Jane Eaglen (Was MET Tristan 12/3 1999)
andre35
At last we can agree on an issue. Well said, and I am sure, well meant
Andre
Candide wrote:
> Why does everyone see fit to make snide remarks concerning Ms.Eaglens
> weight? Ms. Eaglen is a woman like many others whom does not fit the picture
> of standard beauty. But she does have the makings of a German dramatic
> soprano. The voice comes with the person not the person with the voice.
>
> Does anyone remember the horrible fate of Maria Callas whom decided she
> wished to fit the standard of feminine beauty of the day and lost great a
> great amount of weight very quickly,which history seems to tell us
> contributed to her long vocal decline. In an era when artists are told to
> sing on the interest not the capital it would be unwise for any performer to
> tamper with their bodies after Ms. Callas's example.
>
> It would be nice if nature created women with supermodel looks with a fach
> soprano,but that is not always the case.
>
> --
> Candide
> Tout est pour le mieux dans le mielleur des mondes possibles
> (Everything is for the best in the best of possible worlds)
> Voltaire (1694-1778)
Candide
HelenMynrd
cases) I am big and it is all my fault.(Nature had nothing to do with it)..but
I can't even imagine performing at the weight of these big women.........I had
enough trouble with two hundred pounds....but I only weighed that when I did
chorus things...I would have died doing a beautiful leading role at that
weight......It is hard for them, I am sure....but really...don't blame it on
nature.....I am tolerant...but there is a limit....don't you think????? Love
and keep singing...HelenM (and especially when it is so devastating on your
health to be that weight....)
Candide
For whatever reason Ms.Eaglen is the weight she is,the reason behind this
(as her true weight which I am sure is not 350lbs as you state) is really
none of anyone's affair. The fact that you would discount her great voice
because it comes with a body which does not suit your picture smacks of rank
discrimination.
I am told by a very close friend of mine whom is older and a great opera
buff that Montserrat Caballe was given the nickname "MonsterFat Caballe".
And upon the conclusion of certain arias which called for the soprano to die
the curtain actually had to be lowered in order for her to be helped to an
upright position with grace,( I believe it was Liu in Turnadot).
The fach German dramatic soprano needs immense power and usually that power
comes in a big package. Debra Voit is not exactly svelte and while Birgit
Nilsson was not hefty she sure qualified as a "full figured gal"
Let me repeat myself it is The Voice that matters and in opera the voice
comes with the person not the person with a voice. Bye the way from my seat
in the orchestra I could spy Ms.Eaglen was wearing a very substantial
diamond engagement ring (what else are opera glasses for?). So obviously
someone out there loves her as she is.
Candide
Tout est pour le mieux dans le mielleur des mondes possibles
(Everything is for the best in the best of possible worlds)
Voltaire (1694-1778)
HelenMynrd <helen...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991205003833...@ng-fv1.aol.com...
Ivan Lalis
voice, but I agree that voice is most important. Ms Eaglen can have 350,400,500
pounds, if she likes it... , but she cannot blame anybody if one is not calling
her Jane Skinny Eaglen.
Ivan
MelvynNY
a "10 foot lucia." > Opera (especially Wagner's) is a Gesamtkunstwerk. There is
MA-J Burdett
thereby creating the illusion of reality. Part of the effect is an
attraction of the attendees to the characters in the roles. Granted, if you
got to know this particular 350 pound individual in personal, you might love
them because of their personality, but few people can be attracted to them
as a viewer of a performance. I agree with you that you have to draw the
line somewhere. If people this large are necessary because no one else has
a voice, then do a concert performance.
Another problem is that new people who attend such a performance are
discouraged. In my early days of being an opera fan I was encouraged that a
good singer like Corelli could have such a dashing and heroic appearance. I
find numerous overweight (by current standards) women who are good singers
attractive, but none who are 300 pounds.
As much as I have enjoyed Pavarotti's beautiful voice, I consider his weight
distracting in some video's I have seen.
I saw a grossly overweight woman sing Carmen and it ruined the opera for me.
HelenMynrd wrote
Wotan99
Everyone seems to accept this unfortunate fact with some degree of
compassion-and as I said I found it sad. This is not discrimination against fat
people, but as has been pointed out-she is a performer, she has a
responsibility. Now there have been other large singers-but fewer than legend
would have us believe. Flagstad, Nilson were not small women, but not obese
either. I've never accepted the idea that fat=volume,
even when it comes to Callas. Many singers have characteristics-usually facial,
(like Sutherland) but others (Vickers' heroic chest) that set them apart
physically. I remember being in Tucker's dressing room after an astounding
performance, and found myself mesmerized by the size of his head. But one of
the biggest voices I ever heard came from Bob Merrill-a most normal looking guy
(and leaving aside the cruel remark that he had nothing in his head
but resonating space) and Corelli, a fit, athletic guy, was also quite normal
in appearance-with not a particularly large head. So the idea that all of
Eaglen's weight is necessary for her voice is nonsense. Aside from that, as was
mentioned in a review over a year ago-there is the impression that this bulk is
hurting her singing-not to mention her health.
And yet there are large singers who somehow overcome it by the quality of their
singing, or some inner radiance that makes us forget it.(Norman) And, yes,
there is a double standard with men-it is tolerated in a certain way. But there
is also the fact that many big, even fat men can be quite nimble-Pav, e.g. even
when fat (not fattest) in the old days had a bounce to his step. If Eaglen had
a voice of a transcending nature we would be more able to
overlook her appearance, and if she sang in a way that had emotion and
characterization-that moved us, we would be more forgiving. And in addition
there is the obvious inability of anything resembling dramatic verisimilitude
by the fact of her sheer appearance, and its inhibiting effect on acting, even
if she had the inner flame to attempt it. (Shouldn't some degree of fantasy be
legitimate, not to mention possible when looking at the most passionate
couple in opera-come on no one believed that of those two-unless you had your
eyes closed, or were sitting at a score desk) Take her long walk after
squeezing out of the trapdoor to Tristan's bed in Act 3-she lumbered like some
great beast with her body heaving from side to side. Were there snorts? Am I
cruel?-just the facts. And that photo in the NYT (the other one was OK) I put
some paper around it to mask what it was and showed it to some
people-they weren't sure of the gender, and someone thought it might have to do
with professional wrestling. She must have been heartbroken over it.
