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500 Minutes of Phishtory!?!??

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Charles Andrew Dirksen

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Jan 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/29/97
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Five 100 minute tapes of "The History of Phish." It is ridiculous to
think that Phish's history could be summed up in 500 minutes, I KNOW,
but blame Kim Hannula (it was HER idea, sortof.. she mocked the whole
notion of it, and I acted upon it, pursuant to my diseased
rationality).

I obviously didn't spend much time compiling the following. I'm sure
most of you could and will come up with better ideas. Please create
your own whole tapes or just append/subtract from the following!! I
think I'd like to make some mixed tapes at some point (or maybe
someone else could) for people.

I haven't bothered timing anything, and so I don't really know whether
everything listed beneath a particular heading will fit on one 100
minute tape (probably won't). I've tried to be reasonable (you'll
notice a lot of ellipses, i.e., " . . . "), but reasonableness is
clearly a challenge for me. I cut out a lot of stuff I wish I didn't
have to cut, like the 5/17/92 Possum, the 5/6/93 Tweezer, and
multitudes of other really excellently jammed versions of tunes. But,
I'm thinking Phishtory... there's bazillions of minutes of excellent
jams.

Feel free, as always, to mercilessly flame me if you think I did
something egregiously ignorant and moronic (which is likely, given
what little thought I've put into this), but also keep in mind the
Difficulty involved here. I had to cut legitimate stuff. But what
would YOU prioritize? It basically comes down to: WHAT ARE THE MOST
HISTORICALLY RELEVANT 100 MINUTES for the [year(s)] period.

RIDICULOUS? Clearly. But amuse yourself. Kinda sad, though, I admit.
WHY is XX/XX/XX [Name of Song] historically important?
What do you think????? (besides that I'm insane)


Tape One (1984-1989)

12/01/84 ... Scarlet Begonnias -> Fire (Hendrix) -> FOTM ...
10/30/85 Harry Hood (first version)
04/15/86 Prep School Hippie
12/06/86 Mike's Song > Little Drummer Boy > Whipping Post
08/21/87 Curtain > Slow "Rift" Jam
03/12/88 Tela
05/25/88 Harpua
08/06/88 You Enjoy Myself > Cities > Dave's Energy Guide > Cities
05/28/89 Sanity
10/20/89 Split Open and Melt
10/26/89 Fish's Gull Poem, No Dogs Allowed ...


Tape Two (1990-1991)

04/05/90 Tweezer
04/18/90 Jaegermeister
10/31/90 Reba
11/04/90 Manteca > Caravan > Manteca
12/28/90 Possum
04/11/91 Landlady > Destiny Unbound
04/27/91 Fluffhead
05/12/91 Antelope (E) (last song @ the Front)
07/21/91 Contact
07/26/91 ... You Enjoy Myself ...
10/28/91 Whipping Post (first Fish on fretless guitar! ;-)
11/21/91 Mike's Song > I Am Hydrogen > Weekapaug Groove
12/31/91 ... Auld Lang Syne > Runaway ...


Tape Three (1992-1993)

03/06/92 Signals
03/13/92 Antelope > BBFCFM > Antelope
04/18/92 Harry Hood
07/25/92 Funky Bitch (w/Carlos)
12/31/92 Mike's Song > Auld Lang Syne > Weekapaug Groove
02/03/93 Loving Cup
03/22/93 AC/DC Bag
05/08/93 ... Amazing Grace w/jam
08/13/93 ... Bathtub Gin ...
08/20/93 Slave
12/30/93 Mike's Song > Horse..
12/31/93 ... Auld Lang DWD Jam ...


Tape Four (1994)

04/04/94 Landlady
05/07/94 ... Sparks > Jam > Makisupa > Sweet Emotion ...
05/27/94 Possum
06/17/94 OJ Poor Heart
06/26/94 Kung, DWD (sweet version, btw)
07/08/94 McGrupp
10/08/94 Guyute
10/31/94 WMGGW
11/18/94 Sweet Baby's Arms
11/22/94 Funky Bitch > JAM ...
12/29/94 ... Bowie ...


Tape Five (1995-6)

05/16/95 Theme from the Bottom
06/26/95 ... DWD Jam > Free
07/02/95 Camel Walk
10/31/95 5:15
11/14/95 ... Stash ...
11/25/95 ... Switching Instr. Jam ... (BRIEF!) (*@$)
12/09/95 ... YEM ...
12/29/95 ...Gin > Real Me > Gin
12/31/95 JBGoode (E)
06/06/96 AC/DC Bag
07/12/96 "Ska Groove"
08/17/96 Brother
10/31/96 ... Houses -> Seen And Not Seen ... (just the segue)
11/02/96 ... Crosseyed & Painless ... (Permagroove section)
11/29/96 ... Taste ... (just the jam)
12/06/96 ... Harpua ... (just the opening)
12/31/96 Harry Hood

Oh well. Kinda butchering those last tapes, eh? I can't do this..
I've spent almost two hours procrastinating.. blah.

You can do better, so DO IT!

(if anyone sees one (or more) of the tapes above and drools, please
let me know which one(s), because it may encourage me to make it or
them... (and then make a tape offer))

Please cc dirk...@usfca.edu on your response to this email! =^]

two cents
charlie


belenke

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Jan 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/29/97
to Charles Andrew Dirksen

Charlie, I like this idea, but how bout another hundred minutes
featuring guest stars? Many amazing Phish moments (and some pretty
awful, but none the less important) have occured when guest have taken
the stage with Phish and combined to make something amazing.

Unfortunatly I don't have enough tapes to give exact dates, but just
in terms of characters to include you might want to have Jah Roy, Ninja
Custodian, The Dude of Life, Col. Bruce Hampton, John Popper, Jimmy
Buffet(?)... I think one of the great things about Phish is how they can
incorperate a special guest into the band and come out sounding like
they'd been playing together all along.

Well this is just an idea, take from it what you wish.

-rachel

http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~belenke

Christopher P Kaminski

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Jan 29, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/29/97
to

Gotta have a PYITE on there.:

--
Chris Kaminski
New York, NY

"Unity, as one stand together" Operation Ivy
"Everybody's got a little light under the sun" -P-Funk
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, and then you
get the women."- Homer Simpson
"Forget your underwear, were free!"- Allen Ginsberg

Darius Zelkha

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Feb 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/1/97
to Charles Andrew Dirksen

Charles Andrew Dirksen wrote:

> Tape Two (1990-1991)
>
> 04/05/90 Tweezer
> 04/18/90 Jaegermeister

Throw in LLAMA from 10/30/90 (I think that date is right) here. It's
the 2nd time ever played and performed probably about HALF as fast as
it's played nowadays.

> 10/31/90 Reba
> 11/04/90 Manteca > Caravan > Manteca
> 12/28/90 Possum
> 04/11/91 Landlady > Destiny Unbound
> 04/27/91 Fluffhead
> 05/12/91 Antelope (E) (last song @ the Front)
> 07/21/91 Contact

Why this Contact? I haven't heard it, but I can't imagine that Contact
has changed much over the years (this one's with horns, right?). Save
this space for something like the 4/11/91 Prison Joke!

> 07/26/91 ... You Enjoy Myself ...
> 10/28/91 Whipping Post (first Fish on fretless guitar! ;-)

The 11/16/91 YEM is ESSENTIAL here, Charlie.

> 11/21/91 Mike's Song > I Am Hydrogen > Weekapaug Groove
> 12/31/91 ... Auld Lang Syne > Runaway ...
>
> Tape Three (1992-1993)
>
> 03/06/92 Signals
> 03/13/92 Antelope > BBFCFM > Antelope

4/17/92 Reba or Bowie -> Catapult (1st ever) -> Bowie here, no question.

> 04/18/92 Harry Hood
> 07/25/92 Funky Bitch (w/Carlos)
> 12/31/92 Mike's Song > Auld Lang Syne > Weekapaug Groove
> 02/03/93 Loving Cup
> 03/22/93 AC/DC Bag

Kill the 'Bag and put something like the 8/20/93 or 2/4/93 Wedge, with
the piano intro and jam, instead.

> 05/08/93 ... Amazing Grace w/jam
> 08/13/93 ... Bathtub Gin ...
> 08/20/93 Slave
> 12/30/93 Mike's Song > Horse..
> 12/31/93 ... Auld Lang DWD Jam ...
>
> Tape Four (1994)
>
> 04/04/94 Landlady
> 05/07/94 ... Sparks > Jam > Makisupa > Sweet Emotion ...
> 05/27/94 Possum
> 06/17/94 OJ Poor Heart

I agree that SOMETHING from the OJ show should be on this tape, but it
should be the 2001, not the 'Heart. I can't even listen to 2001 anymore
without wanting to yell "OJ!" at the climax ;-)

> 06/26/94 Kung, DWD (sweet version, btw)
> 07/08/94 McGrupp
> 10/08/94 Guyute
> 10/31/94 WMGGW
> 11/18/94 Sweet Baby's Arms
> 11/22/94 Funky Bitch > JAM ...
> 12/29/94 ... Bowie ...
>
> Tape Five (1995-6)
>
> 05/16/95 Theme from the Bottom
> 06/26/95 ... DWD Jam > Free
> 07/02/95 Camel Walk

Blech. No way. Get Camel Walk (aka Waste of Tape Space) out of here
and put something like the jammed version of CASPIAN (can't think of the
date off-hand, but it's summer '95) in here in its place.

Also, a primary version of TASTE, like 6/30/95, is essential, as is the
primary version of FOG THAT SURROUNDS (9/27/95, perhaps).

> 10/31/95 5:15
> 11/14/95 ... Stash ...
> 11/25/95 ... Switching Instr. Jam ... (BRIEF!) (*@$)
> 12/09/95 ... YEM ...
> 12/29/95 ...Gin > Real Me > Gin
> 12/31/95 JBGoode (E)
> 06/06/96 AC/DC Bag
> 07/12/96 "Ska Groove"
> 08/17/96 Brother
> 10/31/96 ... Houses -> Seen And Not Seen ... (just the segue)
> 11/02/96 ... Crosseyed & Painless ... (Permagroove section)
> 11/29/96 ... Taste ... (just the jam)

Forget "just the jam." We need a version of the AWESOME WAY TASTE IS
NOW BEING PLAYED (thanks for the great changes, Phish!!!), all the way
through. Put ALL of the 11/29/96 TASTE on there.

