What exactly is a `real` Verdi soprano?
TColl65159
Abigaille, Odabella,Lady Macbeth,Aida at the other, by way of
Desdemona,Elisabeth di Valois,Maria Boccanegra etc. (not chronologically of
course) what exactly is a "real" Verdi soprano that has been discussed herre
recently?
Nilsson, Rysanek (`Real` Wagner sopranos as ever were!) have sung in Verdi.
Handelmann tells us that L.Price is not a Verdi soprano!!! M.Price a `real`
Strauss/ Mozart singer ventured into Verdi. can anyone enlighten me?
Trev(UK)looking forward to
Operatunenity
of range, dynamics and vocal color including the the use of chest voice which
enables a singer to execute a major Verdi role in the manner that Verdi wrote.
The key difference that distinguishes it from other styles is range of
dynamics.Trills, coloratura and other ornamentation as well as extreme range
exists in other styles.Chest voice exists in Verismo even to a greater degree
than in Verdi. A very large voice that can blow the walls down and bring that
same voice down to a pianissimo has the dynamic range to sing Verdi. That is
why a Verdi singer needs a large voice. Verdi wanted delicacy, but he wanted
bigger than life moments too. Vocally and technically, a Verdi singer has to
have it all. No wonder there aren't many Verdi singers around.
CharlesHandelman
As ever,Charlie
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/handelmania
Karen Mercedes
Actually, I think the answer depends on which Verdi operas you're
considering. The "real" Verdi soprano who would sing Violetta and Leonora
in TROVATORE is not necessarily going to be the same "real" Verdi soprano
who sings Aida and Leonora in LA FORZA DEL DESTINO, and that "real" Verdi
soprano may be different, again, from the "real" Verdi soprano who sings
Desdemona, the one who sings Gilda, or the one who sings Lady Macbeth.
Here's what I think - we tend to generalize about "Verdi singers" based on
the demands of Verdi's most dramatic works. Obviously, the Verdi baritone
who sings a lovely lyrical Germont, Posa, and even di Luna need not also
be able to conjure up the blood and guts for Iago and Macbeth. This isn't
to say there might not be one baritone who can do justice to all these
roles (and several have) - but the roles ARE in different _fachs_, which
implies that different singers may be able to specialise in the more
lyrical roles and not do justice to the more dramatic ones, and vice
versa. The same is true of Verdi sopranos - possibly moreso. I have yet
to hear a soprano who could manage both Gilda and Lady Macbeth and make me
want to hear (and believe in) both. The two are at opposite ends of the
_fach_ spectrum - so far apart that even a phenom like Sutherland or
Callas couldn't manage them both.
To my ear, the soprano who sings Gilda will also be able to sing Norina,
Olympia, and Donna Elvira.
The soprano who sings Violetta and Trovatore's Leonora will also be able
to sing Gounod's Marguerite, Lucia, possibly even Norma and the Donizetti
queens.
The soprano who sings Desdemona will also be able to sing Mimi, Antonia in
Hoffmann, Tatiana, Juliette, and Nedda.
The soprano who sings Leonora in La Forza and Aida will also be able to
sing at least Gioconda, Ellen Orford, and Manon Lescaut, if not Turandot
and Senta.
The soprano who sings Lady Macbeth needs to be comfortable in a slightly
lower tessitura. She could also comfortably manage Santuzza, Giulietta in
Hoffmann, even Fricka.
That's just my take on it.
KM
=====
My NEIL SHICOFF Website:
http://www.radix.net/~dalila/shicoff/shicoff.html
My Website:
http://www.radix.net/~dalila/index.html
-----
We're sitting in the opera house;
We're waiting for the curtain to arise
With wonders for our eyes,
A feeling of expectancy,
A certain kind of ecstasy,
Expectancy and ecstasy....Sh's's's.