I remember Rita Hunter as Brunnhilde-a fine voice and performer-but I did close
my eyes, for she looked like a great ball of lard-but Eaglen is on another
scale-in fact, her own. I think she might sing better if she lost some weight,
but hasn't she a responsibility because she is a performer, an actress, to do
something. This is particularly true today when our expectations for appearance
and acting are so much higher, and there is the fact of TV
and videos. (Of course in a strange way tight shots on TV-for Norman e.g. were
to her benefit-but she had a great face, and emoted)
Maybe concerts would be best for Eaglen.
Wotan
Ian Graham
<Some...@anywhere.com> writes
>The fach German dramatic soprano needs immense power and usually that power
>comes in a big package. Debra Voit is not exactly svelte and while Birgit
>Nilsson was not hefty she sure qualified as a "full figured gal"
Dame Joan Sutherland used to say (and I am sure still does): 'If you
want to send up a big rocket, you need to use a big rocket-launcher!'
With very few exceptions the female singers with the huge voices have
been ladies of considerably more than average size. The most ample
voice I have ever heard in the opera house belonged to the wonderful
Rita Hunter...
IG
--
Ian Graham
Candide
have a weight problem, but how do you remedy it should one be necessary? I
am sure the first one of her many critics of her weight whom could produce a
method that would reduce her size whilst providing that her voice would
either stay the same or improve could earn themselves a tidy fee. But alas
no one can, can they?
Yes Ms. Eaglen is a performer with responsibilities, one of them is to keep
the voice in the best condition possible. And while her weight may or may
not be the best thing for the voice what are the alternatives? The Voice is
unique among all musical instruments. One cannot touch it,see it or even
pack it away for safe keeping whilst one undergoes surgery. The Voice is an
elusive temperamental thing,it comes and goes at will and can only be
mastered after years of training,even then one only learns how to understand
it and coax it to doing your bidding.
I hate to keep harping back to Ms. Callas but her example is one not soon to
be forgotten, a fate hanging over many a soprano fach whom would like to
reshape their bodies: Do so at The Voice's Peril.
--
Candide
Tout est pour le mieux dans le mielleur des mondes possibles
(Everything is for the best in the best of possible worlds)
Voltaire (1694-1778)
Wotan99 <wot...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991205125453...@ng-bk1.aol.com...
Ken B Lane
>weight? Ms. Eaglen is a woman like many others whom does not fit the picture
>of standard beauty. But she does have the makings of a German dramatic
When it does happen that a new singer "arrives" on the scene like Sue Patchel
replacing Jane Eaglen, all matters of avoirdupois become n/a, not applicable.
Gigli, Martinelli, Caruso and even Melchior were lean-figured at their opera
debut performances. Often nerves are given as the excuse for artists eating
ravenously to fend off the jitters.
A good technique of voice and acting ability and being thoroughly prepared and
WORKING OUT in a gym or running can keep the figure "romantically-convincing."
Kenneth Lane, Wagnerian Romantischer Heldentenor
Website: www.WagnerOpera.com
E-Mail: KenB...@aol.com
Lake Hiawatha, New Jersey 07034-0131, USA
"The highest reward for a Man's toil is not what he gets for it, but what he
becomes by it." John Ruskin
HelenMynrd
do.....but believe me, attending an opera where the leading (supposedly
beautiful damsel in distress is well over three hundred pounds) is rather
strange......And do not presume to tell me that she does not weigh that much,
as I have a student who weighs three hundred and is no where near as large as
these ladies.....I don't think you can blame NATURE for any of these
overeater's discretions....And I know from experience what happens when one is
way overweight as I am in a family of very large people with all kinds of
physical problems brought on by overweight..I am not discounting her voice, by
any means, but I simply responded to your statement that we blame Nature for
the problem. I am sure that Ms Eaglen could buy a diamond ring for herself or
it could be an engagement ring....I read recently that Rosie Clooney got
married a couple of years ago and she now weighs 400 lbs. So.......some men
love fat women....Anyway..love and keep singing...HelenM
Candide wrote:
>Madame you missed my point completly:
>
>For whatever reason Ms.Eaglen is the weight she is,the reason behind this
>(as her true weight which I am sure is not 350lbs as you state) is really
>none of anyone's affair. The fact that you would discount her great voice
>because it comes with a body which does not suit your picture smacks of rank
>discrimination.
>
>I am told by a very close friend of mine whom is older and a great opera
>buff that Montserrat Caballe was given the nickname "MonsterFat Caballe".
>And upon the conclusion of certain arias which called for the soprano to die
>the curtain actually had to be lowered in order for her to be helped to an
>upright position with grace,( I believe it was Liu in Turnadot).
>
>The fach German dramatic soprano needs immense power and usually that power
>comes in a big package. Debra Voit is not exactly svelte and while Birgit
>Nilsson was not hefty she sure qualified as a "full figured gal"
>
>Let me repeat myself it is The Voice that matters and in opera the voice
>comes with the person not the person with a voice. Bye the way from my seat
>in the orchestra I could spy Ms.Eaglen was wearing a very substantial
>diamond engagement ring (what else are opera glasses for?). So obviously
>someone out there loves her as she is.
>
>Candide
>Tout est pour le mieux dans le mielleur des mondes possibles
>(Everything is for the best in the best of possible worlds)
>Voltaire (1694-1778)
>HelenMynrd <helen...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:19991205003833...@ng-fv1.aol.com...
>> You think NATURE created a woman of nearly 350 pounds?????????(or more in
>some
>> cases) I am big and it is all my fault.(Nature had nothing to do with
>it)..but
>> I can't even imagine performing at the weight of these big women.........I
>had
>> enough trouble with two hundred pounds....but I only weighed that when I
>did
>> chorus things...I would have died doing a beautiful leading role at that
>> weight......It is hard for them, I am sure....but really...don't blame it
>on
>> nature.....I am tolerant...but there is a limit....don't you think?????
>Love
>> and keep singing...HelenM (and especially when it is so devastating on
>your
>> health to be that weight....)
>>
>> Candide wrote:
>> >> It would be nice if nature created women with supermodel looks with a
>fach
>> >> soprano,but that is not always the case.
>> >>
james_...@smtplink.mssm.edu
>
> > Why does everyone see fit to make snide remarks concerning
Ms.Eaglens
> > weight? Ms. Eaglen is a woman like many others whom does not fit the
picture
> > of standard beauty. But she does have the makings of a German
dramatic
voice.
The flawed assumptions here are that the voice is the only important
element in an operatic performance, and that Ms. Eaglen has no control
whatsoever over her weight. The first is simply not true, and we do not
know how accurate the second might be.
