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Charlie Handelman

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Jun 28, 2004, 11:23:56 PM6/28/04
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I TRY...Lord knows I TRY..to hear everything before I finally kick off..and
have come to appreciate more and more as the years pass...but there are stil
lsome operas i never really "got into."Does not mean I never will...but at the
moment I still have trouble with:

Rake's Progress
La Sonnambula
Vespri Siciliani(I have two perf.for next yr..and know a lot will be fine..but
as a Verdi lover I never got enthusiastic about it..time will tell.)
Magic Flute (still will see it)
Death in Venice
Tristan (I love act One...but the rest of it does very little for me, and I am
a BIGGG Wagner Fan)
Well.maybe a few others..but almost everything is wonderful.....so that is
not too bad....CH
My best, Charlie.

My Website dedicated to the vocal art is located at:

http://www.handelmania.com

David7Gable

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Jun 30, 2004, 12:47:28 AM6/30/04
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I can't take:

Thais
Adriana Lecouvreur
Lakmé
Suor Angelica
large parts of Madama Butterfly
Andrea Chenier
Fedora
Cavalleria rusticana

I do like Werther, the Lamento di Federico from L'Arlesiana, and plenty of
other Puccini, but not these operas. It saddens me that neither Gounod's Faust
nor his Roméo et Juliette thrills me as they did when I was a kid. Same goes
for Carmen. (At least I own an early 19th-century edition of André Chenier's
poetry.)

>Tristan (I love act One...but the rest of it does very little for me, and I
>am
>a BIGGG Wagner Fan)

I should have thought that the Liebesnacht and Liebestod were easier to take
than Act I.

-david gable

comes...@hotmail.com

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Jun 30, 2004, 10:01:01 AM6/30/04
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David7Gable wrote:
<< I can't take... Adriana Lecouvreur...Large parts of Madama
Butterfly...Andrea Chenier...Cavalleria Rusticana.>>

Yeah, I know just what you mean: there's just something about
ravishingly beautiful music that really turns me off, too.
I can really relate to you.

~ Roger


Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jun 30, 2004, 11:02:21 AM6/30/04
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Same here, Roger! How can anyone STAND that ravishingly gorgeous music,
anyway? All that "passione" gunk! Who needs that proletarian garbage??
Basta, we say!!!!!

Yeah!

