Those who heard Caruso live
Mike Richter
particularly the first few issues - varied in their sound quality at
least as much as the 78's did. I have many of the LP's of that series
and find that some reveal a marvelous instrument while others suggest
that he had never learned to produce a pure tone.
Mike
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
>
> As a matter of fact, about 20 years ago, right when the first RCA
> issues of "deconvoluted" Soundstream Caruso transfers were being
> issued, I met an elderly gentleman at a record store in downtown Los
> Angeles. He had heard Caruso live, he appeared to have good mental
> acuity, and he seemed to be in possession of most of his hearing, and
> he felt after some deliberation that those then-new transfers were the
> most realistic ones he had heard.
mric...@mindspring.com
http://mrichter.simplenet.com
CD-R http://resource.simplenet.com
Cfehlandt
heard Caruso in 1918 in L'Elisir. AFter we had listened to several recordings
of the great man, I asked him if they were faithful reproductions of the voice
he heard at that performance. Acknowledging that recall at 80 years remove is
somewhat unreliable (this fellow was still "all there" mentally), he said that
what the recording did not capture was the velvety softness of the Caruso
sound (in Una Furtiva Lagrima, especially) and how it seemed to envelop his
ears.
Does anyone else have other such accounts to relate about people who heard
Caruso in person and could describe the way he sounded? The line of those who
had the privilege is growing awfully thin.
CF
PS: Those of you who were opera fanatics back in the 50s and 60s must have
spoken to some old- and not-so-old-timers then who had heard him.
Matthew B. Tepper
issues of "deconvoluted" Soundstream Caruso transfers were being
issued, I met an elderly gentleman at a record store in downtown Los
Angeles. He had heard Caruso live, he appeared to have good mental
acuity, and he seemed to be in possession of most of his hearing, and
he felt after some deliberation that those then-new transfers were the
most realistic ones he had heard.
In article <199809020524...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
cfeh...@aol.com pondered what I'm pondering as follows:
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
donpaolo
doubt, his "biggest fan".
His chiedf avenues of praise centered around the sheer beauty of Caruso's
sound, combined with ample volume & the emotion & passion that was thereby
generated. The man literally brought tears to one's eyes, according to my
uncle.
Now, dig this - my uncle had an old wind-up victrola that he maintained in
perfect condition, right through the early 70's when he passes away. He
maintained that the sound emanating through the "speakers" was the *true* &
*genuine* reproduction of the singers of that era.
I remember being almost shaken when listening, for example, to Ruffo's
renditions of the Credo, "all'erta marinar" & "sei vendicatta assai".
Honestly, that reproduction sounded exactly as though the artist was in the
same room with the listener.
Does anyone have similat experiences with the old wind-up machines?
Regards,
DonPaolo
Skip
etc. Your training your ear well, keep listening.
Wotan99
As usual we are on the same wave length. I have posted this before, here and
in other places, but never got a reaction..apparently no one was interested or
aware. Yes, Victrolas. I have my grandparents (a beautiful one made of mahagony
(not the opera I hope) with gold-plated(!) metal, which i maintain in
excellent shape, and often listen to. I have a good selection of old
recordings, overweighted with Caruso-butwith many others- the sound has a
reality that is unlike other electrical-digital machines, and people who have
never heard it, find the sound unbelievable, and with a physical presence that
is uncanny. The mens voices, Ruffo, Caruso, Amato, Stracciari etc. are the
best, womens' voices tend to sound shrill and thin. A little brass in the voice
helps, and that may be one of the reasons for Caruso's huge success..a great
voice,and the right one for the technology, at the right time.
I feel closest to Caruso when I hear his voice this way-no electrcity-just
physical vibration transfered in time, from vibration to real vibration.
I'll talk about it some more if there is an interest, and wonder if there are
others who indulge themselves this way, with the risk of being viewed as, well,
eccentric
(By the way, in our recent discussion of tenors of that era, how could we
forget my hero-Jon Vickers!)
Best,
W99
GRNDPADAVE
>From: wot...@aol.com (Wotan99)
>Date: Wed, Sep 2, 1998 16:02 EDT
>Message-id: <199809022002...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
In my estimation the modern day tenor whose voice and musicianship most
resembles that of Enrico Caruso is oddly out of favor with so many of the
afficionados here.
-
Dare I say his name. I received a clipping from the Paris press which
appreciated our tenor's beautifully sung "Rachel quand du Seigneur" is the 3
Tenors Concert preceding the World Cup Final in Paris.
-
Caruso and Don Domingo share warm, burnished voices deeply baritonal in color
but splendid mid-voices and enough top to make for thrilling sounds. Such full
voices are rare in tenors. And they have volume without shouting.
-
That's my opinion for what it's worth (probably not much to those who appear
anti-PD on principle).
==G/P Dave
Mike Richter
>
> Now, dig this - my uncle had an old wind-up victrola that he maintained in
> perfect condition, right through the early 70's when he passes away. He
> maintained that the sound emanating through the "speakers" was the *true* &
> *genuine* reproduction of the singers of that era.
Some months ago, I posted at my WWW site a collection of versions of a
portion of an Irish song sung by John McCormack. They were from a
Columbia Phonola with various needles (steel, plastic and cactus),
recorded close up and farther away, the 78 played on a modern table and
recorded electronically, an LP reissue recorded electronically and with
room ambience.
There was no consensus about the results, but the differences are
dramatic. The page is, of course, preserved on one of my CD-ROMs.
Mike
solovoice
To the left of my computer is a circa 1926 console Victoria in fairly
decent condition. To hear Caruso through an acoustical player is a
unique experience.
The sheer weight of the tone arm and a deteriorating diaphram keep me
from listening to it. I haven't wound it up in years. It languished
in an old country house that two great aunts lived in -- no air
conditioning, but is not in too bad a shape. I would love to restore
it.
There is a dentist in town (Augusta, GA) who collects old Victrolas,
but my one experience in speaking with him was not very pleasurable.
I would love to own a "morning glory."
But I digress. It is wonderful sitting in front of this machine and
listening to the old singers. With Caruso you get a feel of his
power.
I have mentioned recently about once knowing an old gentleman who was
a supernum....(extra) on the Met stage to pick up extra money. He was
not particularly interested in opera, but he remarked many times how
he was impressed with the power of Caruso's voice.
John
On 2 Sep 1998 13:28:06 GMT, "donpaolo" <donp...@erols.com> wrote:
>My uncle, who worked at the Old Met during the Caruso era was, without a
>doubt, his "biggest fan".
>
>His chiedf avenues of praise centered around the sheer beauty of Caruso's
>sound, combined with ample volume & the emotion & passion that was thereby
>generated. The man literally brought tears to one's eyes, according to my
>uncle.
>
>Now, dig this - my uncle had an old wind-up victrola that he maintained in
>perfect condition, right through the early 70's when he passes away. He
>maintained that the sound emanating through the "speakers" was the *true* &
>*genuine* reproduction of the singers of that era.
>
>I remember being almost shaken when listening, for example, to Ruffo's
>renditions of the Credo, "all'erta marinar" & "sei vendicatta assai".
>Honestly, that reproduction sounded exactly as though the artist was in the
>same room with the listener.
>
>Does anyone have similat experiences with the old wind-up machines?
>
>Regards,
>
>DonPaolo
>
>
>
>
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
-- Benjamin Franklin
Elizabeth & Keith Falkner
street in the early 1900s. He had the choice of hearing Caruso or
spending the night with a "Lady of the Evening" of a MUCH higher class
than that to which he had been accustomed.
"WOW!", the 16 year old me said (1953). "Was Caruso REALLY good?"
He replied, "She had red hair. Both places."
Gee, I miss Grandpa.
Elizabeth
Ed Rosen
>-
>Dare I say his name. I received a clipping from the Paris press which
>appreciated our tenor's beautifully sung "Rachel quand du Seigneur" is
the 3
>Tenors Concert preceding the World Cup Final in Paris.
>-
>Caruso and Don Domingo share warm, burnished voices deeply baritonal
in color
>but splendid mid-voices and enough top to make for thrilling sounds.
Such full
>voices are rare in tenors. And they have volume without shouting.
I usually agree with my friend Dave, but tonight I cannot.
Domingo sounds like Caruso? Which one- Mariano?
I hear no resemblance. Caruso had a thrilling top, with squillo
galore. Domingo, IMO, has almost no top, and absolutely no squillo.
And Caruso never had to transpose the Juive aria down a half tone, as
Domingo did in the Three Tenors Concert. In the original key, the top
note is Bb. If Domingo cannot manage a Bb, why bother with the aria?
Certainly, Caruso never lowered this aria.
Sorry, Dave, but we part company on this singer.
Best,
Ed
LuciaMim
>In my estimation the modern day tenor whose voice and musicianship most
>resembles that of Enrico Caruso is oddly out of favor with so many of the
>afficionados here.
>Dare I say his name. I received a clipping from the Paris press which
>appreciated our tenor's beautifully sung "Rachel quand du Seigneur" is the 3
>Tenors Concert preceding the World Cup Final in Paris.
>Caruso and Don Domingo share warm, burnished voices deeply baritonal in color
>but splendid mid-voices and enough top to make for thrilling sounds. Such
>full
>voices are rare in tenors. And they have volume without shouting.