- Charles Ives
OmbraRecds
>want to hear (and believe in) both. The two are at opposite ends of the
>_fach_ spectrum - so far apart that even a phenom like Sutherland or
>Callas couldn't manage them both.
Callas couldn't manage Gilda and Lady Macbeth? Hmmmmm.
Patrick Byrne
Matthew B. Tepper
ck1.aol.com>:
>>manage both Gilda and Lady Macbeth and make me want to hear (and believe
>>in) both. The two are at opposite ends of the_fach_ spectrum - so far
>>apart that even a phenom like Sutherland or Callas couldn't manage them
>>both.
>
>Callas couldn't manage Gilda and Lady Macbeth? Hmmmmm.
Not on consecutive days, which led to her problems with Bing.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
"Compassionate Conservatism?" * "Tight Slacks?" * "Jumbo Shrimp?"
Tartufo dalba
"The "real" Verdi soprano who would sing Violetta and Leonora in TROVATORE is
not necessarily going to be the same "real" Verdi soprano who sings Aida and
Leonora in LA FORZA DEL DESTINO, and that "real" Verdi."
====================
You might want to mention this to Rosa Ponselle.
Regards,
TDA
Christina West
news:Pine.SV4.3.96.101021...@saltmine.radix.net...
>. I have yet to hear a soprano who could manage both Gilda and Lady
> Macbeth and make me want to hear (and believe in) both. The two
> are at opposite ends of the _fach_ spectrum - so far apart that even
> a phenom like Sutherland or Callas couldn't manage them both.
Well, Karen, as you know, Sutherland never sang Lady M., so we'll never know
that for sure. But I doubt if the role would have been congenial for her.
Callas of course sang both roles. Her Lady M. is generally recognised as a
very fine portrayal, if not /the/ definitive interpretation, even by those
who are not otherwise Callas enthusiasts.
Her Gilda is more controversial. Personally, I think it's wonderful, not
just the studio recording with Gobbi and Di Stefano, but even more so the
live 1952 from Mexico. The latter is let down, however, by the really bad
Rigoletto (Campolonghi), di Stefano on one of his bad nights, and the
incredibly loud prompter.
Not everyone's idea of a Gilda, probably. But it's surprising how often new
recordings of 'Rigoletto' are compared unfavourably to the very old studio
set - not just pro Callas, of course, but pro Gobbi, too.
Callas sang on stage all the Verdi operas that were in general performance
repertoire during her career - Rig., Trov., and Trav., Ballo, Don Carlos,
Aida, Forza, plus important revivals of the lesser-known Vespri, Nabucco and
Macbeth. She covered excerps from Otello, Il Corsaro, I Lombardi, Aroldo,
Attila and Ernani on disc. Of course, I wouldn't suggest that all her
assumptions are equally successful. But many of them, particularly the
complete recordings, are generally considered pretty much the real deal.
And of course, Tebaldi sang all the same standard Verdi roles that Callas
did, with the exception of Gilda, but with the addition of Desdemona, one of
her finest recorded performances. And made her contibution to the early
Verdi revival stakes with her 'Giovanna d'Arco'. A very different singer,
but an equally fine one. She lacked Callas's dramatic thrust and technical
ability, buy compensated with an intelligence, a vocal beauty and
resplendent tone that Callas by the intrinsic qualityof her voice could
never achieve.
So - a 'real' Verdi soprano is a Teballass, I guess....:)
Christina
Christina West
xi...@ukgateway.net
OmbraRecds
I like her estranged sister, Callabaldi better. She gives me a trill. Something
povera could never do.
Patrick Byrne
agathe
"> The "real" Verdi soprano who would sing Violetta and Leonora
> in TROVATORE is not necessarily going to be the same "real" Verdi soprano
> who sings Aida and Leonora in LA FORZA DEL DESTINO, and that "real" Verdi
> soprano may be different, again, from the "real" Verdi soprano who sings
> Desdemona, the one who sings Gilda, or the one who sings Lady Macbeth
As a matter of fact Leonora in Il Trovatore is a dramatic soprano/dramatic
coloratura role
Lady Macbeth is a dramatic soprano/dramatic coloratura role, sometimes
performed by a Dramatic Mezzo with a good top
or a big Mezzo Coloratura, someone who would perform Eboli.
