Henry Johansen and Kirsten Flagstad: A Nazi Love Story
REG
euridition, as a friend says), I thought I'd add something about Flagstad
and her marriage to Henry Johansen, her second husband. He's often simply
described as a wealthy industrialist involved with Norwegian forestry who
was somehow pulled into the orbit of Nazi-sympathizers in Norway during the
war, but the fact is that Johansen was a founding member of the Norwegian
Nazi Party in 1932 or 33, and made a living selling timber to the Reich
before and during the war for what is described as housing and sheds
(hmmmmm).
When Flagstad went for her two month summer vacation in Norway in 1941, the
Reich was reaching its greatest extent in a series of seemingly inevitable
victories in which only Britain held out - Germany had just attacked Russia,
and when Flagstad decided to stay in Norway a few months later and 'stand by
her man', she was standing by a wealthy industrialist and prominent Nazi
doing business with the largest European Empire history had ever seen. By
that fall, Nazi tanks were at the gates of Moscow, and although, actually,
the battle for Russia was lost very soon afterwards, few were or would be
aware of this for another year or two.
What's interesting is that it's very difficult to find when Flagstad
actually married Johansen. It's not a date that pops out in most research -
and that's interesting because he married her in 1930 or so (he was her
second husband). "The man she loved" developed his entire interest and
support of the Nazi Party during their marriage, and while Flagstad sang in
opera houses with numerous Jewish artists and other undesirables whom the
Nazi Party was pledged to destroy, one has a hard time imagining these same
people sitting down for coffee at Flagstad's own home in Norway, and it's
quite difficult to believe that she was naive about her husband's interests
and beliefs. In fact, he must have consorted with Nazis and embraced the
'philosophy' as any other good Nazi would have, and she had to be aware of
what that meant.
She was, herself, of course, not a party member, and unlike some other
artists in Nazi-occupied Europe, didin't perform, other than three strange
performances in Switzerland, during the war years. But she was certainly not
a 'victim' and could not have been naive about what her husband believed and
was struggling for, and her decision to stand by him was not one of heroism.
She gave up her American and British audiences for a man she believed in,
who was at the height of his influence, and in withdrawing from singing
decided not to 'play favorites' in one of the great battles of civilization
of the last 500 years. It is of perhaps slight interest that it was Johasen
who first introduced her to the Wagner repertoire, shortly after their
marriage.
It's not necessary to ask what others would have done in her place - perhaps
the right answer is that many others couldn't love a person whose entire
political philosophy was based on a system of wholesale destruction of
others based on notions of racial superiority - but it is important to put
her actions in the context in which they occured.
samu...@comcast.net
the Nazis and Flagstad herself gave tacit support to Nazi atrocities?
I note that at several crucial points you rely on assumptions rather
than facts (he "must" have known). Is there real evidence to support
this speculation? Is your message an attack on Flagstad for being
politically incorrect? Or do you merely think she was naive and
passive?
Samurai
L_Till...@yahoo.com
When are the forthcoming 'nups' of La PujStinque Bollmann and its
intended, the ever-lovely pointyheaded whine-smelleeay of UnWashed,
DC??
Inquiring minds...etc.....
Derrick Everett
drift of your posting appears to be the result of you swallowing hook,
line and sinker the lies and distortions that were circulated -- by
Norwegian diplomats, politicians, journalists and lawyers -- to defame the
character of Kirsten Flagstad, her husband and other family members in the
second half of the 1940's. Those allegations have been disproved beyond
all reasonable doubt and so there can be no excuse for your repetition of
defamatory statements about Flagstad and Johansen.
Among the prime movers in this hate campaign were the Norwegian ambassador
in Washington -- who never forgave Flagstad for declining his "invitation"
to give a free recital at the embassy -- and one Sundfor, a lawyer with a
long-standing grudge against Johansen. They were supported by socialist
politicians who, after the war ended, were vindictive against businessmen
like Johansen; businessmen who had joined the NS party (not the "Nazi
party" but the anti-communist party led by Vidkun Quisling) because of
their fear of those very politicians with their close ties to Stalin. That
does not excuse any of them who continued their membership of the NS after
Norway was occupied and it is to Henry Johansen's credit that he resigned
from the party.
This campaign was inflamed by a newspaper whose editors tried to inflate
the case against Henry Johansen into a big story, which it never was.