Dave:
I have to disagree. (And don't tell anyone, but I like PDomingo). I remember
reading Dorothy Caruso's comment that she felt that the singer who came closest
to Caruso's voice was Jussi Bjoerling. Now, this lady heard the man sing - not
on records - but a lot closer. And though I was truly surprised, I feel that
she probably was better able to judge than we. I grew up on Caruso records,
then Gigli.
I don't think PD, much as I like him, could give a performance of L'elisir
d'amore like Caruso did and then sing La Juive, both in his last year at the
Met.
Sincerely,
Mimi
GRNDPADAVE
>
>I have to disagree. (And don't tell anyone, but I like PDomingo). I
>remember
>reading Dorothy Caruso's comment that she felt that the singer who came
>closest
>to Caruso's voice was Jussi Bjoerling. Now, this lady heard the man sing -
>not
>on records - but a lot closer. And though I was truly surprised, I feel that
>she probably was better able to judge than we. I grew up on Caruso records,
>then Gigli.
>I don't think PD, much as I like him, could give a performance of L'elisir
>d'amore like Caruso did and then sing La Juive, both in his last year at the
>Met.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Mimi
Dear Mimi,
Your comments are delivered in good spirit, so let me offer the following
observations.
(1) Domingo sang and recorded a wonder ELISIR D'AMORE -- with Ileana Cotrubas,
Geraint Evans, splendidly conducted by Pritchard.
(2) Recall that Casruso was only 48 when he died. Domingo is still singing
quite well (although no longer Nemorino) at age 57.
(3) I do not think any afficionado would confuse the silvery almost laser-like
sound of Bjoerling with Caruso's much plusher sound. A favorite bit of Caruso
of mine is "Over There" a bit of which he even sings in French "Par la-bas". I
just cannot imagine Bjoerling singing a number such as this. But then I cannot
imagine Caruso singing "Jeanie with the light brown hair".
(4) Domingo has not sung LA JUIVE -- yet. But I sure would love to hear him do
it. The only commercial recording is the sad affair involving Carreras.
(5) Domingo, I'll admit. is past his prime. His Don Alvaro (with Levine,
Price, Milnes) -- especially the beautiful "Solenne in quest'ora" duet caused
me to remark on the resemblance with Caruso -- who made a splendid recording of
that number with Antonio Scotti.
--
All the best,
Dave
Marcia Dietrich
<snip>
>And Caruso never had to transpose the Juive aria down a half tone, as
>Domingo did in the Three Tenors Concert. In the original key, the top
>note is Bb. If Domingo cannot manage a Bb, why bother with the aria?
>Certainly, Caruso never lowered this aria.
Hi Ed,
Caruso died at around age 48, Domingo is now 57. You say 5 to 7
years older than that, so he is as much as 64 years of age in your view.
Seems to me Domingo does some pretty darn good tenor singing for a 64
year old baritone. :-) I believe even Caruso transposed a few things
early in his career, and if he had lived long enough he might have later
in his career as well. (Doesn't Caruso's entire recorded legacy fit on
about 10 CD's? If Domingo does have a problem it is overexposure, he
could probably fill 10 CD's just with his recorded renditions of Granada.
) As far as the squillo goes, some people seem to view it as an all or
nothing attribute, I feel there is a scale of intensity. Domingo has
more squillo than some and less than others, IMO.
Why not sing an aria in a lower key if it is sung well? Wasn't it
important one of the three do a French aria since they were in Paris?
They might have taken offense if the only French singing was in the
popular medly numbers. Pavarotti isn't known for his French singing.
Carreras was originally scheduled to do "Ah, levi toi..." from Romeo &
Juliet but didn't.
Domingo has recorded the La Juive aria in key (thus even I was able
to tell the Paris concert rendition was down a bit). If Grandpa Dave
hasn't heard it I'd be glad to send him a copy. And for anyone
interested, the CD of the Paris 3T concert cuts the La Juive aria - they
always cut one of each singer to make the concert fit on one CD - and
there is NO LIBRETTO! Arrgghhh! (the previous 3T CD's include libretto)
I hate that when CD's don't include libretto, esp. when there is
reasonably obscure arias and original material on the CD.
Marcia
Ed Rosen
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with Mimi and Dave.
Firstly, Domingo never sang Elisir on stage. Secondly, Caruso's
daughter Gloria is on record as saying that the tenor that most closely
resembles her father is Tucker.
The family of Caruso thought so much of Tucker, that they lent him and
let him use Caruso's costumes for a number of operas, including
Fanciulla and La Juive.
Tucker didn't sing Elisir either, but in the last year of his life, at
over 62 years, he sang such diverse roles as Radames, Manrico, the
Duke, Edgardo, Rodolfo, Canio, Chenier, and even Handel's Samson. I
think he should have sung Elisir, and often told him so. He did sing
the aria in almost every
concert he gave.
Tucker had the brilliant, thrilling thrust of a top that Caruso had,
and that Domingo never had.
BTW, Caruso only sang part of "Over There" in French. Much of it is in
English, though it may be difficult to tell.
I love Bjoerling, but I don't think his sound was Italianate. Tucker's
was.
Best,
Ed
Ed Rosen<legat...@earthlink.net> for free catalog & $5 per CD sale
Legato Classic, Inc.
http://www.legatoclassics.com
Len2Anne
>>In my estimation the modern day tenor whose voice and musicianship most
>>resembles that of Enrico Caruso is oddly out of favor with so many of the
>>afficionados here.
>>-
Is Domingo really so out of favour? What percentage of Domingo-bashing posts
have come from Ed Rosen and DonPaolo? To be honest, their constant denigration
of Domingo sickens me. I have no problem at all with people who don't care for
Domingo's voice as long as they don't write ad nauseam on the subject. There
are plenty of singers I can't abide (tenors especially) but I don't keep going
on about it. Ed Rosen recently spoke out against 'bullying' on rmo. Ironic,
as I consider him the biggest bully. I think, in fact, I know, that many
admirers of Domingo are intimidated by him (Rosen) and his cronies, and have
gone away in disgust. When I first joined this newsgroup almost two years ago
I asked in my naivete, where are all you Domingo fans? I was taken aback when
I received a number of messages commending my 'bravery' in publically admitting
to liking Domingo.
I listen to Domingo far less than I used to. But when I do, the sound of his
voice touches my very soul.
Anne Smith
donpaolo
Notwithstanding the transpositions of a singer his age (and, as we well
know, he has self-indulged in this practice ever since even the high A was
not within his grasp - many years ago), his total lack of ability to convey
the genuine, as opposed to lip service emotions & pathos of this aria made
it an annoyance for my ears.
Caruso set the standard for presenting this great aria & Tucker was the
only one who could match it in later years.
To equate Enrico Caruso, Richard Tucker & Domingo in this aria is simply
inappropriate, at best.
Regards,
DonP.
Ed Rosen <lyr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<6sl35q$i...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>...
>
>
> >-
> >Dare I say his name. I received a clipping from the Paris press which
> >appreciated our tenor's beautifully sung "Rachel quand du Seigneur" is
> the 3
> >Tenors Concert preceding the World Cup Final in Paris.
> >-
> >Caruso and Don Domingo share warm, burnished voices deeply baritonal
> in color
> >but splendid mid-voices and enough top to make for thrilling sounds.
> Such full
> >voices are rare in tenors. And they have volume without shouting.
>
>
> I usually agree with my friend Dave, but tonight I cannot.
>
> Domingo sounds like Caruso? Which one- Mariano?
>
> I hear no resemblance. Caruso had a thrilling top, with squillo
> galore. Domingo, IMO, has almost no top, and absolutely no squillo.
>
> And Caruso never had to transpose the Juive aria down a half tone, as
> Domingo did in the Three Tenors Concert. In the original key, the top
> note is Bb. If Domingo cannot manage a Bb, why bother with the aria?
> Certainly, Caruso never lowered this aria.
>
Ed Rosen
(Len2Anne) writes:
>
>GrandpaDave, I think, commented:
>
>>>In my estimation the modern day tenor whose voice and musicianship
most
>>>resembles that of Enrico Caruso is oddly out of favor with so many
of the
>>>-
>
We have been through this before, Anne. I was simply responding to
post comparing Domingo to Caruso with facts and opinions. A fact is
that Domingo lowered the Juive aria. An opinion is that he never had a
thrilling, soaring top.
I mean to intimidate nobody, and nobody should feel this way. I don't
"attack" people- I respectfully disagree and state my opinion politely.
I would think that even Dave, with whom I disagreed, understands what I
said and doesn't consider me intimitating.
Please, Anne- don't be so thin skinned.
My favorite tenor of today is Jose Carreras. So there. He has been
attacked and vilified on this list much more than Domingo.
Anybody should be albe to say anything they truly feel and believe. It
shoud be done with courtesy and politeness. I believe I have met these
standards.
Best,
Ed
donpaolo
Len2Anne <len2...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199809031613...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
. Ed Rosen recently spoke out against 'bullying' on rmo. Ironic,
> as I consider him the biggest bully. I think, in fact, I know, that many
> admirers of Domingo are intimidated by him (Rosen) and his cronies,
Funny, isn't it Ed - you're accused of being a "bully", for expressing your
opinion. Personally, I have never, ever, read a post wherein you have
flamed any individual with whom you have dissagreed. You are always a
gentleman when expressing your experienced & learned operatic opinions,
even when they are strongly felt opinions.
And, this post comes from the same person who has resorted to some pretty
vile name calling herself. She & her cohorts have tossed out terms such as
"psychotic", "bigot" & others in referring to the people who *dare* to hear
a different & better tune than those PD-ruined ears.