I have yet to hear a soprano who could manage both Gilda and Lady Macbeth
and make me
> want to hear (and believe in) both. The two are at opposite ends of the
> _fach_ spectrum - so far apart that even a phenom like Sutherland or
> Callas couldn't manage them both.
Callas managed them both and really well.
> To my ear, the soprano who sings Gilda will also be able to sing Norina,
Olympia, and Donna Elvira.
How do you know that? Gilda is meant for a light coloratura and Donna Elvira
is a young dramatic/spinto role, maybe a full lyric and sometimes sung by a
mezzo!
> The soprano who sings Violetta and Trovatore's Leonora will also be able
> to sing Gounod's Marguerite, Lucia, possibly even Norma and the Donizetti
> queens.
The difference between Violetta and Leonora is that Leonora should survive
over huge ensembles.
It is a really long role and needs a heavier voice (in fact I believe
Violetta should have a big voice, as well).
She has to be on stage for long and has to have enough energy for the end.
Just for the stamina it demands,
Leonora cannot be compared with Marguerite. I think Norma is a good
equivalent.
Ghena Dimitrova was a fantastic Leonora and she has a huge Turandot voice.
> The soprano who sings Leonora in La Forza and Aida will also be able to
> sing at least Gioconda, Ellen Orford, and Manon Lescaut, if not Turandot
> and Senta.
The soprano who sings Lady Macbeth needs to be comfortable in a slightly
> lower tessitura. She could also comfortably manage Santuzza, Giulietta in
> Hoffmann, even Fricka.
Aida was a late Verdi role and needs more of a Wagnerian weight.
Gioconda and Santuzza are two verismo roles. Santuzza is performed by
mezzos - Gioconda has
exposed top notes but it is not an extremely high role (just at the very
end), again needs more of a Wagnerian weight.
Both roles need dramatic sopranos.
Lady Macbeth does not have a low tessitura. Please take a look at her first
and her final aria.
It needs three voices: a dramatic coloratura for the firsta aria, a mezzoish
voice for the second and a lyric voice for the third.
How did you come up with Fricka????
Agathe
Opaffic
>is a young dramatic/spinto role, maybe a full lyric and sometimes sung by a
>mezzo!
Exactly why I was aghast when NYCO cast the lovely light soprano Amy Burton as
Elvira.
TColl65159
The soprano who sings Leonora in La Forza and Aida will also be able to
sing at least Gioconda, Ellen Orford, and Manon Lescaut, if not Turandot
and Senta.>>
...or Josephine Barstow as she is called!!!
about take on the Countess in Queen of Spades. True she didn`t do
Gioconda,Manon Lescaut or Turandot (although she recorded the Alfano ending)
but she also encompassed Amelia in Ballo, several Janacek roles,etc etc. So is
she a real versi soprano?
Trev(UK)
ElMancho
This is wrong! Elvira is NOT a dramatic/spinto role. It's MOZART for God's
sake! It was written in the late 18th century with a relatively small
orchestra compared to late Verdi and Wagner.
And the instruments of that day were not exactly the same bombastic brass of
the 19th and 20th centuries.
This is a very common misconception about Elvira. It has just become standard
practice in the 20th century to cast it with a heavier voice because of the
character. It can be done equally well with a lighter or heavier voice.
Opaffic
Interesting....do you feel the same way about Donna Anna? Elettra?
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 02/17/2001 11:45 AM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010217124530...@ng-mi1.aol.com>
Verdi's Elvira is in ERNANI.
