Left Handed Drumming
DaManfred Mann
it got around to Don Henley and a guy told me about his son starting to
play drums. The kid is left handed and he wondered about whether to set
up the kit right, or left.
I never replied and we never finished the discussion. I didn't mean to
blow it of, I'm sorry, I've had a lot going on lately, but I think it
was back in mid August, maybe.
Anyway, I looked back, but I couldn't find the thread, so if the guy who
I was discussing this with (or anyone else, for that matter) wants to
finish that discussion, I'd be happy to. I just forgot about it and
remembered it today.
Later,
Dave
SteveO
I've seen lefties both learn to play with the conventional kit set up
and with a reversed kit. In my experiences, it's a 50/50 type
situation. Most lefties are certainly better at learning to be
ambidextrous than most righties, so this might be beneficial for a
drummer, more so than a guitar or bass player that can bring their own
instrument along. In educational and rehearsal situations, there will
almost always be a drum kit in the room so that a drummer doesn't have
to cart theirs along - it would be a real pain in the ass having to
switch up the drum kit before and after every session.
-Steve O.
DaManfred Mann
The other point is that it's easier to learn from watching other
drummers, if you can relate to it without having to mentally reverse
everything.
But there is something to be said for playing how you feel most natural
and comfortable.
Dave
SteveO
> drummers, if you can relate to it without having to mentally reverse
> everything.
> Dave
That's a funny situation. As a guitar player, I've had lefty guitar
teachers (I'm righty), and it's easier for me to learn from the
lefties because it's a mirror image of the fretboard. The same works
for drummers. A lefty drummer can watch a mirror image of a righty
drummer without having to reverse - the righties have to reverse.
Another thing to note is that, when dealing with jazz recordings, they
are generally (but not always) mixed from the drummers perspective -
rock recordings are generally (again, but not always) recorded from
the listener's perspective. So a lefty rock drummer has the advantage
of playing along with righty jazz recordings symmetrically.
So for the comment above, if you're watching from behind the said
drummer, then yeah, you have to reverse it. If you're watching from
the front, you have a great advantage.
-Steve O.
DaManfred Mann
I had never thought of the mirror image thing, that's very interesting,
I don't know why I never thought of that. Since Genesis added Chester
to help Phil with the drumming chores when he became the lead singer,
they've had the unique thing of having one left handed and one right
handed drummer.
The first time I saw it, I was blown away. It was like having a real
live mirror image (except Phil's a little white guy and Chester's a big
black dude). The cool thing is they have identical drum kits, just
mirror images of each other. They do this drum solo together and at one
point they play exactly the same thing and when they go down the toms,
they're each going in opposite directions from the center out. They
even hit the drums and cymbals behind they're heads perfectly in unison,
but inverted from each other.
People think of Phil Collins so much as a singer now, that his drumming
is almost forgotten, especially in his solo work. It says a lot that
whenever Zeppelin wanted to do some grand pseudo reunion (prior to Jason
getting the role) they always called Phil. He played drums for Robert
Plant on his first solo tour and was amazing and he never even sang so
much as a backing vocal. He barely even acknowledged his introduction
when the band was introduced...just there to play drums, mate.
I saw him twice as Eric Clapton's drummer and in those days he was
producing Clapton too, I think he did three albums with him, in addition
to at least two tours. I think that's great when a bona fide rock star
will fill a role as a side musician for a friend, just for the love of
music and a good gig. Like when David Bowie played keyboards for Iggy
Pop on a whole tour...as a favor to Iggy, who was trying to make a comeback.
I guess I've digressed, but one thing reminds me of another and pretty
soon I've gone from left handed drumming > Phil Collins > Genesis > Led
Zeppelin > Robert Plant > Eric Clapton > David Bowie > Iggy Pop.
Thanks for reading my ramblings, I actually had some other thoughts on
the left handed thing, but maybe I'll save it.
I should mention this though. As a guitar player, you're certainly
aware of Jimi Hendrix playing a right handed guitar upside down, right?
But he strung it upside down too, so it was still strung normally when
he flipped it upside down. In the case of watching him, or even of him
watching other players, everybody was playing the "same" with the high E
on the bottom and the major high string bending soloing done
conventionally (if you can say Jimi did anything conventionally) on the
bottom of the neck.