LT

From: comes...@hotmail.com

Leonard Tillman  

GRNDPADAVE

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Jun 30, 2004, 12:56:12 PM6/30/04
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>From: tapef...@webtv.net (Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico)
>Date: 06/30/2004 10:02 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <1061-40E...@storefull-3333.bay.webtv.net>
>Leonard Tillman =A0
~~~~~~~~~~
Is it necessary to pillory a subscriber who expresses an opinion that disagrees
with yours?

I happen to enjoy 3 of the 4 operas Mr. Gable disdains. So what?

He's entitled to his opinion. Can't you respect that?

==G/P Dave

Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jun 30, 2004, 1:19:11 PM6/30/04
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GPD:

>Is it necessary to pillory a subscriber who
> expresses an opinion that disagrees with
> yours?

Gawd!!!

Who's "pillorying" any "subscribers" here????
I don't believe in pillorying.

In fact, I threw away my Do-It-Yourself® Home-Pillory Kit *years* ago.
(Actually, I traded it for some Lakme CDs, but tell no one, please.)

>I happen to enjoy 3 of the 4 operas Mr. Gable
> disdains. So what?

So nothing.

>He's entitled to his opinion. Can't you respect
> that?

Better yet, didn't you see that we AGREED with it?

What's with this wave of paranioa here??

--Really disconcerting, one must say! Tsk.

Leonard Tillman  

Valfer

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Jun 30, 2004, 4:49:10 PM6/30/04
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david...@aol.com (David7Gable) wrote in message news:<20040630004728...@mb-m18.aol.com>...
> I can't take:

> ...large parts of Madama Butterfly...

-david gable

I don't, either (in a physical sense). The singer portraying
Cio-Cio-San should at least create the illusion of a Geisha. The
closest I've seen have been Renata Scotto and Mirella Freni.

I've seen some rather robust "Butterlies" in my time. They turn me
off to the opera as soon as they step onstage in Act I, high Db or
not. By the time they get to the "Quindici netti, netti" line, I'm
ready to leave.

Valfer

John

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Jun 30, 2004, 4:56:16 PM6/30/04
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Diana Soviero was beautiful in this role - tiny little thing and had the
mannerisms down pat.

- John

"Valfer" <Val...@MSN.com> wrote in message
news:ad3a18ad.04063...@posting.google.com...

Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jun 30, 2004, 5:37:47 PM6/30/04
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Ying Huang, in the late '90s film, was as ideal a Cio Cio San, visually
too, as I've ever seen.
A few others in that league:

Diana Soviero, Victoria de los Angeles, Mirella Freni, and Renata
Scotto.

Best,
LT

Valfer wrote:

>The singer portraying Cio-Cio-San should at
> least create the illusion of a Geisha. The
> closest I've seen have been Renata Scotto
> and Mirella Freni.

>I've seen some rather robust "Butterlies" in my
> time. They turn me off to the opera as soon
> as they step onstage in Act I, high Db or not.
> By the time they get to the "Quindici netti,
> netti" line, I'm ready to leave.
>Valfer

Leonard Tillman  

Charlie Handelman

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Jun 30, 2004, 6:08:36 PM6/30/04
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I absolutely adore Butterfly..i cry at the music of the Butterfly
entrance.,....and never stop...Puccini's works tear at my heartstrings..CH

Charlie Handelman

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Jun 30, 2004, 6:10:29 PM6/30/04
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I also saw Won Hung Lo as Sharpless...CH

Charlie Handelman

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Jun 30, 2004, 6:09:48 PM6/30/04
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Diana Soviero was beautiful in this role - tiny little thing and had the
mannerisms down pat.


She sure was great...just even got a cd of a Dallas perf.that my friend in
Australia did....(celestial audio)..with a professional cover..
As you know,Diana has been a good friend for over 25 yrs..and I still consider
her one of the all-time greatest singers....CH

donpaolo

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Jun 30, 2004, 6:52:00 PM6/30/04
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Right --- and, God forbid a tenor should add a heartfelt sob, we can crucify