There is no such thing as a "Verdi soprano" since Verdi wrote for many
different voices: Abigaille, Lady Macbeth, Gilda, Violetta, Leonora (3 of them
-- all different -- [there's one in OBERTO]), Alice, Nannetta, Oscar, Amelia.
As far as Mozart's Donna Elvira is concerned, the sina qua non is a voice that
has an enormous range. Mozart parodies this sometimes nag by making her sing
very low notes, particularly in "Ah che me dice mai".
The best Elvira I've heard is Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, although I am also partial
to Lisa della Casa and Leontyne Price.
Mozart doesn't stint on the instrumentation in DON GIOVANNI. The first banquet
scene employs 3 stage bands in addition to the orchestra.
What gorgeous music abounds in this masterpiece with nary a tenorial high C to
distract the listener.
==G/P Dave
agathe
What about Donna Anna or Elettra in Idomeno?
Are they meant for both light and heavy voices?
How would a light Donna Elvira stand next to a heavy Donna Anna?
A young dramatic/spinto can pull back and the effect will be magnificent.
A light soprano cannot serve Donna Elvira's music at its best.
Who says that Mozart doesn't not need big voices for certain roles?
Leave the light voices for Suzzanas and Cherubinos etc
Opaffic
>banquet
>scene employs 3 stage bands in addition to the orchestra.
Right on Dave....tell the baritone in that final scene that the instrumentation
is light.
Amy Burton should be sing Zerlina, NOT ELVIRA!
Andre Edouard
Oh, I'm sorry...I couldn't abstain.
Andre....abashed.
GRNDPADAVE
>Date: 02/17/2001 12:17 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <20010217131759...@ng-xa1.aol.com>
While not Elvira, I thought Sizanne Danco did a marvelous job as Donna Anna on
the Krips recording.
A light-voiced Elvira might wqork, but I think we'd lose some of Mozart's comic
inflections.
Elvira is a cross between the Countess Almaviva and Katisha: therein, I
believe, lies both the pathos and the humor.
By the way, I think Mozart created the greatest women in all opera. Who needs
tenors when you have Dorabella, Pamina, Papagena, Constanze, Barbarina, et al.
They'd all be welcome to reside in my musical seraglio.
:>)) G/P Dave
Andre Edouard
I think you have just committed an act of "Lese Dom Tomasso."
Andre
Operafan
"TColl65159" <tcoll...@aol.com> escreveu na mensagem
news:20010217124327...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
Skip
"ElMancho" <elma...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Enrique Eskenazi
her interpretations in Gerusalemme, Due Foscari, Battaglia di Legnano, as
well as in Trovatore, Forza or Aida are deservedly legendary.
Regards
---
Enrique
eske...@teleline.es
Cub driver
Joyce Guyer is a delightful Elvira in the current Met L'Italiana.
all the best - Dan Ford (email: use...@danford.net)
Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault & the American Volunteer Group
http://www.danford.net/book.htm
"War history as it should be written." (The Hook)
Brian Newhouse
Opaffic wrote:
> > It can be done equally well with a lighter or heavier voice.
>
> Interesting....do you feel the same way about Donna Anna? Elettra?
I don't pretend to speak for Opaffic. But Mozart's relatively light yet
active orchestra tolerates a wider range of vocal weight in any given
role than does, say, Wagner's or Puccini's or even Verdi's.
That being said, vocal weight in Mozart, as in Gluck or Handel, doesn't
just depend on the size of the orchestra at any given moment. It also
depends on how much sustained singing a singer has to do at the extremes
of the given tessitura of a role. What makes the role of Donna Elvira
unsuitable for a light soprano such as Amy Burton, IMNSHO, is that Donna
Elvira has to sing a fair amount of declamatory stuff that stays right
at the top of the staff, around G and A flat--which after a while
suddenly dips through an octave and a half or so to the D above middle C
or so, and then goes back up again. (This happens in both "Ah, che mi
dice mai" and "Mi tradi". For that matter, think of her swooping in and
around the legato of Anna & Ottavio in the masker's trio.) This is
where a voice needs a sturdy middle to be heard all the way down as well
as up.
