah Bruner analogy * -a letter from Christie Searing *
**************************************************************************
Adam
Trey was playing "glowstick catch" with the audience. They threw
glowsticks at him, and he threw them back. There goes the
neighborhood.
Adam
On Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:35:15 -0800, David Steinberg <zz...@seanet.com>
wrote:
Peter Hart
pze...@aol.com wrote:
>It's no biggie to me, as I don't chuck glowsticks for fun, but it would be
>insanely unfair to those that do. If that is policy--and I haven't asked Bart
>or anyone else so I don't know that it is or isn't--it should be communicated
>clearly before the next tour.
Agreed. I feel Phish should explicitly state that the sticks are bad news.
I was wondering, however, if the reason they don't explicitly state this
is due to the fact that by doing so they acknowledge a problem exists
thereby opening themselves up for a lawsuit. On the otherhand, they have
explicitly stated that nitrous vending is a no-no, but that's not quite
the same thing.
>Glowsticks are a problem that can be dealt
>with... but throwing some kid who doesn't know better out of the show without
>notice seems harsh in the extreme.
How a kid cannot know better is beyond me. If you throw a hard
sharp-edged object in the direction of ANY person (whether you intend
to hit someone or not) injuries can and will occur. Most very young kids are
warned against throwing stones for this reason. I feel the issue
boils down to an attitude along the lines of "Fuck it...I like the way
it looks so I'm gonna do it". Not at all the same thing as not knowing
better.
>IF such a policy is going to exist in the future, I encourage Phish as an
>organization to say explicitly what is and is not OK, especially when the
>consequence is something like getting tossed from the show. There are plenty of
>available communication outlets to get the word around...
Agreed with concept that Phish should speak up.
But I respectfully suggest that the consequence of getting thrown
out of a show pales in comparison to getting hit in the eye with one
of those things. It's just common sense.
>-Phillip
Peace,
Pete
)remove hormel to reply(
Rusty Jay
had happened. (Someone should send that to the defendants)
2. This is like suing a baseball team because you get hit by a batted ball.
There is some implied risk in every undertaking.
Peter Hart
rust...@aol.com (Rusty Jay) wrote:
<snip>
>2. This is like suing a baseball team because you get hit by a batted ball.
>There is some implied risk in every undertaking.
The big difference is that at a baseball game the audience's attention
should be on the person throwing and hitting the ball. The times people
get hurt are generally when they are not paying attention and are instead
blabbing to their neighbor.
Glowsticks at a Phish show come from random directions and angles and
in higher numbers.
For your analogy to work, the crowd at a baseball game would have to
be whipping baseballs around in the stands during the game.
PZerbo
>>Glowsticks are a problem that can be dealt
>>with... but throwing some kid who doesn't know better out of the show without
>>notice seems harsh in the extreme.
>
>How a kid cannot know better is beyond me. If you throw a hard
>sharp-edged object in the direction of ANY person (whether you intend
>to hit someone or not) injuries can and will occur. Most very young kids
>are
>warned against throwing stones for this reason. I feel the issue
>boils down to an attitude along the lines of "Fuck it...I like the way
>it looks so I'm gonna do it". Not at all the same thing as not knowing
>better.
Respectfully, it is perfectly reasonable for a kid not to know better. Most
people are not very smart (or, rather, they have been dumbed-down by living in
America, another story), and people at Phish shows are no different. The band
encouraged this activity. I may know better, you may know better, but that does
not equate to "all the kids at a show know better." Especially when their hero
has a tendency to join in the "fun."
>>IF such a policy is going to exist in the future, I encourage Phish as
>an
>>organization to say explicitly what is and is not OK, especially when the
>>consequence is something like getting tossed from the show. There are plenty
>of
>>available communication outlets to get the word around...
>
>Agreed with concept that Phish should speak up.
>
>But I respectfully suggest that the consequence of getting thrown
>out of a show pales in comparison to getting hit in the eye with one
>of those things. It's just common sense.
Hey, I hear you, and I agree with you. But it isn't common sense, I'm sorry. I
was not at all trying to establish a moral equivelance between the dangers of
getting injured by flying objects and that of getting tossed from a show. It
would suck to get injured by a projectile glowstick. Also, unrelated, it would
suck if you got tossed from a show for doing the same thing you saw the lead
guitarist do, without being clued-in that what the guitarist used to do is now
cause for ejection from the venue.
