Operas with roles for boys
jcdohio
the American Choral Directors' Association, to generate as complete a list
as possible of all operas that include singing roles for boys, either as
solos or as part of an ensemble. I am looking for opera name, composer, and
role or part name as appropriate.
I would greatly appreciate any information you would have on this subject,
including any easily searchable reference material.
Thank you!
J. Dunphy
Opvidfan
Britten
Turn Of The Screw, character Miles
Whoops! Amahl in Menotti's Amahl And The Night Visitors.
Also:
Britten's; Midsummer Night's Dream Puck, speaking part
Britten's: Also the sons of Noye in Noye's Fludde By Britten are all children
as are the wives, gossips and animals.
There is a boy's role in Billy Budd, the cabin boy.
There is the shepherd in Tosca and Fedora, the chidren in Carmen and Boheme
(one boy solo)
Bastien and Bastienne by Mozart are often sung by boys, the Vienna Boys Chior
does it.
The three genie in Magic Flute.
Etc, Lots of stuff.
Ray
Michael Dauphinais
for a couple of weeks now.
Can't remember composer's name, but at one time someone wrote a setting of
Dr. Seuss' "Green Eggs and Ham" with a boy soprano (in the role of Sam, I
believe).
Michael Dauphinais
Opvidfan wrote in message
tresbirri
<20011204222628...@mb-mb.aol.com>:
>Britten
>
>Turn Of The Screw, character Miles
>
>Whoops! Amahl in Menotti's Amahl And The Night Visitors.
>There is the shepherd in Tosca and Fedora, the chidren in Carmen and Boheme
>(one boy solo)
>The three genie in Magic Flute.
A very important and difficult role: Yniold in Pelleas et Melisande.
Although I have never heard it from a boy (I think, it must be terrible),
the Waldvogel in Siegfried is actually "Knabenstimme".
Gherardino in Gianni Schicchi.
Two apparizioni in Macbeth.
There are many more, I will drink another coffee! :-)
tresbirri
John Lynch
jcdohio wrote:
Feodor in Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov.
Childrens choruses in Britten's Midsummer Night's Dream and Boito's
Mefistofele.
JRL
hennie
orphee
>
>Feodor in Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov.
Is listed in the score as mezzosoprano!!!!!!!!
What I want to add is
the solo boy in Wilhelm Kienzl's DER EVANGELIMANN and
the boy of Marie in Alban Berg's WOZZECK.
Regards,
Orphee
Stefano Torelli
> >(one boy solo)
>
> Although I have never heard it from a boy (I think, it must be terrible),
> the Waldvogel in Siegfried is actually "Knabenstimme".
>
The strongest boy voice ever could do it: Fliegner (First soprano of Toelzer
Knabenchor at the end of the Eighties)
--
Posted from [213.140.14.135]
via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Stefano Torelli
news:9ul3mh$2im$1...@ctb-nnrp1.saix.net...
> Was Oscar (Edgar?) in Ballo in Maschera a boy?
Yes he was, but the role is really too difficult and high for a boy.
I would rather say Cherubino, after all he was a boy and I think a good
soloist, a boy able to sing a Mozart MAss or Requiem should not find it
impossible.
But as far as I know nobody dared yet to give this opportunity to a boy.
Stefano Torelli
Stefano Torelli
news:u0r2oo6...@corp.supernews.com...
In addition to several answers you received already, I woud inform that Mozart
wrote a very nice opera in Latin for school boys: Apollon & Jacinthus.
All the roles were originaly performed by boys (12-17 years old), the music is
wanderful and I own the Cds of Toelzer Knabenchor where their boy soloists are
able to performe the score in a very interesting although not perfect way.
Frabjous Day
sing, just says "hop, hop" in the final scene, though since pitch is
indicated you can probably make a case for him singing. (If you want to
argue about this point, argue with AGMA or Equity, which has strict rules
about such matters.) Madama Butterfly's kid doesn't utter a peep.
THE CUNNING LITTLE VIXEN has a lot of children's roles (all those animals).
Janek in JENUFA is a boy role, though sopranos usually sing it. Janacek's
OSUD (or "Fate" or "Destiny," depending on how you translate it) has a boy
role, though a very brief one.
Many Menotti operas call for boys' voices. So do those by Britten.
For non-singing boys, Norma has a couple, and so does Medea, though hers
aren't around too long.
"hennie" <henn...@telkomsa.net> wrote in message
news:9ul3mh$2im$1...@ctb-nnrp1.saix.net...
orphee
>
>Was Oscar (Edgar?) in Ballo in Maschera a boy?