> 12/06/96 ... Harpua ... (just the opening)
> 12/31/96 Harry Hood

Maybe the CHARACTER ZERO from this show would work as well...And I like
the idea of another tape with guests. On the guest tape, the 11/30/96
POSSUM with John and Peter is essential, as is something with Cameron
McKinney. Speaking of guests, either the 10/22/96 Watchtower w/Buddy
and Merle _or_ the WPB Brown-eyed Girl w/Jimmy Buffet should get on
there as well (both are arguably equally atrocious).

Cool idea/outline, Charlie. Comments anyone?

Darius

--

darius...@oberlin.edu
http://www.oberlin.edu/~dzelkha/

Charles Andrew Dirksen

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Feb 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/1/97
to t...@nowhere.net

The Rebel Alliance.. . . . nevermind. (shiver) (deep breath)

Did you see a guy on the NYE run wearing a DARTH VADER SHIRT and a SANTA'S
HAT!? Look again..

THE Darius Zelkha of Oberlin.edu followed up to CD's lame ones:

: > Tape Two (1990-1991)
: >
: > 04/05/90 Tweezer
: > 04/18/90 Jaegermeister

: Throw in LLAMA from 10/30/90 (I think that date is right) here. It's
: the 2nd time ever played and performed probably about HALF as fast as
: it's played nowadays.

That would mean that Llama would have to be put on another tape as an
example of how it had "evolved." How many shows did you see in 1993?

Next.

;-)

(sorry.. inside "joke")


: > 07/21/91 Contact

: Why this Contact? I haven't heard it, but I can't imagine that Contact
: has changed much over the years (this one's with horns, right?). Save
: this space for something like the 4/11/91 Prison Joke!

I considered the Prison Joke, but opted for the Gull (sic.. I meant GALL)
poem. For obvious reasons. Contact 7/21/91 is the greatest version of
Contact I've ever heard, and is on one of the most widely distributed
tapes in Phishtory. (excuse me, SHOWS in phishtory) Don't you think so?
Haven't you heard it!?!?? ;) I talked to Gerhard's mother about this show
about two years ago.. she was there. Even SHE knows about how glorious
this show is.. What's wrong with you!? ;) She had a Great Time!!!!

Contact is obviously not a "serious" tune. I'm still, to this day, amused
when people join Mike and Trey -- apparently oblivious to the joke -- in
hand-waving/raising splendor. :) If you raise your hands, at least
realize that you are involved in a mammoth Good One. Nevermind.. Kill me.
I am an asshole. I suck. I need to _really_ get a life. Why are you
fucking reading what I have to say!??!?

Next..

: > 07/26/91 ... You Enjoy Myself ...


: > 10/28/91 Whipping Post (first Fish on fretless guitar! ;-)

: The 11/16/91 YEM is ESSENTIAL here, Charlie.

I disagree. I considered it, but given the other YEMs on the tapes..
naah. 7/26/91 has a fantastic jam segment with the horns. Even though I
personally prefer 11/16/91, I thought it more historically important that
it be there and not 11/16/91 (I suck). Just because Marcie Dergel and Tom
Marshall were at the Bayou that night doesn't necessarily make it a
Historical show. =^] That YEM is the greatest YEM (11/16/91) up through
11/16/91 I think... but still, Darius. Thinking historically.. I mean,
shit, if we are talking Great Jam Segments, I'd need a few thousand more
minutes for this project. We have to be discriminating. Or we should be,
at least. Right?

: > Tape Three (1992-1993)


: >
: > 03/06/92 Signals
: > 03/13/92 Antelope > BBFCFM > Antelope

: 4/17/92 Reba or Bowie -> Catapult (1st ever) -> Bowie here, no question.

Well, actually. As you probably gathered, there's not enough room for it
given the other Historical Moments involved. Even though this is very
well played, it was basically either this or 3/13/92, and welll.. would
you really choose this 4/17/92 Wonder over the 3/13/92 masterpiece?
Victor, do you want to chime in here? The 4/17/92 Bowie and the 3/13/92
Antelope are clearly Classics. But. If forced to chooose!? I'd have to
go with the 3/13/92 Antelope.. (clearly) But that's just me. What do YOU
think? Anyone? Buehler? Kill me.

: > 12/31/92 Mike's Song > Auld Lang Syne > Weekapaug Groove


: > 02/03/93 Loving Cup
: > 03/22/93 AC/DC Bag

: Kill the 'Bag and put something like the 8/20/93 or 2/4/93 Wedge, with
: the piano intro and jam, instead.

What do you think the 2/3/93 'Cup is in here for!?? The 'Cup was the
reason for the grand (piano) in the first place. That 2/4/93 Wedge is
SPECTACULAR imo.. but the 3/22/93 'Bag? Gamehendge show. Difficult
decisions, Darius. Very difficult. Do you still think the 2/4/93 Wedge
should be there instead of the triumphant 2/3/93 Cup, and the 3/22/93
'Bag? I had to make a Choice.. and I cut the Wedge....

: > 06/17/94 OJ Poor Heart

: I agree that SOMETHING from the OJ show should be on this tape, but it
: should be the 2001, not the 'Heart. I can't even listen to 2001 anymore
: without wanting to yell "OJ!" at the climax ;-)

Ok.. You're right.. I hope that fits. I'll do it!!! =^] Unless a
multitude disagrees.. (chime in, please, the few dozen of you that are
amused by all this as we are.. kill us)

: > 07/02/95 Camel Walk

: Blech. No way. Get Camel Walk (aka Waste of Tape Space) out of here
: and put something like the jammed version of CASPIAN (can't think of the
: date off-hand, but it's summer '95) in here in its place.

Are you shitting me, Darius!??!??? Do you have any idea how many letters
were sent to Mike regarding Camel Walk before this was played!? Do you
have any idea how many times Mike was asked to play CAMEL WALK AGAIN in
the lot at shows? I didn't think so. CASPIAN!!?? Are you NUTS!? ;) The
only jammed out version of Caspian is Red Rocks 8/6/96 and you know it.
Go ahead. I dare you to listen to your favorite summer '95 Caspian and
weigh it against 8/6/96. ;) (cough) (ack) (wheeze) Caspian. (spit)

We're talking CAMEL WALK here. BRING EM BACK FROM THE DEAD I SAY..

(ack)
(cough)

: Also, a primary version of TASTE, like 6/30/95, is essential, as is the

: primary version of FOG THAT SURROUNDS (9/27/95, perhaps).

Blllgggh.. The only Taste that matters is the jam segment of 11/29/96. ;)
You were there. Remember!?? That was when you had LONG HAIR, man!

: > 11/29/96 ... Taste ... (just the jam)

: Forget "just the jam." We need a version of the AWESOME WAY TASTE IS
: NOW BEING PLAYED (thanks for the great changes, Phish!!!), all the way
: through. Put ALL of the 11/29/96 TASTE on there.

No. There isn't enough SPACE. We have to think SPACE here, Darius. 500
minutes!??!? This is a challenge. Are we up to it!?!?? I don't know. I
think we suck. You bagged Camel Walk from one of the LAST SUGARBUSH SHOWS
IN VERMONT for fucking Caspian. Why am I talking to you?! (oh yeah.. I
respect your opinions.. :) Two cents.. IS two cents.. after all.. )

: Maybe the CHARACTER ZERO from this show would work as well...And I like

: the idea of another tape with guests. On the guest tape, the 11/30/96

The 12/31/96 Char Zero? The most jammed out version I've heard, sure.
But hey, you like Rachel Belenke's idea of a tape of GUESTS WITH PHISH!?
Then you make it.

=^]

I told Rachel that I couldn't IN GOOD FAITH make a tape of Guests with
Phish, since there were only a couple Events that included Guests that I
truly thought were Musically Worthy... 5/5/93 YEM with ARU, practically
everything with Karl Perazzo or Butch Trucks.. the WMGGW with Warren
Haynes.. everything with Santana.. =^] I mean, ICCULUS, have you heard the
10/22/96 encore w/Buddy Miles!? (retch) Howabout the 6/17/95 "three
little birds" with DMB? The BE Girl with .. ugh... (insert Ren voice)

I'm going to be sick. Musical taste, Darius. We don't want to highlight
Phish's LAME moments, even if they were with guest "musicians."

: POSSUM with John and Peter is essential, as is something with Cameron

: McKinney. Speaking of guests, either the 10/22/96 Watchtower w/Buddy
: and Merle _or_ the WPB Brown-eyed Girl w/Jimmy Buffet should get on
: there as well (both are arguably equally atrocious).

bwahahaha.. ok.. you can put that lame stuff on your GUESTS WITH PHISH
tape, Darius. ;) I won't be tradin or sendin you blanks.. :)

And hey.. if you think that Sacto Possum with John and Peter is good,
check out 5/17/92, with JUST PHISH. (insert Homer voice) It KICKS THAT
SACTO POSSUM'S BUTT! Gosh.. I feel like I'm trying to converse with AJ
ABRAMS about the .. oh forget it. Kill me.

=^]

All in good Taste,
(ack)
(cough)
(wheeze)

KingMoron420, Back from the Dead

Herschel A Gelman

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Feb 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/2/97
to

Darius wrote:

| : Blech. No way. Get Camel Walk (aka Waste of Tape Space) out of here
| : and put something like the jammed version of CASPIAN (can't think of the
| : date off-hand, but it's summer '95) in here in its place.

KingMoron responded:

| Are you shitting me, Darius!??!??? Do you have any idea how many letters
| were sent to Mike regarding Camel Walk before this was played!? Do you
| have any idea how many times Mike was asked to play CAMEL WALK AGAIN in
| the lot at shows?

So? I'm sure Mike's been asked to bring back Destiny Unbound even more
times, but that doesn't make it a good song...

(Though I don't have anything against Camel Walk)

I don't want to decide what would be left off of the "500 minutes" tapes,
so I'll just ask where the 12/31/95 Mike's went. I guess it's a question
of whether there should be more "historical landmarks" in the sense of new
and different things, or whether it's more of a "Best of Live Phish"

Hmm. 500 minutes sure *sounds* like a lot, before you really look at it
closer...