At least before the next tour, it is time for the band to speak up. I know that
Phish doesn't like to make "rules" but this is freaking out of hand. Wouldn't
take much... a simple statement that the band desires that folks do not throw
glowsticks, what constitutes a glowstick, and the consequences of doing so
(both the potential consequences for injury to yourself and others, and getting
tossed from the venue). If it is OK one day and not OK the next day, they need
to say so. Explicitly. That's all.
-Phillip
neca.com
has even chucked one violently in anger. I believe that was in Hampton.
later,
fta
nscot...@aol.com (NScott5126) writes: >
> In article <369508f3...@news.uoregon.edu>, Cas...@gladstone.uoregon.edu
> (The Greatest Of All Times) writes:
>
> >I believe the guy that made the original post has a legitimate
> >case,and while it is unfortunate -the band should be held partially
> >liable. The band encouraged this behavior, and refused to make any
> >public statements to curb this behavior once things started getting
> >way out of hand. A simple definitive statement from the band, MAY have
> >prevented this guy from getting hurt.
> >
>
> Good post brother, and it brings to mind a term they use in the legal community
> called "Tacit Authorization." Now I'm no lawyer, and don't want to be, but if
> it's true that Trey has on one or more occasions thrown glowsticks BACK at the
> audience, it's can be seen by the law as condoning the throwing of the
> glowsticks. I would be very surprised if this guy's lawyer didn't try to argue
> this.
>
Paul Levy
guess Worcester '97, I was AMAZED to see Trey throwing glowsticks back
into the audience with a gleeful look on his face. He must have done
this over a hundred times. I remember thinking, very clearly, that he is
asking for trouble, and that if someone got injured, which inevitably
was going to happen, he would be personally liable. Trey's attitude also
encouraged everyone to think it was "OK" to do this every time they play
Harry Hood (and sometimes shooting their wad during another song). I am
willing to personally testify that I saw Trey Anastasio hurling
glowsticks at the audience on at least two occasions. I'm sure there is
video at least of the Great Went documenting this. I don't think that
the Hampton Coleseium is responsible, at least spiritually, but Trey
most certainly is. I have enormous respect for Trey as a musician but
think maybe he gets a little too fucked up during the show and acts like
a little kid, when in fact he does have to have a bit of responsibility.
The band should NOT have participated and encouraged the throwing of
objects at shows, no matter how cool it looked to their drug-addled
minds. (Sorry to turn this into a discussion about the bands drug use
but I think it explains a lot here as to why Trey would possibly be so
completely reckless. For those of you who think this is an invasion of
the bands privacy, when you've got some tripping maniac on stage hurling
objects at you it becomes your business, just like its not my business
if someone gets drunk until they get behind the wheel of a car). Anyway,
good luck on your lawsuit, maybe it will finally stop these idiots.
(Besides the fact that it fucks up the mics!)
Scott Mitchell
work and has a son to raise, but let's not lose sight of the important
issue here, Phish shows in Hampton. Some revision on your post may be in
order.
mkcop...@hotmail.com wrote:
> and if Phish is banned from the Coliseum i would personaly hate you
> forever !
>
> mike
--
Scott Mitchell
check out my tapelist at:
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Arena/7975
Scott Mitchell
also help you in the future.
Epitone5 wrote:
> youre a reall asshole man.
>
> ilan
>
> >and if Phish is banned from the Coliseum i would personaly hate you
> >forever !
> >
> >mike
>
> ilan bachrach
Eric Stombaugh
wrong or indifferent.
Eric Stombaugh
to learn a different vocation from the one they are accustomed to in
order to feed their family (for medical reasons or otherwise)! Perish
the thought! Hard times call for hard measures!