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!
Orphee
Matthew B. Tepper
news:3C0E045F...@worldnet.att.net:
> Childrens choruses in Britten's Midsummer Night's Dream and Boito's
> Mefistofele.
There's also one in an even more famous opera: _Carmen_!
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
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Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Foot-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
tresbirri
>the solo boy in Wilhelm Kienzl's DER EVANGELIMANN and
>the boy of Marie in Alban Berg's WOZZECK.
I do not know your Evangelimann, but of course the child in Wozzeck. I
can not believe I did not think of this!
It is surprising, to think about it, there are very few genuine roles for
children.
The large roles in standard repertoire, it seems, are Yniold and Miles.
The small roles include Gherardino and the Wozzeck child. (I always think,
it is sad, that this child has no name.) These children play roles through
the opera, but sing very little.
Other roles are in works specially for children: Let's Make an Opera,
Amahl and the Night Visitors, Pollicino, several others.
The Waldvogel is an example of written for a child but usually (always?)
sung by a soprano.
There are other roles which we give to children, although, it is not said
from the composer, it must be a child. Tosca shepherd, three boys in
Zauberfloete.
Many roles for children who do not sing, who may speak or be silent, but
have a character to play. (in Billy Budd or Peter Grimes, for example)
Many, many examples of children's chorus. Sometimes, as in Boheme, one
child will have a solo line.
But it surprises me, that we do not think of more examples of larger roles
for children. Are there really so few? (I do not know Albert Herring well,
is there not a child who sings in this opera?)
tresbirri
orphee
says...
>
>The question was for "singing" roles for boys. The kid in WOZZECK doesn't
>sing, just says "hop, hop" in the final scene, though since pitch is
>indicated you can probably make a case for him singing.
No it has to be sung. It is notated as melody as part of the score!!!
>THE CUNNING LITTLE VIXEN has a lot of children's roles (all those animals).
Please, what do they sing??!!
>Janek in JENUFA is a boy role, though sopranos usually sing it.
Yes like Haensel, Oscar, Octavian...... was never intended for a child to sing!
>Many Menotti operas call for boys' voices.
Which Menotti operas have singing children besides of 'Amahl' and the
'Globolinks'?
>So do those by Britten.
Which Britten operas have singing children besides the children's
opera 'let's make an opera' and 'turn of the screw'?
Orphee
Roland Kayser
> >So do those by Britten.
>
> Which Britten operas have singing children besides the children's
> opera 'let's make an opera' and 'turn of the screw'?
Maybe we can count the Church Parables?
The voice of the spirit in "Curlew River".
The two Entertainers in "The Burning Fiery Furnace".
Distant voices in "The Prodigal Son".
And also:
The boy choir in the first act of "Turandot".
The shepard in "Tannhäuser" which is often sung by a woman.
(
--
Roland Kayser
Karen Mercedes
Benjamin Britten and Gian Carlo Menotti wrote several operas intended to
be sung by boys (or children). Take a look at their repertoire lists and
you'll find them.
Karen Mercedes
http://www.radix.net/~dalila/index.html
***************************************
Verdi and Wagner delighted the crowds
With their highly original sound.
The pianos they played are still working,
But they're both six feet underground.
- Michael Palin
Hans Christian Hoff
The part of Bastien in Mozarts's "Bastien und Bastienne"
The shepherd in Wagner's "Tannhaüser"
The three genii in "The Magic Flute"
The boys teasing Parpignol in the second act of "La Boheme"
The boys choir in the opening scene of "Carmen"
And undoubtedly a lot of others
Regards
Hans
orphee
>I do not know your Evangelimann,
Wilhelm Kienzl was an Austrian composer, he died in 1941. He studied with
Edward Hanslick and was an assistent to Richard Wagner in Bayreuth.
He conducted in Hamburg and Munich and wrote seven operas, DER EVANGELIMANN and
DER KUHREIGEN are the most well known.
His music is very influenced by Richard Wagner, so you need Wagner singers.
DER EVANGELIMANN is an opera about two brothers who loves the same girl.
EVANGELIMANN was a big success when it was first performed in 1894.
In the 1960ies and 1970ies it was very often done with big success in German
speaking countries.
Famous tenors like Schock, Wunderlich, Gedda have recorded the famous
aria ' Selig sind, die Verfolgung leiden'.
There is a complete recording at EMI with Siegfried Jerusalem and Helen Donath.
All the best,
Orphee
orphee
>
>orphee <orph...@hotmail.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
>9ulfv...@drn.newsguy.com...