him! Sheesh - musica senza sentimento - that's what the snobs would dictate
to us mere mortals...

DonPaolo
"Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico" <tapef...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1061-40E...@storefull-3333.bay.webtv.net...

Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jun 30, 2004, 6:46:07 PM6/30/04
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From: plac...@aol.comnojunk (Charlie Handelman)

>I also saw Won Hung Lo as Sharpless...

So did I, but afterwards: At a nearby Chinese take-out, he ordered some
of the best, aromatic Moo Goo Gai Pan you ever saw. It was so terrific,
I had to order a quart to take back home. Fortune cookies included.


                              

Leonard Tillman  

donpaolo

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Jun 30, 2004, 6:55:14 PM6/30/04
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Is it necessary for you to consistently act the part of rebbe, when you are
far, far, FAR from qualified, based on your own show of a lack of respect?

DonPaolo

DonPaolo
"GRNDPADAVE" <grndp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040630125612...@mb-m01.aol.com...

La Donna Mobile

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Jun 30, 2004, 6:58:34 PM6/30/04
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"Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico" <tapef...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1061-40E...@storefull-3333.bay.webtv.net...

Yeah!

LT

From: comes...@hotmail.com

Leonard Tillman

I have to confess to having a strange problem specifically with the
Intermezzo from Cav. I am incredibly familiar with it having it on all sorts
of compilations, and it tends to get overused as background etc music; I
even have it with words.

Sometimes I really love it; sometimes I hear it begin and think 'oh no, it's
that whiny tune'. This bears no relation to version and is entirely
abitrary. OTOH, I always like the Easter Hymn, although it only dawned on me
recently that it is somewhat influenced by Va pensiero.


Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jun 30, 2004, 7:47:27 PM6/30/04
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Don Paolo to GPD:

>Is it necessary for you to consistently act the
> part of rebbe, when you are far, far, FAR from
> qualified, based on your own show of a lack
> of respect?

>DonPaolo

Correctamundo, DP! Thanks.

And guess which pompous, backstabbing, yellow shalebag git will now dare
to call you "misguided" for seeing this my way? The creep only likes
one-sided exchanges, as can be seen from his posting record.

Clue: The cruddily sanctimonious gavone keeps making accusations that
fit him to perfection - while repeatedly tossing them at me and another
poster, - kinda nervy of the bum, - and I of course toss 'em back in his
ugly, lying, schifoso face, - with pleasure. :-)))

>DonPaolo

LT

"GRNDPADAVE" <grndp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040630125612...@mb-m01.aol.com...

From: tapef...@webtv.net (Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico)

Date: 06/30/2004 10:02 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: <1061-40E...@storefull-3333.bay.webtv.net>

"Same here, Roger! How can anyone STAND
that ravishingly gorgeous music, anyway? All that "passione" gunk! Who
needs that proletarian garbage?? Basta, we say!!!!!
Yeah!
LT"

From: comes...@hotmail.com
David7Gable wrote:
<< I can't take... Adriana Lecouvreur...Large parts of Madama
Butterfly...Andrea Chenier...Cavalleria Rusticana.>>

>Yeah, I know just what you mean: there's just
> something about ravishingly beautiful music
> that really turns me off, too. I can really relate
> to you.
>~ Roger

Leonard Tillman      

Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jun 30, 2004, 7:55:03 PM6/30/04
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From: donp...@erols.com (donpaolo)

>Right --- and, God forbid a tenor should add a
> heartfelt sob, we can crucify him! Sheesh -
> musica senza sentimento - that's what the
> snobs would dictate to us mere mortals...
>DonPaolo

You know, I liberally say let the snobs enjoy what they enjoy, -- so
long as that doesn't include attempts to "instruct" the rest of us on
what we must or "should" say, how we "should" say it, how often, et al.
After all, they don't AFAIK consult with us prior to their OWN postings,
right? So, they've no right to assume false-superiority either.

Note: If they've made such requests for "guidance", I never received