But check out Doyle Bramhall II (his dad used to hang with Stevie Ray
Vaughan and they used to write and play together, so he certainly had a
good start). He's played with Roger Waters' solo band he was playing in
Eric Clapton's band the last couple years. He's got a couple great solo
albums and he was in a band called the Arc Angels with his buddy Charlie
Sexton, who played in Bob Dylan's band for several years.
The Angels only did one album. The band was Bramhall and Sexton on
guitars and Tommy Shannon (bass) and Chris Layton (drums) as the rhythm
section, who might be better known as Stevie Ray Vaughan's band, Double
Trouble. That album has some incredible guitar work (and an obviously
great rhythm section) and some great songs. Dole and Charlie have each
played on the other's solo records and you can always count on those two
to deliver the Texas blues guitar attack.
To give you an idea of Doyle's talent, obviously not everybody gets
invited to play in Clapton's band, but he even played with Clapton when
he recorded the duets album with B.B. King...and they recorded several
of his songs for the album and they're some of the best songs on the record.
But the point I wanted to bring to your attention...sorry it took so
long...is that Doyle is left handed and he plays a right handed guitar
upside down...no big deal, right? Jimi did that 40 years ago. The wild
thing is that he doesn't restring it, so his high E is on top of the
neck, so when he solos on the high, thin strings, he's reaching all the
way across the neck to bend those strings.
A great example with up close video shots is on Eric Clapton's
Crossroads 2007 DVD (the second volume, from Chicago...with Bill Murray
hosting). There's some great stuff on there, like Derek Trucks, who
nails a Derek & the Dominoes song with Clapton standing 10 feet away
watching. A great Jeff Beck performance with Tal on bass (check her
out, before you say, who?). The first Clapton & Winwood reunion where
they played Blind Faith songs, which went so well they did a tour and a
live release.
Of course Clapton jams with his new (at the time) band, which included
both Derek Trucks an Doyle Bramhall II. But if you watch closely on the
Doyle Bramhall solo band set, they have close up shots of him playing
and you can hardly believe your eyes. I showed it to a guitar player
friend who didn't believe me and he was speechless...about time, I can't
stand when people think they've seen it all and refuse to believe
something I have video proof of...yea, he's a bit more humble now.
Anyway, check that out sometime for a great player, who also makes you
shake your head in amazement. I can't help but think of how different
it must have been for him to watch other players, because his style is
so distinctly unique.
Okay, I'm done. I'll talk to ya later,
Dave
phreeeeeeek
Wow, thanks for remembering. That was me. Yeah, I am just okay at
drums. I feel I'm teaching my 11yo okay, but he's lefty, and I'm
righty. At this point, his drums are setup for a righty, but he is
using his left hand on the high hat. As a novice and untrained drummer
(keys are my real deal), I tend to think "well, no big deal, because":
* He'll be comfortable (as SteveO indicated) with the most-common drum
setup
* A lefty using his left hand on the high-hat really isn't any
different than a righty using his right hand on a (typically placed)
ride cymbal (due to my lack of professional percussion training, I
expect I could be very wrong on this point).
So am I helping him or hurting him with the righty setup? It may be
50/50 as SteveO said. But any other useful opinions will be genuinely
appreciated. Thanks.
potatoman
I think you are doing the right thing. I am a guitarist through and
through but I play drums also and enjoy occasionally sitting in with
friends. I'm sure your son will be in that position a good bit in the
future if he continues playing and would not be comfortable with a
normal set if he learned it switched to LH.
It's the same with guitar. If you learn to play a left-handed guitar
then you can rarely just sit in with people at a spontaneous jam
session unless you always carry your guitar around with you.
DaManfred Mann
>>
>> So am I helping him or hurting him with the righty setup? It may be
>> 50/50 as SteveO said. But any other useful opinions will be genuinely
>> appreciated. Thanks.
>
> I think you are doing the right thing. I am a guitarist through and
> through but I play drums also and enjoy occasionally sitting in with
> friends. I'm sure your son will be in that position a good bit in the
> future if he continues playing and would not be comfortable with a
> normal set if he learned it switched to LH.
>
> It's the same with guitar. If you learn to play a left-handed guitar
> then you can rarely just sit in with people at a spontaneous jam
> session unless you always carry your guitar around with you.