>
>> >So do those by Britten.
>>
>> Which Britten operas have singing children besides the children's
>> opera 'let's make an opera' and 'turn of the screw'?
>
>Maybe we can count the Church Parables?
>The voice of the spirit in "Curlew River".
>The two Entertainers in "The Burning Fiery Furnace".
>Distant voices in "The Prodigal Son".
Dear Roland, the question was roles for boys in operas!
>And also:
>The boy choir in the first act of "Turandot".
There is a lot of children choruses in operas!
>The shepard in "Tannhäuser" which is often sung by a woman.
No, because in the score is written: ein junger Hirt: sopran.
All the best
Orphee
David Melnick
> There are other roles which we give to children, although, it is not said
> from the composer, it must be a child. Tosca shepherd,
The Gigli recording has a woman singing the shepherd in a
marvelous throwback to the "olden days."
> Many roles for children who do not sing, who may speak or be silent, but
> have a character to play.
Long ago, the child labor laws in California dictated that Trouble be played by
a larger child. Licia lugged the little giant around valiantly.
David
P.S. Arshak II has a boy soprano in the silent role of the prince, then singing
the role of the murdered prince's ghost, in a scene reminiscent of Shakespeare's
Richard III.
John Lynch
orphee wrote:
> In article <3C0E045F...@worldnet.att.net>, John says...
> >
> >Feodor in Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov.
>
> Is listed in the score as mezzosoprano!!!!!!!!
Yes, it is. But the Met has used a boy in that role for years. There was
a father and son poster showing the giant Martti Talvela as Boris and a
small young fellow who might have been Robert Sapolsky, Charlie Coleman,
Matthew Fish or Nicholas Frisch, all of whom sang the role between 1978
and 1998. The Boris excerpt with Boris Christoff on the video "The Art
of Singing" also has a boy Feodor.
JRL
Roland Kayser
> In article <9uljp1$mm9$00$1...@news.t-online.com>, "Roland says...
> >Maybe we can count the Church Parables?
> > [...]
> Dear Roland, the question was roles for boys in operas!
Are the Church Parables really to be excluded from "Opera"?
I know that they were designed "for church performance" and
that Britten was very firm on this.
But on the other hand I think about Wagner, who had to build
the Festspielhaus in Bayreuth, because he wanted his works
to be done in a different way from 19th century opera.
I think of his struggle for the proper subtitle (action
("Handlung"), stage-festival drama ("Bühnenfestpiel"),
Sacred Stage Festival Play ("Bühnenweihfestspiel")). But
now for years they are regarded as a special form of opera.
So I think Britten's Church Parables, different from other
operas as they are, can be seen as a kind of opera too.
> >The shepard in "Tannhäuser" which is often sung by a woman.
> No, because in the score is written: ein junger Hirt: sopran.
Oh, I didn't know that. I have heard the Haitink-recording (a woman)
and the Solti-recording (a boy), and the boy sounds so much better
that I thought he must be original.
(
--
Roland Kayser
Luca Logi
May I suggest Hans Krasa's "Brundibar", a very effective opera for
children. While written at first in Prague in 1939, it ended to be
rewritten for the Jewish children prisoners in Terezin concentration
camp and the few musical instruments available there. It was performed
more than fifty times in the Terezin barracks, as being the only form of
entertainment available there. Krasa was killed in Auschwitz's gas
chamber a short time after that.
-- -----------------------------------------------------
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: ll...@dada.it
Home page: http://www.angelfire.com/ar/archivarius
(musicologia pratica)
Matthew B. Tepper
news:9uljp1$mm9$00$1...@news.t-online.com:
But there are boys in _Tannhäuser_, aren't there?
orphee
>> The shepard in "Tannhäuser" which is often sung by a woman.
>
>But there are boys in _Tannhäuser_, aren't there?
Yes, you are right: four noble pages: soprano and alto!
Best regards,
Orphee
Roland Kayser
> "Roland Kayser" <Roland...@t-online.de> wrote:
> > orphee <orph...@hotmail.com> schrieb:
> > > [...]
> >> Which Britten operas have singing children besides the children's
> >> opera 'let's make an opera' and 'turn of the screw'?
> > [...]
> > The shepard in "Tannhäuser" which is often sung by a woman.
> But there are boys in _Tannhäuser_, aren't there?
Until this afternoon I would have agreed with you heartily.
Now, having been corrected about the shepard, I'm not so sure anymore.
Maybe Orphee can help us here.