--
Herschel "How about the 6/17/90 studio Tweezer instead of the 4/90
one you listed?" Gelman

Darius Zelkha

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Feb 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/2/97
to

Charles Andrew Dirksen wrote:

| THE Darius Zelkha of Oberlin.edu followed up to CD's lame ones:
|
| : > Tape Two (1990-1991)
| : >
| : > 04/05/90 Tweezer
| : > 04/18/90 Jaegermeister
|
| : Throw in LLAMA from 10/30/90 (I think that date is right) here. It's
| : the 2nd time ever played and performed probably about HALF as fast as
| : it's played nowadays.
|
| That would mean that Llama would have to be put on another tape as an
| example of how it had "evolved." How many shows did you see in 1993?
|
| Next.
|
| ;-)
|
| (sorry.. inside "joke")

"Ha ha." (to answer your question, one show).

;-)

| I considered the Prison Joke, but opted for the Gull (sic.. I meant GALL)
| poem. For obvious reasons. Contact 7/21/91 is the greatest version of
| Contact I've ever heard, and is on one of the most widely distributed
| tapes in Phishtory. (excuse me, SHOWS in phishtory) Don't you think so?
| Haven't you heard it!?!?? ;)

What?!?? Are there sbd. copies of 7/21/91 around??? OK, who's got 'em...

|I talked to Gerhard's mother about this show
| about two years ago.. she was there. Even SHE knows about how glorious
| this show is.. What's wrong with you!? ;) She had a Great Time!!!!

Obviously, the words of Mama Gerhard should be taken as gospel.

Anyway, sure, this version of Contact (which I _have_ heard ;-) rocks the
house. OK, leave it on; I guess SOMETHING from Arrowhead should be on the
500 min. of Phishtory, seeing as this may be The Most Circulated Tape in
Phishtory.

| : The 11/16/91 YEM is ESSENTIAL here, Charlie.
|
| I disagree. I considered it, but given the other YEMs on the tapes..
| naah. 7/26/91 has a fantastic jam segment with the horns. Even though I
| personally prefer 11/16/91, I thought it more historically important that
| it be there and not 11/16/91 (I suck). Just because Marcie Dergel and Tom
| Marshall were at the Bayou that night doesn't necessarily make it a
| Historical show. =^] That YEM is the greatest YEM (11/16/91) up through
| 11/16/91 I think... but still, Darius. Thinking historically.. I mean,
| shit, if we are talking Great Jam Segments, I'd need a few thousand more
| minutes for this project. We have to be discriminating. Or we should be,
| at least. Right?

Wrong. Very wrong. If we're talking HISTORY (or, Phishtory), then I think
this YEM is clearly Historical. I mean, shit Charlie, Trey actually
mentions it as such in an interview (the one from late '91 in MA done by
Shelly), and how often does Trey mention PARTICULAR versions of PARTICULAR
songs?!?? Besides, as you point out, the jam segment in this YEM is truly
incredible, and downright _groundbreaking_ for '91. It makes many of the
1992 -> 1994 YEMs look like Green Day, for christ's sake.

;-)

The 11/16/91 YEM stays.

|
| : > Tape Three (1992-1993)
| : >
| : > 03/06/92 Signals
| : > 03/13/92 Antelope > BBFCFM > Antelope
|
| : 4/17/92 Reba or Bowie -> Catapult (1st ever) -> Bowie here, no question.
|
| Well, actually. As you probably gathered, there's not enough room for it
| given the other Historical Moments involved. Even though this is very
| well played, it was basically either this or 3/13/92, and welll.. would
| you really choose this 4/17/92 Wonder over the 3/13/92 masterpiece?
| Victor, do you want to chime in here? The 4/17/92 Bowie and the 3/13/92
| Antelope are clearly Classics. But. If forced to chooose!? I'd have to
| go with the 3/13/92 Antelope.. (clearly) But that's just me. What do YOU
| think? Anyone? Buehler? Kill me.

Ok, I guess I'd go with the 3/13/92 Antelope over the 4/17/92 Bowie,
historically speaking. In terms of the Reba, look at your tape case again,
Charlie, and tell me that there aren't tons of little stars and exclamation
points next to this Reba. I thought so. But in terms of PHISHTORY, you're
right, screw it. It doesn't represent any milestone, though it is some of
the best stuff Phish has ever done, IMO. But for the sake of appeasing the
King, we'll leave it out. Just don't hurt me.


| What do you think the 2/3/93 'Cup is in here for!?? The 'Cup was the
| reason for the grand (piano) in the first place. That 2/4/93 Wedge is
| SPECTACULAR imo.. but the 3/22/93 'Bag? Gamehendge show. Difficult
| decisions, Darius. Very difficult. Do you still think the 2/4/93 Wedge
| should be there instead of the triumphant 2/3/93 Cup, and the 3/22/93
| 'Bag? I had to make a Choice.. and I cut the Wedge....

No way in heck. Don't you remember when WEDGE was ___jammed out___,
Charlie?!??? 2/4/93? 8/20/93? If we're talking changes or noteworthy
moments in Phishtory, the Jammed Out Wedge should find its place somewhere.


The idea of putting AC/DC BAG -- any version of AC/DC BAG -- in place of a
jammed-out Wedge is laughable. Absolutely hilarious, actually. HA HA
HAAAA!!!! (wheez) Why don't we put a fairly good version of SUZIE in
there, while we're at it?? And a strong 1993 Chalkdust, too!

;-)

Seriously, though, I think a jammed-out 1993 Wedge has its place in the
Phishtory books.


| Ok.. You're right.. I hope that fits. I'll do it!!! =^] Unless a
| multitude disagrees.. (chime in, please, the few dozen of you that are
| amused by all this as we are.. kill us)

I don't think many are as amused by this as _I_ am. I'm laughing so hard
my roomates think I'm nuts (they're not far off).

|
| : > 07/02/95 Camel Walk


|
| : Blech. No way. Get Camel Walk (aka Waste of Tape Space) out of here
| : and put something like the jammed version of CASPIAN (can't think of the
| : date off-hand, but it's summer '95) in here in its place.
|

| Are you shitting me, Darius!??!??? Do you have any idea how many letters
| were sent to Mike regarding Camel Walk before this was played!? Do you
| have any idea how many times Mike was asked to play CAMEL WALK AGAIN in

| the lot at shows? I didn't think so.

Actually, I do. Answers:

1) 1567
2) 420

I don't care if half the planet requested CAMEL WALK -- why do people like
this song?!?? I mean, it's amusing, but not worthy of writing Mike to
bring back. In fact, I almost wrote Mike a letter to KILL IT when I heard
the Sugarbush tapes ;-)

|CASPIAN!!?? Are you NUTS!? ;) The
| only jammed out version of Caspian is Red Rocks 8/6/96 and you know it.
| Go ahead. I dare you to listen to your favorite summer '95 Caspian and
| weigh it against 8/6/96. ;) (cough) (ack) (wheeze) Caspian. (spit)
|
| We're talking CAMEL WALK here. BRING EM BACK FROM THE DEAD I SAY..

The only reason I suggested CASPIAN is because I know that at one point in
summer '95 it was JAMMED -- i.e. Trey took a SOLO. I haven't listened to
8/6/96 in a while, but I'm happy that you remember some things about this
show, Charlie -- does this make it above average??? ;-)
(inside "joke" referring to the battle we waged after the Red Rocks run
over the importance of this show).


| Blllgggh.. The only Taste that matters is the jam segment of 11/29/96. ;)
| You were there. Remember!?? That was when you had LONG HAIR, man!

Funny you should use the word "Remember" in this stippet -- because I
_DIDN'T_ HAVE LONG HAIR THEN! That was the show that I came up to you (w/
SHORT hair) and all you gave me was a blank stare, until I said hello and
_RE-introduced_ myself. "Remember", Charlie?!???!

;-)


| : > 11/29/96 ... Taste ... (just the jam)
|
| : Forget "just the jam." We need a version of the AWESOME WAY TASTE IS
| : NOW BEING PLAYED (thanks for the great changes, Phish!!!), all the way
| : through. Put ALL of the 11/29/96 TASTE on there.
|
| No. There isn't enough SPACE. We have to think SPACE here, Darius. 500
| minutes!??!? This is a challenge. Are we up to it!?!?? I don't know. I
| think we suck. You bagged Camel Walk from one of the LAST SUGARBUSH SHOWS
| IN VERMONT for fucking Caspian. Why am I talking to you?! (oh yeah.. I
| respect your opinions.. :) Two cents.. IS two cents.. after all.. )

I forgot: you want to make the last tape nothing but pieces of segments of
jams. Wow. Fun. Neat. Why don't we just pick certain MEASURES of music
we like and slap them on? We could even use a couple measures from that
Disgrace Known As CAMEL WALK if you'd like. Only the "jam", of course.

;-)

| I told Rachel that I couldn't IN GOOD FAITH make a tape of Guests with
| Phish, since there were only a couple Events that included Guests that I
| truly thought were Musically Worthy... 5/5/93 YEM with ARU, practically
| everything with Karl Perazzo or Butch Trucks.. the WMGGW with Warren
| Haynes.. everything with Santana.. =^]

The fact that you didn't mention the 11/29/95 Slave with Bela...oh my oh
my, oh my. (Voice of Gerhard's mother here) Charles Andrew Dirksen, I'm
ashamed at you.

(ack)
(cough)
(laugh)

This was the most fun I've had all day (seriously). Kill me.

;-)

All in good Fun,

Darius, short-haired since 10/21/96

PS: If, for some reason, this gets posted twice, it's because my Netscape
is smoking crack.

darius...@oberlin.edu
http://www.oberlin.edu/~dzelkha/

Craig D. DeLucia

unread,
Feb 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/2/97
to

Stepping into the fracas between the KingMoron and our recently returned
Net.friend Darius (welcome back, Darius!!):

On 2 Feb 1997, Darius Zelkha wrote:
> Charles Andrew Dirksen wrote:
>
> | THE Darius Zelkha of Oberlin.edu followed up to CD's lame ones:

> | : The 11/16/91 YEM is ESSENTIAL here, Charlie.
> |
> | I disagree. I considered it, but given the other YEMs on the tapes..
> | naah. 7/26/91 has a fantastic jam segment with the horns. Even though I
> | personally prefer 11/16/91, I thought it more historically important that
> | it be there and not 11/16/91 (I suck).
>

> Wrong. Very wrong. If we're talking HISTORY (or, Phishtory), then I think
> this YEM is clearly Historical. I mean, shit Charlie, Trey actually
> mentions it as such in an interview (the one from late '91 in MA done by
> Shelly), and how often does Trey mention PARTICULAR versions of PARTICULAR
> songs?!?? Besides, as you point out, the jam segment in this YEM is truly
> incredible, and downright _groundbreaking_ for '91. It makes many of the
> 1992 -> 1994 YEMs look like Green Day, for christ's sake.