Regards,
DonP.
Stregata
>And, this post comes from the same person who has resorted to some pretty
>vile name calling herself. She & her cohorts have tossed out terms such as
>"psychotic", "bigot" & others in referring to the people who *dare* to hear
>a different & better tune than those PD-ruined ears.
>
>Regards,
>
>DonP.
Not only "psychotic" and "bigot," but our knowledge, judgment and mental sanity
have also been questioned because we "dare" to express a negative opinion on
Mr. Domingo. And not only that, a demand for credentials to post in this forum
was also asked of us a long time ago by someone in an awesome display of
arrogance. I wonder who is bullying who.
Stregata
TomKauf2
> What percentage of Domingo-bashing posts
have come from Ed Rosen and DonPaolo? To be honest, their constant denigration
of Domingo sickens me. I have no problem at all with people who don't care for
Domingo's voice as long as they don't write ad nauseam on the subject. There
are plenty of singers I can't abide (tenors especially) but I don't keep going
on about it. Ed Rosen recently spoke out against 'bullying' on rmo. Ironic,
as I consider him the biggest bully. I think, in fact, I know, that many
admirers of Domingo are intimidated by him (Rosen) and his cronies, and have
gone away in disgust.
If she is looking for bullies, she is really looking in the wrong place. She
should try a mirror--being one of the most outspoken posters in this newsgroup,
especially when it comes to launching personal attacks on people she happens to
disagree with. Ed, on the other hand (as Don Paolo and others have already
said) is always a fine gentleman, never attacks the poster, but voices his
disagreements politely and respectfully.
I really don't want to comment again on Domingo--my views are well known--and I
really love the idea of a complete Juive with him, provided he sings a role
that he could handle, such as Alberto or Ruggero. But, unlike the Carreras,
which I love dearly, it should be complete.
I could think of several tenors who could do the title role justice--Lotric,
who is to sing Jean (Le prophete) in Vienna, Grigorian, Doykov, and or
Ikaia-Purdy. But, Placido--do us all a favor, stay away--stick to Wagner.
Finally, Len2Anne complains about the frequency of anti-Domingo posts. I
certainly can not blame her for the mistakes made by the Met management, but
his inevitability has become sickening. A whole issue of Opera News is devoted
to him (well, almost)--and, as if that weren't bad enough, I will have to
decide whether to forego the Samson telecast, or be stuck with him again.
I will probably watch the first act--for the marvelous arias by Abimelech and
the High Priest which I enjoy so much--and skip his singing of "Israell rompe
ta chaine"--sure to strike no fear into the heart of even the most pusilanimous
Philistine.
No cheers this time
Tom Kaufman
solovoice
>
>I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with Mimi and Dave.
>
>Firstly, Domingo never sang Elisir on stage. Secondly, Caruso's
>daughter Gloria is on record as saying that the tenor that most closely
>resembles her father is Tucker.
>
But Ed, Gloria was, I think, 3 when Enrico died!
John
GRNDPADAVE
>We have been through this before, Anne. I was simply responding to
>post comparing Domingo to Caruso with facts and opinions. A fact is
>that Domingo lowered the Juive aria. An opinion is that he never had a
>thrilling, soaring top.
Ed has strong likes and dislikes but he argues well within the bounds of civil
discourse.
-
Recently I bought an RCA Caruso cd album containing 70+ minutes of excerpts
from FAUST. I also have -- and greatly enjoy Domingo's recording of the
complete opera.
-
The timbres of these two great singers never seemed to me more alike than in
this opera. And talk about top, Domingo was able to hit the high C which is
requisite to "Salut demeure". I am not sure when this recording was made, but
Domingo can be heard in superb voice along with Freni, Ghiaurov, and Thomas
Allen.
-
I have enjoyed Domingo's beautiful voice for many years and I am pleasantly
surprised how well he sings at age 57. (Pavarotti at 62 is simply miraculous,
imho).
-
I thought Domingo had sung ELISIR at Covent Garden with John Pritchard
conducting -- but whether he did or not he made a wonderful recording of that
Donizetti masterpiece.
-
Ed might should have mentioned that Tucker sang the role of Lionel in an
English version of MARTHA. (Lionel was a major role for Caruso). (Rudolf Bing
was annoyed because Tucker chose sing "Ach so fromm" in Italian rather than in
the English translation). I enjoy Tucker -- but I cannot accept the
glottal-stopping clipped diction or that excessive and intrusive sob
(particularly disfiguring to the role of Don Alvaro) . Early in his career
Tucker was far more musicianly in this respect. His exemplary Radames for
Toscanini in 1946 bears witness to this.
-
Domingo's musical taste seems to me just about impeccable. Beautiful --
unaspirated legatos -- accurate rhythm and fairly scrupulous observance of the
dynamic markings. There is volume but never shouting.
-
Domingo need not be praised at the expense of other artists. Carreras has been
criticized -- but I cannot recall his name being associated with any of the
vituperation that seems to be accorded mention of Domingo's name.
-
Citing some silly Domingo/Milnes hype from somebody's LP liner notes from 25
or 30 years past is what I have in mind in terms of the gratuitous vilification
that Domingo receives from contributors to this news group.
-
I enjoy Domingo's work and the sound of his voice. Others may not -- so be it.
-
==G/P Dave
drak...@aol.com
compares with Caruso. He had a "soft voice" with power and a baritonal
timbre which wasn't harsh or nasal. His early sound was a very substantial
lyric voice. Domingo's voice is much lighter than that of the mature Caruso.
Corelli's voice was not so dark or fat as the Caruso voice. To find someone
like Caruso, you would have to take Mario del Monaco, make his voice sweeter
(less nasal), and give him the flexibility to sing lyric parts.
Howard Hood
In article <199809030902...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Frank Schneiders
> lyr...@ix.netcom.com(Ed Rosen) wrote:
> <snip>
> >And Caruso never had to transpose the Juive aria down a half tone, as
> >Domingo did in the Three Tenors Concert. In the original key, the top
> >note is Bb. If Domingo cannot manage a Bb, why bother with the aria?
> >Certainly, Caruso never lowered this aria.
>
But Caruso transposed "Che gelida manina" and other things as at has
been the rule at this and earlier times. There are a dozen of records by
Bonci, de Lucia, Anselmi, Schipa, McCormack.... (not to mention even so
stratospheric sopranos like Tetrazzini) who transposed arias.
I think its a miracle that a so busy tenor like Domingo has kept so much
voice at his age. There is no wobble at all no loose of colour or power
and enough top notes if he is in top form (not so many if he is tired, I
agree). He is the most versatile of all living tenors (and nearly most
dead, too) and he is expieriencing new things, too and not resting with
two or three parts like Pavarotti (who also has enough voice for an old
man). He is the most musical and intelligent singer of all and in this
sense he may be no tenor at all. But there has never been a perfect
singer or perfect human beeing, why Domingo. It will be as always: in
twenty years people will lament that the golden time of singing passed
and there isn´t any more a Domingo, Pavarotti.....
Frank
Marcia Dietrich
<much snipped>
>I think its a miracle that a so busy tenor like Domingo has kept so
much
>voice at his age.
Thanks for your comments Frank. And it is amazing that Domingo has
probably sang well over twice as many performances as most singers do in
a career, yet has most of his voice still intact at this stage of his
career.
Marcia
Len2Anne
(TomKauf2) writes:
>If she is looking for bullies, she is really looking in the wrong place. She
>should try a mirror--being one of the most outspoken posters in this
>newsgroup,
>especially when it comes to launching personal attacks on people she happens
>to
>disagree with. Ed, on the other hand (as Don Paolo and others have already
>said) is always a fine gentleman, never attacks the poster, but voices his
>disagreements politely and respectfully.
I have only very rarely posted to this newsgroup on the subject of Domingo (or
anything else for that matter) and only under provocation. Yes, I have
insulted DonPaolo on a couple ( I stress the word 'couple') of occasions. I
once called Stregata a witch, whereupon you jumped on me like a ton of bricks.
I seem to remember she herself admitted to being a witch in a later
thread.....I have never insulted you personally, though I have been sorely
tempted when YOU have insulted me.
Anne Smith
Len2Anne
(Stregata) writes:
>
>Not only "psychotic" and "bigot," but our knowledge, judgment and mental
>sanity
>have also been questioned because we "dare" to express a negative opinion on
>Mr. Domingo. And not only that, a demand for credentials to post in this
>forum
>was also asked of us a long time ago by someone in an awesome display of
>arrogance. I wonder who is bullying who.
I have never called anyone 'psychotic'. I once, about a year ago, called
DonPaolo 'bigoted'. I have never questioned your knowledge, judgement or
mental sanity, nor have I asked for 'credentials'.
Anne Smith
Len2Anne
Rosen) writes:
>We have been through this before, Anne. I was simply responding to
>post comparing Domingo to Caruso with facts and opinions. A fact is
>that Domingo lowered the Juive aria. An opinion is that he never had a
>thrilling, soaring top.
>
>I mean to intimidate nobody, and nobody should feel this way. I don't
>"attack" people- I respectfully disagree and state my opinion politely.
Ed, I apologise for calling you a bully. I accept that you don't mean to
intimidate. Nevertheless, I, for one, feel intimidated by some of your posts,
possibly because of their frequency.
My earlier comments were meant in a general sense, I was not referring to the
Caruso post in particular (perhaps I should have changed the subject heading).