> > Does anyone remember the horrible fate of Maria Callas whom decided
she
> > wished to fit the standard of feminine beauty of the day and lost
great a
> > great amount of weight very quickly,which history seems to tell us
> > contributed to her long vocal decline. In an era when artists are
told to
> > sing on the interest not the capital it would be unwise for any
performer to
> > tamper with their bodies after Ms. Callas's example.
Eileen Farrell, Joan Sutherland and Marilyn Horne, three models of vocal
longevity, successfully controlled their weight throughout their stage
careers. None of them were ever slim, but they managed to present
themselves with dignity. Sutherland considered herself overweight when
she exceeded about 200 lbs., a far cry from Ms. Eaglen's 300 lbs. or
more. (In an interview in OPERA NEWS Dame Joan spoke with some
impatience of current sopranos who do not, in her opinion, take the
responsibility of caring for their appearance.)
> > It would be nice if nature created women with supermodel looks with
a fach
> > soprano,but that is not always the case.
There is a wide range of physical appearance between "supermodel" looks
and a woman who weighs more than twice the average. No one expects Ms.
Eaglen or her colleagues to look like Kate Moss. But surely there is
some happy medium.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Candide
Ms.Eaglens weight but present no reasonable way for her to reduce it whilst
preserving her voice. And with all due respect until you have seen her up
close sans costume in the manner to which you deal with your students how
can you accurately gauge her weight?
You will go on about finding "a beautiful damsel in distress who is well
over three hundred pounds" strange, but opera has always been about the
sound,the voice not the appearance. Should we banish Ms.Eaglen from the
stage until she has attained a more svelte appearance? Supposed she did
somehow reduce herself to fit your picture but the voice now has changed,do
we now say to her, well now you LOOK real nice but your voice is wrong,sorry
we cant' use you?
No one is "blaming" nature for her weight, rather understanding that her
voice comes with her body as is.While you,others and perhaps even Ms.Eaglen
herself would like to change the body the question is how to do it whist
keeping the voice. It is a gamble not many professional singers would risk
and I do not blame them.
--
Candide
Tout est pour le mieux dans le mielleur des mondes possibles
(Everything is for the best in the best of possible worlds)
Voltaire (1694-1778)
HelenMynrd <helen...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991205185856...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
> >> >> It would be nice if nature created women with supermodel looks with
a
> >fach
> >> >> soprano,but that is not always the case.
> >> >>
HelenMynrd
145 and sang better than ever.and kept it there to do the neat things I did
with hard work...but worth it......so don't tell me that losing weight can hurt
the voice.....Maria's voice would have done the same thing, weight loss or
no... I think you protest too much........Love and keep singing..HelenM
Tyrrath
>enough trouble with two hundred pounds....but I only weighed that when I did
>chorus things...I would have died doing a beautiful leading role at that
>weight......
You must be short. I look great at that weight!:}:P
Tyrrath
>as
>a "10 foot lucia." >
Hm. Well, at least they don't knock the fact that she declared her 'singing
weight' to be 260 lbs!
Tyrrath
>longevity, successfully controlled their weight throughout their stage
>careers. None of them were ever slim, but they managed to present
>themselves with dignity. Sutherland considered herself overweight when
>she exceeded about 200 lbs., a far cry from Ms. Eaglen's 300 lbs. or
>more. (In an interview in OPERA NEWS Dame Joan spoke with some
>impatience of current sopranos who do not, in her opinion, take the
>responsibility of caring for their appearance.)
Whether or not Dame Joan has become a revisionist, I have first-hand accounts
of her complaining of weakness because of having dropped below her 'singing
weight' of 260 lbs. Perhaps /she/ has decided to draw the line at 300 lbs. Or
400 lbs.
Which brings us to another issue: HOW thin does a singer have to be before the
bigots accept him/ her as a romantic lead?
Tyrrath
>married a couple of years ago and she now weighs 400 lbs. So.......some men
>love fat women...
So why, then, is a lady of that weight unsuitable for a romantic lead?
Tyrrath
>145 and sang better than ever.and kept it there to do the neat things I did
>with hard work.
Then you are in the minority. When I lose weight I have to be VERY careful to
do /excessive/ numbers of situps and leg raises and so forth or I begin to find
it very difficult to support loud notes in the passagio, particularly. My low
notes get weak. My top loses ring. in other words, my abs are loose as the
padding under them has disappeared.
Many other cases (Callas and Norman being notable examples, but there have been
less famous ones on this very list) exist of singers either developing vocal
problems or having to switch to a lighter fach after losing weight.
Perhaps you lost all the weight by doing the 'Sweatin to the Oldies' workout.
If that is the case, I salute you. But madam, please don't assume that it's
easy, or even worth the effort to someone who is making as much money as Jane
Eaglen currently is in her current form.
Tyrrath
Shame on you!
Ancona21
Fanciulla, perhaps . . .
Ancona21
Nemo me impune lacessit
james_...@smtplink.mssm.edu
> Helloooo!! Is anyone even listening??? Ok yes Ms. Eaglen may or may not
> have a weight problem, but how do you remedy it should one be necessary?
Hello yourself. I have already offered three examples of singers who
successfully kept their appearance under control for the course of long
careers. Are *you* even listening?
> I hate to keep harping back to Ms. Callas
And yet you do, perhaps because it is the only excuse you can think of.
jj
james_...@smtplink.mssm.edu
> Which brings us to another issue: HOW thin does a singer have to be before the
> bigots accept him/ her as a romantic lead?
Which brings us to yet another issue: HOW defensive about his obesity
does a singer have to be before he begins to call the audience "bigots?"
johno...@my-deja.com
"Candide" <Some...@anywhere.com> wrote:
> Why does everyone see fit to make snide remarks concerning Ms.Eaglens
> weight? Ms. Eaglen is a woman like many others whom does not fit the
picture
> of standard beauty. But she does have the makings of a German
dramatic
voice.
>
All fat jokes aside, Eaglen actually made a pretty good Butterfly in
Brisbane a number of years ago. Sure, she didn't look like any
butterfly I've ever seen, but she sang well and acted the role with no
small commitment. Comparing her with the tiny doll of a Chinese
soprano who sang Butterfly here this year, I think I'd favour Eaglen.
J
Charles Bollman
"Candide" wrote
> Helloooo!! Is anyone even listening??? Ok yes Ms. Eaglen may or may not
> have a weight problem, but how do you remedy it should one be necessary?