(
--
Roland Kayser
GRNDPADAVE
There is a role for a boy in Act II of LA BOHEME and in Act III of TOSCA.
Three boys appear in DIE ZAUBERFLOETE (and were recorded in the lovely Solti
set).
There are many of them in BORIS GODUNOV. Oops -- those are boy-ars.
:>)) G/P Dave
Mark D Lew
<jcdu...@fuse.net> wrote:
> I am doing research on behalf of the Repertoire and Standards committee of
> the American Choral Directors' Association, to generate as complete a list
> as possible of all operas that include singing roles for boys, either as
> solos or as part of an ensemble.
I think of Yniold and Amahl as the two significant boy's roles in opera,
but I'm not familiar with either Wozzeck nor Turn of the Screw, so I'm not
sure how significant those roles are. Another excellent role intended for
a boy which no one else has mentioned yet is the title role of Lukas Foss's
Griffelkin, though it was played by a woman when I saw it. (Like Amahl,
Griffelkin was also originally written for television.)
I think these roles can be divided into three categories: (1) those that
really ought to be played by a child, (2) those that can be satisfactorily
played by either a child or a woman, and (3) those that really should not
be played by a child.
Even roles in the first category will sometimes be cast with a woman
(preferably a small one), because a boy simply isn't available. I think
that part of the reason there are so few boy's roles is because the
composer knows that a boy cannot be expected to be available. If you insist
on a child, and you write more than a handful of lines for him, you've made
your opera far harder to produce. If you leave the option open, then your
opera becomes practical, and you still might get a boy cast if one happens
to be available.
That leads to the second category, which is where I would put Fyodor in
Boris, the shepherd in Tosca, and the genii in Flute.
I am not convinced by the idea, which Orphee seems to be suggesting, that
if a character is listed as "soprano" or "mezzosoprano" in the score, it is
intended for an adult. A boy can be a soprano or a mezzosoprano.
I am also not convinced by Frabjous Day's suggestion that the animals in
Cunning Little Vixen are "children's roles". Yes, I suppose children could
play them, but children could play just about any roles if you want to make
a children's production out of it. I once saw Weber's Abu Hassan performed
by the Vienna Boys Choir, but that doesn't mean they are children's roles.
Of the roles mentioned on this thread, I would put Oscar and Cherubino in
the third category. I think casting either as a child would be a mistake,
even if you could find a child capable of singing the role. For many male
characters played by women, the cross-voice writing does imply a youthful
quality for the character, but is not meant to suggest that the character
is actually a child. There are plenty of other pants roles you could list
along here -- Octavian, Nicklausse, Siebel, etc. Jano in Jenufa perhaps
falls in this category as well, though it's been too long since I've seen
Jenufa, so I can't say for sure. (Yes, I know SFO is doing it right now,
but I doubt I'll make it.)
A few other roles I think would work well sung by a child if you could find
one good enough, but the music is hard enough that that seems unlikely.
Three that come to mind are the title roles in Hansel und Gretel and in
Ravel's L'Enfant et les Sortilèges.
> [...] I am looking for opera name, composer, and
> role or part name as appropriate.
I notice that in pursuing the discussion, we have left out the details on
many of these. Here's a recap. Some of these aren't familiar to me. If I
can't verify the role, I list it with question marks. (Some others which
were mentioned, which I am convinced should not be sung by children, I have
omitted altogether.)
WOZZECK; Alban Berg; Marie's son.
LET'S MAKE AN OPERA!; Benjamin Britten; Sam, Gay Brook, Sophie Brook, John
Crome, Tina Crome, and Hugh Crome (who play John, Bruce, Monica, Peter,
Mavis, and Ralph, respectively, in the play). (Gay, Sophie and Tina are
girls.)
BILLY BUDD; Benjamin Britten; four midshipmen.
THE TURN OF THE SCREW; Benjamin Britten; Miles. (His sister, Flora, is also
a child.)
NOYE'S FLUDDE; Benjamin Britten; Sem, Ham, and Jaffett. (Their wives are
played by girls.)
CURLEW RIVER; Benjamin Britten; Spirit of the Boy.
PELLÉAS ET MÉLISANDE; Claude Debussy; Yniold.
GRIFFELKIN; Lukas Foss; Griffelkin
OSUD; Leos^ Janác^ek; solo boy (??)
DER EVANGELIMANN; Wilhelm Kienzl; solo boy (??).
AMAHL AND THE NIGHT VISITORS; Gian-Carlo Menotti; Amahl (major role).
HELP! HELP! THE GLOBOLINKS; Gian-Carlo Menotti; (??)