I am aware of the difference between facts and opinions.
Anne Smith
Len2Anne
<donp...@erols.com> writes:
>And, this post comes from the same person who has resorted to some pretty
>vile name calling herself. She & her cohorts have tossed out terms such as
>"psychotic", "bigot" & others in referring to the people who *dare* to hear
>a different & better tune than those PD-ruined ears.
>
>
What exactly do you call 'vile name-calling'? Yes, I've insulted you. Once, a
year ago, I called you 'bigoted' and once, in a Limerick, a 'sad, old, git'.
Hardly vile, considering the language elsewhere on this newsgroup.
Who are my 'cohorts'? I don't have any! Nor do I want any.
Again this constant refrain of 'daring' to disagree and 'daring' to hear this,
that and the other. I couldn't care less if you loathe Domingo. I just get
fed up with hearing about it over and over and over again.
Anne Smith
TomKauf2
one occasion, she suggested that another poster on r.m.o. is in need of a new
therapist (under the letterP).
Then she said that a fellow poster gives her the creeps.
As for me, she once posted--and I quote it verbatim:
>Well said, Stregata. Perhaps Anne Smith might learn something from AT's style
>
Okay. RELAX!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE TOO CRAPPY STIFF!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anne Smith
What would you call that--a compliment?
Sure there are others
Tom
donpaolo
Sure, there are others.
On March 3, the suddenly self-righteous & short (or selective) memoried
Annie suggested that I check the yellow pages for a change in therapist.
To give her the benefit of the doubt, perhaps someone broke into her
home/office, logged in with her password & used her name to post that crap.
Now, had she (or this phantom interloper) suggested, for example, an
otorhinolaryngological exam, that would have been met with a good-humored
response.
Why, if we are such terrible folk, causing her such agitation, in your
opinion, does she continue to read our postings? She must derive some
pleasure (most likely learning) from our learned opinions, don't you think?
Regards,
DonPaolo
TomKauf2 <tomk...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199809041805...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Len2Anne
TomKauf2
as follows:
>I have only very rarely posted to this newsgroup on the subject of Domingo
>(or
>anything else for that matter) and only under provocation. Yes, I have
>insulted DonPaolo on a couple ( I stress the word 'couple') of occasions. I
>once called Stregata a witch, whereupon you jumped on me like a ton of
>bricks.
>I seem to remember she herself admitted to being a witch in a later
>thread.....I have never insulted you personally, though I have been sorely
>tempted when YOU have insulted me.
>
>Anne Smith
I then replied at 1:05, as follow; (without quoting her--perhaps I should have
made it easier for her to respond properly>:
A check of Dejanews indicates that Len2Anne has a somewhat selective memory. On
one occasion, she suggested that another poster on r.m.o. is in need of a new
therapist (under the letterP).
Then she said that a fellow poster gives her the creeps.
As for me, she once posted--and I quote it verbatim:
>Well said, Stregata. Perhaps Anne Smith might learn something from AT's style
>
Okay. RELAX!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE TOO CRAPPY STIFF!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anne Smith
What would you call that--a compliment?
Sure there are others
Tom
So, seeing another post from her (now at 3:19 P.M. EST), and expecting a
brilliant comeback--what do I get, but the same old claim about never (well
hardly ever) insulting anyone except for Don Paolo
P.S.--exactly what did I say when "I jumped on Anne Smith like a ton of bricks"
for calling Stregata a witch?
Oh well.
Tom
Len2Anne
(TomKauf2) writes:
>Okay. RELAX!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE TOO CRAPPY STIFF!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
Mr Kaufmann, the above is a DIRECT quote from your friend AT. I'm sorry you
didn't recognise it as such at the time. And I could learn from his wit and
style? Furthermore I said his POSTS give me the creeps. And they did.
(Hehehehe) In case I have to spell it out, I'm quoting him again.
With regard to your defence of Stregata, you asked me (though I don't think it
was any of your business) something along the lines of 'Since when do you get
off calling other people witches?'
As for DonPaolo, I stand by my original comments.
Anne Smith
Matthew B. Tepper
Caruso's voice, has been stabbed in the stomach and allowed to die. Too
bad. I was actually interested in the original subject matter.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/index.htm
My main music page --- http://www.deltanet.com/~ducky/berlioz.htm
And my science fiction club's home page --- http://www.lasfs.org/
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Matthew B. Tepper
Matthew B. Tepper
Matthew B. Tepper
Matthew B. Tepper
Matthew B. Tepper
Enrique Eskenazi
<duckyĂľ@deltanet.com> wrote:
>*sigh* I guess this thread, which once was actually about discussion
of
>Caruso's voice, has been stabbed in the stomach and allowed to die.
Too
>bad. I was actually interested in the original subject matter.
>
It must be wo, when you posted it five times! :-)
---
Enrique
eske...@mail.sendanet.es
Io chi sono? Eh, non lo so.
-Nol sapete?
Quasi no.
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: Fri, Sep 4, 1998 10:54 EDT
>Message-id: <6souul$672m$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>
quarters that will, in effect, use these remarks the way Roger Maris handled a
pitch hurled by Milt Pappas in 1961.
-
Domingo transposes a semitone and this becomes a causus belli (as though most
tenors and other singers do not engage in this practice).
-
At any rate I find the quality and heft of Domingo's voice still impressive and
I salute the courage of those who are willing to brave the barrage of scoffers
who are certain to contribute negative replies.
-
All the best,
G/P Dave
Ed Rosen
>Domingo transposes a semitone and this becomes a causus belli (as
though most
>tenors and other singers do not engage in this practice).
>-
G/P Dave
>
My only pboblem with this, Dave, is that other singers transpose to
avoid high C's, and sing B naturals instead. Domingo transposes to
avoid high Bb's, and sings A's instead. That is a big difference,
IMHO.
Bb's are the money notes for tenors, and without a good one, a tenor
cannot get through most Italian operas.
No other tenor to my knowledge has transposed to avoid only a high Bb.
Best,
Ed
Matthew B. Tepper
of Caruso's voice, has been stabbed in the stomach and allowed to die.
Too bad. I was actually interested in the original subject matter.
--
Matthew B. Tepper
Wotan99
fight. We've had that discussion before.
Two were interested in Victrolas, one kept bemoaning the discussion, but added
nothing new.
So for those interested, let's return to the Victrola-at least. Mine is a
wonderful mahagony cabinet style from the early 20's and in mint condition.
Acouple of times a month i crank it up and listen to a few selected recordings.
Those who know, know that it has a physical presence that is, as I said
uncanny. In the summer I put on a record and go outside, and listen from a
window-it sounds like the singer is in the room, and generally I listen from
another room. Yes, different needles change the sound and volume, and opening
and closing the doors of the "speaker" is another way to control the volume.
Caruso's voice seemed matched to that technology, and he apparentl;y had an
innate sense of how to record; e.g. turned away from the recording horn for
high notes. He often just gives you too much (and as Steane remarks, you think
he's going to have a stroke) but i think it was just his nature to give it
everything he had. The powercan blow you out of the room-I think of Rachel, and
le Cid arias as examples of that or the sleale section of Forza. My mother who
grew up with this Victrola in her early yrs. always disliked his voice because
of the power-hardness she called it. But the lyric qualities work on the
Victrola too, as they do with McCormack, whose voice sounds like a pure
mountain stream.
Any other Victrola enthusiasts out there?
(By the way there is a man near where I live who restores them, and I know
there are many like him scattered around the country)
W99
Cfehlandt
original issue, as Mr. Teppner has suggested, or at least start identifying our
posts under another subject.
What I wanted to elicit were accounts from RMO contributors of their
conversations with opera-goers who had heard Caruso in person. I also thought
that since a good many of the posters are from the NYC area, some might know
people still living in or around the city who remember hearing Caruso and the
impression he made on them.
CJF
Frank Schneiders
matter of personal taste. I know some people who hate Corelli for his
vocal machismo or Kraus because they think his voice is colorless or
Tucker, because his vocalism had so many sobs and there are some who
continuously spread the news that Domingo not even has a Bb. May be that
they never heard him sing Aida, Carmen, Comtes d´Hoffmann or other
little roles there he has to sing it (and did perfectly). May be, also,
that in this Newsgroup some participants are stronger and more than
others. Its as always a question of personal taste. Nothing more. But
its wrong and discriminating to say that people who, for instance, like
Domingo and think that he is a great singer and tenor, should have no
idea about singing. There are some performances with Carlos Kleiber
(Otello and Carmen) where PD is for me one of the greatest exponents of
these parts, there are also examples that PD is stressed and has only a
limited top. This is mostly the case if he has sung too much or has a
conductor who is not up to his artificial height.
Ma basta, for me he is one of the great singers, artists (!!!) of our
times and the century.
Chacun à son goût!
Frank
Matthew B. Tepper
frank_sc...@magicvillage.de pondered what I'm pondering as
follows:
>
[whining, bitching, and moaning mercifully snipped]
Marcia Dietrich
>*sigh* I guess this thread, which once was actually about discussion
>of Caruso's voice, has been stabbed in the stomach and allowed to die.
>Too bad. I was actually interested in the original subject matter.
Good golly Matthew, I'm not sure the 7 or 8 times this has posted will do
this subject much good. Subjects go astray, you can still discuss the
subject and talk around the side-discussions. Why don't you ask a
question or make a pertinent comment? That is more likely to spur the
discussion you'd like to see here.