Eric Stombaugh
yourselves; "Am I the Victim or the Crime"?
tjs
i can't believe the shit i'm reading here.
a guy gets nailed in the fucking EYE with a glowstick, and loses his job
leaving him with either no means of supporting his family or complete
re-training, and i'm actually reading posts from fools who think the guy has
NO RIGHT to sue for damages, and it will ruin their show if he does sue.
pardon me, but you jerks SUCK. you have got to be the most selfish and
self-indulgent pigs i've ever had the misfortune to be aware of.
i've got 3 year old kid myself, and believe me, raising her is no goddamn
picnic. if i were suddenly injured to the point of losing my career, you
can be damn sure i'd be suing the place.
re-training is not fucking cheap. people spend thousands of dollars, if not
tens of thousands of dollars getting trained into a career they choose, and
if the negligence of a venue (and it IS negligence) causes them to have to
undertake the task and the costs all over again, they certainly have the
right to compensation. i'm not even going to go into the right to maintain
the level of vision he had before he went to the show.
it is time for YOU brats to grow up. yes, i mean you who are more concerned
for the effect such a lawsuit would have on their precious concerts than you
are for the life and career of a fellow fan and the life of his child. it's
painfully obvious that you have probably never had to face much fucking
hardship in your lives, and have no compassion for those who have.
go ahead, flame away. it means nothing to me coming from the likes of you.
and be prepared to eat your words when your fate comes around and deals you
a similar hand, as it most certainly will.
Eric Stombaugh
something?? chill out mr. condescending, if you keep spouting
generalizations and taunts, you may lose your "most favored" status that
we all hold you to!
Nathaniel S Lubben
DON'T YOU EVER TALK ABOUT TREY LIKE THAT AGAIN!
it . . .hurts my feelings.
Just don't go to the shows anymore and leave Trey alone.
Jon Bruner
definitely hold it against people who *participate* in glowstick wars.
Do you think that the glowstick which injured that fan on the floor just
fell from the rafters? A participant in the "war" threw it (likely as hard
as he/she could, btw) and it struck someone else in the head. I can't
believe this is OK to some people, just because it looks cool.
And please don't try to convince anyone that glowstick wars are OK because
it isn't *intended* to hurt someone. This is ridiculous! It does hurt
people, and it is a direct result of the participants in these wars. Is it
OK for me to throw a cue ball from the upper deck, as long as I wasn't
*trying* to hit anyone?
If these "glowstick lawsuits" continue, the insurance cos. will learn about
them, and could subsequently charge a premium to the venues where Phish is
playing, due to the fact that there is a higher rate of injury at Phish
shows. Then, the venues where Phish is welcome will shrink, unless the
"war" problem is solved.
--
To reply, remove "X" from email address
Chris Frisby wrote in message <36946491...@Virginia.EDU>...
>but
>don't hold it against the people who like glowstick wars. Yes, I wish
more people
>would get the glow rings that are much safer, but I know that nobody
wanted that
>to happen to another phan. >
Peter Hart
pze...@aol.com (PZerbo) writes in response to my earlier post that
people SHOULD know better than to throw hard
objects at a show:
>Respectfully, it is perfectly reasonable for a kid not to know better. Most
>people are not very smart (or, rather, they have been dumbed-down by living in
>America, another story), and people at Phish shows are no different. The band
>encouraged this activity. I may know better, you may know better, but that does
>not equate to "all the kids at a show know better." Especially when their hero
>has a tendency to join in the "fun."
Well, ok...I hear ya about the band exacerbating the problem by throwing
them back at the crowd. But I am pretty sure that if Trey hit someone in the
eye with a stick he'd more than likely be sued to the gills, and THAT would
have stopped the glowstick thing in its tracks for sure.
I have a harder time, however, with the concept that most Americans are devoid
of common sense. That's why it's common! :-) My guess is that Trey regrets
providing positive reinforcement in the glowstick thing at this point (but I
could be wrong).
>Hey, I hear you, and I agree with you. But it isn't common sense, I'm sorry. I
>was not at all trying to establish a moral equivelance between the dangers of
>getting injured by flying objects and that of getting tossed from a show. It
>would suck to get injured by a projectile glowstick. Also, unrelated, it would
>suck if you got tossed from a show for doing the same thing you saw the lead
>guitarist do, without being clued-in that what the guitarist used to do is now
>cause for ejection from the venue.
Most phans would be ejected (from indoor venues at least) if they took their
clothes off like one particular bandmember has been know to do too. Is an
explicit statement from the band needed that phans should not follow suit?
(uh..no pun intended! :-) Again, I think it's common sense that that sort
of behavior isn't going to be received well.
Phillip, I am pretty sure we are actually coming from the same place and for the
most part agree on this issue. Maybe I am holding phans up to a standard
that is unrealistically high (I sure hope not). I guess we might just have
to agree to disagree on what is and is not common sense..but hey..that is
what these discussions are for! Thanks for taking the time to post a
thoughtful response!