> am sure the first one of her many critics of her weight whom could produce
a
> method that would reduce her size whilst providing that her voice would
> either stay the same or improve could earn themselves a tidy fee. But
alas
> no one can, can they?
>
> Yes Ms. Eaglen is a performer with responsibilities, one of them is to
keep
> the voice in the best condition possible. And while her weight may or may
> not be the best thing for the voice what are the alternatives? The Voice
is
> unique among all musical instruments. One cannot touch it,see it or even
> pack it away for safe keeping whilst one undergoes surgery. The Voice is
an
> elusive temperamental thing,it comes and goes at will and can only be
> mastered after years of training,even then one only learns how to
understand
> it and coax it to doing your bidding.
>
> I hate to keep harping back to Ms. Callas but her example is one not soon
to
> be forgotten, a fate hanging over many a soprano fach whom would like to
> reshape their bodies: Do so at The Voice's Peril.>
What changes (and why) do you imagine would happen to a voice resulting from
weight loss?
Charles Bollman
"Tyrrath" wrote
> Then you are in the minority. When I lose weight I have to be VERY careful
to
> do /excessive/ numbers of situps and leg raises and so forth or I begin to
find
> it very difficult to support loud notes in the passagio, particularly. My
low
> notes get weak. My top loses ring. in other words, my abs are loose as the
> padding under them has disappeared.>
If that is an accurate report then it is obvious that you have a faulty
vocal technique, sir.
Charles Bollman
"Tyrrath" <tyr...@aol.com> wrote
> Whether or not Dame Joan has become a revisionist, I have first-hand
accounts
> of her complaining of weakness because of having dropped below her
'singing
> weight' of 260 lbs.>
Whether she said it or not is irrelevant. Assuming a properly nourishing
diet one will not be weaker for having dropped 50<>pounds of fat. The
feeling will be one of greater strength and energy, not less.
MA-J Burdett
assertion that I am a bigot. Dead wrong! How you could come to that
conclusin from my post I do not understand.
Ivan Lalis
that nobody is going to deny that the probability of this happening to obese
people is higher than to slender ones. And nobody will persuade me that she
looks the way she looks now because she is carefull of her voice.
Ivan
andre35
I don't know Bollman, about the weight.
However, I do have a business proposition. You and Ken Lana open ....
Ken & Boll's Kollege of Musical Knowledge. You can be Ish Kabbible.
A show biz wiz !!
Andre
dtritter
andre35 wrote:
>
> Bollman,
> I don't know Bollman, about the weight.
> However, I do have a business proposition. You and Ken Lana open ....
> Ken & Boll's Kollege of Musical Knowledge. You can be Ish Kabbible.
> A show biz wiz !!
> Andre
whaddya mean "can be?" i thought he already was. bollman, of course, had
his studies with kay kayser and harry babbitt, though loath to give them
credit for his advanced stature in Vocal Wisdom. ah, those were the
days!
dft
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dtritter
AND THAT'S THAT!!!
Charles Bollman
An anonymous nobody wrote:
> Charles Bollman wrote:
> > If that is an accurate report then it is obvious that you have a faulty
> > vocal technique, sir.
> AND THAT'S THAT!!!<
Fuckin' A, Tritt Man! Hey Good Buddy, you almost knocked me over with all
those capital letters. But Hey! Don't get me wrong. I like it. You should
come out of your hole, oops, I mean 'shell' a little more often. BTW, I
noticed that you have been warming up to the Dade County DooDoo Head. I want
to encourage you to pursue that relationship. After all, he's a lonely
guy--you're a lonely guy. Could be a match ordained by the Almighty. Does
the Little Woman allow you to date? You could pop down to South Beach when
the icy blast of February starts to blow and cuddle up with that big slug,
oops, I mean 'lug'. You could name-drop to your heart's content. Who knows
what might develop? Between your arrogance and his ignorance, and of course
YOUR ignorance and HIS arrogance you might develop a synergy that would set
the very ether to humming. I say GO FOR IT, old chum. You have my blessing.
And do give my best regards to SWMBO. BTW, may I assume that you have been
clearing my pedagogy posts with the Little Woman ?
You Pal,
CTB
dtritter
Charles Bollman wrote:
>
> An anonymous nobody wrote:
> > Charles Bollman wrote:> > > If that is an accurate report then it is obvious that you have a faulty> > > vocal technique, sir.
>
> > AND THAT'S THAT!!!<
Bollman is the final authority [as detailed below] on all things vocal
[with the possible exception of cheryl studer, whose champion is heard
to excess here and elsewhere...surprising that bollman has not weighed
in...[sic!]...on this vital topic too, perhaps with a gratuitous voice
lesson and anatomy lecture]
> Fuckin' A, Tritt Man! Hey Good Buddy, you almost knocked me over with all
> those capital letters. But Hey! Don't get me wrong. I like it. You should
what elegant diction is at this truckdriver's disposal!
> come out of your hole, oops, I mean 'shell' a little more often. BTW, I
> noticed that you have been warming up to the Dade County DooDoo Head.
I'm not certain what this means, since I was in that county once 22
years ago, loathed it and never have returned. but bollman must fasten
on factoids to support his slender mental resources.
> I want> to encourage you to pursue that relationship. After all, he's a lonely> guy--you're a lonely guy. Could be a match ordained by the Almighty. Does> the Little Woman allow you to date? You could pop down to South Beach when> the icy blast of February starts to blow and cuddle up with that big slug,> oops, I mean 'lug'. You could name-drop to your heart's content. Who knows> what might develop?
i suppose this bollman's putrid take on a same sex relationship. if he
knew me, he'd probably have to retreat to the men's room stall from
which recently emerged. sorry, bollman, no dice here. if that's what you
prefer, there are those available here on the ng, though my take on
their tastes is not in the neighborhood of smartass poltroons such as
you.
> Between your arrogance and his ignorance, and of course> YOUR ignorance and HIS arrogance you might develop a synergy that would set> the very ether to humming. I say GO FOR IT, old chum. You have my blessing.
i bow to your expertise in the field of arrogance and to your
unquestioned supremacy in ignorance.
> And do give my best regards to SWMBO.
am i supposed to know what this code means? i don't, and have no
particular desire to have you enlighten me.