them. But that scenario is bloody unlikely. :-)))

Best,
LT

"Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico" <tapef...@webtv.net> wrote in
message news:1061-40E...@storefull-3333.bay.webtv.net...

"Same here, Roger! How can anyone STAND that ravishingly gorgeous music,
anyway? All that "passione" gunk! Who needs that proletarian garbage??
Basta, we say!!!!!
Yeah!
LT"

From: comes...@hotmail.com

David7Gable wrote:
<< I can't take... Adriana Lecouvreur...Large parts of Madama
Butterfly...Andrea Chenier...Cavalleria Rusticana.>>

>Yeah, I know just what you mean: there's just
> something about ravishingly beautiful music
> that really turns me off, too. I can really relate
> to you.
>~ Roger

Ain't it awful??? :-)))))

Leonard Tillman  

Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jun 30, 2004, 8:04:40 PM6/30/04
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From: donna...@REMOVEbrixton.fsworld.co.uk (La Donna Mobile)

"Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico"
<tapef...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1061-40E...@storefull-3333.bay.webtv.net...

" Same here, Roger! How can anyone STAND that ravishingly gorgeous
music, anyway? All that "passione" gunk! Who needs that proletarian
garbage?? Basta, we say!!!!!
Yeah!
LT "

From: comes...@hotmail.com
David7Gable wrote:
<< I can't take... Adriana Lecouvreur...Large parts of Madama
Butterfly...Andrea Chenier...Cavalleria Rusticana.>>

>Yeah, I know just what you mean: there's just
> something about ravishingly beautiful music
> that really turns me off, too. I can really relate
> to you.
>~ Roger

>Leonard Tillman
-------------------------------------------

>I have to confess to having a strange problem
> specifically with the Intermezzo from Cav. I
> am incredibly familiar with it having it on all
> sorts of compilations, and it tends to get
> overused as background etc music; I even
> have it with words.

Ever hear John McCormack's very beautiful version?
--I think it was accompanied by the legendary violinist/composer Fritz
Kreisler.

>Sometimes I really love it; sometimes I hear it
> begin and think 'oh no, it's that whiny tune'.
> This bears no relation to version and is
> entirely abitrary. OTOH, I always like the
> Easter Hymn, although it only dawned on me
> recently that it is somewhat influenced by Va
> pensiero.

I love both selections, but is this true - about the connection between
them?
It seems plausible to me, now that you mention this, that Mascagni had
some of Verdi's style in mind, but it really hadn't occurred to me till
now.

Leonard Tillman  

David7Gable

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Jun 30, 2004, 10:12:29 PM6/30/04
to
>God forbid a tenor should add a heartfelt sob, we can crucify
>him! Sheesh - musica senza sentimento - that's what the snobs would dictate
>to us mere mortals...

Is this more paranoia from you, Don Paolo. Nobody has dictated that YOU can't
like snobs. But you routinely attack Grandpa Dave for having the temerity to
express his dislike. Unfortunately, you also seem to subscribe to Tillman's
unfortunate and convenient definition of snobbery: daring to dislike anything
Tillman likes. Do you honestly believe a dislike of sobbing tenors is nothing
but snobbery?

For the record, I don't have a blanket policy on sobs: for me it depends on
who sobs when.

-david gable

David7Gable

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Jun 30, 2004, 10:48:04 PM6/30/04
to
>Is this more paranoia from you, Don Paolo. Nobody has dictated that YOU
>can't
>like snobs.

What a blunder. I meant to say "that YOU can't like sobs."

-david gable

Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jun 30, 2004, 11:09:24 PM6/30/04
to
David7G, the Projector, projects:

>Is this more paranoia from you, Don Paolo.

Projecting again, eh?

It would be difficult for "more paranioa", you hackneyed,
Silvermanurian, repetitious parrot, to be issued when there was none to
begin with from Don Paolo, nor from anyone else but you - difficult as
that is for you to digest.

> Nobody has dictated that YOU can't like
> snobs.

That was not the issue. Don Paolo never complained that he was
"prevented from liking snobs". (Good Heavens! Can you read, at all?)

>But you routinely attack Grandpa Dave for
> having the temerity to express his dislike.

He does not "routinely attack" GPD nor anyone else, and "expressing
GPD's dislike" was not DP's objection. Why don't you stop lying, Gable?
And learn to read, before you blunder as you do - assuming it's merely