DIE ZAUBERFLÖTE [The Magic Flute]; Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart; three Genii.
BORIS GODUNOV; Modest Mussorgsky; Fyodor
TOSCA; Giacomo Puccini; un Pastore [a Shepherd].
GIANNI SCHICCHI; Giacomo Puccini; Gherardino.
MACBETH; Giuseppe Verdi; two Apparizioni (??).
SIEGFRIED; Richard Wagner; Waldvogel [Forest Bird].
I don't know this "Pollicino" that Tresbirri mentions. Is that one of the
children in NORMA, perhaps? As far as I recall, they don't sing.
mdl
mauriz
"Mark D Lew" <mark...@earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net...
<long informative post snipped>
> I don't know this "Pollicino" that Tresbirri mentions. Is that one of
the
> children in NORMA, perhaps?
I like the idea of "Pollicino" as the name of Pollione's son, but
Tresbirri referred to Hans Werner Henze's POLLICINO, an opera for
children written in 1980 for - and on request of - the children of
Montepulciano, Tuscany, where Henze founded a festival for young
musicians ("Cantiere").
The Youth Music Festival in Deutschlandsberg near Graz, Styria
("Jugendmusikfest Deutschlandsberg"), which Henze founded in 1984, and
later became part of the Austrian avant-garde festival "Steirischer
Herbst", was intended as a platform for the co-operation of contemporary
composers and the local Musikschule. This summer they produced the world
first performance of an other opera for (and performed by) children:
Gerd Kühr's AGLAIA FEDERWEISS - quite a challenge for the young
musicians.
Kühr, born in Carinthia, Austria, studied composition with Henze in the
early 80's and was for a few years artistic director of the
"Jugendmusikfest Deutschlandsberg". He's currently teaching composition
at the music university Graz and the Graz Opera produced the first
performances of his operas STALLERHOF (text by Franz Xaver Kroetz) and
TOD UND TEUFEL (text by Peter Turrini).
Stephan
orphee
mark...@earthlink.net says...
Dear Mark,
the question was roles for children in operas. There is a difference in category
between roles in standard operas and operas which are written especially for
children.
>
>I think these roles can be divided into three categories: (1) those that
>really ought to be played by a child, (2) those that can be satisfactorily
>played by either a child or a woman, and (3) those that really should not
>be played by a child.
>That leads to the second category, which is where I would put Fyodor
believe me, this is not possible, it's written in the score by Mussorgski
for a mezzosoprano.
in
>Boris, the shepherd in Tosca, and the genii in Flute.
>
>I am not convinced by the idea, which Orphee seems to be suggesting, that
>if a character is listed as "soprano" or "mezzosoprano" in the score, it is
>intended for an adult. A boy can be a soprano or a mezzosoprano.
No, otherwise is especially written in the score ' Kindersopran or Kinderstimme
or treble or child's voice.
>I am also not convinced by Frabjous Day's suggestion that the animals in
>Cunning Little Vixen are "children's roles". Yes, I suppose children could
>play them, but children could play just about any roles if you want to make
>a children's production out of it.
But Janacek is heavy music, impossible for a child to survive!!
>A few other roles I think would work well sung by a child if you could find
>one good enough, but the music is hard enough that that seems unlikely.
>Three that come to mind are the title roles in Hansel und Gretel and in
>Ravel's L'Enfant et les Sortilèges.
Please see above!
>I don't know this "Pollicino" that Tresbirri mentions. Is that one of the
>children in NORMA, perhaps? As far as I recall, they don't sing.
Pollicino, we spoke two days ago about, is a childrens opera by Henze.
Maybe you thought it was little 'Pollione' (Pollionino?) :-))
Regards,
Orphee
mauriz
news:9unghe$26v$1...@news-vie-pub-p.1012internet.at...
> I like the idea of "Pollicino" as the name of Pollione's son
The little daughter of an American friend of mine finally told me what
Pollicino or Däumling in German means in English: it's Tom Thumb. (I had
to pay with the whole story, in English, since "this is much more fun!",
as she said with an innocent look in her eyes - I was left in no doubts
then, what she actually meant ...)
Stephan
jcdohio
I just want to thank all of you who have provided information, as well as
some interesting perspective and discussion, to the subject of my question.
It has been tremendously helpful.