>At least before the next tour, it is time for the band to speak up. I know that
>Phish doesn't like to make "rules" but this is freaking out of hand. Wouldn't
>take much... a simple statement that the band desires that folks do not throw
>glowsticks, what constitutes a glowstick, and the consequences of doing so
>(both the potential consequences for injury to yourself and others, and getting
>tossed from the venue). If it is OK one day and not OK the next day, they need
>to say so. Explicitly. That's all.
Right on....but will they do it?
Peace,
Pete
Snepog
And just to let you know, if for some reason you dont like confetti (dangerous
paper cuts!!!!), dont go to a stones concert, because believe it or not these
drugged up idiots actually shoot confetti at the crowd!!!!! Oh my lord, they
should be sued! Oh and get this I hear that every once and a while a band
might have these lights that go with the music!!!! Oh no, better wear
sunglasses buddy, cause ya might get hit right in the eye, with a beam of
light! Oh shit and then the confetti might come out!!!!!
Ellis0059
Definitely wasn't in Hampton, just to set the record straight, if it happened
at all.
Ellis K.
"Know our love will not fade away."
SpagEddy
>the domain of newbies and wannabes.....
>Good luck to you, and punch a tour scum kid for me.
Ah, yes, glowsticks are for "newbies and wannabes", but random violence
motivated by baseless prejudice is the domain of enlightened phans like
yourself.
NOTICE TO BULK E-MAILERS
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UPSForever
AdamUVM
Mike definitely didn't
Bob R.
simmer.....3rd degree burn at worst. Allow me to turn up the stove a
little:
Paul Levy <ADankG...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23458-36...@newsd-111.bryant.webtv.net...
Well, first off, nice e-mail name there. Are the gels that dank? Really?
Maybe you got Trey a few of those "dank gel hits" for the Worcester show? I
will comment more on this below.
>At the first two glowstick wars I saw, which was the Great Went and I
>guess Worcester '97, I was AMAZED to see Trey throwing glowsticks back
>into the audience with a gleeful look on his face. He must have done
>this over a hundred times. I remember thinking, very clearly, that he is
>asking for trouble, and that if someone got injured, which inevitably
>was going to happen, he would be personally liable. Trey's attitude also
>encouraged everyone to think it was "OK" to do this every time they play
>Harry Hood (and sometimes shooting their wad during another song).
Now, you will get some understanding from me on this point to a degree. I
remember getting hit in the back of the head during a killer (Dead) Dark
Star in Greensboro '91. Talk about a buzz kill!!! So kids, the trails may
look cool when you launch that stick from row M of section 221 of the local
arena, but realize that chances are it will hit some freak trying to get
deeper into the jam and their head. And damn that smarts. Thing is, I
understood that the Hood glowstick wars usually occur in the first few rows
and when your in that section, everything's game. Caveat emptor, he/she who
holds that great front row seat.
>I am
>willing to personally testify that I saw Trey Anastasio hurling
>glowsticks at the audience on at least two occasions. I'm sure there is
>video at least of the Great Went documenting this.
Paul, the lawyers in this country are already on the lookout for any
semblence of tort. Please don't encourage them with these statements!!
>I don't think that
>the Hampton Coleseium is responsible, at least spiritually,
Responsible in a "spiritual" way? Uh, OK.....I don't understand that, but
your logic is pretty interesting so far, so go for it.
> but Trey
>most certainly is. I have enormous respect for Trey as a musician but
>think maybe he gets a little too fucked up during the show and acts like
>a little kid, when in fact he does have to have a bit of responsibility.
>The band should NOT have participated and encouraged the throwing of
>objects at shows, no matter how cool it looked to their drug-addled
>minds. (Sorry to turn this into a discussion about the bands drug use
>but I think it explains a lot here as to why Trey would possibly be so
>completely reckless. For those of you who think this is an invasion of
>the bands privacy, when you've got some tripping maniac on stage hurling
>objects at you it becomes your business, just like its not my business
>if someone gets drunk until they get behind the wheel of a car).