Here is something I did want to ask. Though it is too early to tell what
his career will be like, does anyone find Jose Cura's voice at all
comparable to Caruso's? I think Cura is most comparable in sound to Del
Monaco, but there is something that reminds me of Caruso as well.
Something in going from that baritonal sound to the high notes seems like
two different voices.
Marcia
donpaolo
Wotan99 <wot...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199809050320...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
<<snipped>>
Wotan -
Yes, the feeling of a live presence is indeed uncanny; especially, as I
have stated, with respect to the baritones & basses. The women's voices do
tend to sound very tinny/metalic, like the strings of an orchestra...low
fi.
Can you just imagine the ear-splitting experience of hearing Ruffo thru
those machines?
How the devil do you obtain replacement parts or even needles?
Regards,
DonP.
DAVID A DI LUZIO
drak...@aol.com wrote in article <6snc8m$sla$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> I don't think there has been a subsequent tenor with a major career who
> compares with Caruso. He had a "soft voice" with power and a baritonal
> timbre which wasn't harsh or nasal. His early sound was a very
substantial
> lyric voice. Domingo's voice is much lighter than that of the mature
Caruso.
> Corelli's voice was not so dark or fat as the Caruso voice. To find
someone
> like Caruso, you would have to take Mario del Monaco, make his voice
sweeter
> (less nasal), and give him the flexibility to sing lyric parts.
>
Very Well Put, Caruso is unique!
Wotan99
Actually there were so many made it seems very easy to get parts and
needles-even more modern steel ones work. As I mentioned there's a guy who
repairs and sells them near by, and that is not uncommon...they are always for
sale...naturally restored ones cost a lot more. (I'm sure there must be
something on the internet about them..but I never looked..it is not a hobby of
mine..I just love the sound) Also records (acoustical) keep turning up,
although not nearly as common as the electrical 78s people always find--wrong
ones, no value. Often people have a box of acoustical red seals etc. in an
attic..just a few yrs. ago my collection was doubled by such a gift.
I'm sure you have heard the Prima Voce series of recordings. They simply looked
for the best old record they could find, played it back with proper
speed-therefore proper pitch-and used an enormous fiberglass horn, and then
without gimicks simply recorded it. I find the acoustical ones they did, with
the original sound in my ears, very good.
Yes, the brassy/'bronze voices recorded best..I have Ruffo doing Pagliacci
prologue, si pel ciel with Caruso (makes your hair stand up) and others....his
voice roars like a lion, and yet can be beautifully lyrical.
Consider buying one, if you've never heard some of those voices on an old
machine, it will be a new insight into those voices
W99
Cfehlandt
like two different voices to me, as the Bbs and Bs always have a dark quality,
at least after, say, 1915.
Cura does remind me most of Del Monaco, but at times his top also has the
(ap)pealing quality of Corelli.
CJF
Enrique Eskenazi
KPR...@prodigy.com (Marcia Dietrich) wrote:
>Here is something I did want to ask. Though it is too early to tell
what
>his career will be like, does anyone find Jose Cura's voice at all
>comparable to Caruso's? I think Cura is most comparable in sound to
Del
>Monaco, but there is something that reminds me of Caruso as well.
>Something in going from that baritonal sound to the high notes seems
like
>two different voices.
In his Puccini recital disc I listened more than two different voices...
Ed Rosen
To find
>someone
>> like Caruso, you would have to take Mario del Monaco, make his voice
>sweeter
>> (less nasal), and give him the flexibility to sing lyric parts.
In other words, you have just described Richard Tucker!!!
Best,
Ed
The Grand Inquisitor
players, and they were as effective as the steel ones. Thet just wore out
sooner.
-
"Question everything"._Richard Feynman
donpaolo wrote in message <01bdd915$c2b7adc0$722daccf@default>...
Jerel Zoltick
it is quoted in one Bjoerling's biographies...
jerel
Ed Rosen wrote in message <6sm9qi$p...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>...
>
>I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with Mimi and Dave.
>
>Firstly, Domingo never sang Elisir on stage. Secondly, Caruso's
>daughter Gloria is on record as saying that the tenor that most closely
>resembles her father is Tucker.
>
>The family of Caruso thought so much of Tucker, that they lent him and
>let him use Caruso's costumes for a number of operas, including
>Fanciulla and La Juive.
>
>Tucker didn't sing Elisir either, but in the last year of his life, at
>over 62 years, he sang such diverse roles as Radames, Manrico, the
>Duke, Edgardo, Rodolfo, Canio, Chenier, and even Handel's Samson. I
>think he should have sung Elisir, and often told him so. He did sing
>the aria in almost every
> concert he gave.
>
>Tucker had the brilliant, thrilling thrust of a top that Caruso had,
>and that Domingo never had.
>
>BTW, Caruso only sang part of "Over There" in French. Much of it is in
>English, though it may be difficult to tell.
>
>I love Bjoerling, but I don't think his sound was Italianate. Tucker's
>was.
>
>
>Best,
>Ed
>Ed Rosen<legat...@earthlink.net> for free catalog & $5 per CD sale
>Legato Classic, Inc.
>http://www.legatoclassics.com
>
>
>
Wotan99
importantly changed the quality of the sound..first decreasing the volume
There are steel needles that "never" where out but it is a hard sound..the
regu.ar metal needles i have, really should be turned slightly for every (few)
playings, so you turn to an undulled surface...the needle has a very short life
Best
W99
DAVID A DI LUZIO
Ed Rosen <lyr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<6ssvuu$a...@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>...
I'm sure Mr. Tucker would have been embarrassed by such a deluded opinion.
It only makes me proud to be an American in knowing that all worthless
opinions must be treated with the same amount of respect. The result,
mediocrity!
Nobody, Nobody sang like that Neapolitan giant. Upon hearing that voice, I
can see the Bay of Naples and Capri!
Don Drewecki
The only person I met who heard Caruso was B. H. Haggin, who started
hearing him, and Toscanini and Farrar, at the Met back in 1914. Haggin
later wrote that the recordings did reproduce Caruso's voice pretty
accurately.
I asked Haggin in 1981 what he remembered about Toscanini, and he said,
"All I remember is that by the end of the second act [of Butterfly] I
felt that I was floating on air."
--
Don Drewecki
<dre...@rpi.edu>
Ed Rosen
<DAVO...@prodigy.net> writes:
>
>
>
>Ed Rosen <lyr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
><6ssvuu$a...@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>...
>>
>> To find
>> >someone
>> >> like Caruso, you would have to take Mario del Monaco, make his
voice
>> >sweeter
>> >> (less nasal), and give him the flexibility to sing lyric parts.
>>
>> In other words, you have just described Richard Tucker!!!
>
>
>
> I'm sure Mr. Tucker would have been embarrassed by such a deluded
opinion.
>It only makes me proud to be an American in knowing that all worthless
>opinions must be treated with the same amount of respect. The result,
>mediocrity!
And who, may I ask, are you to judge opinions as worthless? If that be
so, than yours is the most worthless of all!
Ed
donpaolo
Probably true that "nobody nobody sang like that Neapolitan giant". But,
to label Ed Rosen's opinion as "deluded" & "mediocrity" is pure rubbish on
your part.
You, as well as many of us have to yet learn what Mr. Rosen has forgotten
about operatic voices.
Shame on you!
DonP.
DAVID A DI LUZIO <DAVO...@prodigy.net> wrote in article
<01bdda13$dca6e1c0$854a9cd1@default>...
>
>
> Ed Rosen <lyr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
> <6ssvuu$a...@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>...
>
>
> I'm sure Mr. Tucker would have been embarrassed by such a deluded
opinion.
> It only makes me proud to be an American in knowing that all worthless
> opinions must be treated with the same amount of respect. The result,
> mediocrity!
>
DAVID A DI LUZIO
donpaolo <donp...@erols.com> wrote in article
<01bddc34$c43bb7a0$dd75accf@default>...
> David -
>
> Probably true that "nobody nobody sang like that Neapolitan giant". But,
> to label Ed Rosen's opinion as "deluded" & "mediocrity" is pure rubbish
on
> your part.
>
> You, as well as many of us have to yet learn what Mr. Rosen has forgotten
> about operatic voices.
>
> Shame on you!
I take your last statement as a supreme insult. I live in a family that
has been imbrued in Classical Music and Opera. I, at an early age, was
introduced to local opera singers. In all my life I have never heard of
such an outlandish comparison. It is sheer folly to even compare Gigli to
Caruso. Richard Tucker falls short in comparison to Pavarotti. In short ,
I suspect other covert motives in Mr. Rosen's cavalier assertions.
I do not wish to use Opera as a test of one's intellect. I choose to enjoy
the melding of plot, voice, drama and music that makes opera so
intoxicating to me. Notwithstanding, hearing the voice of Enrico Caruso
convinces me as well as many others that he is in a class by himself . His
voice cannot be compared to anyone else's!
"Adesso devi scusami, Io sono stanco, son umbilliato,and I want evryone
here to know , you'll get no trouble from Me...."
Frank Pentangeli
Michael Black
> It is sheer folly to even compare Gigli to Caruso. Richard Tucker falls short in
> comparison to Pavarotti. In short , I suspect other covert motives in Mr. Rosen's
> cavalier assertions.
Correct me if I am wrong, but did not Caruso's wife actually make the original
comparison between Tucker and Caruso? I think she'd be able best to make that
judgement.
With that stated, I don't really hear many similarities between the two singers.