One follow up question relates to a few operas that had been mentioned
earlier to me as having boys' parts but to date I cannot confirm this (it is
possible they are supers only): they are:
Borodin: Prince Igor
Offenbach: Tales of Hoffman
Saint-Saens: Samson et Delilah
Wagner: Die Meistersinger, Lohengrin, Rienzi
Strauss: Die Frau ohne Schatten
Flotow: Martha
Verdi: Ballo; Rigoletto
Dvorak: Rusalka
If anyone can confirm whether these contain singing roles for boys or
children that would be much appreciated. Thanks again!
JCD
"mauriz" <zepp...@telering.at> wrote in message
news:9uns6n$ii5$1...@news-vie-pub-p.1012internet.at...
Ian Michaud
but I have seen one production with a boy soprano. It was the same season the
company produced The Turn of the Screw so I guess they wanted to give their
Miles an extra gig before the horrors of puberty set in.
tresbirri
>One follow up question relates to a few operas that had been mentioned
>earlier to me as having boys' parts but to date I cannot confirm this (it is
>possible they are supers only): they are:
>Borodin: Prince Igor
I do not know about Prince Igor, but you remind me that there is a speaking
role for a child in Chaikovsky, Pique Dame. Il capitano della squadra dei
ragazzi. But he does not sing, he only speaks.
>Offenbach: Tales of Hoffman
No. I suppose, the idea is Nicklausse, but Nicklausse, like Cherubino,
Oscar, or Haensel, is sung by a woman.
>Saint-Saens: Samson et Delilah
I can think of nothing. Perhaps there is a boy who leads the blind Samson?
But there is not a singing child.
>Wagner: Die Meistersinger, Lohengrin, Rienzi
No. The idea for Meistersinger is the Lehrbuben? They are women and
tenors. For Lohengrin, I suppose, it is possible to use children for the
Edelknaben (like Tannhaeuser). But they are not written by Wagner for
children. Also the Hirt in Tannhaeuser is not written for a child. In
Wagner I know only the Waldvogel, and this, I can not imagine it with a
child. In Parsifal there are boys' voices in the Temple choruses, I think.
>Strauss: Die Frau ohne Schatten
The voices of the unborn children? When they sing in chorus at the end,
yes. But the "Fischlein," normally they are women, I think.
>Flotow: Martha
I think no, but I am happy if someone corrects me. Perhaps there is a page,
as we have the page in Falstaff, who does not sing or speak?
>Verdi: Ballo; Rigoletto
For me at least, absolutely no. Oscar is surely impossible for a child;
the page in Rigoletto is normally a woman, although, I suppose, possible
with a child.
>Dvorak: Rusalka
The kitchen boy? I have only seen this always with a woman; it is a
difficult role.
You have seen, there are also many operas which are written specially for
children and use children's voices. I think, you will find, these operas
are often not known internationally. An American does not know Pollicino;
a European does not know, what is it called, Griffalkin? I know several
other children's operas which I did not name, because I thought, surely
they are not internationally known. I thought perhaps Pollicino will be
recognized, but I was mistaken. To make a list of these operas written
just for children, this will be very difficult. But I think you are
looking for operas in the standard repertoire, and it surprises me, that
the list is really quite short.
tresbirri
Mark D Lew
wrote:
> I can think of nothing. Perhaps there is a boy who leads the blind Samson?
> But there is not a singing child.
In the recent SFO production there was indeed a boy who leads the blind
Samson. He does not sing.
> I think no, but I am happy if someone corrects me. Perhaps there is a page,
> as we have the page in Falstaff, who does not sing or speak?
The dramatis personae page in my vocal score adds to the bottom of the list
"Chorus of Ladies, Servants, Farmers, Hunters and Huntresses, Pages, &c."
I know which choruses are the ladies, servants, farmers and hunters, but
even after skimming through the score I can't identify which are the pages.
> For me at least, absolutely no. Oscar is surely impossible for a child;
> the page in Rigoletto is normally a woman, although, I suppose, possible
> with a child.
I concur with Tresbirri on this. The page in Rigoletto could conceivably
be sung by a boy, but the part was intended for a woman, and I see little
to be gained by casting a boy instead. Oscar, on the other hand, is
definitely not for a child. I also agree that Nicklausse and the Lehrbuben
would make no sense as children.
> You have seen, there are also many operas which are written specially for
> children and use children's voices. I think, you will find, these operas
> are often not known internationally. An American does not know Pollicino;
> a European does not know, what is it called, Griffalkin? [...]
Most Americans probably don't know Griffelkin either. A shame, since it's
such a darling work.