>BTW, may I assume that you have been> clearing my pedagogy posts with the Little Woman ?
bollman, it seems that you are the Little Woman, and i'm surprised you
don't use that as your posting nom de crotte. is it possible that your
posts fall into the realm of pedagogy? they are so full of ignorant
claptrap and jargon that the notion of their constituting pedagogy only
tickles one's risibilities. oh, and just to enlighten me and other
readers here, please tell us about a) your eminent career as a
performing singer, and b) your equally famed status as a teacher of
voice, including all your well-known students.
in short, old chum [how nauseating that neologism is, but it's the best
you seem able to do], is it possible that you are merely what you appear
to be? a blowhard posing as a "pedagogue?" in the days of moveable type,
your posts would have qualified for that prized category, the product of
a spilled typebox, random and mindless.
andre35
A.
andre35 wrote:
Bollman, Bollman, Bollman,
Whatever will become of you? What has become of you? Here we were making business plans, and then you erupt at another poster in a less than respectful way.
I'm not sure you are ready to be our Ish Kabbible, after all , school is a serious place, as your pedagogic horrors always attempt to prove. Have you had a recent "setback?" Please do follow the instructions of Nurse Blucher, [was that a horse neighing?] she will straighten you out, with an almost electric effect.
All I can ask of you is please stay out of Broward County on your search for "used" body parts. We live nicely, and grave robbery hasn't been on the criminal docket here for, oh, about three or four years now. As a matter of fact coinciding with your last visit. Hmmm............
Well, GrandInquisitorFarragoJohnBeresfordTiptonLittleMary BollmanUkiah@Fiddlesticks, stick to your crusade. Keep trying to bore to death anyone silly enough to mention "vocal technique." A fine way of finding subjects for your anatomical "research."
I understand your neighbors are starting to wonder about, "that odor." Even in winter one mustn't fall in love, as it were, with one's precious collection of specimins. Give it up, its for the best.
You have guessed by now that I'm not "you pal," as you have addressed others....Recently.
On the other hand, [now there's a tasty tidbit, nice snack for you] you remain "uno pendejo". I do so love the colorful language of other cultures, don't you, or have you reached the tertiary stage?. Those body parts can be dangerous, wear your glovies now.
If you stay well, I might buy you a nice doctor kit for the holidays.
Pack up all your cares and woe...Bye Bye Bollman. You do seem to be getting better, attempts at sarcastic bonhommie, not like you at all. I know a fellow in Houston you would get along with.....famously.
"God will forgive me. C'est son metier." -HH-
Andre EdouardCharles Bollman wrote:
An anonymous nobody wrote:
> Charles Bollman wrote:
> > If that is an accurate report then it is obvious that you have a faulty
> > vocal technique, sir.
> AND THAT'S THAT!!!<
Fuckin' A, Tritt Man! Hey Good Buddy, you almost knocked me over with all
those capital letters. But Hey! Don't get me wrong. I like it. You should
come out of your hole, oops, I mean 'shell' a little more often. BTW, I
noticed that you have been warming up to the Dade County DooDoo Head. I want
to encourage you to pursue that relationship. After all, he's a lonely
guy--you're a lonely guy. Could be a match ordained by the Almighty. Does
the Little Woman allow you to date? You could pop down to South Beach when
the icy blast of February starts to blow and cuddle up with that big slug,
oops, I mean 'lug'. You could name-drop to your heart's content. Who knows
what might develop? Between your arrogance and his ignorance, and of course
YOUR ignorance and HIS arrogance you might develop a synergy that would set
the very ether to humming. I say GO FOR IT, old chum. You have my blessing.
And do give my best regards to SWMBO. BTW, may I assume that you have been
clearing my pedagogy posts with the Little Woman ?
You Pal,
CTB
Ian Graham
<tyr...@aol.com> writes
>>Eileen Farrell, Joan Sutherland and Marilyn Horne, three models of vocal
>>longevity, successfully controlled their weight throughout their stage
>>careers. None of them were ever slim, but they managed to present
>>themselves with dignity. Sutherland considered herself overweight when
>>she exceeded about 200 lbs., a far cry from Ms. Eaglen's 300 lbs. or
>>more. (In an interview in OPERA NEWS Dame Joan spoke with some
>>impatience of current sopranos who do not, in her opinion, take the
>>responsibility of caring for their appearance.)
>
>of her complaining of weakness because of having dropped below her 'singing
>400 lbs.
I would be interested in knowing where the figure of 260lbs comes from.
I saw Sutherland many times and she did not look to me like a woman of
18 stones plus. 13-14 stones I could believe (200lbs) but 18?
IG
--
Ian Graham
CassidyS
plus. 13-14 stones I could believe (200lbs) but 18? >>
I've been wondering that, too, Mr. Graham. I remember reading in an article
some years ago that she did not like to weigh more than 200#, and for the usual
reasons. IIRC, the article gave her "fighting weight" as *160,* which is
still substantial for her frame (though in no way obese), and her peak as 212.
My own impression of her -- from pictures and TV only, as I never saw her in
live performance -- is that she is a *big* woman but not a *fat* one.
BTW, is a stone equal to fourteen pounds?
Thanks,
Cassidy
Luca Logi
> Why does everyone see fit to make snide remarks concerning Ms.Eaglens
> weight? Ms. Eaglen is a woman like many others whom does not fit the picture
> of standard beauty. But she does have the makings of a German dramatic
> soprano. The voice comes with the person not the person with the voice.
I remember that some years ago I met a fellow of mine - at the time he
was working as a stage and organization manager for an opera house. He
was swearing like a mad, with some of the most elaborate curses I ever
heard in my life (and I do not even try to translate).
Me: - What's happening, Raf? Why are you so angry?
Him:- You wouldn't believe! Do you know Mrs. Eaglen?
Me: - Yes, what's the matter?
Him:- She is complaining that her new Turandot costume makes her
look too fat!
--------------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: ll...@dada.it
Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
(musicologia pratica)
Charles Bollman
<johno...@my-deja.com> wrote
> All fat jokes aside, Eaglen actually made a pretty good Butterfly in
> Brisbane a number of years ago. Sure, she didn't look like any
Sort of a 'fatfalla' then, would you say?
Charles Bollman
An anonymous nobody dashed off yet more deathless prose which needn't be
repeated:
hey big fella! you're going all coy on me re the dcddh here. but listen,
you're secret is safe w/yrs truly, old pal of mine. vis a vis swmbo, surely
you are familiar w/rumpole of the b. btw i ran into jimmy levine and joey
volpe at lutece last week and mentioned how pissed-off you get when they
import all those brits to direct our operas. trittster, i wish you had been
there. their faces went pale, man!!! it was sorta like you could just see
them thinking, "oh shit! we screwed the pooch!" then they kinda started
swearing at each other and jabbing their fingers at each other. see, jimmy
was claiming that joey was supposed to have cleared that new director with
you, and joey was claiming vice v. i don't know how it turned out because i
had to move along to my table. i didn't want to keep zubie and yo yo
waiting.
ciao, ol' chum!
ctb
andre35
Is a childish play on words the best you can do? We expect so many
more boring paragraphs from you, that I for one, am saddened and
disappointed to see the state to which your once rapier quick wit has
fallezzzzzzzzzz.................