Charlie, I can't believe you are including that 7/26/91 YEM just because
of the horns. The 11/16/91 YEM is a TURNING POINT in YEM's history. It
is the precursor to all the great YEM's that have followed. I agree with
Darius's Green Day analogy ;^) This YEM kicks the shit out of almost
every YEM that I have heard from the beginning of Phishtory through early
'94. Hands down.

> The 11/16/91 YEM stays.

I've got your back, Darius ;^)

> | : 4/17/92 Reba or Bowie -> Catapult (1st ever) -> Bowie here, no question.
> |
> | Well, actually. As you probably gathered, there's not enough room for it
> | given the other Historical Moments involved. Even though this is very
> | well played, it was basically either this or 3/13/92, and welll.. would
> | you really choose this 4/17/92 Wonder over the 3/13/92 masterpiece?
>

> Ok, I guess I'd go with the 3/13/92 Antelope over the 4/17/92 Bowie,
> historically speaking.

Tough call. I am partial to the 4/17/92 because it is one of the first
Bowie's I ever heard and it blew my mind. But I think Dirksen is right;
the 3/13/92 is more "historic."

> | What do you think the 2/3/93 'Cup is in here for!?? The 'Cup was the
> | reason for the grand (piano) in the first place. That 2/4/93 Wedge is
> | SPECTACULAR imo.. but the 3/22/93 'Bag? Gamehendge show. Difficult
> | decisions, Darius. Very difficult. Do you still think the 2/4/93 Wedge
> | should be there instead of the triumphant 2/3/93 Cup, and the 3/22/93
> | 'Bag? I had to make a Choice.. and I cut the Wedge....
>
> No way in heck. Don't you remember when WEDGE was ___jammed out___,
> Charlie?!??? 2/4/93? 8/20/93? If we're talking changes or noteworthy
> moments in Phishtory, the Jammed Out Wedge should find its place somewhere.

My favorite Wedge is 3/25/93, fwiw. Check this one out. Great show,
with both a Kung chant and an Icculus wrapped inside a Forbin's >
Mockingbird. ObLaDi, ObLaDa teases in Antelope and Mike'sGroove. And a
sweet Wedge with the old piano intro.

> The idea of putting AC/DC BAG -- any version of AC/DC BAG -- in place of a
> jammed-out Wedge is laughable. Absolutely hilarious, actually. HA HA
> HAAAA!!!! (wheez) Why don't we put a fairly good version of SUZIE in
> there, while we're at it?? And a strong 1993 Chalkdust, too!

Damn, Darius! Finally, someone challenges the King on his own territory!

Whooo-rah!

;^)

> | Ok.. You're right.. I hope that fits. I'll do it!!! =^] Unless a
> | multitude disagrees.. (chime in, please, the few dozen of you that are
> | amused by all this as we are.. kill us)
>
> I don't think many are as amused by this as _I_ am. I'm laughing so hard
> my roomates think I'm nuts (they're not far off).

Ditto. But I am just getting over being sick; I have waaaaay too much
free time on my hands.

> | Are you shitting me, Darius!??!??? Do you have any idea how many letters
> | were sent to Mike regarding Camel Walk before this was played!? Do you
> | have any idea how many times Mike was asked to play CAMEL WALK AGAIN in
> | the lot at shows? I didn't think so.
>

> I don't care if half the planet requested CAMEL WALK -- why do people like
> this song?!?? I mean, it's amusing, but not worthy of writing Mike to
> bring back. In fact, I almost wrote Mike a letter to KILL IT when I heard
> the Sugarbush tapes ;-)

Agreed. I wouldn't put Camel Walk on there. I mean, hell, if there's
Camel Walk, then why not Timber Ho!? Where do we draw the line? Do I
have to remind you people that we are LIVING IN A SOCIETY???!!???!!!

> The only reason I suggested CASPIAN is because I know that at one point in
> summer '95 it was JAMMED -- i.e. Trey took a SOLO.

Does anyone know what show this is? I'd like to hear it.

> The fact that you didn't mention the 11/29/95 Slave with Bela...oh my oh
> my, oh my. (Voice of Gerhard's mother here) Charles Andrew Dirksen, I'm
> ashamed at you.

Allright, Darius and Rachel. I'm with you. Let's put together the
Phishtory Compendium: Tape 6, Guest Appearances. Why? Because anyone
who doesn't recognize the importance of guests when documenting Phishtory
is, IMNSFHO, evading and denying The Truth.

;^)

My suggestions:

1) 7/25/92 YEM and Funky Bitch with Carlos. Yeah, move that Bitch over here!
That'll free up some room on Tape Three. Just keep the Llama off! ;^)

2) 3/14/92 Sleeping Monkey and GTBT with Popper. Best Popper guest
appearance ever, IMHO. Fun stuff.

3) 5/5/93 with ARU. I've never heard it, but everyone raves about it.

4) 10/8/94 Simple with the cheerleaders

More to come...post your own...

Craig, PhD, non-VDSQ

******************************************************************************
Craig DeLucia "The people on the hill, they all say I'm
cde...@hubcap.clemson.edu lazy, but when they sleep I sing and dance."
Phi Kappa Tau ---Pete Townshend
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for: live Rugby Road, Bruce, Phish, yeP!, DBR, Seapods, Percy Hill
******************************************************************************


belenke

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Feb 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/2/97
to


On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, Craig D. DeLucia wrote:

(many snips)


>
> > The fact that you didn't mention the 11/29/95 Slave with Bela...oh my oh
> > my, oh my. (Voice of Gerhard's mother here) Charles Andrew Dirksen, I'm
> > ashamed at you.
>
> Allright, Darius and Rachel. I'm with you. Let's put together the
> Phishtory Compendium: Tape 6, Guest Appearances. Why? Because anyone
> who doesn't recognize the importance of guests when documenting Phishtory
> is, IMNSFHO, evading and denying The Truth.
>
> ;^)
>
> My suggestions:
>
> 1) 7/25/92 YEM and Funky Bitch with Carlos. Yeah, move that Bitch over here!
> That'll free up some room on Tape Three. Just keep the Llama off! ;^)

I so agree with this. I personally thinks that this YEM ranks
among the greatest. The duets that go on between Santana and Trey blow
me away! The are so in synch(sp?) with eachother!

> 2) 3/14/92 Sleeping Monkey and GTBT with Popper. Best Popper guest
> appearance ever, IMHO. Fun stuff.
>
> 3) 5/5/93 with ARU. I've never heard it, but everyone raves about it.
>
> 4) 10/8/94 Simple with the cheerleaders

THis is just funny as hell!

I'd have to add...


5) 12/11/95 While My Guitar Gently Weeps with Warren Hayens,

There is something very passionate in this rendition of the song
and it actully makes me look forward to the end of the tape so I can hear it.

6) 8/17/96 Brother with Ben and Jerry

I'll admit I haven't heard this yet, but just the idea of it
makes it all worth having on there

Also, I don't actually have taps of any of these, but something
with the Dude and other members of the old-school Phish team (i.e. Jah
Roy, Tom Marshall) would really make this representative of Phish's
growth and the people that came along with them. I think with a little more
work we can make an addition onto Charlie's five tape set, even if he
won't endorse it! ;)

-rachel

http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~belenke

Craig D. DeLucia

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Feb 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/2/97
to

On Sun, 2 Feb 1997, belenke wrote:
> I'd have to add...
>
> 5) 12/11/95 While My Guitar Gently Weeps with Warren Hayens,
>
> There is something very passionate in this rendition of the song
> and it actully makes me look forward to the end of the tape so I can hear it.

Absolutely.

> 6) 8/17/96 Brother with Ben and Jerry

Hmmm...it's already on Tape 5 as the "return of Brother," which, to me,
is more significant in Phishtory than the guest appearance. But as long
as it is included somewhere ;^)

> Also, I don't actually have taps of any of these, but something
> with the Dude and other members of the old-school Phish team (i.e. Jah
> Roy, Tom Marshall) would really make this representative of Phish's
> growth and the people that came along with them.

Agreed. How about (MEAT) the 12/29/96 Harpua? Or one of the old Nancy
Taube guest appearances? And I'd like to have The Proposal from 4/14/93
on here as well. 10/31/96 Jesus Left Chicago is probably a must-have as
well. Of course, if we were not limited by space, I'd certainly include
the entire West Palm CrossEyedAntelope with Karl Perazzo.

How about the Bob Gulotti Ya > Drums > Mar from Hartford this fall? I
like that one a bunch myself. I also like the Watchtower with DMB from
spring '94, but can see that one getting shot down.

And, if we are going for comic significance, the Stephen Wright Bell Jam
from the holiday Mule must be included ;^)

Craig

Darren Fitzpatrick

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Feb 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/2/97
to

> Feel free, as always, to mercilessly flame me if you think I did
> something egregiously ignorant and moronic (which is likely, given
> what little thought I've put into this), but also keep in mind the
> Difficulty involved here. I had to cut legitimate stuff. But what
> would YOU prioritize? It basically comes down to: WHAT ARE THE MOST
> HISTORICALLY RELEVANT 100 MINUTES for the [year(s)] period.

I won't criticize or flame, but rather, give my worthless opinion, where relevant

> RIDICULOUS? Clearly. But amuse yourself. Kinda sad, though, I admit.
> WHY is XX/XX/XX [Name of Song] historically important?
> What do you think????? (besides that I'm insane)

All opinion I guess, like someone mentioned before (I think it was Mr. Gelman) there is a fine line between
best live Phish and historically important Phish. I mean, if I complied a "best live Phish" list it would
include VERY little early stuff, in that, most of it sucks. Btw, my commentary is in parentheses.

Tape One (1984-1989)

12/01/84 ... Scarlet Begonnias -> Fire (Hendrix) -> FOTM ...

(very necessary, might wanna include Help>Slip>Ac/Dc bag as well)

10/30/85 Harry Hood (first version)
04/15/86 Prep School Hippie
12/06/86 Mike's Song > Little Drummer Boy > Whipping Post
08/21/87 Curtain > Slow "Rift" Jam
03/12/88 Tela
05/25/88 Harpua
08/06/88 You Enjoy Myself > Cities > Dave's Energy Guide > Cities
05/28/89 Sanity
10/20/89 Split Open and Melt
10/26/89 Fish's Gull Poem, No Dogs Allowed ...