your misunderstanding.

> Unfortunately, you also seem to subscribe to
> Tillman's unfortunate and convenient
> definition of snobbery: daring to dislike
> anything Tillman likes.

That is not *my* definition of snobbery, you accusatory twit. Moreover,
*your* unfortunate, convenient and stupid definition of "ignorance/lack
of taste" is anyone's daring to dislike anything that gable likes.
(You're quite welcome for my unsnarling of your distortions, btw.)

Perhaps you need to "subcribe" to Children's Digest®, watch Romper
Room reruns, or enroll in kindergarten, that you may belatedly begin to
learn the basics of reading the English language - don't look to our
SS-chief: He may be more challenged than you are. And that's saying
quite of bit. -QUITE a bit.

>Do you honestly believe a dislike of sobbing
> tenors is nothing but snobbery?

No. We do believe, though, that telling others what they must like or
dislike - with the said or insinuated claim of "classlessness" on their
parts, should they dare disagree, - is a blatant form of snobbery,
whether you admit it or not.

>For the record, I don't have a blanket policy on
> sobs: for me it depends on who sobs when.

Good. Then, for the record, give up your "widdle blankie" policy on
whining, too - while you're at it.

If sobbing and whining could be set to music, you'd be RMO's Nelson and
Jeanette. "When I'm calling yoooooooo -oooo- oooo -ooo....."
:-)))

Leonard Tillman  

Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jun 30, 2004, 11:59:43 PM6/30/04
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From: david...@aol.com (David7Gable)

No, - Actually, your blunder was in presuming yet again to accuse
another poster of paranoia without the rather necessary benefit of
knowing what the Heckity-Heck you're talking about. :-)))

As to the "snob" substitution, well.....you PREFER snobs to sobs, so
this was either a "Freudian slip" or a pair of "Jungian Jockey®
Shorts". Your choice.

Leonard Tillman  

Charlie Handelman

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Jul 1, 2004, 10:05:29 AM7/1/04
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I am always proud to enjoy the ugliness but excitement of a Mario Filippeschi(I
was WEANED on his William Tell on Cetra..we played, "Oggi fataaaaaaaal" all
day)..and I love to hear Fedora and Adriana..and have no problem saying that I
fall asleep with Chamber Music..I am giving all my baroque stuff to a young
musician who can appreciate it..I have no fear of being called a peasant..i
love music enough to know what I am about.....
I can adore my RING...my Pfitzner and Schoenberg and mahler and even shlocky
Tchaikowsky and Beethoven and Poulenc...that is not really being a peasant..I
just cannot stand String Quartets and Brandenburg Concerti..so KILL ME....
I would rather see Bela Lugosi in "Devil Bat" than see "Citizen Kane."

you no like it...tough spaghetti.


Why can't we be honest..and why worry about the snobs?????CH

Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jul 1, 2004, 10:55:21 AM7/1/04
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From: plac...@aol.comnojunk (Charlie Handelman)

>I am always proud to enjoy the ugliness but
> excitement of a Mario Filippeschi(I was
> WEANED on his William Tell on Cetra..we
> played, "Oggi fataaaaaaaal" all day).

I like Filippeschi, also because he was the Duke in the first-ever opera
I saw - the '46 Gobbi-Rigoletto film. While no match for Pav's Arnoldo,
his was excellent too, and my initial Tell album.

>I would rather see Bela Lugosi in "Devil Bat"
> than see "Citizen Kane."

Was there a combo of the two? - "Citizen Lugosi" or "Bela Kane"? In
which did he refer to "Keelehr Bahts"?

>you no like it...tough spaghetti.

That's called "Al Dente". Usually preferred.

>Why can't we be honest..and why worry about
> the snobs?????CH

They have enough flaws to cope with, one of which is called "Paranoia".
They think we want to "get them". Why would we WANT them?

 

Leonard Tillman  

GRNDPADAVE

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Jul 1, 2004, 11:17:10 AM7/1/04
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>From: plac...@aol.comnojunk (Charlie Handelman)
>Date: 07/01/2004 9:05 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20040701100529...@mb-m28.aol.com>
~~~~~~~
Hey, Charlie, try Schubert's Death and the Maiden Quartet or Beethoven's
Quartet #8 (the last movement will surprise you with a melody also found in
Boris Godunov) -- you might feel differently about chamber music.