A.
Tyrrath
Currently there are a number of obese people singing opera. Of all of these,
only Pavarotti has had a heart attack. Perhaps the women in question will have
troubles once they reach menopause, but for now they don't seem any more prone
to heart attacks than the general populace.
And as for your second point, no one (at least not I) is saying that she looks
the way she looks because she thinks it will make her sing /better/. If I
recall correctly, Jane Eaglen gained the weight she did because of a glandular
disorder (I forget where I read this, so don't quote me). But regardless, she
didn't /choose/ to be this size, and if there were a way she could drop all
that weight and KEEP IT OFF without SACRIFICING HER HEALTH, don't you think she
would have done so, given society's condemnation?
Tyrrath
>assertion that I am a bigot. Dead wrong! How you could come to that
>conclusin from my post I do not understand.
You have demonstrated a rather extreme and unquestioning intolerance of large
performers, as well as assumptions about others' opinions regarding the same
that are far from universal. I call that bigotry.
Tyrrath
>diet one will not be weaker for having dropped 50<>pounds of fat. The
>feeling will be one of greater strength and energy, not less.
>
>
>
people eat significantly more than the average person. Admittedly, I am about
50 lbs overweight, not 200. But speaking from my own experience, I find I
cannot lose weight without deprivation or without being on a specialized plan
that may or may not be healthy
.
An obese person with a family history of overweight CANNOT lose weight unless
he/she cuts back his/her calories to a level below what he/she has been
consuming. I, for one, cannot lose weight eating a conventional diet even on a
1200-calorie-per-day regimen. I joined Weight Watchers, which has a
1600-calorie regimen, and GAINED five lbs in the first two weeks, following the
plan to the letter. I walk three miles three times a week and try to walk
regularly on the days I don't take the long walk. And when I've done
conventional diets, I have generally gotten sick within the first week and have
been thoroughly exhausted until I began eating normally again.
The only diet that has worked for me is the high-protein plan - which must be
maintained for life if one is to maintain the weight loss. Many would argue
that it isn't a healthy plan, but it is the /only/ one on which I feel any
'greater strength and energy'.
Not all bodies are meant to be slender, and not all people feel so much better
at a smaller weight.
Tyrrath
>does a singer have to be before he begins to call the audience "bigots?"
I don't call 'the audience' bigots, James. I call certain posters who express
an inability to enjoy a performance by a heavy artist 'bigots.'
This 'bigot' word seems to have struck as raw a nerve with some on this list as
their comments struck with me. Perhaps the last 'safe' prejudice is being
attacked and some are feeling a bit....defensive?
Tyrrath
>I would be interested in knowing where the figure of 260lbs comes from.
>I saw Sutherland many times and she did not look to me like a woman of
>18 stones plus. 13-14 stones I could believe (200lbs) but 18?
>
>
My teacher worked with Sutherland in the 70s, and this was the figure he quoted
her as giving.
Tyrrath
>vocal technique, sir.
>
>
And how do you justify this assertion, sir?
Richard C. Wall
about obesity, nothing about addiction to food and nothing
about Miss Eaglen.
Tyrrath wrote:
[snip]
Wotan99
I made my statement re this issue, and made it clear that it was not an attack
on overweight people. But yes, I do have lots of problems with a singer doing
Isolde who looks the way she does-the word elephantine was used-alas it is
true. Of course it's a problem, and in addition as i also said her, her voice
and singing does not begin to give her a pass on this issue.
From your comments here about your own weight problems, may I suggest that you
might consider disqualifying yourself from this issue.
Wotan
Tyrrath
>As a 400-lb man, I can tell you that you obviously know nothing
>about obesity, nothing about addiction to food and nothing
>about Miss Eaglen.
>
>
Do /you/ think you know more about Ms. Eaglen than I do, Mr. Wall?
Erik88NYC
weight?<<
You're clearly implying that this is for non-worthy reasons. The reality is
simpler: Opera is not only an aural experience, it's a dramatic experience.
Jane Eaglen's appearance onstage is seriously distracting. Her size interferes
with her acting. She doesn't move quickly. She makes compromises. She stands
and sings, rather than moves and acts.
I don't mean to be unkind to her, and the voice is superb. I'm just reacting
to your (apparent) implication that noticing, reacting, or commenting on
someone's physical appearance onstage is not valid, or unworthy.
Tyrrath
>you
>might consider disqualifying yourself from this issue.
>
>
I have as much right to comment on /any/ issue as anyone on this list. This is
rather like expecting Studiva to refrain from commenting in any thread
concering Cheryl Studer because it concerns her directly. Rubbish!
Furthermore, I actually /haven't/ experienced discrimination based on /my/ size
in opera - quite the opposite. I am in a dramatic fach and some have embraced
me /because/ I'm not /as/ big as many who sing this rep. While I'm sure most
would call me (using a favorite word of Mr. Jorden's) 'Junoesque,' I'm not far,
relatively speaking, from that level where no one particularly notices my
physical dimensions. I'm also actively /trying/ to lose weight, and actually
succeeding. I /should/ be cheering some of the very posters I've been
criticizing!
My passion on this issue has more to do with my dismay at some of the singers
I've heard singing repertoire they simply couldn't sing, apparently cast in the
roles because they had a certain look. I have written a post that more clearly
defines my feelings on this issue, if anyone is interested (not that I flatter
myself that anyone is). It's called 'Suspension of Disbelief.'
Tyrrath
Erik88NYC
comes with the person not the person with a voice<<
I don't agree. If it were only The Voice that matters I'd stay home and listen
to a recording. I attend live performances precisely because it is *not* only
The Voice (or the sound) that matters; it's the whole experience, significantly
including the part of the experience that I perceive with my eyes, not my ears.
Erik88NYC
it could be an engagement ring..<<
In today's Times (12/6) there was an article about Heppner and Eaglen in which
she spoke of being engaged to be married in March.
Erik88NYC
How does it become an issue of "bigotry"?? Is it "bigotry" if I don't like
brussel sprouts and prefer string beans instead? Is it "bigotry" if my
romantic feelings are triggered more by blondes than brunettes? Is it
"bigotry" if I find a slender person more attractive as a romantic lead than a
heavy person?