Tape Two (1990-1991)

04/05/90 Tweezer
04/18/90 Jaegermeister


10/31/90 Reba
11/04/90 Manteca > Caravan > Manteca
12/28/90 Possum
04/11/91 Landlady > Destiny Unbound
04/27/91 Fluffhead
05/12/91 Antelope (E) (last song @ the Front)
07/21/91 Contact

07/26/91 ... You Enjoy Myself ...
10/28/91 Whipping Post (first Fish on fretless guitar! ;-)

11/21/91 Mike's Song > I Am Hydrogen > Weekapaug Groove
12/31/91 ... Auld Lang Syne > Runaway ...


Tape Three (1992-1993)

03/06/92 Signals
03/13/92 Antelope > BBFCFM > Antelope

04/18/92 Harry Hood
07/25/92 Funky Bitch (w/Carlos)

12/31/92 Mike's Song > Auld Lang Syne > Weekapaug Groove
02/03/93 Loving Cup
03/22/93 AC/DC Bag

05/08/93 ... Amazing Grace w/jam
08/13/93 ... Bathtub Gin ...
08/20/93 Slave
12/30/93 Mike's Song > Horse..
12/31/93 ... Auld Lang DWD Jam ...

(In '93 you might wanna include the "first killer" SOAMelt. It's historically important because Trey
considered ditching the song until that night. I believe it was 4-21-93.)

Tape Four (1994)

04/04/94 Landlady
05/07/94 ... Sparks > Jam > Makisupa > Sweet Emotion ...
05/27/94 Possum
06/17/94 OJ Poor Heart

06/26/94 Kung, DWD (sweet version, btw)
07/08/94 McGrupp
10/08/94 Guyute
10/31/94 WMGGW
11/18/94 Sweet Baby's Arms
11/22/94 Funky Bitch > JAM ...
12/29/94 ... Bowie ...

(Should include at least a snippet of one of the Epic Tweezers, in that they were historically important,
and the 4-8-94 It's Ice.)

Tape Five (1995-6)

05/16/95 Theme from the Bottom
06/26/95 ... DWD Jam > Free
07/02/95 Camel Walk

10/31/95 5:15
11/14/95 ... Stash ...
11/25/95 ... Switching Instr. Jam ... (BRIEF!) (*@$)
12/09/95 ... YEM ...
12/29/95 ...Gin > Real Me > Gin
12/31/95 JBGoode (E)
06/06/96 AC/DC Bag
07/12/96 "Ska Groove"
08/17/96 Brother
10/31/96 ... Houses -> Seen And Not Seen ... (just the segue)
11/02/96 ... Crosseyed & Painless ... (Permagroove section)

11/29/96 ... Taste ... (just the jam)

12/06/96 ... Harpua ... (just the opening)
12/31/96 Harry Hood

(OK. Have few comments here because I'm most familiar with this material. No doubt, 6-17-95 Jim should be
included as well as 11-22-95 Free. Those WERE historically important. Ditch JB Goode and SKA Groove. And,
where's the Simple>Jam!!!???!!! Those absolutely MUST be there. Might wanna do the 12-31-96
Simple>Swept>Steep>Hood. You also need a long Mike's>Jam and a Weekapaug>Jam thrown in somewhere.)

> Oh well. Kinda butchering those last tapes, eh? I can't do this..

It can be done. But not while butchering Simple ; > However, more needs to be added in the '93+ era and lotsa
stuff needs to be removed from the early tapes. I'm not sure how "historic" fits in to this compliation. I
mean, should something from their first show in Boston be included or MSG? Or are these musically historic
moments? If you simply included musically historic moments, the compliation can be narrowed down a great deal.

> I've spent almost two hours procrastinating.. blah.

That's a long time

> You can do better, so DO IT!

Well not really, maybe if I had more tapes...

Fitz

Matt Dan

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Feb 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/2/97
to

>
> > | Are you shitting me, Darius!??!??? Do you have any idea how many letters
> > | were sent to Mike regarding Camel Walk before this was played!? Do you
> > | have any idea how many times Mike was asked to play CAMEL WALK AGAIN in
> > | the lot at shows? I didn't think so.
> >
> > I don't care if half the planet requested CAMEL WALK -- why do people like
> > this song?!?? I mean, it's amusing, but not worthy of writing Mike to
> > bring back. In fact, I almost wrote Mike a letter to KILL IT when I heard
> > the Sugarbush tapes ;-)
>
> Agreed. I wouldn't put Camel Walk on there. I mean, hell, if there's
> Camel Walk, then why not Timber Ho!? Where do we draw the line? Do I
> have to remind you people that we are LIVING IN A SOCIETY???!!???!!!
>

Why not Timber Ho!? They still play it. Camel Walk was a pretty much
one time deal, something that won't come along again in the near future,
although we can hope. Besides, I don't see what you hate so much about
Camel Walk. I really enjoy it. In the same vein as this one time
reappearance of Camel Walk, the 4/15/94 Wolfman's>Alumni Blues is also a
glaring omission in my opinion, I listened to it this morning, and it is
quite a hot jam.

> 1) 7/25/92 YEM and Funky Bitch with Carlos. Yeah, move that Bitch over here!
> That'll free up some room on Tape Three. Just keep the Llama off! ;^)
>
> 2) 3/14/92 Sleeping Monkey and GTBT with Popper. Best Popper guest
> appearance ever, IMHO. Fun stuff.
>
> 3) 5/5/93 with ARU. I've never heard it, but everyone raves about it.
>
> 4) 10/8/94 Simple with the cheerleaders

I Don't know about this simple, it's not so great. If you are going to
have a guest tape, the guests should significantly contributeto the
song. Ialso have a point that needs clarification. Would you consider
GCH guests? What about the Halloween JLCs, is the Grippo and Gazaway
appearance guesting, or would you consider it to be the same as GCH.

That's about all I have to add for now.

Peace
Matt

P.S. I'd also like to say that the whole idea of a 500 minute phishtory
is ridiculous. I think that a 2000 hour history may be more appropriate,
if not even longer.

Charles Andrew Dirksen

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Feb 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/3/97
to

Darius Zelkha (darius...@OBERLIN.EDU) wrote:

: What?!?? Are there sbd. copies of 7/21/91 around??? OK, who's got 'em...


Did you mean to put a ;-) in here, Darius? 7/21/91 is one of the best
DSBDs I've heard (Phish DSBDs.. but it also compares with the crispy DSBDs
of the Dead in the 70s-80s.. crispy but with DEPTH).

7/21/91 Contact stays. That version is sooo hysterical. Carl Gerhard's
playing in particular is incredibly amusing.

: incredible, and downright _groundbreaking_ for '91. It makes many of the


: 1992 -> 1994 YEMs look like Green Day, for christ's sake.

Oh heck, it makes several of the 1995-6 YEMs look like Green Day, too.
Ok. If you and Craig think it should be on there, then fine. No problem.
It is one of my favorite YEMs as you know, and it certainly kicks
7/26/91's butt (even if it doesn't have horns). The 7/21/91 Contact is
sufficient, imo.

: Ok, I guess I'd go with the 3/13/92 Antelope over the 4/17/92 Bowie,


: historically speaking. In terms of the Reba, look at your tape case again,
: Charlie, and tell me that there aren't tons of little stars and exclamation


Don't get me started on Reba.. it is probably my favorite Phish song.
It has certainly changed over the years, but that's why I put 10/31/90 on
there, as well as .. DOH.. I meant to stick a great Reba from '94-'96 on
there somewhere. Hmm.. (just the jam segment of course! ;) I guess Theme
of 5/16/95 should be knocked out in favor of Reba... then again. Agh.
Something will have to be dropped completely otherwise. Yeah, to hell
with the 5/16/95 Theme, even though I love it. That was a historic show
for the new tunes, of course, but it was also a benefit and the first show
of 95 right? Maybe theme should be kept.. and I could squeeze a different
version of Reba in somewhere. Like 8/16/93(?) or something.. or 6/19/94..
or 10/21/95.. or 10/31/94.. naaaw.. I dunno.

: Charlie?!??? 2/4/93? 8/20/93? If we're talking changes or noteworthy


: moments in Phishtory, the Jammed Out Wedge should find its place somewhere.

Ok.. Craig suggested 3/25/93. I think I still have that somewhere.

: The idea of putting AC/DC BAG -- any version of AC/DC BAG -- in place of a
: jammed-out Wedge is laughable. Absolutely hilarious, actually. HA HA

Gamehendge show, Darius. Gamehendge show. I'm not blowing off the
3/22/93 show entirely. It just can't be done. Oh hell.. maybe the Reba
from that show.. ;) Of course it isn't a Gamehendge tune. Need a
Gamehendge tune. Mockingbird.

: HAAAA!!!! (wheez) Why don't we put a fairly good version of SUZIE in


: there, while we're at it?? And a strong 1993 Chalkdust, too!

Oh Good One..

: I don't care if half the planet requested CAMEL WALK -- why do people like


: this song?!?? I mean, it's amusing, but not worthy of writing Mike to
: bring back. In fact, I almost wrote Mike a letter to KILL IT when I heard
: the Sugarbush tapes ;-)

Oh hardy har har.. I'll just stick the sugarbush timber ho on there
instead then. There must be something from the last sugarbush shows.

: The only reason I suggested CASPIAN is because I know that at one point in


: summer '95 it was JAMMED -- i.e. Trey took a SOLO. I haven't listened to

Bllllghhhh.. jammed. Like Reba and Tweezer were jammed in 1990... BFD.

;)

: 8/6/96 in a while, but I'm happy that you remember some things about this


: show, Charlie -- does this make it above average??? ;-)

That show is still average at best, Darius. 8/6/96 was an average
typically great phish show at best. I've seen plenty of more exciting
shows.

(and heard many more exciting shows from even 1996.. I still love those
versions of caspian and tweezer from that 8/6/96 show.. )

: I forgot: you want to make the last tape nothing but pieces of segments of
: jams. Wow. Fun. Neat. Why don't we just pick certain MEASURES of music
: we like and slap them on? We could even use a couple measures from that
: Disgrace Known As CAMEL WALK if you'd like. Only the "jam", of course.