You get the same sort of vocal writing, only still more extreme, in
Fiordiligi's music; and it's only a step (a whole step, if that) to the
full-fledged dramatics of Elettra and Vitellia. And none of these roles
have the high-coloratura vocal fireworks of a Konstanze or a Queen of
the Night; Vitellia _does_ touch a high D toward the end of her
first-act trio, but none of her other music goes above B flat IIRC, and
her virtuoso showpieces, notably "Non piu de' fiori", are just about in
mezzo territory. (Had Mozart a couple of years to polish *La clemenza di
Tito*, I suspect he would have written that high D out!)
Donna Anna, on the other hand, could profitably be cast with a
_lighter_-voiced singer than the hoch-dramatische Wagneriennes who have
become positively customary. It's true "Or sai che l'onore" is one of
those declamatory up-and-down arias that profit from a sturdy
middle--though it isn't even so much so as any of Donna Elvira's; but
"Non mi dir" is high and florid; and in the ensembles Anna sings so
often _with_ Ottavio that the two really should be of equal
weight--otherwise Ottavio just sort of wimps out. What I would prefer
to hear in Donna Anna's music is a high, brilliant sort of
dramatic-coloratura soprano. Joan Sutherland got it just about right.
I thought Lauren Flanigan did, too, when I heard her Donna Anna at
Glimmerglass back in 1995.
Opaffic
to read your thoughts.
Sam Belich
to do with the size of the voice? This was the time of the castrati! Their
voices must have been huge. A Man belting in that register! Can you
imagine that? I would assume that the women that were able to sing would
have had to have voices that were able to capture the audiences ears. Ears
attuned THOSE voices! Plus all the noise that went with public opera houses
of the time! Why do we assume that voices suddenly got "big" with Verdi and
Wagner? I find it incredibly shortsighted to think this. Have a great day,
Ciao, Sam
Brian Newhouse <newh...@crisp.net> wrote in message
news:3A90147D...@crisp.net...
Sam Belich
Listen to the pirate recordings from the 70's - mid-80's. Such power to
ride over any size orchestra! Which I witnessed when she sang La Gioconda
at the Met. And the agility, listen to her singing of Donna Anna's music or
Abigaille, also there is a fantastic Aida, both Leonora's, Desdemona, and
Elisabetta in Don Carlo. Also Ballo! There was a planned Lady Macbeth that
went down the tubes at the MET for some reason.... This could have been the
voice of the century!
Enrique Eskenazi <eske...@teleline.es> wrote in message
news:96nrg9$7o7$2...@diana.bcn.ttd.net...
Skip
Totally wrong sound and movement in the voice.
"Sam Belich" <all...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:96r3qr$1ml$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
Sam Belich
Francisco? It was incredible! Have you seen the Nabucco video? None of
this can be measured along side the singing of the last ten years. The
voice travels a different path here. Have you heard or seen the video of
the Tosca from Manila? Just curious.
Skip <sk...@nospam.com.nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Zy8k6.1013$uj.1...@typhoon.nyc.rr.com...
Skip
Verdi voice. The basic sound of the voice is very slavic in nature, too
metalic, Verdi requires a true Italianate voice.... As much as I enjoy
Marton, its just is not a Verdi voice.
Dimitrova, Sintow, have simular voices, but not quite right for Verdi.
In the last 20 years, there has been a shortage of great Verdi
soprano's.......
Don't get me wrong, I truly enjoy Marton.news:96r8pg$ckd$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
Skip
Yes to all the videos....... It still is not what one would call a true
Verdi voice. The basic sound of the voice is very slavic in nature, too
metalic, Verdi requires a true Italianate voice.... As much as I enjoy
Dimitrova, Sintow, have simular voices, but not quite right for Verdi.
soprano's.......