Either of these works I prefer to Parsifal. (Talk about snoozing...)

==G/P Dave

Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jul 1, 2004, 4:15:01 PM7/1/04
to

There are operas that, when actually heard -
or seen as well, - can be quite enjoyable, once focused upon and some
familiarity is gained.

But some of us simply don't "gravitate" toward these works due to such
matters as the works' length, their rarity or seldomness of performance,
and/or their dearth of available recordings.

Any candidates in mind?

Leonard Tillman  

Alan Watkins

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Jul 1, 2004, 4:46:39 PM7/1/04
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The late Alan Taylor, wonderful timpanist of the Royal Opera House
Orchestra, London, used to say that his favourite part was La
Sonnambula.

You are only in the overture which lasts for about three and a bit
minutes. After that you go home.

And get principal rate:):)

However, you earn your money in Janacek/Strauss/Wagner among others so
it is what, I believe, is called "swings and roundabouts".

Verdi was a very poor writer for the timpani but that, of course, does
not take away the overall effect of his works although I do feel
Macbeth was a missed chance for almost everyone. I expected a much
more dramatic score never having heard the work before and I thought
the Witches Scene was thrown away. The best part seemed to go to the
man with the dry ice machine.

However, I give them all my best shot which is all you can do. You
can only go with what you are given.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

donpaolo

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Jul 1, 2004, 6:50:06 PM7/1/04
to
What are you - the resident Dr. Phil? I stand by what I stated - "musica
senza sentimento". You & your partner don't like Tucker, Gigli, Corelli, or
the other "Italians" who add a sob, don't listen. I don't care. But, I
would agree that it does depend on who/when/circumstance; nor do I have a
"blanket policy" on sobs. On high notes, YES; sobs, no.

DonPaolo
"David7Gable" <david...@aol.com> wrote in message
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donpaolo

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Jul 1, 2004, 6:51:25 PM7/1/04
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Well, sobs are much, much, much more preferable!

DonP.


"David7Gable" <david...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20040630224804...@mb-m22.aol.com...

David7Gable

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Jul 1, 2004, 8:55:12 PM7/1/04
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>You & your partner don't like Tucker, Gigli, Corelli, or
>the other "Italians" who add a sob, don't listen.

Where on earth did you ever get the idea I don't like Tucker or Corelli?
Unlike Ed, I think Tucker sounded better in 1950 than in 1970, but that's
hardly a dismissive opinion. (For me the returns are still out on Gigli.)

-david gable

comes...@hotmail.com

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Jul 2, 2004, 12:25:10 AM7/2/04
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CH wrote:
<<I would rather see Bela Lugosi in "Devil Bat" than to see "Citizen
Kane."

Yeah, I know what you mean. There's just something about brilliant,
innovative, intensely compelling films like "Citizen Kane" that really
turns me off, too.
I'd also rather watch childish crap like "Attack of the Killer
Tomatoes"
or "Gigli"(no relation to The Gigli) than to watch classics like "All
About Eve", "Barry Lyndon" "African Queen" "It's A Wonderful Life", etc.

Jack Hamilton

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Jul 2, 2004, 1:09:46 AM7/2/04
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Werther

Lear


==
Jack Hamilton
j...@acm.org

==
In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted comfort and security.
And in the end, they lost it all - freedom, comfort and security.
Edward Gibbons

Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jul 2, 2004, 2:16:02 AM7/2/04
to
Moses und Aron
Gotterdamerung
Parsifal
Siegfried
Nixon in China
---------------------------

Leonard Tillman  

Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jul 2, 2004, 9:42:48 AM7/2/04
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Amistad.

Leonard Tillman  

A Tsar Is Born

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Jul 2, 2004, 5:54:20 PM7/2/04
to
Butterfly, but as it's been thirty years, I think I'd be willing to
see it again. It was Leontyne Price, last time I saw it....