Erik88NYC
performers, as well as assumptions about others' opinions regarding the same
that are far from universal. I call that bigotry.
<<
Why bigotry? Some might call that just a matter of taste. Or artistic
preference.
Tyrrath
>brussel sprouts and prefer string beans instead? Is it "bigotry" if my
>romantic feelings are triggered more by blondes than brunettes? Is it
>"bigotry" if I find a slender person more attractive as a romantic lead than
>a
>heavy person?
It's a matter of degree. To say one is more attracted to a conventionally
beautiful person as a character is a preference. To say that seeing a heavy
person in a particular role 'ruined the experience' for one is intolerance.
Tyrrath
>simpler: Opera is not only an aural experience, it's a dramatic experience.
>Jane Eaglen's appearance onstage is seriously distracting. Her size
>interferes
>with her acting. She doesn't move quickly. She makes compromises. She
>stands
>and sings, rather than moves and acts.
>
>I don't mean to be unkind to her, and the voice is superb. I'm just reacting
>to your (apparent) implication that noticing, reacting, or commenting on
>someone's physical appearance onstage is not valid, or unworthy.
But you are criticizing Eaglen as a performer - her movement, her
characterization, etc. And I don't necessarily think that it's unfair to
speculate that her weight, or her high school football injury, or the tightness
of her shoes is responsible for this problem. But this is different from
condemning her simply because one thinks she doesn't look good enough to be on
the stage.
Ian Graham
<cass...@aol.com> writes
><< I would be interested in knowing where the figure of 260lbs comes from. I
>plus. 13-14 stones I could believe (200lbs) but 18? >>
>
>some years ago that she did not like to weigh more than 200#, and for the usual
>reasons. IIRC, the article gave her "fighting weight" as *160,* which is
>still substantial for her frame (though in no way obese), and her peak as 212.
> My own impression of her -- from pictures and TV only, as I never saw her in
>live performance -- is that she is a *big* woman but not a *fat* one.
>
>BTW, is a stone equal to fourteen pounds?
--
Ian Graham
james_...@smtplink.mssm.edu
> My teacher worked with Sutherland in the 70s, and this was the figure he quoted
> her as giving.
Ah, hearsay of hearsay then. Impressive medical evidence you've got
there.
jj
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Wotan99
>is
>rather like expecting Studiva to refrain from commenting in any thread
>concering Cheryl Studer because it concerns her directly. Rubbish!
Of course, you have a right, but as with the Studer fanatic, readers tend to
question the usefulness of his perspective.
>My passion on this issue has more to do with my dismay at some of the singers
>I've heard singing repertoire they simply couldn't sing, apparently cast in
>the
>roles because they had a certain look. I have written a post that more
>clearly
>defines my feelings on this issue, if anyone is interested (not that I
>flatter
>myself that anyone is). It's called 'Suspension of Disbelief.'
>
>Tyrrath
NOw that's another issue entirely. Your point, I think, would be clearer if you
didn't mix the two. Let's try an obvious example. We wouldn't want a Salome who
simply looked the part, and had an inadequate voice. But we all know that to
sing this role a 16 year old might have the body but not the voice-so we can
deal with a good size mature woman who can imply the character, and has the
voice. (on rare occasions a beautiful woman with the appropriate voice has done
it, much to our delight) Now, honestly would Eaglen be able to attempt the
role??-only as a grotesquerie. But she might do it well in a concert, or on a
recording.
Why is this so hard to grasp?
W
andre35
unfurl the banner of the anti-lookism crusade. To the barricades, again, and again,
and again..............
Is there an elevator to Barricades...2nd floor...gernades, flame throwers
[oops]
The lady is obese, so what?, she sings, she tries to act, even near perfection
is boring.
no pasaran
andre35
Tyrrath
issues. I have seen a rapidly growing trend in opera toward casting based on
visual appropriateness (i.e., youth and slenderness) rather than on vocal
appropriateness. Witness the recent trend toward casting Mimi and Violetta as
lyric coloraturas! Both, IMHO, are spinto roles - but there are few spintos who
fit the physical profile of the consumptive. Likewise, I've seen a number of
soubrettes of late attempt Donna Anna (unable to make it through Non mi dir at
the end). There are some spintos out there who would do lovely jobs of these
roles, but they are too busy preparing their /Isoldes/ and other Wagner
blockbusters to want to bother. Why? Because companies hire them - paying them
very well indeed - for their visual appropriateness. They can get through these
roles, but that is all.
Some have asserted that some of the larger ladies who sing the big fachs are
also merely spintos singing music too large for them because they cannot be
hired to sing music more appropriate for their voices. This may be true - in
which case it is the other side of the same coin I've been discussing. But most
of them are close enough to what is needed for these roles (closer in most
cases than the skinnier Minnies - pardon the pun :) ) that to disqualify them
from performing these roles on the basis of their appearance would be a grave
injustice both to them but to the art form.
Now some artists cope with weight more effectively than others. If a singer
cannot move well onstage, has a limited repertoire of facial expressions and
physical gestures because the excess weight is incapacitating them, etc., I can
understand criticizing them. But if an artist is able to compensate for his or
her size with dramatic artistry, then the audience should suspend disbelief
even if they don't fit society's rigid standards for beauty.
Richard C. Wall
MA-J Burdett
prove this is that they tack with other comments by critics as well as posts
on this forum.
You have made two false assumptions. First that I am unquestioning. Wrong.
Second that I am intolerant of large singers. Wrong. I have no quibble
with Dolores Zajack, Aprille Millo, Eva Marton, Salminen, Pavarotti (when he
was not obese), Gregorian, Sutherland, Vickers, Pons, Swenson.
I do agree, however, that I made an assumption when I stated that few people
can be attracted to obese people as a viewer of a performance. Is it always
necessary to preface such remarks with IMHO?
By the way, I also have an aversion to aged and youthful lovers being cast
together. The Sills MANON and the recent Domingo/Borodina SAMSON. I still
enjoyed these videos but the age variance was distracting.
My comments often come across as forcefully opinionated (my spouse chides me
for it). I do not believe I am a bigot, however.
Tyrrath wrote in message <19991207001049...@ng-bd1.aol.com>...
>>I may not have expressed my opinion clearly, but you are dead wrong in
your
>>assertion that I am a bigot. Dead wrong! How you could come to that
>>conclusin from my post I do not understand.