Don't get me wrong, I truly enjoy Marton.
"Sam Belich" <all...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:96r8pg$ckd$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
Operatunenity
Fiordiligi, Elvira, and Donna Anna, yet I think her voice would be too small
for Violetta in Traviata or Leonora in Trovatore. The orchestration is too
heavy in Verdi for that kind of voice. Maybe a Gilda, or an
Oscar, but the big heavy duty Verdi soprano roles, I think not. Also in regards
to size of orchestra vesus size of voice, it has as much to do with how the
intruments are orchestrated as well the number of insrtuments playing,
especially during the fortissimo parts as well as the more transparent and
delicate parts. No way could Eleanor Steber (Whom I adore) sing the Act 2
concertato in Aida. One of the hall marks of romantic music is extremes of
volume and contrast. Mozart is classical. Verdi is romantic. The difference is
volume. A good Verdi soprano can sing a pianissimo, but a good Mozart soprano
cannot make her voice any bigger than it is and could not compete with the
fortissimo of a Verdi soprano. The Italian style which exploits most the
different vocal colors in female voices, including chest voice is just as
neccessary in a Fiordiligi as it is in Leonora from Trovatore I
assume that theaters got bigger and bigger as opera became more popular, and
stylistically, romantic music evolved with heavier orchestration. We can thank
Beethoven for this. I don't think it was that suddenly voices got big, it was
that the ones that were there were needed more to fill out the the Verdi roles
which were designed to be performed in bigger spaces. I do not doubt that the
castrati had the biggest voices of all. With romantic opera "big" was in again
but without the castrati. The pendulum always swings back and forth with what
is fashionable and what is new, and with what is available.
dtritter
may i suggest that you raise your points with many here who did
[including my 25 years of hearing her live.
Operatunenity wrote:
>
> What is a Mozart soprano? Eleanor Steber. She could sing the bejesus out of> Fiordiligi, Elvira, and Donna Anna, yet I think her voice would be too small> for Violetta in Traviata or Leonora in Trovatore. The orchestration is too> heavy in Verdi for that kind of voice.
correct about Mozart. add constanze and the countess.
preposterous about violetta, in which she was unsurpassed during the
time she sang it at the met, late forties.
leonora and aida were never in her repertoire, nor was gilda nor oscar,
nor were the "the big heavy duty Verdi soprano roles" .....
> Also in regards> to size of orchestra vesus size of voice, it has as much to do with how the > intruments are orchestrated as well the number of instruments playing,> especially during the fortissimo parts as well as the more transparent and> delicate parts.
how would you rate minnie (fanciulla) or marie (wozzeck). heavy enough
orchestra for you? or perhaps elsa or eva? that wagner sure put on nice
chamber stuff, didn't he. and then there's that small theater item
called "rosenkavalier." compare "knoxville," written for steber, with
some other recording studio attempts by light voices. or "nuits d'ete,"
in which opulence of voice of steber is surpassed only by that of
crespin, one of the largest voices of the century.
i think you'd be better served by going back to the drawing board with
your too facile and largely off-target assessment.
dft
Skip
large voice........
Mozart yes, but don't sell her short, she also sang Wagner.
"Operatunenity" <operat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010219100343...@ng-fy1.aol.com...
Skip
"Steber was a "triple threat" Violetta in
"La Traviata". None of the score's hazards
posed a problem for her. She breezed through
the demands of the first act, became the
consummate lyric of the second act and was
the classic tragic dramatic soprano of the final
act."
If you want more info on Steber, here is a wonderful site, with many photos
of her singing Wagner/Verdi/Strauss/ etc.......
http://members.nbci.com/webber2002/Steber/
"Operatunenity" <operat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010219100343...@ng-fy1.aol.com...
Opaffic
Skip
"Opaffic" <opa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010219114041...@ng-xa1.aol.com...