OK, now Paul your just flat out wrong here. Trey would NEVER, NEVER go out
on a stage in front of 10-20,000 paying fans while on a hallucinagen (OK,
maybe someone put something in his soda on 2-20-93, but that's as close as
I'll come to that). As a matter of fact, from what I read he was the one
that pushed STAYING OFF DRUGS while playing to the band when they first
started (I remember reading that Fish liked to play high, but realized later
that your perception so screwed when you're high that it sounds like crap to
a sober person). Plus, Trey is a PROFESSIONAL and understands that
hallucinagens and playing just don't mix. Things that sound cool high just
don't work. I don't know about what he does when he writes, but the high he
gets when playing is from the music and audience ONLY. But your e-mail name
begs the question....Paul, do you have some insider information about Trey's
drug habits that we don't know about? Do you sell to him or are you giving
him those "dank gels" pro bono? (JK folks....don't include me in the flames)
>Anyway,
>good luck on your lawsuit, maybe it will finally stop these idiots.
See above comment about legal sharks.
>(Besides the fact that it fucks up the mics!)
An actual valid point here at the end. Folks, lets keep those sticks FOB.
If one of my Neumanns or Sennheisers got destroyed because of someone
hurling sticks near the taping area, I'd be DAMN PISSED!! Look y'all, have
fun, enjoy the show, look at the pretty lights but keep the stick war in an
isolated area of the arena. Phish has been damn good at letting us have a
little freedom to make things cool and trust us to enjoy that freedom
responsibly. Its like Kesey said....."Serious Fun!" And Paul, take it easy
man....lay off Trey and watch out for those sticks!!!
My $0.02 Worth,
Florida Bob
Snepog
>them, and could subsequently charge a premium to the venues where Phish is
>playing, due to the fact that there is a higher rate of injury at Phish
>shows. Then, the venues where Phish is welcome will shrink, unless the
>"war" problem is solved.
>--
And then the monkeys will come and eat all of the glowsticks and make the world
a better place, but not untill after the pigs fly out of Trey's ass and spit on
all of the horrible glowstick throwers!!! Lets keep it real people!!! Come
on, isnt that a stretch, that glowsticks are going to ruin Phish's career?
Once again, all I have to say is....
GLOW RINGS and....
GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON!!!! Can we please just get past this glowstick
controversy, I am so tired of seeing the majority of the Phish NG taken up by
Glowstick posts, why dont you all just start a Glowstick News Group and you
can just sit and fight, while us phish phans stay right here. Sounds good to
me!
Untill next time,
the famous,
fenTon
Snepog
1250 on my SAT last June but I can spell. My dog spells better then me, I am
amazing.
love,
the famous,
fenTon
Dave
accurate description of the event though)
Adam Joshua Schneider
>
> Then join the "help the spelling impared group", I need help man, I scored a
> 1250 on my SAT last June but I can spell. My dog spells better then me, I am
> amazing.
Wow, I scored an 1100 on my SAT's 9 years ago, what does that make me?
What would I get now?
;-)
Adam
--
asch...@optonline.net
http://members.xoom.com/Twoeleven/
FTP IP address: 167.206.202.129
login/password: anonymous
Tyler Woyiwada
tjs wrote:
Hear, hear! An accurate and excellent post. Good show!
Styler
Tyler Woyiwada
Snepog wrote:
Don't exaggerate. Confetti is not glowsticks. It's really easy to make
irrelevant metaphors to make a weak point seem strong.
Styler
Tyler Woyiwada
GIVEMELIP wrote:
> <<Seriously. Although it is amusing to see the lawyer wannabes come out of the
> woodwork. Go ahead people, act out your courtroom dramas but realize that it
> doesn't really work like you saw in the movies.>>
>
> You've made a couple of posts to this effect.
> Are you giving any thought at all to what your
> retraction will say when he does win?
Um... I made it pretty clear that I thought he was going to win. Why would I
retract anything?
Styler
Eric Stombaugh
Steve B
tjs
Eric Stombaugh wrote in message
<3794-369...@newsd-122.bryant.webtv.net>...
SpagEddy
>world
>a better place, but not untill after the pigs fly out of Trey's ass and spit
>on
>all of the horrible glowstick throwers!!!
This wins the award for "Best Glowstick Post", so we can all stop competing and
get back to discussing other Phishy matters.
Congratulations, fenTon, your trophy's in the mail. =)
Self-appointed arbitor of the REAL glowstick wars (the online argument, as
opposed to the comparitively tame hurling of plastic objects at shows),
Eddy
All flames will be met with love =)
UPSForever
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