It tells the story of a child devil, named "Griffelkin". As the opera
opens, he is celebrating his tenth birthday with his friends and family in
Hell. As a present, he will be given a trip to the surface, and he sings
enthusiastically about all the wicked deeds he will do now that he is grown
up. On the surface, he has various amusing adventures in his attempts to
wreak havoc. He then befriends a girl, who is sad because her mother has
died. He feels compassion for her, so he brings the mother back to life.
After the intermission, Griffelkin is back in Hell, and the other devils
are outraged that he has committed this good deed. He is put on trial,
found guilty, and sentenced to exile. He is banished from Hell and sent to
the surface. He goes back to the girl and her revived mother, and they
adopt him into their family.
Like many of my favorites, Griffelkin falls into that neglected category of
contemporary operas which have a hint of the "modern" sound but are mostly
tuneful and easily accessible. We frequently hear people asking
rhetorically why such operas are not written, but the reality is that works
of this kind don't attract much audience. Most people who like
contemporary opera don't want them to be so unsophisticated musically, and
most people who like opera to be tuneful aren't interested in anything
contemporary.
Even some older works fall into this category. I think perhaps the reason
S^vanda Dudák doesn't get more play is that it also has a sound that
encompasses both "modern" and tuneful.
mdl
Mark D Lew
[answering me]
> >I am not convinced by the idea, which Orphee seems to be suggesting, that
> >if a character is listed as "soprano" or "mezzosoprano" in the score, it is
> >intended for an adult. A boy can be a soprano or a mezzosoprano.
>
> No, otherwise is especially written in the score ' Kindersopran or
Kinderstimme
> or treble or child's voice.
Perhaps this is an issue of translation. Maybe the words have connotations
in Europe that they do not have here. In America, it is not uncommon to
refer to a boy as either "soprano" or "mezzosoprano". I gather that that
is not the case in Europe.
Unfortunately, I don't have on my shelf a score for any American opera with
an obvious child's part. I do, however, have a vocal score of Tosca. This
is the usual Schirmer reprint of the Ricordi pages with stage directions
and introductory material replaced by English translations. In that score,
the cast of characters looks like this:
> FLORIA TOSCA, an opera singer .................. SOPRANO
> MARIO CAVARADOSSI, a painter ................... TENOR
> BARON SCARPIA, the chief of the Roman police ... BARITONE
< snip >
> A SHEPHERD BOY ................................. SOPRANO
Yes, of course, this page was added by Schirmer and doesn't necessarily
reflect Puccini's original, but that's exactly the point. This represents
standard practice in America. The shepherd is a boy, and we call him a
"soprano". He is given exactly the same label as is given to Tosca.
Am I to understand that practice is different in Europe? That there is a
voice-part label that is exclusively used for a child's voice?
> Pollicino, we spoke two days ago about, is a childrens opera by Henze.
> Maybe you thought it was little 'Pollione' (Pollionino?) :-))
Yes, that was my thinking, though I did rather doubt it.
I remember a lot of discussion of Henze, but not Pollicino specifically.
Was it mentioned only in passing, or was there a longer discussion that I
somehow missed?
Since the earlier discussion, I've done a little reading up on Henze, and I
was surprised to discover that several of his works are written to English
librettos. This makes it seem all the more odd that he is almost never
performed in America.
mdl
SDRL
>earlier to me as having boys' parts but to date I cannot confirm this (it is
>possible they are supers only): they are:
>
>Borodin: Prince Igor
>Offenbach: Tales of Hoffman
>Saint-Saens: Samson et Delilah
>Wagner: Die Meistersinger, Lohengrin, Rienzi
>Strauss: Die Frau ohne Schatten
>Flotow: Martha
>Verdi: Ballo; Rigoletto
>Dvorak: Rusalka
>
>If anyone can confirm whether these contain singing roles for boys or
>children that would be much appreciated. Thanks again!
>
>JCD
Die Meistersinger- I'm thinking of the one apprentice who has a brief solo in
the role call in Act One. When Kothner calls out the name "Niklaus Vogel", a
prentice rises and sings, "Ist krank!" (He's sick). I realize that this
prentice as well as many of the other prentices in the chorus are played by
women dressed as boys. However, it is possible that a boy could have this one
line solo. Which gender usually sings that line?
David Melnick
GRNDPADAVE wrote:
> There are many of them in BORIS GODUNOV. Oops -- those are boy-ars.
>
> :>)) G/P Dave
Oh boy,
High boys have lots of good parts. There's the part in AIDA just
before O patria mia. And at the beginning of the Bacchanale
in SAMSON. (In French opera they call themselves hautbois.)
David
Roland Kayser
had on board of the ship several life-buoys.
Sorry if it's an old one.