Paolo@starpower.net Paul. T. Ferraro
Macbeth, maybe Forza).
For the lighter, Luisa, Aida (yes, her lyric approach worked wonderfully),
MILLO.
Also agree on Marton, as I never liked the Slavic sound in any of her
Italian roles save Turandot & Gioconda.
Regards,
DonPaolo
Skip <sk...@nospam.com.nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:nN9k6.1015$uj.1...@typhoon.nyc.rr.com...
Andre Edouard
Paul. T. Ferraro
Why, Mr. Ferraro? Are they in danger?
DMFGAE
Oisk17
(about Steber)>Here was one of her reviews when she sang Violetta........
>
>"Steber was a "triple threat" Violetta in
>"La Traviata". None of the score's hazards
>posed a problem for her. She breezed through
>the demands of the first act, became the
>consummate lyric of the second act and was
>the classic tragic dramatic soprano of the final
>act."
>
>If you want more info on Steber
here is a wonderful site, with many photos
>of her singing Wagner/Verdi/Strauss/ etc.......
>
>http://members.nbci.com/webber2002/Steber/
Thanks Skip! Nice post.
Regards,
Paul
Karen Mercedes
KM
=====
My NEIL SHICOFF Website:
http://www.radix.net/~dalila/shicoff/shicoff.html
My Website:
http://www.radix.net/~dalila/index.html
-----
We're sitting in the opera house;
We're waiting for the curtain to arise
With wonders for our eyes,
A feeling of expectancy,
A certain kind of ecstasy,
Expectancy and ecstasy....Sh's's's.
- Charles Ives
Brian Newhouse
Sam Belich wrote:
> Why do we even begin to assume that the size of the orchestra had anything
> to do with the size of the voice?
I had suggested that certain kinds of orchestral writing that came into fashion
into the latter part of the nineteenth century demands a certain kind of vocal
opulence to match. A well-focused voice that carries well, if it lacks that
kind of opulence, is going to seem a little small in such a context; and the
orchestra will be less able, or at least more unwilling, to cut back enough to
help out the singer. In the leaner orchestral context of earlier music--and
this is _not_ so much a question of the size of the orchestra as of the kind of
musical textures it plays--a smaller voice that is nonetheless well-focused and
produced without strain will _sound_ larger by comparison. Mikes may have
spoiled us into thinking you have to shout to be heard; but you really don't.
That is to say, it will sound larger up to a point. But the point is
determined, not by the size of the orchestra, but by the kind of vocal writing
that demands the power of a truly big voice behind it so that it won't sound
strained. That's the sort of music that would have been written for the truly
big voices of the day--and there always _have_ been a few truly big voices
around.
Mark D. Lew
grndp...@aol.com (GRNDPADAVE) wrote:
> By the way, I think Mozart created the greatest women in all opera. Who needs
> tenors when you have Dorabella, Pamina, Papagena, Constanze, Barbarina, et al.
Barbarina?? The chick who loses the pin?
I'll resist the urge to call her a non-entity, but if I were coming up with
a slate to run against Tosca, Violetta, etc., I would hope to do better
than that.
Papagena isn't exactly fascinating either.
mdl
Matthew B. Tepper
<markdlew-ya0240800...@news.earthlink.net>:
>Papagena isn't exactly fascinating either.
She is to Papageno.
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Brian Newhouse
"Mark D. Lew" wrote:
A bit part, Barbarina--but one with a distinctive enough character in and of itself
for many a beginning light lyric soprano to make a bit of a splash in. Definitely
a "character role" in the Hollywood sense of the word. More than you can say for
your Inezs, Giovannas, et al <grin>... The Verdian equivalent would be those basses
that come in for one or two scenes but can just about steal the show as soon as
they open their mouth (e.g. the Grand Inquisitor & the Friar Fornerly Known as
Charles V in *Don Carlos*, Monterone & Sparafucile in *Rigoletto*)