>
Shahrdad
Candide <Some...@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:4vy24.670$WK6.1...@typhoon1.gnilink.net...
> I hate to keep harping back to Ms. Callas but her example is one not soon
to
> be forgotten, a fate hanging over many a soprano fach whom would like to
> reshape their bodies: Do so at The Voice's Peril.
I think Callas is the wrong singer to bring up, because at the time when she
started her weight loss, not much was known about the body's physiologic
changes with rapid weight loss. Her mistake was that she lost her weight by
diet alone, not by a combination of aerobic excercise and weight training to
increase or maintain her muscle mass. And remember, not till that long ago,
the preferred methods of weight loss were starving one's self, and either
sweating in a sauna or using those funny massage machines with the belt that
went around the waist.
If they knew as much about correct weight loss and maintenance in 1953 as
they do now, I doubt Callas would have suffered the vocal change that she
did suffer.
If Ms. Eaglen would submit herself to a well desciplined regiment of proper
and slow weight loss, along with aerobic and weight training, if anything, I
suspect her singing will improve. From the interviews I've heard with her,
she's a most charming lady, and she does have a beautiful face. I would
love to see what new depths of beauty and femininity she may find in
herself, once she feels herself to be beautiful.
Though Callas' all-too-rapid weight loss was terrible for her voice, she did
find a new dimension of beauty and femininity in herself that she never had
before. I am sure it must have meant something to her to look in the mirror
and see a beautiful woman looking back at her.
S.
Tyrrath
>there.
>
>
Evidence for what? Which thread within this thread are you commenting on, JJ?
I don't need to quote the medical studies that appear about every three months
in the national news media blaming just about everything /but/ willpower for
the epidemic of obesity in the United States. Anyone who has failed to see or
hear these reports has been living under a rock.
Harpsichordist
>with Dolores Zajack, Aprille Millo, Eva Marton, Salminen, Pavarotti (when he
>was not obese)
I saw 6 perfomances of Salomé with Leonie Rysanek in one season (1975) . She
was not a "small girl" then, but she was riveting playing a" teenager" The
voice plus the acting talent makes the illusion work. I agree, the stand and
sing singers do nothing to further the art form..
Mark
HelenMynrd
say...I don't think of Sutherland, Zajack, Milo, Marton, Rysanek...etc...as
*BIG*...these are healthy looking large women...with some shape still
obvious.....when there is no shape in sight.....that is ......well, I won't
make the caps again....Big!!....This little post I made has turned into
something else.....I am sure, having been there, that taking off a bunch of
weight, carefully, would only enhance the voice...as well as give the singer
more confidence in herself.....I know what losing the weight did to
me.......and it was a hundred pounds that I lost....I sang better and acted
better and certainly looked better........a wonderful feeling....and it is not
easy to lose weight.......God knows, but it is possible if you are capable of
doing wonderful things with your voice that you might at least make the
effort....or accept the bashing....Love and keep singing......HelenM
Brian Moore
I've been reading this long-winded back-and-forth and the question that
keeps coming to me is this: who would you *rather* see (and hear)
in the role?
I have not seen her except in photos. I can imagine that her size could
be distracting. But having heard a tape of the Seattle Heppner/Eaglen
broadcast, all I can say is I found it extremely pleasurable. That's
not to say that some older recordings are not more pleasureable. But
can someone point me to someone *else* I might plausibly be able
to see/hear live who is clearly better than Eaglen now?
--
Brian G. Moore, School of Science, Penn State Erie--The Behrend College
bg...@psu.edu , (814)-898-6334
Candide
to marry Jackie Kennedy instead.
--
Candide
Tout est pour le mieux dans le mielleur des mondes possibles
(Everything is for the best in the best of possible worlds)
Voltaire (1694-1778)
Shahrdad <Shah...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:82k5hf$20n$1...@newsreader.wustl.edu...
Matthew B. Tepper
Some...@anywhere.com is reputed to have iterated as follows...
>
>Yes I am sure it did, too bad Mr.Onasis did not feel the same way and
>chose to marry Jackie Kennedy instead.
Wouldn't this have necessitated putting out a contract on Mr. Meneghini?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
Tyrrath
>cover of a romance novel and Isolde from a fashion magazine,alas it was not
>to be.
Hmmm....you've given me an idea. I'll launch my career as an impresario with
the FABULOUS new production of Tristan (by, say George Lucas) with Fabio as
Tristan and Fran Drescher as Isolde! They're absolutely beautiful people, and
they ought to sell lots of tickets! (actually, I /would/ pay money to see those
two 'do' those parts!;))
Matthew B. Tepper
>
I'm just looking forward to Isolde's curse, now rendered into English as, "Oh,
mistah TRIS-tan! Ah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hahhhh!" And of course at the end of
Act II, Melot won't run Tristan through, but instead belt him with a goose.
Tyrrath
>I'm just looking forward to Isolde's curse, now rendered into English as,
>"Oh,
>mistah TRIS-tan! Ah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hahhhh!" And of course at the end
>of
>Act II, Melot won't run Tristan through, but instead belt him with a goose.
ROTFL
Matthew B. Tepper
harpsic...@aol.com is reputed to have iterated as follows...
Geez, and I thought I was obsessive for having seen the 1974 San Francisco
production three times!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Hochdram
Forgive me, but I am unfamiliar with your accomplishments. Would you enlighten
me? We all know what Ms. Eaglen has accomplished despite what some consider her
implausibility on stage, but I would be thrilled to know the heights to which
YOU have risen as a result of weight loss. Oh, and were you able to achieve
this while maintaining an international operatic career?
HDD
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
I don't think she has ever claimed to have had an
international career - just to have sung professsionally in
her own small way, to be a voice teacher in Las Vegas, and
to strongly admire Andrea Bocelli. I don't agree with her
assertions about weight loss, but we must each judge that by
our own experiences, or what we have observed in others.
And I never was in the situation Eaglen and Sweet and the
others menioned here are. So long as I was actively
singing, I didn't HAVE a weight problem - I worked it off,
just as dancers do. (I was big, but only that, not "fat"
and certainly not "obese".) It wasn't until I began winding
down that my "normal" eating habits produced weight gain.
(And like the joke goes, "I keep trying to lose weight, but
it keeps finding me!")
James
impossible, to substantiate, why not just let the market bear the weight
of "can fat women sing"?
You don't like it, wait for a slimmer singer to perform. The idea of
not attending a performance based on the weight of the singer just
wouldn't occur to me, and I'd rather not be denied my options due to
other's preferences.