Oh HARDY HAR HAR.. Seriously, I'm sick of a lot of opening composed
segments of songs. I fully admit it. We are concerned about SPACE though
with these tapes. I mean, christ, fuck the opening few minutes of a lot
of the jamming tunes. They almost never change.. it is the jamming that
matters. I know few people out there agree. I'd love it if, at least
once, Phish decided to skip the opening 6 minutes of Reba and just start
with the jam segment, and add another 6 minutes of the jam to the version.
=^]

: The fact that you didn't mention the 11/29/95 Slave with Bela...oh my oh
: my, oh my. (Voice of Gerhard's mother here) Charles Andrew Dirksen, I'm
: ashamed at you.

Like that was a complete list. Give me a break. And besides, the 10/94
stuff with Bela is more exciting than that, fwiw. I think 10/18/94 is the
date.. llama. Scent. I should probably stick that 10/18/94 llama onto the
tapes, now that I think about it.

bah

dirk420


Darius Zelkha

unread,
Feb 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/3/97
to

***I posted this a few days ago, but have not seen it on the 'group (but
have seen Craig reply to it, which is weird), so I'm going to post it
again. My apologies for the possibly-wasted bandwidth.***


Charles Andrew Dirksen wrote:

> THE Darius Zelkha of Oberlin.edu followed up to CD's lame ones:
>
> : > Tape Two (1990-1991)
> : >
> : > 04/05/90 Tweezer
> : > 04/18/90 Jaegermeister
>
> : Throw in LLAMA from 10/30/90 (I think that date is right) here. It's
> : the 2nd time ever played and performed probably about HALF as fast as
> : it's played nowadays.
>
> That would mean that Llama would have to be put on another tape as an
> example of how it had "evolved." How many shows did you see in 1993?
>
> Next.
>
> ;-)
>
> (sorry.. inside "joke")

"Ha ha." (to answer your question, one show).

;-)

> I considered the Prison Joke, but opted for the Gull (sic.. I meant GALL)


> poem. For obvious reasons. Contact 7/21/91 is the greatest version of
> Contact I've ever heard, and is on one of the most widely distributed
> tapes in Phishtory. (excuse me, SHOWS in phishtory) Don't you think so?
> Haven't you heard it!?!?? ;)

What?!?? Are there sbd. copies of 7/21/91 around??? OK, who's got
'em...

>I talked to Gerhard's mother about this show


> about two years ago.. she was there. Even SHE knows about how glorious
> this show is.. What's wrong with you!? ;) She had a Great Time!!!!

Obviously, the words of Mama Gerhard should be taken as gospel.

Anyway, sure, this version of Contact (which I _have_ heard ;-) rocks
the house. OK, leave it on; I guess SOMETHING from Arrowhead should be
on the 500 min. of Phishtory, seeing as this may be The Most Circulated
Tape in Phishtory.

> : The 11/16/91 YEM is ESSENTIAL here, Charlie.


>
> I disagree. I considered it, but given the other YEMs on the tapes..
> naah. 7/26/91 has a fantastic jam segment with the horns. Even though I
> personally prefer 11/16/91, I thought it more historically important that
> it be there and not 11/16/91 (I suck). Just because Marcie Dergel and Tom
> Marshall were at the Bayou that night doesn't necessarily make it a
> Historical show. =^] That YEM is the greatest YEM (11/16/91) up through
> 11/16/91 I think... but still, Darius. Thinking historically.. I mean,
> shit, if we are talking Great Jam Segments, I'd need a few thousand more
> minutes for this project. We have to be discriminating. Or we should be,
> at least. Right?

Wrong. Very wrong. If we're talking HISTORY (or, Phishtory), then I

think this YEM is clearly Historical. I mean, shit Charlie, Trey
actually mentions it as such in an interview (the one from late '91 in
MA done by Shelly), and how often does Trey mention PARTICULAR versions
of PARTICULAR songs?!?? Besides, as you point out, the jam segment in

this YEM is truly incredible, and downright _groundbreaking_ for '91.

It makes many of the 1992 -> 1994 YEMs look like Green Day, for christ's
sake.

;-)

The 11/16/91 YEM stays.

>

> : > Tape Three (1992-1993)
> : >
> : > 03/06/92 Signals
> : > 03/13/92 Antelope > BBFCFM > Antelope
>
> : 4/17/92 Reba or Bowie -> Catapult (1st ever) -> Bowie here, no question.
>
> Well, actually. As you probably gathered, there's not enough room for it
> given the other Historical Moments involved. Even though this is very
> well played, it was basically either this or 3/13/92, and welll.. would
> you really choose this 4/17/92 Wonder over the 3/13/92 masterpiece?
> Victor, do you want to chime in here? The 4/17/92 Bowie and the 3/13/92
> Antelope are clearly Classics. But. If forced to chooose!? I'd have to
> go with the 3/13/92 Antelope.. (clearly) But that's just me. What do YOU
> think? Anyone? Buehler? Kill me.

Ok, I guess I'd go with the 3/13/92 Antelope over the 4/17/92 Bowie,

historically speaking. In terms of the Reba, look at your tape case
again, Charlie, and tell me that there aren't tons of little stars and

exclamation points next to this Reba. I thought so. But in terms of

PHISHTORY, you're right, screw it. It doesn't represent any milestone,
though it is some of the best stuff Phish has ever done, IMO. But for
the sake of appeasing the King, we'll leave it out. Just don't hurt me.

> What do you think the 2/3/93 'Cup is in here for!?? The 'Cup was the
> reason for the grand (piano) in the first place. That 2/4/93 Wedge is
> SPECTACULAR imo.. but the 3/22/93 'Bag? Gamehendge show. Difficult
> decisions, Darius. Very difficult. Do you still think the 2/4/93 Wedge
> should be there instead of the triumphant 2/3/93 Cup, and the 3/22/93
> 'Bag? I had to make a Choice.. and I cut the Wedge....

No way in heck. Don't you remember when WEDGE was ___jammed out___,

Charlie?!??? 2/4/93? 8/20/93? If we're talking changes or noteworthy
moments in Phishtory, the Jammed Out Wedge should find its place
somewhere.

The idea of putting AC/DC BAG -- any version of AC/DC BAG -- in place of

a jammed-out Wedge is laughable. Absolutely hilarious, actually. HA HA

HAAAA!!!! (wheez) Why don't we put a fairly good version of SUZIE in
there, while we're at it?? And a strong 1993 Chalkdust, too!

;-)

Seriously, though, I think a jammed-out 1993 Wedge has its place in the
Phishtory books.

> Ok.. You're right.. I hope that fits. I'll do it!!! =^] Unless a
> multitude disagrees.. (chime in, please, the few dozen of you that are
> amused by all this as we are.. kill us)

I don't think many are as amused by this as _I_ am. I'm laughing so

hard my roomates think I'm nuts (they're not far off).

>

> : > 07/02/95 Camel Walk
>
> : Blech. No way. Get Camel Walk (aka Waste of Tape Space) out of here
> : and put something like the jammed version of CASPIAN (can't think of the
> : date off-hand, but it's summer '95) in here in its place.
>
> Are you shitting me, Darius!??!??? Do you have any idea how many letters
> were sent to Mike regarding Camel Walk before this was played!? Do you
> have any idea how many times Mike was asked to play CAMEL WALK AGAIN in
> the lot at shows? I didn't think so.

Actually, I do. Answers:

1) 1567
2) 420

I don't care if half the planet requested CAMEL WALK -- why do people

like this song?!?? I mean, it's amusing, but not worthy of writing Mike
to bring back. In fact, I almost wrote Mike a letter to KILL IT when I
heard the Sugarbush tapes ;-)

>CASPIAN!!?? Are you NUTS!? ;) The


> only jammed out version of Caspian is Red Rocks 8/6/96 and you know it.
> Go ahead. I dare you to listen to your favorite summer '95 Caspian and
> weigh it against 8/6/96. ;) (cough) (ack) (wheeze) Caspian. (spit)
>
> We're talking CAMEL WALK here. BRING EM BACK FROM THE DEAD I SAY..

The only reason I suggested CASPIAN is because I know that at one point

in summer '95 it was JAMMED -- i.e. Trey took a SOLO. I haven't

listened to 8/6/96 in a while, but I'm happy that you remember some

things about this show, Charlie -- does this make it above average???
;-)

(inside "joke" referring to the battle we waged after the Red Rocks run
over the importance of this show).

> Blllgggh.. The only Taste that matters is the jam segment of 11/29/96. ;)
> You were there. Remember!?? That was when you had LONG HAIR, man!

Funny you should use the word "Remember" in this stippet -- because I

_DIDN'T_ HAVE LONG HAIR THEN! That was the show that I came up to you
(w/ SHORT hair) and all you gave me was a blank stare, until I said
hello and _RE-introduced_ myself. "Remember", Charlie?!???!

;-)


> : > 11/29/96 ... Taste ... (just the jam)
>
> : Forget "just the jam." We need a version of the AWESOME WAY TASTE IS
> : NOW BEING PLAYED (thanks for the great changes, Phish!!!), all the way
> : through. Put ALL of the 11/29/96 TASTE on there.
>
> No. There isn't enough SPACE. We have to think SPACE here, Darius. 500
> minutes!??!? This is a challenge. Are we up to it!?!?? I don't know. I
> think we suck. You bagged Camel Walk from one of the LAST SUGARBUSH SHOWS
> IN VERMONT for fucking Caspian. Why am I talking to you?! (oh yeah.. I
> respect your opinions.. :) Two cents.. IS two cents.. after all.. )

I forgot: you want to make the last tape nothing but pieces of segments

of jams. Wow. Fun. Neat. Why don't we just pick certain MEASURES of
music we like and slap them on? We could even use a couple measures
from that Disgrace Known As CAMEL WALK if you'd like. Only the "jam",
of course.

;-)

> I told Rachel that I couldn't IN GOOD FAITH make a tape of Guests with
> Phish, since there were only a couple Events that included Guests that I
> truly thought were Musically Worthy... 5/5/93 YEM with ARU, practically
> everything with Karl Perazzo or Butch Trucks.. the WMGGW with Warren
> Haynes.. everything with Santana.. =^]

The fact that you didn't mention the 11/29/95 Slave with Bela...oh my oh

my, oh my. (Voice of Gerhard's mother here) Charles Andrew Dirksen, I'm
ashamed at you.

(ack)
(cough)
(laugh)

This was the most fun I've had all day (seriously). Kill me.

;-)

All in good Fun,

Darius, short-haired since 10/21/96

PS: If, for some reason, this gets posted twice, it's because my
Netscape is smoking crack.