Glad you caught this post/thread and checked in, it was a very
interesting question you originally asked and obviously there are
several opinions.
I can definitely see the point about versatility and being able to play
a "regular" kit, but I think there's something to be said for being
natural and comfortable too.
I might suggest letting him experiment with both set ups and see which
he naturally plays better. That's not to say, whatever he excels at
first should the end of the experiment, but it would be informative. A
drum kit can be quite a unique instrument anyway, so I wouldn't worry
about how he sets it up. Technique and theory are good, but so is
natural ability.
I could see reasons to do either. With regard to the left, right thing
in general, I think it has a lot to do with the individual. In some
sports, like baseball, its a statistical advantage to be lefty in a
righty dominated world. On the other hand, try to find lefty scissors
when you're in the first grade.
Steve Morse is an interesting example. He's an incredible guitar player
and he plays right handed. But he's actually left handed. He doesn't
flip it over, or restring it, he just frets with his left (strong hand)
and strums with his right (weaker hand), which is the opposite of most
right handed guitarists, who are fretting with their weaker hand.
Some say that's why he's such a strong player (maybe, maybe not), but I
think its worth noting that he used to be a commercial pilot and when
you fly a plane, not only are you required to be almost equally skilled
with both hands (like a surgeon), but there is a lot of multi-tasking
and skills that are not normally performed under normal circumstances,
so maybe he had an advantage getting started in a style that would be
considered backwards for most people, but might not be as difficult to
do for someone who flies airplanes. I don't know, its just a theory I
heard, but I find it very interesting that he plays with his strong hand
on the neck...it actually makes so much sense, I'm surprised many more
players don't try it.
In the long run, left, right, traditional, match grip, it doesn't
matter, as long as he plays.
Take care,
Dave
potatoman
You just blew my mind about Morse so I had to look it up. He was
actually an airline pilot well after being an established musician. I
don't know if he learned flying first or not. I almost think that is
even more absurd. He was a famous guitarist and quit for a while to be
an airline pilot. That's gotta be pretty damn uncommon.
dabassguy1
You just blew my mind about Morse so I had to look it up. He was
actually an airline pilot well after being an established musician. I
don't know if he learned flying first or not. I almost think that is
even more absurd. He was a famous guitarist and quit for a while to be
an airline pilot. That's gotta be pretty damn uncommon.
Steve Morse is my favorite guitar player. He has been flying all his life,
much as he has been playing guitar his whole life. I had no idea he was
left handed.
But I do remember after the Dreg broke up he went on a stint as a pilot.
That was when he cut his long ass hair.
I remember a show of his I saw back in my early college years where he
started out on gut string classical guitar and played it like Segovia. Then
he switched to a steel string acoustic for a while. He took a break and
came back with a rock band. All were phenomenal performances.
His current bass player Dave LaRue is a masterful musician in his own right.
The guitar/bass interplay is unreal.
And he's from my wife's hometown of Augusta, GA.
For what that's worth.
Jeff
DaManfred Mann
Well I didn't know he left his music career for the airline gig and then
went back to being a rock star, but I knew he was a commercial pilot. I
just thought he probably got good enough and successful enough playing
guitar, that he left the pilot career and went full time on the rock
star thing.
But he is kind of unconventional. The Dixie dregs (later shortened to
the Dregs) are a great example, you never knew what they were going to
play. Wildly talented musicians, but almost with a Zappa-like ability
to play any style at any time...sometimes within the same song. But
Steve can always lay it out on the guitar.
What has always impressed me is after The Dregs and some solo stuff, he
replaced Kerry Livgren in Kansas and although Kerry was a great
guitarist, Steve Morse made them a better band. Then after some more
great solo stuff, he replaced Ritchie Blackmore in Deep Purple and makes
that band way better. No offense to Blackmore fans, but Morse makes
Blackmore look like a beginner...and I always marveled at how smooth
Blackmore played, but you can see how he re energized that band and they
were playing as well as I'd ever heard, maybe better without the drugs
and the "petulant imp" as the other members call Ritchie.
Most older heritage classic bands never get the kind of first class
player like Steve Morse, its really fun to see the energy a great band
gets from adding a new, great player. The Allman Bros. get the same
kind of thing from Warren Haynes, too.
Dave