Don't get me wrong, I love both Caruso and Tucker, however I tend to go for Caruso
more. But Caruso's voice sounds more baritonal than Tucker's. Tucker had a very
bright, piercing sound, where Caruso has more of that dark, lush sound.
At least, this is what I hear.
--
"Life is only fun when it is a challenge."
http://www.stairway.org/bjorling/
Bjoerling Rules!!!
Ed Rosen
>
> I take your last statement as a supreme insult. I live in a
family that
>has been imbrued in Classical Music and Opera. I, at an early age, was
>introduced to local opera singers. In all my life I have never heard
of
>such an outlandish comparison. It is sheer folly to even compare Gigli
to
>Caruso. Richard Tucker falls short in comparison to Pavarotti. In
short ,
>I suspect other covert motives in Mr. Rosen's cavalier assertions.
Frank Pentangeli
You, sir, are a pompous ass.
I have no covert motives, and my assertions are anything but cavalier.
It is certainly allowable to compare Gigli with Caruso. And for me,
Tucker was 10 times the artist that Pavarotti is, with a voice 5 times
bigger!
This is my opinion. I believe it to be the truth. Are your opinions
at all open to question?
I will say no more. We can leave it to others to agree with me, or
with you. I imagine most will probably ignore a post as stupid as
yours. Perhaps I should have done the same.
Ed
LuciaMim
>It is sheer folly to even compare Gigli to
>Caruso
Gigli hated the comparison, too. Early on, he said I don't want to be known as
the second Caruso, I want to be known asthe first Gigli "
I have never felt there was any similarity in the two voices. Apparently,
after Caruso's death, everyone was looking for a replacement. That Gigli had a
wonderful voice is one thing to compare his with Caruso's is silly. Just as it
was silly for some critics to say that Caruso was no de Reszke!
Best wishes
Mimi
drak...@aol.com
vocal technique. Caruso's voice was much bigger, more powerful, and
baritonal at least from his late thirties. Caruso sang many dramatic parts
such as Samson and Eleazar. Gigli was a pure lyric tenor who excelled in the
lighter roles. Although he took on the sprinto parts, his voice really
wasn't suited to heavier roles. Their recordings have left us many exquisite
examples of singing.
In article <199809101001...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
drak...@aol.com
productions.
Oh, I'm sorry, I meant "spinto."
In article <6t8i5l$m5f$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
Commspkmn
lighter roles. Although he took on the sprinto parts, his voice really
wasn't suited to heavier roles.>>
I have to respectfully disagree. Gigli may not have had the baritonal sound of
Caruso, but many of his performances of the spinto repertoire are superb. His
recordings of Cav and Pag are both first-class. His recording of Chenier is
one of the best. There is a 1951 Rio de Janeiro performance of Forza (excerpts
available on the Legato Classics SRO label) that shows Gigli, at age 61, to be
a first-class Don Alvaro. Tosca, Gioconda...I could go on and on. We could
use more tenors today as unsuited to the spinto repertoire as Gigli was.
Ken Meltzer
SDRodrian
>From: drak...@aol.com
>Date: 9/10/98 5:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <6t8i5l$m5f$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>Caruso and Gigli both had beautiful Italianate voices and employed similar
>vocal technique. Caruso's voice was much bigger, more powerful, and
>baritonal at least from his late thirties. Caruso sang many dramatic parts
>lighter roles.
Yes, Caruso was Beethoven/Bach to Gigli's
Mozart. But 'sound' aside (and I am one of those
who can hear the fact that Caruso's sound is and
remains the most beautiful ever recorded*), but
'sound' aside... it is probable that the thing
about Caruso that will be most difficult to match
--let alone surpass-- is his astonishing emotional
embodiment of the mood of 'a' given piece of
music: The feeling he put into his every phrase
is nothing short of miraculous.
... Hearing each of his phrases capture the exact
mood of that musical instant I can but echo (and
I forget who said it)... "If God spoke, that's
what He would undoubtedly sound like--"
S D Rodrian
* Some hard-of-hearing folks have been known
to protest that it's impossible to really hear
the 'beauty' of Caruso's voice through the
limitations (and noise) of his recordings!!!!!!!!!!
I always ask these people NOT to listen to
the noise, but to listen to the VOICE... with
various 'degrees' of success for my efforts.
SDRodrian
>You, sir, are a pompous ass.
>
I'm curious... has anybody "out there"
ever ridden a nonpompous ass?
S D Rodrian
SDRodrian
>From: "Jerel Zoltick" <je...@ln.nimh.nih.gov>
>Date: 9/6/98 6:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <6svdna$7s0$1...@winter.news.erols.com>
>
>I thought Caruso's daughter said that about Bjoerling...
>it is quoted in one Bjoerling's biographies...
>jerel
>
I heard that Caruso's valet also said that about
Giuseppi di Capistrani (a tenor wanna-be
who hired him after Caruso's death). And
I believe this is also quoted in Giuseppi's
autobiography... which was written for him
after his death by a fellow to whom Giuseppi
left a legacy on the condition that he write
the old boy's postmortem autobiography for him--
S D Rodrian
Charles Bollman
Notwithstanding that you are entitled to your opinions this one is absurd.
--
"The sky is falling"!----Chicken Little
Ed Rosen wrote >
And for me Tucker was 10 times the artist that Pavarotti is, with a voice
5 times
>bigger!
drak...@aol.com
his voice because those who heard him live thought so. I don't think we get
the full impact of his high notes, however, which were too powerful for the
recording equipment of that time. Caruso had to back away from the horn when
singing the high notes.
Gorgeous vocal quality. Rock solid technique. Wonderful expressiveness. I
believe Caruso's higher range was tighter than that of Gigli. Caruso had
problems with nodes on his vocal cords. Gigli had an unusually relaxed and
free quality throughout his range. But Caruso was putting out a lot more
sound.
Whether one likes to hear Gigli sing spinto parts and the mature Caruso sing
parts like Nemorino is a matter of taste. Gigli was a fabulous singer, but I
prefer a heavier voice in parts like Radames, Canio, and Don Alvaro. I don't
think Caruso sounded appropriate in lyric parts after his first ten years or
so of singing. His sound at age 40 was too mature for Nemorino, in my
opinion.
Howard Hood
In article <199809101523...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
donpaolo
drak...@aol.com wrote in article <6t99q9$o4g$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
Caruso had
> problems with nodes on his vocal cords.
>
> Howard Hood
Howard -
I was unaware of this; and I have read just about everything written about
the great man (or, so I thought).
Please elaborate.
Thanks,
DonP.
TomKauf2
>I take your last statement as a supreme insult. I live in a family that has
been imbrued in Classical Music and Opera. I, at an early age, was introduced
to local opera singers. In all my life I have never heard of such an outlandish
comparison. It is sheer folly to even compare Gigli to Caruso. Richard Tucker
falls short in comparison to Pavarotti. In short , I suspect other covert
motives in Mr. Rosen's cavalier assertions.
I happen to be a great fan of both Tucker and Pavarotti, and a bigger fan of
Gigli's than of Caruso's. But I find styraight comparisons of any two tenors
who had different size voices, who specialized in different repertorys (even
though there could be some overlap) absolutely futile. If I had to choose
between either caruso or Gigli, or for that matter Tucker or Pavarotti as
Radames, Eléazar, Gabriele Adorno or Alvaro, the choice is an easy one--Caruso
and Tucker.No hesitation whatsoever. By the same token if I were to choose
among these four tenors as Don Sebastiano--it's just as easy: Pavarotti first,
then Tucker. (Probably based on the Pav's wonderful "Deserto in terra"--and my
preference for a smaller and brighter voice than Caruso or Tucker for bel
canto) And if I had the opportunity of choosing between a note complete
Juive, Don Sebastiano,, Simon Boccanegra, Aida or Forza--the choice is just as
easy (in the order listed)
Cheers
Tom
Mike Richter
>
> <<Gigli was a pure lyric tenor who excelled in the
Agreed on all counts - yet, undeniably, Caruso's was the heavier
instrument and more fitting for those roles than Gigli's. But, again,
you are correct that we could use a tenor who, however lyric, could sing
the spinto roles as well as he did at any age.
Mike
--
mric...@mindspring.com
http://mrichter.simplenet.com
CD-R http://resource.simplenet.com
Mike Richter
Mike
drak...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Caruso and Gigli both had beautiful Italianate voices and employed similar
> vocal technique. Caruso's voice was much bigger, more powerful, and
> baritonal at least from his late thirties. Caruso sang many dramatic parts
> such as Samson and Eleazar. Gigli was a pure lyric tenor who excelled in the
> lighter roles. Although he took on the sprinto parts, his voice really
> wasn't suited to heavier roles. Their recordings have left us many exquisite
> examples of singing.
>
--
LuciaMim
>>I thought Caruso's daughter said that about Bjoerling...
>>it is quoted in one Bjoerling's biographies...
>>jere
Caruso's daughter was just a toddler at the most, when Caruso died. It was
Dorothy Caruso in her second biography of Caruso who made that comment.
Caruso stopped singing when Gloria was about a year old, then they went back to
Italy. He died about a year later. I might be off by a year, but I believe
the daughter would only have been 3 years old at the time of his death!
Regards,
Mimi
LuciaMim
I agree with you 100%. Tucker liked to think of himself as the second Caruso.