--

darius...@oberlin.edu
http://www.oberlin.edu/~dzelkha/

han...@panther.middlebury.edu

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Feb 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/3/97
to dirk...@dons.ac.usfca.edu

In article <5d39tk$k...@jeeves.usfca.edu>,
dirk...@dons.ac.usfca.edu ( Charles Andrew Dirksen) wrote:
> Darius wrote:
> : The idea of putting AC/DC BAG -- any version of AC/DC BAG -- in

> : place of a jammed-out Wedge is laughable. Absolutely hilarious,
> : actually.
>
> Gamehendge show, Darius. Gamehendge show. I'm not blowing off the
> 3/22/93 show entirely. It just can't be done. Oh hell.. maybe the
> Reba from that show.. ;) Of course it isn't a Gamehendge tune. Need
> a Gamehendge tune. Mockingbird.

Do you have to include something from every Gamehendge show? (Maybe you
didn't -- I know you've got something from both the 94 Gamehendge shows,
but I don't know the dates of the others to check).

To stretch the point further -- do you need to include songs just because
a *show* was historic (rather than to represent something larger about
the way Phish has evolved)? Many "historic" shows are historic because
they are different from the "typical" Phish show -- Gamehendge shows,
covering an album, bringing back a rare tune. These should be
represented, but not OVER-represented, in my opinion -- if they are
over-represented, they lose their magic as something unusual. And you
lose the opportunity to convey other things about Phish.

I'm not sure you can convey that a *show* was unusual or historic in a
compilation such as this. A Gamehendge show is special not because of a
single tune, but because of a set of tunes played in a certain order
linked by storytelling. Timber Ho! and Camel Walk were special at
Sugarbush because they had been absent for so long -- I suspect the
significance was lost on anyone not already familiar with some
Phishstory.

(And the magic of a venue is lost on tape already, except in stories like
Harpua or other stage banter. Hey -- if you feel the need to represent
Sugarbush in some way, why don't you stick in Trey's request that the
people who wandered in without tickets at least donate some money to the
Burlington teen center that the show benefited. That statement sums up
the historic importance of Sugarbush as the last place in Vermont left
for Phish to play... :( )

Kim

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet

Charles Andrew Dirksen

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Feb 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/3/97
to

Kim Hannula wrote:

| Do you have to include something from every Gamehendge show? (Maybe you
| didn't -- I know you've got something from both the 94 Gamehendge shows,
| but I don't know the dates of the others to check).

Yes we do have to include something from every time gamehendge was played.
I honestly don't care much for Gamehendge (ooouuu), but I can't deny its
phistorical merit. I'd like to, but I can't. To deny the importance of
Gamehendge in Phistory would be like denying the importance of shows that
open with HelpSlipFranks in the first and with ScarletFire in the second.
Can't be done. At least, it can't be done legitimately.

| represented, but not OVER-represented, in my opinion -- if they are
| over-represented, they lose their magic as something unusual. And you
| lose the opportunity to convey other things about Phish.

Kim, these are tapes about Phishtory. Every reference is supposed to
represent "something unusual," something of somewhat profound historical
value from a given year. I think I'm confused by the thrust of your
question. What "other things" ought to be conveyed, that ALSO have
historical value? I'm all ears.. Wedge w/the piano intro? Done. I'll
stick 3/25/93 in there and put just the jam segment of the 3/22/93
mockingbird in there, or something short from that Gamehendge set. ;)
Can kill two birds with.. forget it. There simply has to be some piece of
every Gamehendge show in there..

| I'm not sure you can convey that a *show* was unusual or historic in a
| compilation such as this. A Gamehendge show is special not because of a
| single tune, but because of a set of tunes played in a certain order

Absolutely. But the DATES of the Gamehendge show have historic value.
Any even somewhat anal-retentive fan knows 3/22/93, 6/26/94, 7/8/94..
3/12/88. The whole notion of the tapes is RIDICULOUS, after all.
Under the circumstances, I am forced to cut boring composed segments that
don't change in favor of samples of jams, and to have clips of important
shows/events and not the whole bloody thing.

I'm not making these tapes for anyone in particular. If the significance
of something is lost on someone they can learn about why it is/was
significant. For the clueless people at Sugarbush who weren't losing
their shit during Camel Walk and Timber Ho (and I do remember THOSE
people), I bet they know the bloody significance now. ;) Live and learn.
Those are the same people who go EXTRA crazy when Brother and Timber Ho
are played now (evil, cynical Jabba-the-Hut laughter).

| Sugarbush in some way, why don't you stick in Trey's request that the
| people who wandered in without tickets at least donate some money to the
| Burlington teen center that the show benefited. That statement sums up
| the historic importance of Sugarbush as the last place in Vermont left
| for Phish to play... :( )

That's a good point, Kim. That Timber Ho wasn't that great anyway.. ;)

Now I'm sad.

Thanks.

;)

charlie


Kim Hannula

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Feb 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/4/97
to

I'm rearranging what Charlie wrote to attempt to give my response at least
the vague semblance of coherence...

Charlie Dirksen wrote:

|Kim, these are tapes about Phishtory. Every reference is supposed to
|represent "something unusual," something of somewhat profound historical
|value from a given year. I think I'm confused by the thrust of your
|question.

I'm scared to even open this can of worms (for fear that Charlie will force
me to eat them, squirmy live nasty things, eeeeuuuuuuuwwww!), but... I
think we're defining musical history differently.

I imagine the purpose of a 5-tape set of the history of Phish to be to
illustrate the evolution of Phish's music. Not to document unusual
moments, but to show how the band has evolved through time. To fit all
that onto 500 minutes of tape, you have to choose examples that illustrate
the range of what Phish has played at any point in time. A tape of
historic moments could also be fun to make, and if you want to make it,
that's fine, but it wasn't what I had in mind when I asked if you could
imagine a 5-tape history of phish ;-) (The scary can of worms is the
question of whether the unusual is necessarily more "historic" than
everyday slow changes. But I didn't ask. Really.)

(Random aside -- I don't think historic/nonhistoric is a binary system.
You could rate shows based on historic value as well as on length and width
if you wanted. That way you could differentiate between shows that were
great for one spectacular jam, shows that were solid, and shows in which
bizarre but musically unimpressive things occurred. Make those ratings
three-dimensional.)

|Yes we do have to include something from every time gamehendge was played.
|I honestly don't care much for Gamehendge (ooouuu), but I can't deny its
|phistorical merit. I'd like to, but I can't. To deny the importance of
|Gamehendge in Phistory would be like denying the importance of shows that
|open with HelpSlipFranks in the first and with ScarletFire in the second.
|Can't be done. At least, it can't be done legitimately.

The whole Gamehendge thing is an important part of the history of Phish's
music, but I'm not sure you need to represent part of every show at which
it was played. You wouldn't put part of every show that had ScarletFire
opening the second set on a 5-tape history of the Dead, either. I think
Gamehendge is important as a period of songwriting, and as an example of
Trey's live storytelling, and therefore ought to be represented on a 5-tape
history of Phish's music, but I don't think that every Gamehendge show
needs to be represented.

|Absolutely. But the DATES of the Gamehendge show have historic value.
|Any even somewhat anal-retentive fan knows 3/22/93, 6/26/94, 7/8/94..
|3/12/88.

You're missing one. Olympia, Washington. Don't ask me the date -- I don't
remember those sorts of things. I'm not even somewhat anal retentive.

|What "other things" ought to be conveyed, that ALSO have historical value?

You know I can't give specific examples. A general example? Something
like Page's solos when everyone else leaves the stage (like the end of
Coil, or the 12/28/96 Weekapaug). Frequent enough to be clearly part of
what Phish's music is -- though you could choose a particularly good one
(don't ask me; I prefer to listen to Page's playing interacting with the
rest of the group).

|significant. For the clueless people at Sugarbush who weren't losing
|their shit during Camel Walk and Timber Ho (and I do remember THOSE
|people), I bet they know the bloody significance now. ;) Live and learn.

Some of them still would take a well-played jam over a poorly-played rarity
;-) Heck, some of them prefer a well-played Bouncing to a poorly-played
rarity ;-)

Kim

Dan Purcell

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Feb 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/4/97
to

Craig DeLucia mediated between Charlie Dirksen and Darius Zelkha:

: > | What do you think the 2/3/93 'Cup is in here for!?? The 'Cup was the


: > | reason for the grand (piano) in the first place. That 2/4/93 Wedge
: > | is SPECTACULAR imo.. but the 3/22/93 'Bag? Gamehendge show.
: > | Difficult decisions, Darius. Very difficult. Do you still think
: > | the 2/4/93 Wedge should be there instead of the triumphant 2/3/93
: > | Cup, and the 3/22/93 'Bag? I had to make a Choice.. and I cut the
: > | Wedge....
: >
: > No way in heck. Don't you remember when WEDGE was ___jammed out___,
: > Charlie?!??? 2/4/93? 8/20/93? If we're talking changes or noteworthy
: > moments in Phishtory, the Jammed Out Wedge should find its place
: > somewhere.

: My favorite Wedge is 3/25/93, fwiw. Check this one out. Great show,
: with both a Kung chant and an Icculus wrapped inside a Forbin's >
: Mockingbird. ObLaDi, ObLaDa teases in Antelope and Mike'sGroove. And a
: sweet Wedge with the old piano intro.

Calling The Wedge "jammed out" is a little misleading. Sure, it used to
have a piano intro and a mid-song piano solo, which it no longer does.
But oftentimes that soloing sounded a little disjointed, and the band had
more than its share of trouble with the groove. Both 3/25/93 and 8/20/93,
which I like a great deal, are hardly examples of Phish at its smoothest
and most ear-catching. They're perfectly pleasant, of course, but I dunno
if that merits a place in the Final 500 Minutes.

: > The idea of putting AC/DC BAG -- any version of AC/DC BAG -- in place


: > of a jammed-out Wedge is laughable. Absolutely hilarious, actually.
: > HA HA HAAAA!!!! (wheez) Why don't we put a fairly good version of
: > SUZIE in there, while we're at it?? And a strong 1993 Chalkdust, too!

: Damn, Darius! Finally, someone challenges the King on his own territory!

Is that something to be proud of, though? ;-) At any rate, as I noted
above, I'd hardly call the '93 Wedges "jammed out." There are certainly
plenty of recent Bags that feature far more "jamming" than any '93 Wedges.