Although his company like the rest of the timber industry had collaborated
with the occupying forces, they had not made the enormous profits that
were alleged. This campaign even extended to blackening the names of
members of the Johansen family who had been active in the resistance
during the occupation. Most of the charges -- with the exceptions of
those against one of Henry Johansen's sons, Fredrik -- were dismissed by
the judges in the trial of 1949 (according to the judgement given on
29.11.1949).
The relevant facts and the background to these accusations has been
described in great detail, on the basis of contemporary documents
including police records and documents from the court proceedings before
and after the war, by Ingebord Solbraekken in her recent book, "Galskap og
Rettergang: Landsviksaken mot Kirsten Flagstad og Henry Johansen" (Madness
and Process: the Treason Case against KF and HJ), Transit A/S, Oslo 2007.
You state, among other claims, that it was Henry Johansen who introduced
Kirsten Flagstad to Wagner's music after their marriage. They were
married in May 1930. I have before me a photograph of Kirsten Flagstad as
Elsa, in a performance of 'Lohengrin', on stage at Oslo's National Theatre
in June 1929.
--
Derrick Everett
============ Writing from 59°54'N 10°37'E =============
http://home.c2i.net/monsalvat/www.htm -- Wagner links
http://home.c2i.net/monsalvat/wagnerfaq.htm -- HMCW FAQ
alanwa...@aol.com
I know nothing about the political background (and care even less) but
Kirsten Flagstad was a world-wide acknowledged interpreter of Wagner
by the mid 1930s at least. Her debut as Isolde was in 1932, she was a
Seiglinde at Bayreuth by 1934 an established Brunnhilde in San
Francisco by 1936 and another Isolde for Beecham in London in 1937 not
to mention her contributions in Walkure and Gotterdammerung for
Furtwangler in the Covent Garden Ring Cycle of 1937, fragments of
which are preserved on recordings.
What the girl got up to during the War cannot say but she was well
into Wagner (why would she be in the Beecham/Furtwangler team if not
so?) long before that dreadful event.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
gerberk
If you dont know him dont bother The guy is not worth a mention REG
"REG" <Rich...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:46e60932$0$19604$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
alanwa...@aol.com
wrote:
>
> I know nothing about the political background (and care even less) but
> Kirsten Flagstad was a world-wide acknowledged interpreter of Wagner
> by the mid 1930s at least. Her debut as Isolde was in 1932, she was a
> Seiglinde at Bayreuth by 1934 an established Brunnhilde in San
> Francisco by 1936 and another Isolde for Beecham in London in 1937 not
> to mention her contributions in Walkure and Gotterdammerung for
> Furtwangler in the Covent Garden Ring Cycle of 1937, fragments of
> which are preserved on recordings.
>
> What the girl got up to during the War cannot say but she was well
> into Wagner (why would she be in the Beecham/Furtwangler team if not
> so?) long before that dreadful event.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> - Show quoted text -
PS: As a member of the SWF you will know that many live in hope of the
complete Ring Cycle of 1937. I was about to say it might possibly be
a sort of "Holy Grail" of Ring Cycle recordings given the performers
and what scant evidence we have and for a while thought better of it
but decided to continue nontheless.
LT_Til...@yahoo.com
> The mention of 'Nazi Love Story' begs the question: >
This raises the question of why I wrote "begs" the question when I
actually meant 'raises' the question. On the rare occasions when the
two sides of my 'brain' speak to each other startling data is
occasionally transmitted. Take "begs the question", for example. How
was I to know that 'begging' the question is an argument in formal
logic that improperly assumes as true the very point the speaker is
trying to argue for? Who needs to know shit like that? Yeah yeah,
I'm embarrassed alright, but if old Leftybrain had been doing its job
I wouldn't be in this pickle. Fyoucque me!
This is LT from the left saying goodnight...
And I'm LT from the right saying "time to bake the pies." Aieee those
pies!!
L_Till...@yahoo.com
How so>, -When it's pluperfectly clear that Boll has no brain, never
had a brain, and never WILL have a brain.
Ergo, Science's basic rules exclude the vaguest possibility of a *Boll-
Brain.
Best,
LT
*Boll-Brain; an outstandly apt oxymoron -*about* an idiot.
L_Till...@yahoo.com
The begged question is as yet unanswered....
L_Till...@yahoo.com
REG
overstatement I made on her Wagner singing as an excuse for dismissing
everything I say - she'd actually known Elsa since she was 10 (!!!), but
she'd never heard or seen Tristan and Isolde (!!!!!!) until Johansen dragged
her (almost literally) to the Staatsopera in 1930 or so to see it, and she
fell asleep, allegedly, in the performance - perhaps an urban legend, but if
it's true I'll bet it was during the Marke scene. :) In any event, that
point really is a side show to what we're talking about.