Roland Kayser
Matthew B. Tepper
news:3C11E36E...@pacbell.net:
I had to double-read that one before I got it.
David Melnick
Roland Kayser wrote:
Old as the hills. Oops! Those weren't hills. They were twin
pyramids. (Now, now. Not those two. Hills don't sing.)
Dav
Roland Kayser
> Roland Kayser wrote:
> > Sorry if it's an old one.
> Old as the hills. Oops! Those weren't hills. They were twin
> pyramids. (Now, now. Not those two. Hills don't sing.)
Oh, that old. - OK, I won't try any more english puns.
Still worse: I don't get yours about hills and
singing pyramids (purr-amids?).
Roland Kayser
David Melnick
Roland Kayser wrote:
The Met telecast had a backdrop that consisted of a projection
of two abstract pyramids. Eaglen and Heppner often just stood
on the stage looking like them, except for the singers'
somewhat more irregular shapes.
Please don't stop your punning!
Dav
Roland Kayser
> Roland Kayser wrote:
> > Still worse: I don't get yours about hills and
> > singing pyramids (purr-amids?).
> The Met telecast had a backdrop that consisted of a projection
> of two abstract pyramids. Eaglen and Heppner often just stood
> on the stage looking like them, except for the singers'
> somewhat more irregular shapes.
Ah, thank you! I can't receive those transmissions,
unfortunately.
Roland Kayser
Liam Devlin
<snicker>
A. Brain
Ravel's L'Enfant surely could be done by a boy, though has not been at least
on record.
Hansel has been recorded with a boy singing Hansel, on EMI, a set I have on
LP and want on CD, but am too cheap to order from Amazon.de.
Several recordings and many productions of Zauberfloete have used boys for
the three boys, as did Bergman's movie and a few DVD versions. I have seen
it done with boys several times, with mixed results.
Britten's Death in Venice as produced originally in the early '70s had
"authentic" young boys as dancers and other non-singing roles, including
Tadziu (the boy is fourteen in the Mann book and as far as I know, also in
the opera). The singing role of the
voice of Dionysus, representing the protagonist's feelings for the young
Tadziu, is for a baritone, as I recall. I think recent productions have
advanced Tadzio and his friends into the late teens, which is unnecessary,
and even anathema to the opera's intention, but perhaps understandable.
Also a non-singing role, the protagonist's big scene in Peter Grimes
features a boy in his clasp in a dramatically ambiguous situation that is
essential to the work. I was fortunate enough to have seen the great Jon
Vickers in this role years ago. Yes, I probably would have preferred to see
him in some other role, but this was one of his best.
Knussen's "Where the Wild Things Are" could be done by a boy in the role of
Max.
Henze did an opera in the '80s featuring a boy protagonist--I can't recall
the name of the work or further details. Anyone remember that one?
Monteverdi's Poppea often features a boy in the role of Cupid.
I think that Octavian, Niklausse, Cherubino, and other trouser roles are
best done by women, but ideally they should look the part of boys, or at
least not look totally unlike the roles being played.
Similarly, the part of Salome, if it must be done, should be taken by
someone who looks like she could be fifteen. I am not eager to see this
particular opera again, but definitely would not see it for a superior vocal
performance by a dramatically unconvincing singer.
--
A. Brain
Remove "nospam" when replying via email
"Mark D Lew" <mark...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net...
Mark D Lew
<abr...@NOSPAMatt.net> wrote:
> Ravel's L'Enfant surely could be done by a boy, though has not been at least
> on record.
I like the idea of Ravel's Enfant sung by a boy, but the music isn't easy.
It would have to be an unusually talented boy to pull it off. Lacking
that, I'd rather see it played by a woman.
mdl
David7Gable
The boy in Act II of Boheme. Peter Maxwell Davies has written operas for
performance by children.
-david gable
Eric Peterson
> for children. Are there really so few? (I do not know Albert Herring well,
> is there not a child who sings in this opera?)
Albert Herring has three kid roles who sing - two girls and a boy.
They're great characters, too. The two girls on the original
recording were sung by women, and the production I was involved in had
(small) women in the girl roles, but the boy pretty much has to be
played by a boy.
CB White
to me the audience joins in the choruses too -- gosh, that's 20 years since
I studied that opera. :-(
in article 13f08cb5.01121...@posting.google.com, Eric Peterson at
er...@toastpoint.com wrote on 12/13/01 9:13 AM:
Astrphl
like that); Britten's Let's Make An Opera; Puccini's Tosca (the Shepard),
Britten's The Turn of the Screw; just a few that come to mind.