Wagner's Rienzi (worst opera Meyerbeer ever wrote)

Pelleas et Melisande (it's been 20 years for that one)

Gluck's Orfeo -- the music's okay, but the libretto is awful

Ghosts of Versailles

The Great Gatsby

Romeo et Juliette (Gounod's nadir)

===========================

On the other hand:
Good operas I would like to see barred from the repertory for ten
years or until someone comes along who can sing them properly:

Traviata

Tosca

Turandot

Aida

Cav/Pag

----------
Hans Lick

OmbraRecds

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Jul 2, 2004, 9:08:46 PM7/2/04
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>Subject: Re: Unfavorite operas

Parsifal
Boheme
Cosi
Of Mice and Men
The Mother of Us All

PCB

Aage Johansen

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Jul 3, 2004, 11:26:36 AM7/3/04
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Valfer wrote:

> ...
> I've seen some rather robust "Butterlies" in my time. They turn me
> off to the opera as soon as they step onstage in Act I, high Db or
> not. By the time they get to the "Quindici netti, netti" line, I'm
> ready to leave.


And I've seen some robust tenors in "Il Trovatore". However, I'd still
look forward to see this opera. And the singers would be very bad if I
were to leave early.


--
Aage J.

Mitchell Kaufman

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Jul 3, 2004, 12:14:07 PM7/3/04
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Aage Johansen <aagj...@online.no> wrote:

> And I've seen some robust tenors in "Il Trovatore". However, I'd still
> look forward to see this opera. And the singers would be very bad if I
> were to leave early.

In all the time I've attended Met performances, I've left early exactly
once: Ernani with Leona Mitchell and Ermanno Mauro in 1985. Words cannot
adequately describe the utter dreadfulness of the singing. Ernani isn't
exactly gripping stuff with bad voices. Pablo Elvira was in the cast
also, but no one could save this dog. Woof! Woof!

Now that's not to say I haven't heard equally bad singing in other
performances. It's just that the gestalt of this one has in my
experience never been approached in its overwhelming putridosity.

Mitchell had a pretty lyric voice as a young singer, but critics (and no
doubt others) seem to have convinced her that she was the second coming
of Leontyne Price. Not quite.

MK

Andrew T. Kay

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Jul 3, 2004, 3:52:16 PM7/3/04
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Mitchell Kaufman wrote:

[Leona]

>Mitchell had a pretty lyric voice as a young singer, but critics (and no
>doubt others) seem to have convinced her that she was the second coming
>of Leontyne Price. Not quite.

She's not a singer whose work and career I know well, and on the basis of the
little I've heard, Elvira in _Ernani_ sounds like a very poor choice for her.
(Frankly, it was a hard day's work even for Famous Original Leontyne.) However,
I found her an affecting Liu in the _Turandot_ video.


--Todd K

Leonard Tillman - Bello Ebraico

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Jul 3, 2004, 4:03:58 PM7/3/04
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From: lastredl...@aol.com (Andrew T. Kay)

Re Leona Mitchell:

>She's not a singer whose work and career I
> know well, and on the basis of the little I've
> heard, Elvira in _Ernani_ sounds like a very
> poor choice for her. (Frankly, it was a hard
> day's work even for Famous Original
> Leontyne.) However, I found her an affecting
> Liu in the _Turandot_ video.

Most of her best work was in the lyric rep, but she was a fine
Forza-Leonora in the early '80s with Bergonzi, Mines, Morris, and
Bacquier at the Met. Her's wasn't as *big and dramatic* a voice as
Leontyne's, but comparable in sheer beauty, IMO.

Leonard Tillman  

Mitchell Kaufman

unread,
Jul 3, 2004, 4:55:04 PM7/3/04
to
Andrew T. Kay <lastredl...@aol.com> wrote:

> She's not a singer whose work and career I know well, and on the basis of
> the little I've heard, Elvira in _Ernani_ sounds like a very poor choice
> for her. (Frankly, it was a hard day's work even for Famous Original
> Leontyne.) However, I found her an affecting Liu in the _Turandot_ video.

Elvira was actually Price's least good Verdi role, at least in my
estimation (followed closely by Amelia). The '62 Met broadcast reveals
her problems even at that early date with the low register, and the
voice sounds a tad small for the part (yes Ed/Charlie, I know, I know).
Actually, she's well-matched to Bergonzi (and always was), but *both*
sound a bit overparted here to me. As for sheer vocal lusciousness --
admittedly a subjective criterion -- I can't remotely place Mitchell in
the class of Price.