I also have gone back today to read enough of your posts on the other group
to respect your point of view, but I do think that some of that point of
view (and not you personally) are a touch revisionist, certainly for me.
What you don't seem to challenge, and what was key for me, was in a sense a
response to Hoff's point in an earlier email. Flagstad went to Norway for an
annual vacation, at the time that it was Occupied Norway, and when the Nazis
had created Fortress Europe. At the time of her vacation, all of Europe was
at Hitler's feet - only Britain was holding out (and at this point, there
were serious fears about a Channel crossing, and the Nazis had indeed
prepared a book of Britains that they would seize and incarcerate or kill on
invasion) and the United States was still, despite Roosevelt, isolationist.
So, she was going over to a husband, a member of the Nowegian Nazi party
(we'll get into this a bit more in a moment), with every possible
expectation that she, and he, would be part of a victorious German-occupied
Norway for 1000 years to come. At the point she decided to stay, and give up
her singing, and her American and British audiences, at least for the time
being, it looked further as if Russia would fall to the German war machine.
This was 1941, so she knew about the Nuremburg Laws, Kristallnacht, the
Generalgouvernment of Poland, concentration (if not extermination)camps, the
euthenasia of German retardates and physically impaired children (although
that program had been stopped after a few years, because that was one kind
of destruction the German people didn't want), and on and on. It may have
been a strategy (who knows how long or short term anyone thought it would
be, but certainly in 1941, before the entry of America, it looked like the
war would be over quickly), but it was no sacrifice to stay in Norway with a
man who was high up in the Quisling party and quite wealthy, while German
troops rolled on and on. Various sources have stated that she 'of course'
hoped for a "Norwegian" (sic) victory, and why wouldn't she have?
This was my major point.
The second point. With which you disagree, I believe wrongly, is that she
was not 'naive'. I see not a drop of evidence that anything in Flagstad's
life or career was ever naive, and certainly not this decision. A naive
person blunders, makes mistakes because they don't know what to do, and
generally makes a fool of themselves. She may have been 'country' in a
certain way, but there wasn't a moment in her life or career that shows this
kind of mis-step, and in fact she was canny, not naive, in her withdrawl
.She didn't sing ANYWHERE except in Switzerland, and that shows she knew
just the game she was playing, and when she wrote to her friends in response
to how Switzerland was (and they expected some coded message back), she
simply said it was 'beautiful, beautiful, beautiful." This isn't naive, but
calculating. If you will tell me that you believe that Laura Bush is naive,
I will reconsider whether I should consider that Flagstad was, but I think
the ball is, as we say here, in your court.
As to further points, I see not a shred of evidenced that Nasjonal Samling
was anything but a Nazi organization. Look at Wikipedia, look at even
contemporary (today) book reviews of books of Flagstad's life, look at how
it was seen historically. I believe that your characterization of them as an
"anticommunist" party makes me feel a little queasy - so were the Nazis, of
course, but again I refer you to every other reference I have found. What
makes me uncomfortable is that you erect a kind of conspiracy theory about
what 'socialist' politicians wanted to 'get' the NS, but even the King of
Norway, after the way, thought that perhaps all NSers should be tried and
executed. It seems risable that KF and Johansen would have suffered because
they turned down an invitation to an ambassador's party, and I hope you see
that.
Also, as you well know, her husband was jailed, and died in jail - I know
of no evidence that he was exonnerated before his death. Why was he jailed?
Just politics? He and Flagstad were assessed an overwhelming fine (she was
liable as his spouse, not because she was 'guilty'). Something in your
characterization of all this makes me a bit uncomfortable, as I say, and
doesn't tally with anything else I've read. I am certainly uncomfortable
with your trying to santizie Johansen by making him an associate of
QUISLING! If he was, he was certainly an Alter Kampfer, wouldn't you agree?
Hamsum was also never found 'guilty', and neither was Ezra Pound, but in
neither case does that mean anything. The fact that Johansen's profits may
not have been 'enormous' is surely irrelevant, don't you agree? The fact is
that Johanen was doing a lot of business with the Reich well before the
occupation. Again, he was a founding member of the NS - you don't dispute
that, but don't give it any proper weight.
I hope others will look into this matter as they are interested.