Gigli refused to be called the new Caruso, and cited his voice and repertoire,
claiming "I want to be known as the first GIGLI!" Therefore Pavarotti COULD be
compared with Gigli. Frankly, I still think Gigli the better singer (of the
two) and was raised in a family that felt the same way. But that's my opinion!
Regards,
Mimi
LuciaMim
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Gigli v. Caruso
>From: drak...@aol.com
>Date: Thu, Sep 10, 1998 15:37 EDT
>Message-id: <6t99q9$o4g$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Gigli v. Caruso
>From: drak...@aol.com
>Date: Thu, Sep 10, 1998 15:37 EDT
>Message-id: <6t99q9$o4g$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
>
><HTML><PRE>Subject: Re: Gigli v. Caruso
>From: drak...@aol.com
>Date: Thu, Sep 10, 1998 15:37 EDT
>Message-id: <6t99q9$o4g$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
>
> But Caruso was putting out a lot more
>sound.
He was also "putting out a lot more singing" according to Giulio Gatti-Casazza.
Gatti was astonished at how many performances per week Caruso was scheduled
for, when Gatti arrived on the scene. This may have contributed to any "vocal
problems" he may have had.
Regards
Mimi
Ed Rosen
My post, which I believe started this, merely said that Gigli could be
compared to Caruso. It didn't say he was better- or not as good- for
that matter.
This brought a blistering attack froma gentlemen whose name I can't
recall. I believe it was Frank something.
He was incensed, saying it was nonsense and folly to compare the two,
as Caruso was supreme.
What I didn't say was that Gigli was the better of the two. I said it
was certainly acceptable, IMO, to compare the two, just as it was
acceptable to compare Tucker with Pavarotti. This gentleman again
became outraged that the two were even mentioned in the same breath.
My own taste- much as I realize how great Caruso was, I prefer
listening to Gigli, and he is the tenor I listen to more than any
other, when playing cassettes in my car, or just relaxing at home. I
find his voice the most purely beatuiful tenor voice of the century,
and it remained that way for 40 years of more. I find his singing to
be soothing, almost caressing.
Caruso I find exciting and thrilling, but I prefer to be soothed after
a long day.
Best,
Ed
Ed Rosen<legat...@earthlink.net> for free catalog & $5 per CD sale
Legato Classics, Inc.
http://www.legatoclassics.com
Ed Rosen
(LuciaMim) writes:
>
>Tom Kaufman wrote:
>
>
>>I happen to be a great fan of both Tucker and Pavarotti, and a bigger
fan of
>>Gigli's than of Caruso's. But I find styraight comparisons of any two
tenors
>>who had different size voices, who specialized in different
repertorys (even
>>though there could be some overlap) absolutely futile. If I had to c
>
I assure you, Mimi, that Tucker did not like to think of himself as a
second Caruso, as you assert. He was called the American Caruso by
others, and that is all their is to that story.
In his private record collection he had tones of Caruso, and Gigli, and
Schmidt, and Tauber, to name a few. He was very iterested in the great
tenors of the past, and we listened to them together often.
Above his study was a large picture of Lauri-Volpi, incsribed to
Tucker as follows: (Una voce Carusiano, etc.) If this assesment is
good enough for Lauri-Volpi, it's good enough for me.
Best,
Ed
Ed Rosen<legat...@earthlink.net>
drak...@aol.com
relaxed. I like them equally, just as I like Corelli, Bergonzi, Tucker,
Melchior, Kraus, and many other singers. To me they are different flavors
which through their different qualities provide varied pleasures.
In article <6tb6is$a...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
lyr...@ix.netcom.com(Ed Rosen) wrote:
>
> My post, which I believe started this, merely said that Gigli could be
> compared to Caruso. It didn't say he was better- or not as good- for
> that matter.
>
> This brought a blistering attack froma gentlemen whose name I can't
> recall. I believe it was Frank something.
>
> He was incensed, saying it was nonsense and folly to compare the two,
> as Caruso was supreme.
>
> What I didn't say was that Gigli was the better of the two. I said it
> was certainly acceptable, IMO, to compare the two, just as it was
> acceptable to compare Tucker with Pavarotti. This gentleman again
> became outraged that the two were even mentioned in the same breath.
>
> My own taste- much as I realize how great Caruso was, I prefer
> listening to Gigli, and he is the tenor I listen to more than any
> other, when playing cassettes in my car, or just relaxing at home. I
> find his voice the most purely beatuiful tenor voice of the century,
> and it remained that way for 40 years of more. I find his singing to
> be soothing, almost caressing.
>
> Caruso I find exciting and thrilling, but I prefer to be soothed after
> a long day.
>
> Best,
> Ed
> Ed Rosen<legat...@earthlink.net> for free catalog & $5 per CD sale
> Legato Classics, Inc.
> http://www.legatoclassics.com
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Peter Conway
I prefer, and it is of course purely a matter of personal taste, the voice
of Beniamino Gigli to that of Enrico Caruso. One has to bear in mind that
the technical quality of the recordings of Gigli are superior to that of
Caruso but even bearing this in mind my choice stands.
In fact I prefer Jussi Bjorling in general to either Tenor and the voice
of Giuseppe di Stefano is at least the equal of Gigli when considering the
Italian Tenors.
Pete.
DAVID A DI LUZIO
> In fact I prefer Jussi Bjorling in general to either Tenor and the voice
> of Giuseppe di Stefano is at least the equal of Gigli when considering
the
> Italian Tenors.
I love DiStefano as much as anyone in this Newsgroup but must begrudgingly
give the nod to Beniamino Gigli. His voice was more flexible and versatile.
His Andrea Chernier finally forced me to admit this fact. I always argued
for DiStefano with my older brothers but now I finally have seen that
Gigli's voice was at least as beautiful as that of DiStefano's not to
mention more versatile and more durable.
I repeat that Caruso was the most magnificent and most beautiful voice
that I have ever heard!
DAVID A DI LUZIO
>
> I will say no more. We can leave it to others to agree with me, or
> with you. I imagine most will probably ignore a post as stupid as
> yours. Perhaps I should have done the same.
> Ed
As a professor of French and Italian and one who lectures on opera, I
find it the height of arrogance that certain individuals are held up as
experts as if the opinions of others need not be expressed: "you should
know what Mr. Rosen has forgotten," "you sir are a pompous ass." As to the
former claim, I can confidently assert the same thing but to what end. Not
everyone is at the same exalted level but all can express a viewpoint
provided it is based on knowledge and experience and is articulated
intelligibly. As for the latter "argumentum ad hominem," well, suffice it
to say it is both discourteous and irrelevant in the extreme.
Mr. Rosen extols the virtues of Richard Tucker. He correctly points out
that the voice qua voice was impressive in both its size and brilliant top.
Unfortunately however, his flaws are as egregious as the virtues are
impressive. First, the instrument lacks the sweetness, mellowness and bel
canto qualities of a tenor essaying lyrical parts. I find it excessively
bright and even nasal. That is perhaps a matter of personal taste. What
cannot be forgiven however is the extreme lacrymosity so characteristic of
this tenor that would have embarrassed even Gigli, the over-emoting and
(as Michael Scott correctly remarks in his massive Record of Singing) his
mannered pronunciation of Italian. Stylistically, this pseudo-veristic
exaggeration severely compromises his effectiveness in Verdi parts to say
nothing of Bellini and Donizetti. Even in Puccini and Giordano, this
approach can offend. Caruso's great example, besides the intrinsic
splendor of the voice per se, was the perfect marriage of a more forceful
style with the bel canto technique upon which his singing was founded. And
here, knowledge of the libretto and, more specifically, the words
themselves is essential. Caruso and even the less bel canto Aureliano
Pertile realized that the success of an interpretation depended upon
"correct" declamation and singing within a tradition. Tucker was outside
the Italian and French tradition. His excessive emotionalism, I believe,
derived from an attempt to "outItalian" the Italians. Now, this does not
mean that non-Italians and, more specifically, Americans are automatically
disqualified in the operatic sweepstakes. Nevertheless, it must be
admitted that Italians enjoy an advantage when singing Italian opera as do
Germans when singing in German. It is therefore indispensable that lovers
of opera be mindful of the text when listening to different voices. This
is why Placido Domingo can be accused of very generic performances. Here,
the language isn't so much the problem (obviously) as a certain
indifference to text and characterization. Lest it seem that all
Anglophonic singers are guilty, we can point to the supreme artistry of Jon
Vickers whose concentration on the text informs every one of his operatic
impersonations.
To return to the case of Tucker, in my view, he offers neither the
requisite Italianate quality so necessary to many of his roles nor that
special textual specificity so apparent in the work of Vickers and even in
our American baritones Lawrence Tibbett and Leonard Warren. Yes, Tucker
should be appreciated for his many gifts. But, gentlemen, I put it to you
that it is dangerous to compare him to Mario del Monaco (an unjustly
maligned tenor) and even Pavorotti. They, whatever their shortcomings,
sing within a tradition they know and understand intimately. To ignore
these other facets that make opera the type of art form it is constitutes a
failure to appreciate all that goes into making a vocal artist the unique
creature he is.
Sincerely,
Dr. Joseph A. DiLuzio
solovoice
I do know how to spell "perceive" and I inadvertently left my name
off.
John
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
-- Benjamin Franklin
solovoice
<DAVO...@prodigy.net> wrote:
So what you're saying is that he was a human being - imperfect as most
of us are. I suspect that a singer who note perfect, technically
perfect, stylistically correct would be a very dull singer indeed.