Yes, Liú was a role within the grasp of the young Mitchell. But how
about--sitting down?--Turandot? (Yes, she sang it.) Nor was she suited
to the Verdi roles she took on, or the likes of Butterfly, Tosca, or
numerous other miscalculations.

That's another virtue Price possessed which Mitchell lacked: good
judgement.

MK

David7Gable

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Jul 3, 2004, 5:11:57 PM7/3/04
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>That's another virtue Price possessed which Mitchell lacked: good
>judgement.
>

They also shared a problem: a similar species of poor throaty vocal production
that shortened their careers. Price was fond of saying, "Sing on the interest,
not the capital." She also said that you only had so many performances in the
throat. Not true if your vocal production is better than hers was. Mitchell's
production was bad in ways similar to Price's only worse.

-david gable

David7Gable

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Jul 3, 2004, 5:13:41 PM7/3/04
to
>Elvira in _Ernani_ sounds like a very poor choice for her.
>(Frankly, it was a hard day's work even for Famous Original Leontyne.)

Yeah, but Price was extremely well suited to early and middle period Verdi
temperamentally, most emphatically including Ernani.

-david gable

Mitchell Kaufman

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Jul 3, 2004, 5:24:30 PM7/3/04
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David7Gable <david...@aol.com> wrote:

> They also shared a problem: a similar species of poor throaty vocal
> production that shortened their careers.

Price had a short career? Don't forget, she sang for almost a
quarter-century at the Met (her debut *there* almost ten years *after*
she first gained notice as Bess in the touring company w/Warfield and
Cab Calloway), and for more than a few years after *that* in concert and
recital. I'd conservatively place her career in the 40-year range,
although I suppose, David, you might want to claim her useful vocal
shelf life was seven months.

> Price was fond of saying, "Sing on the interest,not the capital." She


> also said that you only had so many performances in the throat. Not true
> if your vocal production is better than hers was.

Oh, it's always true. No one goes on singing forever in exactly the same
way, especially if they're still at it in their 50's and 60's. I believe
Price had a very accomplished technique; Minnie, which precipitated her
1961 vocal crisis, was a rare miscalculation, and I feel she learned
from the mistake. The fact that she lacked voice in the low notes could
also have been an accident of nature, not necessarily faulty technique.
"Throatiness?" It's more a dark, dusky quality to my ears. I think it's
sexy.

> Mitchell's production was bad in ways similar to Price's only worse.

Mitchell also made super-humungous mistakes (as I've already
enumerated), and lacked Price's great gift.

MK

David7Gable

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Jul 3, 2004, 6:54:50 PM7/3/04
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>Oh, it's always true. No one goes on singing forever in exactly the same
>way,

That's true, but there are means of vocal production that shorten singers'
careers and means of vocal production that lengthen them.

-david gable

Andrew T. Kay

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Jul 3, 2004, 8:09:41 PM7/3/04
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I agree with this, and I like her performance on the RCA set of the opera,
which is the only place I've encountered it. It's only that her Elvira makes me
more conscious (than the other four Verdi roles she kept in her repertoire) of
her being taxed by low-lying passages, of really having to toil to pull it off
here and there, of "managing" rather than truly commanding the music (as I
believe she does in what I consider her best Verdi role, the _Forza_ Leonora --
I even consider her second studio recording of that part, with Levine, a major
performance, dusky lower register and all).


--Todd K

Andrew T. Kay

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Jul 3, 2004, 8:11:28 PM7/3/04
to
Mitchell Kaufman wrote:

>Yes, Liú was a role within the grasp of the young Mitchell. But how
>about--sitting down?--Turandot? (Yes, she sang it.)

Sigh. What is it about good Liús that makes them so eager to "graduate"? ...

--Todd K

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