"Derrick Everett" <sparafu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:46e70100$1...@news.broadpark.no...
REG
I hope I've answered in another post today the relatively minor point about
KF and Wagner. She knew Elsa before the age of 18, but it was Johansen who
first introduced her to Tristan und Isolde. In any event, the issue is a
side show.
As to your other point, it's fine that you're not interested in her
political background - there's no need to be. But it matters tome, , as a
matter of interest in how she's whitewashed now (not that it changes my view
of her as one of the great singers (and musicians) of this last century).
What I do want to say is that some things matter more to one person than
another, and we just have to live with that. When the dreadful scandal about
Robert (?) King broke, you were clear that knowing what you now knew, it
might change somewhat how or to the extent that you listened to his
recordings. He was never really a big figure for me, and so it didn't
matter, but that doesn't make me his defender, and on the other hand there
should be some tolerance and understanding of those for whom the kind of
Flagstad/Johansen history has the same kind of valence that other things do
to you.
Best
<alanwa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1189550981.2...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
andre storfer
andre storfer
makes me feel > a little queasy - so were the Nazis, of course,
"Queasy?' Queasy when it was every rightwinger's excuse for the Nazis?
If I'm not mistaken, isn't the Republican Party anti-communist?
Saint Andre ~ Juif qui ris (;-)>
REG
"andre storfer" <and...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:sYidnU8O1Mr9_3Xb...@comcast.com...
alanwa...@aol.com
> Alan
>
> I hope I've answered in another post today the relatively minor point about
> KF and Wagner. She knew Elsa before the age of 18, but it was Johansen who
> first introduced her to Tristan und Isolde. In any event, the issue is a
> side show.
>
> As to your other point, it's fine that you're not interested in her
> political background - there's no need to be. But it matters tome, , as a
> matter of interest in how she's whitewashed now (not that it changes my view
> of her as one of the great singers (and musicians) of this last century).
> What I do want to say is that some things matter more to one person than
> another, and we just have to live with that. When the dreadful scandal about
> Robert (?) King broke, you were clear that knowing what you now knew, it
> might change somewhat how or to the extent that you listened to his
> recordings. He was never really a big figure for me, and so it didn't
> matter, but that doesn't make me his defender, and on the other hand there
> should be some tolerance and understanding of those for whom the kind of
> Flagstad/Johansen history has the same kind of valence that other things do
> to you.
>
> Best
>
>
> > I know nothing about the political background (and care even less) but
> > Kirsten Flagstad was a world-wide acknowledged interpreter of Wagner
> > by the mid 1930s at least. Her debut as Isolde was in 1932, she was a
> > Seiglinde at Bayreuth by 1934 an established Brunnhilde in San
> > Francisco by 1936 and another Isolde for Beecham in London in 1937 not
> > to mention her contributions in Walkure and Gotterdammerung for
> > Furtwangler in the Covent Garden Ring Cycle of 1937, fragments of
> > which are preserved on recordings.
>
> > What the girl got up to during the War cannot say but she was well
> > into Wagner (why would she be in the Beecham/Furtwangler team if not
> > so?) long before that dreadful event.
>
> > Kind regards,
>
> - Show quoted text -
All that REG, I don't know what went on in Norway with those two or
anyone else - there seems on this thread to be two versions.
But although I know what went on Ireland vis a vis the English (or
think I do) I've learned to live with it and have many, many English
friends.
I believe there comes a time when we all have to move on lest we get
marooned.
REG
feelings about him. It's really about a certain kind of interest I have - I
am sure it comes across when I write a lot more personal than I ever feel
it, but that's something about my writing style generally, I think, and not
how I necessarily react to people. Look I will write about Schwartzkopf the
way I do until the day I die - and to a large extent it's because of you
that I don't berate her more than I do - but again, I'll bet you I have more
of her recordings than almost anyone, and obviously really love a great deal
of her singing.
I understand it doesn't come across that way in the writing but that's part
of the problem of internet communication
Best
<alanwa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1189640045.0...@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
andre storfer
Pshaw! [ or is it Phsaw?]
A Bronx Boy never learned such a word.
AES
"REG" <Rich...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:46e875aa$0$15334$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
RbtHagen
point, major or minor, in 25 words or less instead of the endless
drivel that you love to bore us to death with.
1kirsten...@gmail.com
I love Kirsten with all my heart, and I think I have more recordings of her than almost anyone, except the museum in Haman or the university in Oslo! It would be interesting to compare notes! Sincerely, Randy