: > | Are you shitting me, Darius!??!??? Do you have any idea how many


: > | letters were sent to Mike regarding Camel Walk before this was
: > | played!? Do you have any idea how many times Mike was asked to play
: > | CAMEL WALK AGAIN in the lot at shows? I didn't think so.
: >
: > I don't care if half the planet requested CAMEL WALK -- why do people
: > like this song?!?? I mean, it's amusing, but not worthy of writing
: > Mike to bring back. In fact, I almost wrote Mike a letter to KILL IT
: > when I heard the Sugarbush tapes ;-)

: Agreed. I wouldn't put Camel Walk on there. I mean, hell, if there's
: Camel Walk, then why not Timber Ho!? Where do we draw the line? Do I
: have to remind you people that we are LIVING IN A SOCIETY???!!???!!!

That 7/3/95 Timber Ho! was pretty cool, too, with the subtle little segue
into Bowie, but it's hardly awesome for a Timber! Camel Walk, at least,
was a *rare* and unique moment in Phishstory, so I'd vote for Camel Walk
over Timber Ho!, but I doubt either of them would make my cut.

: > The only reason I suggested CASPIAN is because I know that at one


: > point in summer '95 it was JAMMED -- i.e. Trey took a SOLO.

: Does anyone know what show this is? I'd like to hear it.

I think the version Darius is referring to is the debut of Caspian, 6/8/95
in Salt Lake. I was at the show, and was notably disappointed two nights
later when the band did Caspian at Red Rocks sans solo (that 6/10/95
Caspian is probably the worst version of the song ever played, with Trey
laughing his ass off at the band's inability to hit the harmonies).

But the Salt Lake version isn't really *jammed*, either. Trey takes a
40-second or so solo toward the end that's remarkably tentative. The
intro is also different and slightly longer, almost as if the song wasn't
really written yet. (After it ended, Trey commented that the band had
"*just* written that one," so maybe it had just been composed backstage.)
Salt Lake is probably my favorite summer '95 Caspian, but it's hardly a
model of Phish jamming.

And you simply GOTTA have the 8/15/93 Stash on there. (Get rid of the
8/20/93 Slave, which was mediocre, and replace it with the 10/31/94 Slave,
which was a marvel of subtlety, nuance, and balls-to-the-wall power, all
at the same time.) And the 11/30/94 Antelope -> Fixin' to Die. And the
12/8/94 Simple. And the...

This is clearly a losing battle.

NP: Mr. Bungle, _Mr. Bungle_, "My Ass Is on Fire"


Dan...


Craig D. DeLucia

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Feb 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/4/97
to

On 4 Feb 1997, Dan Purcell wrote:
> Craig DeLucia mediated between Charlie Dirksen and Darius Zelkha:
> : My favorite Wedge is 3/25/93, fwiw. Check this one out. Great show,
> : with both a Kung chant and an Icculus wrapped inside a Forbin's >
> : Mockingbird. ObLaDi, ObLaDa teases in Antelope and Mike'sGroove. And a
> : sweet Wedge with the old piano intro.
>
> Calling The Wedge "jammed out" is a little misleading. Sure, it used to
> have a piano intro and a mid-song piano solo, which it no longer does.
> But oftentimes that soloing sounded a little disjointed, and the band had
> more than its share of trouble with the groove.

Very true, Dan. But it was certainly more interesting of a song back
then. To me, the purpose of these 500 Minutes is to spotlight Phish at
different phases, with what they were doing with certain songs. Since
Wedge is such a rarity and we haven't heard anything like a '93 Wedge in
a long time, I think it should stay.

> : Agreed. I wouldn't put Camel Walk on there. I mean, hell, if there's

> : Camel Walk, then why not Timber Ho!? Where do we draw the line? Do I
> : have to remind you people that we are LIVING IN A SOCIETY???!!???!!!
>

> That 7/3/95 Timber Ho! was pretty cool, too, with the subtle little segue
> into Bowie, but it's hardly awesome for a Timber! Camel Walk, at least,
> was a *rare* and unique moment in Phishstory, so I'd vote for Camel Walk
> over Timber Ho!, but I doubt either of them would make my cut.

Neither of them make mine.

> And you simply GOTTA have the 8/15/93 Stash on there. (Get rid of the
> 8/20/93 Slave, which was mediocre, and replace it with the 10/31/94 Slave,
> which was a marvel of subtlety, nuance, and balls-to-the-wall power, all
> at the same time.) And the 11/30/94 Antelope -> Fixin' to Die. And the
> 12/8/94 Simple. And the...

If we're going for historical Phish, drop the 8/20/93 Slave and replace
it with the 8/6/93 Return of Slave. Great second set, btw, with the
YEM > Cocaine > Vox Jam > Halley's, as well as Tequilla teases throughout.

> This is clearly a losing battle.

See what happens when you fight the secret agenda?

Craig

Charles Andrew Dirksen

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Feb 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/5/97
to

Kim Hannula wrote:

| I imagine the purpose of a 5-tape set of the history of Phish to be to
| illustrate the evolution of Phish's music. Not to document unusual
| moments, but to show how the band has evolved through time.

Well, as I'm sure you noticed, the tapes tried to capture that in numerous
ways, with many versions of Harry and MikeS and Tweezer and so forth. But
I also wanted to throw in stuff from shows of historical import. And
that's what I did. I could of course change all of the tapes to reflect,
strictly, Phish's musical evolution. (or at least try to) But I thought
it would be more interesting to weakly try to sum up Phistory as opposed
to "The Evolution of Phish's Music" in 500 minutes. That's all.

| imagine a 5-tape history of phish ;-) (The scary can of worms is the
| question of whether the unusual is necessarily more "historic" than
| everyday slow changes. But I didn't ask. Really.)

What is an "everyday slow" change is necessarily not "unusual" but common.
"Historic" means "historic," not "everyday slow changes." A tape of all
the Reba jam segments from 1994-5 would still be enjoyable, imo.. =^]

| (Random aside -- I don't think historic/nonhistoric is a binary system.
| You could rate shows based on historic value as well as on length and width
| if you wanted. That way you could differentiate between shows that were
| great for one spectacular jam, shows that were solid, and shows in which
| bizarre but musically unimpressive things occurred. Make those ratings
| three-dimensional.)

We can add a fourth dimension, i.e., whether or not Trey got on the mini
percussion kit at any point, or a fifth dimension, whether Fish played any
vacuum or fretless guitar or trombone or washboard...

Seriously, though, the 500 minute tapes, as I said in that post, looked at
historical importance, which included the evolution of certain major
jamming tunes. But sure, I left out a lot of material relating to musical
evolution. Like those old Wedges in '93 vs. the new ones.. or even the
original versions of songs like Rift and Tela.. which changed ENORMOUSLY
within a year or two (or whatever it was).

Intersubjective agreement makes something historical.. one can't really
get that immediately after a show. Especially from those at the show.
Look at Vancouver. Lots of COMPLETE SHIT IMPROV and yet, the show was
undoubtedly FANTASTIC to experience *live* by all accounts. Historic?
Bullshit. A Great Show to See Live? Absolutely. Do I regreat mentioning
Vancouver in the same breath as Halloween, 8/16/96, West Palm, and
12/31/96 ? Absolutely. Will I regret it with Vegas? Almost definitely
not. Vegas is necessarily an historic show given the venue and what
happened there.. all the guests, the mega-"encore." Blah blah blah

| Trey's live storytelling, and therefore ought to be represented on a 5-tape
| history of Phish's music, but I don't think that every Gamehendge show
| needs to be represented.

I completely disagree. When you are talking about the history of Phish,
failing to at least note the Gamehendge performances is a sin. You might
as well skip over the trip to Egypt in the late 70s if you are talking
Dead history. Of course, if one is making 500 minutes of the evolution of
Phish's music, then I'd certainly agree with you.

| >Absolutely. But the DATES of the Gamehendge show have historic value.
| >Any even somewhat anal-retentive fan knows 3/22/93, 6/26/94, 7/8/94..
| >3/12/88.
|
| You're missing one. Olympia, Washington. Don't ask me the date -- I don't
| remember those sorts of things. I'm not even somewhat anal retentive.

10/13/91 North Shore.. yeah. That doesn't count, though, if I recall.
That first set had a lot of Gamehendge tunes, but I think it was missing a
couple and wasn't a straight run-through. It is available on low gen sbd,
though. ;) I don't consider it a Gamehendge set, and I honestly don't
care what anyone else thinks, except maybe Dean (grabs Manual). Dean
impliedly calls 10/13/91 a "near miss" but I disagree. Without Lizards,
it ain't fuckin Gamehendge. ;-) And there's no Lizards on 10/13/91 right?

| Some of them still would take a well-played jam over a poorly-played rarity
| ;-) Heck, some of them prefer a well-played Bouncing to a poorly-played
| rarity ;-)

hahahaha.. that's certainly true. I'd take a well-played jam over a
poorly-played rarity, too! And hey, what was poorly played? If I recall,
Camel Walk at Sugarbush was actually more well-played than most of the
rest of the tunes at that gig. And Timber (Jerry) was grrrreeeaaat!
(well, at the time.. ;).

And besides, anyone who prefers a well-played Bouncin' to a poorly-played
rarity needs to be strapped to a chair and forced to listen repeatedly to
the "All Along the Watchtower" of 10/22/96 with Buddy Miles until they
repent..
;)

KingMoron420


Kentalope

unread,
Feb 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/7/97
to

In article <5cv2c1$m...@jeeves.usfca.edu>, dirk...@dons.ac.usfca.edu ( Charles
Andrew Dirksen) wrote:
>
>And hey.. if you think that Sacto Possum with John and Peter is good,
>check out 5/17/92, with JUST PHISH. (insert Homer voice) It KICKS THAT
>SACTO POSSUM'S BUTT!

In my humblest of all opinions, Possum just can't be played without John
McEuen anymore. Not to say that the structure of the song in and of itself
has had its incredible moments (dare I mention the multiple orgasms of
8/16/93? Indeed I do), but McEuen's slide put the song into perspective for
me. Phish can tense up and release all they want, but the questionable void
to me has been filled by the oh-so-majestic lap-steel. It was like the razz
in the berry.. the lungs in a bison.. the curbfeelers on the caddy..
And now that I'm spoiled with the tape, all Possums will be like
the hotdog without the bun.. the gonads without the SACK(tm)...

Okay, maybe not THAT bad..


Whatever you do, take care of your rickets,

\\ Kentalope //

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