Caruso and even the less bel canto Aureliano
>Pertile realized that the success of an interpretation depended upon
>"correct" declamation and singing within a tradition.
I was listening to Caruso sing arias from Rossini's Petite Solenelle
Messe (sp?) which I hope to sing with a local choral society in the
spring. If were to sing these pieces as Caruso sang them: heavy
voiced, excessive portamento, declarative -- I would be laughted off
the stage. Caruso can do it because is Caruso and because what we
percieve as "correct" changes with the era which in we live.
Tucker was outside
>the Italian and French tradition. His excessive emotionalism, I believe,
>derived from an attempt to "outItalian" the Italians.
Who's to say? We don't have Puccini, Verdi, Gounod, here to tell us.
It can only be speculated from written accounts. Do you believe
everything you read?
Now, this does not
>mean that non-Italians and, more specifically, Americans are automatically
>disqualified in the operatic sweepstakes. Nevertheless, it must be
>admitted that Italians enjoy an advantage when singing Italian opera as do
>Germans when singing in German. It is therefore indispensable that lovers
>of opera be mindful of the text when listening to different voices. This
>is why Placido Domingo can be accused of very generic performances. Here,
>the language isn't so much the problem (obviously) as a certain
>indifference to text and characterization. Lest it seem that all
>Anglophonic singers are guilty, we can point to the supreme artistry of Jon
>Vickers whose concentration on the text informs every one of his operatic
>impersonations.
> To return to the case of Tucker, in my view, he offers neither the
>requisite Italianate quality so necessary to many of his roles nor that
>special textual specificity so apparent in the work of Vickers and even in
>our American baritones Lawrence Tibbett and Leonard Warren. Yes, Tucker
>should be appreciated for his many gifts. But, gentlemen, I put it to you
>that it is dangerous to compare him to Mario del Monaco (an unjustly
>maligned tenor) and even Pavorotti. They, whatever their shortcomings,
>sing within a tradition they know and understand intimately. To ignore
>these other facets that make opera the type of art form it is constitutes a
>failure to appreciate all that goes into making a vocal artist the unique
>creature he is.
What a successful failure Mr. Tucker was!
> Sincerely,
> Dr. Joseph A. DiLuzio
>
>
"They that can give up essential liberty
Ed Rosen
Tucker
>should be appreciated for his many gifts. But, gentlemen, I put it to
you
>that it is dangerous to compare him to Mario del Monaco (an unjustly
>maligned tenor) and even Pavorotti. They, whatever their
shortcomings,
>sing within a tradition they know and understand intimately. To
ignore
>these other facets that make opera the type of art form it is
constitutes a
>failure to appreciate all that goes into making a vocal artist the
unique
>creature he is.
> Dr. Joseph A.
DiLuzio
You may have some valid points in general, but not concerning Tucker,
IMO. To say Vickers, who I much admired, had to Italian style and
Tucker did not is absurd, again, IMO.
Del Monaco has not been so maligned. He was magnificent in every way,
and he said that Tucker was the greatest tenor he had ever heard, in a
letter to Sara Tucker after Richard's death. So I would assume that he
knew less Dr. DiLuzio.
And it wasn't me who said that other's don't know as much opera as I
have forgotten. You are getting your posts mixed up, sir.
As for pompous ass- yes, I did say that one, and I don't take it back.
Gigli's sobbing was even more frequent than Tucker's. The difference,
as Charlie Handelman has always pointed, is that Gigli is Italian, and
Tucker is Jewish, and their sobs are both a bit ethnic. Compare both
tenor's great recording of the soaring "Pazzo son" from Manon Lescaut.
Gigli outsobs Tucker at least 2-1, and improvises at the end by
answering the captain "ebben, ebben", then "grazie capitano". This is
great. I love this. And as far as I know, there was no great outcry
about Gigli doing this. Imagine if Tucker had done this, or something
like this. He would have been crucified. Double standards do exist!
Tucker loved Gigli. Gigli was his favorite tenor. And Gigli loved
Tucker, also, according to his daughter Rina. Tucker emulated him,
along with, of course, Caruso. The last time he sang Pagliacci,
shortly before his death, Tucker added the sobbed and shouted "Infamia"
during the postlude to the Vesti la giubba. And he did it with just as
much Italianate passion and feeling as Gigli.
Best,
Ed
GRNDPADAVE
>>should be appreciated for his many gifts. But, gentlemen, I put it to
>you
>>that it is dangerous to compare him to Mario del Monaco (an unjustly
>>maligned tenor) and even Pavorotti. They, whatever their
>shortcomings,
>>sing within a tradition they know and understand intimately. To
>ignore
>>these other facets that make opera the type of art form it is
>constitutes a
>>failure to appreciate all that goes into making a vocal artist the
>unique
>>creature he is.
>> Sincerely,
>> Dr. Joseph A.
>DiLuzio
Tradition can be good a thing. Mahler thought it could also be "schlamperai".
-
One of the great conveyors of Italian musical tradition in the exalted sense of
the term was Maestro Arturo Toscanini. At age 19 (in 1886) his first
professional experience as a conductor was in Brazil where he made an impromptu
appearance to save the day directing AIDA.
-
Sixty years later, Toscanini performed his last AIDA. He chose for the role of
Radames a young American tenor named Richard Tucker.
-
The recording is available. Listen to it. Every critic I have read points to
the exemplary musicianship of Tucker in this recording.
-
Many opera lovers would declare another non-Italian, Jussi Bjoerling, as
Caruso's greatest successor. Bjoerling's Italian diction was much inferior to
Tucker's. But the voice and musicianship are exemplary.
-
Del Monaco, great as his Otello p[erformances were, often disregarded Verdi's
markings -- especially in AIDA. The dolce marking in the Act III duet on the
line "di gloria primi allori" is one that is beautifully observed by Tucker,
Vickers, Domingo -- and, above all, Bjoerling.
-
There used to be an ad that announced "you don't have to be Jewish to love
Levi's bread". I think it is even truer that a singer need not be Italian to
triumph in Italian opera.
-
I acknowledge that excessive sobbing disfigures much operatic singing. It
always sounds phony to me, too. Tucker, it seems, became somewhat addicted to
this only after his first Italian tour. His recordings up to 1950 are more
dignified in this respect. Towards the end of his career he regained his
earlier composure. His two recordings of LA FORZA DEL DESTINO reflect this.
-
Pavarotti is another fine musician. He has been most successful in using his
lyric voice with great elegance. He is one of the great portrayers of the Duke
of Mantua -- a distinction he shares with Tucker. Vickers, Gigli and Del
Monaco were not noted for their performances of this role. Yet Tucker could
sing it and the more stentorian role of Canio -- quite well and quite late in
his career. Oddly enough these were also two of Caruso's signature roles.
-
The traditions shared by Tucker and Caruso extend beyond ethnic boundaries.
They both possessed superlative voices, produced ringing sounds, and at their
frequent best served well the music of the great Italian composers.
==G/P Dave
Placido 21
nuts!!You exzpress your "opinion" in a very nasty way. CH
Charlie, baritono somewhat supremo,and no.1 fan of the great Diana Soviero..so
there!
Placido 21
people express themselves in such a blatant and dismissive manner....we want to
ignore them...but we cannot help responding..and this is a natural thing....the
dude knows from niente.....He should talk to the three tenors and half the
civilized world about the great Tucker.,..
Placido 21
individuals like Ed call some of these CRETINI...CH
Placido 21
Placido 21
caruso,Gigli,etc." Yes.he had TONES (similar to those of the greats)..of course
unique..but as great as any tenor who ever walked the face of the earth...I saw
him over 60 times..The man was a phenomenon of nature...always gave 400% of
himself...to quote Regina Resnik(who knows slightly more than Mr.Pentangeli aka
Michael V.Gazzo..or is it CAZZO).."He left his blood all over the stage."
Tucker did have his mannerisms...like a guy named Gigli....but so what......if
we want to have purity ...we can listen to the Dichterliebe. God Bless the
memory of Richard Tucker@
Placido 21
more than the "credentials" of any of the great operas experts who feel the
opposite. George Jellinek is not exactly chopped liver and there are many
individuals on this list (Michael Black,Tom Kaufman, Mike Richterand Ed Rosen)
who
have devoted a large portion oftheir lives to the study of the vocal art and
who who have different,but nevertheless most respected opinions on Tucker's
virtues...and I could self-promote (sorry,Ken lane) and say that I too am a
language teacher and well-respected collector of historical and hysterical
recordings.. Let us agree to disahgrre without sounding like a pompous
burrito.CH
Placido 21
Steane,Rasponi, or Stefan Zucker(without having a high R# in alt0.....
Yes, Tucker did his "thing" like Gigli,Corelli,Lazaro,Fleta, and any of the
"mannered" tenors,if you want to use the term. he was ot a "square dude" in the
sense that he gave "generic" performances.So what if he let it hang out a la
Bill and Monica..he was a fabulous man..and those who do not pay attention to
sections of his repertory such as the "Credi al destino' in act two Chenier,
the beautiful and elegant Mill scene from Samson et delilah )(and he was a
moving actor in that onstage),his totally magnificent and music rendition of
"Sound an Alarm," his charming Ferrando in Cosi....and much much more..are
missing out on what he was.
I am glad this is being hashed over so close to his birthday )(Aug.28) and I
think many more younmger opera lovers wil lbegin to develop more of an
appreciation for him..and if they do not like what they hear.that is their
opinion...fine...but they can be nice abiut it.CH